Hello All!

Today, I bought some blueberries and I discovered that an "American Dry
Pint" was 551ml and "1 Chopine Américaine Sèche" !



--


James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

James Silverton wrote:
>
> Hello All!
>
> Today, I bought some blueberries and I discovered that an "American Dry
> Pint" was 551ml and "1 Chopine Américaine Sèche" !

Yep, that US conversion to metric is moving right along... at the pace
of a dead snail in super glue... might be complete in another 100 years
or so...

Pete wrote on Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:05:02 -0500:


> James Silverton wrote:
>>
>> Hello All!
>>
>> Today, I bought some blueberries and I discovered that an
>> "American Dry Pint" was 551ml and "1 Chopine Américaine
>> Sèche" !


>Yep, that US conversion to metric is moving right along... at the pace
>of a dead snail in super glue... might be complete in another 100 years
>or so...

Well, I won't hold onto my hat since the Metric system has been *legal*
here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a "Chopine" :-)

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

James Silverton wrote:
> Well, I won't hold onto my hat since the Metric system has been *legal*
> here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a "Chopine" :-)

It may be legal, young fella, but it isn't American!

From the Eddie Izzard skit about Americans and the metric system: "And
you got rid of it! You had a look at it… you sort of played with the
metric system like this (mimes stirring up something at arm's length,
then throwing it away). And all because of that this little machine went
'Zwoom'. All the little microbes and all the little technological things
in that thing going to Mars going, 'Wasn't that our turning?'"

Pennyaline wrote:
>James Silverton wrote:
>>Well, I won't hold onto my hat since theMetric systemhas been *legal*
>>here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a "Chopine" :-)
>
>It may be legal, young fella, but it isn't American!

There are US laws that forbid metrication. US Federal law (the FPLA,
for example) forbids metric-only labels on most prepackaged things you
see in the supermarket.

"pat" > wrote in message
...
> Pennyaline wrote:
>>James Silverton wrote:
>>>Well, I won't hold onto my hat since theMetric systemhas been *legal*
>>>here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a "Chopine" :-)
>>
>>It may be legal, young fella, but it isn't American!
>
> There are US laws that forbid metrication. US Federal law (the FPLA,
> for example) forbids metric-only labels on most prepackaged things you
> see in the supermarket.

Probably because too many people would not know how to easily do the
conversion or think in metric terms. Bacon has always been a pound and thus
will remain so, or something like that. 500 grams or a half kilo would make
their brain hurt.

The two reasons I've always run into is a large percentage just don't want
to change and are afraid, another big group thinks the US system is
superior, just because it is the US system. We are in a world economy, like
it or not, and if we used metric, it would be easier for our country to deal
wit the rest of the world. The Hubble telescope would not have been screwed
up.

I've been using metric at work for 20 years now. It is easy and sensible,
and the choice of most everyone there now that they've used it.

In article >,
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:

> "pat" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Pennyaline wrote:
> >>James Silverton wrote:
> >>>Well, I won't hold onto my hat since theMetric systemhas been *legal*
> >>>here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a "Chopine" :-)
> >>
> >>It may be legal, young fella, but it isn't American!
> >
> > There are US laws that forbid metrication. US Federal law (the FPLA,
> > for example) forbids metric-only labels on most prepackaged things you
> > see in the supermarket.
>
> Probably because too many people would not know how to easily do the
> conversion or think in metric terms. Bacon has always been a pound and thus
> will remain so, or something like that. 500 grams or a half kilo would make
> their brain hurt.
>
> The two reasons I've always run into is a large percentage just don't want
> to change and are afraid, another big group thinks the US system is
> superior, just because it is the US system. We are in a world economy, like
> it or not, and if we used metric, it would be easier for our country to deal
> wit the rest of the world. The Hubble telescope would not have been screwed
> up.
>
> I've been using metric at work for 20 years now. It is easy and sensible,
> and the choice of most everyone there now that they've used it.

We have too and I like it at work, but it'd take some getting used to at
the grocery store. ;-) For many not familiar with it tho', it would be
painful.

But only at first...
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.


Subscribe:

"pat" > wrote in message
...
> Pennyaline wrote:
>>James Silverton wrote:
>>>Well, I won't hold onto my hat since theMetric systemhas been *legal*
>>>here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a "Chopine" :-)
>>
>>It may be legal, young fella, but it isn't American!
>
> There are US laws that forbid metrication. US Federal law (the FPLA,
> for example) forbids metric-only labels on most prepackaged things you
> see in the supermarket.

Hmmm! How backward!

On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 04:27:42 -0700 (PDT), pat wrote:

> Pennyaline wrote:
>>James Silverton wrote:
>>>Well, I won't hold onto my hat since theMetric systemhas been *legal*
>>>here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a "Chopine" :-)
>>
>>It may be legal, young fella, but it isn't American!
>
> There are US laws that forbid metrication. US Federal law (the FPLA,
> for example) forbids metric-only labels on most prepackaged things you
> see in the supermarket.

i think it's more that they require imperial measurements, not that they're
forbidding metric.

but maybe the GOP members of the house will get a wild hair up their asses
and try to do exactly that.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:44:56 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> "pat" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Pennyaline wrote:
>>>James Silverton wrote:
>>>>Well, I won't hold onto my hat since theMetric systemhas been *legal*
>>>>here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a "Chopine" :-)
>>>
>>>It may be legal, young fella, but it isn't American!
>>
>> There are US laws that forbid metrication. US Federal law (the FPLA,
>> for example) forbids metric-only labels on most prepackaged things you
>> see in the supermarket.
>
> Probably because too many people would not know how to easily do the
> conversion or think in metric terms. Bacon has always been a pound and thus
> will remain so, or something like that. 500 grams or a half kilo would make
> their brain hurt.
>
> The two reasons I've always run into is a large percentage just don't want
> to change and are afraid, another big group thinks the US system is
> superior, just because it is the US system. We are in a world economy, like
> it or not, and if we used metric, it would be easier for our country to deal
> wit the rest of the world. The Hubble telescope would not have been screwed
> up.
>
> I've been using metric at work for 20 years now. It is easy and sensible,
> and the choice of most everyone there now that they've used it.

i'm not that old, but i think i would spend the rest of my life thinking,
'o.k., a half kilo is about a pound.'

but at least the dopers out there know it's 28 grams to the ounce.


your pal,
blake

On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 06:51:39 -0600, graham wrote:

> "pat" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Pennyaline wrote:
>>>James Silverton wrote:
>>>>Well, I won't hold onto my hat since theMetric systemhas been *legal*
>>>>here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a "Chopine" :-)
>>>
>>>It may be legal, young fella, but it isn't American!
>>
>> There are US laws that forbid metrication. US Federal law (the FPLA,
>> for example) forbids metric-only labels on most prepackaged things you
>> see in the supermarket.
>
> Hmmm! How backward!

what?! USA number one!!!

your pal,
blake

"Omelet" wrote

> We have too and I like it at work, but it'd take some getting used to at
> the grocery store. ;-) For many not familiar with it tho', it would be
> painful.

That's one of the challanges new military had in Sasebo if it was their
first time overseas. Translating to metrics when it was that old 'tried and
true' USA based recipe 'Mom sent'. Just 'how much to buy' from the shop
keeper was a challange to some at the start. They could handle the idea
that 500g is about a lb, but would get confused when things were sold as 'x'
yen per 100g.

> But only at first...

Correct. It's not that hard when doing dry weights. It's translating USA
recipes which are normally 'volume based' into weight measures then back
that gets folks.

A common recipe may say : Take a cup of cubed cooked potatoes... (ok, in
english thats real easy). How many 100g alotments do you need to get in raw
potatoes? (answer, about 120g raw will yield that after you clean, peel and
chop but depends on how you peel and the variety used. They have a lot of
variety there on potatoes with only the classic Idaho missing).

How about this recipe: 1/4 cup grated cheese.... (hehehe, like any sane
person, get a block and save the rest, this one is easy).

Sure you can cheat with a kitchen scale if you also have how much the item
should weigh, but hate to tell you how 'chiklit small' their kitchens out in
town can be. Room for a weigh scale? You gotta be kidding!

LOL, that reminds me of the time Don got a frozen pizza. Normal USA
Freschetta (sp?). It didnt fit in the oven. Had to cut it in half and cook
it angled in 2 parts. ;-)

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 06:51:39 -0600, graham wrote:
>
>> "pat" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Pennyaline wrote:
>>>>James Silverton wrote:
>>>>>Well, I won't hold onto my hat since theMetric systemhas been *legal*
>>>>>here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a "Chopine" :-)
>>>>
>>>>It may be legal, young fella, but it isn't American!
>>>
>>> There are US laws that forbid metrication. US Federal law (the FPLA,
>>> for example) forbids metric-only labels on most prepackaged things you
>>> see in the supermarket.
>>
>> Hmmm! How backward!
>
> what?! USA number one!!!
>

In what? Adulation of celebrities?

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:44:56 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> "pat" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Pennyaline wrote:
>>>>James Silverton wrote:
>>>>>Well, I won't hold onto my hat since theMetric systemhas been *legal*
>>>>>here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a "Chopine" :-)
>>>>
>>>>It may be legal, young fella, but it isn't American!
>>>
>>> There are US laws that forbid metrication. US Federal law (the FPLA,
>>> for example) forbids metric-only labels on most prepackaged things you
>>> see in the supermarket.
>>
>> Probably because too many people would not know how to easily do the
>> conversion or think in metric terms. Bacon has always been a pound and
>> thus
>> will remain so, or something like that. 500 grams or a half kilo would
>> make
>> their brain hurt.
>>
>> The two reasons I've always run into is a large percentage just don't
>> want
>> to change and are afraid, another big group thinks the US system is
>> superior, just because it is the US system. We are in a world economy,
>> like
>> it or not, and if we used metric, it would be easier for our country to
>> deal
>> wit the rest of the world. The Hubble telescope would not have been
>> screwed
>> up.
>>
>> I've been using metric at work for 20 years now. It is easy and
>> sensible,
>> and the choice of most everyone there now that they've used it.
>
> i'm not that old, but i think i would spend the rest of my life thinking,
> 'o.k., a half kilo is about a pound.'
>

That only happens if both systems are used together. If the US went metric
overnight, i.e., with no transition period, it wouldn't be long before
people thought in metric.

On Sun 12 Jul 2009 07:48:14a, graham told us...

>
> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:44:56 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>> "pat" > wrote in message
>>> .
>>> ..
>>>> Pennyaline wrote:
>>>>>James Silverton wrote:
>>>>>>Well, I won't hold onto my hat since theMetric systemhas been
>>>>>>*legal* here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a
>>>>>>"Chopine" :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>It may be legal, young fella, but it isn't American!
>>>>
>>>> There are US laws that forbid metrication. US Federal law (the FPLA,
>>>> for example) forbids metric-only labels on most prepackaged things
>>>> you see in the supermarket.
>>>
>>> Probably because too many people would not know how to easily do the
>>> conversion or think in metric terms. Bacon has always been a pound and
>>> thus will remain so, or something like that. 500 grams or a half kilo
>>> would make their brain hurt.
>>>
>>> The two reasons I've always run into is a large percentage just don't
>>> want to change and are afraid, another big group thinks the US system
>>> is superior, just because it is the US system. We are in a world
>>> economy, like it or not, and if we used metric, it would be easier for
>>> our country to deal wit the rest of the world. The Hubble telescope
>>> would not have been screwed up.
>>>
>>> I've been using metric at work for 20 years now. It is easy and
>>> sensible, and the choice of most everyone there now that they've used
>>> it.
>>
>> i'm not that old, but i think i would spend the rest of my life
>> thinking, 'o.k., a half kilo is about a pound.'
>>
>
> That only happens if both systems are used together. If the US went
> metric overnight, i.e., with no transition period, it wouldn't be long
> before people thought in metric.
>
>
>

Among other things, if you cook and use cookbooks, you'd be constantly
converting forever...unless you threw them all out and replaced them. Most
of my US cookbooks do not contain metric measurements.

Having said that, I have quite a few cookbooks from the UK and Europe. I
made a point of buying measuring equipment for that purpose, as well as a
scale that weighs in both ounces and grams.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If junk food is the devil, then a sweet orange is as scripture.
~Audrey Foris

Wayne wrote on Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:03:50 GMT:

>> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> That only happens if both systems are used together. If the
>> US went metric overnight, i.e., with no transition period, it
>> wouldn't be long before people thought in metric.
>>
> Among other things, if you cook and use cookbooks, you'd be
> constantly converting forever...unless you threw them all out
> and replaced them. Most of my US cookbooks do not contain
> metric measurements.

> Having said that, I have quite a few cookbooks from the UK and
> Europe. I made a point of buying measuring equipment for that
> purpose, as well as a scale that weighs in both ounces and
> grams.

If the US went metric contrary to the will of the public, several
politicians would get themselves elected on a pledge to reverse the
decision.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "pat" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Pennyaline wrote:
>>>James Silverton wrote:
>>>>Well, I won't hold onto my hat since theMetric systemhas been *legal*
>>>>here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a "Chopine" :-)
>>>
>>>It may be legal, young fella, but it isn't American!
>>
>> There are US laws that forbid metrication. US Federal law (the FPLA,
>> for example) forbids metric-only labels on most prepackaged things you
>> see in the supermarket.
>
> Probably because too many people would not know how to easily do the
> conversion or think in metric terms. Bacon has always been a pound and
> thus will remain so, or something like that. 500 grams or a half kilo
> would make their brain hurt.
>
> The two reasons I've always run into is a large percentage just don't want
> to change and are afraid, another big group thinks the US system is
> superior, just because it is the US system. We are in a world economy,
> like it or not, and if we used metric, it would be easier for our country
> to deal wit the rest of the world. The Hubble telescope would not have
> been screwed up.
>
> I've been using metric at work for 20 years now. It is easy and sensible,
> and the choice of most everyone there now that they've used it.
>
The key obstacle is with interpolation, it's impossible for anyone to
interpolate acurately between different measuring systems. Once one has
been exposed to a particular measurement system from birth all others will
forever be foreign. You may use metric (we all do to a degree) but you use
it the same way say native Spanish speaking folks learn English as a second
language... metric will never become as second nature for you as English
measurement. If your car's speedometer wasn't marked side by side in MPH
and KPH there'd be no way you could come close to estimating your KPH, but
I'd bet you could tell even before looking that you're doing 60MPH in a
55MPH zone.. your toe would be easing off the gas even before you saw the
man in the big hat in your rear view mirror, and even though you realized he
wasn't gunning for anyone 5 miles over you'd be holding your breath till he
passed. Don't tell me you can go outdoors right now without looking at a
thermometer and guesstimate the temperature in Celsius, no friggin' way...
you'd be scratchin' your head screwin' up your eyes, and even though you can
come within 5º F you'd need to go look for a conversion table. Quick, how
many inches is a 27 mm wrench... I'm positive you'd have to look it up, or
at least calculate millimeters in your head. I happen to know that one
because I had to buy a 27 mm wrench for the bolt that holds on my big mower
blades... it's nearly 1 1/16" but not quite. I've used all kinds of metric
tools for more than 40 years but still need to double check... I can eyeball
a 1/4"-20 Allen screw at 20 feet but I will always need to measure metric
hardware. I can slice 1 pound of balogna +/- one slice just by heft in my
hand, but the closest I can interpolate a Kilo of balogna is to figure near
abouts the heft of a 36 C cup. LOL

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
>
> Among other things, if you cook and use cookbooks, you'd be constantly
> converting forever...unless you threw them all out and replaced them.
> Most
> of my US cookbooks do not contain metric measurements.
>
> Having said that, I have quite a few cookbooks from the UK and Europe. I
> made a point of buying measuring equipment for that purpose, as well as a
> scale that weighs in both ounces and grams.

Once you start using the system, you know the conversions easily and
quickly. Like bi-lingual people that slip in and out of both languages as
if they are one. The most difficult part is just accepting that you are
going to use metric and in a few days, it is second nature.

I can look at a pressure gauge and see 2 bar or 30 psi and know what it
means. In any case, I don't see any changes coming to the US kitchen in my
lifetime. Too many people just won't change.

"graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:44:56 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>> "pat" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Pennyaline wrote:
>>>>>James Silverton wrote:
>>>>>>Well, I won't hold onto my hat since theMetric systemhas been *legal*
>>>>>>here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a "Chopine" :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>It may be legal, young fella, but it isn't American!
>>>>
>>>> There are US laws that forbid metrication. US Federal law (the FPLA,
>>>> for example) forbids metric-only labels on most prepackaged things you
>>>> see in the supermarket.
>>>
>>> Probably because too many people would not know how to easily do the
>>> conversion or think in metric terms. Bacon has always been a pound and
>>> thus
>>> will remain so, or something like that. 500 grams or a half kilo would
>>> make
>>> their brain hurt.
>>>
>>> The two reasons I've always run into is a large percentage just don't
>>> want
>>> to change and are afraid, another big group thinks the US system is
>>> superior, just because it is the US system. We are in a world economy,
>>> like
>>> it or not, and if we used metric, it would be easier for our country to
>>> deal
>>> wit the rest of the world. The Hubble telescope would not have been
>>> screwed
>>> up.
>>>
>>> I've been using metric at work for 20 years now. It is easy and
>>> sensible,
>>> and the choice of most everyone there now that they've used it.
>>
>> i'm not that old, but i think i would spend the rest of my life thinking,
>> 'o.k., a half kilo is about a pound.'
>>
>
> That only happens if both systems are used together. If the US went
> metric overnight, i.e., with no transition period, it wouldn't be long
> before people thought in metric.
>
>
Nonsense. If you need to think about it then it's not second nature...
metric will never become second nature to someone who grew up with English
measurement from the cradle. I know auto mechnics with 40 years experience
who readily admit that they still need to double/triple check anything
metric... they can eyeball the correct socket for any SAE bolt first shot
but with metric they have to try 2-3. An American has about as much chance
of having metric become second nature as they would driving on the left side
of the road.

In article >,
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:

> I don't see any changes coming to the US kitchen in my
> lifetime. Too many people just won't change.

The only way for that to start is for them to start putting BOTH on
containers and price tags.
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.


Subscribe:

"brooklyn1" > wrote in message ...
|
| "graham" > wrote in message
| ...
| >
| > That only happens if both systems are used together. If the US went
| > metric overnight, i.e., with no transition period, it wouldn't be long
| > before people thought in metric.
| >
| >
| Nonsense. If you need to think about it then it's not second nature...
| metric will never become second nature to someone who grew up with English
| measurement from the cradle. I know auto mechnics with 40 years experience
| who readily admit that they still need to double/triple check anything
| metric... they can eyeball the correct socket for any SAE bolt first shot
| but with metric they have to try 2-3. An American has about as much chance
| of having metric become second nature as they would driving on the left side
| of the road.

Canada made the metric conversion exactly as graham indicated, no transition
period and did so with great success. After about 5 years people no longer
thought about it, simply functioned in metric. I know because I was there,
in the mid-1970s. Why do you babble so much about things you know nothing
about, Shelshit?

pavane

pavane wrote on Sun, 12 Jul 2009 15:13:18 -0400:


> "brooklyn1" > wrote in message
> ...
|>
|> "graham" > wrote in message
|> ...
| >>
| >> That only happens if both systems are used together. If
| >> the US went metric overnight, i.e., with no transition
| >> period, it wouldn't be long before people thought in
| >> metric.
| >>
|> Nonsense. If you need to think about it then it's not second
|> nature... metric will never become second nature to someone
|> who grew up with English measurement from the cradle. I know
|> auto mechnics with 40 years experience who readily admit that
|> they still need to double/triple check anything metric...
|> they can eyeball the correct socket for any SAE bolt first
|> shot but with metric they have to try 2-3. An American has
|> about as much chance of having metric become second nature as
|> they would driving on the left side of the road.

> Canada made the metric conversion exactly as graham indicated,
> no transition period and did so with great success. After
> about 5 years people no longer thought about it, simply
> functioned in metric. I know because I was there, in the
> mid-1970s. Why do you babble so much about things you know
> nothing about, Shelshit?

Canada has a more arbitrary attitude to changes that the "powers that
be" consider good for the great unwashed! They did the same thing with
coins when they abolished the corresponding bills. The pols don't have
the nerve to do that in the US. However, tradition is a mighty thing;
the copper (or copper-clad) penny is still in circulation. Way back in
1913, the smallest coin was still the penny and people seemed to get
along with that, despite the fact that its current value would be about
13 cents. Abolishing the penny, nickel and probably dime would not be
any great hardship but as I said before, I'm not holding on to my hat!

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
>> Among other things, if you cook and use cookbooks, you'd be constantly
>> converting forever...unless you threw them all out and replaced them.
>> Most
>> of my US cookbooks do not contain metric measurements.
>>
>> Having said that, I have quite a few cookbooks from the UK and Europe. I
>> made a point of buying measuring equipment for that purpose, as well as a
>> scale that weighs in both ounces and grams.
>
> Once you start using the system, you know the conversions easily and
> quickly. Like bi-lingual people that slip in and out of both languages as
> if they are one. The most difficult part is just accepting that you are
> going to use metric and in a few days, it is second nature.

Thats pretty much my experience. At one job we started doing a lot of
business with Asian countries. Everything had to be done using SI
metric. After a short time I didn't even need to do any thinking when
looking at something expressed with SI.

>
> I can look at a pressure gauge and see 2 bar or 30 psi and know what it
> means. In any case, I don't see any changes coming to the US kitchen in my
> lifetime. Too many people just won't change.
>
>

brooklyn1 wrote:
> "graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:44:56 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>>> "pat" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Pennyaline wrote:
>>>>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>>>>> Well, I won't hold onto my hat since theMetric systemhas been *legal*
>>>>>>> here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a "Chopine" :-)
>>>>>> It may be legal, young fella, but it isn't American!
>>>>> There are US laws that forbid metrication. US Federal law (the FPLA,
>>>>> for example) forbids metric-only labels on most prepackaged things you
>>>>> see in the supermarket.
>>>> Probably because too many people would not know how to easily do the
>>>> conversion or think in metric terms. Bacon has always been a pound and
>>>> thus
>>>> will remain so, or something like that. 500 grams or a half kilo would
>>>> make
>>>> their brain hurt.
>>>>
>>>> The two reasons I've always run into is a large percentage just don't
>>>> want
>>>> to change and are afraid, another big group thinks the US system is
>>>> superior, just because it is the US system. We are in a world economy,
>>>> like
>>>> it or not, and if we used metric, it would be easier for our country to
>>>> deal
>>>> wit the rest of the world. The Hubble telescope would not have been
>>>> screwed
>>>> up.
>>>>
>>>> I've been using metric at work for 20 years now. It is easy and
>>>> sensible,
>>>> and the choice of most everyone there now that they've used it.
>>> i'm not that old, but i think i would spend the rest of my life thinking,
>>> 'o.k., a half kilo is about a pound.'
>>>
>> That only happens if both systems are used together. If the US went
>> metric overnight, i.e., with no transition period, it wouldn't be long
>> before people thought in metric.
>>
>>
> Nonsense. If you need to think about it then it's not second nature...
> metric will never become second nature to someone who grew up with English
> measurement from the cradle. I know auto mechnics with 40 years experience
> who readily admit that they still need to double/triple check anything
> metric... they can eyeball the correct socket for any SAE bolt first shot
> but with metric they have to try 2-3. An American has about as much chance
> of having metric become second nature as they would driving on the left side
> of the road.
>
>
>
You may want to tell that to someone who works in the US medical
community for one and watch them laugh at you. They explicitly use SI
metric because calculations are so much easier. I am quite sure most
docs, nurses, staff etc were using English measurements "from the cradle"

At a former job we started doing business with Asian countries. Within a
short time I and the dozen people I had working for me were "thinking"
in metric without issues. People who make those claims simply don't want
to do it.

brooklyn1 wrote:
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "pat" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Pennyaline wrote:
>>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>>> Well, I won't hold onto my hat since theMetric systemhas been *legal*
>>>>> here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a "Chopine" :-)
>>>> It may be legal, young fella, but it isn't American!
>>> There are US laws that forbid metrication. US Federal law (the FPLA,
>>> for example) forbids metric-only labels on most prepackaged things you
>>> see in the supermarket.
>> Probably because too many people would not know how to easily do the
>> conversion or think in metric terms. Bacon has always been a pound and
>> thus will remain so, or something like that. 500 grams or a half kilo
>> would make their brain hurt.
>>
>> The two reasons I've always run into is a large percentage just don't want
>> to change and are afraid, another big group thinks the US system is
>> superior, just because it is the US system. We are in a world economy,
>> like it or not, and if we used metric, it would be easier for our country
>> to deal wit the rest of the world. The Hubble telescope would not have
>> been screwed up.
>>
>> I've been using metric at work for 20 years now. It is easy and sensible,
>> and the choice of most everyone there now that they've used it.
>>
> The key obstacle is with interpolation, it's impossible for anyone to
> interpolate acurately between different measuring systems. Once one has
> been exposed to a particular measurement system from birth all others will
> forever be foreign. You may use metric (we all do to a degree) but you use
> it the same way say native Spanish speaking folks learn English as a second
> language... metric will never become as second nature for you as English
> measurement. If your car's speedometer wasn't marked side by side in MPH
> and KPH there'd be no way you could come close to estimating your KPH, but
> I'd bet you could tell even before looking that you're doing 60MPH in a
> 55MPH zone.. your toe would be easing off the gas even before you saw the
> man in the big hat in your rear view mirror, and even though you realized he
> wasn't gunning for anyone 5 miles over you'd be holding your breath till he
> passed.


Thats complete nonsense. I have driven cars exclusively marked in metric
units and there is absolutely no issue after a really short period.

Don't tell me you can go outdoors right now without looking at a
> thermometer and guesstimate the temperature in Celsius, no friggin' way...


Really, don't bet me and a lot of folks I know on that.

> you'd be scratchin' your head screwin' up your eyes, and even though you can
> come within 5º F you'd need to go look for a conversion table. Quick, how
> many inches is a 27 mm wrench... I'm positive you'd have to look it up, or
> at least calculate millimeters in your head. I happen to know that one
> because I had to buy a 27 mm wrench for the bolt that holds on my big mower
> blades... it's nearly 1 1/16" but not quite. I've used all kinds of metric
> tools for more than 40 years but still need to double check... I can eyeball
> a 1/4"-20 Allen screw at 20 feet but I will always need to measure metric
> hardware. I can slice 1 pound of balogna +/- one slice just by heft in my
> hand, but the closest I can interpolate a Kilo of balogna is to figure near
> abouts the heft of a 36 C cup. LOL
>
>
>
Sounds like you are really challenged. Super quick without thinking you
know there are 2.2 lb in a kilo. Where exactly is the problem?

On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 10:37:07 -0400, "cshenk" > wrote:

>Correct. It's not that hard when doing dry weights. It's translating USA
>recipes which are normally 'volume based' into weight measures then back
>that gets folks.

I agree... You can think in either measurement, but it's the
conversion that kills you.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 10:37:07 -0400, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
>>Correct. It's not that hard when doing dry weights. It's translating USA
>>recipes which are normally 'volume based' into weight measures then back
>>that gets folks.
>
> I agree... You can think in either measurement, but it's the
> conversion that kills you.
>
The annoying thing is that I think in celsius WRT the weather but in
Foreignheit for cooking because all the damned cookers in N.America are
calibrated in that system (except for the Miele and other imports that cost
the earth but are fabulous! I want one to replace my Bosch).

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>
>> I don't see any changes coming to the US kitchen in my
>> lifetime. Too many people just won't change.
>
> The only way for that to start is for them to start putting BOTH on
> containers and price tags.
> --
No, No, No!!
An example: When I left the UK for Australia in 1971, the weather
forecasters announced that they were going to change to Celsius. First they
would give the temp in F then in C. A while later they would give it in C
then in F and finally they would drop the F. When I visited 25 years later
they were still quoting both!
Shortly after arriving in Australia, it was announced that as from the
following Monday, Celsius would be used. No transition, just "cold turkey".
Most, except the elderly, adapted very quickly. The only residue was 38C
was still referred to as a century.
Graham

Janet Baraclough wrote:
>>> Among other things, if you cook and use cookbooks, you'd be
>>> constantly converting forever...unless you threw them all out
>>> and replaced them. Most of my US cookbooks do not contain
>>> metric measurements.
>
> Nonsense. Britain converted from imperial to metric decades ago; I
> can and do still use old imperial recipe books
> with no problem at all because scales and jugs here measure both. I just
> work in the same system as the recipe.
>
>
> Janet.

Right. Simple enough. My main problem is remembering when there
are Oz measures.

--
Jean B.

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
5.250...
> On Sun 12 Jul 2009 07:48:14a, graham told us...
>
>>
>> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:44:56 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>>> "pat" > wrote in message
>>>> .
>>>> ..
>>>>> Pennyaline wrote:
>>>>>>James Silverton wrote:
>>>>>>>Well, I won't hold onto my hat since theMetric systemhas been
>>>>>>>*legal* here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a
>>>>>>>"Chopine" :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It may be legal, young fella, but it isn't American!
>>>>>
>>>>> There are US laws that forbid metrication. US Federal law (the FPLA,
>>>>> for example) forbids metric-only labels on most prepackaged things
>>>>> you see in the supermarket.
>>>>
>>>> Probably because too many people would not know how to easily do the
>>>> conversion or think in metric terms. Bacon has always been a pound and
>>>> thus will remain so, or something like that. 500 grams or a half kilo
>>>> would make their brain hurt.
>>>>
>>>> The two reasons I've always run into is a large percentage just don't
>>>> want to change and are afraid, another big group thinks the US system
>>>> is superior, just because it is the US system. We are in a world
>>>> economy, like it or not, and if we used metric, it would be easier for
>>>> our country to deal wit the rest of the world. The Hubble telescope
>>>> would not have been screwed up.
>>>>
>>>> I've been using metric at work for 20 years now. It is easy and
>>>> sensible, and the choice of most everyone there now that they've used
>>>> it.
>>>
>>> i'm not that old, but i think i would spend the rest of my life
>>> thinking, 'o.k., a half kilo is about a pound.'
>>>
>>
>> That only happens if both systems are used together. If the US went
>> metric overnight, i.e., with no transition period, it wouldn't be long
>> before people thought in metric.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Among other things, if you cook and use cookbooks, you'd be constantly
> converting forever...unless you threw them all out and replaced them.
> Most
> of my US cookbooks do not contain metric measurements.
>
> Having said that, I have quite a few cookbooks from the UK and Europe. I
> made a point of buying measuring equipment for that purpose, as well as a
> scale that weighs in both ounces and grams.
>

My most recent cookbook purchase was Ciril Hitz's "Baking Artisan Bread: 10
Expert Formulas for Baking Better Bread at Home" which I thoroughly
recommend. He works at the King Arthur Flour Co. in Vermont.
He gives all the recipes in grams, followed by Imperial, then cups and
finally bakers' %. He promotes the metric system as it is so easy to scale
the recipes up or down and for small batches I don't bother with the %
system.

"brooklyn1" > wrote in message
>>
>> metric will never become as second nature for you as English
> measurement. If your car's speedometer wasn't marked side by side in MPH
> and KPH there'd be no way you could come close to estimating your KPH, but
> I'd bet you could tell even before looking that you're doing 60MPH in a
> 55MPH zone..

After a week of driving in Europe, it does. I have no reason here to make
the calculation, but once you get used to the kph, it is no different.
Highway speeds of 90 kph to 110 kph are common.


> Don't tell me you can go outdoors right now without looking at a
> thermometer and guesstimate the temperature in Celsius, no friggin' way...
> you'd be scratchin' your head screwin' up your eyes, and even though you
> can come within 5º F you'd need to go look for a conversion table.

Again, you get used to it. I can do the calculations in my head. I had to
use them so I learned. I know that 14C is a bit chilly and 16 to 17is
rather comfy, and 0 is freezing.

Quick, how
> many inches is a 27 mm wrench... I'm positive you'd have to look it up, or
> at least calculate millimeters in your head.

Truth is, it does not matter. if you have a 27mm wrench it will work, if
not, the fit is sloppy. The maintenace guys at work wondered why everthing
on the machine was metric except the mold dogs were 11/16. Once they
started using a 17mm, the nuts did not round over any more.



> I can eyeball a 1/4"-20 Allen screw at 20 feet but I will always need to
> measure metric hardware.

So can I, also M6, M8 M10 since we use them all the time. Mixed hardware is
a little more difficult, such as looking at a bolt it is not always easy to
tell, but if you know it is metric, you know it is M6 and not 1/4" or M8.

On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:48:14 -0600, "graham" > wrote:

>That only happens if both systems are used together. If the US went metric
>overnight, i.e., with no transition period, it wouldn't be long before
>people thought in metric.

I want to know why the rest of the world is so doggone hell bent on us
converting. We use metric literally everywhere that has international
dealings. Let us keep out 2x4s which aren't 2x4 anymore (1+1/2 in ×
3+1/2 in (38 mm × 89 mm) and you can keep your metric system with
British Imperial this and that.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"sf" > wrote in message
> I want to know why the rest of the world is so doggone hell bent on us
> converting. We use metric literally everywhere that has international
> dealings. Let us keep out 2x4s which aren't 2x4 anymore (1+1/2 in ×
> 3+1/2 in (38 mm × 89 mm) and you can keep your metric system with
> British Imperial this and that.

I'm not so sure they are. What many US companies don't realize, foreign
companies won't import some of our products because of the size differences.
We often lose out for that reason. Remember when many garages could/would
not work on foreign cars? The mechanics that bought the metric tools were
able to charge premium prices.

"Stu" > wrote in message >>
>>Again, you get used to it. I can do the calculations in my head. I had to
>>use them so I learned. I know that 14C is a bit chilly and 16 to 17is
>>rather comfy, and 0 is freezing.
>
>
> Actually 20C is comfy

Depends on what you are doing. With the slightest activity I'm comfortable
at 16, but just sitting and watching TV, I'd have to put a sweater one.
Sleeping, we like the bedroom down around 14.

In Europe, the price of fuel keeps most homes down in the lower ranges of
temperature. I remember way back it was common for people to heat their
homes to 72F or more, but then the 1970's oil shortage changed that idea to
70 or less.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
news
>
> "Stu" > wrote in message >>
>>>Again, you get used to it. I can do the calculations in my head. I had to
>>>use them so I learned. I know that 14C is a bit chilly and 16 to 17is
>>>rather comfy, and 0 is freezing.
>>
>>
>> Actually 20C is comfy
>
> Depends on what you are doing. With the slightest activity I'm
> comfortable at 16, but just sitting and watching TV, I'd have to put a
> sweater one. Sleeping, we like the bedroom down around 14.
>
> In Europe, the price of fuel keeps most homes down in the lower ranges of
> temperature. I remember way back it was common for people to heat their
> homes to 72F or more, but then the 1970's oil shortage changed that idea
> to 70 or less.
>
>
However, one's metabolism adjusts. When I lived in Australia, I'd put on a
sweater when the temperature dropped below 28C!! It took several years to
adapt to Canadian winters.

On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:43:01 -0600, graham wrote:

> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 06:51:39 -0600, graham wrote:
>>
>>> "pat" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Pennyaline wrote:
>>>>>James Silverton wrote:
>>>>>>Well, I won't hold onto my hat since theMetric systemhas been *legal*
>>>>>>here for about a century. I'd also forgotten what was a "Chopine" :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>It may be legal, young fella, but it isn't American!
>>>>
>>>> There are US laws that forbid metrication. US Federal law (the FPLA,
>>>> for example) forbids metric-only labels on most prepackaged things you
>>>> see in the supermarket.
>>>
>>> Hmmm! How backward!
>>
>> what?! USA number one!!!
>>
>
> In what? Adulation of celebrities?

well, to be fair, a lot of those overseas adulate our celebrities, too.

your pal,
blake

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
>
> I remember way back it was common for people to heat their homes to 72F or
> more, but then the 1970's oil shortage changed that idea to 70 or less.
>
>
I remember that too, the days of waiting in line for gas, people heating
with coal and kerosene, upsetting their entire family's life style by
forming car pools, etc. It was all about decisions based solely on panic,
it changed nothing about how people altered their energy usage in a
meaningful manner.

There's no need to alter ones comfort level with a well insulated efficient
home. Most US homes are poorly insulated. Adding proper insulation is very
inexpensive. Last fall I spent $600 to add insulation to my house. Last
winter's heating bill was $500 less than the average of the past five
years... it's too soon yet to tell about central a/c but I suspect a similar
savings. The average US home will recoupe the cost of adding insulation the
first year, so in effect it's free. Much one can do themselves with
caulking and weather stripping, and even the larger jobs of walls and
attics... but if one shops around, especially in this economic environment,
one can find very qualified insulation mechanics who will do the job at very
fair and affordable prices. I had my entire 2,000 sq ft attic insulated to
R40 (including all my A/C ducts) and all my windows and doors recaulked,
including labor and materials for $600. Insulating materials are very
inexpensive and the entire job took one man and a helper like 6 hours labor.
I could have purchased the material myself at Lowes for about $300, but it
wasn't worth it for me to do all that messy dusty work all by myself, and
not having the experience this guy had I'm sure after observing all it
entailed with two people it would have taken me at least three days, and Im
sure I'd not have done as good a job. Adding insulation is the single most
important thing one can do to save energy dollars

I've always prefered keeping my house temperature to the cool side, winter
and summer, I keep my thermostat set at 69ºF 24/7 year round. Altering home
temperature by 2-3 degrees does not really save much, certainly not nearly
as much as adding insulation and eliminating draughts. Also altering
temperature doesn't save nearly as much as keeping heating/cooling systems
in tip top shape. Most homes more than 20 years old really need new more
efficient systems, but at least have the existing systems properly tuned up
regularly. I have set back thermostats but don't use that feature, that not
only saves nothing, but by constantly changing temperature they cost more to
use and cause the heating and cooling systems to cycle more often which
shortens their life. Set back thermostats save energy in commercial
buildings that are emptied of people during non business hours, weekends,
and holidays, but for the average house where people reside for like 2/3 of
every day and in many cases 24/7 they are an energy wasting gimmick promoted
by the energy supplying businesses. Refrigeraters/freezers don't have set
back thermostats for the same reason people don't need them where they
reside... far more energy is saved by better insulation and not opening the
doors unnessarily so draughts steal energy. Refrigerator/freezers do have
winter/summer energy saving settings, well the same can be accomplished in
homes with humidifiers/dehumidifiers. Where I live the ambient humidity is
on the high side, so winter humidity can be supplimented easily without a
humidifier. But most A/C systems are over engineered (in order to cool
during the warmest weather) to the point where they cool rapidly but at too
high a rate to remove sufficient humidity before shutting down, so all they
accomplish is to create a cold clammy environment. Since summers here are
hot and humid I have dehumidifiers running all summer, one larger one in my
basement (60 pints) and two smaller units one at each end of my house (30
pints)... they make a tremendous improvement in the comfort level without
adding much energy cost... I keep them at their lowest quietest setting and
the one in the basement is set to cycle on and off every 4 hours. Keeping
the humidity level in a house stable and in a comfort zone (40-45%) is very
important to maintaining the ingegrity of the structure and all it's
contents, including the health of its occupants... in this electronics age
folks have many dollars invested in delicate computers, TVs, etc.. all sorts
of solid state controled applainces big and small throughout today's homes,
from kitchen appliances, to cameras, to clocks, even thermostats, operating
at an excessive humidy level can damage them. So just lowering heating
temperatures in of itself not only saves no energy dollars it may well do
more harm than good.

On Jul 12, 4:55*pm, "graham" > wrote:
> "Omelet" > wrote in message
>
> news
> > "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>
> >> *I don't see any changes coming to the US kitchen in my
> >> lifetime. *Too many people just won't change.
>
> > The only way for that to start is for them to start putting BOTH on
> > containers and price tags.
> > --
>
> No, No, No!!
> An example: *When I left the UK for Australia in 1971, the weather
> forecasters announced that they were going to change to Celsius. *First they
> would give the temp in F then in C. *A while later they would give it in C
> then in F and finally they would drop the F. * When I visited 25 years later
> they were still quoting both!
> Shortly after arriving in Australia, it was announced that as from the
> following Monday, Celsius would be used. *No transition, just "cold turkey".
> Most, except the elderly, adapted very quickly. *The only residue was 38C
> was still referred to as a century.
> Graham

I grew up with F but now-a-days I have real trouble trying to remember
what something like 75F means.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

On Jul 13, 12:39*am, "graham" > wrote:
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>
> news >
>
>
> > "Stu" > wrote in message >>
> >>>Again, you get used to it. I can do the calculations in my head. I had to
> >>>use them so I learned. * I know that 14C is a bit chilly and 16 to 17is
> >>>rather comfy, and 0 is freezing.
>
> >> Actually 20C is comfy
>
> > Depends on what you are doing. *With the slightest activity I'm
> > comfortable at 16, but just sitting and watching TV, I'd have to put a
> > sweater one. Sleeping, we like the bedroom down around 14.
>
> > In Europe, the price of fuel keeps most homes down in the lower ranges of
> > temperature. *I remember way back it was common for people to heat their
> > homes to 72F or more, but then the 1970's oil *shortage changed that idea
> > to 70 or less.
>
> However, one's metabolism adjusts. *When I lived in Australia, I'd put on a
> sweater when the temperature dropped below 28C!! *It took several years to
> adapt to Canadian winters.

I've only been here a bit over fifty years and I still have not
adapted! On the other hand a British friend told me that it took her
about 3-4 years to realise that one had to dress properly for the
winter and once she realised that and bought some decent winter
clothes and boots she actually started to enjoy winter.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

"John Kane" > wrote in message
...
On Jul 13, 12:39 am, "graham" > wrote:
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>
> news >
>
>
> > "Stu" > wrote in message >>
> >>>Again, you get used to it. I can do the calculations in my head. I had
> >>>to
> >>>use them so I learned. I know that 14C is a bit chilly and 16 to 17is
> >>>rather comfy, and 0 is freezing.
>
> >> Actually 20C is comfy
>
> > Depends on what you are doing. With the slightest activity I'm
> > comfortable at 16, but just sitting and watching TV, I'd have to put a
> > sweater one. Sleeping, we like the bedroom down around 14.
>
> > In Europe, the price of fuel keeps most homes down in the lower ranges
> > of
> > temperature. I remember way back it was common for people to heat their
> > homes to 72F or more, but then the 1970's oil shortage changed that idea
> > to 70 or less.
>
> However, one's metabolism adjusts. When I lived in Australia, I'd put on a
> sweater when the temperature dropped below 28C!! It took several years to
> adapt to Canadian winters.

I've only been here a bit over fifty years and I still have not
adapted! On the other hand a British friend told me that it took her
about 3-4 years to realise that one had to dress properly for the
winter and once she realised that and bought some decent winter
clothes and boots she actually started to enjoy winter.

__________________________________________

About the only sensible thing said by Freud was: "There is no bad weather,
only bad clothes!"