On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:33:48 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote:

>In article >,
> Omelet > wrote:
>
>
>> I've cut to 1 meal per day at present so am consuming under 600 calories
>> per day. It's sped up my weight loss nicely. I was tired of being
>> stalled out.
>
>My oldest son, the one who already eats so much, announced recently that
>he's going on a diet. 4,000 calories a day! I don't know how many
>pounds he's trying to gain.

Maybe he's in training to be a sumo wrestler!


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:54:41 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>Baby bunnies? Argh! ;-)
>I love your description...

This is grossing me out. I'm killing the thread.

--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else
to hold them.

sf wrote:

> This is grossing me out. I'm killing the thread.

Okay, we won't address you personally in this thread anymore.

Bob

In article >,
Kathleen > wrote:

> Mark Thorson wrote:
> > Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> >
> >>I have never, nor would I ever unless faced with starvation, eat dog.
> >
> >
> > I sure would. It's on my list of stuff I've got
> > to eat before I die. Ahead of ortolan, behind whale.
> >
> > I finally killed the rabbit in my garage today!
> > I thought it was gone, because I hadn't seen it
> > for several weeks. I got some ultrasonic critter
> > repeller devices which I thought were frauds but
> > this web site convinced me they might be worth
> > trying.
> >
> > http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/antwars.htm
> >
> > Did not work for rats and gophers. Seemed to
> > work on the rabbit until last week, when I noticed
> > it was back. Put a trap in the hole-in-the-wall
> > it was using to get in. The trap was tripped twice
> > with no result. Three's the charm. Big guy, for
> > a wild rabbit. Normally, they're small. This one
> > I estimate at three pounds. I tossed it where
> > scavengers routinely pick up dead bodies. They'll
> > probably be a happy coyote tonight.
>
> Cooper, our JRT, is quite adept at keeping our yard free of bunnies.
> It's amazing to see a 14 pound lap dog run down and kill a full grown
> rabbit.
>
> And it is a testament to the preventative powers of the ivermectin in
> Heartgard that none of the three dogs have required treatment for
> tapeworms, in spite of ingesting Cooper's prey.
>
> At least Cooper's depredation of the adult population have prevented any
> nests this year. That's REALLY upsetting. If you manage to avoid
> hitting them with the lawn mower, you're minding your own business,
> washing the dishes and looking out the window, and you see the dogs out
> there, scarfing something down like single-serving snack packs
> (seriously, who can stop at one?), and it's not until one of them flips
> something into the air and catches it it to swallow whole that you
> realize what they've got...

Baby bunnies? Argh! ;-)
I love your description...
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

In article >,
Kathleen > wrote:

> George Shirley wrote:
>
> > Kathleen wrote:
> >
> >> Mark Thorson wrote:
> >>
> >>> Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I have never, nor would I ever unless faced with starvation, eat dog.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I sure would. It's on my list of stuff I've got
> >>> to eat before I die. Ahead of ortolan, behind whale.
> >>>
> >>> I finally killed the rabbit in my garage today!
> >>> I thought it was gone, because I hadn't seen it
> >>> for several weeks. I got some ultrasonic critter
> >>> repeller devices which I thought were frauds but
> >>> this web site convinced me they might be worth
> >>> trying.
> >>>
> >>> http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/antwars.htm
> >>>
> >>> Did not work for rats and gophers. Seemed to
> >>> work on the rabbit until last week, when I noticed
> >>> it was back. Put a trap in the hole-in-the-wall
> >>> it was using to get in. The trap was tripped twice
> >>> with no result. Three's the charm. Big guy, for
> >>> a wild rabbit. Normally, they're small. This one
> >>> I estimate at three pounds. I tossed it where
> >>> scavengers routinely pick up dead bodies. They'll
> >>> probably be a happy coyote tonight.
> >>
> >>
> >> Cooper, our JRT, is quite adept at keeping our yard free of bunnies.
> >> It's amazing to see a 14 pound lap dog run down and kill a full grown
> >> rabbit.
> >>
> >> And it is a testament to the preventative powers of the ivermectin in
> >> Heartgard that none of the three dogs have required treatment for
> >> tapeworms, in spite of ingesting Cooper's prey.
> >>
> >> At least Cooper's depredation of the adult population have prevented
> >> any nests this year. That's REALLY upsetting. If you manage to avoid
> >> hitting them with the lawn mower, you're minding your own business,
> >> washing the dishes and looking out the window, and you see the dogs
> >> out there, scarfing something down like single-serving snack packs
> >> (seriously, who can stop at one?), and it's not until one of them
> >> flips something into the air and catches it it to swallow whole that
> >> you realize what they've got...
> >>
> > Praise them. They're doing what they were bred for. My rat terriers have
> > always been good at catching rats, squirrels, and the odd rabbit that
> > used to show up before we put up the board fence. None of them cared to
> > eat them and always brought them to me. I generally would cook them up
> > some squirrel or rabbit and they would then eat it. More discerning
> > palates than those rough-neck JRT's I guess.
>
> I don't praise him, but I don't reprimand him, either. He does get to
> eat what he kills, though. And the kids egg him on, holding him to look
> out the back door, whispering... "Cooooper... What IS that? See it?
> I think it's a buuuunny... Reeeady? GET 'EM!"
>
> The border collies are allowed to tug-o-war over whatever he doesn't
> finish but I don't think either of them has ever initiated a kill. I
> have, however, seen Zane cooperate with Cooper during a hunt, by cutting
> ahead of a rabbit heading for a gap in the fence. It was probably just
> his herding instinct kicking in but it allowed Cooper to nail the bunny,
> which he was willing to share.
>
> Zane was neutered at 11 months due to an undescended testicle but he
> still got a piece of tail.

You really should be a professional writer Kathleen. ;-)
I love your dog posts!
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

George Shirley wrote:
>
> One thing I don't eat is herring in any manner, never did like the
> stuff. My Dutch friends loved raw herring with onion. Coming from the
> Gulf Coast where fish are often wormy I never eat raw fish of any sort.
> Of course I don't eat raw meat of any kind either. If were meant to eat
> raw meat we wouldn't have learned to use fire IMHO.



I won't eat raw fish or raw meat, either, after some
microbiology courses.

The first time I went to Sweden with DH on business, our
partner decided
I should be exposed to "real" Swedish food.

They served a large platter of "mixed" herring as an appetizer:
Pickled herring in wine with onion, in mustard, in tomato sauce,
in sour cream, and gravalax salmon. I was quite unhappy
because I
thought it would be awful, but I actually liked most of it
quite a bit.

It was followed by roast moose tenderloin with a wine
reduction sauce, the
ever-present boiled potatoes with parsley, and fresh
asparagus. The moose
was REALLY good. Dessert was various cheeses and fruit.

gloria p

Puester wrote:
> George Shirley wrote:
>>
>> One thing I don't eat is herring in any manner, never did like the
>> stuff. My Dutch friends loved raw herring with onion. Coming from the
>> Gulf Coast where fish are often wormy I never eat raw fish of any
>> sort. Of course I don't eat raw meat of any kind either. If were meant
>> to eat raw meat we wouldn't have learned to use fire IMHO.
>
>
>
> I won't eat raw fish or raw meat, either, after some microbiology courses.
>
> The first time I went to Sweden with DH on business, our partner decided
> I should be exposed to "real" Swedish food.
>
> They served a large platter of "mixed" herring as an appetizer:
> Pickled herring in wine with onion, in mustard, in tomato sauce,
> in sour cream, and gravalax salmon. I was quite unhappy because I
> thought it would be awful, but I actually liked most of it quite a bit.
>
> It was followed by roast moose tenderloin with a wine reduction sauce, the
> ever-present boiled potatoes with parsley, and fresh asparagus. The moose
> was REALLY good. Dessert was various cheeses and fruit.
>
> gloria p

I fished with friends on the Columbia River in Washington State. They
used pickled herring as bait and sprayed the bait with WD40 so it would
leave a scent trail. One of them decided to try a little herring and
spent the rest of the fishing trip "chumming" for sturgeon over the rail
of the boat.

Cold water fish aren't as susceptible to worms as warm water fish but I
would rather not take a chance. After you cook the fish thoroughly you
can't tell the worms from the rest of the fish and that's okay by me.

I've never lived more than 50 miles from salt water in my seventy years
on this earth and don't ever want to. I can drive ten miles from our
home and be standing on the river bank fishing in tidal waters and then
another fifty miles and be dipping my tootsies in the Golfo de Mexico.
That's living. You can have all those lakes and reservoirs, give me salt
water.

Kathleen wrote:

>
> The border collies are allowed to tug-o-war over whatever he doesn't
> finish but I don't think either of them has ever initiated a kill.

My Blue (border collie) loves the chase. She barks to warn them she is near
though) One day, she took off after a rabbit and after a while, the
rabbit ran up a small hill. Blue stood watching. The rabbit tripped and
rolled down in front of Blue's nose. Blue just watched until it got up and
starting running, then resumed the chase.

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:37:28 -0500, George Shirley wrote:

> zxcvbob wrote:
>> In my mind I hear Elmer Fudd singing this line over and over, to the
>> tune of <i>Flight of the Valkyries</i>. :-) (reminiscent of something
>> in "Rabbit of Seville")
>>
>> Bob
>>
> It's from a Bugs Bunny movie, Bugs is the Valkyrie and Elmer is chasing
> him. Lots of thunder and lightning, etc. I have the tape and watch it
> frequently just for that segment. DW gets PO'ed when I walk around the
> house singing, "Kill the Wabbit."

"What's Opera, Doc?'

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJAXJWm8G4A>

your pal,
mel

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:17:11 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:

> George Shirley wrote:
>> zxcvbob wrote:
>>> In my mind I hear Elmer Fudd singing this line over and over, to the
>>> tune of <i>Flight of the Valkyries</i>. :-) (reminiscent of
>>> something in "Rabbit of Seville")
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>> It's from a Bugs Bunny movie, Bugs is the Valkyrie and Elmer is chasing
>> him. Lots of thunder and lightning, etc. I have the tape and watch it
>> frequently just for that segment. DW gets PO'ed when I walk around the
>> house singing, "Kill the Wabbit."
>
> Found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDwDo_hTs2Q
>
> Bob

damn it, bob, you're too quick for me.

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 15:18:20 -0500, George Shirley wrote:

> Kathleen wrote:
>>
>> Cooper, our JRT, is quite adept at keeping our yard free of bunnies.
>> It's amazing to see a 14 pound lap dog run down and kill a full grown
>> rabbit.
>>
>> And it is a testament to the preventative powers of the ivermectin in
>> Heartgard that none of the three dogs have required treatment for
>> tapeworms, in spite of ingesting Cooper's prey.
>>
>> At least Cooper's depredation of the adult population have prevented any
>> nests this year. That's REALLY upsetting. If you manage to avoid
>> hitting them with the lawn mower, you're minding your own business,
>> washing the dishes and looking out the window, and you see the dogs out
>> there, scarfing something down like single-serving snack packs
>> (seriously, who can stop at one?), and it's not until one of them flips
>> something into the air and catches it it to swallow whole that you
>> realize what they've got...
>>
> Praise them. They're doing what they were bred for. My rat terriers have
> always been good at catching rats, squirrels, and the odd rabbit that
> used to show up before we put up the board fence. None of them cared to
> eat them and always brought them to me. I generally would cook them up
> some squirrel or rabbit and they would then eat it. More discerning
> palates than those rough-neck JRT's I guess.

<snort>

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 08:33:06 -0700 (PDT), Bobo Bonobo® wrote:

> On Apr 2, 10:21*am, "cybercat" > wrote:
>> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
>>
>> .. .> On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 19:45:49 -0700 (PDT), Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
>>
>>>> On Apr 1, 8:35 pm, (Fred/Libby Barclay) wrote:
>>>>> I'm so glad to know this was a joke! It's been bothering me all day as
>>>>> a dog lover.
>>
>>>> I'm not a dog person, but I bear them no ill will.
>>
>>> <hysterical laughter>
>>
>>> this post is the real joke, right?
>
> You're still to stupid to understand the concept of collateral damage.
>

i understand the concept very well. i think you're stupid to think it was
a good idea, that it somehow embodied 'justice.'

> I bear no ill will toward earthworms either, but I bet I've killed
> dozens if not hundreds in the process of putting in my garden.
> Chopped 'em right in half with a shovel.
>>
>> I still remember how proud of himself he was when he posted about poisoning
>> the dog.
>
> Did I ever say that I actually DID it? I don't think I ever said
> that. No, I wouldn't have said that.
> Was I proud of myself for thinking up the plan? Yes.
>

yes, it's brilliant in a jack-off twelve-year-old way.

blake

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:33:48 -0700, Dan Abel wrote:

> In article >,
> Omelet > wrote:
>
>> I've cut to 1 meal per day at present so am consuming under 600 calories
>> per day. It's sped up my weight loss nicely. I was tired of being
>> stalled out.
>
> My oldest son, the one who already eats so much, announced recently that
> he's going on a diet. 4,000 calories a day! I don't know how many
> pounds he's trying to gain.

it's almost as hard to put on weight deliberately as it is to lose it. is
he wearing ankle and wrist weights?

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:17:24 GMT, blake murphy
> wrote:

>On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:33:48 -0700, Dan Abel wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> Omelet > wrote:
>>
>>> I've cut to 1 meal per day at present so am consuming under 600 calories
>>> per day. It's sped up my weight loss nicely. I was tired of being
>>> stalled out.
>>
>> My oldest son, the one who already eats so much, announced recently that
>> he's going on a diet. 4,000 calories a day! I don't know how many
>> pounds he's trying to gain.
>
>it's almost as hard to put on weight deliberately as it is to lose it. is
>he wearing ankle and wrist weights?
>
A quart of full fat ice cream every night will do it.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"George Shirley" > wrote in message
...
> Puester wrote:
>> George Shirley wrote:
>>>
>>> One thing I don't eat is herring in any manner, never did like the
>>> stuff. My Dutch friends loved raw herring with onion. Coming from the
>>> Gulf Coast where fish are often wormy I never eat raw fish of any sort.
>>> Of course I don't eat raw meat of any kind either. If were meant to eat
>>> raw meat we wouldn't have learned to use fire IMHO.
>>
>>
>>
>> I won't eat raw fish or raw meat, either, after some microbiology
>> courses.
>>
>> The first time I went to Sweden with DH on business, our partner decided
>> I should be exposed to "real" Swedish food.
>>
>> They served a large platter of "mixed" herring as an appetizer:
>> Pickled herring in wine with onion, in mustard, in tomato sauce,
>> in sour cream, and gravalax salmon. I was quite unhappy because I
>> thought it would be awful, but I actually liked most of it quite a bit.
>>
>> It was followed by roast moose tenderloin with a wine reduction sauce,
>> the
>> ever-present boiled potatoes with parsley, and fresh asparagus. The
>> moose
>> was REALLY good. Dessert was various cheeses and fruit.
>>
>> gloria p
>
> I fished with friends on the Columbia River in Washington State. They used
> pickled herring as bait and sprayed the bait with WD40 so it would leave a
> scent trail. One of them decided to try a little herring and spent the
> rest of the fishing trip "chumming" for sturgeon over the rail of the
> boat.
>
> Cold water fish aren't as susceptible to worms as warm water fish but I
> would rather not take a chance. After you cook the fish thoroughly you
> can't tell the worms from the rest of the fish and that's okay by me.
>
> I've never lived more than 50 miles from salt water in my seventy years on
> this earth and don't ever want to. I can drive ten miles from our home and
> be standing on the river bank fishing in tidal waters and then another
> fifty miles and be dipping my tootsies in the Golfo de Mexico. That's
> living. You can have all those lakes and reservoirs, give me salt water.

I don't agree, plenty of fresh water fish is excellent eating; trout, pike,
pickerel, whitefish, carp, sable, sturgeon, muskalunge, etc.... and cold
fresh water fish is better than from warm fresh water.. cold water ocean
fish is far superior to warm water catch like in the gulf. And how can
someone say they don't like herring without saying which type, I like all
forms of herring but smoked herring is excellent, all smoked fish is good
eating (sea and fresh). There are different pickling/smoking methods, and
different fish that are pickled/smoked.

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:41:24 -0500, George Shirley wrote:

>
> One thing I don't eat is herring in any manner, never did like the
> stuff. My Dutch friends loved raw herring with onion. Coming from the
> Gulf Coast where fish are often wormy I never eat raw fish of any sort.
> Of course I don't eat raw meat of any kind either. If were meant to eat
> raw meat we wouldn't have learned to use fire IMHO.

In Holland,raw herring is only allowed if it has been deep frozen to kill
that dangerous herringworm. The real raw herring is no more available..

--
Groet, salut, Wim.

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:54:41 -0600, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> >Baby bunnies? Argh! ;-)
> >I love your description...
>
> This is grossing me out. I'm killing the thread.

Dogs are dogs Barb. I understand where you are coming from but I did
wildlife rescue for too many years to not understand that animals are
animals and will live up to their nature.

Dad's Lab/Chow, Ferocious, will kill and eat any bird he can catch.
I've come to accept it.
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

Wim van Bemmel wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:41:24 -0500, George Shirley wrote:
>
>> One thing I don't eat is herring in any manner, never did like the
>> stuff. My Dutch friends loved raw herring with onion. Coming from the
>> Gulf Coast where fish are often wormy I never eat raw fish of any sort.
>> Of course I don't eat raw meat of any kind either. If were meant to eat
>> raw meat we wouldn't have learned to use fire IMHO.
>
> In Holland,raw herring is only allowed if it has been deep frozen to kill
> that dangerous herringworm. The real raw herring is no more available..
>


Last time I was there for any length of time was June, 1982. AFAIK raw
herring was still available then. I didn't eat any so don't know for sure.

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:07:03 -0500, George Shirley wrote:

> Wim van Bemmel wrote:
>> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:41:24 -0500, George Shirley wrote:
>>
>>> One thing I don't eat is herring in any manner, never did like the
>>> stuff. My Dutch friends loved raw herring with onion. Coming from the
>>> Gulf Coast where fish are often wormy I never eat raw fish of any
>>> sort. Of course I don't eat raw meat of any kind either. If were meant
>>> to eat raw meat we wouldn't have learned to use fire IMHO.
>>
>> In Holland,raw herring is only allowed if it has been deep frozen to
>> kill that dangerous herringworm. The real raw herring is no more
>> available..
>>
>>
>
> Last time I was there for any length of time was June, 1982. AFAIK raw
> herring was still available then. I didn't eat any so don't know for
> sure.

Yes, that may be possible. It was after an infestment with herringworms
that real fresh unfrozen raw herrings were forbidden. (they never were
real fresh, but fermented in salt). That regulation is from 1968, so I
think you did not see the real 'green´ unfrozen herring, but ones that
were treated the deep freeze.

--
Groet, salut, Wim.

blake murphy wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 15:18:20 -0500, George Shirley wrote:
>
>
>>Kathleen wrote:
>>
>>>Cooper, our JRT, is quite adept at keeping our yard free of bunnies.
>>>It's amazing to see a 14 pound lap dog run down and kill a full grown
>>>rabbit.
>>>
>>>And it is a testament to the preventative powers of the ivermectin in
>>>Heartgard that none of the three dogs have required treatment for
>>>tapeworms, in spite of ingesting Cooper's prey.
>>>
>>>At least Cooper's depredation of the adult population have prevented any
>>>nests this year. That's REALLY upsetting. If you manage to avoid
>>>hitting them with the lawn mower, you're minding your own business,
>>>washing the dishes and looking out the window, and you see the dogs out
>>>there, scarfing something down like single-serving snack packs
>>>(seriously, who can stop at one?), and it's not until one of them flips
>>>something into the air and catches it it to swallow whole that you
>>>realize what they've got...
>>>
>>
>>Praise them. They're doing what they were bred for. My rat terriers have
>>always been good at catching rats, squirrels, and the odd rabbit that
>>used to show up before we put up the board fence. None of them cared to
>>eat them and always brought them to me. I generally would cook them up
>>some squirrel or rabbit and they would then eat it. More discerning
>>palates than those rough-neck JRT's I guess.
>
>
> <snort>
>
> your pal,
> blake

Cooper says George's dogs are dilettante posers and should have their
Terrier Union membership cards revoked. Geeze, even border collies
enjoy bunny tartare.

"Catch it, kill it, eat it raw."

Kathleen wrote:
> blake murphy wrote:
>> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 15:18:20 -0500, George Shirley wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Kathleen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cooper, our JRT, is quite adept at keeping our yard free of bunnies.
>>>> It's amazing to see a 14 pound lap dog run down and kill a full
>>>> grown rabbit.
>>>>
>>>> And it is a testament to the preventative powers of the ivermectin
>>>> in Heartgard that none of the three dogs have required treatment for
>>>> tapeworms, in spite of ingesting Cooper's prey.
>>>>
>>>> At least Cooper's depredation of the adult population have prevented
>>>> any nests this year. That's REALLY upsetting. If you manage to
>>>> avoid hitting them with the lawn mower, you're minding your own
>>>> business, washing the dishes and looking out the window, and you see
>>>> the dogs out there, scarfing something down like single-serving
>>>> snack packs (seriously, who can stop at one?), and it's not until
>>>> one of them flips something into the air and catches it it to
>>>> swallow whole that you realize what they've got...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Praise them. They're doing what they were bred for. My rat terriers
>>> have always been good at catching rats, squirrels, and the odd rabbit
>>> that used to show up before we put up the board fence. None of them
>>> cared to eat them and always brought them to me. I generally would
>>> cook them up some squirrel or rabbit and they would then eat it. More
>>> discerning palates than those rough-neck JRT's I guess.
>>
>>
>> <snort>
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> Cooper says George's dogs are dilettante posers and should have their
> Terrier Union membership cards revoked. Geeze, even border collies
> enjoy bunny tartare.
>
> "Catch it, kill it, eat it raw."
>

Now, now Cooper, my ratties are always female, of course they're more
delicate than the leg hikers.

Puester > wrote:

> I won't eat raw fish or raw meat, either, after some
> microbiology courses.

After some microbiology courses, it would be nearly as logical to refuse
to eat anything at all.

> They served a large platter of "mixed" herring as an appetizer: Pickled
> herring in wine with onion, in mustard, in tomato sauce, in sour cream,
> and gravalax salmon. I was quite unhappy because I thought it would be
> awful, but I actually liked most of it quite a bit.

Herring is a religion all of its own and its supreme god is
matjes/maatjesharing/jonge haring, as far as I am concerned. They have
something that they call matjes herring in Sweden and the rest of
Scandinavia, too - and it is mentioned by Apple - but it is not the real
thing. The real thing is available practically only in The Netherlands
and Germany. It is a very slightly salty, soft, fat, plump, tender,
melting-in-the-mouth goodness. It can be found around the year easily
enough, but the best appears in the sping-early summer. It is only good
when sold quasi fresh, by the double fillet, never canned or otherwise
packaged.

Below is a delectable chapter on herring from _Apple's Europe_ by the
late, lamented R. W. Apple jr.

Victor

Clupea Harengus
From _Apple's Europe_ by R. W. Apple Jr.

For the peoples who live around the Baltic and the North seas, preserved
fish has always been a staple. Scots, Englishmen, Dutchmen, Germans,
Danes, Finns, Norwegians and Swedes have devised dozens of ways of
salting and pickling the catch taken off their shores. Salt cod, smoked
salmon and mackerel and eel, pickled shrimp, the elegant cured salmon
called _gravlax_ -- all have their honored place on the tables of modern
Europe.
But the humble herring (Clupea harengus) reigns supreme in
Scandinavia. Herring bones have been discovered in Scandinavian mounds
dating from neolithic times; in the Middle Ages it was the herring trade
that brought the merchants of Lübeck into the region, giving birth to
the Hanseatic League. No visitor should miss the chance to explore the
astounding number of changes that talented Scandinavian cooks can ring
on this ancient regional theme.
There is such a mind-boggling array of herring recipes in Scandinavia
that it is enough to make one believe the story, told by Alan Davidson
in his book _North Atlantic Seafood_, that in certain Finnish villages a
girl is not considered marriageable until she can prepare the fish
twenty-five ways.
Here are just a few of the commoner varieties:

_Pickled Herring_. Salt herring cut into strips, pickled in a
white-vinegar-and-sugar solution that also contains allspice and bay
leaves, topped with red onion rings.
_Curried Herring_. Salt herring in a cold curry sauce.
_Matjes Herring with Sour Cream_. The only one, curiously enough, that
is routinely encountered in non-Baltic countries, except in families
with Baltic roots.
_Stromming or Baltic Herring_. Split, battered, fried and then
marinated in dill, that most Scandinavian of herbs.
_Glassblower's Herring_. So called because it is made in a tall glass
jar with carrots and onions.
_Herring Salad_. Herring, beets, cucumbers and sour cream.
_Smoked Herring_. But enough. You get the idea.

The tiniest of herrings, sometimes no more than six inches long, come
from the Baltic, and many people think that the most delectable of those
come from the waters surrounding the Danish island of Bornholm. They
are extremely perishable, so they are caught, cleaned and smoked on the
same day, then rushed to Copenhagen. The smoking turns them from silver
to reddish-gold. (Smoked herring drawn across a fox's path, the English
discovered, destroys the scent and confounds the dogs: hence the phrase
"red herring" for diversionary tactics.)
As with other delicacies, the Danes tend to turn Bornholmers into
open-faced sandwiches or smørrebrød. The herring is filleted, laid on
a buttered side of dark bread and garnished with sliced radishes,
chives, and sometimes a raw egg yolk. Taken with one or two smørrebrød
of contrasting taste and texture and, of course, with a glass of potent
ice-cold aquavit tamed by beer, they make a splendid lunch.
In the old days, one would have sought such a meal at Oskar
Davidsen's, a waterside pavilion in Copenhagen that listed 170 kinds of
sandwiches on a five-foot-long menu. Alas, it is no more. But the
daughter of the house, a cheery, round-faced woman named Ida, carries on
the tradition in a trim little restaurant bearing her name, open for
lunch only, at 70 Store Kongensgade. Tell her that you are interested
in herring, and especially Bornholmers, and she will help you make an
apt selection of smørrebrød.
Scandinavians also eat herring for breakfast, along with cheese and
ham and salami. You will probably find a small dish or two, perhaps one
of herring in tomato sauce, another of plain pickled herring, on the
overladen breakfast buffet at your hotel. They sometimes fry larger
fish, if they are not too fat, for dinner. And at the Tre Kokker you
will be served herring in a thin, clear, vinegar-based sauce, garnished
with grapefruit.
But it is in the traditional Swedish smorgasbord, it seems to me,
that Scandinavian herring reaches its peak. And the fines smorgasbord
in the world, without question, is the enormous copper table, fitted
with bains-marie and ice chests and a wooden spindle to hold wheels of
flatbread, that dominates the main room at Stockholm's Operakälleren.
This splendid place, all deep carpets and rich panelling, is not, as the
name suggests, a cellar, but it is, in fact, part of Stockholm's
nineteenth-century opera house.
Each lunchtime, the table is set, with herring at one end, other fish
dishes, cheese, cold meats, salads and so on along the sides, and warm
dishes at the other end. It is not done to heap your plate with a
mishmash of delicacies; you take first as many sorts of herring as you
like, and go to your table to eat them, accompanied by aquavit (I would
suggest a Danish Jubilaeums or a Norwegian Linie or, for the bold, a
spicy Swedish Stenborgare) and beer (what else but Tuborg or Carsberg?).
When you have finished, the waiter takes your plate, and you return for
a second, this time with other fish, a third, with cold meats, cheese
and salads, and a fourth, with hot dishes, such as Swedish meatballs and
Jansson's temptation, a succulent casserole of potatoes and anchovies.
It is a slow, relaxing process, to be undertaken when the afternoon
presents no greater demands than a long walk or a nap.
Lunch at the Operakälleren is one of my favorite meals in Europe. I
would no more miss it while in Stockholm, even if for economic reasons I
had to eat hamburgers during the rest of my visit, than I would miss a
beer garden or a _Brauhaus_ in Munich. The main reason, aside from the
grace of the place and the kindness of the waiters in their
old-fashioned, stiffly starched wing collars, is the herring.

George Shirley wrote:

> Kathleen wrote:
>
>> blake murphy wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 15:18:20 -0500, George Shirley wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Kathleen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Cooper, our JRT, is quite adept at keeping our yard free of
>>>>> bunnies. It's amazing to see a 14 pound lap dog run down and kill a
>>>>> full grown rabbit.
>>>>>
>>>>> And it is a testament to the preventative powers of the ivermectin
>>>>> in Heartgard that none of the three dogs have required treatment
>>>>> for tapeworms, in spite of ingesting Cooper's prey.
>>>>>
>>>>> At least Cooper's depredation of the adult population have
>>>>> prevented any nests this year. That's REALLY upsetting. If you
>>>>> manage to avoid hitting them with the lawn mower, you're minding
>>>>> your own business, washing the dishes and looking out the window,
>>>>> and you see the dogs out there, scarfing something down like
>>>>> single-serving snack packs (seriously, who can stop at one?), and
>>>>> it's not until one of them flips something into the air and catches
>>>>> it it to swallow whole that you realize what they've got...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Praise them. They're doing what they were bred for. My rat terriers
>>>> have always been good at catching rats, squirrels, and the odd
>>>> rabbit that used to show up before we put up the board fence. None
>>>> of them cared to eat them and always brought them to me. I generally
>>>> would cook them up some squirrel or rabbit and they would then eat
>>>> it. More discerning palates than those rough-neck JRT's I guess.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <snort>
>>>
>>> your pal,
>>> blake
>>
>>
>> Cooper says George's dogs are dilettante posers and should have their
>> Terrier Union membership cards revoked. Geeze, even border collies
>> enjoy bunny tartare.
>>
>> "Catch it, kill it, eat it raw."
>>
>
> Now, now Cooper, my ratties are always female, of course they're more
> delicate than the leg hikers.

Egads. That's even worse. The term "bitch" didn't get to be an insult
for no reason.

For shame...

On Apr 3, 12:44*pm, Omelet > wrote:
> In article >,
> *sf > wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:54:41 -0600, Omelet >
> > wrote:
>
> > >Baby bunnies? Argh! ;-)
> > >I love your description...
>
> > This is grossing me out. *I'm killing the thread.
>
> Dogs are dogs Barb. I understand where you are coming from but I did
> wildlife rescue for too many years to not understand that animals are
> animals and will live up to their nature.
>
> Dad's Lab/Chow, Ferocious, will kill and eat any bird he can catch. *
>

Not me. They have to be big enough to be worth the butchering. I go
by the couplet:

It's not the kind of bird that I'd ever go a hunting.
'Cause there's not much meat on an indigo bunting.

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAbou...o_Bunting.html

> --
> Peace! Om

--Bryan

In article
>,
Bobo Bonobo® > wrote:

> On Apr 3, 12:44*pm, Omelet > wrote:
> > In article >,
> > *sf > wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:54:41 -0600, Omelet >
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > >Baby bunnies? Argh! ;-)
> > > >I love your description...
> >
> > > This is grossing me out. *I'm killing the thread.
> >
> > Dogs are dogs Barb. I understand where you are coming from but I did
> > wildlife rescue for too many years to not understand that animals are
> > animals and will live up to their nature.
> >
> > Dad's Lab/Chow, Ferocious, will kill and eat any bird he can catch. *
> >
>
> Not me. They have to be big enough to be worth the butchering. I go
> by the couplet:
>
> It's not the kind of bird that I'd ever go a hunting.
> 'Cause there's not much meat on an indigo bunting.
>
> http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAbou...rdGuide/Indigo Bunting.html
>
>
> --Bryan

<grins> What I mostly find piles of feathers from are Grackles, and the
occasional pigeon.

I wish he'd start eating some of that pack of sparrows that is living
out back. They poop in his water dish!
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

Puester wrote:
>
> PETER??? You ate PETER?
>
> What a savage!

Nah, my rabbit was carrying a basket of eggs.
Tossed that next to the creek, along with the body.
Coyote food, all of it. :-)

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 23:55:15 +0200, Victor Sack wrote:

> Puester > wrote:
>
>> I won't eat raw fish or raw meat, either, after some
>> microbiology courses.
>
> After some microbiology courses, it would be nearly as logical to refuse
> to eat anything at all.
>
<snort>

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:58:22 -0700, sf wrote:

> On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:17:24 GMT, blake murphy
> > wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:33:48 -0700, Dan Abel wrote:
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> Omelet > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've cut to 1 meal per day at present so am consuming under 600 calories
>>>> per day. It's sped up my weight loss nicely. I was tired of being
>>>> stalled out.
>>>
>>> My oldest son, the one who already eats so much, announced recently that
>>> he's going on a diet. 4,000 calories a day! I don't know how many
>>> pounds he's trying to gain.
>>
>>it's almost as hard to put on weight deliberately as it is to lose it. is
>>he wearing ankle and wrist weights?
>>
> A quart of full fat ice cream every night will do it.

but are you trying to gain weight *deliberately*? the somatic gods will
not be trifled with.

your pal,
blake

On Apr 2, 10:30*pm, Puester > wrote:
> George Shirley wrote:
>
> > One thing I don't eat is herring in any manner, never did like the
> > stuff. My Dutch friends loved raw herring with onion. Coming from the
> > Gulf Coast where fish are often wormy I never eat raw fish of any sort.
> > Of course I don't eat raw meat of any kind either. If were meant to eat
> > raw meat we wouldn't have learned to use fire IMHO.
>
> I won't eat raw fish or raw meat, either, after some
> microbiology courses.
>
I've taken microbiology too, and if I had more sense than sense of
taste, I'd likely feel the same way. I've just never--to my
knowledge--been sickened by raw beef, and I've eaten it at least 1000
times.
>
> gloria p

--Bryan

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:13:25 -0500, George Shirley wrote:

> Kathleen wrote:
>> blake murphy wrote:
>>> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 15:18:20 -0500, George Shirley wrote:
>>>
>>>> Praise them. They're doing what they were bred for. My rat terriers
>>>> have always been good at catching rats, squirrels, and the odd rabbit
>>>> that used to show up before we put up the board fence. None of them
>>>> cared to eat them and always brought them to me. I generally would
>>>> cook them up some squirrel or rabbit and they would then eat it. More
>>>> discerning palates than those rough-neck JRT's I guess.
>>>
>>>
>>> <snort>
>>>
>>> your pal,
>>> blake
>>
>> Cooper says George's dogs are dilettante posers and should have their
>> Terrier Union membership cards revoked. Geeze, even border collies
>> enjoy bunny tartare.
>>
>> "Catch it, kill it, eat it raw."
>>
>
> Now, now Cooper, my ratties are always female, of course they're more
> delicate than the leg hikers.

but can they do math?

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 23:55:15 +0200, Victor Sack wrote:

> Puester > wrote:
>
>> I won't eat raw fish or raw meat, either, after some microbiology
>> courses.
>
> After some microbiology courses, it would be nearly as logical to refuse
> to eat anything at all.
>
>> They served a large platter of "mixed" herring as an appetizer: Pickled
>> herring in wine with onion, in mustard, in tomato sauce, in sour cream,
>> and gravalax salmon. I was quite unhappy because I thought it would be
>> awful, but I actually liked most of it quite a bit.
>
> Herring is a religion all of its own and its supreme god is
> matjes/maatjesharing/jonge haring, as far as I am concerned. They have
> something that they call matjes herring in Sweden and the rest of
> Scandinavia, too - and it is mentioned by Apple - but it is not the real
> thing. The real thing is available practically only in The Netherlands
> and Germany. It is a very slightly salty, soft, fat, plump, tender,
> melting-in-the-mouth goodness. It can be found around the year easily
> enough, but the best appears in the sping-early summer. It is only good
> when sold quasi fresh, by the double fillet, never canned or otherwise
> packaged.
>
> Below is a delectable chapter on herring from _Apple's Europe_ by the
> late, lamented R. W. Apple jr.
>
> Victor
>
> Clupea Harengus
> From _Apple's Europe_ by R. W. Apple Jr.
>
> For the peoples who live around the Baltic and the North seas, preserved
> fish has always been a staple. Scots, Englishmen, Dutchmen, Germans,
> Danes, Finns, Norwegians and Swedes have devised dozens of ways of
> salting and pickling the catch taken off their shores. Salt cod, smoked
> salmon and mackerel and eel, pickled shrimp, the elegant cured salmon
> called _gravlax_ -- all have their honored place on the tables of modern
> Europe.
> But the humble herring (Clupea harengus) reigns supreme in
> Scandinavia. Herring bones have been discovered in Scandinavian mounds
> dating from neolithic times; in the Middle Ages it was the herring trade
> that brought the merchants of Lübeck into the region, giving birth to
> the Hanseatic League. No visitor should miss the chance to explore the
> astounding number of changes that talented Scandinavian cooks can ring
> on this ancient regional theme.
> There is such a mind-boggling array of herring recipes in Scandinavia
> that it is enough to make one believe the story, told by Alan Davidson
> in his book _North Atlantic Seafood_, that in certain Finnish villages a
> girl is not considered marriageable until she can prepare the fish
> twenty-five ways.
> Here are just a few of the commoner varieties:
>
> _Pickled Herring_. Salt herring cut into strips, pickled in a
> white-vinegar-and-sugar solution that also contains allspice and bay
> leaves, topped with red onion rings.
> _Curried Herring_. Salt herring in a cold curry sauce. _Matjes Herring
> with Sour Cream_. The only one, curiously enough, that is routinely
> encountered in non-Baltic countries, except in families with Baltic
> roots.
> _Stromming or Baltic Herring_. Split, battered, fried and then
> marinated in dill, that most Scandinavian of herbs. _Glassblower's
> Herring_. So called because it is made in a tall glass jar with carrots
> and onions.
> _Herring Salad_. Herring, beets, cucumbers and sour cream. _Smoked
> Herring_. But enough. You get the idea.
>
> The tiniest of herrings, sometimes no more than six inches long, come
> from the Baltic, and many people think that the most delectable of those
> come from the waters surrounding the Danish island of Bornholm. They
> are extremely perishable, so they are caught, cleaned and smoked on the
> same day, then rushed to Copenhagen. The smoking turns them from silver
> to reddish-gold. (Smoked herring drawn across a fox's path, the English
> discovered, destroys the scent and confounds the dogs: hence the phrase
> "red herring" for diversionary tactics.)
> As with other delicacies, the Danes tend to turn Bornholmers into
> open-faced sandwiches or smørrebrød. The herring is filleted, laid on a
> buttered side of dark bread and garnished with sliced radishes, chives,
> and sometimes a raw egg yolk. Taken with one or two smørrebrød of
> contrasting taste and texture and, of course, with a glass of potent
> ice-cold aquavit tamed by beer, they make a splendid lunch.
> In the old days, one would have sought such a meal at Oskar
> Davidsen's, a waterside pavilion in Copenhagen that listed 170 kinds of
> sandwiches on a five-foot-long menu. Alas, it is no more. But the
> daughter of the house, a cheery, round-faced woman named Ida, carries on
> the tradition in a trim little restaurant bearing her name, open for
> lunch only, at 70 Store Kongensgade. Tell her that you are interested
> in herring, and especially Bornholmers, and she will help you make an
> apt selection of smørrebrød.
> Scandinavians also eat herring for breakfast, along with cheese and
> ham and salami. You will probably find a small dish or two, perhaps one
> of herring in tomato sauce, another of plain pickled herring, on the
> overladen breakfast buffet at your hotel. They sometimes fry larger
> fish, if they are not too fat, for dinner. And at the Tre Kokker you
> will be served herring in a thin, clear, vinegar-based sauce, garnished
> with grapefruit.
> But it is in the traditional Swedish smorgasbord, it seems to me,
> that Scandinavian herring reaches its peak. And the fines smorgasbord
> in the world, without question, is the enormous copper table, fitted
> with bains-marie and ice chests and a wooden spindle to hold wheels of
> flatbread, that dominates the main room at Stockholm's Operakälleren.
> This splendid place, all deep carpets and rich panelling, is not, as the
> name suggests, a cellar, but it is, in fact, part of Stockholm's
> nineteenth-century opera house.
> Each lunchtime, the table is set, with herring at one end, other fish
> dishes, cheese, cold meats, salads and so on along the sides, and warm
> dishes at the other end. It is not done to heap your plate with a
> mishmash of delicacies; you take first as many sorts of herring as you
> like, and go to your table to eat them, accompanied by aquavit (I would
> suggest a Danish Jubilaeums or a Norwegian Linie or, for the bold, a
> spicy Swedish Stenborgare) and beer (what else but Tuborg or Carsberg?).
> When you have finished, the waiter takes your plate, and you return for
> a second, this time with other fish, a third, with cold meats, cheese
> and salads, and a fourth, with hot dishes, such as Swedish meatballs and
> Jansson's temptation, a succulent casserole of potatoes and anchovies.
> It is a slow, relaxing process, to be undertaken when the afternoon
> presents no greater demands than a long walk or a nap.
> Lunch at the Operakälleren is one of my favorite meals in Europe. I
> would no more miss it while in Stockholm, even if for economic reasons I
> had to eat hamburgers during the rest of my visit, than I would miss a
> beer garden or a _Brauhaus_ in Munich. The main reason, aside from the
> grace of the place and the kindness of the waiters in their
> old-fashioned, stiffly starched wing collars, is the herring.

Fine explanation, Victor.

On Saturdays, if we, DW and me, are in Holland, we breakfast with herring,
the Dutch way. White bread, butter and herring. Fresh, raw, Maatjes.

Next trip will be to Stockholm !!
--
Groet, salut, Wim.

blake murphy wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:13:25 -0500, George Shirley wrote:
>
>
>>Kathleen wrote:
>>
>>>blake murphy wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 15:18:20 -0500, George Shirley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Praise them. They're doing what they were bred for. My rat terriers
>>>>>have always been good at catching rats, squirrels, and the odd rabbit
>>>>>that used to show up before we put up the board fence. None of them
>>>>>cared to eat them and always brought them to me. I generally would
>>>>>cook them up some squirrel or rabbit and they would then eat it. More
>>>>>discerning palates than those rough-neck JRT's I guess.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <snort>
>>>>
>>>>your pal,
>>>>blake
>>>
>>>Cooper says George's dogs are dilettante posers and should have their
>>>Terrier Union membership cards revoked. Geeze, even border collies
>>>enjoy bunny tartare.
>>>
>>>"Catch it, kill it, eat it raw."
>>>
>>
>>Now, now Cooper, my ratties are always female, of course they're more
>>delicate than the leg hikers.
>
>
> but can they do math?

Sure. They count just like the boy terriers:

"Mine, mine, mine, mine, mine..."

Terrier subtraction:

Mine (take it away if you're tough enough) = Yours.

Terrier division:

"Oh, geeze, I can't eat another bite. You can have the head and the ass
end."

Terrier multiplication:

"Woo hoo! Hey baby...."

In article >,
Kathleen > wrote:

> >>>Cooper says George's dogs are dilettante posers and should have their
> >>>Terrier Union membership cards revoked. Geeze, even border collies
> >>>enjoy bunny tartare.
> >>>
> >>>"Catch it, kill it, eat it raw."
> >>>
> >>
> >>Now, now Cooper, my ratties are always female, of course they're more
> >>delicate than the leg hikers.
> >
> >
> > but can they do math?
>
> Sure. They count just like the boy terriers:
>
> "Mine, mine, mine, mine, mine..."
>
> Terrier subtraction:
>
> Mine (take it away if you're tough enough) = Yours.
>
> Terrier division:
>
> "Oh, geeze, I can't eat another bite. You can have the head and the ass
> end."
>
> Terrier multiplication:
>
> "Woo hoo! Hey baby...."

<lol>!!!
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

Wim van Bemmel wrote:
>
> On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 23:55:15 +0200, Victor Sack wrote:
>

<snip article>

> Fine explanation, Victor.
>
> On Saturdays, if we, DW and me, are in Holland, we breakfast with herring,
> the Dutch way. White bread, butter and herring. Fresh, raw, Maatjes.
>
> Next trip will be to Stockholm !!
> --
> Groet, salut, Wim.

Shutupshutupshutup! LOL! Miss the maatjesharings! Dipped in raw minced
onion and gobbled head first yum yum yum!

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:33:48 -0700, Dan Abel wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Omelet > wrote:
> >
> >> I've cut to 1 meal per day at present so am consuming under 600 calories
> >> per day. It's sped up my weight loss nicely. I was tired of being
> >> stalled out.
> >
> > My oldest son, the one who already eats so much, announced recently that
> > he's going on a diet. 4,000 calories a day! I don't know how many
> > pounds he's trying to gain.
>
> it's almost as hard to put on weight deliberately as it is to lose it. is
> he wearing ankle and wrist weights?

No. He's bought a weight set. He and some friends have joined a gym
(the local Y). He's also doing some running. He's not actually too
thin. He and I are the same height and weight, 6'2" and 190 pounds.
The difference is I have an unwanted roll of fat around my middle, and
he is solid muscle.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 08:33:06 -0700 (PDT), Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
>
> > On Apr 2, 10:21*am, "cybercat" > wrote:
> >> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
> >>
> >> .. .> On Wed, 1 Apr 2009
> >> 19:45:49 -0700 (PDT), Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> >>
> >>>> On Apr 1, 8:35 pm, (Fred/Libby Barclay) wrote:
> >>>>> I'm so glad to know this was a joke! It's been bothering me all day as
> >>>>> a dog lover.
> >>
> >>>> I'm not a dog person, but I bear them no ill will.
> >>
> >>> <hysterical laughter>
> >>
> >>> this post is the real joke, right?
> >
> > You're still to stupid to understand the concept of collateral damage.
> >
>
> i understand the concept very well. i think you're stupid to think it was
> a good idea, that it somehow embodied 'justice.'

Here's what my dictionary says:

collateral damage

noun

used euphemistically to refer to inadvertent casualties among civilians
and destruction in civilian areas in the course of military operations.

[end of cite]

In the case of Bryan's story, this means that he is trying to get
revenge on the neighbors, but ends up killing the dog due to lack of
knowledge of the appropriate dose.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA