Is the bread supposed to be soggy when the salad is served? Samantha
Demidavicius made this at the Calgary Cook-In in 2001 and it was
wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. I'm thinking I'll bring it to a
meeting on Monday night.

The bread I'm intending to use has a dense crumb.

Panzanella **Bread Salad with Tomatoes, Onions, and Olives

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Recipe By: Charlotte Blackmer, r.f.c. 7-5-1998

2 Tablespoons red wine vinegar
Juice of 1 lemon
1 teaspoon Dijon mustard
2 cloves garlic minced or pressed
2/3 cup olive oil (extra-virgin recommended)
Salt and freshly ground pepper
4 cups day-old Italian or country bread in 1" cubes
2 cups tomatoes (chopped or cherry) (2 to 2 1/2)
1 small red onion (diced)
3 Tablespoons Italian parsley (minced)
1/2 cup kalamata olives pitted and sliced
Salad greens for serving

(note from CLB: *I tend to use more mustard and more olives because I
like them a lot - I rarely bother to pit and slice the olives)

Make the dressing by combining the mustard, vinegar, lemon juice, and
garlic in a bowl. *Whisk the olive oil in. *Add salt and pepper; *add
a little more mustard or vinegar if you want it a little sharper.
Put the bread cubes in a large mixing bowl and pour the dressing over
them. *Toss to coat evenly. *Let sit for 30 minutes or so.

(Note from CLB: if you are using diced tomatoes, you might want to
keep back a couple of tablespoons of the dressing and add the tomatoes
shortly after you add the salad dressing to the bread bits. *They exude
delicious juice and moisten the bread.)

To serve, add the tomatoes, onions, olives, and parsley to the bread
cubes. Serves 4 (doubles and triples nicely) and toss. *Serve on salad
greens.
Variation: *Roasted red bell peppers, diced.
Variation: *Fry four slices of bacon. *Use 2 Tablespoons bacon fat and
enough olive oil to make 2/3 cup. *Crumble the bacon in the salad.

Source: Charlotte Blackmer, r.f.c. post 7-5-1998 who got it from
Michele Anna Jordan, Kitchen Garden magazine







--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1

"Melba's Jammin'" ha scritto nel messaggio

> Is the bread supposed to be soggy when the salad is served?

Depends on what you think that means. The bread is meant to be stale. It
is meant to be soaked in cold water and then pressed out and crumbled with
the fingers.

Do not faff about toasting croutons and tossing them with the ingredients or
making careful cubes. I don't know what that is, but it is not panzanella.
This recipe is wrong. Tuscan and Umbrian peasants have been making it for
200 years and American demo chefs need to leave it alone.

In article >,
Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>Is the bread supposed to be soggy when the salad is served? Samantha
>Demidavicius made this at the Calgary Cook-In in 2001 and it was
>wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. I'm thinking I'll bring it to a
>meeting on Monday night.
>
>The bread I'm intending to use has a dense crumb.

Hey! My name in lights!

It's supposed to be moistened, not soggy. It does get a bit soggy if it's
held.

With nice juicy summer tomatoes I'd start with only a small bit of the
dressing (quarter to half). Toss after about half an hour and see how
it's doing - add more if you need to. The bread I usually use has a
fairly dense crumb as well.

The leftover dressing is great on other salads (try it on blanched green
beans).

>Panzanella **Bread Salad with Tomatoes, Onions, and Olives
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Recipe By: Charlotte Blackmer, r.f.c. 7-5-1998
>
>2 Tablespoons red wine vinegar
>Juice of 1 lemon
>1 teaspoon Dijon mustard
>2 cloves garlic minced or pressed
>2/3 cup olive oil (extra-virgin recommended)
>Salt and freshly ground pepper
>4 cups day-old Italian or country bread in 1" cubes
>2 cups tomatoes (chopped or cherry) (2 to 2 1/2)
>1 small red onion (diced)
>3 Tablespoons Italian parsley (minced)
>1/2 cup kalamata olives pitted and sliced
>Salad greens for serving
>
>(note from CLB: *I tend to use more mustard and more olives because I
>like them a lot - I rarely bother to pit and slice the olives)
>
>Make the dressing by combining the mustard, vinegar, lemon juice, and
>garlic in a bowl. *Whisk the olive oil in. *Add salt and pepper; *add
>a little more mustard or vinegar if you want it a little sharper.
>Put the bread cubes in a large mixing bowl and pour the dressing over
>them. *Toss to coat evenly. *Let sit for 30 minutes or so.
>
>(Note from CLB: if you are using diced tomatoes, you might want to
>keep back a couple of tablespoons of the dressing and add the tomatoes
>shortly after you add the salad dressing to the bread bits. *They exude
>delicious juice and moisten the bread.)
>
>To serve, add the tomatoes, onions, olives, and parsley to the bread
>cubes. Serves 4 (doubles and triples nicely) and toss. *Serve on salad
>greens.
>Variation: *Roasted red bell peppers, diced.
>Variation: *Fry four slices of bacon. *Use 2 Tablespoons bacon fat and
>enough olive oil to make 2/3 cup. *Crumble the bacon in the salad.
>
>Source: Charlotte Blackmer, r.f.c. post 7-5-1998 who got it from
>Michele Anna Jordan, Kitchen Garden magazine

--

Giusi wrote:
> "Melba's Jammin'" ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>> Is the bread supposed to be soggy when the salad is served?
>
> Depends on what you think that means. The bread is meant to be stale. It
> is meant to be soaked in cold water and then pressed out and crumbled with
> the fingers.
>
> Do not faff about toasting croutons and tossing them with the ingredients or
> making careful cubes. I don't know what that is, but it is not panzanella.
> This recipe is wrong. Tuscan and Umbrian peasants have been making it for
> 200 years and American demo chefs need to leave it alone.
>
>
It may be wrong but it sure is tasty! Giusi, can you post a recipe that
you (and/or Tuscan/Umbrian peasants) consider correct? It's a sincere
question, no obligatory RFC snottiness included! ;-)

TammyM

In article >,
"Giusi" > wrote:

> "Melba's Jammin'" ha scritto nel messaggio
>
> > Is the bread supposed to be soggy when the salad is served?
>
> Depends on what you think that means. The bread is meant to be stale.

Define stale for me, Judith. Day old (baked yesterday) or dried out and
crisp?

> It is meant to be soaked in cold water and then pressed out

Wrung out in a towel or squeezed in the hands?

> and crumbled with the fingers.
>

> Do not faff

I don't know what faff means.

> about toasting croutons

Didn't plan to do that.

> and tossing them with the ingredients or
> making careful cubes.

I did cut cubes. They are sitting out in an uncovered bowl.

> I don't know what that is, but it is not panzanella.

"Well, fine, then, Babi!! You can't share wif me!" said LaTwerp when
she was 3-1/2 and I offended her sensibilities by eating some of her
orange without her express permission first.


> This recipe is wrong. Tuscan and Umbrian peasants have been making it for
> 200 years and American demo chefs need to leave it alone.

Okay. How about if I say it's Faux Panzanella. How do I say "Fake
Panzanella" or "*******ized Panzanella" or "Panzanella Wannabe" and what
do I say when I announce it as a bread salad and someone says, "Oh, sure
‹ panzanella"? IMWTK.

I don't know what an American demo chef is, either.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1

In article >,
(Charlotte L. Blackmer) wrote:

> In article >,
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> >Is the bread supposed to be soggy when the salad is served? Samantha
> >Demidavicius made this at the Calgary Cook-In in 2001 and it was
> >wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. I'm thinking I'll bring it to a
> >meeting on Monday night.
> >
> >The bread I'm intending to use has a dense crumb.
>
> Hey! My name in lights!
>
> It's supposed to be moistened, not soggy. It does get a bit soggy if it's
> held.
>
> With nice juicy summer tomatoes I'd start with only a small bit of the
> dressing (quarter to half).

Great. Thanks.

> Toss after about half an hour and see how it's doing - add more if
> you need to. The bread I usually use has a fairly dense crumb as
> well.

>
> The leftover dressing is great on other salads (try it on blanched green
> beans).

I will! I bought more green beans this morning. Farmer had a second
planting that's just being picked for the first time. Nice. Young and
not overdeveloped and tough. I made another batch of green bean soup
yesterday with the end of last week's buy.

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >,
> "Giusi" > wrote:
>
>> "Melba's Jammin'" ha scritto nel messaggio
>>
>>> Is the bread supposed to be soggy when the salad is served?
>>
>> Depends on what you think that means. The bread is meant to be stale.
>
> Define stale for me, Judith. Day old (baked yesterday) or dried out and
> crisp?
>
At least 2 to 3 days old. Left in the open.
Can be older and totally dry, too.

>> It is meant to be soaked in cold water and then pressed out
>
> Wrung out in a towel or squeezed in the hands?
>
Squeezed in the hands.

<snip>

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> Is the bread supposed to be soggy when the salad is served?

It is supposed to be moist. Slices of bread are soaked in water,
squeezed out, and crumbled/torn. Then they are are mixed with the other
ingredients, including the liquid (vinegar, oli, juice from the
tomatoes). You get the picture.

> The bread I'm intending to use has a dense crumb.

The bread used is supposed to be pane toscano - saltless, very coarse
bread. It is not so much dense (and often has holes) as it is coarse.
So, substitute accordingly.

> Panzanella **Bread Salad with Tomatoes, Onions, and Olives
[recipe snipped]

It is not panzanella. Panzanella is as simple as can be. I posted a
recipe ten days ago and most recipes are like that; some add cucumbers.

> Michele Anna Jordan, Kitchen Garden magazine

She ought to be flogged publicly in that kitchen garden.

Victor

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >,
> "Giusi" > wrote:
>


>
>
>> This recipe is wrong. Tuscan and Umbrian peasants have been making it for
>> 200 years and American demo chefs need to leave it alone.
>



Jesuscristonabicycle that attitude ****es me off. "If it's not exactly
like MY grandmother made it, it's WRONG." Sorry, Giusi, but:

If peasants made it, you can bet your bippy they used whatever they had
on hand and it was different every time they made it.

I know it's not panzanella, but I make it the way we like it (when I can
remember):

cubed stale French or Italian bread
chopped fresh tomatoes
minced parsley and basil
olive oil
minced or grated garlic
finely chopped green onion or sweet brown onion
a splash of balsamic vinegar
sea salt and ground pepper

and if I think of it and am in the mood, I put small cubes of cheese
(fresh mozz is nice) in it at the last minute. Kalamata or Nicoise
olives are a nice side, too.

So sue me.

gloria p

In article >,
Victor Sack > wrote:
>Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
>> Is the bread supposed to be soggy when the salad is served?
>
>It is supposed to be moist. Slices of bread are soaked in water,
>squeezed out, and crumbled/torn. Then they are are mixed with the other
>ingredients, including the liquid (vinegar, oli, juice from the
>tomatoes). You get the picture.
>
>> The bread I'm intending to use has a dense crumb.
>
>The bread used is supposed to be pane toscano - saltless, very coarse
>bread. It is not so much dense (and often has holes) as it is coarse.
>So, substitute accordingly.
>
>> Panzanella **Bread Salad with Tomatoes, Onions, and Olives
>[recipe snipped]
>
>It is not panzanella. Panzanella is as simple as can be. I posted a
>recipe ten days ago and most recipes are like that; some add cucumbers.
>
>> Michele Anna Jordan, Kitchen Garden magazine
>
>She ought to be flogged publicly in that kitchen garden.

What?!

Who the hell peed in your oatmeal, Victor? That's way the hell over the top.

Call it bread salad if you prefer. I usually do. But don't knock it
until you've tried it. It's really incredibly tasty.

Thanks for the reminder, Barb. I have some zapaton that is a few days old
and could benefit from the treatment. I'll save a slice for the last of
the gazpacho.

Charlotte


--

In article >,
(Victor Sack) wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
> > Is the bread supposed to be soggy when the salad is served?
>
> It is supposed to be moist. Slices of bread are soaked in water,
> squeezed out, and crumbled/torn. Then they are are mixed with the other
> ingredients, including the liquid (vinegar, oli, juice from the
> tomatoes). You get the picture.
>
> > The bread I'm intending to use has a dense crumb.
>
> The bread used is supposed to be pane toscano - saltless, very coarse
> bread. It is not so much dense (and often has holes) as it is coarse.
> So, substitute accordingly.

Good. I'll use what I buy at Brianno's. Dense and coarse. No pane
toscano. I've eaten it and don't care for it, thanks.


>
> > Panzanella **Bread Salad with Tomatoes, Onions, and Olives
> [recipe snipped]
>
> It is not panzanella.

Apparently not.


> Panzanella is as simple as can be.

Okay.

> I posted a
> recipe ten days ago and most recipes are like that; some add cucumbers.

Okay, I'll add cucumbers to mine. I have those in my garden. Woo-woo.

> > Michele Anna Jordan, Kitchen Garden magazine
>
> She ought to be flogged publicly in that kitchen garden.
>
> Victor

Now, now, Bubba Wictor. Be nice.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1

In article >,
"Michael Kuettner" > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> >
> At least 2 to 3 days old. Left in the open.
> Can be older and totally dry, too.

> > Wrung out in a towel or squeezed in the hands?
> >
> Squeezed in the hands.
>
> <snip>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Michael Kuettner

Hmmm. Thank you, Michael. I'll see how my cubes are on Monday morning.
If it's nice, I'll put them outside to air dry. :-)
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1

In article >,
Gloria P > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "Giusi" > wrote:
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> >> This recipe is wrong. Tuscan and Umbrian peasants have been making it for
> >> 200 years and American demo chefs need to leave it alone.
> >
>
>
>
> Jesuscristonabicycle that attitude ****es me off. "If it's not exactly
> like MY grandmother made it, it's WRONG." Sorry, Giusi, but:
>
> If peasants made it, you can bet your bippy they used whatever they had
> on hand and it was different every time they made it.
>
> I know it's not panzanella, but I make it the way we like it (when I can
> remember):
>
> cubed stale French or Italian bread
> chopped fresh tomatoes
> minced parsley and basil
> olive oil
> minced or grated garlic
> finely chopped green onion or sweet brown onion
> a splash of balsamic vinegar
> sea salt and ground pepper
>
> and if I think of it and am in the mood, I put small cubes of cheese
> (fresh mozz is nice) in it at the last minute. Kalamata or Nicoise
> olives are a nice side, too.
>
> So sue me.
>
> gloria p

I would never sue you. You're a nice lady. Kind-hearted and generous.
Will you bring me some more kiwi habanero sauce? :-) Mine's going to
look a lot like what you make minus the cheese and plus Bubba Wictor's
cucumber and plus your olives.


--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1

Charlotte L. Blackmer > wrote:

> Who the hell peed in your oatmeal, Victor? That's way the hell over the top.
>
> Call it bread salad if you prefer. I usually do. But don't knock it
> until you've tried it. It's really incredibly tasty.

I do not think you get it. There is nothing wrong with the recipe per
se - it is just not panzanella. In this context, everything about the
recipe is wrong... ridiculous even, from the concept to the execution.
Giusi is perfectly correct in her assessment. If "panzanella" is to be
included in the name of the recipe, it ought to be "Panzanella
all'Alfredo."

Victor

Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> Good. I'll use what I buy at Brianno's. Dense and coarse.

Sometimes the bread is not even torn after soaking and squeezing-out -
it will be falling apart in any case.

> Okay, I'll add cucumbers to mine. I have those in my garden. Woo-woo.

Basil is often added, too.

> > > Michele Anna Jordan, Kitchen Garden magazine
> >
> > She ought to be flogged publicly in that kitchen garden.
>
> Now, now, Bubba Wictor. Be nice.

Nice? I was more than nice! Actually, capital punishment is too kind
for her!

Bubba Wictor

In article >,
(Victor Sack) wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
> > Good. I'll use what I buy at Brianno's. Dense and coarse.
>
> Sometimes the bread is not even torn after soaking and squeezing-out -
> it will be falling apart in any case.
>
> > Okay, I'll add cucumbers to mine. I have those in my garden. Woo-woo.
>
> Basil is often added, too.

Okay, I have that, too.

>
> > > > Michele Anna Jordan, Kitchen Garden magazine
> > >
> > > She ought to be flogged publicly in that kitchen garden.
> >
> > Now, now, Bubba Wictor. Be nice.
>
> Nice? I was more than nice! Actually, capital punishment is too kind
> for her!
>
> Bubba Wictor

Now, now. A nice BM (either kind "-) will make you feel better.
By the by, I'm not squeezing my bread cubes. I'm doing Charlotte's
recipe. Ppfftthhgggbbttt!

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1

Melba's Jammin' > wrote in
on Aug Sat 2009
pm

> In article >,
> (Victor Sack) wrote:
>
>> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>>
>> > Good. I'll use what I buy at Brianno's. Dense and coarse.
>>
>> Sometimes the bread is not even torn after soaking and squeezing-out
>> - it will be falling apart in any case.
>>
>> > Okay, I'll add cucumbers to mine. I have those in my garden.
>> > Woo-woo.
>>
>> Basil is often added, too.
>
> Okay, I have that, too.
>
>>
>> > > > Michele Anna Jordan, Kitchen Garden magazine
>> > >
>> > > She ought to be flogged publicly in that kitchen garden.
>> >
>> > Now, now, Bubba Wictor. Be nice.
>>
>> Nice? I was more than nice! Actually, capital punishment is too
>> kind for her!
>>
>> Bubba Wictor
>
> Now, now. A nice BM (either kind "-) will make you feel better.
> By the by, I'm not squeezing my bread cubes. I'm doing Charlotte's
> recipe. Ppfftthhgggbbttt!
>

If you go around squeezing bread cubes all willy nilly...won't that make the salad less visibly
attractive with all those unappealing shapes of squozen lumps of dampish bread; plus making a
gnarly mess on your hands?

I vote no to the squeezing of bread!

Arise all you bread cubes... all you have to lose is your sogginess!!

--
Is that your nose, or are you eatting a banana? -Alan

"TammyM" ha scritto nel messaggio

> It may be wrong but it sure is tasty! Giusi, can you post a recipe that >
> you (and/or Tuscan/Umbrian peasants) consider correct? It's a sincere >
> question, no obligatory RFC snottiness included! ;-)
>
> TammyM

There is no fixed list of vegetables because it is meant to use up stale
bread while using whatever is coming in from the garden. The only prep rule
is that things are cut small so they marinate quickly. It doesn't look
elegant, but it tastes damned good.

The following is copied and pasted from my blog, Think On It. The photo is
at:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1259/...94529c1d_m.jpg
To make panzanella you need coarse white bread. There are many available
here in Italy, and in the USA I used semolina bread from Whole Foods. I'm
sure there are others, but this is the one I remember. The bread should be a
day old, as it is a way to use leftovers. For six people I use 4 to 6 thick
slices of 4? X 7? approximate dimension. Bread obtained, put the slices into
a bowl and pour cold water over them and leave them to soak it up.

You can put all kinds of things in it, but I like these, all diced to a
similar size:
2 large ripe tomatoes or 8 oz of cherry tomatoes or whatever is good in your
area
2 mild onions
2 legs of celery
2 cucumbers I peel strips off to leave some of the green
1 sweet red pepper or capsicum

Some like shredded carrots, but not me. Sometimes I use a few coarsely
chopped capers.

You will also need fresh lemon juice and some cider or wine vinegar as well
as a bunch of hand torn basil leaves. Great olive oil comes next. Salt and
pepper at the end.

One by one, take the bread slices out and squeeze the water out back into
the bowl, and then into a big salad bowl, use your hands to crumble the
softened bread. Add the diced vegetables and toss it all together. Drizzle
with some of the lemon juice and then a couple of spoonfuls of vinegar.
Drizzle generously with the oil. Toss around, sprinkle with some salt, mix,
taste. How is it? Does it sparkle with acid and is it balanced with salt and
oil? Then you're done! Chances are you have to add, taste and toss a few
times before it is Mmmmm! When it gets there, stop. This is a bright and
simple food and does not need to be pushed. If you add canned corn to it, I
will never speak to you again. Cheese cubes means immediate excommunication!
Tear the basil over it and toss it in at the last moment so it won't go
black. Grind pepper over the serving at the last moment to get all the
perfume pepper offers.

"Melba's Jammin'" scritto nel messaggio

>> She ought to be flogged publicly in that kitchen garden.
>>
>> Victor
>
> Now, now, Bubba Wictor. Be nice.

I think we are being very nice. We have not yet used one single dirty
word.... and I know some--- a few.

IF everybody flops over and lets anyone make anything they want and call it
by a traditional time-honored, in this case even venerated way, you will
cease to know what the real thing is. You will walk into a restaurant, see
it on the menu and it will be a crapshoot as to what you get.

This is a dish that lives in the grandest tradition of country folk in
Tuscany and Umbria. It's very flexible but does require stale coarse bread
soaked and squeezed and crumbled. It requires great summer vegetables and
great oil. It doesn't have a "dressing" but is dressed. Salad dressing
simply does not exist in this country.

It's OK to make dressed salads and stick bread cubes in them. I know it's
good, even. It isn't OK to call them panzanella.

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >,
> "Michael Kuettner" > wrote:
>
>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
>>>
>> At least 2 to 3 days old. Left in the open.
>> Can be older and totally dry, too.
>
>>> Wrung out in a towel or squeezed in the hands?
>>>
>> Squeezed in the hands.
>>
<snip>
> Hmmm. Thank you, Michael. I'll see how my cubes are on Monday morning.
> If it's nice, I'll put them outside to air dry. :-)

Let the rolls or bread go stale, before you cube it. That way you have
fewer crumbs.
And if you've some cubes left, you can prepare Semmelknoedeln (o umlaut).

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

In article >,
"Giusi" > wrote:

> "Melba's Jammin'" scritto nel messaggio
>
> >> She ought to be flogged publicly in that kitchen garden.
> >>
> >> Victor
> >
> > Now, now, Bubba Wictor. Be nice.
>
> I think we are being very nice. We have not yet used one single dirty
> word.... and I know some--- a few.

Okay. You cut the switch and Bubba Vic will do the flogging. A team
effort. "-)

> IF everybody flops over and lets anyone make anything they want and call it
> by a traditional time-honored, in this case even venerated way, you will
> cease to know what the real thing is. You will walk into a restaurant, see
> it on the menu and it will be a crapshoot as to what you get.

Yes, yes, I understand that.

> This is a dish that lives in the grandest tradition of country folk in
> Tuscany and Umbria. It's very flexible but does require stale coarse bread
> soaked and squeezed and crumbled. It requires great summer vegetables and
> great oil. It doesn't have a "dressing" but is dressed. Salad dressing
> simply does not exist in this country.

I like the concept. When Auggie Mezzenga made salad, he didn't dump
Eyetalian dressing on it, he dressed it with olive oil, basil, and some
vinegar. I can still hear Daughter Susan saying to anyone who tried
"Eyetalian" that it is ITaly, not EYEtaly and it's ITalian, not
EYEtalian. I do it myself.
>
> It's OK to make dressed salads and stick bread cubes in them. I know it's
> good, even. It isn't OK to call them panzanella.

I understand and will pray to Saint Vinaigrette for forgiveness. So how
do I say Fake Panzanella in Italian? Or is it just asking for more
trouble to include the P word at all?
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1

In article >,
"Giusi" > wrote:
> The following is copied and pasted from my blog, Think On It. The photo is
> at:
>
> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1259/...94529c1d_m.jpg

Thanks for the picture. It shows all of us what the bread is supposed
to look like.
--Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1

Barb wrote:

> how do I say Fake Panzanella in Italian? Or is it just asking for more
> trouble to include the P word at all?

I think if you called it "insalata con pane," the only person who would be
offended would be Sheldon.

Bob

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 07:04:35 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article >,
> "Giusi" > wrote:
>
>>
>> It's OK to make dressed salads and stick bread cubes in them. I know it's
>> good, even. It isn't OK to call them panzanella.
>
>I understand and will pray to Saint Vinaigrette for forgiveness. So how
>do I say Fake Panzanella in Italian? Or is it just asking for more
>trouble to include the P word at all?

Call it Barb's Bread Salad and be done with it.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:54:38 -0500, Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> In article >,
> "Giusi" > wrote:
>
>
>> It is meant to be soaked in cold water and then pressed out
>
> Wrung out in a towel or squeezed in the hands?
>
>> and crumbled with the fingers.
>>
>
>> Do not faff
>
> I don't know what faff means.
>
>> about toasting croutons

i don't know jacques about bread salad, but 'faff about' is english slang
for 'mess around with,' 'waste time doing,' 'dilly-dally', etc.

your pal,
blake

In article >,
"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote:

> Barb wrote:
>
> > how do I say Fake Panzanella in Italian? Or is it just asking for more
> > trouble to include the P word at all?
>
> I think if you called it "insalata con pane," the only person who would be
> offended would be Sheldon.
>
> Bob

Thanks, Bob. I like that.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:
> i don't know jacques about bread salad, but 'faff about' is english slang
> for 'mess around with,' 'waste time doing,' 'dilly-dally', etc.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Got it. Thank you.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1

In article >,
"Michael Kuettner" > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> > Hmmm. Thank you, Michael. I'll see how my cubes are on Monday morning.
> > If it's nice, I'll put them outside to air dry. :-)
>
> Let the rolls or bread go stale, before you cube it.

Too late. I cubed the bread yesterday.

> That way you have fewer crumbs. And if you've some cubes left, you
> can prepare Semmelknoedeln (o umlaut).
> Michael Kuettner


In my dreams, Michael. If I have cubes left, I'll oven-dry them and
make bread crumbs. :-)
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:55:29 +0200, Victor Sack wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
>> Good. I'll use what I buy at Brianno's. Dense and coarse.
>
> Sometimes the bread is not even torn after soaking and squeezing-out -
> it will be falling apart in any case.
>
>> Okay, I'll add cucumbers to mine. I have those in my garden. Woo-woo.
>
> Basil is often added, too.
>
>>> > Michele Anna Jordan, Kitchen Garden magazine
>>>
>>> She ought to be flogged publicly in that kitchen garden.
>>
>> Now, now, Bubba Wictor. Be nice.
>
> Nice? I was more than nice! Actually, capital punishment is too kind
> for her!
>
> Bubba Wictor

i think we missed you on the BLT thread.

your pal,
blake

In article >,
Victor Sack > wrote:
>Charlotte L. Blackmer > wrote:

[Victor wants to flog someone]

>> Who the hell peed in your oatmeal, Victor? That's way the hell over the top.
>>
>> Call it bread salad if you prefer. I usually do. But don't knock it
>> until you've tried it. It's really incredibly tasty.
>
>I do not think you get it.

Dammit, Victor, I understand your underlying point.

I think you're missing mine. I think you're being way over the top - and
not in the amusing way - in your delivery.

That's not the same as "not getting it". Unless you think that anything
less than perfect agreement is "not getting it", in which case I would
invite you most cordially to eat a bag of hot, salty, deep-fried dicks.

If the threats of violence part was meant as a part of the ongoing
Bubba-Vic-and-Baba-Barb show, just keep in mind that other people don't
have the same context with you. (IOW, know your audience.)

>There is nothing wrong with the recipe per se - it is just not
>panzanella.

I can respect that. I'm that way about certain things. "That sounds like
it's very tasty, but I wouldn't call it a margarita" is something I've
said more than once. (Some times I use "but it's not a margarita" when
I'm feeling more direct.)

If you'd said the above originally, I'd have far less to argue with you
about and I sure wouldn't have asked you who peed in your oatmeal. I
probably would have just smiled and gone to the next post.

>In this context, everything about the
>recipe is wrong... ridiculous even, from the concept to the execution.
>Giusi is perfectly correct in her assessment. If "panzanella" is to be
>included in the name of the recipe, it ought to be "Panzanella
>all'Alfredo."

Heh. That's a point in favor of my usage of "bread salad", to be sure.
"Panzanella" was parenthetical in the original recipe, as well.
Apparently a lot of other people in RFC prefer that term instead. Good
luck dealing with them and winning them to your way of thinking .

Charlotte

--

On Aug 15, 3:00*pm, (Victor Sack) wrote:
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> > Is the bread supposed to be soggy when the salad is served?
>
> It is supposed to be moist. *Slices of bread are soaked in water,
> squeezed out, and crumbled/torn. *Then they are are mixed with the other
> ingredients, including the liquid (vinegar, oli, juice from the
> tomatoes). *You get the picture.
>
> > The bread I'm intending to use has a dense crumb.
>
> The bread used is supposed to be pane toscano - saltless, very coarse
> bread. *It is not so much dense (and often has holes) as it is coarse.
> So, substitute accordingly.
>
> > Panzanella **Bread Salad with Tomatoes, Onions, and Olives
>
> [recipe snipped]
>
> It is not panzanella. *Panzanella is as simple as can be. *I posted a
> recipe ten days ago and most recipes are like that; some add cucumbers.
>
> > Michele Anna Jordan, Kitchen Garden magazine
>
> She ought to be flogged publicly in that kitchen garden.
>
> Victor

Oh for God's sake. It's stale bread with tomatoes and salad dressing.
Panzanella, bread salad, what the hell is the difference what you call
it?????
If you don't think it's an authentic recipe, don't make it, don't eat
it, but why go on and on about whether it's "authentic" or not? Who
really gives a damn?
There are people starving...

This is food borne from poverty. Who cares what's in it? As long as
the people who have to eat it enjoy what's in it, does it really
matter?

If some people want to call this "Panzanella", is it really any sweat
off your balls?

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:15:42 -0700 (PDT), none of your business
> wrote:

>Oh for God's sake. It's stale bread with tomatoes and salad dressing.
>Panzanella, bread salad, what the hell is the difference what you call
>it?????
>If you don't think it's an authentic recipe, don't make it, don't eat
>it, but why go on and on about whether it's "authentic" or not? Who
>really gives a damn?

Oh, my gawd - I agree with you! Are rivers running backwards? Have
Jupiter and Mars aligned? Is the sun going to going to come up
tomorrow?

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Charlotte L. Blackmer > wrote:

> Victor Sack > wrote:
> >
> >I do not think you get it.
>
> Dammit, Victor, I understand your underlying point.
>
> I think you're missing mine. I think you're being way over the top - and
> not in the amusing way - in your delivery.
>
> That's not the same as "not getting it". Unless you think that anything
> less than perfect agreement is "not getting it", in which case I would
> invite you most cordially to eat a bag of hot, salty, deep-fried dicks.
>
> If the threats of violence part was meant as a part of the ongoing
> Bubba-Vic-and-Baba-Barb show, just keep in mind that other people don't
> have the same context with you. (IOW, know your audience.)

Okay, you dug deep and tried hard - I appreciate it. Thanks! You get
it now!

Victor

"sf" ha scritto nel messaggio
> > wrote:
>
>>Oh for God's sake. It's stale bread with tomatoes and salad
>>dressing.>>Panzanella, bread salad, what the hell is the difference what
>>you call>>it?????
>>If you don't think it's an authentic recipe, don't make it, don't eat>>it,
>>but why go on and on about whether it's "authentic" or not? Who>>really
>>gives a damn?
>
> Oh, my gawd - I agree with you! Are rivers running backwards? Have>
> Jupiter and Mars aligned? Is the sun going to going to come up> tomorrow?

People who come to read and post here are supposed one thinks to be people
who do give a damn about food. They are also people who complain about what
has happened to food and food supplies.

How do you think that happened? It starts with not giving a s^^t if
something is real or not. If anybody can do anything and call it what they
will, it WILL show up in a box on the supermarket shelf. It will then be
filled with chemical crap and resemble the original in no particular and no
one will know any better. If that's the world you want, be my guest. Don't
expect me to go along with it.

Remember how tacos used to be? How many places can you find tacos like that
nowadays? Remember homemade biscuits like grandma made? Now I see hundreds
of recipes which start "1 can of Humongous Harry biscuits". I get invited
to suppers here and served rice salad, picked up from the Americans. It's
stuff from a jar mixed into cooked rice. Bleaugh.

The degradation of food in general disgusts me and I think it starts with
being blase about what's real.

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:59:20 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:

>Remember how tacos used to be? How many places can you find tacos like that
>nowadays?

Tacos? My first taco was at taco bell in the '60s. Tacos are a lot
better these days AFAIC.... but I don't eat them. I prefer burritos.

>Remember homemade biscuits like grandma made?

My grandmothers opened up cans. If they turned out scratch biscuits,
it wasn't anything special to remember.

>Now I see hundreds of recipes which start "1 can of Humongous Harry biscuits".

Which are not bad at all. They're probably better than what I'd make.

>I get invited to suppers here and served rice salad, picked up from the Americans. It's
>stuff from a jar mixed into cooked rice. Bleaugh.

I have no idea what a rice salad is.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

In article >,
Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> Is the bread supposed to be soggy when the salad is served? Samantha
> Demidavicius made this at the Calgary Cook-In in 2001 and it was
> wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. I'm thinking I'll bring it to a
> meeting on Monday night.

Damn! My meeting was cancelled two hours before it was to start.
Hostess' daughter is in an ER in NYC and that's where she's headed. I
have the salad ingredients all set to be combined, too. I think I'll
still make up a small (heh) portion for me. Rob can have that leftover
pork chop from last week.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1

On Aug 17, 1:59*am, "Giusi" > wrote:
> "sf" *ha scritto nel messaggio
>
> > > wrote:
>
> >>Oh for God's sake. It's stale bread with tomatoes and salad
> >>dressing.>>Panzanella, bread salad, what the hell is the difference what
> >>you call>>it?????
> >>If you don't think it's an authentic recipe, don't make it, don't eat>>it,
> >>but why go on and on about whether it's "authentic" or not? Who>>really
> >>gives a damn?
>
> > Oh, my gawd - I agree with you! *Are rivers running backwards? *Have>
> > Jupiter and Mars aligned? *Is the sun going to going to come up> tomorrow?
>
> People who come to read and post here are supposed one thinks to be people
> who do give a damn about food. *They are also people who complain about what
> has happened to food and food supplies.
>
> How do you think that happened? *It starts with not giving a s^^t if
> something is real or not. *If anybody can do anything and call it what they
> will, it WILL show up in a box on the supermarket shelf. *It will then be
> filled with chemical crap and resemble the original in no particular and no
> one will know any better. *If that's the world you want, be my guest. *Don't
> expect me to go along with it.
>
> Remember how tacos used to be? *How many places can you find tacos like that
> nowadays? *Remember homemade biscuits like grandma made? *Now I see hundreds
> of recipes which start "1 can of Humongous Harry biscuits". *I get invited
> to suppers here and served rice salad, picked up from the Americans. *It's
> stuff from a jar mixed into cooked rice. *Bleaugh.
>
> The degradation of food in general disgusts me and I think it starts with
> being blase about what's real.

but this isn't stuff from a jar.
This is good quality ingredients, mixed together to make a salad.
She didn't even use bottled salad dressing.

I'll agree with you that people need to care eating good food.
Cool whip mixed with lime jello is not key lime pie.
Biscuits from a can is not cooking. Elbow macaroni mixed with cream of
mushroom soup is not pasta alfredo.

What amazes me is that the two of you are carping over this recipe not
being "authentic", but no one has bothered to post an "authentic"
recipe.. So i guess we heathens are just going to have to eat the
"fake" stuff.

Bread, tomatoes, other veggies... home made salad dressing... seems
like real food to me.
But what do I know?

In article >,
Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>In article >,
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
>> Is the bread supposed to be soggy when the salad is served? Samantha
>> Demidavicius made this at the Calgary Cook-In in 2001 and it was
>> wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. I'm thinking I'll bring it to a
>> meeting on Monday night.
>
>Damn! My meeting was cancelled two hours before it was to start.
>Hostess' daughter is in an ER in NYC and that's where she's headed. I
>have the salad ingredients all set to be combined, too. I think I'll
>still make up a small (heh) portion for me. Rob can have that leftover
>pork chop from last week.

Good idea, Barb.

I had my tomato-garlic-basil-goat cheese pasta for a late lunch, so I'll
make some bread salad tomorrow. I only have enough stale bread for one
serving, but it's "gather ye tomatoes while ye may". Might add a cuke
because I have some.

I'm going to do a side by side test run of the viniagrette in the recipe
and Michael Ruhlman's from Ratio with Dijon and garlic added (to make it
an even test). I'm not going to use all that dressing, but it will keep
in the fridge.

Charlotte
--

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:09:49 -0700 (PDT), none of your business
> wrote:

>What amazes me is that the two of you are carping over this recipe not
>being "authentic", but no one has bothered to post an "authentic"
>recipe.. So i guess we heathens are just going to have to eat the
>"fake" stuff.

Fake stuff? It's common in your part of the world?

A bazillion years ago, I made it w/o ever having tasted the "real
thing". I followed the recipe to a T and it was absolutely awful. To
this day, I can not get past bread being the disgusting main
ingredient of something that called salad.

I do need to interject at this point - I've learned a lot from this
thread that I don't remember being part of the recipe I followed. In
the future, someone can serve it to me and I'll be open to the idea.
Although I do know some native Italians - bread salad has never been
on the menu when I was there. I need to ask one in particular (a
wowza of an Italian home-cook who spends 6 months of the year in
Italy) to make it sometime.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

In article >,
(Charlotte L. Blackmer) wrote:

> In article >,
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> >In article >,
> > Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> >
> >> Is the bread supposed to be soggy when the salad is served? Samantha
> >> Demidavicius made this at the Calgary Cook-In in 2001 and it was
> >> wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. I'm thinking I'll bring it to a
> >> meeting on Monday night.
> >
> >Damn! My meeting was cancelled two hours before it was to start.
> >Hostess' daughter is in an ER in NYC and that's where she's headed. I
> >have the salad ingredients all set to be combined, too. I think I'll
> >still make up a small (heh) portion for me. Rob can have that leftover
> >pork chop from last week.
>
> Good idea, Barb.
>
> I had my tomato-garlic-basil-goat cheese pasta for a late lunch, so I'll
> make some bread salad tomorrow. I only have enough stale bread for one
> serving, but it's "gather ye tomatoes while ye may". Might add a cuke
> because I have some.

I did include half a cuke and a handful of lightly cooked green beans,
cut into about 1" pieces. Dayam, Charlotte! It was very good. And
more will be good tomorrow, too. I'm thinking about soaking and
squeezing my bread cubes and attempting to make it look more like
Judith's. I never trust "sweet red onions" so I cut some up and
blanched and cooled them in case they were bitey. They were not.

My salad contained the cubed staled bread, cherry tomato halves, green
beans, cucumber, kalamata olives, chopped parsley (curly, sosumi), torn
basil, and the dressing.

> I'm going to do a side by side test run of the viniagrette in the recipe
> and Michael Ruhlman's from Ratio with Dijon and garlic added (to make it
> an even test). I'm not going to use all that dressing, but it will keep
> in the fridge.
>
> Charlotte
> --

I like the dressing. I almost followed the recipe, too! :-) I forgot
to pick up Dijon mustard but have some very nice Duesseldorf mustard in
house so I used that. No clue if the flavors are comparable.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1