On Jul 22, 8:17*am, blake murphy > wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:00:33 -0400, cybercat wrote:
> > Mark is stupid and arrogant.
>
> but are you qualified to make that assumption?
>
About as qualified as you making your daily assumptions.

The Ranger

My church does these meals often and we all take turns. I usually make
a large pot of rice pilaf, a roasted whole chicken, and cooked mixed
fresh veggies, carrots, broccoli, cauliflower, etc.

I buy a few disposable aluminum pans, layer the rice and veggies, then
top with the whole cooked chicken, cover with aluminum foil and you're
good to go. Most people like rice and chicken, and they're good for
leftovers too. I usually add a loaf of hearty bread also, and they
don't have to chase you down to return your good pan, just toss the
aluminum.

If it's your turn and you just don't have the time to cook, buy one of
those already hot and roasted chickens in the deli section, make a salad
from the salad bar, and pick up an artisan type bread at the store's
bakery. Easy and inexpensive.

Another idea that worked out great when my mother-in-law was dying from
ovarian cancer and didn't feel like cooking was when I bought a lb of
ham, a lb of turkey and lb of roast beef plus assorted cheeses for
sandwiches. When her teenaged boys were hungry, they could make their
own meals, between school, work and sports.

An assortment of fruit, cheese, yogurts, hummus, pita chips, salsa, etc
also will satisfy hunger when there's no time to think about cooking.
Sometimes you want to nibble a bit and not have to think about eating a
big hot meal.

I try not to get too fancy with these meals, because you never know what
another family will eat, especially if they have kids. Sometimes just a
couple gift certificates to a local pizza or fast food place will do the
trick. If mom is sick, dad can just run to a quicky place and get
something to fill up the kids without trying to get them to gag down
"Aunt Jane's" tuna noodle surprise.

My church also gives gasoline gift cards to help offset the expense of
driving to far away hospitals and clinics.

Denise

blake murphy wrote:
>
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:00:33 -0400, cybercat wrote:
>
> > "none of your business" > wrote:
> >
> >>You make a lot of assumptions that none of us are qualified to make.
> >>I went through chemo and was told to eat whatever I could tolerate.
> >
> > Mark is stupid and arrogant.
>
> but are you qualified to make that assumption?

Obviously not. Note that neither of the posters
who advocated eating anything you want has responded
to the issue of food-provoked modulation of the
drug clearance mechanisms. I happen to be rather
familiar with these mechanisms, and I know I'm right.
These people have propagated very bad advice that
could send people to an early death. Don't expect
me to be quiet when I see fools giving such bad
advice. Food-drug interactions are not something
to be dismissed lightly.

Mark Thorson wrote:

> Obviously not. Note that neither of the posters
> who advocated eating anything you want has responded
> to the issue of food-provoked modulation of the
> drug clearance mechanisms. I happen to be rather
> familiar with these mechanisms, and I know I'm right.
> These people have propagated very bad advice that
> could send people to an early death. Don't expect
> me to be quiet when I see fools giving such bad
> advice. Food-drug interactions are not something
> to be dismissed lightly.

Don't go patting yourself on the back so soon.
SOME drugs are potentiated by grapefruit for example. That doesn't mean
all drugs are. So should anyone taking any medicine give up all
grapefruit products?
I think most of the "advice" you give very foolish and when it comes to
your own neurotic diet modifications that you've written about in the
past... foolish again and certainly slightly obsessed and fearful.

On Jul 22, 4:30*pm, Mark Thorson > wrote:
>
>
> Obviously not. *Note that neither of the posters
> who advocated eating anything you want has responded
> to the issue of food-provoked modulation of the
> drug clearance mechanisms. *I happen to be rather
> familiar with these mechanisms, and I know I'm right.
> These people have propagated very bad advice that
> could send people to an early death. *Don't expect
> me to be quiet when I see fools giving such bad
> advice. *Food-drug interactions are not something
> to be dismissed lightly.

I'm going to listen to my oncologist's advice about what to eat during
chemotherapy before I'm going to listen to YOU.
If my doctor, who is writing the orders for MY chemotherapy, knows
what he's giving me and knows what I'm eating, says it was ok for ME
to eat what I was able to tolerate, with no ill effect, that's what
I'm going to do. Likewise, if he said to me "you need to avoid onions,
grapefruits and x, y and z while you're having these treatments", I
would have avoided those foods. Anyone who doesn't follow doctor's
orders during life-saving treatments is a fool. But anyone who puts
more stock in advice from a complete stranger on the internet than
from what their doctor tells them is a bigger fool. Who are you? What
makes you qualified to make these statements? Because you say so? At
least I know my oncologist's credentials.

You may be right, SOME foods probably interact with some of the chemo
drugs. But I am certain, if there was a known problem with something I
specifically told my doctor I was eating, he would have told me to
stop eating it.

"Goomba" wrote:
> Mark Thorson wrote:
>
>> Obviously not. Note that neither of the posters
>> who advocated eating anything you want has responded
>> to the issue of food-provoked modulation of the
>> drug clearance mechanisms. I happen to be rather
>> familiar with these mechanisms, and I know I'm right.
>> These people have propagated very bad advice that
>> could send people to an early death. Don't expect
>> me to be quiet when I see fools giving such bad
>> advice. Food-drug interactions are not something
>> to be dismissed lightly.
>
> Don't go patting yourself on the back so soon.
> SOME drugs are potentiated by grapefruit for example. That doesn't mean
> all drugs are. So should anyone taking any medicine give up all grapefruit
> products?
> I think most of the "advice" you give very foolish and when it comes to
> your own neurotic diet modifications that you've written about in the
> past... foolish again and certainly slightly obsessed and fearful.

What would you expect from a paranoid schizophrenic on thorazine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia#Medication

Goomba wrote:
>
> Mark Thorson wrote:
>
> > Obviously not. Note that neither of the posters
> > who advocated eating anything you want has responded
> > to the issue of food-provoked modulation of the
> > drug clearance mechanisms. I happen to be rather
> > familiar with these mechanisms, and I know I'm right.
> > These people have propagated very bad advice that
> > could send people to an early death. Don't expect
> > me to be quiet when I see fools giving such bad
> > advice. Food-drug interactions are not something
> > to be dismissed lightly.
>
> Don't go patting yourself on the back so soon.
> SOME drugs are potentiated by grapefruit for example. That doesn't mean
> all drugs are. So should anyone taking any medicine give up all
> grapefruit products?

All drugs which are transported by P-glycoprotein,
which is darn near all of them. My position is
that in the absence of certain knowledge that it is
safe, you should not eat foods known to affect drug
clearance during chemotherapy of any kind.

You position seems to be (I don't want to stuff words
in your mouth here) that in the absence of specific
information that grapefruit (or any other food known
to modulate the mechanisms of drug clearance) affects
the chemotherapy drugs you are receiving, you should
feel free to indulge in those foods.

If that's really what you advise, I consider that to be
monumentally stupid and dangerous advice. My advice
is to err on the side of caution, and avoid foods which
affect drug clearance. In my opinion, suggesting any
other course may lead to harm and even death. This is
why I feel strongly about bad medical advice being handed
out by uninformed people.

> I think most of the "advice" you give very foolish and when it comes to
> your own neurotic diet modifications that you've written about in the
> past... foolish again and certainly slightly obsessed and fearful.

Ah, the _ad_hominem_ attack. Attack the critic, not
the criticism. I've been rather clear about the issues,
and why I think you are wrong. When you run out of
logical responses to what I say, you try to smear me.

none of your business wrote:
>
> On Jul 22, 4:30 pm, Mark Thorson > wrote:
> >
> > Obviously not. Note that neither of the posters
> > who advocated eating anything you want has responded
> > to the issue of food-provoked modulation of the
> > drug clearance mechanisms. I happen to be rather
> > familiar with these mechanisms, and I know I'm right.
> > These people have propagated very bad advice that
> > could send people to an early death. Don't expect
> > me to be quiet when I see fools giving such bad
> > advice. Food-drug interactions are not something
> > to be dismissed lightly.
>
> I'm going to listen to my oncologist's advice about what to eat during
> chemotherapy before I'm going to listen to YOU.

Why don't you ask him about these issues. Ask him
if grapefruit affects drug clearance. If he doesn't
know, or if he doesn't know whether it affects it
positively or negatively, he's incompetent.

Most of the information about food-drug interactions
was published in the last 10 years. There's lots
of doctors and nurses out there who don't keep up
with their field. Professional incompetence in
medicine much more common than most people know.

> If my doctor, who is writing the orders for MY chemotherapy, knows
> what he's giving me and knows what I'm eating, says it was ok for ME
> to eat what I was able to tolerate, with no ill effect, that's what
> I'm going to do. Likewise, if he said to me "you need to avoid onions,
> grapefruits and x, y and z while you're having these treatments", I
> would have avoided those foods. Anyone who doesn't follow doctor's
> orders during life-saving treatments is a fool. But anyone who puts
> more stock in advice from a complete stranger on the internet than
> from what their doctor tells them is a bigger fool. Who are you? What
> makes you qualified to make these statements? Because you say so? At
> least I know my oncologist's credentials.

I don't ask you to trust me. If there's any aspect of
this issue you want more information about, I can cite
relevant literature in peer-reviewed medical journals.
You can have a high level of confidence in them.

> You may be right, SOME foods probably interact with some of the chemo
> drugs. But I am certain, if there was a known problem with something I
> specifically told my doctor I was eating, he would have told me to
> stop eating it.

If he knew about it. If he keeps up with the journals.
A lot of them don't.

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:38:20 -0400, Kajikit >
wrote:

>One of the ladies at church has just had her cancer come back for a
>fourth time, so naturally they're overwhelmed right now... She's
>starting treatment again this week and we want to do something to help
>them out. Amy can't have anything tomatoey because of the medication,
>so chilli, spaghetti, pizza etc are all out and they're the easiest
>meals I can think of! What are some easy-to-reheat, easy-to-make meals
>that I could take over to them? I made them a quiche yesterday and I'm
>going to make some chicken soup today to go with it (I have homemade
>broth in the fridge and I'm roasting a chicken for our dinner so I'll
>have nice fresh chicken to put in the soup).

Thanks for all the suggestions! I asked Amy about her food
restrictions when I took the soup and quiche over and she doesn't
really have any. The only reason she can't have tomato is because it's
too acid for her stomach - she has enough stomach problems from all
the treatments that she has to avoid spicy/acidic foods. So onions etc
are fine. I told her that I'll take dinner over to them once a week
while she's having her treatments, so I'm going to have fun. She
starts radiation on Monday, so say a prayer for her! If it works she
should feel better pretty soon - her tumour's pressing on a nerve in
her shoulder and causing her a lot of pain, and hopefully that'll go
away as soon as it starts to shrink.

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 13:35:58 GMT, "brooklyn1"
> wrote:

>
>"Jo Anne Slaven" wrote:
>> Kajikit wrote:
>>
>>>One of the ladies at church has just had her cancer come back for a
>>>fourth time,
>>
>> How about fried rice.
>
>Cancer back for the 4th time... what to make... how about a pitcher of 2nis
>and a will.

If it was me, I think I'd be there... cancer is my worst personal
nightmare and I know for darned sure I couldn't handle everything that
their family has been through in the last four years... but she's a
fighter. I'm sure having a young daughter has something to do with it,
but I really respect and admire her grit.

On Jul 22, 2:38*am, Kajikit > wrote:
> One of the ladies at church has just had her cancer come back for a
> fourth time, so naturally they're overwhelmed right now... She's
> starting treatment again this week and we want to do something to help
> them out. Amy can't have anything tomatoey because of the medication,
> so chilli, spaghetti, pizza etc are all out and they're the easiest
> meals I can think of! What are some easy-to-reheat, easy-to-make meals
> that I could take over to them? I made them a quiche yesterday and I'm
> going to make some chicken soup today to go with it (I have homemade
> broth in the fridge and I'm roasting a chicken for our dinner so I'll
> have nice fresh chicken to put in the soup).

This is a lovely thing to do, and best wishes to your friend. I would
suggest what others have said: soups, noodles, pasta dishes, generally
plain and non-spicy foods. Maybe a nice moist banana or orange cake as
a dessert once in a while.

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 13:30:54 -0700, Mark Thorson wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:00:33 -0400, cybercat wrote:
>>
>>> "none of your business" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>You make a lot of assumptions that none of us are qualified to make.
>>>>I went through chemo and was told to eat whatever I could tolerate.
>>>
>>> Mark is stupid and arrogant.
>>
>> but are you qualified to make that assumption?
>
> Obviously not. Note that neither of the posters
> who advocated eating anything you want has responded
> to the issue of food-provoked modulation of the
> drug clearance mechanisms. I happen to be rather
> familiar with these mechanisms, and I know I'm right.
> These people have propagated very bad advice that
> could send people to an early death. Don't expect
> me to be quiet when I see fools giving such bad
> advice. Food-drug interactions are not something
> to be dismissed lightly.

well, mark, i seem to remember you posting about a lot of things that could
kill you or make you sick that most people don't worry about.

however, to your credit, you usually provide cites, so i really can't fault
you.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT), The Ranger wrote:

> On Jul 22, 8:17*am, blake murphy > wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:00:33 -0400, cybercat wrote:
>>> Mark is stupid and arrogant.
>>
>> but are you qualified to make that assumption?
>>
> About as qualified as you making your daily assumptions.
>
> The Ranger

oh boy! now the ranger will reply to my every post, like andy did when i
slapped him around a little!

blake

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:30:53 -0400, Goomba wrote:

> Mark Thorson wrote:
>
>> Obviously not. Note that neither of the posters
>> who advocated eating anything you want has responded
>> to the issue of food-provoked modulation of the
>> drug clearance mechanisms. I happen to be rather
>> familiar with these mechanisms, and I know I'm right.
>> These people have propagated very bad advice that
>> could send people to an early death. Don't expect
>> me to be quiet when I see fools giving such bad
>> advice. Food-drug interactions are not something
>> to be dismissed lightly.
>
> Don't go patting yourself on the back so soon.
> SOME drugs are potentiated by grapefruit for example. That doesn't mean
> all drugs are. So should anyone taking any medicine give up all
> grapefruit products?

well, i drink a lot of grapefruit juice, but i don't take any drugs but
ibuprofen. is there a site outlining metabolic effects on regular people?

your pal,
blake

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
news
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 13:30:54 -0700, Mark Thorson wrote:
>
>> blake murphy wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:00:33 -0400, cybercat wrote:
>>>
>>>> "none of your business" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>You make a lot of assumptions that none of us are qualified to make.
>>>>>I went through chemo and was told to eat whatever I could tolerate.
>>>>
>>>> Mark is stupid and arrogant.
>>>
>>> but are you qualified to make that assumption?
>>
>> Obviously not. Note that neither of the posters
>> who advocated eating anything you want has responded
>> to the issue of food-provoked modulation of the
>> drug clearance mechanisms. I happen to be rather
>> familiar with these mechanisms, and I know I'm right.
>> These people have propagated very bad advice that
>> could send people to an early death. Don't expect
>> me to be quiet when I see fools giving such bad
>> advice. Food-drug interactions are not something
>> to be dismissed lightly.
>
> well, mark, i seem to remember you posting about a lot of things that
> could
> kill you or make you sick that most people don't worry about.
>
> however, to your credit, you usually provide cites, so i really can't
> fault
> you.
I had to kf him for all the MAN DIES FROM OLD TACO! subject lines he did for
a while.

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 02:42:24 GMT, brooklyn1 wrote:

> "Goomba" wrote:
>> Mark Thorson wrote:
>>
>>> Obviously not. Note that neither of the posters
>>> who advocated eating anything you want has responded
>>> to the issue of food-provoked modulation of the
>>> drug clearance mechanisms. I happen to be rather
>>> familiar with these mechanisms, and I know I'm right.
>>> These people have propagated very bad advice that
>>> could send people to an early death. Don't expect
>>> me to be quiet when I see fools giving such bad
>>> advice. Food-drug interactions are not something
>>> to be dismissed lightly.
>>
>> Don't go patting yourself on the back so soon.
>> SOME drugs are potentiated by grapefruit for example. That doesn't mean
>> all drugs are. So should anyone taking any medicine give up all grapefruit
>> products?
>> I think most of the "advice" you give very foolish and when it comes to
>> your own neurotic diet modifications that you've written about in the
>> past... foolish again and certainly slightly obsessed and fearful.
>
> What would you expect from a paranoid schizophrenic on thorazine.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia#Medication

what then should we expect from a paranoid schizophrenic who is *not* on
thorazine?

blake

blake murphy > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT), The Ranger wrote:
>> On Jul 22, 8:17 am, blake murphy > wrote:
>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:00:33 -0400, cybercat wrote:
>>>> Mark is stupid and arrogant.

>>> but are you qualified to make that assumption?
>>>
>> About as qualified as you making your daily assumptions.
>>
> oh boy! now the ranger will reply to my every post, like andy did when i
> slapped him around a little!
>
Sure. Why not.

The Ranger

blake murphy > wrote in message
...
[snip]
> what then should we expect from a paranoid schizophrenic
> who is *not* on thorazine?

Something along the lines like you. Imagined demons and devils around every
corner and darkness drawing your white knight's single-lined ire.

The Ranger

blake murphy wrote:

>> SOME drugs are potentiated by grapefruit for example. That doesn't mean
>> all drugs are. So should anyone taking any medicine give up all
>> grapefruit products?
>
> well, i drink a lot of grapefruit juice, but i don't take any drugs but
> ibuprofen. is there a site outlining metabolic effects on regular people?
>
> your pal,
> blake

Here ya go. a nice little cite/site for you-
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FS088

blake murphy wrote:
>
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:30:53 -0400, Goomba wrote:
>
> > Mark Thorson wrote:
> >
> >> Obviously not. Note that neither of the posters
> >> who advocated eating anything you want has responded
> >> to the issue of food-provoked modulation of the
> >> drug clearance mechanisms. I happen to be rather
> >> familiar with these mechanisms, and I know I'm right.
> >> These people have propagated very bad advice that
> >> could send people to an early death. Don't expect
> >> me to be quiet when I see fools giving such bad
> >> advice. Food-drug interactions are not something
> >> to be dismissed lightly.
> >
> > Don't go patting yourself on the back so soon.
> > SOME drugs are potentiated by grapefruit for example. That doesn't mean
> > all drugs are. So should anyone taking any medicine give up all
> > grapefruit products?
>
> well, i drink a lot of grapefruit juice, but i don't take any drugs but
> ibuprofen. is there a site outlining metabolic effects on regular people?

I'm not aware of any, but I haven't gone looking
for one. I get most of my information through PubMed,
both the abstracts and the full articles which I
obtain at a local medical school library. I've
got a couple file boxes of papers on drug clearance
mechanisms.

Food is an important modulator, but the problem is
much more serious for certain herbs. St. John's Wort
strongly activates drug clearance mechanisms, to the
extent that it has provoked rejection in organ
transplant recipients taking cyclosporin and failure
of birth control drugs.

Mark Thorson wrote:

> I'm not aware of any, but I haven't gone looking
> for one. I get most of my information through PubMed,
> both the abstracts and the full articles which I
> obtain at a local medical school library. I've
> got a couple file boxes of papers on drug clearance
> mechanisms.

Have you heard the phrase cyberchondriac yet?

You seem to fit the bill.

The Ranger wrote:

> blake murphy > wrote in message
> ...
> [snip]
>> what then should we expect from a paranoid schizophrenic
>> who is *not* on thorazine?
>
> Something along the lines like you. Imagined demons and devils around
> every corner and darkness drawing your white knight's single-lined
> ire.


That's what blake imagines about Republicans, lol...


--
Best
Greg

Goomba wrote:
>
> blake murphy wrote:
>
> >> SOME drugs are potentiated by grapefruit for example. That doesn't mean
> >> all drugs are. So should anyone taking any medicine give up all
> >> grapefruit products?
> >
> > well, i drink a lot of grapefruit juice, but i don't take any drugs but
> > ibuprofen. is there a site outlining metabolic effects on regular people?
> >
> > your pal,
> > blake
>
> Here ya go. a nice little cite/site for you-
> http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FS088

That list is dangerously incomplete. It appears
to have been compiled strictly from studies on
interactions between specific drugs and grapefruit
juice, and even with this restriction the list is
incomplete. For example, colchicine is not listed,
even though it has this interaction. Most drugs
have not been studied for their interaction with
grapefruit juice, and it would be an enormous
mistake to assume that in the absence of data
no interaction will occur.

The mechanism by which grapefruit juice interacts
with drugs is known -- it modulates P-gp.
Therefore any drug known to be a P-gp substrate
should be considered to have an interaction
unless studies show it does not. Nearly all
cancer chemotherapy drugs are known to be
P-gp substrates. I don't know of any chemotherapy
drug which is not a P-gp substrate, but I suppose
they might exist.

Also, that web site says "Juices from oranges or
other citrus fruits do not interact with medications
in the same way." That's not true. Orange juice
also contains the compound in grapefruit juice
responsible for modulating P-gp. It contains
less of it, so it would be reasonable to say the
risk is lower, but it is not reasonable to say
this interaction doesn't occur at all.

Goomba wrote:
>
> Mark Thorson wrote:
>
> > I'm not aware of any, but I haven't gone looking
> > for one. I get most of my information through PubMed,
> > both the abstracts and the full articles which I
> > obtain at a local medical school library. I've
> > got a couple file boxes of papers on drug clearance
> > mechanisms.
>
> Have you heard the phrase cyberchondriac yet?
>
> You seem to fit the bill.

This is how you respond when your ill-considered
advice is criticized. You attack the critic,
not the criticism, in a vain attempt to draw
attention off your bad advice. Your bad advice
could easily result in harm, and you don't seem
to care a bit about that. You seem to lack
moral character.

"Gregory Morrow" > wrote in message
m...
> The Ranger wrote:
>
>> blake murphy > wrote in message
>> ...
>> [snip]
>>> what then should we expect from a paranoid schizophrenic
>>> who is *not* on thorazine?
>>
>> Something along the lines like you. Imagined demons and devils around
>> every corner and darkness drawing your white knight's single-lined
>> ire.
>
>
> That's what blake imagines about Republicans, lol...
>
No he doesn't. He imagines inept buffoons.

Mark Thorson wrote:

>> Here ya go. a nice little cite/site for you-
>> http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FS088
>
> That list is dangerously incomplete. It appears
> to have been compiled strictly from studies on
> interactions between specific drugs and grapefruit
> juice, and even with this restriction the list is
> incomplete. For example, colchicine is not listed,
> even though it has this interaction. Most drugs
> have not been studied for their interaction with
> grapefruit juice, and it would be an enormous
> mistake to assume that in the absence of data
> no interaction will occur.
>
> The mechanism by which grapefruit juice interacts
> with drugs is known -- it modulates P-gp.
> Therefore any drug known to be a P-gp substrate
> should be considered to have an interaction
> unless studies show it does not. Nearly all
> cancer chemotherapy drugs are known to be
> P-gp substrates. I don't know of any chemotherapy
> drug which is not a P-gp substrate, but I suppose
> they might exist.


Oddly, The American Cancer Society doesn't seem to feel any need to
advise cancer patients of this and advises that a varied diet as
tolerated is the goal to entice appetite and provide the best nutrition
to support treatment. Go figure.

Otherwise, the list is pretty darn complete from what I can tell.

Mark Thorson wrote:

>> Have you heard the phrase cyberchondriac yet?
>>
>> You seem to fit the bill.
>
> This is how you respond when your ill-considered
> advice is criticized. You attack the critic,
> not the criticism, in a vain attempt to draw
> attention off your bad advice. Your bad advice
> could easily result in harm, and you don't seem
> to care a bit about that. You seem to lack
> moral character.

Apparently multiple licensing and certifying boards feel differently
than you. <shrug>

I truly don't believe you understand what research cites you dig up. And
your paranoia over far too many foods makes you a very unreliable reference.

Goomba wrote:
>
> Apparently multiple licensing and certifying boards feel differently
> than you. <shrug>

Cite one that explicitly says it's okay to eat
grapefruit during chemotherapy. Post a link and
I'll read it.

> I truly don't believe you understand what research cites you dig up. And
> your paranoia over far too many foods makes you a very unreliable reference.

You interpret good advice as "paranoia" because
you are ignorant. You are not familiar with drug
clearance mechanisms or the interactions of food
with those mechanisms. You are not competent
to give advice on what foods to avoid.

I suppose you think these people are paranoid, too:

http://cancer.med.upenn.edu/experts/...&ss=14&id=1840

Grapefruit can block the activity of an enzyme
in the intestine that is involved in the metabolism
of certain medications. Because the medications can't
be broken down, blood levels may rise and become toxic.
Drugs that are affected include cholesterol lowering
medications, beta-blockers for high blood pressure,
some psychiatric medicines, immuno-suppressants, and
protease inhibitors. The only chemotherapy drug that
grapefruit is definitely known to interact with is
Vincristine. However, there are concerns about the
interaction of grapefruit with other chemotherapy
drugs based on our knowledge of the way they function.
If you regularly eat grapefruit or drink grapefruit
juice, ask your doctor or pharmacist about possible
medication and chemotherapy drug interactions. Other
citrus foods and juices, such as orange juice, do not
appear to interfere with medication metabolism.


http://www.wyeth.com/oncology

St. John's Wort may decrease TORISEL plasma concentrations,
and grapefruit juice may increase plasma concentrations
of the major metabolite of TORISEL, and therefore both
should be avoided.

[Note that TORISEL brand temsirolimus is a cancer
chemotherapy drug.]


http://www.clinicaltrial.gov/ct2/show/NCT00392886

No concurrent dairy products or grapefruit juice
with temozolomide administration

[Note that temozolomide is a cancer chemotherapy drug.]


http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dru...ation/DR601855

Grapefruits and grapefruit juice may increase
the effects of imatinib by increasing the amount
of this medicine in your body. You should not eat
grapefruit or drink grapefruit juice while you are
taking this medicine.

[Note that imatinib is a cancer chemotherapy drug.]


Here we have examples of a university medical school,
large pharmaceutical manufacturer, the U.S. government,
and the Mayo clinic all recommending not to drink
grapefruit juice during cancer chemotherapy.

There are only two possibilities: all of these
institutions share my paranoia, or you don't have
a clue what you are talking about. You hand out
very bad advice, and when confronted with the facts,
you persist in your bad advice without regard to
the harm you may do. People could actually die
because of your incompetent advice.

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:58:49 -0400, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>I had to kf him for all the MAN DIES FROM OLD TACO! subject lines he did for
>a while.

OMG... you *do* use your kill file. LOL! I don't remember the topic,
so I must have killed the subject.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:35:08 -0700, The Ranger wrote:

> blake murphy > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT), The Ranger wrote:
>>> On Jul 22, 8:17 am, blake murphy > wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:00:33 -0400, cybercat wrote:
>>>>> Mark is stupid and arrogant.
>
>>>> but are you qualified to make that assumption?
>>>>
>>> About as qualified as you making your daily assumptions.
>>>
>> oh boy! now the ranger will reply to my every post, like andy did when i
>> slapped him around a little!
>>
> Sure. Why not.
>
> The Ranger

well, i guess fact that it makes you look stupid won't deter you, then.

blake

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:35:29 -0400, Goomba wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>
>>> SOME drugs are potentiated by grapefruit for example. That doesn't mean
>>> all drugs are. So should anyone taking any medicine give up all
>>> grapefruit products?
>>
>> well, i drink a lot of grapefruit juice, but i don't take any drugs but
>> ibuprofen. is there a site outlining metabolic effects on regular people?
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> Here ya go. a nice little cite/site for you-
> http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FS088

well, i don't see ibuprofen, so so far, so good.

thanks.

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:41:24 -0700, The Ranger wrote:

> blake murphy > wrote in message
> ...
> [snip]
>> what then should we expect from a paranoid schizophrenic
>> who is *not* on thorazine?
>
> Something along the lines like you. Imagined demons and devils around every
> corner and darkness drawing your white knight's single-lined ire.
>
> The Ranger

yep, that's me.

blake

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:10:10 -0500, Gregory Morrow wrote:

> The Ranger wrote:
>
>> blake murphy > wrote in message
>> ...
>> [snip]
>>> what then should we expect from a paranoid schizophrenic
>>> who is *not* on thorazine?
>>
>> Something along the lines like you. Imagined demons and devils around
>> every corner and darkness drawing your white knight's single-lined
>> ire.
>
> That's what blake imagines about Republicans, lol...

all i know is what i read in the paper. that seems to be enough.

will

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:44:08 -0400, cybercat wrote:

> "Gregory Morrow" > wrote in message
> m...
>> The Ranger wrote:
>>
>>> blake murphy > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> [snip]
>>>> what then should we expect from a paranoid schizophrenic
>>>> who is *not* on thorazine?
>>>
>>> Something along the lines like you. Imagined demons and devils around
>>> every corner and darkness drawing your white knight's single-lined
>>> ire.
>>
>>
>> That's what blake imagines about Republicans, lol...
>>
> No he doesn't. He imagines inept buffoons.

what do you mean *imagines*?

your pal,
blake

blake murphy > brayed in message
...
[snip]

Damn you got me.

The Ranger

blake murphy > wrote in message
.. .
> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:41:24 -0700, The Ranger wrote:
>> blake murphy > wrote in message
>> ...
>> [snip]
>>> what then should we expect from a paranoid schizophrenic
>>> who is *not* on thorazine?
>>
>> Something along the lines like you. Imagined demons
>> and devils around every corner and darkness drawing
>> your white knight's single-lined ire.
>>
> yep, that's me.

It's more obvious with every post but keep responding. I love seeing just
how far you're willing to go.

The Ranger

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
| On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:35:29 -0400, Goomba wrote:
|
| > blake murphy wrote:
| >
| >>> SOME drugs are potentiated by grapefruit for example. That doesn't mean
| >>> all drugs are. So should anyone taking any medicine give up all
| >>> grapefruit products?
| >>
| >> well, i drink a lot of grapefruit juice, but i don't take any drugs but
| >> ibuprofen. is there a site outlining metabolic effects on regular people?
| >>
| >> your pal,
| >> blake
| >
| > Here ya go. a nice little cite/site for you-
| > http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FS088
|
| well, i don't see ibuprofen, so so far, so good.

Right, the normal medical sites say there is no conflict.
But that IFAS list is incomplete. Doesn't list verapamil
HCl, for one, that definitely interacts with grapefruit.
Surprising, since they have such a good football team.

pavane

"Kajikit" wrote

> One of the ladies at church has just had her cancer come back for a
> fourth time, so naturally they're overwhelmed right now... She's

> them out. Amy can't have anything tomatoey because of the medication,

Hi! Back online at last (blew a computer). Recipes on the other machine as
MM doesnt like Vista very much.

Either way, I didnt try to read all the thread but a spot check shows some
sense and some not as sensible, due to lack of information. In this case,
there isnt enough information to tell if there is anything special to her
diet than 'no tomatoes'. It depends on the type of treatment and meds she's
on, and the type of cancer. Some are meat restricted, some arent. Some
cant have soy, others can. Some need lots of yogurt and others can't have
it.

Do you know more on what her restrictions are? Meantime chicken soup and
pasta dishes are *probably* ok. The list of 'probably ok' is fairly
extensive but almost everything on it, could be contra-indicated by certain
types of cancer, and the type of treatment with chemo being the most diet
limiting 'type of treatment'. (no chocolate!)

Even how much spice to use and which ones can vary. If Amy was used to a
high spice diet, she will lose appetite on things too underspiced so 'going
bland' may not be the ticket.

Ok, 'rule of thumb for most':

High protien (not for Kidney cancers!)
Fairly bland (no soy if estrogen related cancers and treatments)
Low Acid (tomatoes, also citrus)
Fruit restrictions with normally ok being apples, bannanas, pears, canned
peaches (not fresh)
High carb if needing to gain weight

Assuming she is on chemo and possibly radiation treatment as well, low
weight due to 4th occurance, but not kidney, esophogeal, or stomach cancers:

Poultry based soups with rice and/or noodles (if milk products not allowed,
check to see if coconut milks are allowed as you can do a cream base with
them)

mini-marshmellows may be a weight gain 'allowed' as well as solving it if
she has a sweet tooth (chocolate normally not allowed)

Peanut butter sauces for pasta which pack in protien and carbs and are easy
on the mouth (use smooth only, Amy may have roof of the mouth problems from
the chemo)

Fresh water fish (salt water may be allowed too)- a good recipe is cooked,
flaked, mixed with plain yogurt or if yogurt not allowed, mayo, minced
cucumber and minced celery, small chopped green onion tops or chives. This
can be a dip or a samwich spread.

Steak meats cooked medium rare to rare (ask her how she likes them) and cut
bitesize, softer cuts that are well marbled. Potroasts and southern pulled
pork roasts. Sauce the pulled roasts with a vinegar-soy (if no estrogen
involvement). Tumeric and Annato come to mind as possibly to be avoided but
small amounts may be ok.

Stepping in on this thread....

I'd feed a cancer patient whatever they wanted.

Andy

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:30:32 -0700, The Ranger wrote:

> blake murphy > wrote in message
> .. .
>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:41:24 -0700, The Ranger wrote:
>>> blake murphy > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> [snip]
>>>> what then should we expect from a paranoid schizophrenic
>>>> who is *not* on thorazine?
>>>
>>> Something along the lines like you. Imagined demons
>>> and devils around every corner and darkness drawing
>>> your white knight's single-lined ire.
>>>
>> yep, that's me.
>
> It's more obvious with every post but keep responding. I love seeing just
> how far you're willing to go.
>
> The Ranger

yeah, you look more brilliant with your every response.

blake