"brooklyn1" > wrote in
:


> Another thing to consider is that bacterior multiplies faster in the
> absence of air, so all wrapped meat at the market becomes overly
> contaminated quickly but espcially ground because of all that surface
> area.
>

Not all bacteria will multiply faster in the absence of air. It depends on
whether they are obligate aerobes (must have oxygen to survive), obligate
anaerobes (die in the presence of oxygen) or facultative
anaerobes/facultative aerobes (can grow both in the presence or absence of
oxygen). (I actually remember something from micro class many years ago!)

Examples in foodborne pathogens (not necessarily meat related) -
Escherichia coli and Salmonella are both facultative anaerobes so will
multiply in the presence or absence of oxygen. Clostridium botulinum (the
organism that produces the botulism toxin) is an obligate anaerobe.

--
Rhonda Anderson
Cranebrook, NSW, Australia

Core of my heart, my country! Land of the rainbow gold,
For flood and fire and famine she pays us back threefold.
My Country, Dorothea MacKellar, 1904

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:19:38 -0700 (PDT), Shiral wrote:

> On Jun 18, 11:26*pm, "Bob Terwilliger" >
> wrote:
>> sf wrote:
>>> I got this in my email today. *Sheesh, if breaking those rules are
>>> bad, I should be dead by this time.
>>>http://www.eatingwell.com/health/hea...mmandments_of_...
>>
>> I routinely eat runny eggs, I cook beef, veal, and lamb to an internal
>> temperature of about 135°F, and pork to an internal temperature of 140°F. I
>> can't say that I check the temperature of reheated leftovers, but I doubt
>> that it even comes close to 165°F. Sometimes I don't reheat them at all.
>>
>> Bob
>
> Life is too short to be taking my food's temperature! Haven't got a
> refrigerator thermometer, either. I do wash my hands and I wash my
> cutting boards between uses, and I wash my dishes, countertops and my
> dining table regularly. But... I have two cutting boards. I use the
> little one all the time for everything. Definitely clean it between
> uses but come on....We survived the whole nineteenth century without
> much refrigeration or sanitation to speak of.
>
> I adore raw chocolate chip cookie dough--ain't dead, yet. Well done
> hamburgers are an abomination, same with well done steak or lamb. I
> do cook pork and poultry thoroughly as I find undercooked poultry
> revolting as to flavor and texture. And I'm no fan of trichinosis.
>
> Melissa

you're unlikely to get trichinosis in the u.s. unless you eat bear meat.

Infection was once very common and usually caused by ingestion of
undercooked pork. However, infection is now relatively rare. During
1997-2001, an average of 12 cases per year were reported. The number of
cases has decreased because of legislation prohibiting the feeding of
raw-meat garbage to hogs, commercial and home freezing of pork, and the
public awareness of the danger of eating raw or undercooked pork products.
Cases are less commonly associated with pork products and more often
associated with eating raw or undercooked wild game meats.

<http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/trichinosis/factsht_trichinosis.htm#common>

your pal,
blake

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 00:43:51 GMT, brooklyn1 wrote:

> When you jump into cold
> water your flesh seizes too... don't your nipples get hard... I know cold
> water siezes my peepee! LOL

how can you tell the difference without a micrometer?

blake

> how can you tell the difference without a micrometer?
>
> blake

And how can *you* tell, with-out having to reply to something he
says.... <another Sigh>

Bob

Rhonda Anderson wrote:
>
> "brooklyn1" > wrote in
> :
>
> > Another thing to consider is that bacterior multiplies faster in the
> > absence of air, so all wrapped meat at the market becomes overly
> > contaminated quickly but espcially ground because of all that surface
> > area.
> >
>
> Not all bacteria will multiply faster in the absence of air. It depends on
> whether they are obligate aerobes (must have oxygen to survive), obligate
> anaerobes (die in the presence of oxygen) or facultative
> anaerobes/facultative aerobes (can grow both in the presence or absence of
> oxygen). (I actually remember something from micro class many years ago!)

LOL very good! But you forgot the aerotolerant anaerobes (they can
survive in oxygen but don't use it for growth) and the microaerophiles
(prefer low oxygen concentrations)


Clostridum intestinale, a possible coloniser of the human gut, is an
aerotolerant anaerobe.
Helicobacter pylori, a likely cause of stomach ulcers in humans, is a
microaerophile.

But you knew that didn't you


>
> Examples in foodborne pathogens (not necessarily meat related) -
> Escherichia coli and Salmonella are both facultative anaerobes so will
> multiply in the presence or absence of oxygen. Clostridium botulinum (the
> organism that produces the botulism toxin) is an obligate anaerobe.
>
> --
> Rhonda Anderson
> Cranebrook, NSW, Australia
>
> Core of my heart, my country! Land of the rainbow gold,
> For flood and fire and famine she pays us back threefold.
> My Country, Dorothea MacKellar, 1904

On Jun 23, 6:46*pm, Arri London > wrote:
> Rhonda Anderson wrote:
>
> > "brooklyn1" > wrote in
> :
>
> > > *Another thing to consider is that bacterior multiplies faster in the
> > > absence of air, so all wrapped meat at the market becomes overly
> > > contaminated quickly but espcially ground because of all that surface
> > > area.
>
> > Not all bacteria will multiply faster in the absence of air. It depends on
> > whether they are obligate aerobes (must have oxygen to survive), obligate
> > anaerobes (die in the presence of oxygen) or facultative
> > anaerobes/facultative aerobes (can grow both in the presence or absence of
> > oxygen). (I actually remember something from micro class many years ago!)
>
> LOL very good! But you forgot the aerotolerant anaerobes (they can
> survive in oxygen but don't use it for growth) and the microaerophiles
> (prefer low oxygen concentrations)
>
> Clostridum intestinale, a possible coloniser of the human gut, is an
> aerotolerant anaerobe.
> Helicobacter pylori, a likely cause of stomach ulcers in humans, is a
> microaerophile.
>
> But you knew that didn't you
>
>
>
> > Examples in foodborne pathogens (not necessarily meat related) -
> > Escherichia coli and Salmonella are both facultative anaerobes so will
> > multiply in the presence or absence of oxygen. Clostridium botulinum (the
> > organism that produces the botulism toxin) is an obligate anaerobe.
>
> > --
> > Rhonda Anderson
> > Cranebrook, NSW, Australia
>
> > Core of my heart, my country! Land of the rainbow gold,
> > For flood and fire and famine she pays us back threefold.
> > * * * * My Country, Dorothea MacKellar, 1904
>
>

Great! So we've got bacteria that prefer O2 or not, and some it likks
and come the lack of O2 kills.

How many survive a pH of 3 to 4?

John Kuthe...

Arri London > wrote in :


>
> LOL very good! But you forgot the aerotolerant anaerobes (they can
> survive in oxygen but don't use it for growth) and the microaerophiles
> (prefer low oxygen concentrations)

I did at that - that micro class was a very long time ago.

>
> Clostridum intestinale, a possible coloniser of the human gut, is an
> aerotolerant anaerobe.
> Helicobacter pylori, a likely cause of stomach ulcers in humans, is a
> microaerophile.
>
> But you knew that didn't you
>

No - as I tell people at work, the rumour that I know everything is
unfounded :-) I did know that Helicobacter pylori was associated with
ulcers but did not know it was a microaerophile.

I like to learn something new every day, so thanks Arri :-)


--
Rhonda Anderson
Cranebrook, NSW, Australia

Core of my heart, my country! Land of the rainbow gold,
For flood and fire and famine she pays us back threefold.
My Country, Dorothea MacKellar, 1904

Ophelia wrote:
> Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq. wrote:
>
>>Omelet wrote:
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> "brooklyn1" > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>mind you he taught me the eating pleasure of a blue steak.
>>>>
>>>>The interior of mammal muscle is sterile, with proper food handling
>>>>there is no reason a steak can't be eaten dead raw... it's ground
>>>>meat that requires more vigilence... if you grind your own meat you
>>>>can eat raw burgers.
>>>
>>>
>>>Absolutely, totally and completely agree!!!
>>>This is pure science.
>>
>>
>>As i understand it dinner with the Khans in Mongolia could be a slice
>>of steak kept under the saddle of a horse while out for a days
>>pillaging and then eaten al fresco with out it ever getting any more
>>'cooked' than would be expected from the body heat of the horse.
>
>
> Pheweeeeeeeeeeee stinkarama!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>

Given the hygienic practices of nomadic peoples in a semi dessert
environment, aroma would be the least of my complaints about that
particular dish

Which, from what i have read is considered to this day an rather obscure
but well liked regional delicacy. Though i have to agree, a sweaty
horse is just about one of the worst smell i have encountered.

Now days, according to the National Geographic, it is not terribly
unusual to find a small solar powered microwave in a yurt, along with
various DVD players and cell phones & etc.

Routine bathing is still not a high priority but the locals live a life
now of extraordinary abundance, at least compared to as little as 50
years ago.

Eco - tourism and Shamanic tourism are bringing a lot of money to the
Mongolian nomads. Live in a yurt with the locals for a week, only $10,000!
--
Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.

Domine, dirige nos.
Let the games begin!
http://www.dancingmice.net/Karn%20Evil%209.mp3

John Kuthe wrote:
>
> On Jun 23, 6:46 pm, Arri London > wrote:
> > Rhonda Anderson wrote:
> >
> > > "brooklyn1" > wrote in
> > :
> >
> > > > Another thing to consider is that bacterior multiplies faster in the
> > > > absence of air, so all wrapped meat at the market becomes overly
> > > > contaminated quickly but espcially ground because of all that surface
> > > > area.
> >
> > > Not all bacteria will multiply faster in the absence of air. It depends on
> > > whether they are obligate aerobes (must have oxygen to survive), obligate
> > > anaerobes (die in the presence of oxygen) or facultative
> > > anaerobes/facultative aerobes (can grow both in the presence or absence of
> > > oxygen). (I actually remember something from micro class many years ago!)
> >
> > LOL very good! But you forgot the aerotolerant anaerobes (they can
> > survive in oxygen but don't use it for growth) and the microaerophiles
> > (prefer low oxygen concentrations)
> >
> > Clostridum intestinale, a possible coloniser of the human gut, is an
> > aerotolerant anaerobe.
> > Helicobacter pylori, a likely cause of stomach ulcers in humans, is a
> > microaerophile.
> >
> > But you knew that didn't you
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
>
> Great! So we've got bacteria that prefer O2 or not, and some it likks
> and come the lack of O2 kills.

A very adaptable lot indeed. They predate us and will out-survive us.


>
> How many survive a pH of 3 to 4?
>
> John Kuthe...

The Lactobacilli, Streptococci and Leuconostocs are acid tolerant; but
they are useful in food fermentations. There are others. Obviously the
Helicobacter pylori critters are acid tolerant: the pH of stomach acid
is 1 to 3.

Rhonda Anderson wrote:
>
> Arri London > wrote in :
>
> >
> > LOL very good! But you forgot the aerotolerant anaerobes (they can
> > survive in oxygen but don't use it for growth) and the microaerophiles
> > (prefer low oxygen concentrations)
>
> I did at that - that micro class was a very long time ago.

LOL so was mine, but worked for a while as a microbiologist.
>
> >
> > Clostridum intestinale, a possible coloniser of the human gut, is an
> > aerotolerant anaerobe.
> > Helicobacter pylori, a likely cause of stomach ulcers in humans, is a
> > microaerophile.
> >
> > But you knew that didn't you
> >
>
> No - as I tell people at work, the rumour that I know everything is
> unfounded :-) I did know that Helicobacter pylori was associated with
> ulcers but did not know it was a microaerophile.

And now you do. Impress your colleagues tomorrow
>
> I like to learn something new every day, so thanks Arri :-)
>

YVW. Have learnt a lot from you too :P
A mutual admiration society, no?

On Jun 19, 1:11 am, sf > wrote:
> I got this in my email today. Sheesh, if breaking those rules are
> bad, I should be dead by this time.http://www.eatingwell.com/health/hea...mmandments_of_...
>
> --
> I love cooking with wine.
> Sometimes I even put it in the food.

I think I've broken 4 of them, is all. I'm pretty careful. I don't
know that "sliced fruit or veggies" are dangerously ready to grow
bacteria if left out - often, veggie trays at functions are left out
for a long time and people don't get sick. If there's dip involved,
of course that can't be left out - unless it's strictly a flavored oil
or something.

N.