I just made a tasty Bolognese Sauce. Nothing profound, though it's tasty
with a good bulk sausage rather than beef or veal. I'd welcome thoughts.

1 medium onion, chopped - 1 cup
3 stalks celery, chopped - 1 cup
1 1/2 lb bulk Italian Sausage
1 1/2 Cups milk
1 1/2 C white wine
2 C canned diced tomatoes
1 TB dried provencial herbs
1 TB dried oregano
salt and pepper to taste.

Brown onion, dried provencial herbs and dried oregano lightly for 5 minutes;
add celery and cook another five minutes. Add sausage, and saute lightly,
only until the meat loses color. Add milk and simmer 10 minutes, reducing
milk by about 75%. Add wine and let wine-milk simmer until almost absorbed,
leaving about a cup. Strain to separate meat from remaining cooking liquid.
Use separator funnel to remove fat from cooking liquie. Combine meat,
cooking liquid and tomatoes in sauce pan. Slowly warm so sauce ebulates
only slightly. Cook partially covered for 3 hours, adding water if too much
evaporation occurs. .

Toss to your liking with pasta. We like fresh linguini, which we fortunately
can obtain readily here. Top with grated cheese of choice. Serve with garlic
bread.

Ed, getting hungry as I type.

Theron > wrote:

>I just made a tasty Bolognese Sauce. Nothing profound, though it's tasty
>with a good bulk sausage rather than beef or veal. I'd welcome thoughts.

>1 medium onion, chopped - 1 cup
>3 stalks celery, chopped - 1 cup
>1 1/2 lb bulk Italian Sausage
>1 1/2 Cups milk
>1 1/2 C white wine
>2 C canned diced tomatoes
>1 TB dried provencial herbs
>1 TB dried oregano
>salt and pepper to taste.

Sounds really good. (But no garlic??)

Tonight I plan to make a boar ragu, to have over polenta.
Same concept, but without the milk.

Steve

Christine Dabney > wrote:

>On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 23:41:52 +0000 (UTC), (Steve


>>Tonight I plan to make a boar ragu, to have over polenta.
>>Same concept, but without the milk.

>Wow, that seems like a wintry dish... I usually only serve things like
>that in much, much cooler weather, even cold weather...
>Now I know Berkeley is cooler, but THAT much cooler???

It's actually a little warm here today. Maybe 75 peak,
but cooling off.

We stumbled into this; my partner had made up a batch of
polenta already, there are tomatoes, and there was ground
"wild boar" at the market. (Not from wild animals, but
a supposed "wild" breed of boar.) So it seems like a suitable
combination. And basil, a bunch of basil will go in it.
I will not cook down the tomatoes to the point of full-fledged
ragu-ness, this will be more of a fresh tomato sauce.

>Me, I am making aioli, to go with a summery pasta dish from one of
>Deborah Madison's books. I got gorgeous ripe tomatoes from the
>farmers market on the way home from work this morning... Along with
>some heavenly ripe peaches. And some sweet yellow corn.

Sounds wonderful!


Steve

Steve Pope wrote:
> Christine Dabney > wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 23:41:52 +0000 (UTC), (Steve
>
>
>>> Tonight I plan to make a boar ragu, to have over polenta.
>>> Same concept, but without the milk.
>
>> Wow, that seems like a wintry dish... I usually only serve things like
>> that in much, much cooler weather, even cold weather...
>> Now I know Berkeley is cooler, but THAT much cooler???
>
> It's actually a little warm here today. Maybe 75 peak,
> but cooling off.
>
> We stumbled into this; my partner had made up a batch of
> polenta already, there are tomatoes, and there was ground
> "wild boar" at the market. (Not from wild animals, but
> a supposed "wild" breed of boar.) So it seems like a suitable
> combination. And basil, a bunch of basil will go in it.
> I will not cook down the tomatoes to the point of full-fledged
> ragu-ness, this will be more of a fresh tomato sauce.
>
>> Me, I am making aioli, to go with a summery pasta dish from one of
>> Deborah Madison's books. I got gorgeous ripe tomatoes from the
>> farmers market on the way home from work this morning... Along with
>> some heavenly ripe peaches. And some sweet yellow corn.
>
> Sounds wonderful!
>
>
> Steve

Please report on the boar. Here when restaurants use that term I
think it is just pork.

--
Jean B.

On Sat 08 Aug 2009 04:51:19p, Christine Dabney told us...

> On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 23:41:52 +0000 (UTC), (Steve
> Pope) wrote:
>
>
>>Tonight I plan to make a boar ragu, to have over polenta.
>>Same concept, but without the milk.
>>
>>Steve
>
> Wow, that seems like a wintry dish... I usually only serve things like
> that in much, much cooler weather, even cold weather...
> Now I know Berkeley is cooler, but THAT much cooler???
>
> Me, I am making aioli, to go with a summery pasta dish from one of
> Deborah Madison's books. I got gorgeous ripe tomatoes from the
> farmers market on the way home from work this morning... Along with
> some heavenly ripe peaches. And some sweet yellow corn.
>
> Christine, who just can't think of such wintry type foods in such warm
> weather..

If you live in a well air conditioned house, it's never "hot" weather
inside. I cook anything any time and enjoy it. A couple of weeks ago I
made a batch of Pfeffernuesse, which is typically considered a Christmas
cookie. They were delicious.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
My soul is dark with stormy riot, Directly traceable to diet.
Samuel Hoffenstein

Jean B. > wrote:

>Please report on the boar. Here when restaurants use that term I
>think it is just pork.

Well, certainly it's pork, it's from a pig, but that pig should be
of the species _sus scrofa_ instead of _sus domesticus_ .

I'm part way through making this ragu. The boar is very good,
but I would say no better than the same farmer's normal pork.
It's just what he was selling today. Oddly, it's a little
paler in color than the normal stuff.

Steve

On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:34:27 -0700, Theron wrote:

> I just made a tasty Bolognese Sauce. Nothing profound, though it's tasty
> with a good bulk sausage rather than beef or veal. I'd welcome thoughts.
>
> 1 medium onion, chopped - 1 cup
> 3 stalks celery, chopped - 1 cup
> 1 1/2 lb bulk Italian Sausage
> 1 1/2 Cups milk
> 1 1/2 C white wine
> 2 C canned diced tomatoes
> 1 TB dried provencial herbs
> 1 TB dried oregano
> salt and pepper to taste.
>
> Brown onion, dried provencial herbs and dried oregano lightly for 5 minutes;
> add celery and cook another five minutes. Add sausage, and saute lightly,
> only until the meat loses color. Add milk and simmer 10 minutes, reducing
> milk by about 75%. Add wine and let wine-milk simmer until almost absorbed,
> leaving about a cup. Strain to separate meat from remaining cooking liquid.
> Use separator funnel to remove fat from cooking liquie. Combine meat,
> cooking liquid and tomatoes in sauce pan. Slowly warm so sauce ebulates
> only slightly. Cook partially covered for 3 hours, adding water if too much
> evaporation occurs. .

what does 'ebulates' mean? google was not much help.

your pal,
blake

On Aug 9, 8:33*am, blake murphy > wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:34:27 -0700, Theron wrote:
> > I just made a tasty Bolognese Sauce. Nothing profound, though it's tasty
> > with a good bulk sausage rather than beef or veal. I'd welcome thoughts..
> [snip ingredients]
> > Brown onion, dried provencial herbs and dried oregano lightly for 5 minutes;
> > add celery and cook another five minutes. *Add sausage, and saute lightly,
> > only until the meat loses color. *Add milk and simmer 10 minutes, reducing
> > milk by about *75%. Add wine and let wine-milk simmer until almost absorbed,
> > leaving about a cup. Strain to separate meat from remaining cooking liquid.
> > Use separator funnel to remove fat from cooking liquie. Combine meat,
> > cooking liquid and tomatoes in sauce pan. *Slowly warm so sauce ebulates
> > only slightly. Cook partially covered for 3 hours, adding water if too much
> > evaporation occurs. .
>
> what does 'ebulates' mean? *google was not much help.
>
From the context and stem you'd have to guess it's 'boils' or
'bubbles'. From Latin ebullire ‘boil up’ as is 'ebullient.' -
aem

"aem" > wrote in message
...
On Aug 9, 8:33 am, blake murphy > wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:34:27 -0700, Theron wrote:
> > I just made a tasty Bolognese Sauce. Nothing profound, though it's tasty
> > with a good bulk sausage rather than beef or veal. I'd welcome thoughts.
> [snip ingredients]
> > Brown onion, dried provencial herbs and dried oregano lightly for 5
> > minutes;
> > add celery and cook another five minutes. Add sausage, and saute
> > lightly,
> > only until the meat loses color. Add milk and simmer 10 minutes,
> > reducing
> > milk by about 75%. Add wine and let wine-milk simmer until almost
> > absorbed,
> > leaving about a cup. Strain to separate meat from remaining cooking
> > liquid.
> > Use separator funnel to remove fat from cooking liquie. Combine meat,
> > cooking liquid and tomatoes in sauce pan. Slowly warm so sauce ebulates
> > only slightly. Cook partially covered for 3 hours, adding water if too
> > much
> > evaporation occurs. .
>
> what does 'ebulates' mean? google was not much help.
>
From the context and stem you'd have to guess it's 'boils' or
'bubbles'. From Latin ebullire ‘boil up’ as is 'ebullient.' -
aem
>
>
I did mispell it. It should have been: ebulliate To boil or to bubble up. I
have been mispelling it all these years.

a fine ebullience,

Ed

Steve Pope wrote:
> Jean B. > wrote:
>
>> Please report on the boar. Here when restaurants use that term I
>> think it is just pork.
>
> Well, certainly it's pork, it's from a pig, but that pig should be
> of the species _sus scrofa_ instead of _sus domesticus_ .
>
> I'm part way through making this ragu. The boar is very good,
> but I would say no better than the same farmer's normal pork.
> It's just what he was selling today. Oddly, it's a little
> paler in color than the normal stuff.
>
> Steve

I did mean domestic pig/pork. Thanks for that info. It seems
there is no reason then to search for boar--unless one actually
finds wild boar. I can get good pork (at least some of the year).

--
Jean B.

"Jean B." ha scritto nel messaggio
Steve Pope wrote:


>> I'm part way through making this ragu. The boar is very good,>> but I
>> would say no better than the same farmer's normal pork. >> It's just what
>> he was selling today. Oddly, it's a little>> paler in color than the
>> normal stuff.
>
> I did mean domestic pig/pork. Thanks for that info. It seems > there is
> no reason then to search for boar--unless one actually > finds wild boar.
> I can get good pork (at least some of the year).

I have some in the freezer right now. It is much leaner and darker than
domestic pork, but I confess I have always wondered if the vast difference
in dishes is not the handling as much as the meat. The best I ever had was
cooked by a Chilean girl who has lived here a long time but had never made
wild boar before. Her description of what she did sounded French, all the
ingredients were Italian and the cook was South American. Fusion works!
She has only the vaguest description to offer of what she did.
Wild pork here is always spiced in a very ancient manner and always cooked
very slow and long. You can buy it at certain vendors or if you know one of
the official hunters you are given some. If you sat in my garden late at
night with a big gun you could shoot the five that wreck it periodically.

Theron wrote:

> I just made a tasty Bolognese Sauce. Nothing profound, though it's
> tasty with a good bulk sausage rather than beef or veal. I'd welcome
> thoughts.
> 1 medium onion, chopped - 1 cup
> 3 stalks celery, chopped - 1 cup
> 1 1/2 lb bulk Italian Sausage
> 1 1/2 Cups milk
> 1 1/2 C white wine
> 2 C canned diced tomatoes
> 1 TB dried provencial herbs
> 1 TB dried oregano
> salt and pepper to taste.

I usually make a similar ragu', but I use plain sausage (just meat, fat,
salt & pepper, no spices or herbs) and a ground lean cut of beef. The rest
of the ingredients is almost the same, as is the method.

> Toss to your liking with pasta. We like fresh linguini, which we
> fortunately can obtain readily here. Top with grated cheese of
> choice. Serve with garlic bread.

Linguine are a good choice for a ragu' like this. My other options for ragu'
a
- any other pasta format
- rice, adding the ragu' at 2-3 minutes before removing from fire
- over polenta
- over bread as a kind of warm snack
- over pizza. I'm the only one doing it here, and some pizzaioli refuse do
to it even if they have ragu' at hand for other dishes. Some pizzaioli who I
asked "pizza al ragu'" got really ****ed by my request, LOL
--
Vilco
Mai guardare Trailer park Boys senza
qualcosa da bere a portata di mano

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:25:35 -0700, Theron wrote:

> "aem" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Aug 9, 8:33 am, blake murphy > wrote:
>> On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:34:27 -0700, Theron wrote:
>>> I just made a tasty Bolognese Sauce. Nothing profound, though it's tasty
>>> with a good bulk sausage rather than beef or veal. I'd welcome thoughts.
>> [snip ingredients]
>>> Brown onion, dried provencial herbs and dried oregano lightly for 5
>>> minutes;
>>> add celery and cook another five minutes. Add sausage, and saute
>>> lightly,
>>> only until the meat loses color. Add milk and simmer 10 minutes,
>>> reducing
>>> milk by about 75%. Add wine and let wine-milk simmer until almost
>>> absorbed,
>>> leaving about a cup. Strain to separate meat from remaining cooking
>>> liquid.
>>> Use separator funnel to remove fat from cooking liquie. Combine meat,
>>> cooking liquid and tomatoes in sauce pan. Slowly warm so sauce ebulates
>>> only slightly. Cook partially covered for 3 hours, adding water if too
>>> much
>>> evaporation occurs. .
>>
>> what does 'ebulates' mean? google was not much help.
>>
> From the context and stem you'd have to guess it's 'boils' or
> 'bubbles'. From Latin ebullire ‘boil up’ as is 'ebullient.' -
> aem
>>
>>
> I did mispell it. It should have been: ebulliate To boil or to bubble up. I
> have been mispelling it all these years.
>
> a fine ebullience,
>
> Ed

o.k., 'ebullience' i know, and the meaning was pretty clear from the
context. but i like to keep an eye on these things because english is
sneaky and devious, so you gotta watch it every second.

your pal,
blake

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:24:05 +0200, Giusi wrote:

> "Jean B." ha scritto nel messaggio
> Steve Pope wrote:
>
>>> I'm part way through making this ragu. The boar is very good,>> but I
>>> would say no better than the same farmer's normal pork. >> It's just what
>>> he was selling today. Oddly, it's a little>> paler in color than the
>>> normal stuff.
>>
>> I did mean domestic pig/pork. Thanks for that info. It seems > there is
>> no reason then to search for boar--unless one actually > finds wild boar.
>> I can get good pork (at least some of the year).
>
> I have some in the freezer right now. It is much leaner and darker than
> domestic pork, but I confess I have always wondered if the vast difference
> in dishes is not the handling as much as the meat. The best I ever had was
> cooked by a Chilean girl who has lived here a long time but had never made
> wild boar before. Her description of what she did sounded French, all the
> ingredients were Italian and the cook was South American. Fusion works!
> She has only the vaguest description to offer of what she did.
> Wild pork here is always spiced in a very ancient manner and always cooked
> very slow and long. You can buy it at certain vendors or if you know one of
> the official hunters you are given some. If you sat in my garden late at
> night with a big gun you could shoot the five that wreck it periodically.

the swine!

your pal,
blake

Giusi > wrote:

> I have some in the freezer right now. It is much leaner and darker than
> domestic pork, but I confess I have always wondered if the vast difference
> in dishes is not the handling as much as the meat.

Yes, exactly. It is a relatively mild-tasting meat, especially if
young, and one can actually use many pork recipes unchanged.

I once posted a funny story by Edouard de Pomiane about game dishes
having to be marinated to be believed to be game at all.

Victor

Giusi wrote:
> I have some in the freezer right now. It is much leaner and darker than
> domestic pork, but I confess I have always wondered if the vast difference
> in dishes is not the handling as much as the meat. The best I ever had was
> cooked by a Chilean girl who has lived here a long time but had never made
> wild boar before. Her description of what she did sounded French, all the
> ingredients were Italian and the cook was South American. Fusion works!
> She has only the vaguest description to offer of what she did.
> Wild pork here is always spiced in a very ancient manner and always cooked
> very slow and long. You can buy it at certain vendors or if you know one of
> the official hunters you are given some. If you sat in my garden late at
> night with a big gun you could shoot the five that wreck it periodically.
>
>
Good point re the cooking method. Now I wish I was there to try
this dish!

--
Jean B.

In article >,
(Victor Sack) wrote:

> Giusi > wrote:
>
> > I have some in the freezer right now. It is much leaner and darker than
> > domestic pork, but I confess I have always wondered if the vast difference
> > in dishes is not the handling as much as the meat.
>
> Yes, exactly. It is a relatively mild-tasting meat, especially if
> young, and one can actually use many pork recipes unchanged.
>
> I once posted a funny story by Edouard de Pomiane about game dishes
> having to be marinated to be believed to be game at all.
>
> Victor

This is interesting to hear. Despite a long lifetime in Northern
California, I have never tasted the wild boar/feral pigs that are so
common here. (There is no closed season.) On the contrary, I have have
had many samples of venison taken from the same regions and they are
usually quite gamey. Different diets?? I would guess the pigs are
delicious when taken in the Fall as there are plentiful acorns around
the region then. I would like to prepare some in a Dalmatian pasticada.

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
. ..
> On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:25:35 -0700, Theron wrote:
>
>> "aem" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> On Aug 9, 8:33 am, blake murphy > wrote:
>>> On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:34:27 -0700, Theron wrote:
>>>> I just made a tasty Bolognese Sauce. Nothing profound, though it's
>>>> tasty
>>>> with a good bulk sausage rather than beef or veal. I'd welcome
>>>> thoughts.
>>> [snip ingredients]
>>>> Brown onion, dried provencial herbs and dried oregano lightly for 5
>>>> minutes;
>>>> add celery and cook another five minutes. Add sausage, and saute
>>>> lightly,
>>>> only until the meat loses color. Add milk and simmer 10 minutes,
>>>> reducing
>>>> milk by about 75%. Add wine and let wine-milk simmer until almost
>>>> absorbed,
>>>> leaving about a cup. Strain to separate meat from remaining cooking
>>>> liquid.
>>>> Use separator funnel to remove fat from cooking liquie. Combine meat,
>>>> cooking liquid and tomatoes in sauce pan. Slowly warm so sauce ebulates
>>>> only slightly. Cook partially covered for 3 hours, adding water if too
>>>> much
>>>> evaporation occurs. .
>>>
>>> what does 'ebulates' mean? google was not much help.
>>>
>> From the context and stem you'd have to guess it's 'boils' or
>> 'bubbles'. From Latin ebullire 'boil up' as is 'ebullient.' -
>> aem
>>>
>>>
>> I did mispell it. It should have been: ebulliate To boil or to bubble up.
>> I
>> have been mispelling it all these years.
>>
>> a fine ebullience,
>>
>> Ed
>
> o.k., 'ebullience' i know, and the meaning was pretty clear from the
> context. but i like to keep an eye on these things because english is
> sneaky and devious, so you gotta watch it every second.
>
> your pal,
> blake
>
>
Thanks so much for pointing this out! That's what Usenet is all about. I
can't imagine who, amongst those I am surrounded by, would have straightened
me out.
Thanks again,

Ed

"Jean B." ha scritto nel messaggio
> Giusi wrote:

If you sat in my garden late at >> night with a big gun you could shoot the
five that wreck it periodically.
>>
>>
> Good point re the cooking method. Now I wish I was there to try > this
> dish!

Are you offering to sit in my garden with a gun? Great! There is also a
fig pecking bird that cries like a hurt kitten all night. Don't kill him,
just convince himn to go somewhere else.

Don Martinich wrote:

> This is interesting to hear. Despite a long lifetime in Northern
> California, I have never tasted the wild boar/feral pigs that are so
> common here. (There is no closed season.) On the contrary, I have have
> had many samples of venison taken from the same regions and they are
> usually quite gamey. Different diets?? I would guess the pigs are
> delicious when taken in the Fall as there are plentiful acorns around
> the region then. I would like to prepare some in a Dalmatian pasticada.

The feral pigs you have in mind may well taste differently from real
wild boar, which is not native to America. Real boar is perhaps the
least gamy of any furred game. As to venison, there are just too many
variables. A lot of venison here in Germany is farmed and is rarely at
all gamy. Wild venison varies quite a bit in taste, and diet plays its
part, too. If wild, fallow deer will taste milder than, for example,
red deer. Roe deer will taste milder still. The younger the deer, the
milder it will taste in each case.

Victor

Giusi > wrote:

>"Jean B." ha scritto nel messaggio

>Steve Pope wrote:

>>> The boar is very good, but I would say no better than the same
>>> farmer's normal pork.

>> I did mean domestic pig/pork. Thanks for that info. It seems
>> there is no reason then to search for boar--unless one actually
>> finds wild boar.

I should mention the farmer in question produces excellent pork.
I would say the boar is enough different to be worth trying.

Also, in North America any "wild boar" from the wild is likely
to be feral pig, not boar. (i.e. it is likely _sus domesticus_ ).

> I have some in the freezer right now. It is much leaner and
> darker than domestic pork, but I confess I have always wondered
> if the vast difference in dishes is not the handling as much
> as the meat. The best I ever had was cooked by a Chilean
> girl who has lived here a long time but had never made wild
> boar before. Her description of what she did sounded French,
> all the ingredients were Italian and the cook was South American.
> Fusion works! She has only the vaguest description to offer of
> what she did. Wild pork here is always spiced in a very ancient
> manner and always cooked very slow and long. You can buy it at
> certain vendors or if you know one of the official hunters you
> are given some. If you sat in my garden late at night with a
> big gun you could shoot the five that wreck it periodically.

Interesting. I have had boar pancetta that was from Italy,
and it was excellent, and also darker in color than you'd
expect. Not sure if it was wild boar that was hunted down.

Steve

Steve wrote on Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:06:27 +0000 (UTC):

>> "Jean B." ha scritto nel messaggio

>> Steve Pope wrote:

>>>> The boar is very good, but I would say no better than the
>>>> same farmer's normal pork.

>>> I did mean domestic pig/pork. Thanks for that info. It
>>> seems there is no reason then to search for boar--unless one
>>> actually finds wild boar.

> I should mention the farmer in question produces excellent
> pork. I would say the boar is enough different to be worth
> trying.

> Also, in North America any "wild boar" from the wild is likely
> to be feral pig, not boar. (i.e. it is likely _sus
> domesticus_ ).

>> I have some in the freezer right now. It is much leaner and
>> darker than domestic pork, but I confess I have always
>> wondered if the vast difference in dishes is not the handling
>> as much as the meat. The best I ever had was cooked by a
>> Chilean girl who has lived here a long time but had never
>> made wild boar before. Her description of what she did
>> sounded French, all the ingredients were Italian and the cook
>> was South American. Fusion works! She has only the vaguest
>> description to offer of what she did. Wild pork here is
>> always spiced in a very ancient manner and always cooked very
>> slow and long. You can buy it at certain vendors or if you
>> know one of the official hunters you are given some. If you
>> sat in my garden late at night with a big gun you could shoot
>> the five that wreck it periodically.

> Interesting. I have had boar pancetta that was from Italy,
> and it was excellent, and also darker in color than you'd
> expect. Not sure if it was wild boar that was hunted down.

The wild boar found in the US is probably a feral and uncastrated Sus
Domesticus. I don't think the wild Sus Scrofa is known in the US tho'
it's said to be common in forests of Europe and the east.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

In article >,
Victor Sack > wrote:

> Don Martinich wrote:
>
> > This is interesting to hear. Despite a long lifetime in Northern
> > California, I have never tasted the wild boar/feral pigs that are so
> > common here. (There is no closed season.) On the contrary, I have have
> > had many samples of venison taken from the same regions and they are
> > usually quite gamey. Different diets?? I would guess the pigs are
> > delicious when taken in the Fall as there are plentiful acorns around
> > the region then. I would like to prepare some in a Dalmatian pasticada.
>
> The feral pigs you have in mind may well taste differently from real
> wild boar, which is not native to America. Real boar is perhaps the
> least gamy of any furred game. As to venison, there are just too many
> variables. A lot of venison here in Germany is farmed and is rarely at
> all gamy. Wild venison varies quite a bit in taste, and diet plays its
> part, too. If wild, fallow deer will taste milder than, for example,
> red deer. Roe deer will taste milder still. The younger the deer, the
> milder it will taste in each case.
>
> Victor

There have been a number of introductions of European wild boar into the
U.S. This has been exhaustively covered in "Wild Pigs in the United
States" by John J. Mayer, Jr. and I. Lehr Brisbin. There has been much
hybridization with feral hogs over time resulting in the dilution of the
European genes. The authors consider both strains and their hybrid, 'Sus
scrofa'. I suspect diet ( with other variables such as age, sex, etc.
being equal) is the the most important variable causing gamier flavors
among wild pigs. Deer, as you mention, are subject to the same
variables, plus, here in California, regional ecosystems vary greatly.
Compare coastal Oak Woodland with high-altitude Sagebrush Steppe. But
the real differences between hogs and deer are in their
gastro-intestinal systems. Deer are ruminants and pigs are omnivores
with a digestive system similar to humans. I find it amusing that the
'vegetarians' have the gamier meat.

D.M.

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 13:42:35 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:

>Steve Pope wrote:
>> Jean B. > wrote:


>I did mean domestic pig/pork. Thanks for that info. It seems
>there is no reason then to search for boar--unless one actually
>finds wild boar. I can get good pork (at least some of the year).

Here in Texas we have hybrid wild pigs. Some years back I was
helping to thin some out of a State Park (Near port aransas) and
brought one back home (dead, of course). After butchering that
guy out, we noticed the meat was redder and more flavorful
than the domestic stuff. We chalked it up to diet; the wild ones
down there lived on cattail roots and the like. I am told that in
East TExas (near the ArkLaTex) they see the same thing because
the pigs eat a lot of stuff like acorns, rather than swine chows.

Alex

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 09:17:31 -0700 (PDT), aem >
wrote:


>From the context and stem you'd have to guess it's 'boils' or
>'bubbles'. From Latin ebullire ‘boil up’ as is 'ebullient.' -

Right. I would guess from the recipe the proper level is
what some people call "smiling" .... the simmer where you
can see the surface move and swirl, but no actual bubbles.
FE: a rolling boil can make scratch chicken soup cloudy,
while cooking at that "smiling" level allows the chicken
to cook into a clear broth.

ALex

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:41:59 GMT, "ViLco" > wrote:

>Theron wrote:
>
>> I just made a tasty Bolognese Sauce. Nothing profound, though it's
>> tasty with a good bulk sausage rather than beef or veal. I'd welcome
>> thoughts.
>> 1 medium onion, chopped - 1 cup
>> 3 stalks celery, chopped - 1 cup
>> 1 1/2 lb bulk Italian Sausage
>> 1 1/2 Cups milk
>> 1 1/2 C white wine
>> 2 C canned diced tomatoes
>> 1 TB dried provencial herbs
>> 1 TB dried oregano
>> salt and pepper to taste.
>
>I usually make a similar ragu', but I use plain sausage (just meat, fat,
>salt & pepper, no spices or herbs) and a ground lean cut of beef. The rest
>of the ingredients is almost the same, as is the method.

Sidelight. Some my bolognese recipes call for chicken livers in
addition to the above more normal stuff. Anybody run into this?

Alex

Chemiker wrote:

> Sidelight. Some my bolognese recipes call for chicken livers in
> addition to the above more normal stuff. Anybody run into this?

Chicken liver are certainly not in the traditional ragù alla bolognese.
I posted the "official" recipe befo
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/msg/552e2e7f7896a68f>.

Victor

"Victor Sack" ha scritto nel messaggio
> Chemiker wrote:
>
>> Sidelight. Some my bolognese recipes call for chicken livers in>>
>> addition to the above more normal stuff.

> Chicken liver are certainly not in the traditional ragù alla bolognese.> I
> posted the "official" recipe befo
> <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/msg/552e2e7f7896a68f>.
>
> Victor

Chemiker is mixing up Bolognese and ragù. Artusi mentions the use of
livers, but then he never dreamed a bunch of govt swots would write and file
an official recipe.

On 2009-08-13, Becca > wrote:

> Be careful down there. In Port Aransas, I saw mosquitos as big as
> chickens.

Perhaps sf has a recipe for spatchcocked mosquitos.

nb

Chemiker wrote:
> Here in Texas we have hybrid wild pigs. Some years back I was
> helping to thin some out of a State Park (Near port aransas) and
> brought one back home (dead, of course). After butchering that
> guy out, we noticed the meat was redder and more flavorful
> than the domestic stuff. We chalked it up to diet; the wild ones
> down there lived on cattail roots and the like. I am told that in
> East TExas (near the ArkLaTex) they see the same thing because
> the pigs eat a lot of stuff like acorns, rather than swine chows.
>
> Alex
>

Be careful down there. In Port Aransas, I saw mosquitos as big as
chickens.


Becca

Giusi > wrote:

> "Victor Sack" ha scritto nel messaggio
>
> > Chicken liver are certainly not in the traditional ragù alla bolognese.> I
> > posted the "official" recipe befo
> > <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/msg/552e2e7f7896a68f>.
>
> Chemiker is mixing up Bolognese and ragù. Artusi mentions the use of
> livers, but then he never dreamed a bunch of govt swots would write and file
> an official recipe.

It was the Accademia Italiana della Cucina, an independent organisation
researching regional cooking, and the recipe was deposited at the
Bologna Chamber of Commerce as a kind of national treasure.

To be fair, a lot of people in Bologna do now use chicken livers in
their ragù. Theirs is just not a traditional ragù alla bolognese.

The Accademia seems to be becoming less traditional in what it lets
loose on the unsuspecting populace. In its more modern Ricettario
there is a recipe for lasagne verdi alla bolognese which does contain
chicken livers. See
<http://www.accademiaitalianacucina.it/cgi-bin/dbview.pl?ricette.txt+dbviewer.html+275>.

BTW, it appears you are fixing your quoting manually. You might want
to install OE-QuoteFix. See <http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/>.

Victor

In article >,
(Victor Sack) wrote:

> Giusi > wrote:
>
> > "Victor Sack" ha scritto nel messaggio
> >
> > > Chicken liver are certainly not in the traditional ragù alla bolognese.>
> > > I
> > > posted the "official" recipe befo
> > > <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/msg/552e2e7f7896a68f>.
> >
> > Chemiker is mixing up Bolognese and ragù. Artusi mentions the use of
> > livers, but then he never dreamed a bunch of govt swots would write and
> > file
> > an official recipe.
>
> It was the Accademia Italiana della Cucina, an independent organisation
> researching regional cooking, and the recipe was deposited at the
> Bologna Chamber of Commerce as a kind of national treasure.
>
> To be fair, a lot of people in Bologna do now use chicken livers in
> their ragù. Theirs is just not a traditional ragù alla bolognese.
>
> The Accademia seems to be becoming less traditional in what it lets
> loose on the unsuspecting populace. In its more modern Ricettario
> there is a recipe for lasagne verdi alla bolognese which does contain
> chicken livers. See
> <http://www.accademiaitalianacucina.i...e.txt+dbviewer.
> html+275>.

Elizabeth David in her "Italian Food" (1958) recipe for ragu includes
chicken livers. And the 1969 publication (in English) of Ada Boni's
"Italian Regional Cooking" also includes chicken liver as an option in
the ragu. It certainly adds an interesting flavor dimension. My guess
would be that the "official" version of the dish rarely leaves it's
vault in the chamber of commerce while happy Bolognese continue to
consume their richer versions.

D.M.

On Thu 13 Aug 2009 05:58:00p, Don Martinich told us...

> In article >,
> (Victor Sack) wrote:
>
>> Giusi > wrote:
>>
>> > "Victor Sack" ha scritto nel messaggio
>> >
>> > > Chicken liver are certainly not in the traditional ragù alla
>> > > bolognese.> I
>> > > posted the "official" recipe befo
>> > > <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...52e2e7f7896a68
>> > > f>.
>> >
>> > Chemiker is mixing up Bolognese and ragù. Artusi mentions the use of
>> > livers, but then he never dreamed a bunch of govt swots would write
>> > and file an official recipe.
>>
>> It was the Accademia Italiana della Cucina, an independent organisation
>> researching regional cooking, and the recipe was deposited at the
>> Bologna Chamber of Commerce as a kind of national treasure.
>>
>> To be fair, a lot of people in Bologna do now use chicken livers in
>> their ragù. Theirs is just not a traditional ragù alla bolognese.
>>
>> The Accademia seems to be becoming less traditional in what it lets
>> loose on the unsuspecting populace. In its more modern Ricettario
>> there is a recipe for lasagne verdi alla bolognese which does contain
>> chicken livers. See
>> <http://www.accademiaitalianacucina.i...icette.txt+dbv
>> iewer. html+275>.
>
> Elizabeth David in her "Italian Food" (1958) recipe for ragu includes
> chicken livers. And the 1969 publication (in English) of Ada Boni's
> "Italian Regional Cooking" also includes chicken liver as an option in
> the ragu. It certainly adds an interesting flavor dimension. My guess
> would be that the "official" version of the dish rarely leaves it's
> vault in the chamber of commerce while happy Bolognese continue to
> consume their richer versions.
>
> D.M.
>

The only recipes of this I've cooked called for chicken livers. The
amouont was not such as to lend a "liver" flavor to the dish, but
definitely enriched the sauce.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vegetables are interesting but lack a sense of purpose when
unaccompanied by a good cut of meat. Fran Lebowitz

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:23:00 -0500, Becca > wrote:


>
>Be careful down there. In Port Aransas, I saw mosquitos as big as
>chickens.

Not a joke.

Mosquitoes are tough there. We had some hunters scouting out the
tall grass looking for pig sign, while some of us stayed up in a
stand.

You could tell where the pigs were, sometimes...., by the way the
tops of the grass parted, but it took binoculars. We could always tell
where our friends were, tho. There were grey clouds over their heads
that could be seen with the naked eye 100 yds off. Skeeters. More than
4.

Our guide, a Parks guy, was carrying a Win. .458 African. My 30-'06
was considered min. All carried sidearms. His was a .357 Mag, FMJ,
158, which was min. I carried a SA .44 Mag, 240 gn Silhouette slugs.
You DON"T want to meet a pig at close quarters.

One of our group had hunted pigs nearby and told us he used a
30-30 in that hunt. He shot one from a truck bed, right in the
shoulder. He said all it did was pi$$ piggie off. Someone else killed
the animal with a proper weapon, and when they examined the
carcass, they found the 30-30 bullet had penetrated only about
1 1/2 inches into the pig, being stopped by the gristle layer
under its skin. That's why I was using Nosler partition 180's in the
rifle and silhouette slugs in the pistol.

OTOH, nothing stopped the skeeters. I donated blood that day.

Alex

OB Food: Commercial butchers here can't or won't handle wild
game, as a rule. We got a chart and a hacksaw and butchered
my pig, up close and personal. It was worth it. Delicious!

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:22:03 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>On 2009-08-13, Becca > wrote:
>
>> Be careful down there. In Port Aransas, I saw mosquitos as big as
>> chickens.
>
>Perhaps sf has a recipe for spatchcocked mosquitos.
>
I don't think they pass as Kosher.....

ALex, noting they neither chew the cud nor cleave the hoof.

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:58:00 -0700, Don Martinich >
wrote:

>In article >,
> (Victor Sack) wrote:
>
>> Giusi > wrote:

>Elizabeth David in her "Italian Food" (1958) recipe for ragu includes
>chicken livers. And the 1969 publication (in English) of Ada Boni's
>"Italian Regional Cooking" also includes chicken liver as an option in
>the ragu. It certainly adds an interesting flavor dimension. My guess
>would be that the "official" version of the dish rarely leaves it's
>vault in the chamber of commerce while happy Bolognese continue to
>consume their richer versions.

Well, that sort of closes the loop. One of my sources was Boni's Il
Talismano della Felicita, English.

Alex

"Chemiker" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:23:00 -0500, Becca > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Be careful down there. In Port Aransas, I saw mosquitos as big as
>>chickens.
>
> Not a joke.
>
> Mosquitoes are tough there. We had some hunters scouting out the
> tall grass looking for pig sign, while some of us stayed up in a
> stand.
>
> You could tell where the pigs were, sometimes...., by the way the
> tops of the grass parted, but it took binoculars. We could always tell
> where our friends were, tho. There were grey clouds over their heads
> that could be seen with the naked eye 100 yds off. Skeeters. More than
> 4.
>
> Our guide, a Parks guy, was carrying a Win. .458 African. My 30-'06
> was considered min. All carried sidearms. His was a .357 Mag, FMJ,
> 158, which was min. I carried a SA .44 Mag, 240 gn Silhouette slugs.
> You DON"T want to meet a pig at close quarters.
>
> One of our group had hunted pigs nearby and told us he used a
> 30-30 in that hunt. He shot one from a truck bed, right in the
> shoulder. He said all it did was pi$$ piggie off. Someone else killed
> the animal with a proper weapon, and when they examined the
> carcass, they found the 30-30 bullet had penetrated only about
> 1 1/2 inches into the pig, being stopped by the gristle layer
> under its skin. That's why I was using Nosler partition 180's in the
> rifle and silhouette slugs in the pistol.
>
> OTOH, nothing stopped the skeeters. I donated blood that day.
>
> Alex
>
> OB Food: Commercial butchers here can't or won't handle wild
> game, as a rule. We got a chart and a hacksaw and butchered
> my pig, up close and personal. It was worth it. Delicious!


We live in Shreveport, LA... about 10 miles from the East Texas border. My
BIL lives about an hour west in East Texas and has seen groups of wild hogs
near his garden... as many as 15 to 20 at a time. He figures he'll nail one
sometime soon and we'll see how it tastes.

George L

Don Martinich wrote:

> Elizabeth David in her "Italian Food" (1958) recipe for ragu includes
> chicken livers. And the 1969 publication (in English) of Ada Boni's
> "Italian Regional Cooking" also includes chicken liver as an option in
> the ragu. It certainly adds an interesting flavor dimension. My guess
> would be that the "official" version of the dish rarely leaves it's
> vault in the chamber of commerce while happy Bolognese continue to
> consume their richer versions.

Ada Boni was a member of the Accademia Italiana della Cucina and, along
with Roberto Bosi, Vittorio Camilla, Giorgio Marcolungo, Anna Martini,
Lamberto Paronetto, Mariella Pizzetti and Francesco Spagnoli, other
Accademia members, was the author of _Il grande libro della cucina
italiana_ whence that recipe came. The book took 30 years of research
and came out in 1986.

Once one starts adding such things as chicken livers, one could as well
go all the way and make vincisgrassi, but then it would be a marchegiano
dish, not bolognese (but Waverley Root does describe it as a poor man's
version of lasagne bolognesi - which is wrong, because there is nothing
poor about it).

Victor

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:50:17 -0500, Chemiker wrote:

> On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 09:17:31 -0700 (PDT), aem >
> wrote:
>
>>From the context and stem you'd have to guess it's 'boils' or
>>'bubbles'. From Latin ebullire ‘boil up’ as is 'ebullient.' -
>
> Right. I would guess from the recipe the proper level is
> what some people call "smiling" .... the simmer where you
> can see the surface move and swirl, but no actual bubbles.
> FE: a rolling boil can make scratch chicken soup cloudy,
> while cooking at that "smiling" level allows the chicken
> to cook into a clear broth.
>
> ALex

i've always thought that sense of the word 'smiling' was utterly charming.

your pal,
blake