Does anyone have a good recipe/method for making cucumber kimchi?
I've only attempted it once and felt it was lacking something, but can't
say what? Also I want to make sure it doesn't get watery as it never is
when I have eaten it at restaurants. So I think the method is important.
The stuff I like is hot yet a touch of sweet also.

On Aug 13, 8:51*am, Goomba > wrote:
> Does anyone have a good recipe/method for making cucumber kimchi?
> I've only attempted it once and felt it was lacking something, but can't
> say what? Also I want to make sure it doesn't get watery as it never is
> when I have eaten it at restaurants. So I think the method is important.
> The stuff I like is hot yet a touch of sweet also.

"Can't say what" or...won't say what?

Try this:
Ingredients:

2 teaspoon salt
1 Tablespoon vinegar
1 Tablespoon sugar
1/2 to 1 teaspoon Korean red pepper powder or 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon
cayenne
2 medium seedless cucumbers, peeled an cut lengthwise into thin, 4-
inch long slices
1 medium white onion, cut in half, then cut into thin slices


Instructions:
In a large jar, thoroughly mix together the salt, vinegar, sugar, and
Korean red pepper powder. Add the cucumber and onion slices, then mix.
Refrigerate for 2 to 3 hours before serving.

"Goomba" > wrote in message
...
> Does anyone have a good recipe/method for making cucumber kimchi?
> I've only attempted it once and felt it was lacking something, but can't
> say what? Also I want to make sure it doesn't get watery as it never is
> when I have eaten it at restaurants. So I think the method is important.
> The stuff I like is hot yet a touch of sweet also.

I just posted a recipe not 20 minutes ago.

Chemo the Clown wrote:
> On Aug 13, 8:51 am, Goomba > wrote:
>> Does anyone have a good recipe/method for making cucumber kimchi?
>> I've only attempted it once and felt it was lacking something, but can't
>> say what? Also I want to make sure it doesn't get watery as it never is
>> when I have eaten it at restaurants. So I think the method is important.
>> The stuff I like is hot yet a touch of sweet also.
>
> "Can't say what" or...won't say what?
>
> Try this:
> Ingredients:
>
> 2 teaspoon salt
> 1 Tablespoon vinegar
> 1 Tablespoon sugar
> 1/2 to 1 teaspoon Korean red pepper powder or 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon
> cayenne
> 2 medium seedless cucumbers, peeled an cut lengthwise into thin, 4-
> inch long slices
> 1 medium white onion, cut in half, then cut into thin slices
>
>
> Instructions:
> In a large jar, thoroughly mix together the salt, vinegar, sugar, and
> Korean red pepper powder. Add the cucumber and onion slices, then mix.
> Refrigerate for 2 to 3 hours before serving.

Looks like a good recipe but the important technique I'm familiar with
is to add a liberal amount of salt to the cut up cucumbers and let it
soak for 15 minutes to several hours. Then rinse the salt off and add
the other ingredients. Getting the proper saltiness is pretty tricky and
depends on length of time you soak the cucumbers and thickness of the
cut pieces. Thin slices require a short time. Taste your cucumber before
adding the other ingredients! If the cucumbers are too salty for your
taste, soak it in water for a while to reduce the salt.

This step is a big pain-in-the-ass to get right and you'll probably get
a few too-salty batches. However, it changes the texture of the cucumber
in a very cool way. You method is easier and pretty foolproof but the
results won't be the same - I guess. I don't think I've had this dish
prepared this way before.

It would probably be a good idea to add some garlic to this recipe - the
Koreans sure would. A little ginger couldn't hurt either. :-)

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:15:34 -0700 (PDT) in rec.food.cooking, Chemo the
Clown > wrote,
>Instructions:
>In a large jar, thoroughly mix together the salt, vinegar, sugar, and
>Korean red pepper powder. Add the cucumber and onion slices, then mix.
>Refrigerate for 2 to 3 hours before serving.

Refrigerate for 2 to 3 hours? I thought kimchi was fermented for some
while before it was done?

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:51:54 -0400, Goomba wrote:

> Does anyone have a good recipe/method for making cucumber kimchi?
> I've only attempted it once and felt it was lacking something, but can't
> say what? Also I want to make sure it doesn't get watery as it never is
> when I have eaten it at restaurants. So I think the method is important.
> The stuff I like is hot yet a touch of sweet also.

I don't have a recipe, I eyeball everything. But you need to use
pickling cukes, or what they call baby cukes or Persian cukes. They
have less water and seeds and stay crunhier.

Green onions, ginger, hot pepper paste or powder, garlic, salt... I
also throw in diakon cubes when making cuke kimchi. I never use
fish/seafood products such as dried shrimp, paste, or powders. Or
fish sauce. They are much less forgiving if you do so.

WASH ALL VEGETABLES VERY WELL

Cut off the end of cukes, quarter, and brine in 5% salt brine for
7-8 hours (with optional diakon cubes). Drain, reserving some of
the liquid for packaging/fermenting.

Add grated/pressed or sliced ginger and garlic (use less if grated)
and onions tops in 2-3" sections and halved onion stems (white parts
with roots fully removed). Never use regular onions. Add a
quantity of pepper paste or pepper powder to each jar. Leave 1/2"
headroom at top of jar.

Option 1: Screw lids on fully and burp daily.
Option 2: Screw lids on fully, then unscrew 1/4 turn.

Let sit on counter for a week or 6-12 days, then refrigerate.

-sw

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:15:34 -0700 (PDT), Chemo the Clown wrote:

> On Aug 13, 8:51*am, Goomba > wrote:
>> Does anyone have a good recipe/method for making cucumber kimchi?
>> I've only attempted it once and felt it was lacking something, but can't
>> say what? Also I want to make sure it doesn't get watery as it never is
>> when I have eaten it at restaurants. So I think the method is important.
>> The stuff I like is hot yet a touch of sweet also.
>
> "Can't say what" or...won't say what?
>
> Try this:
> Ingredients:
>
> 2 teaspoon salt
> 1 Tablespoon vinegar
> 1 Tablespoon sugar

No vinegar. No sugar.

That isn't real kimchi. That what's called a quick kimchi. And
sugar is usually only used in white kinchi.

-sw

David Harmon wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:15:34 -0700 (PDT) in rec.food.cooking, Chemo the
> Clown > wrote,
>> Instructions:
>> In a large jar, thoroughly mix together the salt, vinegar, sugar, and
>> Korean red pepper powder. Add the cucumber and onion slices, then mix.
>> Refrigerate for 2 to 3 hours before serving.
>
> Refrigerate for 2 to 3 hours? I thought kimchi was fermented for some
> while before it was done?
>
>

Cucumber kimchee is a dish you can eat without fermenting, in my awesome
opinion. That's a great advantage. I won't bother trying to make
fermented kimchee. I cheat by using a package mix from Noh foods. I
think that this type of kimchee is more suitable for Western tastes.

OTOH for fermented kimchee, a lot depends on your preferences, my wife
doesn't like old kimchee, but my guess is that most Koreans have a taste
for the soggy, limp, fermented-for-months months stuff. :-)

Goomba wrote:

> Does anyone have a good recipe/method for making cucumber kimchi?
> I've only attempted it once and felt it was lacking something, but can't
> say what? Also I want to make sure it doesn't get watery as it never is
> when I have eaten it at restaurants. So I think the method is important.
> The stuff I like is hot yet a touch of sweet also.

Adapted from _The Korean Table_:

First, make the kimchi paste. The book gives two recipes which differ only
in quantity: You can make a little (6 tablespoons) or a lot (3 cups). Here's
the recipe for the 6 tablespoons:

1/4 cup (25 grams) Korean coarse red pepper flakes
2 tablespoons water
1 tablespoon garlic paste [1]
1/2 teaspoon peeled and minced ginger root
1 teaspoon fine-grain sea salt or kosher salt [2]
2 teaspoons sugar
2 teaspoons oyster sauce
2 tablespoons fish sauce [3]

Mix all ingredients together using a rubber spatula, and store in an
airtight container in the refrigerator. (Imagine if the container were *not*
airtight!) Keeps for 2 months.

[1] To make garlic paste, mince garlic very finely and then smear it around
on a smooth surface. Since this recipe has sugar and salt, you can mince a
tablespoon of garlic, add the sugar and salt, and then smear it around to
make a paste: The grains will help to grind the garlic down to a paste.

[2] The quantities are a bit questionable here, since kosher salt is so much
coarser than fine-grained sea salt. Usually you need to double the amount of
kosher salt to get the same degree of saltiness that you get from fine salt.
I'd go with 1 1/2 teaspoons kosher salt, and then maybe add more if what I
got didn't seem right.

[3] In Korea, there's an anchovy sauce which is used to make kimchi, but
it's not generally available here. Fish sauce is a passable substitute.


Next, make the kimchi:

8 mini (pickling) cucumbers
1 tablespoon sea salt

7 oz daikon, cut into 2-inch-long matchsticks [4]
a quarter of a medium yellow onion, cut into 1-inch-long matchsticks
2 green onions, cut into 1-inch-long matchsticks
2 tablespoons kimchi paste

Lay a cucumber on its side and cut it lengthwise to within one inch of the
end, i.e., leave 1 inch at the end uncut. Then rotate it ninety degrees and
cut it lengthwise again, leaving that same 1 inch at the end uncut. (You'll
end up with a "head" end and four "legs.") Cut the remaining cucumbers the
same way.

Lay the cucumbers in the bottom of a bowl, and sprinkle the salt on top and
inside the flesh of the cucumbers. Put into the refrigerator and let the
cucumbers exude their liquid for 2 hours, then remove the cucumbers from the
bowl and discard the liquid.

Combine the remaining ingredients and mix well. (This will be the filling.)

Gently separate the "legs" of a cucumber and stuff one-eighth of the filling
into it. Close the cucumber back around the filling.

Pack the cucumbers into a plastic container, cover, and store for at least a
day. Keeps for up to three days.[5]

[4] I don't care much for daikon; I'd use carrots instead.
[5] I've had a kind of "instant" cucumber kimchi in Korea; it was made by
just slicing unwaxed cucumbers and smearing them with the kimchi paste given
above.

Bob

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:04:12 -1000, dsi1 wrote:

> David Harmon wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:15:34 -0700 (PDT) in rec.food.cooking, Chemo the
>> Clown > wrote,
>>> Instructions:
>>> In a large jar, thoroughly mix together the salt, vinegar, sugar, and
>>> Korean red pepper powder. Add the cucumber and onion slices, then mix.
>>> Refrigerate for 2 to 3 hours before serving.
>>
>> Refrigerate for 2 to 3 hours? I thought kimchi was fermented for some
>> while before it was done?
>>
>>
>
> Cucumber kimchee is a dish you can eat without fermenting, in my awesome
> opinion. That's a great advantage. I won't bother trying to make
> fermented kimchee. I cheat by using a package mix from Noh foods. I
> think that this type of kimchee is more suitable for Western tastes.
>
> OTOH for fermented kimchee, a lot depends on your preferences, my wife
> doesn't like old kimchee, but my guess is that most Koreans have a taste
> for the soggy, limp, fermented-for-months months stuff. :-)

the koreans have more recipes for kimchees than americans have for potato
salad. some are seasonal, some have seafood, etc., etc.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimchi>

but most sit for at least long enough to become somewhat pickled, if not
fermented. i would think of what chemo described above as more of a salad.

your pal,
blake

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:04:12 -1000, dsi1 wrote:
>
>> David Harmon wrote:
>>> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:15:34 -0700 (PDT) in rec.food.cooking, Chemo the
>>> Clown > wrote,
>>>> Instructions:
>>>> In a large jar, thoroughly mix together the salt, vinegar, sugar, and
>>>> Korean red pepper powder. Add the cucumber and onion slices, then mix.
>>>> Refrigerate for 2 to 3 hours before serving.
>>>
>>> Refrigerate for 2 to 3 hours? I thought kimchi was fermented for some
>>> while before it was done?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Cucumber kimchee is a dish you can eat without fermenting, in my awesome
>> opinion. That's a great advantage. I won't bother trying to make
>> fermented kimchee. I cheat by using a package mix from Noh foods. I
>> think that this type of kimchee is more suitable for Western tastes.
>>
>> OTOH for fermented kimchee, a lot depends on your preferences, my wife
>> doesn't like old kimchee, but my guess is that most Koreans have a taste
>> for the soggy, limp, fermented-for-months months stuff. :-)
>
> the koreans have more recipes for kimchees than americans have for potato
> salad. some are seasonal, some have seafood, etc., etc.
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimchi>
>
> but most sit for at least long enough to become somewhat pickled, if not
> fermented. i would think of what chemo described above as more of a
> salad.
>
Pope raaaaaaatso! Having more fun now that not so many people are kickng my
ass. )))))) I have 12 now, level 88.

cybercat > wrote:

>"blake murphy" > wrote in message

>> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:04:12 -1000, dsi1 wrote:

>>> OTOH for fermented kimchee, a lot depends on your preferences, my wife
>>> doesn't like old kimchee, but my guess is that most Koreans have a taste
>>> for the soggy, limp, fermented-for-months months stuff. :-)

>> the koreans have more recipes for kimchees than americans have for potato
>> salad. some are seasonal, some have seafood, etc., etc.

>> but most sit for at least long enough to become somewhat pickled, if not
>> fermented. i would think of what chemo described above as more of a
>> salad.

>Pope raaaaaaatso! Having more fun now that not so many people are kickng my
>ass. )))))) I have 12 now, level 88.

I'm here. I don't know how you're cottoned onto me, unless you
googled some old (or not so old) "exploding fermenting kimchee"
post of mine.

Anyway, great stuff. There's a mini-Koreatown in Oakland and
one in Alameda, and a larger one in Fremont. Kim-chee heaven.

Steve

Goomba wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a good recipe/method for making cucumber kimchi?
> I've only attempted it once and felt it was lacking something, but can't
> say what? Also I want to make sure it doesn't get watery as it never is
> when I have eaten it at restaurants. So I think the method is important.
> The stuff I like is hot yet a touch of sweet also.

Try this one:

Kimchi (From 'Korean Home Cooking') paraphrased

1 napa cabbage
2 c kosher or sea salt
2 c water or beef stock
3 oz daikon/white radish/mooli
3 oz spring/salad onions
4 oz Asian pear/nashi
1 whole bulb garlic
1 small piece fresh ginger, peeled
1/2 c fermented or dried shrimp
large pinch of shredded red chile (like Thai chile)
2 tbs sugar
water

(There are more ingredients but a Korean acquaintance said the above
version was more like a homemade version.)

Cut cabbage in half lengthwise. Mix salt and stock/water in a large
bowl. Add cabbage and soake 6--12 hours depending on room temp. Drain
and rinse cabbage briefly.

Cut the daikon in thin slices. Cut the spring onions in 1-inch strips.
Peel, core and slice the nashi/pear into thin slices. Crush the garlic
and ginger together. Mix the seasoning ingredients, including the
shrimp,red chile and sugar, in a bowl.

Separate the cabbage leaves gently and layer in a glass or ceramic bowl
(or a kimchi container) with the seasoning mix. Add a little water if
needed. Top with a large cabbage leaf or plastic wrap and a lid of some
sort. (Have often used a boiled large glass jar that previously held
pickles.) Leave in a cool place for a few days. (It should smell
fermented.) Store the finished product in the fridge.

Goomba wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a good recipe/method for making cucumber kimchi?
> I've only attempted it once and felt it was lacking something, but can't
> say what? Also I want to make sure it doesn't get watery as it never is
> when I have eaten it at restaurants. So I think the method is important.
> The stuff I like is hot yet a touch of sweet also.


Sorry...misread your request and posted a recipe for cabbage kimchi.

Arri London wrote:
>
> Goomba wrote:
>> Does anyone have a good recipe/method for making cucumber kimchi?
>> I've only attempted it once and felt it was lacking something, but can't
>> say what? Also I want to make sure it doesn't get watery as it never is
>> when I have eaten it at restaurants. So I think the method is important.
>> The stuff I like is hot yet a touch of sweet also.

One ingredient that most Westerners seem to avoid when making kimchee is
some sort of smelly fermented fish added into the recipe. If you have an
Asian market near you, look for Japanese 'shiokara,' and add 1-2 TBS to
your recipe. (It's often sold in small bottles and has a very strong
smell!) In Korea people store their kimchee in large pots OUTSIDE their
homes; on roofs, back stairs, etc., as the smell is too strong to keep
them inside. This might be what is missing from your recipe. Many
westernized recipes tone this down by using dried shrimp which gives a
very different flavor.

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:58:08 -0600, Arri London wrote:

> Try this one:
>
> Kimchi (From 'Korean Home Cooking') paraphrased
>
> 1 napa cabbage
> 2 c kosher or sea salt
> 2 c water or beef stock
> 3 oz daikon/white radish/mooli
> 3 oz spring/salad onions
> 4 oz Asian pear/nashi
> 1 whole bulb garlic
> 1 small piece fresh ginger, peeled
> 1/2 c fermented or dried shrimp
> large pinch of shredded red chile (like Thai chile)
> 2 tbs sugar
> water

I have never seen a recipe that calls for beef stock in the brine.
How odd.

-sw

MtnTraveler wrote:
>
> One ingredient that most Westerners seem to avoid when making kimchee is
> some sort of smelly fermented fish added into the recipe. If you have an
> Asian market near you, look for Japanese 'shiokara,' and add 1-2 TBS to
> your recipe. (It's often sold in small bottles and has a very strong
> smell!) In Korea people store their kimchee in large pots OUTSIDE their
> homes; on roofs, back stairs, etc., as the smell is too strong to keep
> them inside. This might be what is missing from your recipe. Many
> westernized recipes tone this down by using dried shrimp which gives a
> very different flavor.
>
>

My mother-in-law will add chopped raw oysters to her kimchee. I kid you not!

My understanding is that the Koreans in the cities will keep their
kimchee in a separate refrigerator like my mother-in-law used to before
she moved in with us. They put the refrigerator in the bedroom farthest
from the kitchen. I used to think "why the heck is there a full size
refrigerator in the bedroom?" Typically, you can get small refrigerators
at Korean stores. I believe they call these "kim chee refrigerators."

dsi1 wrote:
> MtnTraveler wrote:
>>
>> One ingredient that most Westerners seem to avoid when making kimchee
>> is some sort of smelly fermented fish added into the recipe. If you
>> have an Asian market near you, look for Japanese 'shiokara,' and add
>> 1-2 TBS to your recipe. (It's often sold in small bottles and has a
>> very strong smell!) In Korea people store their kimchee in large pots
>> OUTSIDE their homes; on roofs, back stairs, etc., as the smell is too
>> strong to keep them inside. This might be what is missing from your
>> recipe. Many westernized recipes tone this down by using dried shrimp
>> which gives a very different flavor.
>>
>>
>
> My mother-in-law will add chopped raw oysters to her kimchee. I kid you
> not!

It makes perfect sense. Many Asian cuisines require chopped or crushed
raw sea foods as flavoring. The Cambodians, Burmese, Vietnamese, and
Thai rely heavily upon crushed crabs for flavor. Very small, about 3-4cm
across the body, these live crabs get thrown into the mortar and pounded
along with various herbs and spices for addition to many, many dishes.
Thai 'Som Tam' is perhaps the most well known to the West. Frankly, it
used to frighten me when I'd come across a tiny crab claw in a salad!
Not everything gets properly crushed all the time! It took me a while to
get used to seeing it. )

Raw oysters would make a perfect addition to kimchee if you let it
ferment for a few weeks before eating. Certainly easier to get in the
West than tiny crabs or Japanese shiokara.

> My understanding is that the Koreans in the cities will keep their
> kimchee in a separate refrigerator like my mother-in-law used to before
> she moved in with us. They put the refrigerator in the bedroom farthest
> from the kitchen. I used to think "why the heck is there a full size
> refrigerator in the bedroom?" Typically, you can get small refrigerators
> at Korean stores. I believe they call these "kim chee refrigerators."

Walking around a city such as Pussan, with its extremely steep, hilly
topography gives you constant views of the roofs of poeple's homes, and
back stairs. Probably 50% have anywhere from 3-8 different sized kimchee
pots lined up (each for different types of kimchee.) I imagine for the
apartment dwellers, having a spare room for a kimchee refridge would be
the perfect solution. Unless... (and this is just conjecture) I wonder
if there is some sort of space arrangements on roofs of Korean apartment
houses, similar to the basement storage spaces in many American
apartment houses?

MtnTraveler wrote:

>> My mother-in-law will add chopped raw oysters to her kimchee. I kid you
>> not!
>
> It makes perfect sense. Many Asian cuisines require chopped or crushed raw
> sea foods as flavoring. The Cambodians, Burmese, Vietnamese, and Thai rely
> heavily upon crushed crabs for flavor. Very small, about 3-4cm across the
> body, these live crabs get thrown into the mortar and pounded along with
> various herbs and spices for addition to many, many dishes. Thai 'Som Tam'
> is perhaps the most well known to the West. Frankly, it used to frighten
> me when I'd come across a tiny crab claw in a salad!

Coming full circle, there are small crabs which live inside oysters, and can
be eaten whole along with their hosts. (They taste a bit like celery.)

Bob

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:31:09 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:58:08 -0600, Arri London wrote:
>
>> Try this one:
>>
>> Kimchi (From 'Korean Home Cooking') paraphrased
>>
>> 1 napa cabbage
>> 2 c kosher or sea salt
>> 2 c water or beef stock
>> 3 oz daikon/white radish/mooli
>> 3 oz spring/salad onions
>> 4 oz Asian pear/nashi
>> 1 whole bulb garlic
>> 1 small piece fresh ginger, peeled
>> 1/2 c fermented or dried shrimp
>> large pinch of shredded red chile (like Thai chile)
>> 2 tbs sugar
>> water
>
> I have never seen a recipe that calls for beef stock in the brine.
> How odd.
>
> -sw

me either.

maybe if made from bouillon cubes or the like, but otherwise i'd be leery
of keeping it unrefrigerated for a few days if there is any fat in it.

but then, adding raw oysters would scare me too, so who knows?

your pal,
blake

MtnTraveler wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>> My mother-in-law will add chopped raw oysters to her kimchee. I kid
>> you not!
>
> It makes perfect sense. Many Asian cuisines require chopped or crushed
> raw sea foods as flavoring. The Cambodians, Burmese, Vietnamese, and
> Thai rely heavily upon crushed crabs for flavor. Very small, about 3-4cm
> across the body, these live crabs get thrown into the mortar and pounded
> along with various herbs and spices for addition to many, many dishes.
> Thai 'Som Tam' is perhaps the most well known to the West. Frankly, it
> used to frighten me when I'd come across a tiny crab claw in a salad!
> Not everything gets properly crushed all the time! It took me a while to
> get used to seeing it. )
>
> Raw oysters would make a perfect addition to kimchee if you let it
> ferment for a few weeks before eating. Certainly easier to get in the
> West than tiny crabs or Japanese shiokara.

Somehow, raw oysters fermenting for weeks will chill me to the bones. Am
I being a wimp about all this?

>
>> My understanding is that the Koreans in the cities will keep their
>> kimchee in a separate refrigerator like my mother-in-law used to
>> before she moved in with us. They put the refrigerator in the bedroom
>> farthest from the kitchen. I used to think "why the heck is there a
>> full size refrigerator in the bedroom?" Typically, you can get small
>> refrigerators at Korean stores. I believe they call these "kim chee
>> refrigerators."
>
> Walking around a city such as Pussan, with its extremely steep, hilly
> topography gives you constant views of the roofs of poeple's homes, and
> back stairs. Probably 50% have anywhere from 3-8 different sized kimchee
> pots lined up (each for different types of kimchee.) I imagine for the
> apartment dwellers, having a spare room for a kimchee refridge would be
> the perfect solution. Unless... (and this is just conjecture) I wonder
> if there is some sort of space arrangements on roofs of Korean apartment
> houses, similar to the basement storage spaces in many American
> apartment houses?

It's an interesting questions seeing as how kimchee seems to be the
lifeblood of the Koreans. I can see kimchee as affecting their thinking,
and routines, and architecture, and lifestyles, and national identity.
It's also how blind Koreans recognize other Koreans in foreign
countries. :-)

My wife's stepmother is Korean but her family is of Irish stock from
Montana. When I first met her, she had a rather heady odor about her. It
was a very spicy scent that would cause me to move in closer to be
completely engulfed by it. I remember hovering around the back of her
neck almost in a daze. :-)

Of course, what I was smelling was her mother's kimchee. Haha. She no
longer smells this way unless she eats strong kimchee but I'll smell it
on Korean women and be reminded of those early days with my wife. Them
sure was the days!

Sqwertz wrote:
>
> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:58:08 -0600, Arri London wrote:
>
> > Try this one:
> >
> > Kimchi (From 'Korean Home Cooking') paraphrased
> >
> > 1 napa cabbage
> > 2 c kosher or sea salt
> > 2 c water or beef stock
> > 3 oz daikon/white radish/mooli
> > 3 oz spring/salad onions
> > 4 oz Asian pear/nashi
> > 1 whole bulb garlic
> > 1 small piece fresh ginger, peeled
> > 1/2 c fermented or dried shrimp
> > large pinch of shredded red chile (like Thai chile)
> > 2 tbs sugar
> > water
>
> I have never seen a recipe that calls for beef stock in the brine.
> How odd.
>
> -sw

Apparently not. The book is written by a Korean. Unlikely this person
would include something that isn't ever used at home in Korea.

blake murphy wrote:
>
> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:31:09 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:58:08 -0600, Arri London wrote:
> >
> >> Try this one:
> >>
> >> Kimchi (From 'Korean Home Cooking') paraphrased
> >>
> >> 1 napa cabbage
> >> 2 c kosher or sea salt
> >> 2 c water or beef stock
> >> 3 oz daikon/white radish/mooli
> >> 3 oz spring/salad onions
> >> 4 oz Asian pear/nashi
> >> 1 whole bulb garlic
> >> 1 small piece fresh ginger, peeled
> >> 1/2 c fermented or dried shrimp
> >> large pinch of shredded red chile (like Thai chile)
> >> 2 tbs sugar
> >> water
> >
> > I have never seen a recipe that calls for beef stock in the brine.
> > How odd.
> >
> > -sw
>
> me either.
>
> maybe if made from bouillon cubes or the like, but otherwise i'd be leery
> of keeping it unrefrigerated for a few days if there is any fat in it.
>
> but then, adding raw oysters would scare me too, so who knows?
>
> your pal,
> blake

The fermentation would destroy any harmful bacteria. That's the point of
fermentation. The desired bacteria (various lactobacilli in this case)
outcompete and create an 'unpleasant' environment for any other
microorganism.

As stated above, the recipe comes from a Korean cook.

MtnTraveler wrote:
>
> Arri London wrote:
> >
> > Goomba wrote:
> >> Does anyone have a good recipe/method for making cucumber kimchi?
> >> I've only attempted it once and felt it was lacking something, but can't
> >> say what? Also I want to make sure it doesn't get watery as it never is
> >> when I have eaten it at restaurants. So I think the method is important.
> >> The stuff I like is hot yet a touch of sweet also.
>
> One ingredient that most Westerners seem to avoid when making kimchee is
> some sort of smelly fermented fish added into the recipe. If you have an
> Asian market near you, look for Japanese 'shiokara,' and add 1-2 TBS to
> your recipe. (It's often sold in small bottles and has a very strong
> smell!) In Korea people store their kimchee in large pots OUTSIDE their
> homes; on roofs, back stairs, etc., as the smell is too strong to keep
> them inside. This might be what is missing from your recipe. Many
> westernized recipes tone this down by using dried shrimp which gives a
> very different flavor.


That's why the recipe stated 'fermented shrimp' or dried shrimp. Other
recipes I've seen use other fermented fish products. The kimchi in jars
sold locally doesn't contain those things though.

blake murphy wrote:

>
> but then, adding raw oysters would scare me too, so who knows?
>
> your pal,
> blake


Far better an oyster you know than the glop that is Japanese shiokara!
If you make your own sausages because you don't care for some of the
'parts' added by commercial sausage makers, you really do want to make
your own shiokara! Raw oysters seem as if prime rib in comparison.

It took quite some time to overcome my non-Asian pre-conceptions about
food. Some were easier than others. Raw fish wasn't a problem but large
snails were. (Small ones 'French' style were easy!) Nuc Mam wasn't even
allowed in my kitchen for a year just because of the smell. Filipino
'Balut' still doesn't sit well with me, but fried and raw insect larvae
are no problem. I think most of us enjoy large, spiny, under-water bugs,
boiled and dipped in melted butter! What strange creatures we humans are!

On 2009-08-17, MtnTraveler > wrote:

> boiled and dipped in melted butter! What strange creatures we humans are!

Not too amazing when you consider starving as an alternative.

nb

Arri London wrote:

>> One ingredient that most Westerners seem to avoid when making kimchee is
>> some sort of smelly fermented fish added into the recipe. If you have an
>> Asian market near you, look for Japanese 'shiokara,' and add 1-2 TBS to
>> your recipe. (It's often sold in small bottles and has a very strong
>> smell!) In Korea people store their kimchee in large pots OUTSIDE their
>> homes; on roofs, back stairs, etc., as the smell is too strong to keep
>> them inside. This might be what is missing from your recipe. Many
>> westernized recipes tone this down by using dried shrimp which gives a
>> very different flavor.
>
>
> That's why the recipe stated 'fermented shrimp' or dried shrimp. Other
> recipes I've seen use other fermented fish products. The kimchi in jars
> sold locally doesn't contain those things though.

I don't think dried shrimp won't give it the fermented flavor that
fermented shrimp would. There are several good fermented seafood pastes;
from Malaysia belacan or petis udang, Indonesian trasi, the Cambodian
prahok, Thai gkabi (kapi,) etc., but for people without access to these,
raw oysters would work fine. I keep dried shrimp on hand for Chinese
dishes and as treats to feed my cat!

A lot of 'commercially made kimchee,' made OUTSIDE of Korea, uses acetic
acid to give it the 'fermented' bite of naturally-made kimchee. In fact,
about 10 years ago the Korean food producer's association was up in
arms trying to block other countries kimchee made with acetic from even
being called "Kimchee!"

In Korea, the end of October/beginning of November is the traditional
time for making kimchee, and it's a neighborhood event. You can see
gigantic piles of cabbages on sale in the street markets, and people
purchasing 5-10 cabbages at a time to go along with a dozen large Daikon
and other vegetables in preparation for kimchee making. The smell in the
air is almost overpowering! If you like Korean food, it's wonderful!

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:58:39 -0600, Arri London wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:31:09 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:58:08 -0600, Arri London wrote:
>>>
>>>> Try this one:
>>>>
>>>> Kimchi (From 'Korean Home Cooking') paraphrased
>>>>
>>>> 1 napa cabbage
>>>> 2 c kosher or sea salt
>>>> 2 c water or beef stock
>>>> 3 oz daikon/white radish/mooli
>>>> 3 oz spring/salad onions
>>>> 4 oz Asian pear/nashi
>>>> 1 whole bulb garlic
>>>> 1 small piece fresh ginger, peeled
>>>> 1/2 c fermented or dried shrimp
>>>> large pinch of shredded red chile (like Thai chile)
>>>> 2 tbs sugar
>>>> water
>>>
>>> I have never seen a recipe that calls for beef stock in the brine.
>>> How odd.
>>>
>>> -sw
>>
>> me either.
>>
>> maybe if made from bouillon cubes or the like, but otherwise i'd be leery
>> of keeping it unrefrigerated for a few days if there is any fat in it.
>>
>> but then, adding raw oysters would scare me too, so who knows?
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> The fermentation would destroy any harmful bacteria. That's the point of
> fermentation. The desired bacteria (various lactobacilli in this case)
> outcompete and create an 'unpleasant' environment for any other
> microorganism.
>
> As stated above, the recipe comes from a Korean cook.

well, i can't argue with success in any case.

your pal,
blake

MtnTraveler wrote:
>
> Arri London wrote:
>
> >> One ingredient that most Westerners seem to avoid when making kimchee is
> >> some sort of smelly fermented fish added into the recipe. If you have an
> >> Asian market near you, look for Japanese 'shiokara,' and add 1-2 TBS to
> >> your recipe. (It's often sold in small bottles and has a very strong
> >> smell!) In Korea people store their kimchee in large pots OUTSIDE their
> >> homes; on roofs, back stairs, etc., as the smell is too strong to keep
> >> them inside. This might be what is missing from your recipe. Many
> >> westernized recipes tone this down by using dried shrimp which gives a
> >> very different flavor.
> >
> >
> > That's why the recipe stated 'fermented shrimp' or dried shrimp. Other
> > recipes I've seen use other fermented fish products. The kimchi in jars
> > sold locally doesn't contain those things though.
>
> I don't think dried shrimp won't give it the fermented flavor that
> fermented shrimp would.

No of course it wouldn't. But Westerners might be more inclined to try
the dried shrimp route in preference to the fermented shrimp paste or
raw oysters.

>There are several good fermented seafood pastes;
> from Malaysia belacan or petis udang, Indonesian trasi, the Cambodian
> prahok, Thai gkabi (kapi,) etc., but for people without access to these,
> raw oysters would work fine. I keep dried shrimp on hand for Chinese
> dishes and as treats to feed my cat!

Our cats won't touch the dried shrimp I keep on hand. Used to use
blachan/trassi but the Maternal Unit doesn't like the smell

>
> A lot of 'commercially made kimchee,' made OUTSIDE of Korea, uses acetic
> acid to give it the 'fermented' bite of naturally-made kimchee. In fact,
> about 10 years ago the Korean food producer's association was up in
> arms trying to block other countries kimchee made with acetic from even
> being called "Kimchee!"

Fair enough. But the places I've eaten used the real thing. The
'fizziness' on the tongue is the giveaway. Acetic acid can never give
that fermented bite.


>
> In Korea, the end of October/beginning of November is the traditional
> time for making kimchee, and it's a neighborhood event. You can see
> gigantic piles of cabbages on sale in the street markets, and people
> purchasing 5-10 cabbages at a time to go along with a dozen large Daikon
> and other vegetables in preparation for kimchee making. The smell in the
> air is almost overpowering! If you like Korean food, it's wonderful!

Would love to go and see for myself. Used to eat in a tiny Korean
restaurant in London that made some of their own kimchi. Once they found
out that the roundeye (me) loved it, got a nice selection for free in
addition to what was standard with the meal.

blake murphy wrote:
>
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:58:39 -0600, Arri London wrote:
>
> > blake murphy wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:31:09 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:58:08 -0600, Arri London wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Try this one:
> >>>>
> >>>> Kimchi (From 'Korean Home Cooking') paraphrased
> >>>>
> >>>> 1 napa cabbage
> >>>> 2 c kosher or sea salt
> >>>> 2 c water or beef stock
> >>>> 3 oz daikon/white radish/mooli
> >>>> 3 oz spring/salad onions
> >>>> 4 oz Asian pear/nashi
> >>>> 1 whole bulb garlic
> >>>> 1 small piece fresh ginger, peeled
> >>>> 1/2 c fermented or dried shrimp
> >>>> large pinch of shredded red chile (like Thai chile)
> >>>> 2 tbs sugar
> >>>> water
> >>>
> >>> I have never seen a recipe that calls for beef stock in the brine.
> >>> How odd.
> >>>
> >>> -sw
> >>
> >> me either.
> >>
> >> maybe if made from bouillon cubes or the like, but otherwise i'd be leery
> >> of keeping it unrefrigerated for a few days if there is any fat in it.
> >>
> >> but then, adding raw oysters would scare me too, so who knows?
> >>
> >> your pal,
> >> blake
> >
> > The fermentation would destroy any harmful bacteria. That's the point of
> > fermentation. The desired bacteria (various lactobacilli in this case)
> > outcompete and create an 'unpleasant' environment for any other
> > microorganism.
> >
> > As stated above, the recipe comes from a Korean cook.
>
> well, i can't argue with success in any case.
>
> your pal,
> blake


LOL. An unopened carton of yoghurt never spoils.

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:29:24 -0600, Arri London wrote:

>
> Would love to go and see for myself. Used to eat in a tiny Korean
> restaurant in London that made some of their own kimchi. Once they found
> out that the roundeye (me) loved it, got a nice selection for free in
> addition to what was standard with the meal.

more white privilege! oops, wrong thread.

your pal,
blake

> On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:29:24 -0600, Arri London wrote:
>
>> Would love to go and see for myself. Used to eat in a tiny Korean
>> restaurant in London that made some of their own kimchi. Once they found
>> out that the roundeye (me) loved it, got a nice selection for free in
>> addition to what was standard with the meal.


I think you might find that "Roundeye" would be strictly a Hollywood
movie expression. Asians call Westerners 'Big Nose.'

On 2009-08-18, MtnTraveler > wrote:

> I think you might find that "Roundeye" would be strictly a Hollywood
> movie expression. Asians call Westerners 'Big Nose.'

Heh...

Why? Big "something else" a bit too close to home?

nb

MtnTraveler wrote:

> I think you might find that "Roundeye" would be strictly a Hollywood movie
> expression. Asians call Westerners 'Big Nose.'

"Roundeye" is a common expression in the Philippines and Thailand. I've
heard it a couple times in Korea as well. I've heard "Big Nose" from
Chinese, Vietnamese, and Japanese.

So it seems to vary from country to country.

Bob

Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> MtnTraveler wrote:
>
>> I think you might find that "Roundeye" would be strictly a Hollywood movie
>> expression. Asians call Westerners 'Big Nose.'

> "Roundeye" is a common expression in the Philippines and Thailand.

I wonder if they got it from the American G.I.s stationed there? The
term doesn't exist in Tagalog or Passa Thai. Perhaps Americanization of
the local languages?

> I've heard "Big Nose" from
> Chinese, Vietnamese, and Japanese.
>
> So it seems to vary from country to country.

Why not? ) Everything else seems to!

blake murphy wrote:
>
> On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:29:24 -0600, Arri London wrote:
>
> >
> > Would love to go and see for myself. Used to eat in a tiny Korean
> > restaurant in London that made some of their own kimchi. Once they found
> > out that the roundeye (me) loved it, got a nice selection for free in
> > addition to what was standard with the meal.
>
> more white privilege! oops, wrong thread.
>
> your pal,
> blake

LOL.

NO No no! I always get well-fed by people when know their food is
appreciated. It's food they eat themselves as opposed to being
dumbed-down for the 'forners'. Best of all worlds!

MtnTraveler wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:29:24 -0600, Arri London wrote:
> >
> >> Would love to go and see for myself. Used to eat in a tiny Korean
> >> restaurant in London that made some of their own kimchi. Once they found
> >> out that the roundeye (me) loved it, got a nice selection for free in
> >> addition to what was standard with the meal.
>
> I think you might find that "Roundeye" would be strictly a Hollywood
> movie expression. Asians call Westerners 'Big Nose.'


Not all. Roundeye occurs too.

MtnTraveler wrote:
>
> Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> > MtnTraveler wrote:
> >
> >> I think you might find that "Roundeye" would be strictly a Hollywood movie
> >> expression. Asians call Westerners 'Big Nose.'
>
> > "Roundeye" is a common expression in the Philippines and Thailand.
>
> I wonder if they got it from the American G.I.s stationed there? The
> term doesn't exist in Tagalog or Passa Thai. Perhaps Americanization of
> the local languages?

Just an accurate description of 'perceived' facial appearance. When a
Hong Kong Chinese lab boss of mine wanted to order personalised lab
coats for all of us, she didn't ask what size everyone wore. The Asian
members of the lab got coats nearly their size. We Westerners were given
coats typically about three sizes too large! Given that I was shorter
and slimmer than my boss (and fit into her lab coat), it clearly was a
matter of perception.

>
> > I've heard "Big Nose" from
> > Chinese, Vietnamese, and Japanese.
> >
> > So it seems to vary from country to country.
>
> Why not? ) Everything else seems to!

Exactly.

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:23:30 -0600, Arri London wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:29:24 -0600, Arri London wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Would love to go and see for myself. Used to eat in a tiny Korean
>>> restaurant in London that made some of their own kimchi. Once they found
>>> out that the roundeye (me) loved it, got a nice selection for free in
>>> addition to what was standard with the meal.
>>
>> more white privilege! oops, wrong thread.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> LOL.
>
> NO No no! I always get well-fed by people when know their food is
> appreciated. It's food they eat themselves as opposed to being
> dumbed-down for the 'forners'. Best of all worlds!

just yankin' your cabbage, arri. i'll bet you do get some good chow there.
every cook likes a knowledgeable eater.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:30:07 -0600, Arri London wrote:

> MtnTraveler wrote:
>>
>> Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>>> MtnTraveler wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think you might find that "Roundeye" would be strictly a Hollywood movie
>>>> expression. Asians call Westerners 'Big Nose.'
>>
>>> "Roundeye" is a common expression in the Philippines and Thailand.
>>
>> I wonder if they got it from the American G.I.s stationed there? The
>> term doesn't exist in Tagalog or Passa Thai. Perhaps Americanization of
>> the local languages?
>
> Just an accurate description of 'perceived' facial appearance. When a
> Hong Kong Chinese lab boss of mine wanted to order personalised lab
> coats for all of us, she didn't ask what size everyone wore. The Asian
> members of the lab got coats nearly their size. We Westerners were given
> coats typically about three sizes too large! Given that I was shorter
> and slimmer than my boss (and fit into her lab coat), it clearly was a
> matter of perception.
>
>>
>> > I've heard "Big Nose" from
>>> Chinese, Vietnamese, and Japanese.
>>>
>>> So it seems to vary from country to country.
>>
>> Why not? ) Everything else seems to!
>
> Exactly.

what's funny is when white people seem surprised: 'what? *they* have
names for *us*?'

your pal,
blake