I learned a lesson tonight, altho there are still nuances I'd
appreciate help with.

Started with a tablespoon of butter in the cast iron frypan. Melted
it, got it bubbly on medium heat, and threw in the sliced onions.
Covered. Saw some cherry tomatoes sitting on the counter, so halved
those, and added the to the onions. Gave it all a stir, made sure the
tomatoes were in contact with the pan so they'd get a little brown.
Added the remains of the fish coating(see below) to the pan, and
raised the heat. Nice little brown crumbles formed, onions and
tomatoes looked nice. Scraped it all into a bowl.

Had a couple of fillets, but wanted to do something different with
them, so rinsed and patted them dry, cut into bite size, then threw
the pieces in a bowl with corn meal, sesame seeds, pepper, salt and
garlic. Laid them out on a plate to set while the onions finished
cooking.

Thought about all the times I've tried to fry things and it never
worked. Turned the heat up to almost top temp. (9 out of 10). Added
a tablespoon of oil to the pan, and let it get good and hot, just
before smoking. Dropped the fish in, piece by piece so each piece was
flat on the pan. Waited a couple of seconds. Picked the pan up and
shook it. They slid around! Cool! Flipped them, and tried to move
one that flopped on top of another. Stuck. Waited. Shook pan. They
slid!

Flipped them around a little more, since some of the pieces were thick
and I wanted to get the other sides browned.

Put a third of the onions and tomatoes on each plate. Split the fish
up on top of them. Added a scoop of tabouli and a splash of malt
vinegar. Very tasty.

But the fish was overcooked. Didn't seem like I had cooked them that
long, but how would I do this and avoid overcooking the fish next
time?

maxine in ri

maxine in ri wrote:
> I learned a lesson tonight, altho there are still nuances I'd
> appreciate help with.
>
> Started with a tablespoon of butter in the cast iron frypan. Melted
> it, got it bubbly on medium heat, and threw in the sliced onions.
> Covered. Saw some cherry tomatoes sitting on the counter, so halved
> those, and added the to the onions. Gave it all a stir, made sure the
> tomatoes were in contact with the pan so they'd get a little brown.
> Added the remains of the fish coating(see below) to the pan, and
> raised the heat. Nice little brown crumbles formed, onions and
> tomatoes looked nice. Scraped it all into a bowl.
>
> Had a couple of fillets, but wanted to do something different with
> them, so rinsed and patted them dry, cut into bite size, then threw
> the pieces in a bowl with corn meal, sesame seeds, pepper, salt and
> garlic. Laid them out on a plate to set while the onions finished
> cooking.
>
> Thought about all the times I've tried to fry things and it never
> worked. Turned the heat up to almost top temp. (9 out of 10). Added
> a tablespoon of oil to the pan, and let it get good and hot, just
> before smoking. Dropped the fish in, piece by piece so each piece was
> flat on the pan. Waited a couple of seconds. Picked the pan up and
> shook it. They slid around! Cool! Flipped them, and tried to move
> one that flopped on top of another. Stuck. Waited. Shook pan. They
> slid!
>
> Flipped them around a little more, since some of the pieces were thick
> and I wanted to get the other sides browned.
>
> Put a third of the onions and tomatoes on each plate. Split the fish
> up on top of them. Added a scoop of tabouli and a splash of malt
> vinegar. Very tasty.
>
> But the fish was overcooked. Didn't seem like I had cooked them that
> long, but how would I do this and avoid overcooking the fish next
> time?
>
> maxine in ri
>

I've always cooked fish until the flesh is translucent and flakes easily
with a fork. It's a learned thing to spot when they're just right, takes
practice. HTH

maxine in ri wrote:
> I learned a lesson tonight, altho there are still nuances I'd
> appreciate help with.

>
> But the fish was overcooked. Didn't seem like I had cooked them that
> long, but how would I do this and avoid overcooking the fish next
> time?
>
> maxine in ri
>

All you need is practice. If you cook fish often enough, you'll get a
sense of how long it takes - I'm sure you can't get this from book
learning since it depends on what kind of fish you're using, cooking
temperature and method and size of the pieces. Too many variables. Most
of the time, folks overcook fish. The truth is that I know what it takes
to cook ahi or mahimahi but would feel a little lost on cooking a whole
trout.

The other night I made some ahi cakes with chopped ahi and cracker
crumbs and an egg. The main flavoring was ponzu, sesame oil, onions,
Chinese mustard powder and a tiny bit of liquid smoke. The mix was
pretty watery but I just scooped it out with a little ice cream scoop
and dumped it in the fry pan. My wife's friend wanted to know the recipe
for this tasty dish but as it goes, there is none. That was the first
time I made it and it may be the last. Obviously you cook like this too
- that's good.

maxine in ri wrote:

> But the fish was overcooked. Didn't seem like I had cooked them that
> long, but how would I do this and avoid overcooking the fish next
> time?

Boy, I hate it when that happens. Did I miss in your post what type of
fish you were cooking?

Thin fillets, I don't bother with the stove top, I prefer baking them.
But something really thick like a nice halibut, swordfish or salmon I
sort of follow the same guidelines as I do for a rare steak -- though
salmon I prefer on the grill.

The average is 3-4 minutes per side. I start out with a skillet heated
at medium-high with either a little oil or butter (I like using one of
my hard anodized aluminum skillets) and then when I flip the fillet
after the first searing, I lower the heat to medium and finish it. Like
I said, no more than 6-8 minutes from start to finish. It all depends on
the thickness of the fillet.

After a couple of minutes on the flip, I gently press the middle of the
fillet with a thumb or finger to get a feel of whether it's undercooked
still (a little mushy) or if there is a big of firmness that presses
back, it's pretty close to done. Sometimes if you wait do the flakiness
test, it's already gone too far, and dammit the fillet just isn't as
pretty at serving with it flaking apart.

My favorite way of doing a thick halibut steak is to bring it out 30 or
so minutes before I want to put it in the frying pan. I rinse the fish,
gently pat it dry and then sprinkle a little kosher salt on both sides,
letting it sit out to come closer to room temp. I heat a couple
tablespoons of butter or oil in a pan, almost to smoking but not quite.
I sprinkle and pat in the slightest dusting of rice flour to the first
side going down, spread it for eveness and then get it in the pan
quickly. If you like a rice flour crust, you can do the same thing to
the second side as it's in the pan. A restaurant that Bob and I love
(Hawks) does it this way, but the rice flour is only on the first side
so the presentation is very nice. They serve the fish on top of fresh
asparagus that sits on romesco sauce. For something so simple, it's pure
heaven.

--Lin

On Aug 7, 4:37*pm, maxine in ri > wrote:
> I learned a lesson tonight, altho there are still nuances I'd
> appreciate help with.
>
> Started with a tablespoon of butter in the cast iron frypan. *Melted
> it, got it bubbly on medium heat, and threw in the sliced onions.
> Covered. *Saw some cherry tomatoes sitting on the counter, so halved
> those, and added the to the onions. *Gave it all a stir, made sure the
> tomatoes were in contact with the pan so they'd get a little brown.
> Added the remains of the fish coating(see below) to the pan, and
> raised the heat.

I don't see the point of this, unless you just happen to like fried
cornmeal.

>*Nice little brown crumbles formed, onions and
> tomatoes looked nice. *Scraped it all into a bowl.
>
> Had a couple of fillets, but wanted to do something different with
> them, so rinsed and patted them dry, *cut into bite size, then threw
> the pieces in a bowl with corn meal, sesame seeds, pepper, salt and
> garlic. *Laid them out on a plate to set while the onions finished
> cooking.
>
> Thought about all the times I've tried to fry things and it never
> worked. *Turned the heat up to almost top temp. (9 out of 10). *Added
> a tablespoon of oil to the pan, and let it get good and hot, just
> before smoking.

Good move. Higher temp gives you the crispy-crunchy fried texture,
rather than the oil-absorbing mushier coating you'd get from low heat.

>*Dropped the fish in, piece by piece so each piece was
> flat on the pan. *Waited a couple of seconds. * *Picked the pan up and
> shook it. *They slid around! *Cool! *Flipped them, and tried to move
> one that flopped on top of another. *Stuck. *Waited. *Shook pan. *They
> slid!
>
> Flipped them around a little more, since some of the pieces were thick
> and I wanted to get the other sides browned.
>
> Put a third of the onions and tomatoes on each plate. *Split the fish
> up on top of them. *Added a scoop of tabouli and a splash of malt
> vinegar. *Very tasty.
>
> But the fish was overcooked. *Didn't seem like I had cooked them that
> long, but how would I do this and avoid overcooking the fish next
> time?
>
> maxine in ri

On Aug 7, 8:06*pm, aem > wrote:
> On Aug 7, 4:37*pm, maxine in ri > wrote:
> [snips]
>
Sorry, I hit Send prematurely.

> > But the fish was overcooked. *Didn't seem like I had cooked them that
> > long, but how would I do this and avoid overcooking the fish next
> > time?

As another said, it's experience, but it will help you gauge things
better if you turn the heat down soon after you turn the fish over.
The pan and oil will still be hot enough to crisp the second side, but
the time between perfectly cooked and overcooked will elongate
slightly, improving your ability to catch it just right. -aem

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
>> All you need is practice. If you cook fish often enough, you'll get a
> sense of how long it takes - I'm sure you can't get this from book
> learning since it depends on what kind of fish you're using, cooking
> temperature and method and size of the pieces. Too many variables. Most of
> the time, folks overcook fish. The truth is that I know what it takes to
> cook ahi or mahimahi but would feel a little lost on cooking a whole
> trout.

I always bake whole trout, in foil, in the oven. I place a lump of butter
and some lemon slices inside it. Any fresh herbs are nice too. If you bake
it slow, timing isn't terrible important

On Aug 7, 8:25*pm, George Shirley > wrote:
> maxine in ri wrote:

> > But the fish was overcooked. *Didn't seem like I had cooked them that
> > long, but how would I do this and avoid overcooking the fish next
> > time?
>
> > maxine in ri
>
> I've always cooked fish until the flesh is translucent and flakes easily
> with a fork. It's a learned thing to spot when they're just right, takes
> practice. HTH

I do the same with broiling and baking, but this time I had the
coating, and higher heat. A tad lower heat? The top heat level seems
to just burn things.

maxine in ri

On Aug 7, 9:29*pm, dsi1 > wrote:
> maxine in ri wrote:
> > I learned a lesson tonight, altho there are still nuances I'd
> > appreciate help with.
>
> > But the fish was overcooked. *Didn't seem like I had cooked them that
> > long, but how would I do this and avoid overcooking the fish next
> > time?
>
> > maxine in ri
>
> All you need is practice. If you cook fish often enough, you'll get a
> sense of how long it takes - I'm sure you can't get this from book
> learning since it depends on what kind of fish you're using, cooking
> temperature and method and size of the pieces. Too many variables. Most
> of the time, folks overcook fish. The truth is that I know what it takes
> to cook ahi or mahimahi but would feel a little lost on cooking a whole
> trout.
>
> The other night I made some ahi cakes with chopped ahi and cracker
> crumbs and an egg. The main flavoring was ponzu, sesame oil, onions,
> Chinese mustard powder and a tiny bit of liquid smoke. The mix was
> pretty watery but I just scooped it out with a little ice cream scoop
> and dumped it in the fry pan. My wife's friend wanted to know the recipe
> for this tasty dish but as it goes, there is none. That was the first
> time I made it and it may be the last. Obviously you cook like this too
> - that's good.

That sounds like an interesting combination. I have a small jar of
CMP that I bought ages ago, and never seem to find a use for. Thanks
for the idea. Wouldn't have thought of the liquid smoke either. I've
been using that with the greens.

maxine in ri

maxine wrote:
> On Aug 7, 8:25 pm, George Shirley > wrote:
>> maxine in ri wrote:
>
>>> But the fish was overcooked. Didn't seem like I had cooked them that
>>> long, but how would I do this and avoid overcooking the fish next
>>> time?
>>> maxine in ri
>> I've always cooked fish until the flesh is translucent and flakes easily
>> with a fork. It's a learned thing to spot when they're just right, takes
>> practice. HTH
>
> I do the same with broiling and baking, but this time I had the
> coating, and higher heat. A tad lower heat? The top heat level seems
> to just burn things.
>
> maxine in ri
I would think a lower heat setting would have helped. Usually the only
coated fish I cook is fried fish and the occasional baked fish.

On Aug 7, 9:58*pm, Lin > wrote:
> maxine in ri wrote:
> > But the fish was overcooked. *Didn't seem like I had cooked them that
> > long, but how would I do this and avoid overcooking the fish next
> > time?
>
> Boy, I hate it when that happens. Did I miss in your post what type of
> fish you were cooking?

No, you didn't miss it. They were cod fillets, some pieces 3/4" thick,
the rest obviously waaay too thin.

> Thin fillets, I don't bother with the stove top, I prefer baking them.
> But something really thick like a nice halibut, swordfish or salmon I
> sort of follow the same guidelines as I do for a rare steak -- though
> salmon I prefer on the grill.

My usual is to broil them with lemon and butter. Never get tired of
that combo!

> The average is 3-4 minutes per side. I start out with a skillet heated
> at medium-high with either a little oil or butter (I like using one of
> my hard anodized aluminum skillets) and then when I flip the fillet
> after the first searing, I lower the heat to medium and finish it. Like
> I said, no more than 6-8 minutes from start to finish. It all depends on
> the thickness of the fillet.

That's way longer than these cooked. Will try lowering the heat after
the first flip. The cast iron won't give up the sear heat that
quickly, so the other sides can get done.

> After a couple of minutes on the flip, I gently press the middle of the
> fillet with a thumb or finger to get a feel of whether it's undercooked
> still (a little mushy) or if there is a big of firmness that presses
> back, it's pretty close to done. Sometimes if you wait do the flakiness
> test, it's already gone too far, and dammit the fillet just isn't as
> pretty at serving with it flaking apart.

I've never thought to use the pressure method for testing
doneness.

> My favorite way of doing a thick halibut steak is to bring it out 30 or
> so minutes before I want to put it in the frying pan. I rinse the fish,
> gently pat it dry and then sprinkle a little kosher salt on both sides,
> letting it sit out to come closer to room temp. I heat a couple
> tablespoons of butter or oil in a pan, almost to smoking but not quite.
> I sprinkle and pat in the slightest dusting of rice flour to the first
> side going down, spread it for eveness and then get it in the pan
> quickly. If you like a rice flour crust, you can do the same thing to
> the second side as it's in the pan. A restaurant that Bob and I love
> (Hawks) does it this way, but the rice flour is only on the first side
> so the presentation is very nice. They serve the fish on top of fresh
> asparagus that sits on romesco sauce. For something so simple, it's pure
> heaven.

You toss it in the pan quickly after sprinkling it with the rice flour
so it doesn't have time for the flour to absorb any of the moisture
from the fish?

That Hawks plate looks lovely, with the red,white and green.

Thank youf or the technique ideas.

maxine in ri

On Aug 7, 11:06*pm, aem > wrote:
> On Aug 7, 4:37*pm, maxine in ri > wrote:
>
> > I learned a lesson tonight, altho there are still nuances I'd
> > appreciate help with.
>
> > Started with a tablespoon of butter in the cast iron frypan. *Melted
> > it, got it bubbly on medium heat, and threw in the sliced onions.
> > Covered. *Saw some cherry tomatoes sitting on the counter, so halved
> > those, and added the to the onions. *Gave it all a stir, made sure the
> > tomatoes were in contact with the pan so they'd get a little brown.
> > Added the remains of the fish coating(see below) to the pan, and
> > raised the heat.
>
> I don't see the point of this, unless you just happen to like fried
> cornmeal.

I hate waste<and my waist shows it>, and fried brown crumbs are
tasty. Also, when I had scraped everything out of the pan, I could
see I had a good shiny coat on the whole pan, and no excess butter.

> >*Nice little brown crumbles formed, onions and
> > tomatoes looked nice. *Scraped it all into a bowl.
>

On Aug 7, 11:30*pm, aem > wrote:
> On Aug 7, 8:06*pm, aem > wrote:> On Aug 7, 4:37*pm, maxine in ri > wrote:
> > [snips]
>
> Sorry, I hit Send prematurely.
>
> > > But the fish was overcooked. *Didn't seem like I had cooked them that
> > > long, but how would I do this and avoid overcooking the fish next
> > > time?
>
> As another said, it's experience, but it will help you gauge things
> better if you turn the heat down soon after you turn the fish over.
> The pan and oil will still be hot enough to crisp the second side, but
> the time between perfectly cooked and overcooked will elongate
> slightly, improving your ability to catch it just right. * *-aem

Thanks. I appreciate the repeat of Lin's suggestion to turn the heat
down after the first side is cooked. My brain needs that<G>.

maxine in ri

On Aug 8, 3:39*am, "Ophelia" > wrote:

> I always bake whole trout, in foil, in the oven. *I place a lump of butter
> and some lemon slices inside it. *Any fresh herbs are nice too. *If you bake
> it slow, timing isn't terrible important

I usually broil or bake my fish, but last night I wanted something
different. Broiled or baked, my fish comes out perfect.

best,
maxine in ri

On Aug 8, 8:04*am, George Shirley > wrote:
> maxine wrote:
> > On Aug 7, 8:25 pm, George Shirley > wrote:
> >> maxine in ri wrote:
>
> >>> But the fish was overcooked. *Didn't seem like I had cooked them that
> >>> long, but how would I do this and avoid overcooking the fish next
> >>> time?
> >>> maxine in ri
> >> I've always cooked fish until the flesh is translucent and flakes easily
> >> with a fork. It's a learned thing to spot when they're just right, takes
> >> practice. HTH
>
> > I do the same with broiling and baking, but this time I had the
> > coating, and higher heat. *A tad lower heat? *The top heat level seems
> > to just burn things.
>
> > maxine in ri
>
> I would think a lower heat setting would have helped. Usually the only
> coated fish I cook is fried fish and the occasional baked fish.

When frying fish, I'd rather have the fish overcooked and the cornmeal
nice and browned, than the fish not overcooked and the cornmeal
undercooked.

I mostly fry inexpensive fish like tilapia, or hoki, sometimes mahi.
Pollock tends to fall apart too easily to fry.

--Bryan

On Aug 8, 8:20*am, Bobo Bonobo® > wrote:
> On Aug 8, 8:04*am, George Shirley > wrote:
>
>
>
> > maxine wrote:
> > > On Aug 7, 8:25 pm, George Shirley > wrote:
> > >> maxine in ri wrote:
>
> > >>> But the fish was overcooked. *Didn't seem like I had cooked them that
> > >>> long, but how would I do this and avoid overcooking the fish next
> > >>> time?
> > >>> maxine in ri
> > >> I've always cooked fish until the flesh is translucent and flakes easily
> > >> with a fork. It's a learned thing to spot when they're just right, takes
> > >> practice. HTH
>
> > > I do the same with broiling and baking, but this time I had the
> > > coating, and higher heat. *A tad lower heat? *The top heat level seems
> > > to just burn things.
>
> > > maxine in ri
>
> > I would think a lower heat setting would have helped. Usually the only
> > coated fish I cook is fried fish and the occasional baked fish.
>
> When frying fish, I'd rather have the fish overcooked and the cornmeal
> nice and browned, than the fish not overcooked and the cornmeal
> undercooked.

NO WAY!!! Overcooked fish is an abomination! Rubbery crap!

I'll bet you don't like sushi either.

John Kuthe...

>
> I mostly fry inexpensive fish like tilapia, or hoki, sometimes mahi.
> Pollock tends to fall apart too easily to fry.
>
> --Bryan

On Aug 8, 8:28*am, John Kuthe > wrote:
> On Aug 8, 8:20*am, Bobo Bonobo® > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 8, 8:04*am, George Shirley > wrote:
>
> > > maxine wrote:
> > > > On Aug 7, 8:25 pm, George Shirley > wrote:
> > > >> maxine in ri wrote:
>
> > > >>> But the fish was overcooked. *Didn't seem like I had cooked them that
> > > >>> long, but how would I do this and avoid overcooking the fish next
> > > >>> time?
> > > >>> maxine in ri
> > > >> I've always cooked fish until the flesh is translucent and flakes easily
> > > >> with a fork. It's a learned thing to spot when they're just right, takes
> > > >> practice. HTH
>
> > > > I do the same with broiling and baking, but this time I had the
> > > > coating, and higher heat. *A tad lower heat? *The top heat level seems
> > > > to just burn things.
>
> > > > maxine in ri
>
> > > I would think a lower heat setting would have helped. Usually the only
> > > coated fish I cook is fried fish and the occasional baked fish.
>
> > When frying fish, I'd rather have the fish overcooked and the cornmeal
> > nice and browned, than the fish not overcooked and the cornmeal
> > undercooked.
>
> NO WAY!!! Overcooked fish is an abomination! Rubbery crap!
>
> I'll bet you don't like sushi either.

I like sashimi, but not nori.
>
> John Kuthe...
>
>
>
> > I mostly fry inexpensive fish like tilapia, or hoki, sometimes mahi.
> > Pollock tends to fall apart too easily to fry.
>
> > --Bryan

--Bryan

maxine wrote:
> On Aug 8, 3:39 am, "Ophelia" > wrote:
>
>> I always bake whole trout, in foil, in the oven. I place a lump of
>> butter and some lemon slices inside it. Any fresh herbs are nice
>> too. If you bake it slow, timing isn't terrible important
>
> I usually broil or bake my fish, but last night I wanted something
> different. Broiled or baked, my fish comes out perfect.

Excellent) It is always good to experiment

maxine wrote:

> No, you didn't miss it. They were cod fillets, some pieces 3/4" thick,
> the rest obviously waaay too thin.

Oh, I do love cod! I remember some ling cod fillets my ex-MIL brought
back from Alaska after a visit and fishing excursion with her brother.
Buttah ... I'd never had so much fish in my freezer before and we
enjoyed every bit of it. The picky kids did, too.

> My usual is to broil them with lemon and butter. Never get tired of
> that combo!

Broiling is great, too. I also enjoy grilling, but on thin or delicate
fishes I have to be very careful. I haven't had great (or grate ;-) )
success with those fish baskets either.

>> The average is 3-4 minutes per side.

> That's way longer than these cooked. Will try lowering the heat after
> the first flip. The cast iron won't give up the sear heat that
> quickly, so the other sides can get done.

I love cast iron, but it's not typically what I use with fish -because-
of the way it holds heat. Meant to ask, are you using gas or electric?

> I've never thought to use the pressure method for testing
> doneness.

I stumbled on the technique when doing a thick halibut steak. It was one
of those instinctive tests as if I were doing beef -- and it's pretty
accurate! LOL! Since I don't do thin in a pan, I don't know how well it
would work.

> You toss it in the pan quickly after sprinkling it with the rice flour
> so it doesn't have time for the flour to absorb any of the moisture
> from the fish?

Exactly.

> That Hawks plate looks lovely, with the red,white and green.

We haven't been disappointed with anything we've had at Hawks. On
Sundays they fashion a fixed price menu and service like Thomas Keller's
"ad hoc" in Yountville (Napa), CA., and they acknowledge that's who they
are patterning themselves after on Sundays.

> Thank youf or the technique ideas.

NP! Hope you get a chance to try them in the future!

--Lin

On Aug 8, 1:17*pm, Lin > wrote:
> maxine wrote:

> Broiling is great, too. I also enjoy grilling, but on thin or delicate
> fishes I have to be very careful. I haven't had great (or grate ;-) )
> success with those fish baskets either.

The novice suggests: maybe it needs to be hotter?<g>

> I love cast iron, but it's not typically what I use with fish -because-
> of the way it holds heat. Meant to ask, are you using gas or electric?

yes, I should have taken it out of the pan as soon as it loosened,
too. I have no choice but to use electric. When the heating system
goes, we'll get the gas line and a new cooktop. We went with the
cheapest one we could find at Home Despot, since, a) they didn't have
much choice, and b) our furnace should croak in another 5-10 years<G>.

Best,
maxine in ri

In article
>,
maxine in ri > wrote:

> But the fish was overcooked. Didn't seem like I had cooked them that
> long, but how would I do this and avoid overcooking the fish next
> time?
>
> maxine in ri

Don't cook them as long.
Ever helpfully yours,
Barb, ducking and running


--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
Lots of new stuff in the last couple days.