In article >,
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:

> "Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I've ground my own meat for years when making hamburgers, spaghetti
> > sauce, meatloaf, etc., because it just seemed sensible. I know my KA
> > grinder attachment is clean and will produce clean ground meat. This
> > article in the New York Times makes me wonder why ground beef at the
> > market doesn't come with a warning label:
> >
> > http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?se...rld&id=7044287
> >
> > If this is true for ground beef, I wonder what other food stuffs are
> > similarly contaminated.
>
> Looks like the link has been changed.
>
> Commercial ground beef is nasty stuff though. It proves the human body can
> endure a lot of contamination.

Yeah. The link changed to a totally unrelated story.

I have, however, read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair.

One of many reasons I've gotten into making my own sausage...
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

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In article >,
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:

> "jalapeno" > wrote in message
> Try this instead:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/04/he...t.html?_r=1&hp
>
> Instead, records and interviews show, a single portion of hamburger meat is
> often an amalgam of various grades of meat from different parts of cows and
> even from different slaughterhouses.

Our local stores "fresh" ground beef is trustworthy. They take all of
the beef that is fixin' to outdate (including all cuts from the most to
the least expensive) and grind it in store. Their setup is visible from
the sales area.

I can actually trust it. ;-)

They refused to do a custom grind for me once as they said they'd have
to take apart the grinder and clean it after my small ground pork order!

I own my own grinder and was just being lazy... <g> I apologized to
them for asking.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

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In article > ,
"Janet Bostwick" > wrote:

> "notbob" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On 2009-10-04, brooklyn1 > wrote:
> >
> >> Try this instead:
> >>
> >> http://i36.tinypic.com/346vuc1.jpg
> >
> > Howz the price compare, Shel?
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/ybh4wkr
> >
> > Cabela's has larger grinders, too, including commercial grade refurbs.
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/yeb3bbt
> >
> > nb
> Are they made by the same outfit? I've been running my beef through my food
> processor for the time being, but want a grinder. I guess now is the time.
> Janet

I got Cabelas $99.00 meat grinder on sale for half price on a Black
Friday sale. I suspect they do that from time to time to sell
accessories.

Here is a pic of me using it:

<http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmele...9#538377999996
4813330>

Or:

<http://tinyurl.com/y9fdgag>
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

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Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>
>
>>"jalapeno" > wrote in message
>>Try this instead:
>>
>>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/04/he...t.html?_r=1&hp
>>
>>Instead, records and interviews show, a single portion of hamburger meat is
>>often an amalgam of various grades of meat from different parts of cows and
>>even from different slaughterhouses.
>
>
> Our local stores "fresh" ground beef is trustworthy. They take all of
> the beef that is fixin' to outdate (including all cuts from the most to
> the least expensive) and grind it in store. Their setup is visible from
> the sales area.
>
> I can actually trust it. ;-)
>
> They refused to do a custom grind for me once as they said they'd have
> to take apart the grinder and clean it after my small ground pork order!
>
> I own my own grinder and was just being lazy... <g> I apologized to
> them for asking.

Yeah, one of the butchers at Dierbergs bitched and grumbled when I asked
him to grind some on-sale boneless pork chops for me. Told me that
there'd still be some of my meat stuck in the grinder but he'd have to
charge me for the entire amount. Told him, fine, whatever, get busy.
That I'd inquire of Dr. Dierberg about policy when next I saw him.

I was charged for the net weight, after processing, of my purchase.

What an ass wipe. Like that's not his frackin' job...

In article >,
Sqwertz > wrote:

> On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 15:53:01 -0400, brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> > Try this instead:
> >
> > http://i36.tinypic.com/346vuc1.jpg
>
> Lousy distribution of fat.
>
> -sw

The grinder screw is too short.
I get a MUCH better distribution.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

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In article >,
Sqwertz > wrote:

> On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:58:17 -0600, Gloria P wrote:
>
> > Great, iyou can trade e. coli for wasting disease, bovine spongiform
> > encephalitis, a prion disease just like Mad Cow, but carried by elk.
>
> Wild elk (as in 'roaming free', not 'wild and crazy') should be
> pretty safe. You just have to worry about trich.
>
> -sw

And Giardia, and other parasites.

You have to really be careful with your butchering practices.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

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Omelet > wrote in newsmpomelet-40462D.13291705102009@news-
wc.giganews.com on Oct Mon 2009 01:29 pm

> In article >,
> Sqwertz > wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:58:17 -0600, Gloria P wrote:
>>
>> > Great, iyou can trade e. coli for wasting disease, bovine spongiform
>> > encephalitis, a prion disease just like Mad Cow, but carried by elk.
>>
>> Wild elk (as in 'roaming free', not 'wild and crazy') should be
>> pretty safe. You just have to worry about trich.
>>
>> -sw
>
> And Giardia, and other parasites.
>
> You have to really be careful with your butchering practices.

there's a lot of mad cow diease in elk herds.

--
Is that your nose, or are you eatting a banana? -Jimmy Durante

blake murphy wrote:

> On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 18:08:55 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 14:20:56 -0600, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>
>>> Well, that's an eye opener. I had no idea about the coming
>>> together of so many well-traveled, different meat products to make
>>> the hamburgers that we eat.
>>
>> That is only for anything labeled "patty" or "patties" or "mix".
>> "Ground beef" is not allowed to have any of the amalgam, thrombin
>> plasma shit in it.
>>
>> The NY Times didn't bother to tell you that part as part of it.
>> They don't make as much money if they don't scare you.
>>
>> -sw
>
> i should have added that distinction to my 'killing customers' post.
> i wouldn't buy pre-formed, frozen patties (or the stuff in tubes) for
> taste and other esthetic reasons anyway.


I visit a wholesale restaurant supply place once in a whiles (a friend is a
business owner and she has a membership) and those big ole' tubes of ground
beef look kinda "odd"...like _Soylent Green_ "odd".


--
Best
Greg

On 2009-10-05, Omelet > wrote:

>> Wild elk (as in 'roaming free', not 'wild and crazy') should be
>> pretty safe. You just have to worry about trich.

> You have to really be careful with your butchering practices.

I'm sure elk are not running around feeding on cow brains.

nb

In article >,
notbob > wrote:

> On 2009-10-05, Ranee at Arabian Knits > wrote:
>
>
> > horrifying. Follow the money, it goes to Tyson, Cargill, Conagra,
> > Monsanto and the manufacturers of the RFID chips. This program protects
> > them, hurts their competition and our government is pimping for it.
>
> I would like to say I'm shocked, but I'm not. It's business and govt,
> as usual, doing everything they can do destroy free enterprise in
> this country under the guise of benefiting the people. It occurs at
> every level and in every corner of business and is no longer even covert.
> It's just out in the open, blatant, the govt and biz just flaunting their
> power, saying, "What are you going to do about it?".
>
> Short of another American revolution, I've pretty much reconciled
> myself to the eventual political collapse of this country in the not
> too distant future, that is if the world's ecology doesn't rebel and
> wipe out human life on this planet, first.

There was an American revolution not that long ago. Big business and
government were working, hand in hand, to run things. The workers
decided that they were being exploited. They went on strike. No
problem. Call the governor, who then calls out the National Guard to
break up the strike. Can't interfere with business, now can you? Well,
that backfired. The important business people each get one vote. The
have a lot of power and influence, but the unions have a whole lot of
members, each of whom gets a vote. Soon laws were passed. Some of them
were anti-trust, and a lot of the monopolies were broken up. Others
laws gave unions a whole lot of power, maybe too much. It was needed at
the time, though.

I see an American revolution in the works now. People like Ranee are
buying locally. They are bypassing agribusiness. We'll see where it
goes.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On 2009-10-05, hahabogus > wrote:

> there's a lot of mad cow diease in elk herds.

the jury is still out:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0730111152.htm

nb

In article >,
Omelet > wrote:

> In article >,
> Sqwertz > wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:58:17 -0600, Gloria P wrote:
> >
> > > Great, iyou can trade e. coli for wasting disease, bovine spongiform
> > > encephalitis, a prion disease just like Mad Cow, but carried by elk.
> >
> > Wild elk (as in 'roaming free', not 'wild and crazy') should be
> > pretty safe. You just have to worry about trich.
> >
> > -sw
>
> And Giardia, and other parasites.

Too funny. I skimmed your reply before I read the preceding. I read it
as:

"And Giada, and other parasites."

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article >,
Kathleen > wrote:

> >
> > Our local stores "fresh" ground beef is trustworthy. They take all of
> > the beef that is fixin' to outdate (including all cuts from the most to
> > the least expensive) and grind it in store. Their setup is visible from
> > the sales area.
> >
> > I can actually trust it. ;-)
> >
> > They refused to do a custom grind for me once as they said they'd have
> > to take apart the grinder and clean it after my small ground pork order!
> >
> > I own my own grinder and was just being lazy... <g> I apologized to
> > them for asking.
>
> Yeah, one of the butchers at Dierbergs bitched and grumbled when I asked
> him to grind some on-sale boneless pork chops for me. Told me that
> there'd still be some of my meat stuck in the grinder but he'd have to
> charge me for the entire amount. Told him, fine, whatever, get busy.
> That I'd inquire of Dr. Dierberg about policy when next I saw him.
>
> I was charged for the net weight, after processing, of my purchase.
>
> What an ass wipe. Like that's not his frackin' job...

<lol> You do get what you pay for... ;-)
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

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In article >,
hahabogus > wrote:

> Omelet > wrote in
> newsmpomelet-40462D.13291705102009@news-
> wc.giganews.com on Oct Mon 2009 01:29 pm
>
> > In article >,
> > Sqwertz > wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:58:17 -0600, Gloria P wrote:
> >>
> >> > Great, iyou can trade e. coli for wasting disease, bovine spongiform
> >> > encephalitis, a prion disease just like Mad Cow, but carried by elk.
> >>
> >> Wild elk (as in 'roaming free', not 'wild and crazy') should be
> >> pretty safe. You just have to worry about trich.
> >>
> >> -sw
> >
> > And Giardia, and other parasites.
> >
> > You have to really be careful with your butchering practices.
>
> there's a lot of mad cow diease in elk herds.

I've read about that. We don't have Elk around here. Just White Tail
deer. LOTS of white tail deer! I see them around all the time on my way
home in the mornings. Mostly live, but some are vulture food too...
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

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In article >,
notbob > wrote:

> On 2009-10-05, Omelet > wrote:
>
> >> Wild elk (as in 'roaming free', not 'wild and crazy') should be
> >> pretty safe. You just have to worry about trich.
>
> > You have to really be careful with your butchering practices.
>
> I'm sure elk are not running around feeding on cow brains.
>
> nb

Does not matter. He's right. They carry a lot of other diseases too.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

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Subscribe:

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> On 2009-10-04, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> Commercial ground beef is nasty stuff though. It proves the human body
>> can
>> endure a lot of contamination.
>
> It proves nothing much has changed since Upton Sinclair wrote The
> Jungle and both the FDA and the USDA are completely useless and in the
> pockets of big Ag. It's also why big Ag wants to use radiation, so
> they can continue their cost-cutting, life-risking, shortcuts to
> increased profits. Jes point that radiation gun at your food and all
> nature of sloppy handling and contamination can roll on by.
>
> Here, if you weren't depressed enough about our collapsing ecology:
>
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...edwaters/view/
>
> nb

But the FDA and the USDA came from (Teddy Roosevelt) the Jungle. Nasty book,
but somewhat enlightening.

"brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 12:30:03 -0700 (PDT), jalapeno >
> wrote:
>
>>On Oct 4, 12:14?pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>>
>>> Tennessee mother reunited with infant son?
>>
>>Try this instead:
>>
>>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/04/he...t.html?_r=1&hp
>
> Try this instead:
>
> http://i36.tinypic.com/346vuc1.jpg
>

DAmnit-now I'm hungry for a burger.

"brooklyn1" > wrote in message
news
> On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 20:26:58 GMT, notbob > wrote:
>
>>On 2009-10-04, brooklyn1 > wrote:
>>
>>> Try this instead:
>>>
>>> http://i36.tinypic.com/346vuc1.jpg
>>
>>Howz the price compare, Shel?
>
> Oh, I thought you meant the meat:
> http://i35.tinypic.com/8yb28g.jpg
>
>
> I paid the same $169.00 at Chefscatalog.com
>
>>http://tinyurl.com/ybh4wkr
>>
>>Cabela's has larger grinders, too, including commercial grade refurbs.
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/yeb3bbt
>>
>>nb
>
> Cabellas has good buys on grinders, but I doubt anyone needs a
> commercial sized grinder for home use... the Waring Pro makes quick
> work of grinding, handles like 4-5 pounds a minute. The important
> thing is to grind your own meat.

Waring lasts a good while. Mine lasted about 5 years w/heavy use (when I was
experimenting with sausage).

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> Sqwertz > wrote:
>
>
>> On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 15:53:01 -0400, brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Try this instead:
>>>
>>> http://i36.tinypic.com/346vuc1.jpg
>>>
>> Lousy distribution of fat.
>>
>> -sw
>>
>
> The grinder screw is too short.
> I get a MUCH better distribution.
>

Hey girl, you never tell a man his grinder screw is too short. ;-)


Becca

In article >,
Becca > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Sqwertz > wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 15:53:01 -0400, brooklyn1 wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Try this instead:
> >>>
> >>> http://i36.tinypic.com/346vuc1.jpg
> >>>
> >> Lousy distribution of fat.
> >>
> >> -sw
> >>
> >
> > The grinder screw is too short.
> > I get a MUCH better distribution.
> >
>
> Hey girl, you never tell a man his grinder screw is too short. ;-)
>
>
> Becca

Just point and laugh then? ;-D
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

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Subscribe:

In article >,
Omelet > wrote:

> In article >,
> Becca > wrote:
>
> > Omelet wrote:
> > > In article >,
> > > Sqwertz > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 15:53:01 -0400, brooklyn1 wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Try this instead:
> > >>>
> > >>> http://i36.tinypic.com/346vuc1.jpg
> > >>>
> > >> Lousy distribution of fat.
> > >>
> > >> -sw
> > >>
> > >
> > > The grinder screw is too short.
> > > I get a MUCH better distribution.
> > >
> >
> > Hey girl, you never tell a man his grinder screw is too short. ;-)
> >
> >
> > Becca
>
> Just point and laugh then? ;-D

That should do it...

notbob wrote:

> On 2009-10-04, Gloria P > wrote:
>
>> Great, iyou can trade e. coli for wasting disease, bovine spongiform
>> encephalitis, a prion disease just like Mad Cow, but carried by elk.
>
> Geez, Gloria. I bet you're a real hoot at the sausage making party.
>


Have the BEARS eat the ELKS...

;-)


Is the the bear problem in CO really as bad as what's been portrayed on the
national nooze...???


--
Best
Greg

>
> Is the the bear problem in CO really as bad as what's been portrayed on the
> national nooze...???
>
>



Yes, particularly at this time of year when they are looking for food to
fatten before hibernating. This summer has been very wet and cooler
than usual so there are fewer berries, seeds, and other preferred food
than usual and the bears are hungry.

In the mountains the foothills? Yes. A bear walked into a shop in
downtown Aspen, walked around, climbed into the window ledge, then left
the shop because it found nothing to eat. A woman was killed as she fed
some bears (which she and her late husband had done for many
Bears have been seen high in trees in Denver's western suburbs near the
foothills. They sometimes walk away, other times break into nearby
houses through patio doors.

They have ransacked refrigerators in homes and vacation cabins. They
learn quickly where the food is.

When bears break into a house, car or dumpster they are tagged and
relocated. If they are seen close to homes again, they can be shot
because they have lost the fear of humans and are potential killers.
I'm not advocating the practice, just reporting it.

Most mountain towns require "bear-proof" trash cans (I'm not sure any
really work 100%) and ban feeding wildlife, even bird feeders with seed
or hummingbird nectar because all have been found to attract bears.

Elk have been a problem, too, at this time of year when they are "in
rut" (breeding). They have attacked a few people in their own driveways
in the foothills recently. One woman was gored fairly seriously.
Of course people flock to Estes Park to get close to the herds and hear
the distinctive "bugling" the males make to attract a mate, and they
get way too close to photograph prize specimens.

Coyotes have been seen in twos and threes on the bike/hiking path in
the Denver Tech Center. Mountain lions (puma) have walked away from
homes in the foothills carrying a pet dog or cat.

Many of these wild animals are more of a problem because there has
been so much development encroaching into their traditional home
territory.

gloria p

On 2009-10-06, Gloria P > wrote:

> than usual so there are fewer berries, seeds, and other preferred food
> than usual and the bears are hungry.

More than just bears. I'm not a longtime resident of CO, but after a couple
Winters it's strange to see young bucks coming right up to the house
to feed on young foliage. I was delighted and amazed to see a
ptarmigan right outside my glass door on our deck. It walks around
the park like an old friend. A young eagle perched in a low tree in
our yard. They don't usually cruise the river until the first snow.

Looks like a long hard winter.

nb

Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
> I've ground my own meat for years when making hamburgers, spaghetti
> sauce, meatloaf, etc., because it just seemed sensible. I know my KA
> grinder attachment is clean and will produce clean ground meat. This
> article in the New York Times makes me wonder why ground beef at the
> market doesn't come with a warning label:
>
> http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?se...rld&id=7044287
>
> If this is true for ground beef, I wonder what other food stuffs are
> similarly contaminated.

You should read "My Year of Meats". Bleccch. Almost enough to make me
turn vegetarian.

Not quite though.

TammyM

Fortuantely, the problem is in the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1218496

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 08:52:46 -0600, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>
>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 22:41:25 -0600, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> Not at all. A packer cut brisket will yield about 85% of the
>>>>> original weight in 80% lean ground beef. IOW, you only cut off
>>>>> about 15% of the fat before grinding. Grind that separately and
>>>>> render it for making french fries. It's a win-win.
>>>>
>>>> These particular briskets seem to have a thicker layer of fat than
>>>> most.
>>>
>>> They're called "packer cut" briskets. I'm pretty familiar with
>>> them.
>>>
>>> -sw
>> I'm not arguing with you. Tell me more. I have never purchased a cut
>> like
>> this. When I've bought them at the supermarket (the full brisket), they
>> didn't have as much fat. Now I'm looking at brisket at Cash and Carry, a
>> restaurant supply place. You're saying that all these packer cuts are
>> basically the same with the fat layer? And what I'm seeing isn't
>> unusual?
>> I've been hesitating on this purchase for a month or more, trying to
>> decide
>> if it was a decent deal.
>
> Packer Cut Briskets are untrimmed of fat. When properly chilled,
> they will have a hard, solid fat cap (knuckle) sticking up from the
> point. Market price is $1.30-$1.70/lb, but not available at that
> market price everywhere.
>
> They also sell the cryovaced int he same way, but trimmed. These
> run $2.50-$3/lb.
>
> It's well worth buying a full packer cut, cutting off 15-20% as fat,
> and rendering it for french fries. What's left should be about 80%
> lean beef.
>
> -sw
O.k., thanks, I'll give it a try. That's the only way that I will
understand for myself.
Janet

Animals are wild and people should stop feeding them. This morning a
woman in Lakeland, Florida was attacked by 5 raccoons. She was covered
in blood, you could see the bone in one of her legs and her achilles
tendons was torn.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wor...-1225783434309


Becca

notbob wrote:
> On 2009-10-06, Gloria P > wrote:
>
>> than usual so there are fewer berries, seeds, and other preferred food
>> than usual and the bears are hungry.
>
> More than just bears. I'm not a longtime resident of CO, but after a couple
> Winters it's strange to see young bucks coming right up to the house
> to feed on young foliage. I was delighted and amazed to see a
> ptarmigan right outside my glass door on our deck. It walks around
> the park like an old friend. A young eagle perched in a low tree in
> our yard. They don't usually cruise the river until the first snow.
>
> Looks like a long hard winter.
>
> nb


Yes. Two Colorado ski areas are opening this week, Loveland tomorrow
and Arapahoe Basin Friday. As usual with early openings, they'll have
only one or two runs open with snow mostly down the center of the slope.

gloria p

Gloria P wrote:
>
> >
> > Is the the bear problem in CO really as bad as what's been portrayed on the
> > national nooze...???
> >
> >
>
> Yes, particularly at this time of year when they are looking for food to
> fatten before hibernating. This summer has been very wet and cooler
> than usual so there are fewer berries, seeds, and other preferred food
> than usual and the bears are hungry.
>
> In the mountains the foothills? Yes. A bear walked into a shop in
> downtown Aspen, walked around, climbed into the window ledge, then left
> the shop because it found nothing to eat. A woman was killed as she fed
> some bears (which she and her late husband had done for many
> Bears have been seen high in trees in Denver's western suburbs near the
> foothills. They sometimes walk away, other times break into nearby
> houses through patio doors.

We too have a bear problem. The housing developments are moving farther
up the sides of the mountains, which pushes the bears and coyotes (and
the occasional bobcat) farther into town. Two years ago we had a bear
literally around the corner...didn't see it though

Easy enough to see hawks flying above the arroyo, but more building
there is going to drive them away as well. Can hear the coyotes howling
down there as well in the early morning. Roadrunners and Gambel quail
are common enough, but those are harmless.



>
> They have ransacked refrigerators in homes and vacation cabins. They
> learn quickly where the food is.
>
> When bears break into a house, car or dumpster they are tagged and
> relocated. If they are seen close to homes again, they can be shot
> because they have lost the fear of humans and are potential killers.
> I'm not advocating the practice, just reporting it.
>
> Most mountain towns require "bear-proof" trash cans (I'm not sure any
> really work 100%) and ban feeding wildlife, even bird feeders with seed
> or hummingbird nectar because all have been found to attract bears.
>
> Elk have been a problem, too, at this time of year when they are "in
> rut" (breeding). They have attacked a few people in their own driveways
> in the foothills recently. One woman was gored fairly seriously.
> Of course people flock to Estes Park to get close to the herds and hear
> the distinctive "bugling" the males make to attract a mate, and they
> get way too close to photograph prize specimens.
>
> Coyotes have been seen in twos and threes on the bike/hiking path in
> the Denver Tech Center. Mountain lions (puma) have walked away from
> homes in the foothills carrying a pet dog or cat.
>
> Many of these wild animals are more of a problem because there has
> been so much development encroaching into their traditional home
> territory.
>
> gloria p

Becca wrote:
> Animals are wild and people should stop feeding them. This morning a
> woman in Lakeland, Florida was attacked by 5 raccoons. She was covered
> in blood, you could see the bone in one of her legs and her achilles
> tendons was torn.
>


Ugh. Raccoons are cute at a distance, but they can be vicious.
They also can transmit rabies and canine distemper among other
diseases.

And those cute prairie dogs? Since we've lived in CO, more than
one person has been killed by plague carried by prairie dog fleas.

Wild animals aren't pets and shouldn't be encouraged to come close.
Bird feeding is a different story.

gloria p

Christine Dabney wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:12:30 -0600, Arri London >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>> We too have a bear problem. The housing developments are moving farther
>> up the sides of the mountains, which pushes the bears and coyotes (and
>> the occasional bobcat) farther into town. Two years ago we had a bear
>> literally around the corner...didn't see it though
>
> Oh now you tell me!!!! Where do I live? The foothills...LOL.
>
> Christine


Look around carefully before you go outside and don't go out after dark
without a big stick and a flashlight. OTOH if wildlife hasn't been
spotted in your area, never mind!

gloria p

On 2009-10-07, Gloria P > wrote:

> Ugh. Raccoons are cute at a distance, but they can be vicious.
> They also can transmit rabies and canine distemper among other
> diseases.
>
> And those cute prairie dogs? Since we've lived in CO, more than
> one person has been killed by plague carried by prairie dog fleas.
>
> Wild animals aren't pets and shouldn't be encouraged to come close.

Kill 'em all! Let god sort 'em out.

> Bird feeding is a different story.

Oooh....

I discovered the downside of bird feeders. I trimmed up all the trees
outside my window to provide birds with a good balance of bare limbs,
covering foliage, and natural seed, so I could enjoy viewing the
gorgeous American Goldfinch male, one of the most beautiful birds I've
ever seen. But wait! No males. No females. No interaction of
breeding and feeding like last yr. A puzzlemet! ...until I discovered
a transient neighbor 2 doors down put up 3 gorge-until-you-die bird
feeders!!

When I discovered the feeders and trained my binoculars on them, I was
shocked. It was like a UN food distro in a Somali refugee camp or
feeding time for pigeons in Central Park. Total riot! ...and never a
single male AG in my tree.

Seems much like the run-amok mentality of pet owners. I want what I
want and I have it, so screw everyone else and mother nature, too.

nb

notbob wrote:
> On 2009-10-07, Gloria P > wrote:
>
>> Ugh. Raccoons are cute at a distance, but they can be vicious.
>> They also can transmit rabies and canine distemper among other
>> diseases.
>>
>> And those cute prairie dogs? Since we've lived in CO, more than
>> one person has been killed by plague carried by prairie dog fleas.
>>
>> Wild animals aren't pets and shouldn't be encouraged to come close.
>
> Kill 'em all! Let god sort 'em out.
>
>> Bird feeding is a different story.
>
> Oooh....
>
> I discovered the downside of bird feeders. I trimmed up all the trees
> outside my window to provide birds with a good balance of bare limbs,
> covering foliage, and natural seed, so I could enjoy viewing the
> gorgeous American Goldfinch male, one of the most beautiful birds I've
> ever seen. But wait! No males. No females. No interaction of
> breeding and feeding like last yr. A puzzlemet! ...until I discovered
> a transient neighbor 2 doors down put up 3 gorge-until-you-die bird
> feeders!!
>
> When I discovered the feeders and trained my binoculars on them, I was
> shocked. It was like a UN food distro in a Somali refugee camp or
> feeding time for pigeons in Central Park. Total riot! ...and never a
> single male AG in my tree.
>
> Seems much like the run-amok mentality of pet owners. I want what I
> want and I have it, so screw everyone else and mother nature, too.
>
> nb
>
>
>

nb - Have you ever thought about writing for a living?

You made me even a little bit angry at your neighbor for the provided
bird dining experience when all you were trying to be a is a good nature
host..

Oh well, once your neighbor realizes they will eat $200 a month in food
if he provided, and other critters (squirrels, raccoons, deer, etc.)
will soon be there looking for hand-outs, he'll likely quit, or severely
moderate his feeding before too long.

I'm glad you are enjoying your nature environment though... I wish every
one could.

Bob

In article >,
Sqwertz > wrote:

> Packer Cut Briskets are untrimmed of fat. When properly chilled,
> they will have a hard, solid fat cap (knuckle) sticking up from the
> point. Market price is $1.30-$1.70/lb, but not available at that
> market price everywhere.
>
> They also sell the cryovaced int he same way, but trimmed. These
> run $2.50-$3/lb.
>
> It's well worth buying a full packer cut, cutting off 15-20% as fat,
> and rendering it for french fries. What's left should be about 80%
> lean beef.
>
> -sw

Ok, am I bad for _not_ cutting off that fat cap prior to BBQ'ing one of
these? I feel it helps the meat a lot to leave it there, then remove it
after cooking it.

Next time I BBQ a full brisket tho', I want to try a 48 or so hour
brine/marinade. The last one was very dry so I know I'm not doing it
right. :-(

I have a large crock that mom used to use to make saurkraut so it's
sufficiently large enough to brine something that big. And I have the
refrigerator space to do it. ;-)
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/home?tab=mq>

Subscribe:

On 2009-10-07, Bob Muncie > wrote:

> nb - Have you ever thought about writing for a living?

heh heh....

In my dreams. I'm too lazy to apply myself.

> You made me even a little bit angry at your neighbor for the provided
> bird dining experience when all you were trying to be a is a good nature
> host..

Yes. Even I had considered buying a bird feeder. When I saw the
shark-like feeding frenzy at the feeders, it shocked me. None or the
casual flitting of male and female birds amongst the branches,
searching, feeding, mating, etc, in the idyllic pastoral scene I
witnessed last Summer. At the feeders, it was beak-to-beak chaos, a
vicious, brutal, dust raising, feather ripping, end-of-the-world
display of bird violence I would have never imagined, had I not seen
it.

Sorry. This is not natural.

nb





>
> Oh well, once your neighbor realizes they will eat $200 a month in food
> if he provided, and other critters (squirrels, raccoons, deer, etc.)
> will soon be there looking for hand-outs, he'll likely quit, or severely
> moderate his feeding before too long.
>
> I'm glad you are enjoying your nature environment though... I wish every
> one could.
>
> Bob

notbob wrote:
> On 2009-10-07, Bob Muncie > wrote:
>
>> nb - Have you ever thought about writing for a living?
>
> heh heh....
>
> In my dreams. I'm too lazy to apply myself.
>
>> You made me even a little bit angry at your neighbor for the provided
>> bird dining experience when all you were trying to be a is a good nature
>> host..
>
> Yes. Even I had considered buying a bird feeder. When I saw the
> shark-like feeding frenzy at the feeders, it shocked me. None or the
> casual flitting of male and female birds amongst the branches,
> searching, feeding, mating, etc, in the idyllic pastoral scene I
> witnessed last Summer. At the feeders, it was beak-to-beak chaos, a
> vicious, brutal, dust raising, feather ripping, end-of-the-world
> display of bird violence I would have never imagined, had I not seen
> it.
>
> Sorry. This is not natural.
>
> nb
>
>
>
>
>
>> Oh well, once your neighbor realizes they will eat $200 a month in food
>> if he provided, and other critters (squirrels, raccoons, deer, etc.)
>> will soon be there looking for hand-outs, he'll likely quit, or severely
>> moderate his feeding before too long.
>>
>> I'm glad you are enjoying your nature environment though... I wish every
>> one could.
>>
>> Bob

As stressing as the scene you describe, I have seen similar. What I have
done to counter is to use the feeder, but I do not keep it filled. I put
a couple cups of wild seed every other day or so. That keeps the
aggressiveness down, but the interest still there. Many small song birds
visit, as well as a bunch of other types, but at a more moderate spacing.

Anywho, consider doing the feeder, but not keeping it filled. It works
for me. I get to see a large number of various birds, without the
"frenzy" you have witnessed, and I recognize that from your description.
But the frenzy stopped when the feeder is kept full.

Bob

"Gloria P" > wrote in message
...
> Christine Dabney wrote:
>> On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:12:30 -0600, Arri London >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> We too have a bear problem. The housing developments are moving farther
>>> up the sides of the mountains, which pushes the bears and coyotes (and
>>> the occasional bobcat) farther into town. Two years ago we had a bear
>>> literally around the corner...didn't see it though
>>
>> Oh now you tell me!!!! Where do I live? The foothills...LOL.
>>
>> Christine
>
>
> Look around carefully before you go outside and don't go out after dark
> without a big stick and a flashlight. OTOH if wildlife hasn't been
> spotted in your area, never mind!
>
> gloria p
You mean like the guy in a new sub in our city who went out to his car to go
to work? Saw a large pool and streak of blood across his drive and a
mountain lion dragging a deer away. We are moving up into their territory
and they are moving down into ours. I won't walk our dog after dark, my
husband doesn't worry about walking after dark.
Janet

On 2009-10-07, Gloria P > wrote:

> Look around carefully before you go outside and don't go out after dark
> without a big stick and a flashlight.

After dark, I don't go out without a BIG flashlight and my 12 gauge
shotgun. Bears don't play.

nb

notbob wrote:
> On 2009-10-07, Gloria P > wrote:
>
>> Look around carefully before you go outside and don't go out after dark
>> without a big stick and a flashlight.
>
> After dark, I don't go out without a BIG flashlight and my 12 gauge
> shotgun. Bears don't play.
>
> nb

I'm guessing you don't live in downtown Atlanta or some other highly
populated area :-)