George Shirley said...

> Tom Biasi wrote:
>>>
>>> Just Wow Andy... I can't even put my mind around that one.
>>>
>>> I haven't hunter for at least ten years, now, but I still remember
>>> almost every critter I have shared life with.
>>>
>>> I have deer, turkeys, foxes, ground hogs, squirrels, raccoons, and the
>>> list goes on, on my property daily. To consider "boxing" them, and
>>> shooting at them, is just something I can't even consider.
>>>
>>> If I had no heart, at least I'd eat well. But those that sponsored
>>> that "turkey" shoot are heartless, and I would never spend any future
>>> time on them again, locals or neighbors it just does not matter. It
>>> just wouldn't compute, and for anyone that it did, I would not want to
>>> know them.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>
>> Hi Bob,
>> I do not practice this but give a little thought to culture.
>> If a turkey is selected to die for a meal, creative society means were
>> invented to do it. The turkey was to die anyway.
>> So you grab it, lay its head across a tree stump and give it the axe,
>> is this better?
>> I would not kill an animal unless for food or defense.
>> The turkey doesn't know anything. The community is taking a harvest.
>> Just some thought.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
> In the old days in the south turkey shoots had the turkey in a box,
> nowadays they shoot at a paper target. No screaming turkeys flopping
> around anymore.


There were cease fires called for turkey kills and they'd run out, carrying
a flaying live turkey out to the box and pop the hood to retrieve the dead
bird and replace it with a live one.

Doubt they knew their demise!

Andy

On Jul 18, 8:00*am, Andy > wrote:
> George Shirley said...
>
>
>
> > Tom Biasi wrote:
>
> >>> Just Wow Andy... I can't even put my mind around that one.
>
> >>> I haven't hunter for at least ten years, now, but I still remember
> >>> almost every critter I have shared life with.
>
> >>> I have deer, turkeys, foxes, ground hogs, squirrels, raccoons, and the
> >>> list goes on, on my property daily. To consider "boxing" them, and
> >>> shooting at them, is just something I can't even consider.
>
> >>> If I had no heart, at least I'd eat well. But those that sponsored
> >>> that "turkey" shoot are heartless, and I would never spend any future
> >>> time on them again, locals or neighbors it just does not matter. It
> >>> just wouldn't compute, and for anyone that it did, I would not want to
> >>> know them.
>
> >>> Bob
>
> >> Hi Bob,
> >> I do not practice this but give a little thought to culture.
> >> If a turkey is selected to die for a meal, creative society means were
> >> invented to do it. The turkey was to die anyway.
> >> So you grab it, lay its head across a tree stump and give it the axe,
> >> is this better?
> >> I would not kill an animal unless for food or defense.
> >> The turkey doesn't know anything. The community is taking a harvest.
> >> Just some thought.
>
> >> Tom
>
> > In the old days in the south turkey shoots had the turkey in a box,
> > nowadays they shoot at a paper target. No screaming turkeys flopping
> > around anymore.
>
> There were cease fires called for turkey kills and they'd run out, carrying
> a flaying live turkey out to the box and pop the hood to retrieve the dead
> bird and replace it with a live one.
>

I think you meant flailing.
>
> Andy

--Bryan

Bobo Bonobo® said...

> I think you meant flailing.
>>
>> Andy
>
> --Bryan


Right! Thanks!

Andy

John Kuthe wrote:
> On Jul 17, 11:59 pm, Bobo Bonobo® > wrote:
>> On Jul 17, 11:41 pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
>>
>>> On Jul 17, 11:21 pm, Bobo Bonobo® > wrote:
>>>> No question that what you wrote is correct. Factory farming is
>>>> immoral. I'm about as far from vegetarian as one could be, and I
>>>> think that's obvious.
>>> And yet you support factory farming every tome you buy grocery store
>>> meat, especially on sale! (Which I know you love to do.)
>> Guilty as charged, but the markets don't function well, and we all
>> have to find our balance.
>
> Oh, the markets function very well! Factory farms are really the only
> practical way we can feed so many people with such "high quality"
> protein (meaning meat) for an affordable cost.
>
>
>> For Thankgiving, I always buy fresh, free range turkeys.
>
> I can't believe how much better turkey tastes without all that saline
> crap infused into it! Mmmmmmm! My father and sister and I have really
> gotten good at making a traditional Thanksgiving spread! Mmmmmmm! Now
> you have me thinking about it, what with the unusually cool weather
> we're getting for July, which makes it feel like Fall and Harvest
> Season! :-)
>
> John Kuthe...
You don't have to buy free range turkeys to get ones that aren't saline
injected. Just buy fresh turkey, still unfrozen, nothing but factory
bird without the injections of anything. They run about 99 cents a lb
around here but it is fresh turkey, never frozen.

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 07:06:44 -0500, George Shirley wrote:

> Tom Biasi wrote:
>>>
>>> Just Wow Andy... I can't even put my mind around that one.
>>>
>>> I haven't hunter for at least ten years, now, but I still remember almost
>>> every critter I have shared life with.
>>>
>>> I have deer, turkeys, foxes, ground hogs, squirrels, raccoons, and the
>>> list goes on, on my property daily. To consider "boxing" them, and
>>> shooting at them, is just something I can't even consider.
>>>
>>> If I had no heart, at least I'd eat well. But those that sponsored that
>>> "turkey" shoot are heartless, and I would never spend any future time on
>>> them again, locals or neighbors it just does not matter. It just wouldn't
>>> compute, and for anyone that it did, I would not want to know them.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>
>> Hi Bob,
>> I do not practice this but give a little thought to culture.
>> If a turkey is selected to die for a meal, creative society means were
>> invented to do it. The turkey was to die anyway.
>> So you grab it, lay its head across a tree stump and give it the axe, is
>> this better?
>> I would not kill an animal unless for food or defense.
>> The turkey doesn't know anything. The community is taking a harvest.
>> Just some thought.
>>
>> Tom
>>
> In the old days in the south turkey shoots had the turkey in a box,
> nowadays they shoot at a paper target. No screaming turkeys flopping
> around anymore.

where's the fun in that?

your pal,
blake

On Jul 18, 5:09*am, George Shirley > wrote:
[snip]
> My kids learned a lot about anatomy watching me butcher rabbits back on
> the farmette. DW didn't want them to watch as it might affect their
> little psyches. What they did was poke around in the bucket with the
> innards in it and ask questions about what they were seeing. Never
> bothered them an iota, little children are just one step away from being
> savages anyway.

That's how you get kids to learn; let them poke about in things. It's
amazing who the more squeamish are; it's usually the parents that
don't let their children _do_ anything than watch because it might
mess up the clothing or get on the furniture. It's a real shame some
times.

The Ranger

George Shirley wrote:

> Gloria P wrote:
>> George Shirley wrote:
>>> Mark Thorson wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm wondering whether I could obtain some of this
>>>> meat, and if so, where? Among hunters that don't eat
>>>> their quarry, what happens to the meat?
>>>
>>> In this area they give it to certain food pantries that will take
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Don't know about California but around here you can also hunt feral
>>> pigs during any season but you still have to have a hunting license.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I don't remember where I heard it, but I am under the impression
>> that wild boar/pig meat often contains a lot of parasites.
>>
>> Was I misinformed?
>>
>> gloria p
> Nope, wild hog must absolutely be cooked well done. Never had a
> problem and I been eating woods hawgs all my life.
>
> Each person who had hogs running loose in the woods in the old days
> (days before stock laws were passed in the fifties)register an
> earmark, a notch of sorts.
>
> When you were catching hogs in the fall (never butchered pork in warm
> weather)would also earmark the piglets caught with a sow. All the
> piglets but one got the sows earmark and the odd one got your earmark
> as a reward for marking them. Since we all did it it came out even.
>
> We would take a couple of mules harnessed to a wagon into the woods.
> Most usually we would be horseback as woods hogs can be very mean.
> Whomever was leading the party, usually several neighbors working
> together, would point out the hog to shot if we were going to make
> meat. One hog for each neighbor and the one shot for them would be
> with their earmark. When I was about eleven I was always the shooter
> as I had good eyesight and marksmanship by that age. Shoot them
> between the eyes with a .22 long rifle round in my Winchester Model
> 1906 pump gun. Bleed them quick, load them in the wagon. When the
> wagon was full we would go to whichever homeplace the butchering was
> taking place and whole families would get involved.
>
> Sadly I don't think anyone does that anymore but back then there
> weren't any supermarkets in our area, just a few Mom and Pop stores
> and one butcher shop. We didn't even have home freezers then, we had
> cold lockers in town, walk in freezers. Beat stashing meat in the
> spring to keep it cool or salting, smoking, or other means of
> preserving.


This is something similar to what my folks did during the depths of the
Depression. They still had a big black iron pot that I guess was used for
rendering, by the time I came along they were using for a flower planter...

My mom used to can beef...

They were sure happy to have the REA come along c. 1940 so's they could at
least have a refrigerator...


> As I approach the age of seventy I'm very happy to go to the local
> Kroger and buy my grub. At age ten it was a hoot to go out and gather
> it, barefoot, no shirt on, hickory striped overalls, and a straw hat,
> height of fashion in SE Texas back in the day.


:-)


--
Best
Greg

On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:28:06 -0500, George Shirley
> wrote:

>Gloria P wrote:
>> George Shirley wrote:
>>> Mark Thorson wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm wondering whether I could obtain some of this
>>>> meat, and if so, where? Among hunters that don't eat
>>>> their quarry, what happens to the meat?
>>>
>>> In this area they give it to certain food pantries that will take it.
>>>
>>> Don't know about California but around here you can also hunt feral
>>> pigs during any season but you still have to have a hunting license.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I don't remember where I heard it, but I am under the impression
>> that wild boar/pig meat often contains a lot of parasites.
>>
>> Was I misinformed?
>>
>> gloria p
>Nope, wild hog must absolutely be cooked well done. Never had a problem
>and I been eating woods hawgs all my life.

Overcooking is not necessary.

From the FDA regs:
http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/R.../ucm091131.htm

Sec. 318.10 Prescribed treatment of pork and products containing pork
to destroy trichinae.
:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Minimum internal temperature
--------------------------------------------------
Degrees Minimum time
Degrees fahrenheit centigrade
------------------------------------------------------------------------
120.................................. 49.0 21 hours.
122.................................. 50.0 9.5 hours.
124.................................. 51.1 4.5 hours.
126.................................. 52.2 2 hours.
128.................................. 53.4 1 hour.
130.................................. 54.5 30 minutes.
132.................................. 55.6 15 minutes.
134.................................. 56.7 6 minutes.
136.................................. 57.8 3 minutes.
138.................................. 58.9 2 minutes.
140.................................. 60.0 1 minute.
142.................................. 61.1 1 minute.
144.................................. 62.2 Instant.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark Thorson > wrote:
>
> I'm wondering whether I could obtain some of this
> meat, and if so, where?

When in doubt check Exotic Meats dot Com. Yep, they
have something that sounds like it would work.

http://www.exoticmeatsandmore.com/wildboar.aspx

> Among hunters that don't eat
> their quarry, what happens to the meat?

I have a lot of hunter relatives and none of them will
associate with hunters that waste the meat. Hunting is a
deeply spiritual activity and anyone who doesn't see it as
such isn't going to get along with any of the hunters
among my relatives.

The closest I've ever heard of to that is paid hunts on
reservations - I have family who went on a moose hunt
and they got a 25 kilo package of the meat freeze packed
plus the horns. Folks on the reservation eat all of the rest
of the meat so none went to waste. It was the first question
asked before pursuing reservations and licenses and such
that none of the prey would be wasted.

Robert Klute wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:28:06 -0500, George Shirley
> > wrote:
>
>> Gloria P wrote:
>>> George Shirley wrote:
>>>> Mark Thorson wrote:
>>>>> I'm wondering whether I could obtain some of this
>>>>> meat, and if so, where? Among hunters that don't eat
>>>>> their quarry, what happens to the meat?
>>>> In this area they give it to certain food pantries that will take it.
>>>>
>>>> Don't know about California but around here you can also hunt feral
>>>> pigs during any season but you still have to have a hunting license.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't remember where I heard it, but I am under the impression
>>> that wild boar/pig meat often contains a lot of parasites.
>>>
>>> Was I misinformed?
>>>
>>> gloria p
>> Nope, wild hog must absolutely be cooked well done. Never had a problem
>> and I been eating woods hawgs all my life.
>
> Overcooking is not necessary.
>
> From the FDA regs:
> http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/R.../ucm091131.htm
>
> Sec. 318.10 Prescribed treatment of pork and products containing pork
> to destroy trichinae.
> :
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Minimum internal temperature
> --------------------------------------------------
> Degrees Minimum time
> Degrees fahrenheit centigrade
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 120.................................. 49.0 21 hours.
> 122.................................. 50.0 9.5 hours.
> 124.................................. 51.1 4.5 hours.
> 126.................................. 52.2 2 hours.
> 128.................................. 53.4 1 hour.
> 130.................................. 54.5 30 minutes.
> 132.................................. 55.6 15 minutes.
> 134.................................. 56.7 6 minutes.
> 136.................................. 57.8 3 minutes.
> 138.................................. 58.9 2 minutes.
> 140.................................. 60.0 1 minute.
> 142.................................. 61.1 1 minute.
> 144.................................. 62.2 Instant.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Pretty sure FDA is referring to farm raised hogs, lot of difference
between what they eat, the meds in their food and what wild hogs eat.
Feral hogs will eat anything, carrion, snakes, mice, doesn't matter, if
they can catch it or find it dead they will eat it.

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:01:08 -0500, George Shirley
> wrote:

>Robert Klute wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:28:06 -0500, George Shirley
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Gloria P wrote:

>>
>Pretty sure FDA is referring to farm raised hogs, lot of difference
>between what they eat, the meds in their food and what wild hogs eat.
>Feral hogs will eat anything, carrion, snakes, mice, doesn't matter, if
>they can catch it or find it dead they will eat it.
And frankly, that is how they taste. We tried to eat our wild pigs
twice, and I just couldn't take the flavor. In the olden days,
Hawaiians used to make an oven in the ground and sort of steam and
cook the meat- for about 12 hours. They had covered the oven with
banana leaves,etc. and I think they did all this, to make the meat
palatable and soft. Think Kalua pig.

Just my $.02.

aloha,
Cea

pure kona > wrote in message
...
[snip]
>> Pretty sure FDA is referring to farm raised hogs, lot of difference
>> between what they eat, the meds in their food and what wild hogs
>> eat. Feral hogs will eat anything, carrion, snakes, mice, doesn't
>> matter, if they can catch it or find it dead they will eat it.
>>
> And frankly, that is how they taste. We tried to eat our wild pigs
> twice, and I just couldn't take the flavor.
[snip]

This is true of any game killed in the wild. I can remember the first time I
tried venison. I'd've sworn my father-unit was playing a practical joke with
that whole batch it was so vile to my yet-unaccustomed tastebuds. Duck was
another "acquired" taste. Today, I love most game.

I've heard that soaking the cut in milk (or buttermilk) softens the
gaminess. I can see where wrapping it in banana leaves and then cooking it
in a pit all day would also allow complete breakdown of the meat while
making it totally delicious. I remember enjoying a luau on my honeymoon but
couldn't tell you if it was boar or domestic pig. It was totally succulent,
though...

The Ranger

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:25:57 -0700, "The Ranger" <cuhulain _
> wrote:

>This is true of any game killed in the wild. I can remember the first time I
>tried venison. I'd've sworn my father-unit was playing a practical joke with
>that whole batch it was so vile to my yet-unaccustomed tastebuds. Duck was
>another "acquired" taste.

Venison wasn't a problem for me, but water fowl certainly was. I've
never had the opportunity to try farmed goose and if I did I'd
probably pass. I couldn't even think about trying duck for decades
because the wild variety tasted so bad to me, but now I love farm
raised duck.

>Today, I love most game.

Would that be wild or farm raised?


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

The Ranger wrote:
> pure kona > wrote in message
> ...
> [snip]
>>> Pretty sure FDA is referring to farm raised hogs, lot of difference
>>> between what they eat, the meds in their food and what wild hogs
>>> eat. Feral hogs will eat anything, carrion, snakes, mice, doesn't
>>> matter, if they can catch it or find it dead they will eat it.
>>>
>> And frankly, that is how they taste. We tried to eat our wild pigs
>> twice, and I just couldn't take the flavor.
> [snip]
>
> This is true of any game killed in the wild. I can remember the first time I
> tried venison. I'd've sworn my father-unit was playing a practical joke with
> that whole batch it was so vile to my yet-unaccustomed tastebuds. Duck was
> another "acquired" taste. Today, I love most game.
>
> I've heard that soaking the cut in milk (or buttermilk) softens the
> gaminess. I can see where wrapping it in banana leaves and then cooking it
> in a pit all day would also allow complete breakdown of the meat while
> making it totally delicious. I remember enjoying a luau on my honeymoon but
> couldn't tell you if it was boar or domestic pig. It was totally succulent,
> though...
>
> The Ranger
>
>
Most of the time we take feral hogs and mix them with beef or venison to
make link sausage. It's either that or let them hang awhile.

On Jul 20, 2:12 pm, pure kona > wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:01:08 -0500, George Shirley
>
> > wrote:
> >Robert Klute wrote:
> >> On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:28:06 -0500, George Shirley
> >> > wrote:
>
> >>> Gloria P wrote:
>
> >Pretty sure FDA is referring to farm raised hogs, lot of difference
> >between what they eat, the meds in their food and what wild hogs eat.
> >Feral hogs will eat anything, carrion, snakes, mice, doesn't matter, if
> >they can catch it or find it dead they will eat it.
>
> And frankly, that is how they taste. We tried to eat our wild pigs
> twice, and I just couldn't take the flavor.

That's a bummer because my boss was just telling me today about the
wild pigs in southern Missouri, and how it's open season all year
long.
>
> aloha,
> Cea

--Bryan

George Shirley wrote:

>>
> Pretty sure FDA is referring to farm raised hogs, lot of difference
> between what they eat, the meds in their food and what wild hogs eat.
> Feral hogs will eat anything, carrion, snakes, mice, doesn't matter, if
> they can catch it or find it dead they will eat it.



Jeez, George, you're making the ferals sound more appealing with every post!

;-)

gloria p

Gloria P wrote:
> George Shirley wrote:
>
>>>
>> Pretty sure FDA is referring to farm raised hogs, lot of difference
>> between what they eat, the meds in their food and what wild hogs eat.
>> Feral hogs will eat anything, carrion, snakes, mice, doesn't matter,
>> if they can catch it or find it dead they will eat it.
>
>
>
> Jeez, George, you're making the ferals sound more appealing with every
> post!
>
> ;-)
>
> gloria p
Tame hogs will do the same thing Gloria. When the world ends as we know
it the pigs and the cockroaches will rule. I've seen pigs in a pen
snatch a chicken right off the fence top and eat it.

"pure kona" ha scritto nel messaggio
George Shirley wrote:

>>Pretty sure FDA is referring to farm raised hogs, lot of difference
>> >>between what they eat, the meds in their food and what wild hogs eat.
>>Feral hogs will eat anything, carrion, snakes, mice, doesn't matter, if
>> >>they can catch it or find it dead they will eat it.

But that chart referred only to trichinosis! That doesn't vary according to
the pig's lifestyle. You have it or you don't.

> And frankly, that is how they taste. We tried to eat our wild pigs>
> twice, and I just couldn't take the flavor. >
> aloha,
> Cea

Wild boar is a real cornerstone of central Italian cookery, but isn't
prepared like supermarket pig. OTH, they seem to eat mostly fruits, nuts
and our gardens.

Giusi wrote:
> "pure kona" ha scritto nel messaggio
> George Shirley wrote:
>
>>> Pretty sure FDA is referring to farm raised hogs, lot of difference
>>>>> between what they eat, the meds in their food and what wild hogs eat.
>>> Feral hogs will eat anything, carrion, snakes, mice, doesn't matter, if
>>>>> they can catch it or find it dead they will eat it.
>
> But that chart referred only to trichinosis! That doesn't vary according to
> the pig's lifestyle. You have it or you don't.
>
>> And frankly, that is how they taste. We tried to eat our wild pigs>
>> twice, and I just couldn't take the flavor. >
>> aloha,
>> Cea
>
> Wild boar is a real cornerstone of central Italian cookery, but isn't
> prepared like supermarket pig. OTH, they seem to eat mostly fruits, nuts
> and our gardens.
>
>
Wild boar is a completely different meat animal from our feral pigs
Giusi. The only wild boar in the US have been imported for hunting. Most
of the "wild pigs" are just regular pigs that have gone feral.
Trichinosis is just not found in the domestic pig population due to
drugs and feeding methods that have pretty much eliminated it. It can
still be found in the feral pig population. I don't know diddly about
wild boar myself, do they not get trichinosis?

"George Shirley" ha scritto nel messaggio

I don't know diddly about > wild boar myself, do they not get trichinosis?

Dunno, but when cooking it we assume they do. It's braised usually a long
time with various things.

Giusi wrote:
> "George Shirley" ha scritto nel messaggio
>
> I don't know diddly about > wild boar myself, do they not get trichinosis?
>
> Dunno, but when cooking it we assume they do. It's braised usually a long
> time with various things.
>
>
If we're going to eat cuts of feral pig we do the same. Generally if
they're made into sausage the smoking and cooking process takes care of it.

A ranch in Central Texas that I hunted on years ago had some escaped
European boar on the place. The rancher had put a price on their heads
as he raised mohair goats and the boar ate the young when they could
catch them. I didn't see one so didn't shoot one but a friend did and
said the meat was excellent when cooked properly. I do know they were
very large.

"The Ranger" <cuhulain _ > wrote:
>
> This is true of any game killed in the wild. I can remember the first time I
> tried venison. I'd've sworn my father-unit was playing a practical joke with
> that whole batch it was so vile to my yet-unaccustomed tastebuds. Duck was
> another "acquired" taste. Today, I love most game.

It even applies in a less extreme way to different species of
domesticated livestock. Goats eat a lot more varied and
nassty diet than sheep. Goat meat is more intense moving
towards gamey than lamb. I love the difference but that puts
me in the minority for taste preferences.

Doug Freyburger > wrote:

>It even applies in a less extreme way to different species of
>domesticated livestock. Goats eat a lot more varied and
>nassty diet than sheep. Goat meat is more intense moving
>towards gamey than lamb. I love the difference but that puts
>me in the minority for taste preferences.

Sounds good but when I bought ground goat, to make goat meatballs
they were much more mild flavored than the ground lamb from
the same farmer. What gives? Should I try a different source?

Steve

(Steve Pope) wrote:
> Doug Freyburger > wrote:
>
> >It even applies in a less extreme way to different species of
> >domesticated livestock. *Goats eat a lot more varied and
> >nassty diet than sheep. *Goat meat is more intense moving
> >towards gamey than lamb. *I love the difference but that puts
> >me in the minority for taste preferences.
>
> Sounds good but when I bought ground goat, to make goat meatballs
> they were much more mild flavored than the ground lamb from
> the same farmer. *What gives? *Should I try a different source?

No idea what gives. It's the opposite of my experience. I
buy goat meat specifically because it's been stronger than
lamb.

Hmmm, so what's the strongest lamb I've had? Maybe
the difference is in the lamb more than in the goat. The
strongest flavored lamb I've had was New Zealand grown,
flash frozen, shipped to the US and sold on sale. I suspect
they were fed fish meal to speed their growth based on the
stronger flavor. Ground lamb from those critters may well
have a stronger flavor than ground goat from critters who
ate mostly weeds. Domestic grown US lamb is grass/grain
fed and very mild.

I get goat meat at places that cater to Mexicans and Indians.
The most recent places I've found it have been Hallal places.
I only get to cook goat at home when my wife is out of town.
Next month she'll be away a week and I'll have goat. Maybe
goat meatballs per your suggestion. Thanks!