Last night I worked on my presentation.
I had made a gravy out of the brazing liquid (Oxtails) by blending the
veggies with the gravy.
I poured a ladle-full on the plate and placed the meat on top. After a
few minutes, the gravy/sauce seperated with a watery edge.
What can be done to avoid this? Too much water in the gravy? it tasted
rich enough - Mike

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:18:14 -0400, Michael Horowitz > wrote:

-->Last night I worked on my presentation.
-->I had made a gravy out of the brazing liquid (Oxtails) by blending the
-->veggies with the gravy.
-->I poured a ladle-full on the plate and placed the meat on top. After a
-->few minutes, the gravy/sauce seperated with a watery edge.
-->What can be done to avoid this? Too much water in the gravy? it tasted
-->rich enough - Mike


Plate your meat first and then sauce it or warm your plate.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:18:14 -0400, Michael Horowitz
> wrote:

>Last night I worked on my presentation.
>I had made a gravy out of the brazing liquid (Oxtails) by blending the
>veggies with the gravy.
>I poured a ladle-full on the plate and placed the meat on top. After a
>few minutes, the gravy/sauce seperated with a watery edge.
>What can be done to avoid this? Too much water in the gravy? it tasted
>rich enough - Mike

Pureed veggies thicken very temporarilly... a starch thickener (corn
starch/wheat flour) is a more permanent thickener, and leaving the
veggies whole would make a better presentation.

In article >,
Michael Horowitz > wrote:

> Last night I worked on my presentation.
> I had made a gravy out of the brazing liquid (Oxtails) by blending the
> veggies with the gravy.
> I poured a ladle-full on the plate and placed the meat on top. After a
> few minutes, the gravy/sauce seperated with a watery edge.
> What can be done to avoid this? Too much water in the gravy? it tasted
> rich enough - Mike

When this happens to me, it usually means I didn't add enough thickener,
or I left too much fat in the liquid. Generally, for me, what separates
out is fat, not water.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Michael Horowitz wrote:
>
> I poured a ladle-full on the plate and placed the meat on top. After a
> few minutes, the gravy/sauce seperated with a watery edge.
> What can be done to avoid this? Too much water in the gravy? it tasted
> rich enough - Mike

I'd guess an emulsifier is what you need. Egg yolk
is a good emulsifier. It's the lecithin in egg yolk
which does it, so even though egg yolk is added raw
to make mayonnaise, it should not matter if it the
yolk gets cooked when added to the sauce because
lecithin is not degraded by cooking. If it works, you
shouldn't need much -- certainly not a whole yolk.

I suppose it should be possible to make mayonnaise
with cooked egg yolk, if one wanted to avoid raw egg.

"Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
...
> Last night I worked on my presentation.
> I had made a gravy out of the brazing liquid (Oxtails) by blending the
> veggies with the gravy.
> I poured a ladle-full on the plate and placed the meat on top. After a
> few minutes, the gravy/sauce seperated with a watery edge.
> What can be done to avoid this? Too much water in the gravy? it tasted
> rich enough - Mike

A tablespoon of corn starch and 2 tablespoons of warm water mixed together
till smooth then wisked into the sauce.

Paul

On Sep 26, 4:03*pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
> "Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Last night I worked on my presentation.
> > I had made a gravy out of the brazing liquid (Oxtails) by blending the
> > veggies with the gravy.
> > I poured a ladle-full on the plate and placed the meat on top. After a
> > few minutes, the gravy/sauce seperated with a watery edge.
> > What can be done to avoid this? Too much water in the gravy? it tasted
> > rich enough - Mike
>
> A tablespoon of corn starch and 2 tablespoons of warm water mixed together
> till smooth then wisked into the sauce.
>
> Paul

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Paul

Who mixes WARM water with cornstarch to make a slurry? ? ?
I thought COLD water was a religious obligation! ! ! !

Lynn in Fargo
(whose mother was wrong . . . on occasion!)

"Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig" > wrote:

>Who mixes WARM water with cornstarch to make a slurry? ? ?
>I thought COLD water was a religious obligation! ! ! !


I use cold.

"Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig" > wrote in message
...
On Sep 26, 4:03 pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
> "Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Last night I worked on my presentation.
> > I had made a gravy out of the brazing liquid (Oxtails) by blending the
> > veggies with the gravy.
> > I poured a ladle-full on the plate and placed the meat on top. After a
> > few minutes, the gravy/sauce seperated with a watery edge.
> > What can be done to avoid this? Too much water in the gravy? it tasted
> > rich enough - Mike
>
> A tablespoon of corn starch and 2 tablespoons of warm water mixed together
> till smooth then wisked into the sauce.
>
> Paul

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Paul

Who mixes WARM water with cornstarch to make a slurry? ? ?
I thought COLD water was a religious obligation! ! ! !

Lynn in Fargo
(whose mother was wrong . . . on occasion!)

Well for that matter why use water? The hot stock would be better.

Paul

In article
>,
Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig > wrote:

> On Sep 26, 4:03*pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
> > "Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
> >
> > ...
> >
> > > Last night I worked on my presentation.
> > > I had made a gravy out of the brazing liquid (Oxtails) by blending the
> > > veggies with the gravy.
> > > I poured a ladle-full on the plate and placed the meat on top. After a
> > > few minutes, the gravy/sauce seperated with a watery edge.
> > > What can be done to avoid this? Too much water in the gravy? it tasted
> > > rich enough - Mike
> >
> > A tablespoon of corn starch and 2 tablespoons of warm water mixed together
> > till smooth then wisked into the sauce.
> >
> > Paul
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Paul
>
> Who mixes WARM water with cornstarch to make a slurry? ? ?
> I thought COLD water was a religious obligation! ! ! !
>
> Lynn in Fargo
> (whose mother was wrong . . . on occasion!)

I always use cold. My mom taught me that too.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein


Subscribe:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:31:27 -0700 (PDT), Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig
> wrote:

>Who mixes WARM water with cornstarch to make a slurry? ? ?
>I thought COLD water was a religious obligation! ! ! !
>
Sometimes things matter. In this case, does it? Idunno. I use cold
too, but if I had warm in the tea kettle or I'd just finished running
the hot water tap, I don't think I'd make a special effort to make the
water cold.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:57:46 -0700, Paul M. Cook wrote:

> "Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Sep 26, 4:03 pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>> "Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> Last night I worked on my presentation.
>>> I had made a gravy out of the brazing liquid (Oxtails) by blending the
>>> veggies with the gravy.
>>> I poured a ladle-full on the plate and placed the meat on top. After a
>>> few minutes, the gravy/sauce seperated with a watery edge.
>>> What can be done to avoid this? Too much water in the gravy? it tasted
>>> rich enough - Mike
>>
>> A tablespoon of corn starch and 2 tablespoons of warm water mixed together
>> till smooth then wisked into the sauce.
>>
>> Paul
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Paul
>
> Who mixes WARM water with cornstarch to make a slurry? ? ?
> I thought COLD water was a religious obligation! ! ! !
>
> Lynn in Fargo
> (whose mother was wrong . . . on occasion!)
>
> Well for that matter why use water? The hot stock would be better.
>
> Paul

but i think the heat is what makes it start to thicken. you'd be jumping
the gun.

your pal,
blake

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> >
> > Who mixes WARM water with cornstarch to make a slurry? ? ?
> > I thought COLD water was a religious obligation! ! ! !
> >
> > Lynn in Fargo
> > (whose mother was wrong . . . on occasion!)
> >
> > Well for that matter why use water? The hot stock would be better.
> >
> > Paul
>
> but i think the heat is what makes it start to thicken. you'd be jumping
> the gun.

Hot broth or water to make a slurry of corn starch does not work. You
end up with lumps.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein


Subscribe:

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:57:46 -0700, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>
>> "Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> On Sep 26, 4:03 pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>>> "Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> Last night I worked on my presentation.
>>>> I had made a gravy out of the brazing liquid (Oxtails) by blending the
>>>> veggies with the gravy.
>>>> I poured a ladle-full on the plate and placed the meat on top. After a
>>>> few minutes, the gravy/sauce seperated with a watery edge.
>>>> What can be done to avoid this? Too much water in the gravy? it tasted
>>>> rich enough - Mike
>>>
>>> A tablespoon of corn starch and 2 tablespoons of warm water mixed
>>> together
>>> till smooth then wisked into the sauce.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Paul
>>
>> Who mixes WARM water with cornstarch to make a slurry? ? ?
>> I thought COLD water was a religious obligation! ! ! !
>>
>> Lynn in Fargo
>> (whose mother was wrong . . . on occasion!)
>>
>> Well for that matter why use water? The hot stock would be better.
>>
>> Paul
>
> but i think the heat is what makes it start to thicken. you'd be jumping
> the gun.
>

That and fat. Cornstarch doesn't work well in the absence of fat. I've
done it with the pot liquor, it doesn't thicken so fast.

Paul

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> >
>> > Who mixes WARM water with cornstarch to make a slurry? ? ?
>> > I thought COLD water was a religious obligation! ! ! !
>> >
>> > Lynn in Fargo
>> > (whose mother was wrong . . . on occasion!)
>> >
>> > Well for that matter why use water? The hot stock would be better.
>> >
>> > Paul
>>
>> but i think the heat is what makes it start to thicken. you'd be jumping
>> the gun.
>
> Hot broth or water to make a slurry of corn starch does not work. You
> end up with lumps.


Well it's not been a problem. A better way altogether though is to mix the
cornstarch with small cubes of butter and work it together. That way you
can set it aside and it won't congeal. Then you whisk it in until desired
thickness.

Paul

On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:27:21 -0700, Paul M. Cook wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
>> In article >,
>> blake murphy > wrote:
>>
>>> >
>>> > Who mixes WARM water with cornstarch to make a slurry? ? ?
>>> > I thought COLD water was a religious obligation! ! ! !
>>> >
>>> > Lynn in Fargo
>>> > (whose mother was wrong . . . on occasion!)
>>> >
>>> > Well for that matter why use water? The hot stock would be better.
>>> >
>>> > Paul
>>>
>>> but i think the heat is what makes it start to thicken. you'd be jumping
>>> the gun.
>>
>> Hot broth or water to make a slurry of corn starch does not work. You
>> end up with lumps.
>
> Well it's not been a problem. A better way altogether though is to mix the
> cornstarch with small cubes of butter and work it together. That way you
> can set it aside and it won't congeal. Then you whisk it in until desired
> thickness.
>
> Paul

i've heard of doing that with flour but not cornstarch.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:25:01 -0700, Paul M. Cook wrote:

> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:57:46 -0700, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>
>>> "Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> On Sep 26, 4:03 pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>>>> "Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> Last night I worked on my presentation.
>>>>> I had made a gravy out of the brazing liquid (Oxtails) by blending the
>>>>> veggies with the gravy.
>>>>> I poured a ladle-full on the plate and placed the meat on top. After a
>>>>> few minutes, the gravy/sauce seperated with a watery edge.
>>>>> What can be done to avoid this? Too much water in the gravy? it tasted
>>>>> rich enough - Mike
>>>>
>>>> A tablespoon of corn starch and 2 tablespoons of warm water mixed
>>>> together
>>>> till smooth then wisked into the sauce.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Who mixes WARM water with cornstarch to make a slurry? ? ?
>>> I thought COLD water was a religious obligation! ! ! !
>>>
>>> Lynn in Fargo
>>> (whose mother was wrong . . . on occasion!)
>>>
>>> Well for that matter why use water? The hot stock would be better.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>> but i think the heat is what makes it start to thicken. you'd be jumping
>> the gun.
>>
>
> That and fat. Cornstarch doesn't work well in the absence of fat. I've
> done it with the pot liquor, it doesn't thicken so fast.
>
> Paul

i guess it depends on what you mean by 'absence of fat.' the cornstarch
slurry is most commonly used (in my experience) with chinese stir-fries,
added after the wine, soy, and other spices have been added to the meat and
vegetables as the very last step. there's not a whole lot of fat there.

your pal,
blake

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:25:01 -0700, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>
> > "blake murphy" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:57:46 -0700, Paul M. Cook wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>> On Sep 26, 4:03 pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
> >>>> "Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>> ...
> >>>>
> >>>>> Last night I worked on my presentation.
> >>>>> I had made a gravy out of the brazing liquid (Oxtails) by blending the
> >>>>> veggies with the gravy.
> >>>>> I poured a ladle-full on the plate and placed the meat on top. After a
> >>>>> few minutes, the gravy/sauce seperated with a watery edge.
> >>>>> What can be done to avoid this? Too much water in the gravy? it tasted
> >>>>> rich enough - Mike
> >>>>
> >>>> A tablespoon of corn starch and 2 tablespoons of warm water mixed
> >>>> together
> >>>> till smooth then wisked into the sauce.
> >>>>
> >>>> Paul
> >>>
> >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>> Who mixes WARM water with cornstarch to make a slurry? ? ?
> >>> I thought COLD water was a religious obligation! ! ! !
> >>>
> >>> Lynn in Fargo
> >>> (whose mother was wrong . . . on occasion!)
> >>>
> >>> Well for that matter why use water? The hot stock would be better.
> >>>
> >>> Paul
> >>
> >> but i think the heat is what makes it start to thicken. you'd be jumping
> >> the gun.
> >>
> >
> > That and fat. Cornstarch doesn't work well in the absence of fat. I've
> > done it with the pot liquor, it doesn't thicken so fast.
> >
> > Paul
>
> i guess it depends on what you mean by 'absence of fat.' the cornstarch
> slurry is most commonly used (in my experience) with chinese stir-fries,
> added after the wine, soy, and other spices have been added to the meat and
> vegetables as the very last step. there's not a whole lot of fat there.
>
> your pal,
> blake

I use corn starch slurry routinely to thicken sauces, soups, stews and
gravies and generally defat the stock I use to make said recipes.

There is often little to no fat in any of them, and I have NO trouble
with my corn starch thickening.

I'm not sure why his separated, but I suspect he may have used too much
and not thoroughly mixed it. I let it simmer for a bit after adding it
to get it all evenly distributed and I stir it a LOT.

I've never taken pics of my thickening process in stuff I've made. I
guess I need to remedy that oversight. ;-)
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein


Subscribe:

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
.. .
> On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:27:21 -0700, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" > wrote in message
>> news
>>> In article >,
>>> blake murphy > wrote:
>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Who mixes WARM water with cornstarch to make a slurry? ? ?
>>>> > I thought COLD water was a religious obligation! ! ! !
>>>> >
>>>> > Lynn in Fargo
>>>> > (whose mother was wrong . . . on occasion!)
>>>> >
>>>> > Well for that matter why use water? The hot stock would be better.
>>>> >
>>>> > Paul
>>>>
>>>> but i think the heat is what makes it start to thicken. you'd be
>>>> jumping
>>>> the gun.
>>>
>>> Hot broth or water to make a slurry of corn starch does not work. You
>>> end up with lumps.
>>
>> Well it's not been a problem. A better way altogether though is to mix
>> the
>> cornstarch with small cubes of butter and work it together. That way you
>> can set it aside and it won't congeal. Then you whisk it in until
>> desired
>> thickness.
>>
>> Paul
>
> i've heard of doing that with flour but not cornstarch.

Works for both.

Paul

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
.. .
> On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:25:01 -0700, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>
>> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:57:46 -0700, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>> On Sep 26, 4:03 pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>>>>> "Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Last night I worked on my presentation.
>>>>>> I had made a gravy out of the brazing liquid (Oxtails) by blending
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> veggies with the gravy.
>>>>>> I poured a ladle-full on the plate and placed the meat on top. After
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> few minutes, the gravy/sauce seperated with a watery edge.
>>>>>> What can be done to avoid this? Too much water in the gravy? it
>>>>>> tasted
>>>>>> rich enough - Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> A tablespoon of corn starch and 2 tablespoons of warm water mixed
>>>>> together
>>>>> till smooth then wisked into the sauce.
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> Who mixes WARM water with cornstarch to make a slurry? ? ?
>>>> I thought COLD water was a religious obligation! ! ! !
>>>>
>>>> Lynn in Fargo
>>>> (whose mother was wrong . . . on occasion!)
>>>>
>>>> Well for that matter why use water? The hot stock would be better.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>
>>> but i think the heat is what makes it start to thicken. you'd be
>>> jumping
>>> the gun.
>>>
>>
>> That and fat. Cornstarch doesn't work well in the absence of fat. I've
>> done it with the pot liquor, it doesn't thicken so fast.
>>
>> Paul
>
> i guess it depends on what you mean by 'absence of fat.' the cornstarch
> slurry is most commonly used (in my experience) with chinese stir-fries,
> added after the wine, soy, and other spices have been added to the meat
> and
> vegetables as the very last step. there's not a whole lot of fat there.
>

There is plenty of oil used in the process including sesame oil for the
finish. I know the Chinese measure for a tablespoon is way more than what
we call a tablespoon. Anything stir fried is bound to be loaded up with
oil. But I never use the corn starch at the end of the fry, I marinate the
meat I use with cornstarch and usually sesame oil. It thickens the sauce as
it cooks. If I were making a vegetable only stir fry I suppose I would make
a slurry.

Paul

Michael Horowitz wrote:
>
> Last night I worked on my presentation.
> I had made a gravy out of the brazing liquid (Oxtails) by blending the
> veggies with the gravy.
> I poured a ladle-full on the plate and placed the meat on top. After a
> few minutes, the gravy/sauce seperated with a watery edge.
> What can be done to avoid this? Too much water in the gravy? it tasted
> rich enough - Mike

LOL. 'Broken' sauces are in lately. Leave it, add a few fresh herbs to
the plate and say you are cutting edge.

Sounds as though there was too much fat for whatever you used to thicken
the sauce. And the word is 'braising'. Brazing (look it up) meat could
lead to interesting results

On Sep 28, 5:19 pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:

....an unusual lot of nonsense in this thread. First, cornstarch mixes
well and easily into cold liquid; warm and hot liquids just enable the
formation of lumps. No experienced cook will use other than cold.
Second, the notion of a faux beurre manie using cornstarch instead of
flour is only in your dreams. You've never done it and neither has
anyone else because it is completely unnecessary. Flour needs fat to
prevent lumping, cornstarch doesn't. Third, the notion that Chinese
stirfries need to be oily or that Chinese cooks use larger tablespoons
than Western cooks is absurd. Given a well-seasoned wok you can use
no oil at all for many stirfries if that's what you choose. It's
entirely up to the cook. -aem

"aem" > wrote in message
...
> On Sep 28, 5:19 pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>
> ...an unusual lot of nonsense in this thread. First, cornstarch mixes
> well and easily into cold liquid; warm and hot liquids just enable the
> formation of lumps. No experienced cook will use other than cold.

Never had a lump issue. I've simply dumped some CS into a bowl and ladled
in some warm or hot liquid and even used my finger to mix it up then right
ino the pot. Works for me. I cook a lot like Jamie Oliver - kind of all
over the place. But the results speak for themselves.

> Second, the notion of a faux beurre manie using cornstarch instead of
> flour is only in your dreams.

Really? That's how I make gravy and my mother did it that way too for
decades. Maybe I'm onto something here? I prefer cornstarch as it does not
have the flour flavor which to get rid of means cooking a roux ahead of
time. Oh and cornstarch goes clear while flour makes for a more cloudy
appearance. But I typically use neither if I can thicken it some other way.
Gravy though is always made with cornstarch and butter.

You've never done it and neither has
> anyone else because it is completely unnecessary. Flour needs fat to
> prevent lumping, cornstarch doesn't. Third, the notion that Chinese
> stirfries need to be oily or that Chinese cooks use larger tablespoons
> than Western cooks is absurd. Given a well-seasoned wok you can use
> no oil at all for many stirfries if that's what you choose. It's
> entirely up to the cook. -aem

Oil is a pretty common ingredient. I never said "need" to use more oil.
Sure, you could use Pam I suppose. I said they typically have plenty of oil
unlike Blake's claim - way too much often. The amount is up to you. And
they do use very much bigger quantities of oil than probably an American
cook would use. Good Chinese food is hardly low fat. I learned to
marinate meat in oil, soy sauce and cornstarch years ago. It makes for a
wonderful result and it thickens the sauce when you return the meat back to
the wok for final assembly.

What we have here is a conflict between conventional wisdom and a different
way of doing things. Orthodox versus modern. If I am wrong, I will burn
in culinary hell for all eternity. So keep your drawers on and relax. It's
my soul.

Paul

Paul M. Cook wrote:
> "aem" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sep 28, 5:19 pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>>
>> ...an unusual lot of nonsense in this thread. First, cornstarch mixes
>> well and easily into cold liquid; warm and hot liquids just enable the
>> formation of lumps. No experienced cook will use other than cold.
>
> Never had a lump issue. I've simply dumped some CS into a bowl and ladled
> in some warm or hot liquid and even used my finger to mix it up then right
> ino the pot. Works for me. I cook a lot like Jamie Oliver - kind of all
> over the place. But the results speak for themselves.
>
>> Second, the notion of a faux beurre manie using cornstarch instead of
>> flour is only in your dreams.
>
> Really? That's how I make gravy and my mother did it that way too for
> decades. Maybe I'm onto something here? I prefer cornstarch as it does not
> have the flour flavor which to get rid of means cooking a roux ahead of
> time. Oh and cornstarch goes clear while flour makes for a more cloudy
> appearance. But I typically use neither if I can thicken it some other way.
> Gravy though is always made with cornstarch and butter.
>
> You've never done it and neither has
>> anyone else because it is completely unnecessary. Flour needs fat to
>> prevent lumping, cornstarch doesn't. Third, the notion that Chinese
>> stirfries need to be oily or that Chinese cooks use larger tablespoons
>> than Western cooks is absurd. Given a well-seasoned wok you can use
>> no oil at all for many stirfries if that's what you choose. It's
>> entirely up to the cook. -aem
>
> Oil is a pretty common ingredient. I never said "need" to use more oil.
> Sure, you could use Pam I suppose. I said they typically have plenty of oil
> unlike Blake's claim - way too much often. The amount is up to you. And
> they do use very much bigger quantities of oil than probably an American
> cook would use. Good Chinese food is hardly low fat. I learned to
> marinate meat in oil, soy sauce and cornstarch years ago. It makes for a
> wonderful result and it thickens the sauce when you return the meat back to
> the wok for final assembly.
>
> What we have here is a conflict between conventional wisdom and a different
> way of doing things. Orthodox versus modern. If I am wrong, I will burn
> in culinary hell for all eternity. So keep your drawers on and relax. It's
> my soul.
>
> Paul


Whenever I see someone put the word "sauce" needlessly in quotation
marks, I assume it's just a euphemism for something nasty. Y'all seem
to be taking it literally (and *way* too seriously.)

Best regards,
Bob

On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:32:13 -0700 (PDT), aem >
wrote:

>On Sep 28, 5:19 pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>
>...an unusual lot of nonsense in this thread. First, cornstarch mixes
>well and easily into cold liquid; warm and hot liquids just enable the
>formation of lumps. No experienced cook will use other than cold.
>Second, the notion of a faux beurre manie using cornstarch instead of
>flour is only in your dreams. You've never done it and neither has
>anyone else because it is completely unnecessary. Flour needs fat to
>prevent lumping, cornstarch doesn't. Third, the notion that Chinese
>stirfries need to be oily or that Chinese cooks use larger tablespoons
>than Western cooks is absurd. Given a well-seasoned wok you can use
>no oil at all for many stirfries if that's what you choose. It's
>entirely up to the cook. -aem

FYI... one way to put a "broken" sauce back together again is to add
water. Sauces break because the moisture has been cooked out. Same
for tomato sauce. When you're left with fat/oil and solids, add a
little water.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> Paul M. Cook wrote:
>> "aem" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sep 28, 5:19 pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>>>
>>> ...an unusual lot of nonsense in this thread. First, cornstarch mixes
>>> well and easily into cold liquid; warm and hot liquids just enable the
>>> formation of lumps. No experienced cook will use other than cold.
>>
>> Never had a lump issue. I've simply dumped some CS into a bowl and
>> ladled in some warm or hot liquid and even used my finger to mix it up
>> then right ino the pot. Works for me. I cook a lot like Jamie Oliver -
>> kind of all over the place. But the results speak for themselves.
>>
>>> Second, the notion of a faux beurre manie using cornstarch instead of
>>> flour is only in your dreams.
>>
>> Really? That's how I make gravy and my mother did it that way too for
>> decades. Maybe I'm onto something here? I prefer cornstarch as it does
>> not have the flour flavor which to get rid of means cooking a roux ahead
>> of time. Oh and cornstarch goes clear while flour makes for a more
>> cloudy appearance. But I typically use neither if I can thicken it some
>> other way. Gravy though is always made with cornstarch and butter.
>>
>> You've never done it and neither has
>>> anyone else because it is completely unnecessary. Flour needs fat to
>>> prevent lumping, cornstarch doesn't. Third, the notion that Chinese
>>> stirfries need to be oily or that Chinese cooks use larger tablespoons
>>> than Western cooks is absurd. Given a well-seasoned wok you can use
>>> no oil at all for many stirfries if that's what you choose. It's
>>> entirely up to the cook. -aem
>>
>> Oil is a pretty common ingredient. I never said "need" to use more oil.
>> Sure, you could use Pam I suppose. I said they typically have plenty of
>> oil unlike Blake's claim - way too much often. The amount is up to you.
>> And they do use very much bigger quantities of oil than probably an
>> American cook would use. Good Chinese food is hardly low fat. I
>> learned to marinate meat in oil, soy sauce and cornstarch years ago. It
>> makes for a wonderful result and it thickens the sauce when you return
>> the meat back to the wok for final assembly.
>>
>> What we have here is a conflict between conventional wisdom and a
>> different way of doing things. Orthodox versus modern. If I am wrong,
>> I will burn in culinary hell for all eternity. So keep your drawers on
>> and relax. It's my soul.
>>
>> Paul
>
>
> Whenever I see someone put the word "sauce" needlessly in quotation marks,
> I assume it's just a euphemism for something nasty. Y'all seem to be
> taking it literally (and *way* too seriously.)

I can't find the word used in quotes. Maybe you need new glasses?

Paul

"Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>
>> I can't find the word used in quotes. Maybe you need new glasses?
>
> Hint: Look up. The subject line. :-)
>
> Regards,
> Ranee @ Arabian Knits
>

Whoa, missed that altogether.

Paul