James Silverton wrote:

> Given the popularity of pizza in Hong Kong, I wonder if the percentage
> of lactose intolerance there is dreamed up for the occasion (like, it is
> suspected a lot of other statistics :-) Of course, it may be the good
> medical method, "I'm lactose intolerant and I know I'm normal so it
> follows.......".
>

I used to have a real problem with dairy products. The odd thing is that
I never guessed that milk was the cause or put two and two together. My
guess is that many folks don't know they have this problem, just like
many folks don't know they have type2 diabetes or high blood pressure.

Milk is not much of a problem these days, it could be that I'm able to
retain a healthy amount of helpful lactobacillus in my guts or simply
because I don't drink milk every day like I did when I was a kid.

Andy wrote:

> SPAM's popularity relates more to its introduction to the Polynesian
> culture of Hawaii. Not Asian culture in the Far East.

SPAM is hugely popular and highly esteemed in Korea, and Korea seems pretty
Far East to me. Here's a reasonably current news article which mentions it:

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/lif...2746-23101022/

(or http://tinyurl.com/da53u4)


Bob

Steve Pope wrote:

> Tangentially, a while back I stocked up on Kraft reduced fat
> Cheddar-Mozzarella-Swiss cheese, which I thought was an odd
> bu edible combination. (Very cheap at Grocery Outlet.) It can't
> be a coincidence that the same combination appears in Canadian
> Cheez-Whiz.

I bought a couple of those as well. They were $1 for a 7 or 8 oz package.
I do kinda wonder about the background of that particular product... It
doesn't seem like the kind of product Kraft would decide to make from scratch.

-sw

On Apr 1, 10:44*pm, dsi1 > wrote:

> because I don't drink milk every day like I did when I was a kid.

Hmm that reminds me, when I was in grade 4 or something in Hong Kong,
they tried to start a milk program. (My school was run by Britons.)
Some of us didn't feel too good with a bottle of that stuff everyday
so we dropped out and the program was eventually abandoned.

On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 20:13:30 GMT, James Silverton wrote:

> Tippi wrote on Wed, 1 Apr 2009 13:03:17 -0700 (PDT):
>
>> On Mar 29, 9:32 pm, Sqwertz > wrote:
>>> Is there really any use or explanation for Cheez Whiz in
>>> Asian cooking?
>>>
>> Who says you have to use it in cooking to have it appear in a
>> grocery store? Perhaps the older folks are buying for their
>> kids, and the younger folks buy it for themselves. It's sold
>> in Hong Kong (where I'm from), the Chinese name is "Jee see
>> Wei Wei" (means something like top cheese).
>
> Given the popularity of pizza in Hong Kong, I wonder if the percentage
> of lactose intolerance there is dreamed up for the occasion (like, it is
> suspected a lot of other statistics :-) Of course, it may be the good
> medical method, "I'm lactose intolerant and I know I'm normal so it
> follows.......".

i don't know this for a fact, but i'd guess the menu pizza hut menu in hong
kong is very different from the one in the states. i know i've heard of
some bizarre pizza topping in japan.

in any case, lactose intolerance in asians is no myth:

Lactose intolerance is the inability to metabolize lactose, a sugar found
in milk and other dairy products, because the required enzyme lactase is
absent in the intestinal system or its availability is lowered. It is
estimated that 75% of adults worldwide show some decrease in lactase
activity during adulthood. The frequency of decreased lactase activity
ranges from nearly 5% in northern Europe, up to 71% for Southern Europe, to
more than 90% in some African and Asian countries.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#Lactose_intolerance_by_group>

there's also a chart with various ethnic groups at the above site. bear in
mind also that the population in hong kong is far from homogenous.

your pal,
blake

> wrote in message
...
On Mar 31, 5:49 am, "Musashi" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Mar 29, 6:32 pm, Sqwertz > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Why is it that two of the biggest Asian grocers in town carry Cheez
> > Whiz? 2 types (regular and light), 2 sizes (large and larger), and
> > one cheaper knock-off brand.
>
> > This has always baffled me. One store has a good 8 sqft of shelf
> > space devoted to Cheez Whiz, and the display always looks recently
> > picked over - as if several dozen people have already bought some
> > that day. It sits there right in between packages of pickled
> > diakon, miso paste, fried tofu, kimchi, and fake meat products.
>
> > My only explanation that it's the only White food in the store. They
> > put it there just for the gringos who are baffled by all the other
> > weird shit on the shelves.
>
> > Is there really any use or explanation for Cheez Whiz in Asian
> > cooking?
>
> > -sw
>
> Seems strange to have Cheez Whiz in an Asian market. Most Asians are
> lactose intolerant.
>
> Eddy
>
> Some are some aren't. Without doubt the rate of lactose intolerance is
> higher than
> in other pats of the world. But if "Most" were intolerant there would be
> no
> market for any dairy
> products in Asian countries and they wouldn't be on supermarket shelves.
> Interstingly, Lactose Intolerance is actually default condition for
> Humans,
> the tolerance
> having developed originally in Central Asia and having spread
> predominantly
> westward since.
>
> Musashi- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted

>From the American Gastroenterologial Association:

>Close to 50 million American adults are lactose intolerant. Certain
>ethnic and racial populations are more widely affected than others. As
>many as 75 percent of all African-American, Jewish, Native American,
>and Mexican adults, and 90 percent of Asian adults are lactose
>intolerant. The condition is least common among people of northern
>European descent.

>I would think the market for dairy products in Asia may be to younger
>people who have not developed lactose intolerance and to non Asians
>living in Asia. I'm Asian and did not develop lactose intolerance
>until about the age of 20. Soy milk is okay, but I do miss a big
>glass of cold milk and a bunch of Oeros!

No need to copy from sources. Hope you didn't miss where I said :
"Without doubt the rate of lactose intolerance is higher than in other parts
of the world."

If you're "Asian" as you say then surely you are aware that the term
encompasses the largest
land area in the world with many many differing peoples and cultures and
very few simple generalizations
cover such a large forced grouping. In Japan, which "westernized" in the
late 1800s milk and dairy products
were not only just introduced but actually industries created for
production. In other words milk has been around
far longer than post WWII. Other nations all differ in their degrees of
exposure and acceptance of dairy products
into their daily lifestyles. Even then, the East Asian nations such as
Japan. Korea, China certainly have the highest
relative intolerance but many central asian, even Mongols have a tradition
of drinking and using milk (usually from
sheep or horses). I agree with you that today, the market for milk does
cater to mostly to the younger people
as the old folks didn't grow up with the habit, and that is evident in the
average height increasing year by year among
young people. On the other hand, we all know the extent of fat in milk and
obesity seems also to be slowly creeping
up on Asian countries. But I don't think there are enough "non-Asians"
living in Asia to justify the scope of available
milk amd dairy products in supermarkets in Asian countries.

blake murphy wrote:

> i don't know this for a fact, but i'd guess the menu pizza hut menu in hong
> kong is very different from the one in the states. i know i've heard of
> some bizarre pizza topping in japan.

Squid and mayo, for example.

Most non-US pizzas kinda have toppings you'd expect: Bulgogi in Korea,
Keema (lamb) and Tandoori Chicken in India. Jerk chicken in Jamaica.

I'm pretty sure every country has a pepperoni option, from what I've seen.

-sw

Sqwertz said...
> blake murphy wrote:
>
> > i don't know this for a fact, but i'd guess the menu pizza hut menu in hong
> > kong is very different from the one in the states. i know i've heard of
> > some bizarre pizza topping in japan.
>
> Squid and mayo, for example.
>
> Most non-US pizzas kinda have toppings you'd expect: Bulgogi in Korea,
> Keema (lamb) and Tandoori Chicken in India. Jerk chicken in Jamaica.
>
> I'm pretty sure every country has a pepperoni option, from what I've seen.
>
> -sw
>


Frankfurter and Sauerkraut in Rimini (Italy)...
Tartiflette in France...


Gerardus

Tippi wrote:
> On Apr 1, 10:44 pm, dsi1 > wrote:
>
>> because I don't drink milk every day like I did when I was a kid.
>
> Hmm that reminds me, when I was in grade 4 or something in Hong Kong,
> they tried to start a milk program. (My school was run by Britons.)
> Some of us didn't feel too good with a bottle of that stuff everyday
> so we dropped out and the program was eventually abandoned.
>

I know what you mean. Drinking stuff that comes out of a funny looking
thing underneath a cow is not something that I would come up with by
myself. It all seems rather barbaric.

My understanding is that the practice may have come from the peoples in
Northern Asia. I guess they did that as a matter of survival since the
area had limited food options. What's our excuse? :-)

My skewed vision of HK comes mostly from movies like Chung Hing Sam Iam
and Stephen Chow flicks like Sik san - gosh those are funny! I like to
contemplate expired cans of pineapple... guess I'm messed up. :-)
Anyway, I hope to visit your town before I die.

"Gerardus" wrote:

>>> i don't know this for a fact, but i'd guess the menu pizza hut menu in
>>> hong kong is very different from the one in the states. i know i've
>>> heard of some bizarre pizza topping in japan.
>>
>> Squid and mayo, for example.
>>
>> Most non-US pizzas kinda have toppings you'd expect: Bulgogi in Korea,
>> Keema (lamb) and Tandoori Chicken in India. Jerk chicken in Jamaica.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure every country has a pepperoni option, from what I've
>> seen.
>>
>
> Frankfurter and Sauerkraut in Rimini (Italy)...

That's one I never saw during my stays there (three months at a time, with
trips in 1997, 1998, and 1999). Rimini isn't all that close to the northern
border, but they do get lots of Eastern European tourists, so maybe that
pizza was intended to cater to them. The most odd pizzas I saw there had
arugula on them (put on after cooking) or had been cooked with an egg on
top.

Bob

On Mar 30, 11:45*am, Tracy > wrote:
> George wrote:
> > Sqwertz wrote:
> >> Why is it that two of the biggest Asian grocers in town carry Cheez
> >> Whiz? *2 types (regular and light), 2 sizes (large and larger), and
> >> one cheaper knock-off brand.
>
> >> This has always baffled me. *One store has a good 8 sqft of shelf
> >> space devoted to Cheez Whiz, and the display always looks recently
> >> picked over - as if several dozen people have already bought some
> >> that day. *It sits there right in between packages of pickled
> >> diakon, miso paste, fried tofu, kimchi, and fake meat products.
>
> >> My only explanation that it's the only White food in the store. They
> >> put it there just for the gringos who are baffled by all the other
> >> weird shit on the shelves.
>
> >> Is there really any use or explanation for Cheez Whiz in Asian
> >> cooking?
>
> >> -sw
>
> > I have never seen that in any of the Asian markets I patronize. I wonder
> > if it is something localized?
>
> The Asian grocery I visit (in Boston near the Boston University campus)
> has a large "American foods" section - about an aisle's worth maybe. I
> never noticed Cheez Whiz but I also never really browse that aisle since
> I get most of my more mainstream ingredients at the regular grocery store..
>
> The store is currently in the process of a remodel and everything is now
> organized by region. Chinese has one aisle, Thai another, Japanese, and
> so on. I like it much better this way.
>
> The store is still a bit of a disaster. They cut out a ton of stuff and
> it looks like they are adding a food court. There is already a very
> large food court adjacent to the store.
>
> Tracy

Are you talking about 88? I would love to have one of those in my
area, but at least we have our choice of 4 or 5 Asian groceries (one
specifically Japanese-Korean) just in my town.

maxine in ri

On Mar 31, 10:48*pm, Omelet > wrote:
> In article >,
> *Serene Vannoy > wrote:
>
> > "But here's a handy hint: *if your fabulous theory for ending war and
> > all other human conflict will not survive an online argument with
> > humourless feminists who are not afraid to throw rape around as an
> > example, your theory needs work." -- Aqua, alt.polyamory
>
> Cute quote! *I've never attended that list. :-)

It sounds like a corallery to Godwin's Law.<G>.
And that's _not_ funny!

;-)
maxine in ri

maxine > wrote:

> Are you talking about 88? I would love to have one of those in my
> area, but at least we have our choice of 4 or 5 Asian groceries (one
> specifically Japanese-Korean) just in my town.

88? That's kinda funny consider the premier national Asian grocer
is 99 Ranch 99 (and that one of their mottos is that "100 Would Be
Too Perfect").

<shrug>

-sw

Sqwertz > wrote:

> Cheez Whiz as known to the United States:
>
> "Milk And Part-Skim Milk, Water, Whey, Milkfat, Sodium Phosphate,
> Contains Less Than 2% Of Dried Corn Syrup, Salt, Worcestershire
> Sauce (Vinegar, Water, Molasses, Corn Syrup, Salt, Sugar, Caramel
> Color, Dried Garlic, Spice, Anchovies, Tamarind, Natural
> Preservative, Annatto (Color), Oleoresin Paprika, Enzymes"

I didn't even really look at those ingredients. But: OVER 2% of
sodium phosphate (more than the amount of salt) is tremendous for
any processed food product. I believe it's unheard of in any food
product in amounts greater than 2% - outside of Cheez Whiz, that is.

We could make it a food scavenger hunt: Find any food with greater
than 2% phosphates.

-sw

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:04:47 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>
>> i don't know this for a fact, but i'd guess the menu pizza hut menu in hong
>> kong is very different from the one in the states. i know i've heard of
>> some bizarre pizza topping in japan.
>
> Squid and mayo, for example.
>
> Most non-US pizzas kinda have toppings you'd expect: Bulgogi in Korea,
> Keema (lamb) and Tandoori Chicken in India. Jerk chicken in Jamaica.
>
> I'm pretty sure every country has a pepperoni option, from what I've seen.
>
> -sw

yep, i was thinking of whatnot and mayo.

given the elegance of classical japanese cooking, it's weird to see what
the do in adapting western dishes.

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 16:10:02 -0700 (PDT), maxine wrote:

> On Mar 31, 10:48*pm, Omelet > wrote:
>> In article >,
>> *Serene Vannoy > wrote:
>>
>>> "But here's a handy hint: *if your fabulous theory for ending war and
>>> all other human conflict will not survive an online argument with
>>> humourless feminists who are not afraid to throw rape around as an
>>> example, your theory needs work." -- Aqua, alt.polyamory
>>
>> Cute quote! *I've never attended that list. :-)
>
> It sounds like a corallery to Godwin's Law.<G>.
> And that's _not_ funny!
>
> ;-)
> maxine in ri

Q: how many feminists does it take to change a light bulb?

A: that's not funny!

your pal,
blake

On Apr 3, 10:06*am, blake murphy > wrote:

> given the elegance of classical japanese cooking, it's weird to see what
> the do in adapting western dishes.
>
actually the Japanese is very good at taking something foreign and
making it entirely their own. E.g. eating raw fish and growing trees
in small pots came from China and became sashimi and bonsai
respectively, and tempura is derived from Portuguese cuisine.

Tippi wrote on Fri, 3 Apr 2009 07:16:08 -0700 (PDT):

>> given the elegance of classical japanese cooking, it's weird
>> to see what the do in adapting western dishes.
>>

>actually the Japanese is very good at taking something foreign and
making it entirely their own.

The process continues; did you notice the recent mention of the popular
Chikin Katsu that has appeared in food courts in US malls? Also, Panko
breadcrumbs (from the Portoguese word for bread) are widely sold in the
US for good reasons.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

maxine wrote:
> On Mar 30, 11:45 am, Tracy > wrote:
>> George wrote:
>>> Sqwertz wrote:
>>>> Why is it that two of the biggest Asian grocers in town carry Cheez
>>>> Whiz? 2 types (regular and light), 2 sizes (large and larger), and
>>>> one cheaper knock-off brand.
>>>> This has always baffled me. One store has a good 8 sqft of shelf
>>>> space devoted to Cheez Whiz, and the display always looks recently
>>>> picked over - as if several dozen people have already bought some
>>>> that day. It sits there right in between packages of pickled
>>>> diakon, miso paste, fried tofu, kimchi, and fake meat products.
>>>> My only explanation that it's the only White food in the store. They
>>>> put it there just for the gringos who are baffled by all the other
>>>> weird shit on the shelves.
>>>> Is there really any use or explanation for Cheez Whiz in Asian
>>>> cooking?
>>>> -sw
>>> I have never seen that in any of the Asian markets I patronize. I wonder
>>> if it is something localized?
>> The Asian grocery I visit (in Boston near the Boston University campus)
>> has a large "American foods" section - about an aisle's worth maybe. I
>> never noticed Cheez Whiz but I also never really browse that aisle since
>> I get most of my more mainstream ingredients at the regular grocery store.
>>
>> The store is currently in the process of a remodel and everything is now
>> organized by region. Chinese has one aisle, Thai another, Japanese, and
>> so on. I like it much better this way.
>>
>> The store is still a bit of a disaster. They cut out a ton of stuff and
>> it looks like they are adding a food court. There is already a very
>> large food court adjacent to the store.
>>
>> Tracy
>
> Are you talking about 88? I would love to have one of those in my
> area, but at least we have our choice of 4 or 5 Asian groceries (one
> specifically Japanese-Korean) just in my town.
>
> maxine in ri

It used to be Super 88--and the last time I went there, perhaps 3
weeks ago, the sign and labels still said that. I believe,
however, it is actually a C-Mart now (IIRC).

--
Jean B.

"James Silverton" > wrote in message
news
> Tippi wrote on Fri, 3 Apr 2009 07:16:08 -0700 (PDT):
>
>>> given the elegance of classical japanese cooking, it's weird
>>> to see what the do in adapting western dishes.
>>>
>
>>actually the Japanese is very good at taking something foreign and
> making it entirely their own.
>
> The process continues; did you notice the recent mention of the popular
> Chikin Katsu that has appeared in food courts in US malls? Also, Panko
> breadcrumbs (from the Portoguese word for bread) are widely sold in the US
> for good reasons.
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"Geneva - A Japanese cheese has won a rare prize in an international
mountain cheese
competition dominated by Swiss, Italian and French products."

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_i...25264 793S326

Musashi

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 07:16:08 -0700 (PDT), Tippi wrote:

> On Apr 3, 10:06*am, blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> given the elegance of classical japanese cooking, it's weird to see what
>> the do in adapting western dishes.
>>
> actually the Japanese is very good at taking something foreign and
> making it entirely their own. E.g. eating raw fish and growing trees
> in small pots came from China and became sashimi and bonsai
> respectively, and tempura is derived from Portuguese cuisine.

yes, but they usually put their own unique spin on it. i'm not knocking
it, believe me.

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 20:11:05 -0400, Musashi wrote:

> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
> news
>> Tippi wrote on Fri, 3 Apr 2009 07:16:08 -0700 (PDT):
>>
>>>> given the elegance of classical japanese cooking, it's weird
>>>> to see what the do in adapting western dishes.
>>>>
>>
>>>actually the Japanese is very good at taking something foreign and
>> making it entirely their own.
>>
>> The process continues; did you notice the recent mention of the popular
>> Chikin Katsu that has appeared in food courts in US malls? Also, Panko
>> breadcrumbs (from the Portoguese word for bread) are widely sold in the US
>> for good reasons.
>>
>> --
>>
>> James Silverton
>
> "Geneva - A Japanese cheese has won a rare prize in an international
> mountain cheese
> competition dominated by Swiss, Italian and French products."
>
> http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_i...25264 793S326
>
> Musashi

that must have, um, cheesed off the french and italians.

your pal,
blake

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> Why is it that two of the biggest Asian grocers in town carry Cheez
> Whiz? 2 types (regular and light), 2 sizes (large and larger), and
> one cheaper knock-off brand.
>
> This has always baffled me. One store has a good 8 sqft of shelf
> space devoted to Cheez Whiz, and the display always looks recently
> picked over - as if several dozen people have already bought some
> that day. It sits there right in between packages of pickled
> diakon, miso paste, fried tofu, kimchi, and fake meat products.
>
> My only explanation that it's the only White food in the store. They
> put it there just for the gringos who are baffled by all the other
> weird shit on the shelves.
>
> Is there really any use or explanation for Cheez Whiz in Asian
> cooking?
>
> -sw
>
I have never seen such a thing in my Asian market. It blows my mind.
Emmy...recipe lurker

--
http://soonerblue.bloghi.com/

"Tippi" > wrote in message
...
On Apr 3, 10:06 am, blake murphy > wrote:

> given the elegance of classical japanese cooking, it's weird to see what
> the do in adapting western dishes.
>
>actually the Japanese is very good at taking something foreign and
>making it entirely their own. E.g. eating raw fish and growing trees
>in small pots came from China and became sashimi and bonsai
>respectively, and tempura is derived from Portuguese cuisine.

Tippi,

I am not of the opinion that eating "raw fish" came from China at all.
Having traced the roots of "sushi" to the fermented fish and rice dishes
of southeast asia and the very oldest forms of sushi (narezushi) in Japan,
it seems that this old form did pass through China but essentially
dissappeared
by the 1800s. The use of completely raw fish in Japan in the 1800s together
with vinegared rice became Edomae Zushi, what the whole world now calls
"sushi".
The practice of eating raw fish seems alomst distinctivly Japanese, perhaps
because
of being surrounded entirely by the sea. I've found some eating of raw fish
in the
coastal areas of Korea as well. Yet, I find no instances of eating raw fish
in Chinese
cities well reknowned for their seafood like Shanghai and Hongkong. Due to
the huge
land mass much of China's consumed fish are freshwater species, and
warm-water
freshwater fish simply don't lend themselves to eating raw without a risk of
parasites.
If you have any sources that suggest that raw fish consumption has any
origins in
China, I'd appreciate you posting the link so I can study it.

Regards
Musashi

On Apr 5, 11:34*am, "Musashi" > wrote:
> Yet, I find no instances of eating raw fish in Chinese
> cities well reknowned for their seafood like Shanghai and Hongkong.

Musashi, I have read that this is one of the things that China has
influenced Japan, specifically during the Tang Dynasty (600 - 900
A.D.). Thousands of years ago, raw fish was widely eaten in China,
whether plain or vinergared. Nowadays you would rarely find it in the
more industrialized cities, like Hong Kong, because of "sanitary
concerns". My dad has talked about having it in his youth, in various
places in the Canton province - this would be 60+ years ago.

On Apr 5, 11:34*am, "Musashi" > wrote:
> I'd appreciate you posting the link so I can study it.

As regards to references, it's mostly stuff (mostly Chinese) I've read
through the years, there is not a single source. Here is one English
reference I found

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuai_(dish)

And I'm surprised to find that Mongolians also eat it

http://www.kepu.net.cn/english/natio...312050040.html

Tippi wrote on Tue, 7 Apr 2009 12:33:09 -0700 (PDT):

> On Apr 5, 11:34 am, "Musashi" > wrote:
>> I'd appreciate you posting the link so I can study it.

> As regards to references, it's mostly stuff (mostly Chinese)
> I've read through the years, there is not a single source.
> Here is one English reference I found

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuai_(dish)

> And I'm surprised to find that Mongolians also eat it

Don't Mongolians also drink Koumiss, fermented horse milk? However, I
suppose if the sugar fermented is lactose, fermenting might help for
lactose intolerance.
--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Tippi wrote:
>
> On Apr 5, 11:34 am, "Musashi" > wrote:
> > Yet, I find no instances of eating raw fish in Chinese
> > cities well reknowned for their seafood like Shanghai and Hongkong.
>
> Musashi, I have read that this is one of the things that China has
> influenced Japan, specifically during the Tang Dynasty (600 - 900
> A.D.). Thousands of years ago, raw fish was widely eaten in China,
> whether plain or vinergared. Nowadays you would rarely find it in the
> more industrialized cities, like Hong Kong, because of "sanitary
> concerns". My dad has talked about having it in his youth, in various
> places in the Canton province - this would be 60+ years ago.

I was watching some food program -- Martin Yan's show, I think
-- in which it was mentioned that Chinese seldom eat raw vegetables.
This is because of natural fertilizers which are widely used.

I can come just imagine some Chinese returning home from their
trip to America.

"And get this, they really do eat vegetables raw! That's
not just some crazy made-up story! They call it salad.
And just to make sure they include something that'll make
you sick, they usually include several different types
of raw vegetables in one salad!"

"Are you sure they didn't boil them, and then cool them
down to room temperature?"

"I observed the process. The vegetables in salad are
definitely raw. They do boil vegetables in soup and stews,
but not in salad."

"Did you try any of the salad?"

"I almost did, but it just didn't seem worth the risk.
Eating the beef was as far as I was ready to go. The beef
was quite good, but I wouldn't do it again."

"Tippi" > wrote in message
...
On Apr 5, 11:34 am, "Musashi" > wrote:
> Yet, I find no instances of eating raw fish in Chinese
> cities well reknowned for their seafood like Shanghai and Hongkong.

Musashi, I have read that this is one of the things that China has
influenced Japan, specifically during the Tang Dynasty (600 - 900
A.D.). Thousands of years ago, raw fish was widely eaten in China,
whether plain or vinergared. Nowadays you would rarely find it in the
more industrialized cities, like Hong Kong, because of "sanitary
concerns". My dad has talked about having it in his youth, in various
places in the Canton province - this would be 60+ years ago.

Thanks Tippi. To be honest I was hoping for some
source that I could refer to, read and investigate. As I mentioned, that
fermented rice and fish dishes did
pass from Southeast Asia through southern parts of China, but this is the
first I am ever hearing of "raw fish" being eaten. I will see if I can dig
up some information on the foods eaten in China that far back on my own.
Of course today Sushi and Sashimi are quite popular with the Chinese in Hong
Kong and Shanghai as a "Japanese dish".

Regards
Musashi

"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
> Tippi wrote:
>>
>> On Apr 5, 11:34 am, "Musashi" > wrote:
>> > Yet, I find no instances of eating raw fish in Chinese
>> > cities well reknowned for their seafood like Shanghai and Hongkong.
>>
>> Musashi, I have read that this is one of the things that China has
>> influenced Japan, specifically during the Tang Dynasty (600 - 900
>> A.D.). Thousands of years ago, raw fish was widely eaten in China,
>> whether plain or vinergared. Nowadays you would rarely find it in the
>> more industrialized cities, like Hong Kong, because of "sanitary
>> concerns". My dad has talked about having it in his youth, in various
>> places in the Canton province - this would be 60+ years ago.
>
> I was watching some food program -- Martin Yan's show, I think
> -- in which it was mentioned that Chinese seldom eat raw vegetables.
> This is because of natural fertilizers which are widely used.
>
> I can come just imagine some Chinese returning home from their
> trip to America.
>
> "And get this, they really do eat vegetables raw! That's
> not just some crazy made-up story! They call it salad.
> And just to make sure they include something that'll make
> you sick, they usually include several different types
> of raw vegetables in one salad!"
>
> "Are you sure they didn't boil them, and then cool them
> down to room temperature?"
>
> "I observed the process. The vegetables in salad are
> definitely raw. They do boil vegetables in soup and stews,
> but not in salad."
>
> "Did you try any of the salad?"
>
> "I almost did, but it just didn't seem worth the risk.
> Eating the beef was as far as I was ready to go. The beef
> was quite good, but I wouldn't do it again."

Ha-ha. True, in most of east Asia at least, in the old days the lack of a
sewage system
was handled by all the human feces being used as agricultural fertilizer.
Way out in the
boondocks of many countries you may still see it practiced.

Musashi

"Tippi" > wrote in message
...
On Apr 5, 11:34 am, "Musashi" > wrote:
> I'd appreciate you posting the link so I can study it.

As regards to references, it's mostly stuff (mostly Chinese) I've read
through the years, there is not a single source. Here is one English
reference I found

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuai_(dish)

And I'm surprised to find that Mongolians also eat it

http://www.kepu.net.cn/english/natio...312050040.html

Thanks very much.
I will go through these links.

Regards
Musashi

"Musashi" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tippi" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Apr 5, 11:34 am, "Musashi" > wrote:
>> I'd appreciate you posting the link so I can study it.
>
> As regards to references, it's mostly stuff (mostly Chinese) I've read
> through the years, there is not a single source. Here is one English
> reference I found
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuai_(dish)
>
> And I'm surprised to find that Mongolians also eat it
>
> http://www.kepu.net.cn/english/natio...312050040.html
>
> Thanks very much.
> I will go through these links.
>
> Regards
> Musashi
>

Well I don't know if I'll make further headway this weekend but thanks to
your
replies I have managed to find a link between the ancient Chinese "Kuai"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuai_(dish) and
and the Japanese "Namasu" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namasu
based on the same kanji character of $Bg:!#(B

There is no doubt that Namasu came from China in the 700-800 AD period.
However it appears to be different from what we know as Sashimi. And
certainly it has a
completely different evolutionary path in Japanese cuisine.

Regards
Musashi

On Apr 9, 1:22*pm, "Musashi" > wrote:

> There is no doubt that Namasu came from China in the 700-800 AD period.
> However it appears to be different from what we know as Sashimi. And
> certainly it has a
> completely different evolutionary path in Japanese cuisine.

Very interesting indeed. Hope you are able to work out the details.

It came to me later that the fish that I've heard of that are eaten
raw in China are FRESHWATER fish, which is totally different from raw
fish in Japan.

In article >, st
says...
> I'm pretty sure every country has a pepperoni option, from what I've seen.
>
I bet it is pork free pepperoni in muslim countries and those areas with
large Jewish communities though.

And yes, while it should be pork it can be made with beef and poultry.
--
Carl Robson
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In article >, st
says...
> I'm pretty sure every country has a pepperoni option, from what I've seen.
>
In Berlin, SWMBO ordered a Pepperoni pizza.
Got no meat products at all, but it was made with mild long thin pickled
chilli peppers, which seems common in continental mainland europe.
--
Carl Robson
Get cashback on your purchases
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Elder wrote on Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:24:59 +0100:

> In article >,
> st says...
>> I'm pretty sure every country has a pepperoni option, from
>> what I've seen.
>>
> I bet it is pork free pepperoni in muslim countries and those
> areas with large Jewish communities though.

I'm not usually very enthusiastic about vegetarian meat alternatives but
fat-free soy pepperoni is actually quite acceptable on pizza or as a
ragu ingredient. I guess it means that a large part of pepperoni's taste
comes from the spices rather than the meat.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Apr 11, 9:45*am, "James Silverton" >
wrote:
> *Elder *wrote *on Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:24:59 +0100:
>
> > In article >,
> > says...
> >> I'm pretty sure every country has a pepperoni option, from
> >> what I've seen.
>
> > I bet it is pork free pepperoni in muslim countries and those
> > areas with large Jewish communities though.
>
> I'm not usually very enthusiastic about vegetarian meat alternatives but
> fat-free soy pepperoni is actually quite acceptable on pizza or as a
> ragu ingredient. I guess it means that a large part of pepperoni's taste
> comes from the spices rather than the meat.

If there were such a thing as Kosher pepperoni, Jewish dietary rules
would forbid putting it on a pizza with cheese.
>
> --
>
> James Silverton

--Bryan
The album, "School of the Americas" is now available online.
Go to: http://www.thebonobos.com/
Click on the album cover to purchase. This is a fold out case with a
lyrics booklet for only $9.99. That's right folks, only $9.99.

On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:27:49 +0100, Elder
> wrote:

> In article >, st
> says...
> > I'm pretty sure every country has a pepperoni option, from what I've seen.
> >
> In Berlin, SWMBO ordered a Pepperoni pizza.
> Got no meat products at all, but it was made with mild long thin pickled
> chilli peppers, which seems common in continental mainland europe.


Although in the USA, "pepperoni" is a sort of spicy sausage, in
Italian the word means bell pepper or chili pepper.

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Ken wrote on Sat, 11 Apr 2009 09:34:18 -0700:

>> In article >,
>> st says...
> >> I'm pretty sure every country has a pepperoni option, from
> >> what I've seen.
> >>
>> In Berlin, SWMBO ordered a Pepperoni pizza.
>> Got no meat products at all, but it was made with mild long
>> thin pickled chilli peppers, which seems common in
>> continental mainland europe.

> Although in the USA, "pepperoni" is a sort of spicy sausage,
> in Italian the word means bell pepper or chili pepper.

I guess that is true and "pepperoni" should be "pepperoni sausage" but
in US usage sausage is implied.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 16:52:13 GMT, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

> Ken wrote on Sat, 11 Apr 2009 09:34:18 -0700:
>
> >> In article >,
> >> st says...
> > >> I'm pretty sure every country has a pepperoni option, from
> > >> what I've seen.
> > >>
> >> In Berlin, SWMBO ordered a Pepperoni pizza.
> >> Got no meat products at all, but it was made with mild long
> >> thin pickled chilli peppers, which seems common in
> >> continental mainland europe.
>
> > Although in the USA, "pepperoni" is a sort of spicy sausage,
> > in Italian the word means bell pepper or chili pepper.
>
> I guess that is true and "pepperoni" should be "pepperoni sausage" but
> in US usage sausage is implied.


Yes, as I said, in the US, "sausage" is more than just "implied," it
effectively means that particular kind of sausage. My point was that
if you ask for "pepperoni" in Italy (and apparently in Berlin, and
likely in other parts of Europe too), you get bell or chili pepper.

It's just one example of an Italian word commonly misused in the US.
Another common example is "latte" used to mean a particular kind of
coffee. In Italian, the word "latte" means "milk."

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup