cybercat wrote:
>
> "Ophelia" > wrote
> > I use Woll pans and cookware. They never stick and they don't have any
> > coating. Expensive, but have never had to replace one. They are made in
> > Germany and I can only buy them online or at exhibitions.
> >
> Never heard of them, but I will look. Sometimes Marshall's has imported
> stuff, but I am sure not this kind, it sounds exclusive. I got an amazing
> indestructible cookie sheet there, it was German too.

Marshall's / Homegoods is a very good source of cookware. ~1/3 the cost
of new for a tiny little flaw that you would put in the item in the
first week of use anyway. I got a lot of nice Calphalon there, and even
one of the few SS items I have, a "wee little saucepan" which is about
18" dia and holds about 4gal. It's SS, but the bottom is about 3/4"
thick which helps with the thermal issues.

"pavane" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
> ...
> | Sheldon wrote:
> |
> | > Stainless steel, carbon steel, and aluminum is all you'll see in
> | > professional/commercial kitchens... in most instances it's the law...
> even
> | > cutlery must be stainless steel, no carbon steel cutlery permitted...
> no
> | > cast iron cookware permitted, no non-stick coated cookware permitted,
> no
> | > porcelain cookware permitted, no wooden work surfaces permitted
> either.
> |
> | What a load of bullshit! You obviously know nothing about commercial or
> | professional kitchens, and even less about regulations for them.
> |
> | There's not ONE SINGLE TRUE STATEMENT in all of what you wrote.
>
> He's sort of like the Energizer Bunny in reverse. Every time he says
> something he takes energy (truth, knowledge, understanding) OUT of the
> world and deposits in its place something that would be better off in
> a litter box or compost heap. Pathetic, sad and regurgatory. But
> remember.
> he says "it's the law." Gaagh.
>
> pavane

Anyone have the actual regulations? Rather than make accusations, facts
would help. I do know most equipment has to meet NSF requirements, such as
knives with no wooden handles.

Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>
> Sheldon wrote:
>
> > Stainless steel, carbon steel, and aluminum is all you'll see in
> > professional/commercial kitchens... in most instances it's the law... even
> > cutlery must be stainless steel, no carbon steel cutlery permitted... no
> > cast iron cookware permitted, no non-stick coated cookware permitted, no
> > porcelain cookware permitted, no wooden work surfaces permitted either.
>
> What a load of bullshit! You obviously know nothing about commercial or
> professional kitchens, and even less about regulations for them.
>
> There's not ONE SINGLE TRUE STATEMENT in all of what you wrote.
>
> Bob

No, this line was true: "What you see on foodtv is not a professional
kitchen, their cooking
equipment is meant for the home kitchen". What you see on foodtv is what
the commercial sponsors provide for advertising so it's the
"professional style" overpriced consumer items.

Ed wrote:

>>> Stainless steel, carbon steel, and aluminum is all you'll see in
>>> professional/commercial kitchens... in most instances it's the law...
>>> even cutlery must be stainless steel, no carbon steel cutlery
>>> permitted... no cast iron cookware permitted, no non-stick coated
>>> cookware permitted, no porcelain cookware permitted, no wooden work
>>> surfaces permitted either.
>> |
>> | What a load of bullshit! You obviously know nothing about commercial or
>> | professional kitchens, and even less about regulations for them.
>> |
>> | There's not ONE SINGLE TRUE STATEMENT in all of what you wrote.
>
> Anyone have the actual regulations? Rather than make accusations, facts
> would help. I do know most equipment has to meet NSF requirements, such
> as knives with no wooden handles.

Here's one I found easily:

http://www.oregon.gov/ODA/FSD/reg_fc_index.shtml

Let's just look at what it says about cast iron:

4-101.12 Cast Iron, Use Limitation.
(A) Except as specified in ¶¶ (B) and (C) of this section, cast iron may not
be used for utensils or foodcontact surfaces of equipment.
(B) Cast iron may be used as a surface for cooking.
(C) Cast iron may be used in utensils for serving food if the utensils are
used only as part of an uninterrupted process from cooking through service.

How about that... It says that Sheldon is full of shit!

So how about wood? It says this:

4-101.19 Wood, Use Limitation.
(A) Except as specified in ¶¶ (B), (C), and (D) of this section, wood and
wood wicker may not be used as a food-contact surface.
(B) Hard maple or an equivalently hard, close-grained wood may be used for:
(1) Cutting boards; cutting blocks; bakers' tables; and utensils such as
rolling pins, doughnut dowels, salad bowls, and chopsticks; and
(2) Wooden paddles used in confectionery operations for pressure scraping
kettles when manually preparing confections at a temperature of 110oC
(230oF) or above.
(C) Whole, uncut, raw fruits and vegetables, and nuts in the shell may be
kept in the wood shipping containers in which they were received, until the
fruits, vegetables, or nuts are used.
(D) If the nature of the food requires removal of rinds, peels, husks, or
shells before consumption, the whole, uncut, raw food may be kept in:
(1) Untreated wood containers; or
(2) Treated wood containers if the containers are treated with a
preservative that meets the requirements specified in 21 CFR 178.3800
Preservatives for wood.

To nobody's surprise, it *also* says that Sheldon is full of shit!

And that nonstick bugaboo? The code says:

4-101.110 Nonstick Coatings, Use Limitation.
Multiuse kitchenware such as frying pans, griddles, sauce pans, cookie
sheets, and waffle bakers that have a perfluorocarbon resin coating shall be
used with nonscoring or nonscratching utensils and cleaning aids.

I do believe that translates as, "Sheldon is full of shit!"

Feel free to browse around and see how Sheldon LIED ABOUT EVERYTHING.

Bob

aem wrote:

> Sheldon wrote:
>>> Stainless steel, carbon steel, and aluminum is all you'll see in
>>> professional/commercial kitchens... in most instances it's the law...
>>> even cutlery must be stainless steel, no carbon steel cutlery
>>> permitted... no cast iron cookware permitted, no non-stick coated
>>> cookware permitted, no porcelain cookware permitted, no wooden work
>>> surfaces permitted either.
>>
>> What a load of bullshit! You obviously know nothing about commercial or
>> professional kitchens, and even less about regulations for them.
>>
>> There's not ONE SINGLE TRUE STATEMENT in all of what you wrote.
>>
> And your information source is what? I don't know about various state
> laws, I'd be surprised if the majority legislate against nonstick or cast
> iron or porcelain. Then again it wouldn't surprise me if some did. I
> have been in a number of restaurant and institutional kitchens and
> aluminum is by far the most prevalent cookware. I have seen stainless
> steel cookware, too. I've never seen nonstick cookware in commercial
> kitchens. Have you, or are you just yelling? -aem


See my reply to Ed. If you Google *.gov and "food code" you can probably
find that same data for many other states, though I don't know whether *all*
of them have that available online.

Bob

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
...
> Ophelia wrote:
>
>>>> I use Woll pans and cookware. They never stick and they don't have
>>>> any coating. Expensive, but have never had to replace one. They are
>>>> made in Germany and I can only buy them online or at exhibitions.
>>>>
>>> Never heard of them, but I will look. Sometimes Marshall's has
>>> imported stuff, but I am sure not this kind, it sounds exclusive. I
>>> got an amazing indestructible cookie sheet there, it was German too.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ2NH_KEEq8
>
> That video shows you to be a liar. You wrote "they don't have any
> coating,"
> yet the video clearly states, "Aluminum-titanium oxides or diamond
> crystals
> are then applied to the cut and ground body". That's a COATING, you dunce!
> What the **** did *you* think it was, if not a coating?

As most people here, with even half a brain would know, I was talking about
the nonstick coatings that scratch off.

Now take your filthy mouth off and leave me alone!

Ophelia wrote:

>>>>> I use Woll pans and cookware. They never stick and they don't have
>>>>> any coating. Expensive, but have never had to replace one. They are
>>>>> made in Germany and I can only buy them online or at exhibitions.
>>>>>
>>>> Never heard of them, but I will look. Sometimes Marshall's has
>>>> imported stuff, but I am sure not this kind, it sounds exclusive. I
>>>> got an amazing indestructible cookie sheet there, it was German too.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ2NH_KEEq8
>>
>> That video shows you to be a liar. You wrote "they don't have any
>> coating," yet the video clearly states, "Aluminum-titanium oxides or
>> diamond crystals are then applied to the cut and ground body". That's a
>> COATING, you dunce! What the **** did *you* think it was, if not a
>> coating?
>
> As most people here, with even half a brain would know, I was talking
> about the nonstick coatings that scratch off.

Most people with half a brain would have been able to write what they meant,
instead of writing something patently false, and assuming other people would
know what they meant. Take some responsibility, bitch!


> Now take your filthy mouth off and leave me alone!

Now try to *think* before you post again! If it takes a year or more, the
quality of your posts can't help but improve.

Bob

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
...
> Ophelia wrote:
>
>>>>>> I use Woll pans and cookware. They never stick and they don't have
>>>>>> any coating. Expensive, but have never had to replace one. They are
>>>>>> made in Germany and I can only buy them online or at exhibitions.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Never heard of them, but I will look. Sometimes Marshall's has
>>>>> imported stuff, but I am sure not this kind, it sounds exclusive. I
>>>>> got an amazing indestructible cookie sheet there, it was German too.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ2NH_KEEq8
>>>
>>> That video shows you to be a liar. You wrote "they don't have any
>>> coating," yet the video clearly states, "Aluminum-titanium oxides or
>>> diamond crystals are then applied to the cut and ground body". That's a
>>> COATING, you dunce! What the **** did *you* think it was, if not a
>>> coating?
>>
>> As most people here, with even half a brain would know, I was talking
>> about the nonstick coatings that scratch off.
>
> Most people with half a brain would have been able to write what they
> meant,
> instead of writing something patently false, and assuming other people
> would
> know what they meant. Take some responsibility, bitch!
>
>
>> Now take your filthy mouth off and leave me alone!
>
> Now try to *think* before you post again! If it takes a year or more, the
> quality of your posts can't help but improve.

*smile*

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> I use Woll pans and cookware. They never stick and they don't have
>>>>>>> any coating. Expensive, but have never had to replace one. They are
>>>>>>> made in Germany and I can only buy them online or at exhibitions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Never heard of them, but I will look. Sometimes Marshall's has
>>>>>> imported stuff, but I am sure not this kind, it sounds exclusive. I
>>>>>> got an amazing indestructible cookie sheet there, it was German too.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ2NH_KEEq8
>>>>
>>>> That video shows you to be a liar. You wrote "they don't have any
>>>> coating," yet the video clearly states, "Aluminum-titanium oxides or
>>>> diamond crystals are then applied to the cut and ground body". That's
>>>> a
>>>> COATING, you dunce! What the **** did *you* think it was, if not a
>>>> coating?
>>>
>>> As most people here, with even half a brain would know, I was talking
>>> about the nonstick coatings that scratch off.
>>
>> Most people with half a brain would have been able to write what they
>> meant,
>> instead of writing something patently false, and assuming other people
>> would
>> know what they meant. Take some responsibility, bitch!
>>
>>
>>> Now take your filthy mouth off and leave me alone!
>>
>> Now try to *think* before you post again! If it takes a year or more, the
>> quality of your posts can't help but improve.
>
> *smile*

I knew what you meant.

Bob's hitting the Mad Dog again. Lovely man, int he?

"cyberpurrs" > wrote in message
...
> I knew what you meant.

The point is that I didn't NEED to write a full description *because* I
posted the URL!

Never mind. He certainly isn't someone I shall lose sleep over

Ophelia wrote:
> cybercat wrote:
>> "Ophelia" > wrote
>>> I use Woll pans and cookware. They never stick and they don't have
>>> any coating. Expensive, but have never had to replace one. They are
>>> made in Germany and I can only buy them online or at exhibitions.
>>>
>> Never heard of them, but I will look. Sometimes Marshall's has
>> imported stuff, but I am sure not this kind, it sounds exclusive. I
>> got an amazing indestructible cookie sheet there, it was German too.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ2NH_KEEq8
>
>

Nice video. Interesting high tech coating. Near as I can see, the all
aluminum construction would still be prone to warping, although the demo
had the pan at a very high heat. A problem is the phenolic resin handle
- I need an ovenproof handle. I like the plasma applied coating - that's
gotta be very tough. The major problem with me is likely to be the price
- if it's much above $30, I probably wouldn't purchase one.

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
> Nice video. Interesting high tech coating. Near as I can see, the all
> aluminum construction would still be prone to warping, although the demo
> had the pan at a very high heat.

I have had some for a few years now and have never had a problem with the
heat.

>A problem is the phenolic resin handle - I need an ovenproof handle.

All the handles clip on. Over the years the handles have become better, so
I just use the newer ones on whichever pan I am using.
I use my pans as often in the oven as on the top. I have a big square one
which is becoming too heavy for me to lift by the handle, so now I use it
only for the oven.

I like the plasma applied coating - that's
> gotta be very tough. The major problem with me is likely to be the price -
> if it's much above $30, I probably wouldn't purchase one.

Yes, they are expensive. I have built mine up over several years. But then
I have never had to replace one either. I use all metal kitchen tools too
and have never damaged one.

Ophelia wrote:
> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>
>> A problem is the phenolic resin handle - I need an ovenproof handle.
>
> All the handles clip on. Over the years the handles have become better, so
> I just use the newer ones on whichever pan I am using.
> I use my pans as often in the oven as on the top. I have a big square one
> which is becoming too heavy for me to lift by the handle, so now I use it
> only for the oven.

A quick release clip-on handle that one could detach when placed in the
oven and attached quickly and positively in the over would be a great
innovation. As far as I know, there are none that will work this way -
probably for safety reasons. My guess is that there are no phenolic
handles that can handle anything above 350 degrees on the market - you'd
think someone could come up with a handle rated for 450 degrees, a
measly 100 degrees higher. :-)

>
> I like the plasma applied coating - that's
>> gotta be very tough. The major problem with me is likely to be the price -
>> if it's much above $30, I probably wouldn't purchase one.
>
> Yes, they are expensive. I have built mine up over several years. But then
> I have never had to replace one either. I use all metal kitchen tools too
> and have never damaged one.
>
>

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
>> A quick release clip-on handle that one could detach when placed in the
> oven and attached quickly and positively in the over would be a great
> innovation.

LOL, you have described exactly how I do use them As I said, the only pan
I don't use in this way, is because is has become too heavy to carry just by
the handle.


As far as I know, there are none that will work this way -
> probably for safety reasons. My guess is that there are no phenolic
> handles that can handle anything above 350 degrees on the market - you'd
> think someone could come up with a handle rated for 450 degrees, a measly
> 100 degrees higher. :-)

Well it is not something I need to worry about. I just unclip mine

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:10:29 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
>cybercat wrote:
>>
>> "Ophelia" > wrote
>> > I use Woll pans and cookware. They never stick and they don't have any
>> > coating. Expensive, but have never had to replace one. They are made in
>> > Germany and I can only buy them online or at exhibitions.
>> >
>> Never heard of them, but I will look. Sometimes Marshall's has imported
>> stuff, but I am sure not this kind, it sounds exclusive. I got an amazing
>> indestructible cookie sheet there, it was German too.
>
>Marshall's / Homegoods is a very good source of cookware. ~1/3 the cost
>of new for a tiny little flaw that you would put in the item in the
>first week of use anyway. I got a lot of nice Calphalon there, and even
>one of the few SS items I have, a "wee little saucepan" which is about
>18" dia and holds about 4gal. It's SS, but the bottom is about 3/4"
>thick which helps with the thermal issues.

TJ Max does too. Yesterday I bought an All Clad French skillet. It has
one little mark on it and it was at least half of what it would have
been.
I'm going back into town today so I might as well check out Marshall's
also. Can't have too much cookware. ;-)

koko

--

There is no love more sincere than the love of food
George Bernard Shaw
www.kokoscorner.typepad.com
updated 08/02

On Aug 5, 3:01*pm, aem > wrote:
> On Aug 5, 5:34*am, Becca > wrote:> Here is a message from one of my friends. *Any advice?
>
> > * * * **"I purchased a new stainless pan, made by calphalon, - the fish
> > * * * and eggs stuck to it - what a mess, what did I do wrong? Do I have
> > * * * to season a new stainless pan??"**
>
> Tell her not to worry about seasoning, just adapt her cooking
> technique. *Heat the pan first, then add oil to coat the bottom of the
> pan, then the food. *Lay it in and leave it alone, do not try to move
> it around prematurely. *When it has cooked and adequately dried/
> crusted, it will release from the pan without undue sticking.
> Stainless steel is a great pan and saucepan material, you just have to
> learn through experience how it works. *I routinely cook fish fillets
>i and steaks in the ss pan. *For eggs I use a small nonstick that I
> bought just for eggs, so I'm not anti-nonstick entirely. *But ss is
> far superior for almost everything else. * * *-aem

Great reply.

I still kick myself for selling my Farberware SS chicken fryer and 5
qt. pot.
Fortunately I kept the double boiler and 1 1/2 qt. saucepan which have
each been used probably 5,000 times. What non-stick can be claimed to
have done that kind of service?

Steve Pope wrote:
>
> Pete C. > wrote:
>
> >Steve Pope wrote:
>
> >> Pete C. > wrote:
>
> >>>It's highly overstated and simply not "real" for anyone who knows how to
> >>>cook. The critical temperature is about 600F and normal cooking doesn't
> >>>get anywhere near that hot.
>
> >> So all the pizza ovens in Italy are abnormal?
>
> >Do you normally use a frying pan in a pizza oven? I didn't think so...
>
> Italians routinely stick a pan into the pizza oven,
> if they want to make say a smoked/baked pasta dish.
>
> I don't have a pizza oven so I've never done it.
>
> Steve

Not a non-stick coated pan generally. Again, someone who knows how to
cook doesn't use a non-stick coated pan for any use remotely approaching
600 degrees, that simply isn't what they are for.

Ophelia wrote:
>
> "Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Ophelia wrote:
> >
> >>>> I use Woll pans and cookware. They never stick and they don't have
> >>>> any coating. Expensive, but have never had to replace one. They are
> >>>> made in Germany and I can only buy them online or at exhibitions.
> >>>>
> >>> Never heard of them, but I will look. Sometimes Marshall's has
> >>> imported stuff, but I am sure not this kind, it sounds exclusive. I
> >>> got an amazing indestructible cookie sheet there, it was German too.
> >>
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ2NH_KEEq8
> >
> > That video shows you to be a liar. You wrote "they don't have any
> > coating,"
> > yet the video clearly states, "Aluminum-titanium oxides or diamond
> > crystals
> > are then applied to the cut and ground body". That's a COATING, you dunce!
> > What the **** did *you* think it was, if not a coating?
>
> As most people here, with even half a brain would know, I was talking about
> the nonstick coatings that scratch off.
>
> Now take your filthy mouth off and leave me alone!

Send me one of your miracle pans and I will be happy to show you it's
coating scratched off...

koko wrote:
>
> On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:10:29 -0500, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >cybercat wrote:
> >>
> >> "Ophelia" > wrote
> >> > I use Woll pans and cookware. They never stick and they don't have any
> >> > coating. Expensive, but have never had to replace one. They are made in
> >> > Germany and I can only buy them online or at exhibitions.
> >> >
> >> Never heard of them, but I will look. Sometimes Marshall's has imported
> >> stuff, but I am sure not this kind, it sounds exclusive. I got an amazing
> >> indestructible cookie sheet there, it was German too.
> >
> >Marshall's / Homegoods is a very good source of cookware. ~1/3 the cost
> >of new for a tiny little flaw that you would put in the item in the
> >first week of use anyway. I got a lot of nice Calphalon there, and even
> >one of the few SS items I have, a "wee little saucepan" which is about
> >18" dia and holds about 4gal. It's SS, but the bottom is about 3/4"
> >thick which helps with the thermal issues.
>
> TJ Max does too. Yesterday I bought an All Clad French skillet. It has
> one little mark on it and it was at least half of what it would have
> been.
> I'm going back into town today so I might as well check out Marshall's
> also. Can't have too much cookware. ;-)

TJ Max *is* Marshall's and Homegoods (all TJX corp.). The pricing in the
TJ Max branded stores tends to be higher for the same stuff however.

"koko" > wrote in message
...

Can't have too much cookware. ;-)

That is baddddddddddddddddddd(((((((((

True, but bad <g>

"Pete C." > wrote in message
ster.com...
> Send me one of your miracle pans and I will be happy to show you it's
> coating scratched off...

You are not allowed to use a power saw on them yannow)

I have been using metal kitchen tools on them for several years with no
problem.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "pavane" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> | Sheldon wrote:
>> |
>> | > Stainless steel, carbon steel, and aluminum is all you'll see in
>> | > professional/commercial kitchens... in most instances it's the law...
>> even
>> | > cutlery must be stainless steel, no carbon steel cutlery permitted...
>> no
>> | > cast iron cookware permitted, no non-stick coated cookware permitted,
>> no
>> | > porcelain cookware permitted, no wooden work surfaces permitted
>> either.
>> |
>> | What a load of bullshit! You obviously know nothing about commercial or
>> | professional kitchens, and even less about regulations for them.
>> |
>> | There's not ONE SINGLE TRUE STATEMENT in all of what you wrote.
>>
>> He's sort of like the Energizer Bunny in reverse. Every time he says
>> something he takes energy (truth, knowledge, understanding) OUT of the
>> world and deposits in its place something that would be better off in
>> a litter box or compost heap. Pathetic, sad and regurgatory. But
>> remember.
>> he says "it's the law." Gaagh.
>>
>> pavane
>
> Anyone have the actual regulations? Rather than make accusations, facts
> would help. I do know most equipment has to meet NSF requirements, such
> as knives with no wooden handles.
>
NSF doesn't make the laws, they do the reseach, testing, and make
recommendations. Each municipality's health department institutes rules a
laws pertaining to food handling. Most all Health departments follow the
same recommendations when intituting rules and laws regarding commercial and
institutional food handling, which is why you no longer see wooden handles.

koko wrote:

> TJ Max does too. Yesterday I bought an All Clad French skillet. It has
> one little mark on it and it was at least half of what it would have
> been.

We love our All Clad. We have an extra-large roaster pan that came from
BB&Beyond that Bob got at a deep discount, as well as many other open
stock pieces. I love that roaster pan. It cleans up beautifully -- well
after you've deglazed it making gravy. ;-) The other pieces (that fit) I
can throw into the dishwasher and they clean up nicely.

> I'm going back into town today so I might as well check out Marshall's
> also. Can't have too much cookware. ;-)

Every now and then you can get some awesome deals on cookware and
counter top appliances at Tuesday Morning.

Aren't Ross and TJ Maxx part of the same company? I've found things at
Ross as well. We have a Ross with a TJ Maxx next door to it. If I can't
find something at Ross (the least expensive) then I drop into TJ Maxx
(higher end). Between the two I typically find what I want.

We have a Marshall's in the same shopping center as BB&Beyond, but I
never thought to look at them for cookware. I bought my KitchenAid
hard-anodized cookware set at Kohl's. He had the All Clad and the
Calphalon when we married. We've acquired a few other pieces since
marrying, like a small Scanpan skillet. We do have a couple teflon
coated pans that do get used, and we tossed one of the larger skillets
last week due to the coating flaking off.

--Lin

Ophelia wrote:
>
> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> ster.com...
> > Send me one of your miracle pans and I will be happy to show you it's
> > coating scratched off...
>
> You are not allowed to use a power saw on them yannow)
>
> I have been using metal kitchen tools on them for several years with no
> problem.

I've been using metal utensils for several years in my Sam's Club
"Bakers & Chefs" non-stick coated AL pans and they are still in good
shape, perhaps a scuff or two, but nothing affecting their use.

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:05:16 -0500, Pete C. wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 09:14:04 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>>
>>> Sky wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Nancy2 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 5, 9:56 am, "Pete C." > wrote:
>>>>> > Becca wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > > Here is a message from one of my friends. Any advice?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > > **"I purchased a new stainless pan, made by calphalon, - the fish
>>>>> > > and eggs stuck to it - what a mess, what did I do wrong? Do I have
>>>>> > > to season a new stainless pan??"**
>>>>> >
>>>>> > > Becca
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Yes, got get a good pan instead. Stainless steel is good for counters
>>>>> > and mixing bowls, but lousy for a cooking surface. If they're expecting
>>>>> > a non-stick surface they need to get a non-stick pan and stainless in
>>>>> > not non-stick. If they want a low stick pan get a hard anodized aluminum
>>>>> > pan. If they're afraid of non-stick or aluminum pans due to discredited
>>>>> > rumors, they need to get a clue and a life.
>>>>>
>>>>> You couldn't be more wrong. Good stainless is just as good if not
>>>>> better than non-stick. My Emerilware (made by All-Clad) stainless
>>>>> never suffers from stuck food. One just has to know how to cook. My
>>>>> pans always just swish clean.
>>>>>
>>>>> N.
>>>>
>>>> I agree, Nancy - I was thinking phooey, too <G>! SS works very well,
>>>> and frankly, I try to get away from the non-stick stuff, although it
>>>> (the non-stick stuff) does have its uses. And SS, when soaked with a
>>>> bit of water for a short bit after cooking cleans up wonderfully!
>>>
>>> You can think phooey all you want, but the fact remains that SS is a
>>> lousy cooking surface. It's not just a function of non-stick qualities,
>>> it's also a function of poor thermal qualities. There is a reason you
>>> see little SS cookware in a professional kitchen.
>>
>> ...which is why they typically have copper-clad bottoms or an aluminum
>> core. i don't see 'thermal qualities' as an argument for non-stick,
>> either. what is the non-stick coating stuck to?
>
> I never made an argument for non-stick, I made an argument for *not* SS.
> Aluminum, plain, hard anodized or non-stick coated is generally best for
> most stuff.

what can i say? many, many fine cooks disagree.

your pal,
blake

"Pete C." > wrote in message
ster.com...
>
> Ophelia wrote:
>>
>> "Pete C." > wrote in message
>> ster.com...
>> > Send me one of your miracle pans and I will be happy to show you it's
>> > coating scratched off...
>>
>> You are not allowed to use a power saw on them yannow)
>>
>> I have been using metal kitchen tools on them for several years with no
>> problem.
>
> I've been using metal utensils for several years in my Sam's Club
> "Bakers & Chefs" non-stick coated AL pans and they are still in good
> shape, perhaps a scuff or two, but nothing affecting their use.

Sounds good

Ophelia wrote:
>
> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> ster.com...
> >
> > Ophelia wrote:
> >>
> >> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> >> ster.com...
> >> > Send me one of your miracle pans and I will be happy to show you it's
> >> > coating scratched off...
> >>
> >> You are not allowed to use a power saw on them yannow)
> >>
> >> I have been using metal kitchen tools on them for several years with no
> >> problem.
> >
> > I've been using metal utensils for several years in my Sam's Club
> > "Bakers & Chefs" non-stick coated AL pans and they are still in good
> > shape, perhaps a scuff or two, but nothing affecting their use.
>
> Sounds good

Particularly since these pans are about $14 for a two pack.

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 00:15:52 -0500, Sky >
wrote:

>I agree - nonstick always cleans faster than SS (stainless steel)
>cookware. But, I've read in many sources there are potential issues
>about non-stick cookware since it may emit toxic fumes when prolonged
>high heat is used?? Not to mention, SS has more endurance and can
>suffer high heat for longer times as long as there's good ventilation,
>eh

I know this was a problem with Teflon and Teflon II, usually because
of overheating an empty pan, but I have S/S, Calphalon anodized,
Le Creuset, and Cuisinart S/S Copper, along with Chantal enamelled.

I've had good luck with S/S, but sometimes they need a good polishing
with something like Bon AMi to clean out the surface tarnish. No
biggie, I need to do the same with the Chantal, especially when I
cook rice or beans.

That said, when I want to make certain egg dishes like huevos
rancheros, I use non-stick. If I want a deep-dish pizza for one,
I make it in a Silverstone 8" skillet with rounded sides.

I think some of the old perceptions are outdated.

Alex

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 09:14:04 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
>Sky wrote:
>>
>> Nancy2 wrote:

> There is a reason you
>see little SS cookware in a professional kitchen.

True but you *will* see a lot of those blue-handled ALUMINUM
pans, mostly because they are cheap and can be thown away when
some junior cook screws up. Also, in Europe, a lot of skillets that
go into ovens are plain old stamped iron or steel. I love those
palacsinta places where the "oven" looks like an airport baggage
center. Pans dipped in batter, upside down, placed on the "baggage"
carrier, and then flipped off with a turn of the wrist. Stamped steel.
Seasoned.

Yes, I use mainly Cuisinart Copper with S/S lining, and it's fine. I
don't use this for omelettes, tho. I go back to stamped iron or
Silverstone. Works for me.

Alex, who does his grilled steaks on Cast Iron. Well seasoned.
BTW: I do frittatas in a 7" CI skillet. Started on the CookTop,
then moved into the CV Oven on broil, to act as a salamander.

On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 21:03:07 -0700 (PDT), aem >
wrote:

>On Aug 8, 6:41*pm, "Bob Terwilliger" >

>> Sheldon wrote:
>> > Stainless steel, carbon steel, and *aluminum is all you'll see in
>> > professional/comm

ercial kitchens... in most instances it's the law... even
>> > cutlery must be stainless steel, no carbon steel cutlery permitted... no
>> > cast iron cookware permitted, no non-stick coated cookware permitted, no
>> > porcelain cookware permitted, no wooden work surfaces permitted either.


>>

Not so, KimoSabe. OK on the wooden work surfaces, because they won't
pass Health muster, just about everywhere. Give you that one.

You are telling me that in LA their blackened redfish are not done in
CI? Also RedBeansRice?

And this company:

http://www.restaurant-services.com/pans.htm

Lists all kinds of teflon and other non-stick smallwares because
they can't sell them? Would *you* poach your eggs in Aluminum?
or rather Non-stick? Non stick means you use less oil or grease,
cheaper on the input side and less grease to dispose of on the output
side.

I am not unfamiliar with institutional cooking. I, before I retired,
inspected and audited many, and the main issue is whether
the smallwares will stand up to the mishandling and abuse that is
inevitable, and still hold up to the sanitary demands of local Health
Ordinances. Cost vs. benefit. And I've looked at quite a few kitchens
in New Orleans, and I sure do see a bunch of CI, but not so much for
gumbo. The good ones used copper.

BTW: Institutional and commercial are NOT the same. Institutional
kitchens are often non-profit and their whole cost/benefit view
is different. They are the tugboats and barges, the commercial
kitchens are the speedboats. DIfferent beasts, usually.

Why are we having this p*$$ing contest?

Alex

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 18:51:19 GMT, "brooklyn1"
> wrote:

>
>"Nancy2" wrote:
>> Becca wrote:

>Yes you do. And I've described how to season stainless steel cookware many
>times. Stainless steel cookware is seasoned exactly the same way one
>prepares/seasons internal combustion engine cylinder surfaces and machine
>tool way surfaces to make them more slippery

Is it permitted to point out that few internal combustions use S/S
cylinder sleeves? And fewer yet use S/S engine blocks. Chromed steel
I have seen, yes. But how, if you please, does this relate to
seasoning, as you call it, of S/S pans? Do they use moly sulphide
to coat the surfaces, as has been used in transmissions? Hm?

Hardly useful for S/S skillets, I think.

PLease explain. I've been online for over 15 years and have no
memory of ever seeing a decent "explanation" of how one
"seasons" S/S.

Alex, starting the timer.....

Steve Pope > wrote:

> Italians routinely stick a pan into the pizza oven,

Why do you think so? Preciously few Italians have a pizza oven. A
pizza oven is mostly a commercial thing.

Victor

"Chemiker" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 21:03:07 -0700 (PDT), aem >
> wrote:
>
>>On Aug 8, 6:41 pm, "Bob Terwilliger" >
>
>>> Sheldon wrote:
>>> > Stainless steel, carbon steel, and aluminum is all you'll see in
>>> > professional/comm
>
> Not so, KimoSabe.

OK, beginning that way is a sure indicator that here comes bullshit.

OK on the wooden work surfaces, because they won't
> pass Health muster, just about everywhere. Give you that one.
>
> You are telling me that in LA their blackened redfish are not done in
> CI? Also RedBeansRice?

They more than likely cook blackened fish on a large cast iron griddle, the
type that's stoned every day and never permitted to become seasoned, like
those that short order cooks drive, no successful restaurant is going to be
doing blackened fish one portion at a time and stacking up dirty cast iron
pans by the hundreds. And if they're any kind of restaurant worth
mentioning they're cooking the beans for rice n' beans in 40+ quart aluminum
pots... if their beans come out of #10 cans then your talking cafeteria, and
still they're gonna heat them in large aluminum pots or large stainless
steel steam jacketed kettes. Restaurants don't use toys r us sized
cookware... did you ever lift a 40 quart cast iron pot (they do make them,
even much larger), I bet you've never seen one in person, perhaps one day
you will, from the inside! LOL

> And this company:
>
> http://www.restaurant-services.com/pans.htm
>
>
So what... most every restuarant supply emporium sells to the home cooking
public too... in fact that comprises a major portion of their business

Professional cooks can't use non stick and cast iron on the job just for the
simple fact that then they'd better be prepared to wash their own cookware
and no one is going to pay them to take time out to do that.

You watch too much foodtv.

Chemiker wrote:

>
> Is it permitted to point out that few internal combustions use S/S
> cylinder sleeves? And fewer yet use S/S engine blocks. Chromed steel
> I have seen, yes. But how, if you please, does this relate to
> seasoning, as you call it, of S/S pans? Do they use moly sulphide
> to coat the surfaces, as has been used in transmissions? Hm?

You have a point there except that I've never heard of an engine that
uses S/S cylinder liners or sleeves, or of any engine block made of S/S.
It might not even be possible to make an engine block of this material,
let alone desirable.

>
> Hardly useful for S/S skillets, I think.
>
> PLease explain. I've been online for over 15 years and have no
> memory of ever seeing a decent "explanation" of how one
> "seasons" S/S.
>
> Alex, starting the timer.....

Victor Sack > wrote:

>Steve Pope > wrote:

>> Italians routinely stick a pan into the pizza oven,

>Why do you think so? Preciously few Italians have a pizza oven. A
>pizza oven is mostly a commercial thing.

Relative to other populations, Italians have more pizza ovens
than average. At least, I'm pretty sure this is true...


S.

Steve Pope wrote:
>
> Victor Sack > wrote:
>
> >Steve Pope > wrote:
>
> >> Italians routinely stick a pan into the pizza oven,
>
> >Why do you think so? Preciously few Italians have a pizza oven. A
> >pizza oven is mostly a commercial thing.
>
> Relative to other populations, Italians have more pizza ovens
> than average. At least, I'm pretty sure this is true...
>
> S.

I wouldn't be so sure, back in the housing bubble it was pretty trendy
for a while to put a brick pizza oven in your micro-mansion, along with
an "outdoor kitchen".

Pete C. wrote:
>
> Sky wrote:
> >
> > Nancy2 wrote:
> > >
> > > On Aug 5, 9:56 am, "Pete C." > wrote:
> > > > Becca wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Here is a message from one of my friends. Any advice?
> > > >
> > > > > **"I purchased a new stainless pan, made by calphalon, - the fish
> > > > > and eggs stuck to it - what a mess, what did I do wrong? Do I have
> > > > > to season a new stainless pan??"**
> > > >
> > > > > Becca
> > > >
> > > > Yes, got get a good pan instead. Stainless steel is good for counters
> > > > and mixing bowls, but lousy for a cooking surface. If they're expecting
> > > > a non-stick surface they need to get a non-stick pan and stainless in
> > > > not non-stick. If they want a low stick pan get a hard anodized aluminum
> > > > pan. If they're afraid of non-stick or aluminum pans due to discredited
> > > > rumors, they need to get a clue and a life.
> > >
> > > You couldn't be more wrong. Good stainless is just as good if not
> > > better than non-stick. My Emerilware (made by All-Clad) stainless
> > > never suffers from stuck food. One just has to know how to cook. My
> > > pans always just swish clean.
> > >
> > > N.
> >
> > I agree, Nancy - I was thinking phooey, too <G>! SS works very well,
> > and frankly, I try to get away from the non-stick stuff, although it
> > (the non-stick stuff) does have its uses. And SS, when soaked with a
> > bit of water for a short bit after cooking cleans up wonderfully!
>
> You can think phooey all you want, but the fact remains that SS is a
> lousy cooking surface. It's not just a function of non-stick qualities,
> it's also a function of poor thermal qualities. There is a reason you
> see little SS cookware in a professional kitchen.

At the end of the day, what counts is what works for any particular
person. That's what counts in the long run.

Sky

--
Ultra Ultimate Kitchen Rule - Use the Timer!
Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice!!

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 10:31:15 -0700, Lin >
wrote:

>koko wrote:
>
>> TJ Max does too. Yesterday I bought an All Clad French skillet. It has
>> one little mark on it and it was at least half of what it would have
>> been.
>
>We love our All Clad. We have an extra-large roaster pan that came from
>BB&Beyond that Bob got at a deep discount, as well as many other open
>stock pieces. I love that roaster pan. It cleans up beautifully -- well
>after you've deglazed it making gravy. ;-) The other pieces (that fit) I
>can throw into the dishwasher and they clean up nicely.
>
snippage

I need a nice roasting pan next. I've been looking for one but I don't
need a huge one.

koko
--

There is no love more sincere than the love of food
George Bernard Shaw
www.kokoscorner.typepad.com
updated 08/02

"koko" > wrote in message
> I need a nice roasting pan next. I've been looking for one but I don't
> need a huge one.
>
> koko

One of the best roasting pans is a cast iron fry pan. It will cover about
90% of what you want to do.

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 05:56:56 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
>"koko" > wrote in message
>> I need a nice roasting pan next. I've been looking for one but I don't
>> need a huge one.
>>
>> koko
>
>One of the best roasting pans is a cast iron fry pan. It will cover about
>90% of what you want to do.
>
What a great idea, I have some of those, thanks

koko
--

There is no love more sincere than the love of food
George Bernard Shaw
www.kokoscorner.typepad.com
updated 08/02