On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 11:49:52 GMT, brooklyn1 wrote:

> I never order scrambled/omelets out... it's like ground
> meat... unless you actually see the eggs cracked into a *clean* bowl and
> beaten with a *clean* utensil the only safe scrambled/omelet is that which
> you make yourself.

you're such a pussy.

blake

Sheldon wrote:

>> Did you know that dogs are not adversely affected by salmonella the
>> way people are?
>>
> Which people... you've built up an immunity too, with all the assholes
> you've sucked.

You really try to get an erection after you post something like that, don't
you? And you utterly fail, don't you?

At any rate, you're confusing salmonella with e. coli, but your ignorance is
no surprise to anyone.

Bob

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in
:

>
> "David Harmon" > wrote in message
> m...

>>
>> What does "double the temperature" mean? Degrees above absolute
>> zero?
>>
>>
>
> Sort of a strange way of specifying anything. Foods are supposed to
> be kept below 40 deg F so you could possibly be interpreting that as
> 80F. OTOH, if it was three times the guideline it would be within the
> guidelines, it would be safe again at the recommended 120 degrees.
>
>

Temps in Australia are measured in Celsius, though. The doubles and triples
wouldn't work out that way. The regs here (http://tinyurl.com/kkf3t3) are
that potentially hazardous food (which would include raw egg mayonnaise)
need to be stored at 5C (41F) or below, or 60C (140F) or above. Even if it
was 120F (49C) triple the cold temp still wouldn't bring it into the higher
safe temp.

It is an imprecise way of wording it. Perhaps the writer didn't want to go
into detail of the regulations and exactly how they breached them. The
regulations specify ways in which foods like this can be held at room temp,
but then there are time requirements - has to be used within certain
timeframe, can only be returned to refrigeration within a certain
timeframe, must be disposed of after a certain time at room temp etc.

Perhaps it was all too complicated, and they figured saying "double the
temperature" got across the idea that the mayonnaise had been stored
unsafely.


--
Rhonda Anderson
Cranebrook, NSW, Australia

Core of my heart, my country! Land of the rainbow gold,
For flood and fire and famine she pays us back threefold.
My Country, Dorothea MacKellar, 1904

In article >,
"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote:

> Sheldon wrote:
>
> > Everyone who eats gets food poisoning several times a year.
>
> I think you mean that everyone who eats at YOUR house gets food poisoning
> several times a year. I've had food poisoning once in my life, eating a
> company-provided buffet in England. I've never had food poisoning
> elsewhere -- though I *did* get hepatitis A from raw seafood at a seafood
> festival in Oregon.
>
> Bob

Hep A sounds pretty serious. It could eventually kill you.

Consider researching Milk Thistle.

I've had food poisoning twice. Once when I was 7 years old when we were
traveling to Alaska and got ahold of some bad smoked salmon (I remember
being deathly ill from that, and so were my parents and sister) and have
had Salmonella once from a bad raw egg that was from my own carelessness.

I try to be careful with food safety and imho, it's easy to become
overly paranoid, but it still must be treated with respect and a certain
amount of common sense...

I'll NEVER give up half-raw (or raw) beef or runny egg yolks, but will
attempt to temper it with common sense.

Unfortunately, common sense appears to be an oxymoron. :-(
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.


Subscribe:

In article .com>,
"Pete C." > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> >
> > In article >,
> > Bob Muncie > wrote:
> >
> > > > Yes, I'm a big fan of the thin flexible cutting boards too. You can fold
> > > > or roll them into chutes or funnels as needed.
> > >
> > > Thanks Pete. I probably should have mentioned that as an advantage also.
> > > After cutting the veggies or whatever, just pick up the mat, and
> > > twist the sides up to direct the ingredients straight into the pan or pot.
> > >
> > > Bob
> >
> > It does sound handy, but how do you get them to lay flat once you've
> > stored them rolled up?
>
> You don't store them rolled up.
>
> >
> > For meat/veggie slices, I just scoop them up with my chinese chef's
> > knife which is the one I use the most. My boards are also not so heavy
> > that I can't pick them up and scrape stuff into my pan or bowl.
>
> That works on the thin plastic ones too.

Ok, but I still just can't see it. :-)

Please forgive me, but I doubt I'll give up my wood boards anytime
soon...

To each his/her own preferences!
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.


Subscribe:

In article >,
Bob Muncie > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Bob Muncie > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>> Yes, I'm a big fan of the thin flexible cutting boards too. You can fold
> >>> or roll them into chutes or funnels as needed.
> >> Thanks Pete. I probably should have mentioned that as an advantage also.
> >> After cutting the veggies or whatever, just pick up the mat, and
> >> twist the sides up to direct the ingredients straight into the pan or pot.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >
> > It does sound handy, but how do you get them to lay flat once you've
> > stored them rolled up?
> >
> > For meat/veggie slices, I just scoop them up with my chinese chef's
> > knife which is the one I use the most. My boards are also not so heavy
> > that I can't pick them up and scrape stuff into my pan or bowl.
>
> Om -
>
> It's like a heavy sheet of plastic. After the wash & dry, I just sit it
> on it's side edge behind my counter spices. Takes up about the same
> amount of space as a sheet of paper.
>
> For scooping stuff up with blade and hand, you could continue to do that
> if you want, but that wold be silly if you can just pick them up *with*
> the mat, and dump them straight into the pan or pot.

But I do that with my wood boards already.
They are oak, but not heavy.

>
> Here's an example from Amazon.com (where I buy a lot of stuff from),
> not that I'm pumping their site.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ohv7ud
>
> regards,
>
> Bob

Ok, thanks, but I still see no significant difference in usage.

I know I can't "fold" the wood boards, but it's honestly no big deal
with sufficient knife handling skills. :-)

But like I said in a previous post, whatever works for the individual
cook! It's all good...
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.


Subscribe:

In article >,
"brooklyn1" > wrote:

> > mind you he taught me the eating pleasure of a blue steak.
>
> The interior of mammal muscle is sterile, with proper food handling there is
> no reason a steak can't be eaten dead raw... it's ground meat that requires
> more vigilence... if you grind your own meat you can eat raw burgers.

Absolutely, totally and completely agree!!!
This is pure science.
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.


Subscribe:

In article >,
"brooklyn1" > wrote:

> do not use eggs
> with cracked shells

Breaking that rule (pun intended) is the cause of my one and only case
of Salmonella food poisoning. It was a stupid mistake and I actually
thought about it prior to violating it.

I like raw eggs.

If it's cracked, toss it. It's not worth the $100.00 ER co-pay.
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.


Subscribe:

In article >,
George Shirley > wrote:

> I have a cutting board that is eighteen inches wide by 30 inches long,
> custom made by a cabinet maker friend from hard rock maple many years
> ago. That thing has traveled the world with us in my suitcase. He
> laminated strips of the maple so that the cutting edge was perfect. I've
> used it almost daily for over thirty years and it's still as good as new.
>
> I use one of those plastic cutting boards for meat, run it through the
> dishwasher, buy another about once a year.

Why?
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.


Subscribe:

In article >,
ChattyCathy > wrote:

> David wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > ChattyCathy > wrote:
> >
> >> mayonnaise with
> >> raw eggs
> >
> > From
> >
> http://www.ausfoodnews.com.au/2009/0...ng-outbreak-in
> > -nsw-leads-to-42000-fine.html
> >
> > ...and lots more at that URL
>
> Well, I make mayo for our own consumption at home and have no intention
> of going into the catering business...
> >
> > David - who used to give his dog raw eggs, but never again
>
> Which is your prerogative.

When mom made home made mayo with our own hens eggs, it was refrigerated
immediately, not stored at bad temps.

Yeesh!
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.


Subscribe:

In article >,
ChattyCathy > wrote:

> Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>
> >
> > Did you know that dogs are not adversely affected by salmonella the
> > way people are?
>
> I didn't know that, but when I see some of the stuff dogs eat and live
> to bark another day it doesn't surprise me. Besides, humans and dogs
> are somewhat different (biologically), so obviously what might be OK
> for one is not always good for the other... take chocolate for
> instance. I've been told that one should never feed dogs chocolate,
> because their systems can't handle it somehow. I suppose that's why
> they make 'doggie candy' etc.

Animal nutrition is different from humans.

Another interesting factoid is that Avocados will kill parrots.

Aspirin and Tylenol should also not be used on cats and dogs without a
vets guidance.
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.


Subscribe:

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> George Shirley > wrote:
>
>> I have a cutting board that is eighteen inches wide by 30 inches long,
>> custom made by a cabinet maker friend from hard rock maple many years
>> ago. That thing has traveled the world with us in my suitcase. He
>> laminated strips of the maple so that the cutting edge was perfect. I've
>> used it almost daily for over thirty years and it's still as good as new.
>>
>> I use one of those plastic cutting boards for meat, run it through the
>> dishwasher, buy another about once a year.
>
> Why?

I chucked a little to myself when picturing George wondering the world's
airports lugging his hefty cutting board around in a suitcase :-)

Bob

In article >,
Bob Muncie > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > George Shirley > wrote:
> >
> >> I have a cutting board that is eighteen inches wide by 30 inches long,
> >> custom made by a cabinet maker friend from hard rock maple many years
> >> ago. That thing has traveled the world with us in my suitcase. He
> >> laminated strips of the maple so that the cutting edge was perfect. I've
> >> used it almost daily for over thirty years and it's still as good as new.
> >>
> >> I use one of those plastic cutting boards for meat, run it through the
> >> dishwasher, buy another about once a year.
> >
> > Why?
>
> I chucked a little to myself when picturing George wondering the world's
> airports lugging his hefty cutting board around in a suitcase :-)
>
> Bob

;-D
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.


Subscribe:

Om wrote:

> When mom made home made mayo with our own hens eggs, it was refrigerated
> immediately, not stored at bad temps.
>
> Yeesh!

According to Alton Brown, you should leave homemade mayo OUT for two hours
after making it. Apparently the acidity kills bacteria during that time,
where refrigeration would slow the slaughter.

Bob

In article >,
"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote:

> Om wrote:
>
> > When mom made home made mayo with our own hens eggs, it was refrigerated
> > immediately, not stored at bad temps.
> >
> > Yeesh!
>
> According to Alton Brown, you should leave homemade mayo OUT for two hours
> after making it. Apparently the acidity kills bacteria during that time,
> where refrigeration would slow the slaughter.
>
> Bob

Interesting concept.
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.


Subscribe:

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> "brooklyn1" > wrote:
>
>>> mind you he taught me the eating pleasure of a blue steak.
>> The interior of mammal muscle is sterile, with proper food handling there is
>> no reason a steak can't be eaten dead raw... it's ground meat that requires
>> more vigilence... if you grind your own meat you can eat raw burgers.
>
> Absolutely, totally and completely agree!!!
> This is pure science.

I disagree to some extent. If you get a cut of meat, the exterior
could be contaminated. Thus, if you grind your own meat, you
could have some of that contamination in it. Steaks, yes. Cook
the exterior (assuming you haven't pricked, beaten, etc. the
meat), and the interior would be fine. Of course, then I start
thinking of prions, but...

--
Jean B.

On Jun 21, 5:13*am, Omelet > wrote:
> In article >,
>
> *"brooklyn1" > wrote:
> > do not use eggs
> > with cracked shells
>
> Breaking that rule (pun intended) is the cause of my one and only case
> of Salmonella food poisoning. It was a stupid mistake and I actually
> thought about it prior to violating it.
>
> I like raw eggs.

"A study by the U.S. Department of Agriculture in 2002 (Risk Analysis
April 2002 22(2):203-18) suggests the problem is not as prevalent as
once thought. It showed that of the 69 billion eggs produced annually
only 2.3 million are contaminated with salmonella - equivalent to just
one in every 30,000 eggs - thus showing that salmonella infection is
quite rarely induced by eggs."
source-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_(food)

I majorly ick on raw white, but am totally on board with raw yolk. If
I'm going to use the yolk raw, I rinse it first.
>
> If it's cracked, toss it. *It's not worth the $100.00 ER co-pay.

The physical sensations would be a bigger factor than the $100.

> --
> Peace! Om
>
--Bryan

On Jun 21, 8:23*am, "Jean B." > wrote:
> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > *"brooklyn1" > wrote:
>
> >>> mind you he taught me the eating pleasure of a blue steak.
> >> The interior of mammal muscle is sterile, with proper food handling there is
> >> no reason a steak can't be eaten dead raw... it's ground meat that requires
> >> more vigilence... if you grind your own meat you can eat raw burgers.
>
> > Absolutely, totally and completely agree!!!
> > This is pure science.
>
> I disagree to some extent. *If you get a cut of meat, the exterior
> could be contaminated. *Thus, if you grind your own meat, you
> could have some of that contamination in it. *Steaks, yes. *Cook
> the exterior (assuming you haven't pricked, beaten, etc. the
> meat), and the interior would be fine. *Of course, then I start
> thinking of prions, but...

Back when I used to have a meat grinder I used to hot sear 2" thick
top rounds, then trim the fat and grind it. I'd grill it for my wife,
but I'd eat it just like that. That was many years ago, in the time
of briquets. It'd be even better now seared over wood.

Is it worth me buying another hand cranked grinder? I wonder?
>
> --
> Jean B.

--Bryan

On Jun 21, 9:48*am, Bobo Bonobo® > wrote:
> On Jun 21, 8:23*am, "Jean B." > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Omelet wrote:
> > > In article >,
> > > *"brooklyn1" > wrote:
>
> > >>> mind you he taught me the eating pleasure of a blue steak.
> > >> The interior of mammal muscle is sterile, with proper food handling there is
> > >> no reason a steak can't be eaten dead raw... it's ground meat that requires
> > >> more vigilence... if you grind your own meat you can eat raw burgers..
>
> > > Absolutely, totally and completely agree!!!
> > > This is pure science.
>
> > I disagree to some extent. *If you get a cut of meat, the exterior
> > could be contaminated. *Thus, if you grind your own meat, you
> > could have some of that contamination in it. *Steaks, yes. *Cook
> > the exterior (assuming you haven't pricked, beaten, etc. the
> > meat), and the interior would be fine. *Of course, then I start
> > thinking of prions, but...
>
> Back when I used to have a meat grinder I used to hot sear 2" thick
> top rounds, then trim the fat and grind it. *I'd grill it for my wife,
> but I'd eat it just like that. *That was many years ago, in the time
> of briquets. *It'd be even better now seared over wood.
>
> Is it worth me buying another hand cranked grinder? *I wonder?
>
>
>
> > --
> > Jean B.
>
> --Bryan

I'll always remember the time we bought a piece of round steak and a
small can of tomato sauce, sliced up the round steak and dipped it in
the tomato sauce and ate it raw! YUM!

Thanks for introducing me to raw beef, Bryan! :-)

John Kuthe...

John Kuthe > wrote in news:79a07237-b4f1-421c-be72-
:


>
> I'll always remember the time we bought a piece of round steak and a
> small can of tomato sauce, sliced up the round steak and dipped it in
> the tomato sauce and ate it raw! YUM!
>


I'm slowly working my SO up to the fact that we are going to be having Steak
Tartare one night :-)

I can't wait.......... but she can!!!



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

"As viscous as motor oil swirled in a swamp, redolent of burnt bell peppers
nested in by incontinent mice and a finish reminiscent of the dregs of a
stale can of Coca-Cola that someone has been using as an ashtray. Not a bad
drink, though."
Excerpt from "The Moose Turd Wine Tasting" by T. A. Nonymous

"Jean B." wrote:
>
> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "brooklyn1" > wrote:
> >
> >>> mind you he taught me the eating pleasure of a blue steak.
> >> The interior of mammal muscle is sterile, with proper food handling there is
> >> no reason a steak can't be eaten dead raw... it's ground meat that requires
> >> more vigilence... if you grind your own meat you can eat raw burgers.
> >
> > Absolutely, totally and completely agree!!!
> > This is pure science.
>
> I disagree to some extent. If you get a cut of meat, the exterior
> could be contaminated. Thus, if you grind your own meat, you
> could have some of that contamination in it. Steaks, yes. Cook
> the exterior (assuming you haven't pricked, beaten, etc. the
> meat), and the interior would be fine. Of course, then I start
> thinking of prions, but...

Two flaws in your theory...

1. Yes, the exterior could have contamination, which is why you
carefully trim a small amount off the exterior first before changing
cutting boards and knives if you're going to do a raw or nearly raw
preparation.

2. The exterior may be contaminated, but that contamination is at a
pretty low level and when you're grinding meat to immediately cook it is
irrelevant since it will not get any time to multiply to dangerous
levels on all that new surface area, unlike store ground meat which sits
ground and uncooked for hours-days.

The less of time for all the newly exposed surfaces to oxidize when you
grind meat fresh and cook it immediately is responsible in large part
for the much better taste.

In article >,
"Jean B." > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "brooklyn1" > wrote:
> >
> >>> mind you he taught me the eating pleasure of a blue steak.
> >> The interior of mammal muscle is sterile, with proper food handling there
> >> is
> >> no reason a steak can't be eaten dead raw... it's ground meat that
> >> requires
> >> more vigilence... if you grind your own meat you can eat raw burgers.
> >
> > Absolutely, totally and completely agree!!!
> > This is pure science.
>
> I disagree to some extent. If you get a cut of meat, the exterior
> could be contaminated. Thus, if you grind your own meat, you
> could have some of that contamination in it. Steaks, yes. Cook
> the exterior (assuming you haven't pricked, beaten, etc. the
> meat), and the interior would be fine. Of course, then I start
> thinking of prions, but...

Well, if I prepare steak tartare, I prepare it fresh and eat it right
away so the contamination is minimized. :-)
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.


Subscribe:

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> "brooklyn1" > wrote:
>
>
>>>mind you he taught me the eating pleasure of a blue steak.
>>
>>The interior of mammal muscle is sterile, with proper food handling there is
>>no reason a steak can't be eaten dead raw... it's ground meat that requires
>>more vigilence... if you grind your own meat you can eat raw burgers.
>
>
> Absolutely, totally and completely agree!!!
> This is pure science.


As i understand it dinner with the Khans in Mongolia could be a slice of
steak kept under the saddle of a horse while out for a days pillaging
and then eaten al fresco with out it ever getting any more 'cooked' than
would be expected from the body heat of the horse.
--
Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.

Domine, dirige nos.
Let the games begin!
http://www.dancingmice.net/Karn%20Evil%209.mp3

Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq. wrote:
> Omelet wrote:
>> In article >,
>> "brooklyn1" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> mind you he taught me the eating pleasure of a blue steak.
>>>
>>> The interior of mammal muscle is sterile, with proper food handling
>>> there is no reason a steak can't be eaten dead raw... it's ground
>>> meat that requires more vigilence... if you grind your own meat you
>>> can eat raw burgers.
>>
>>
>> Absolutely, totally and completely agree!!!
>> This is pure science.
>
>
> As i understand it dinner with the Khans in Mongolia could be a slice
> of steak kept under the saddle of a horse while out for a days
> pillaging and then eaten al fresco with out it ever getting any more
> 'cooked' than would be expected from the body heat of the horse.

Pheweeeeeeeeeeee stinkarama!!!!!!!!!!!!

On Jun 19, 11:24*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
> "sf" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > I got this in my email today. *Sheesh, if breaking those rules are
> > bad, I should be dead by this time.
> >http://www.eatingwell.com/health/hea...mmandments_of_...
>
> > --
> > I love cooking with wine.
> > Sometimes I even put it in the food.
>
> Amazing. *Nine out of ten and I'm still alive.
>
> I do, however, us common sense and keep things clean. *I'm also an advocate
> of using paper towels and the dishwasher. *I think they are factors in the
> lack of illness our family has had over the years.

I bet it has more to do with genetics.

--Bryan

In article >,
"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote:

> David wrote:
>
> > used to give his dog raw eggs, but never again
>
> Did you know that dogs are not adversely affected by salmonella the way
> people are?
>
> Bob

Not really Bob, though I have wondered why my dog doesn't get sick when
she digs up and eats a bone with meat on it that she buried weeks and
weeks ago

david

In article > ,
David Harmon > wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 12:31:50 GMT in rec.food.cooking, David
> > wrote,
> >"A thorough investigation by the NSW Food Authority found that the
> >source of the food poisoning was raw egg mayonnaise used in
> >Vietnamese-style pork and chicken rolls. The food was stored and
> >displayed at temperatures at leastble
>
> What does "double the temperature" mean? Degrees above absolute zero?

.....as per the quote "what health guidelines require"

probably need to be 4c or lower, so it would be 8c or higher

david - a different one

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 02:43:43 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>Please forgive me, but I doubt I'll give up my wood boards anytime
>soon...

I like my wood and bamboo too. I am not fond of the plastic boards I
have and use them very little... basically, they just take up space.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 02:46:46 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>I know I can't "fold" the wood boards, but it's honestly no big deal
>with sufficient knife handling skills. :-)

Rolling is as good as it gets with plastic and then you'd have to put
a rubber band around it. Well, I don't think they are flexible enough
to fold - mine are a couple of years old so maybe things have changed
since then.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Omelet > wrote in
news
> In article >,
> "Jean B." > wrote:

>>
>> I disagree to some extent. If you get a cut of meat, the exterior
>> could be contaminated. Thus, if you grind your own meat, you
>> could have some of that contamination in it. Steaks, yes. Cook
>> the exterior (assuming you haven't pricked, beaten, etc. the
>> meat), and the interior would be fine. Of course, then I start
>> thinking of prions, but...
>
> Well, if I prepare steak tartare, I prepare it fresh and eat it right
> away so the contamination is minimized. :-)

I think Jean is probably referring to contamination that has occurred prior
to you purchasing the meat, rather than contamination that occurs in your
own kitchen. Contamination of the meat surface can occur during the
butchering process if proper procedures aren't followed.

--
Rhonda Anderson
Cranebrook, NSW, Australia

Core of my heart, my country! Land of the rainbow gold,
For flood and fire and famine she pays us back threefold.
My Country, Dorothea MacKellar, 1904

On Jun 22, 5:50*am, Rhonda Anderson > wrote:
> Omelet > wrote innews >
> > In article >,
> > *"Jean B." > wrote:
>
> >> I disagree to some extent. *If you get a cut of meat, the exterior
> >> could be contaminated. *Thus, if you grind your own meat, you
> >> could have some of that contamination in it. *Steaks, yes. *Cook
> >> the exterior (assuming you haven't pricked, beaten, etc. the
> >> meat), and the interior would be fine. *Of course, then I start
> >> thinking of prions, but...
>
> > Well, if I prepare steak tartare, I prepare it fresh and eat it right
> > away so the contamination is minimized. :-)
>
> I think Jean is probably referring to contamination that has occurred prior
> to you purchasing the meat, rather than contamination that occurs in your
> own kitchen. Contamination of the meat surface can occur during the
> butchering process if proper procedures aren't followed.
>
> --
> Rhonda Anderson
> Cranebrook, NSW, Australia
>
> Core of my heart, my country! Land of the rainbow gold,
> For flood and fire and famine she pays us back threefold.
> * * * * My Country, Dorothea MacKellar, 1904

"Contamination" is always present, even if all food preparation safety
rules are followed. I took a college Microbiology class, and I can
never look at c\leaning up in my kitchen the same again!! IOW no
matter how many times I wash my dishrag in hot soapy water, I know I'm
just spreading the germs (bacteria) into a thinner more sparsely
populated sheet on my counters!!

All you can do is to minimize the growth and spread of bacteria. Keep
foods cold (or hot) as much as possible and keep food prep surfaces as
clean as possible. And eat particularly high risk foods as soon after
preparation as possible. Your stomach has a fantastic germ-killer in
it! HCl!!!

John Kuthe...

"Rhonda Anderson" ha scritto nel messaggio

> I think Jean is probably referring to contamination that has occurred
> prior > to you purchasing the meat, rather than contamination that occurs
> in your > own kitchen. Contamination of the meat surface can occur during
> the
> butchering process if proper procedures aren't followed.

And can be washed off prior to grinding or chopping.

"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 22, 5:50 am, Rhonda Anderson > wrote:
> Omelet > wrote
> innews >
> > In article >,
> > "Jean B." > wrote:
>
> >> I disagree to some extent. If you get a cut of meat, the exterior
> >> could be contaminated. Thus, if you grind your own meat, you
> >> could have some of that contamination in it. Steaks, yes. Cook
> >> the exterior (assuming you haven't pricked, beaten, etc. the
> >> meat), and the interior would be fine. Of course, then I start
> >> thinking of prions, but...
>
> > Well, if I prepare steak tartare, I prepare it fresh and eat it right
> > away so the contamination is minimized. :-)
>
> I think Jean is probably referring to contamination that has occurred
> prior
> to you purchasing the meat, rather than contamination that occurs in your
> own kitchen. Contamination of the meat surface can occur during the
> butchering process if proper procedures aren't followed.
>
> --
> Rhonda Anderson
> Cranebrook, NSW, Australia
>
> Core of my heart, my country! Land of the rainbow gold,
> For flood and fire and famine she pays us back threefold.
> My Country, Dorothea MacKellar, 1904

"Contamination" is always present, even if all food preparation safety
rules are followed. I took a college Microbiology class, and I can
never look at c\leaning up in my kitchen the same again!! IOW no
matter how many times I wash my dishrag in hot soapy water, I know I'm
just spreading the germs (bacteria) into a thinner more sparsely
populated sheet on my counters!!

All you can do is to minimize the growth and spread of bacteria. Keep
foods cold (or hot) as much as possible and keep food prep surfaces as
clean as possible. And eat particularly high risk foods as soon after
preparation as possible. Your stomach has a fantastic germ-killer in
it! HCl!!!

=============

That's not the issue... HCL aids in digestion, were it potent enough to kill
all the germs it would burn through your stomach. There are plenty of
bacteria in the intestines, nessesary bacteria for digestion (why do you
think farts and shit stinks). For the bacteria that can make one ill we
have an immune system. Normal folks don't need to obsess over keeping their
environment sterile... it's not possible to keep ones living quarters
sterile anyway. But all foods can be contaminated above safe levels when
purchased, hopefully you don't buy bulged cans, obviously moldy food, foods
reeking of a bad odor, slimy, etc. But most toxic food bacteria doesn't
emit an odor nor does that food even appear contaminated. It's usually only
cured meats, poultry, and ground meat which one needs to be concerned
because in those the offending bacteria multilies very rapidly. So even
when you grind your own meat you can't just storage it in the fridge, or by
the next day what you'll have is essentially mystery meat, okay, it won't
have the roach ground in but it will still become just as contamianted. As
soon as you grind meat at home cook it or freeze it. Another thing to
consider is that bacterior multiplies faster in the absence of air, so all
wrapped meat at the market becomes overly contaminated quickly but espcially
ground because of all that surface area. Freshly cut meat at the market has
little surface contamination, just watch those sell by dates... it's safer
to buy cuts of meat from a butcher that doesn't pre wrap but there aren't
many anymore and of those that exist they are expensive. I bet few of yoose
know that the plastic wrap used by meat departments is permeable, it allows
air to pass so that surface bacteria growth is slowed considerablty, doesn't
help much with ground meat. Still the only way to know what and who is in
ground meat is to grind your own... and then consume or freeze
immediately... there isn't much point in grinding your own meat if it's
gonna sit in your fridge over night. Leave the meat in your fridge whole
until just before you're ready to cook it, only takes like one minute to
grind three pounds of meat. And it's pretty simple to rid it of most
surface bacteria with a quick rinse and a good coating of salt and a half
hour in the fridge, rinse it off and grind... should also buy the largest
hunk of meat you can because it will have the least surface area to volume.
With poultry one should always salt, rinse, and then douche with fresh
lemon/lime juice. For many reasons it's far safer to only buy whole
poultry, never buy cut up poultry... don't even ask your butcher to cut up
your poultry, their surfaces are not very clean, they don't wash their hands
between chores, and they clean their knife by wiping it on their filthy coat
or with an even filthier schmatah. Stupidmarket meat departments are steam
cleaned by outside contractors once every 24 hours, usually in the middle of
the night... it's best to buy meat as early in the day as possible.

On Jun 22, 2:49*pm, "brooklyn1" > wrote:
> "John Kuthe" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Jun 22, 5:50 am, Rhonda Anderson > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Omelet > wrote
> > innews
>
> > > In article >,
> > > "Jean B." > wrote:
>
> > >> I disagree to some extent. If you get a cut of meat, the exterior
> > >> could be contaminated. Thus, if you grind your own meat, you
> > >> could have some of that contamination in it. Steaks, yes. Cook
> > >> the exterior (assuming you haven't pricked, beaten, etc. the
> > >> meat), and the interior would be fine. Of course, then I start
> > >> thinking of prions, but...
>
> > > Well, if I prepare steak tartare, I prepare it fresh and eat it right
> > > away so the contamination is minimized. :-)
>
> > I think Jean is probably referring to contamination that has occurred
> > prior
> > to you purchasing the meat, rather than contamination that occurs in your
> > own kitchen. Contamination of the meat surface can occur during the
> > butchering process if proper procedures aren't followed.
>
> > --
> > Rhonda Anderson
> > Cranebrook, NSW, Australia
>
> > Core of my heart, my country! Land of the rainbow gold,
> > For flood and fire and famine she pays us back threefold.
> > My Country, Dorothea MacKellar, 1904
>
> "Contamination" is always present, even if all food preparation safety
> rules are followed. I took a college Microbiology class, and I can
> never look at c\leaning up in my kitchen the same again!! IOW no
> matter how many times I wash my dishrag in hot soapy water, I know I'm
> just spreading the germs (bacteria) into a thinner more sparsely
> populated sheet on my counters!!
>
> All you can do is to minimize the growth and spread of bacteria. Keep
> foods cold (or hot) as much as possible and keep food prep surfaces as
> clean as possible. And eat particularly high risk foods as soon after
> preparation as possible. Your stomach has a fantastic germ-killer in
> it! HCl!!!
>
> =============
>
> That's not the issue... HCL aids in digestion, were it potent enough to kill
> all the germs it would burn through your stomach....

And it does sometimes, It's called an ulcer!

But Mother Nature in Her Infinite Wisdom has provided us with a
protective mucus system to protect the protein-based wall of our
stomach, as well as a very ingenious secretion method of excreting the
HCl so as to minimize the denaturing effect of the HCl on the proteins
of our stomach walls.

But it is a very good disinfectant as well.

John Kuthe...

In article >,
"Giusi" > wrote:

> "Rhonda Anderson" ha scritto nel messaggio
>
> > I think Jean is probably referring to contamination that has occurred
> > prior > to you purchasing the meat, rather than contamination that occurs
> > in your > own kitchen. Contamination of the meat surface can occur during
> > the
> > butchering process if proper procedures aren't followed.
>
> And can be washed off prior to grinding or chopping.

Up to a point. ;-) IMHO ground beef is best and safest if either frozen
or used shortly after grinding/chopping.
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.


Subscribe:

In article >,
"brooklyn1" > wrote:

> With poultry one should always salt, rinse, and then douche with fresh
> lemon/lime juice.

Vinegar is a good meat wash too if you are truly worried about surface
contamination. I just give poultry a good hot water rinse.
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.


Subscribe:

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "brooklyn1" > wrote:
>
>> With poultry one should always salt, rinse, and then douche with fresh
>> lemon/lime juice.
>
> Vinegar is a good meat wash too if you are truly worried about surface
> contamination.

Vinegar works too but it leaves an unpleasant after taste and is a little
too potent, it actually cooks the flesh... for my money citrus is better...
not only do I squeeze the juice all over inside and out I also place the
squeezed rinds inside the cavity, adds good flavor to poultry... often I
push thin slices under the skin too.

>I just give poultry a good hot water rinse.

Cold is better, hot water opens the intercellular spaces and spreads any
surface contamination inside... cold water, like fridge temp, further siezes
the flesh so schmutz can be flushed off without it permeating the
interior... salt and acid also siezes the flesh. When you jump into cold
water your flesh seizes too... don't your nipples get hard... I know cold
water siezes my peepee! LOL

In article >,
"brooklyn1" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
> > In article >,
> > "brooklyn1" > wrote:
> >
> >> With poultry one should always salt, rinse, and then douche with fresh
> >> lemon/lime juice.
> >
> > Vinegar is a good meat wash too if you are truly worried about surface
> > contamination.
>
> Vinegar works too but it leaves an unpleasant after taste and is a little
> too potent, it actually cooks the flesh... for my money citrus is better...
> not only do I squeeze the juice all over inside and out I also place the
> squeezed rinds inside the cavity, adds good flavor to poultry... often I
> push thin slices under the skin too.

I love lemon with poultry. :-) I'm sure you saw the last roasted
chicken recipe I posted using lemon and sliced limes. I spatcocked the
bird tho' for more even roasting.

>
> >I just give poultry a good hot water rinse.
>
> Cold is better, hot water opens the intercellular spaces and spreads any
> surface contamination inside... cold water, like fridge temp, further siezes
> the flesh so schmutz can be flushed off without it permeating the
> interior... salt and acid also siezes the flesh.

I'll keep that in mind.

> When you jump into cold
> water your flesh seizes too... don't your nipples get hard... I know cold
> water siezes my peepee! LOL

Been awhile since I've been skinny dipping but iirc, all men are "equal"
in cold water. <g>
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.


Subscribe:

On Jun 18, 11:26*pm, "Bob Terwilliger" >
wrote:
> sf wrote:
> > I got this in my email today. *Sheesh, if breaking those rules are
> > bad, I should be dead by this time.
> >http://www.eatingwell.com/health/hea...mmandments_of_...
>
> I routinely eat runny eggs, I cook beef, veal, and lamb to an internal
> temperature of about 135°F, and pork to an internal temperature of 140°F. I
> can't say that I check the temperature of reheated leftovers, but I doubt
> that it even comes close to 165°F. Sometimes I don't reheat them at all..
>
> Bob

Life is too short to be taking my food's temperature! Haven't got a
refrigerator thermometer, either. I do wash my hands and I wash my
cutting boards between uses, and I wash my dishes, countertops and my
dining table regularly. But... I have two cutting boards. I use the
little one all the time for everything. Definitely clean it between
uses but come on....We survived the whole nineteenth century without
much refrigeration or sanitation to speak of.

I adore raw chocolate chip cookie dough--ain't dead, yet. Well done
hamburgers are an abomination, same with well done steak or lamb. I
do cook pork and poultry thoroughly as I find undercooked poultry
revolting as to flavor and texture. And I'm no fan of trichinosis.

Melissa

On Jun 23, 1:19*am, Shiral > wrote:
> On Jun 18, 11:26*pm, "Bob Terwilliger" >
> wrote:
>
> > sf wrote:
> > > I got this in my email today. *Sheesh, if breaking those rules are
> > > bad, I should be dead by this time.
> > >http://www.eatingwell.com/health/hea...mmandments_of_....
>
> > I routinely eat runny eggs, I cook beef, veal, and lamb to an internal
> > temperature of about 135°F, and pork to an internal temperature of 140°F. I
> > can't say that I check the temperature of reheated leftovers, but I doubt
> > that it even comes close to 165°F. Sometimes I don't reheat them at all.
>
> > Bob
>
> Life is too short to be taking my food's temperature! Haven't got a
> refrigerator thermometer, either. *I do wash my hands and I wash my
> cutting boards between uses, and I wash my dishes, countertops and my
> dining table regularly. But... I have two cutting boards. I *use the
> little one all the time for everything. Definitely clean it between
> uses but come on....We survived the whole nineteenth century without
> much refrigeration or sanitation to speak of.
>
> I adore raw chocolate chip cookie dough--ain't dead, yet. Well done
> hamburgers are an abomination, same with well done steak or lamb.

I just finished a half eaten steak that sat out from about 5 pm to 2
am, and it seemed fine to me. More than fine, divine. It had been
grilled rare, well seared over briquets (I had a coupon making them
very cheap) with added cherry wood.

> I do cook pork and poultry thoroughly as I find undercooked poultry
> revolting as to flavor and texture.

Chicken and turkey I cook pretty thoroughly, duck, sometimes a little
less so. Pork, well I often leave it pink if making it only for
myself, and then only the lean cuts.

> And I'm no fan of trichinosis.

I don't think there's trichinosis in the pork in First World countries
anymore, is there?
>
> Melissa

--Bryan