On Oct 15, 6:29*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
> wrote:
> First of all, let me say that the Top Chef show is not simply my
> favourite cooking show, but maybe the best show on all of TV.
> Especially the current competition, which features a collection of
> incredible chefs, four of whom are real geniuses.
>
> And that’s why I am angry at it for selling off. On today’s show, the
> contestants were ordered to make a dish featuring the product from the
> show’s sponsor: fast food chips called “Alexia Crunchy Snacks”.
> What’s worse, the competing chefs, people who cook extraordinary
> foods, were forced to go on camera and praise how delicious and
> healthy this junk food is!

It's a television show. Its purpose is to deliver you (the viewer) to
its
actual customers (the advertisers). The programming is just a lure
to get you to watch commercials.

I'd say that television is the pimp and the viewer is the prostitute.

Cindy Hamilton

On Oct 15, 6:11*am, Cindy Hamilton >
wrote:
> On Oct 15, 6:29*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
>
> > wrote:
> > First of all, let me say that the Top Chef show is not simply my
> > favourite cooking show, but maybe the best show on all of TV.
> > Especially the current competition, which features a collection of
> > incredible chefs, four of whom are real geniuses.
>
> > And that’s why I am angry at it for selling off. On today’s show, the
> > contestants were ordered to make a dish featuring the product from the
> > show’s sponsor: fast food chips called “Alexia Crunchy Snacks”.
> > What’s worse, the competing chefs, people who cook extraordinary
> > foods, were forced to go on camera and praise how delicious and
> > healthy this junk food is!
>
> It's a television show. *Its purpose is to deliver you (the viewer) to
> its
> actual customers (the advertisers). *The programming is just a lure
> to get you to watch commercials.
>

I don't mind commercials one bit. The producers need to get paid. I
fast forward through them anyway.

It is product placement that irritates me. And not so much product
palcement, but the fact that the chefs had to lie to the camera how
much they "love" this crap.

This is a reality show. Competitors are supposed to act REAL. If the
sponsor were, say, Haagen Dasz, I can accept seeing world-class chefs
cooing: "I love it!". But if it is total filth and the chefs are
saying: "This is great!" - I know that this i sno longer reality, this
is acting.

That's what bothers me: the departure from REALITY.

>
> I'd say that television is the pimp and the viewer is the prostitute.
>

So, anybody, who watches TV of any form, is a prostitute?!

> It is product placement that irritates me. And not so much product
> palcement, but the fact that the chefs had to lie to the camera how
> much they "love" this crap.
>
> This is a reality show. Competitors are supposed to act REAL. If the
> sponsor were, say, Haagen Dasz, I can accept seeing world-class chefs
> cooing: "I love it!". *But if it is total filth and the chefs are
> saying: "This is great!" - I know that this i sno longer reality, this
> is acting.
>
> That's what bothers me: the departure from REALITY.

The competitors have been eating those snacks in their temporary
quarters - maybe they do "love them." How do you know they don't?

N.

Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr. wrote:

> I don't mind commercials one bit. The producers need to get paid. I
> fast forward through them anyway.
>
> It is product placement that irritates me.

Of course, these two things go hand in hand. Product placements are
becoming popular because people are skipping commercials.




Brian

--
Day 256 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project

In article
>,
"Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr." > wrote:

> On Oct 15, 6:11*am, Cindy Hamilton >

> This is a reality show. Competitors are supposed to act REAL. If the
> sponsor were, say, Haagen Dasz, I can accept seeing world-class chefs
> cooing: "I love it!". But if it is total filth and the chefs are
> saying: "This is great!" - I know that this i sno longer reality, this
> is acting.
>
> That's what bothers me: the departure from REALITY.

Time to take a class: Television 101. Often, tv shows are the opposite
of what they say. Reality shows are designed to take you *away* from
reality. They have *nothing* to do with reality, other than make it a
lie.

And not only are the actors acting, they are often pretty bad actors.
That seems to be part of the attraction. Some of the viewers are
certainly thinking, "Hey, even *I* could do better that that!".

> > I'd say that television is the pimp and the viewer is the prostitute.
> >
>
> So, anybody, who watches TV of any form, is a prostitute?!

I don't agree. I think the executives, producers and directors are the
pimps, the actors (in this case cooks) are the prostitutes and the
viewers are the customers.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Oct 16, 8:19*am, Nancy2 > wrote:
> > It is product placement that irritates me. And not so much product
> > palcement, but the fact that the chefs had to lie to the camera how
> > much they "love" this crap.
>
> > This is a reality show. Competitors are supposed to act REAL. If the
> > sponsor were, say, Haagen Dasz, I can accept seeing world-class chefs
> > cooing: "I love it!". *But if it is total filth and the chefs are
> > saying: "This is great!" - I know that this i sno longer reality, this
> > is acting.
>
> > That's what bothers me: the departure from REALITY.
>
> The competitors have been eating those snacks in their temporary
> quarters - maybe they do "love them." *How do you know they don't?
>

How do you know that they have actually "been eating those snacks"
voluntarily? Were you there?

Can a great chef love greasy chips? Maybe. Juist as some great poet
like Joseph Brodsky can love the lyrics of the song "Push, push in the
bush!". But if I heard a Nobel laureal praise this song in his Nobel
acceptance speech, I would cry out: "This is product placement!"

On Oct 16, 9:14*am, "Default User" > wrote:
> Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr. wrote:
>
> > I don't mind commercials one bit. The producers need to get paid. I
> > fast forward through them anyway.
>
> > It is product placement that irritates me.
>
> Of course, these two things go hand in hand. Product placements are
> becoming popular because people are skipping commercials.
>

It is their constitutional right to spoil reality shows with whatever
crap and product placement they want. Just as my right to fight back
by criticising the crap products that they promote. If everybody
revolted like I do - soon there would be no more stupid product
placements of deceitful products that falsely claim to be "Made from
100% real vegetables". In fact, I hope somebody takes them to court
for their lying.

On Oct 16, 9:41*am, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *"Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr." > wrote:
>
> > On Oct 15, 6:11*am, Cindy Hamilton >
> > This is a reality show. Competitors are supposed to act REAL. If the
> > sponsor were, say, Haagen Dasz, I can accept seeing world-class chefs
> > cooing: "I love it!". *But if it is total filth and the chefs are
> > saying: "This is great!" - I know that this i sno longer reality, this
> > is acting.
>
> > That's what bothers me: the departure from REALITY.
>
> Time to take a class: *Television 101. *Often, tv shows are the opposite
> of what they say. *Reality shows are designed to take you *away* from
> reality. *They have *nothing* to do with reality, other than make it a
> lie.
>
> And not only are the actors acting, they are often pretty bad actors. *
> That seems to be part of the attraction. *Some of the viewers are
> certainly thinking, "Hey, even *I* could do better that that!".
>
> > > I'd say that television is the pimp and the viewer is the prostitute.
>
> > So, anybody, who watches TV of any form, is a prostitute?!
>
> I don't agree. *I think the executives, producers and directors are the
> pimps, the actors (in this case cooks) are the prostitutes and the
> viewers are the customers.
>

Dan, I agree with you. And that's what had made Top Chef different for
me: it seemed to be one of the few fairly realistic shows. I have
watched it for 3 years now, and this is the very first time I saw the
chefs "act".

In article
>,
"Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr." > wrote:


> Just as my right to fight back
> by criticising the crap products that they promote. If everybody
> revolted like I do - soon there would be no more stupid product

Have you thought about joining the war that Steve Wertz is waging? He
thinks that posting stuff on this group will make a difference.

> placements of deceitful products that falsely claim to be "Made from
> 100% real vegetables". In fact, I hope somebody takes them to court
> for their lying.

I think that would be a mistake, and would last about two minutes. They
would point to the official list of ingredients. Then they would claim
that all the vegetables in their junk food are 100% real, even though
vegetables are far down on the list. Then they would hold up a chip,
and say, quite reasonably, that no one could imagine that those were
100% vegetables, just that the vegetables in there were 100% real.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article
>,
"Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr." > wrote:

> On Oct 16, 9:41*am, Dan Abel > wrote:

> > I don't agree. *I think the executives, producers and directors are the
> > pimps, the actors (in this case cooks) are the prostitutes and the
> > viewers are the customers.
> >
>
> Dan, I agree with you. And that's what had made Top Chef different for
> me: it seemed to be one of the few fairly realistic shows. I have
> watched it for 3 years now, and this is the very first time I saw the
> chefs "act".

That's too bad. I have made it no secret on this group in the last few
weeks that I don't like "Chopped". My wife likes it, which is the only
reason I sometimes see it. I wasn't too keen on Iron Chef at first,
because it's pretty fake, but my daughter liked it, and so we watched it
together, and I gradually liked it. Well, somebody mentioned "Next Iron
Chef", and my wife and daughter were watching that in the last week.
The cooking part wasn't too bad, but the end was just like "Chopped".
They pulled in the chefs, one at a time, and grilled them, and then said
something like they could come back again. At the end, they brought in
the last three chefs, and made one the winner, and "chopped" one.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Oct 17, 10:26*am, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *"Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr." > wrote:
>
> > Just as my right to fight back
> > by criticising the crap products that they promote. If everybody
> > revolted like I do - soon there would be no more stupid product
>
> Have you thought about joining the war that Steve Wertz is waging? *He
> thinks that posting stuff on this group will make a difference.
>

I have no idea who he is, and I am pacifist anyway. The only war I am
interested in is "Restaurant Wars", which is nex on Top Chef
anyway. :-)

>
> > placements of deceitful products that falsely claim to be "Made from
> > 100% real vegetables". In fact, I hope somebody takes them to court
> > for their lying.
>
> I think that would be a mistake, and would last about two minutes. *They
> would point to the official list of ingredients. *Then they would claim
> that all the vegetables in their junk food are 100% real, even though
> vegetables are far down on the list. *Then they would hold up a chip,
> and say, quite reasonably, that no one could imagine that those were
> 100% vegetables, just that the vegetables in there were 100% real.
>

That's what I think too, but what is a vegetable which is NOT 100%
real? A surreal vegetable? An imaginary vegetable?

In article
>,
"Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr." > wrote:

> On Oct 17, 10:26*am, Dan Abel > wrote:

> > > placements of deceitful products that falsely claim to be "Made from
> > > 100% real vegetables". In fact, I hope somebody takes them to court
> > > for their lying.
> >
> > I think that would be a mistake, and would last about two minutes. *They
> > would point to the official list of ingredients. *Then they would claim
> > that all the vegetables in their junk food are 100% real, even though
> > vegetables are far down on the list. *Then they would hold up a chip,
> > and say, quite reasonably, that no one could imagine that those were
> > 100% vegetables, just that the vegetables in there were 100% real.
> >
>
> That's what I think too, but what is a vegetable which is NOT 100%
> real? A surreal vegetable? An imaginary vegetable?

I never claimed that it made 100% real sense.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Oct 16, 7:36*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
> wrote:

> I don't mind commercials one bit. The producers need to get paid. I
> fast forward through them anyway.
>
> It is product placement that irritates me. And not so much product
> palcement, but the fact that the chefs had to lie to the camera how
> much they "love" this crap.

Product placements are just another form of commercials.

> This is a reality show. Competitors are supposed to act REAL. If the
> sponsor were, say, Haagen Dasz, I can accept seeing world-class chefs
> cooing: "I love it!". *But if it is total filth and the chefs are
> saying: "This is great!" - I know that this i sno longer reality, this
> is acting.
>
> That's what bothers me: the departure from REALITY.

It's not reality; it's television. Reality is what happens when the
cameras
are not running.

Perhaps you should shut off your television and try some reality for a
change.

> > I'd say that television is the pimp and the viewer is the prostitute.
>
> So, anybody, who watches TV of any form, is a prostitute?!

Yep. The television network is selling your time to the sponsors.
Pretty much the pimp/hooker/john relationship.

Cindy Hamilton

In article
>,
Cindy Hamilton > wrote:

> On Oct 16, 7:36*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
> > wrote:
>
> > I don't mind commercials one bit. The producers need to get paid. I
> > fast forward through them anyway.
> >
> > It is product placement that irritates me. And not so much product
> > palcement, but the fact that the chefs had to lie to the camera how
> > much they "love" this crap.

If the chefs had participated in a recorded commercial, they just would
have had to lie there. What's the big difference?

> Product placements are just another form of commercials.
>
> > This is a reality show. Competitors are supposed to act REAL. If the
> > sponsor were, say, Haagen Dasz, I can accept seeing world-class chefs
> > cooing: "I love it!". *But if it is total filth and the chefs are
> > saying: "This is great!" - I know that this i sno longer reality, this
> > is acting.
> >
> > That's what bothers me: the departure from REALITY.
>
> It's not reality; it's television. Reality is what happens when the
> cameras
> are not running.
>
> Perhaps you should shut off your television and try some reality for a
> change.

For some people, tv *is* the reality. They are continually surprised
when they find that reality and tv aren't the same.

I've already given my rant about tv "reality" shows. There's a group on
the street corner, arguing about which way to go. Finally, at the very
last minute, they agree on a direction. When they get there, the
cameras are already set up and running, and the lights are on. Of
course, the cameras and lights aren't visible, after all, the group
*just* decided to go there, so having the cameras and lights visible
would give the lie to it.

On a cooking show, things are different. There are no surprises as to
where they are "going". Or are there? What about the "secret
ingredient" on Iron Chef? It's disclosed, and the participants run to
get their ingredients and equipment. Those fresh hibiscus flowers that
one contestant needs are right there in the fridge. They were picked
that morning in Mexico and flown 1000 miles to the studio. Just like
they ordered.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Oct 17, 10:34*am, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *"Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr." > wrote:
>
> > On Oct 16, 9:41*am, Dan Abel > wrote:
> > > I don't agree. *I think the executives, producers and directors are the
> > > pimps, the actors (in this case cooks) are the prostitutes and the
> > > viewers are the customers.
>
> > Dan, I agree with you. And that's what had made Top Chef different for
> > me: it seemed to be one of the few fairly realistic shows. I have
> > watched it for 3 years now, and this is the very first time I saw the
> > chefs "act".
>
> That's too bad. *I have made it no secret on this group in the last few
> weeks that I don't like "Chopped".
>

Neither do I.

>
>*My wife likes it, which is the only
> reason I sometimes see it. *I wasn't too keen on Iron Chef at first,
> because it's pretty fake, but my daughter liked it, and so we watched it
> together, and I gradually liked it. *Well, somebody mentioned "Next Iron
> Chef", and my wife and daughter were watching that in the last week. *
> The cooking part wasn't too bad, but the end was just like "Chopped". *
>


When I said:

>
> > this is the very first time I saw the
> > chefs "act".
>

I meant the chefs on "Top Chef". Other cooking competitions -
especially Hell's Kitchen - are full of actiung.

On Oct 19, 6:05*am, Cindy Hamilton >
wrote:
> On Oct 16, 7:36*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
>
> > wrote:
> > I don't mind commercials one bit. The producers need to get paid. I
> > fast forward through them anyway.
>
> > It is product placement that irritates me. And not so much product
> > palcement, but the fact that the chefs had to lie to the camera how
> > much they "love" this crap.
>
> Product placements are just another form of commercials.
>
> > This is a reality show. Competitors are supposed to act REAL. If the
> > sponsor were, say, Haagen Dasz, I can accept seeing world-class chefs
> > cooing: "I love it!". *But if it is total filth and the chefs are
> > saying: "This is great!" - I know that this i sno longer reality, this
> > is acting.
>
> > That's what bothers me: the departure from REALITY.
>
> It's not reality; it's television. *Reality is what happens when the
> cameras
> are not running.
>
> Perhaps you should shut off your television and try some reality for a
> change.
>
> > > I'd say that television is the pimp and the viewer is the prostitute.
>
> > So, anybody, who watches TV of any form, is a prostitute?!
>
> Yep. *The television network is selling your time to the sponsors.
> Pretty much the pimp/hooker/john relationship.
>

Cindy, do you ever google or use the Web in any form? Have you noticed
the ads all over most of the Web pages? For example, as I am posting
this article, I am using Google Groups and can see "sponsored links"
advertised to the right. Is this prostiitution? Are you also a
prostitute or do you never do web searches?

How about reading newspapers and magazines? Do you know that they too
have ads?

Do you listen to the radio while driving? Does that make you a
prostitute?

Do you watch PBS shows? Have you noticed how they start by advertising
their sponsors? Are PBS viewers - prostitutes?

How about me? I fast forward through ads. So, i am not a prostitute,
am I?

Do you go outside? Ride a subway or a bus? Do you see billboards
there? Is that also prostitution?

On Oct 19, 2:00*pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *Cindy Hamilton > wrote:
>
> > On Oct 16, 7:36*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
> > > wrote:
>
> > > I don't mind commercials one bit. The producers need to get paid. I
> > > fast forward through them anyway.
>
> > > It is product placement that irritates me. And not so much product
> > > palcement, but the fact that the chefs had to lie to the camera how
> > > much they "love" this crap.
>
> If the chefs had participated in a recorded commercial, they just would
> have had to lie there. *What's the big difference?
>
>
>
>
>
> > Product placements are just another form of commercials.
>
> > > This is a reality show. Competitors are supposed to act REAL. If the
> > > sponsor were, say, Haagen Dasz, I can accept seeing world-class chefs
> > > cooing: "I love it!". *But if it is total filth and the chefs are
> > > saying: "This is great!" - I know that this i sno longer reality, this
> > > is acting.
>
> > > That's what bothers me: the departure from REALITY.
>
> > It's not reality; it's television. *Reality is what happens when the
> > cameras
> > are not running.
>
> > Perhaps you should shut off your television and try some reality for a
> > change.
>
> For some people, tv *is* the reality. *They are continually surprised
> when they find that reality and tv aren't the same.
>
> I've already given my rant about tv "reality" shows. *There's a group on
> the street corner, arguing about which way to go. *Finally, at the very
> last minute, they agree on a direction. *When they get there, the
> cameras are already set up and running, and the lights are on. *Of
> course, the cameras and lights aren't visible, after all, the group
> *just* decided to go there, so having the cameras and lights visible
> would give the lie to it.
>
> On a cooking show, things are different. *There are no surprises as to
> where they are "going". *Or are there? *What about the "secret
> ingredient" on Iron Chef? *It's disclosed, and the participants run to
> get their ingredients and equipment. *Those fresh hibiscus flowers that
> one contestant needs are right there in the fridge. *They were picked
> that morning in Mexico and flown 1000 miles to the studio. *Just like
> they ordered.
>

To me, the funniest thing is how these chefs and their assistants
start making the 5 dishes immediately upon "hearing" the ingredient.
They don't stop even for a second to decide what eleborate dishes they
want to make and how. And the chefs don't even have to tell the
assistants about their dishes - they know from telepathy. :-)

On Oct 19, 2:00*pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *Cindy Hamilton > wrote:
>
> > On Oct 16, 7:36*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
> > > wrote:
>
> > > I don't mind commercials one bit. The producers need to get paid. I
> > > fast forward through them anyway.
>
> > > It is product placement that irritates me. And not so much product
> > > palcement, but the fact that the chefs had to lie to the camera how
> > > much they "love" this crap.
>
> If the chefs had participated in a recorded commercial, they just would
> have had to lie there. *What's the big difference?
>
>
>
>
>
> > Product placements are just another form of commercials.
>
> > > This is a reality show. Competitors are supposed to act REAL. If the
> > > sponsor were, say, Haagen Dasz, I can accept seeing world-class chefs
> > > cooing: "I love it!". *But if it is total filth and the chefs are
> > > saying: "This is great!" - I know that this i sno longer reality, this
> > > is acting.
>
> > > That's what bothers me: the departure from REALITY.
>
> > It's not reality; it's television. *Reality is what happens when the
> > cameras
> > are not running.
>
> > Perhaps you should shut off your television and try some reality for a
> > change.
>
> For some people, tv *is* the reality. *They are continually surprised
> when they find that reality and tv aren't the same.
>
> I've already given my rant about tv "reality" shows. *There's a group on
> the street corner, arguing about which way to go. *Finally, at the very
> last minute, they agree on a direction. *When they get there, the
> cameras are already set up and running, and the lights are on. *Of
> course, the cameras and lights aren't visible, after all, the group
> *just* decided to go there, so having the cameras and lights visible
> would give the lie to it.
>
> On a cooking show, things are different. *There are no surprises as to
> where they are "going". *Or are there? *What about the "secret
> ingredient" on Iron Chef? *It's disclosed, and the participants run to
> get their ingredients and equipment. *Those fresh hibiscus flowers that
> one contestant needs are right there in the fridge. *They were picked
> that morning in Mexico and flown 1000 miles to the studio. *Just like
> they ordered.
>

There is a famous Russian expression from 1960s describing how
"reality shows" on TV are all pre-rehearsed: "piano in the bushes":

http://www.mixx.com/stories/2879808/...rplexes_police
There is a russian expression "piano in the bushes" meaning something
that was planned but is said to have happened conveniently by
accident, like improv. It comes from a 1960-s short story, a parody
on TV interviews. The reporter picked a "random" guy on the park,
interviewed him, and and there just "happens" to be a clarinet in his
brief, so the "random" guy plays Polonaise on it. Then the "random"
guy says that there just "happens " to be a piano in the hedges near
by, so the "random" guy plays the same Polonaise on that piano. Every
russian knows the phrase "piano in the bushes".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigori_Gorin
Many of Gorin's aphorisms became popular among the Soviet people, e.
g. "piano in the bushes", which means painstaking preparations for a
would-be impromptu. [1] It comes from a humoresque called "Totally By
Coincidence" by Arkanov and Gorin, published in their 1966 book.

On Oct 20, 2:46*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
> wrote:

> Cindy, do you ever google or use the Web in any form? Have you noticed
> the ads all over most of the Web pages? For example, as I am posting
> this article, I am using Google Groups and can see "sponsored links"
> advertised to the right. *Is this prostiitution? *Are you also a
> prostitute or do you never do web searches?
>
> How about reading newspapers and magazines? Do you know that they too
> have ads?
>
> Do you listen to the radio while driving? Does that make you a
> prostitute?
>
> Do you watch PBS shows? Have you noticed how they start by advertising
> their sponsors? Are PBS viewers - prostitutes?
>
> How about me? I fast forward through ads. So, i am not a prostitute,
> am I?

Whether you give value for the money or not, the sponsor has paid for
the services of your eyes and brain.

> Do you go outside? Ride a subway or a bus? Do you see billboards
> there? Is that also prostitution?

Yep. For the most part, I'm a willing participant in the
transaction.
Of course, if I don't like the commercials, I skip them, too. I feel
no particular obligation to give the sponsor any value for his money.

You (and you alone) seem to have some hangup about the "prostitute"
metaphor.

Cindy Hamilton

On Oct 20, 1:52*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
> wrote:
> On Oct 19, 2:00*pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > >,
> > *Cindy Hamilton > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 16, 7:36*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > I don't mind commercials one bit. The producers need to get paid. I
> > > > fast forward through them anyway.
>
> > > > It is product placement that irritates me. And not so much product
> > > > palcement, but the fact that the chefs had to lie to the camera how
> > > > much they "love" this crap.
>
> > If the chefs had participated in a recorded commercial, they just would
> > have had to lie there. *What's the big difference?
>
> > > Product placements are just another form of commercials.
>
> > > > This is a reality show. Competitors are supposed to act REAL. If the
> > > > sponsor were, say, Haagen Dasz, I can accept seeing world-class chefs
> > > > cooing: "I love it!". *But if it is total filth and the chefs are
> > > > saying: "This is great!" - I know that this i sno longer reality, this
> > > > is acting.
>
> > > > That's what bothers me: the departure from REALITY.
>
> > > It's not reality; it's television. *Reality is what happens when the
> > > cameras
> > > are not running.
>
> > > Perhaps you should shut off your television and try some reality for a
> > > change.
>
> > For some people, tv *is* the reality. *They are continually surprised
> > when they find that reality and tv aren't the same.
>
> > I've already given my rant about tv "reality" shows. *There's a group on
> > the street corner, arguing about which way to go. *Finally, at the very
> > last minute, they agree on a direction. *When they get there, the
> > cameras are already set up and running, and the lights are on. *Of
> > course, the cameras and lights aren't visible, after all, the group
> > *just* decided to go there, so having the cameras and lights visible
> > would give the lie to it.
>
> > On a cooking show, things are different. *There are no surprises as to
> > where they are "going". *Or are there? *What about the "secret
> > ingredient" on Iron Chef? *It's disclosed, and the participants run to
> > get their ingredients and equipment. *Those fresh hibiscus flowers that
> > one contestant needs are right there in the fridge. *They were picked
> > that morning in Mexico and flown 1000 miles to the studio. *Just like
> > they ordered.
>
> To me, the funniest thing is how these chefs and their assistants
> start making the 5 dishes immediately upon "hearing" the ingredient.
> They don't stop even for a second to decide what eleborate dishes they
> want to make and how. And the chefs don't even have to tell the
> assistants about their dishes - they know from telepathy. :-)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You really should watch more before you criticize. It has been
explained before that the chefs are told two (I think it's two)
"secret ingredient" possibilities before hand, so they know that one
or the other will be the secret ingredient. They then plan their
dishes for both possibilities, and make sure the producers know what
they need to have on hand, including not only ingredients, but also
table settings, serving dishes, etc. Of course, they don't decide on
the spot by ESP!The next time the "behind the scenes" program comes
along, watch it and learn.

N.

In article
>,
"Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr." > wrote:

> On Oct 19, 6:05*am, Cindy Hamilton >
> wrote:

> > Product placements are just another form of commercials.
> >

> > Yep. *The television network is selling your time to the sponsors.
> > Pretty much the pimp/hooker/john relationship.
> >
>
> Cindy, do you ever google or use the Web in any form?

> Is this prostiitution? Are you also a
> prostitute or do you never do web searches?

Don't know about Cindy, but I got Ad Blocker Plus for Firefox.

> How about reading newspapers and magazines? Do you know that they too
> have ads?

Sometimes I read the ads on purpose.

> Do you listen to the radio while driving? Does that make you a
> prostitute?

I only listen to the radio on long drives by myself.

> Do you watch PBS shows? Have you noticed how they start by advertising
> their sponsors? Are PBS viewers - prostitutes?

Yup.

> How about me? I fast forward through ads. So, i am not a prostitute,
> am I?

Only if you don't watch those nasty product placements.

:-)

> Do you go outside? Ride a subway or a bus? Do you see billboards
> there? Is that also prostitution?

I pretty much tune them out. I honestly couldn't tell you which lines
have them and which don't.

You forgot movies. It's been over two decades since I've been to a
movie theater. I'm not about to pay lots of money to watch ads.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article
>,
"Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr." > wrote:

> On Oct 17, 10:34*am, Dan Abel > wrote:

> > > this is the very first time I saw the
> > > chefs "act".
> >
>
> I meant the chefs on "Top Chef". Other cooking competitions -
> especially Hell's Kitchen - are full of actiung.

I understood the context.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article
>,
Nancy2 > wrote:

> On Oct 20, 1:52*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
> > wrote:
> > On Oct 19, 2:00*pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> >

> > > On a cooking show, things are different. *There are no surprises as to
> > > where they are "going". *Or are there? *What about the "secret
> > > ingredient" on Iron Chef? *It's disclosed, and the participants run to
> > > get their ingredients and equipment. *Those fresh hibiscus flowers that
> > > one contestant needs are right there in the fridge. *They were picked
> > > that morning in Mexico and flown 1000 miles to the studio. *Just like
> > > they ordered.
> >
> > To me, the funniest thing is how these chefs and their assistants
> > start making the 5 dishes immediately upon "hearing" the ingredient.
> > They don't stop even for a second to decide what eleborate dishes they
> > want to make and how. And the chefs don't even have to tell the
> > assistants about their dishes - they know from telepathy. :-)- Hide quoted
> > text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> You really should watch more before you criticize. It has been
> explained before that the chefs are told two (I think it's two)
> "secret ingredient" possibilities before hand, so they know that one
> or the other will be the secret ingredient. They then plan their
> dishes for both possibilities, and make sure the producers know what
> they need to have on hand, including not only ingredients, but also
> table settings, serving dishes, etc. Of course, they don't decide on
> the spot by ESP!The next time the "behind the scenes" program comes
> along, watch it and learn.

It was really more of an observation than a criticism, at least on my
part. Watching most forms of entertainment, even live, involves some
suspension of belief. When it's tv or a movie, there's a lot. With
something live, it's in some kind of real time. For tv/movie, the
timing and order of what appears is not necessarily the way it happened.

I hope to catch the "behind the scenes" episode of Iron Chef at some
point.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Oct 20, 6:08Â*am, Cindy Hamilton >
wrote:
> On Oct 20, 2:46Â*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > Cindy, do you ever google or use the Web in any form? Have you noticed
> > the ads all over most of the Web pages? For example, as I am posting
> > this article, I am using Google Groups and can see "sponsored links"
> > advertised to the right. Â*Is this prostiitution? Â*Are you also a
> > prostitute or do you never do web searches?
>
> > How about reading newspapers and magazines? Do you know that they too
> > have ads?
>
> > Do you listen to the radio while driving? Does that make you a
> > prostitute?
>
> > Do you watch PBS shows? Have you noticed how they start by advertising
> > their sponsors? Are PBS viewers - prostitutes?
>
> > How about me? I fast forward through ads. So, i am not a prostitute,
> > am I?
>
> Whether you give value for the money or not, the sponsor has paid for
> the services of your eyes and brain.
>
> > Do you go outside? Ride a subway or a bus? Do you see billboards
> > there? Is that also prostitution?
>
> Yep. Â*For the most part, I'm a willing participant in the
> transaction.
> Of course, if I don't like the commercials, I skip them, too. Â*I feel
> no particular obligation to give the sponsor any value for his money.
>
> You (and you alone) seem to have some hangup about the "prostitute"
> metaphor.
>


Look, Cindy, my real hangup is that I despise junk food and false and
misleading advertising. Any product with 20 ingredient list like:

Ingredients: Wheat Flour, High Oleic Canola Oil, Corn Flour, Modified
Food Starch, Spanish Onions, Cornstarch, Distilled Vinegar, Egg White
Solids, Jalape�o Pepper Powder, Malted Barley Flour, Maltodextrin,
Salt, Spice, Sugar.

is crap. And when it claims that these ingredients are "Made from 100%
real vegetables€� - that's a lie. Pure and simple. And I hate liars..

If this product is "Made from 100% real vegetables€�, then name me a
product that isn't.

My other purpose for posting the original article was to start a
discussion of Top Chef and other cooking competition programs, which I
have accomplished.

I don't understand why you guys have attacked me and defended these
chips. Am I intruding on the "in-crowd" here or sometheing? I assure
oyu that I know quite a lot about food and can contribute quite well.

On Oct 20, 6:00*pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *"Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr." > wrote:
>
> > On Oct 19, 6:05*am, Cindy Hamilton >
> > wrote:
> > > Product placements are just another form of commercials.
>
> > > Yep. *The television network is selling your time to the sponsors.
> > > Pretty much the pimp/hooker/john relationship.
>
> > Cindy, do you ever google or use the Web in any form?
> > Is this prostiitution? *Are you also a
> > prostitute or do you never do web searches?
>
> Don't know about Cindy, but I got Ad Blocker Plus for Firefox.
>
> > How about reading newspapers and magazines? Do you know that they too
> > have ads?
>
> Sometimes I read the ads on purpose.
>
> > Do you listen to the radio while driving? Does that make you a
> > prostitute?
>
> I only listen to the radio on long drives by myself.
>
> > Do you watch PBS shows? Have you noticed how they start by advertising
> > their sponsors? Are PBS viewers - prostitutes?
>
> Yup.
>
> > How about me? I fast forward through ads. So, i am not a prostitute,
> > am I?
>
> Only if you don't watch those nasty product placements.
>
> :-)
>

A woman comes to a police station and says:
- I want to report a rape.
- When were you raped?
- Five days ago.
- Why did you wait so long to report?
- I didn't know I have been raped until the check bounced.

>
> > Do you go outside? Ride a subway or a bus? Do you see billboards
> > there? Is that also prostitution?
>
> I pretty much tune them out. *I honestly couldn't tell you which lines
> have them and which don't.
>
> You forgot movies. *It's been over two decades since I've been to a
> movie theater. *I'm not about to pay lots of money to watch ads.
>

What do you do when you go out?

In article
>,
"Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr." > wrote:

> On Oct 20, 6:00*pm, Dan Abel > wrote:

> > You forgot movies. *It's been over two decades since I've been to a
> > movie theater. *I'm not about to pay lots of money to watch ads.
> >
>
> What do you do when you go out?

Mostly walk. And I like quiet walks.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Oct 21, 1:12Â*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
> wrote:

> Look, Cindy, my real hangup is that I despise junk food and false and
> misleading advertising. Any product with 20 ingredient list like:
>
> Ingredients: Â*Wheat Flour, High Oleic Canola Oil, Corn Flour, Modified
> Food Starch, Spanish Onions, Cornstarch, Distilled Vinegar, Egg White
> Solids, Jalape�o Pepper Powder, Malted Barley Flour, Maltodextrin,
> Salt, Spice, Sugar.

Really? Most of those ingredients are in my kitchen. Granted, I
don't
have any use for "egg white solids", but I don't make shelf-stable
snacks,
either. I don't have a problem with dehydrated eggs, as long as the
mess
hall isn't trying to serve them to me scrambled.

> is crap. And when it claims that these ingredients are "Made from 100%
> real vegetables€� Â*- that's a lie. Pure and simple. And I hate liars.

So, which ingredients aren't made from vegetables? Oh, egg white
solids.
Well, you've got them there. Well spotted.

> If this product is "Made from 100% real vegetables€�, then name me a
> product that isn't.
>
> My other purpose for posting the original article was to start a
> discussion of Top Chef and other cooking competition programs, which I
> have accomplished.
>
> I don't understand why you guys have attacked me and defended these
> chips. Am I intruding on the "in-crowd" here or sometheing? I assure
> oyu that I know quite a lot about food and can contribute quite well.

Well, actually, I've tried the chips, and they were quite good--
although the
better for a minute or two in the toaster oven.

If you interpreted what we've said as an attack, then you're far too
thin-skinned
for Usenet. Most comments have been downright mild.

I, at least, think you're naive about television. There's nothing
real about any
of the images that come out of the box. It's all very carefully
orchestrated.
Expecting reality from reality tv is to ignore everything that
television is.

Maybe you should stick to talking about food.

Cindy Hamilton

On Oct 22, 6:23Â*am, Cindy Hamilton >
wrote:
> On Oct 21, 1:12Â*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
>
> > wrote:
> > Look, Cindy, my real hangup is that I despise junk food and false and
> > misleading advertising. Any product with 20 ingredient list like:
>
> > Ingredients: Â*Wheat Flour, High Oleic Canola Oil, Corn Flour, Modified
> > Food Starch, Spanish Onions, Cornstarch, Distilled Vinegar, Egg White
> > Solids, Jalape�o Pepper Powder, Malted Barley Flour, Maltodextrin,
> > Salt, Spice, Sugar.
>
> Really? Â*Most of those ingredients are in my kitchen. Â*
>

Cindy,

I am a little confused here. Do you **really** think that the
universal definition of a "vegetable" is: "something that can be found
in Cindy Hamilton's kitchen"? How did people define this term before
you were born?

>
> Granted, I don't
> have any use for "egg white solids", but I don't make shelf-stable
> snacks,
> either. Â*I don't have a problem with dehydrated eggs, as long as the
> mess
> hall isn't trying to serve them to me scrambled.
>

How does that prove that Alexia is 100% vegetable?

>
> > is crap. And when it claims that these ingredients are "Made from 100%
> > real vegetables€� Â*- that's a lie. Pure and simple. And I hate liars.
>
> So, which ingredients aren't made from vegetables? Â*
>

Wheat Flour, High Corn Flour, Modified Food Starch, Cornstarch,
Distilled Vinegar, Egg White Solids, Malted Barley Flour,
Maltodextrin, Salt.

See for example:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_corn_a_...ble_or_a_fruit.
Corn is a Grain and is commonly misclassified as a vegetable. If it
comes from the reproductive part of the plant, it's a fruit. If it
comes from the vegetative part of the plant, it's a vegetable."
Botanically speaking, corn is a caryopsis, or dry fruit - popularly
known as a grain.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...0131642AAxWguo
Capsicum annuum, in the Solanoideae subgroup of Solanaceae with
tomatoes, is a simple fleshy fruit.
It is a fruit. Anything that has seeds inside - it is a fruit. This
includes strange things like walnuts, peppers, coconuts, and
stringbeans. The only real vegetables are roots (e.g., carrots), stems
(e.g., celery), or leaves (like spinach).
--------------

You seem to be saying that anything that comes from a plant, is a
vegetable. But that's hardly what the word "vegetable" means. If you
call wheat bread, a mango or a coconut "a vegetable" - people will
look at you in surprise.

If they wanted to use a correct label, they could advertise:

"Our product is made mostly of empty carbohydrate calories (starches
and sugar) and fat (oil). This product is made 100% from plants, if
you don't count eggs. This product is made 100% from vegetables if
you don't count Wheat Flour, High Corn Flour, Modified Food Starch,
Cornstarch, Distilled Vinegar, Egg White Solids, Malted Barley Flour,
Maltodextrin, and Salt. Very little comes from vegetables. However,
those few vegetables that we use - they come from vegetables.
Similarly, eggs come from eggs, corn products come from corn, and
Wheat Flour comes from wheat".

Now that would be a perfect description, wouldn't it?

>
> Oh, egg white
> solids.
> Well, you've got them there. Â*Well spotted.
>
> > If this product is "Made from 100% real vegetables€�, then name me a
> > product that isn't.
>

On Oct 25, 5:19Â*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
> wrote:
> On Oct 22, 6:23Â*am, Cindy Hamilton >
> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 21, 1:12Â*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
>
> > > wrote:
> > > Look, Cindy, my real hangup is that I despise junk food and false and
> > > misleading advertising. Any product with 20 ingredient list like:
>
> > > Ingredients: Â*Wheat Flour, High Oleic Canola Oil, Corn Flour, Modified
> > > Food Starch, Spanish Onions, Cornstarch, Distilled Vinegar, Egg White
> > > Solids, Jalape�o Pepper Powder, Malted Barley Flour, Maltodextrin,
> > > Salt, Spice, Sugar.
>
> > Really? Â*Most of those ingredients are in my kitchen. Â*
>
> Cindy,
>
> I am a little confused here. Do you **really** think that the
> universal definition of a "vegetable" is: "something that can be found
> in Cindy Hamilton's kitchen"? How did people define this term before
> you were born?

We have two issues he

1. Are the ingredients vegetable in nature? Except for the egg
whites and
salt, yes. They're sure as hell not animal.

2. Do the 20 ingredients make it crap? That's where "most of those
ingredients
are in my kitchen" comes into play. If I set out to make the same
snack
food in my own kitchen, I probably would use 11 of those 20
ingredients. I'm not
and industrial food producer; I don't need those other 9 ingredients.

>
>
> > Granted, I don't
> > have any use for "egg white solids", but I don't make shelf-stable
> > snacks,
> > either. Â*I don't have a problem with dehydrated eggs, as long as the
> > mess
> > hall isn't trying to serve them to me scrambled.
>
> How does that prove that Alexia is 100% vegetable?

They don't say "100% vegetable"; they say "Made from 100%
real vegetables€�, unless you are mistaken about the wording
on the package.

The claim is not that the product is 100% vegetable, it's that the
vegetables in it are 100% real. Is English your primary language?

> > > is crap. And when it claims that these ingredients are "Made from 100%
> > > real vegetables€� Â*- that's a lie. Pure and simple. And I hate liars.
>
> > So, which ingredients aren't made from vegetables? Â*
>
> Wheat Flour, High Corn Flour, Modified Food Starch, Cornstarch,
> Distilled Vinegar, Egg White Solids, Malted Barley Flour,
> Maltodextrin, Salt.
>
> See for example:
>
> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_corn_a_...ble_or_a_fruit.
> Corn is a Grain and is commonly misclassified as a vegetable. If it
> comes from the reproductive part of the plant, it's a fruit. If it
> comes from the vegetative part of the plant, it's a vegetable."
> Botanically speaking, corn is a caryopsis, or dry fruit - popularly
> known as a grain.
>
> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...0131642AAxWguo
> Capsicum annuum, in the Solanoideae subgroup of Solanaceae with
> tomatoes, is a simple fleshy fruit.
> It is a fruit. Anything that has seeds inside - it is a fruit. This
> includes strange things like walnuts, peppers, coconuts, and
> stringbeans. The only real vegetables are roots (e.g., carrots), stems
> (e.g., celery), or leaves (like spinach).
> --------------
>
> You seem to be saying that anything that comes from a plant, is a
> vegetable. But that's hardly what the word "vegetable" means. If you
> call wheat bread, a mango or a coconut "a vegetable" - people will
> look at you in surprise.

You're an asshole. I think we're done here.

Cindy Hamilton

On Oct 26, 6:19Â*am, Cindy Hamilton >
wrote:
> On Oct 25, 5:19Â*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > On Oct 22, 6:23Â*am, Cindy Hamilton >
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 21, 1:12Â*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > Look, Cindy, my real hangup is that I despise junk food and false and
> > > > misleading advertising. Any product with 20 ingredient list like:
>
> > > > Ingredients: Â*Wheat Flour, High Oleic Canola Oil, Corn Flour, Modified
> > > > Food Starch, Spanish Onions, Cornstarch, Distilled Vinegar, Egg White
> > > > Solids, Jalape�o Pepper Powder, Malted Barley Flour, Maltodextrin,
> > > > Salt, Spice, Sugar.
>
> > > Really? Â*Most of those ingredients are in my kitchen. Â*
>
> > Cindy,
>
> > I am a little confused here. Do you **really** think that the
> > universal definition of a "vegetable" is: "something that can be found
> > in Cindy Hamilton's kitchen"? How did people define this term before
> > you were born?
>
> We have two Â*issues he
>
> 1. Â*Are the ingredients vegetable in nature? Â*Except for the egg
> whites and
> salt, yes. Â*They're sure as hell not animal.
>

You think that "vegetable" means "not meat". This is false. Fruits and
grains are neither vegetables nor animals.

>
>
> > > Granted, I don't
> > > have any use for "egg white solids", but I don't make shelf-stable
> > > snacks,
> > > either. Â*I don't have a problem with dehydrated eggs, as long as the
> > > mess
> > > hall isn't trying to serve them to me scrambled.
>
> > How does that prove that Alexia is 100% vegetable?
>
> They don't say "100% vegetable"; they say "Made from 100%
> real vegetables€�, unless you are mistaken about the wording
> on the package.
>

So? Grains, fruits and eggs are NOT "100% real vegetables".

>
> The claim is not that the product is 100% vegetable, it's that the
> vegetables in it are 100% real. Â*Is English your primary language?
>

No. So, please educate me, oh the expert on the English language. How
can vegetables not be REAL? If a vegetable is not real - then what is
it? Imaginable? Surreal? Fictional?

Please give me an example of a vegetable that is not real.

On Oct 28, 3:27Â*pm, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
> wrote:
> On Oct 26, 6:19Â*am, Cindy Hamilton >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 25, 5:19Â*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
>
> > > wrote:
> > > On Oct 22, 6:23Â*am, Cindy Hamilton >
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 21, 1:12Â*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > Look, Cindy, my real hangup is that I despise junk food and false and
> > > > > misleading advertising. Any product with 20 ingredient list like:
>
> > > > > Ingredients: Â*Wheat Flour, High Oleic Canola Oil, Corn Flour, Modified
> > > > > Food Starch, Spanish Onions, Cornstarch, Distilled Vinegar, Egg White
> > > > > Solids, Jalape�o Pepper Powder, Malted Barley Flour, Maltodextrin,
> > > > > Salt, Spice, Sugar.
>
> > > > Really? Â*Most of those ingredients are in my kitchen. Â*
>
> > > Cindy,
>
> > > I am a little confused here. Do you **really** think that the
> > > universal definition of a "vegetable" is: "something that can be found
> > > in Cindy Hamilton's kitchen"? How did people define this term before
> > > you were born?
>
> > We have two Â*issues he
>
> > 1. Â*Are the ingredients vegetable in nature? Â*Except for the egg
> > whites and
> > salt, yes. Â*They're sure as hell not animal.
>
> You think that "vegetable" means "not meat". This is false. Fruits and
> grains are neither vegetables nor animals.
>
>
>
> > > > Granted, I don't
> > > > have any use for "egg white solids", but I don't make shelf-stable
> > > > snacks,
> > > > either. Â*I don't have a problem with dehydrated eggs, as long as the
> > > > mess
> > > > hall isn't trying to serve them to me scrambled.
>
> > > How does that prove that Alexia is 100% vegetable?
>
> > They don't say "100% vegetable"; they say "Made from 100%
> > real vegetables€�, unless you are mistaken about the wording
> > on the package.
>
> So? Grains, fruits and eggs are NOT "100% real vegetables".
>
>
>
> > The claim is not that the product is 100% vegetable, it's that the
> > vegetables in it are 100% real. Â*Is English your primary language?
>
> No. So, please educate me, oh the expert on the English language. How
> can vegetables not be REAL? If a vegetable is not real - then what is
> it? Imaginable? Surreal? Fictional?
>
> Please give me an example of a vegetable that is not real.
>

Sorry, Cindy, I just realised that you have been irritated with me
saying that "vegetable" doersn't mean "not meat" because you want to
cut down the expence of having to feed poor children with real
vegetables by replacing vegetables with junk food:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchup_as_a_vegetable

Ketchup as a vegetable

The ketchup as a vegetable controversy or ketchupgate refers to a
proposed United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) Food and Drug
Administration directive, early in the administration of Ronald
Reagan, that would have reclassified ketchup and pickle relish from
condiments to a vegetable, allowing public schools to cut out a
serving of cooked or fresh vegetable from hot lunch program child-
nutrition requirements. The White House Office of Management and
Budget estimated a potential US $1 billion annual savings in the cost
of subsidized meals for low-income students.

Release of the proposed directive for required public comment in
September 1981 met with outrage from nutritionists and Democrats.
Charges of greed and indifference were made by media and pundits. The
administration responded their concern was to address "plate waste"
and to serve what students would actually consume.

In reporting on the proposed directive Newsweek magazine illustrated
their story with a bottle of ketchup with the caption "now a
vegetable." The proposed directive was criticized by Democrats and
Republicans alike, and was never implemented.[1]

---------------------

Ketchup IS a vegetable in your book isn't it?

On Oct 26, 6:19Â*am, Cindy Hamilton >
wrote:
> On Oct 25, 5:19Â*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > On Oct 22, 6:23Â*am, Cindy Hamilton >
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 21, 1:12Â*am, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > Look, Cindy, my real hangup is that I despise junk food and false and
> > > > misleading advertising. Any product with 20 ingredient list like:
>
> > > > Ingredients: Â*Wheat Flour, High Oleic Canola Oil, Corn Flour, Modified
> > > > Food Starch, Spanish Onions, Cornstarch, Distilled Vinegar, Egg White
> > > > Solids, Jalape�o Pepper Powder, Malted Barley Flour, Maltodextrin,
> > > > Salt, Spice, Sugar.
>
> > > Really? Â*Most of those ingredients are in my kitchen. Â*
>
> > Cindy,
>
> > I am a little confused here. Do you **really** think that the
> > universal definition of a "vegetable" is: "something that can be found
> > in Cindy Hamilton's kitchen"? How did people define this term before
> > you were born?
>
> We have two Â*issues he
>
> 1. Â*Are the ingredients vegetable in nature? Â*Except for the egg
> whites and
> salt, yes. Â*They're sure as hell not animal.
>
> 2. Â*Do the 20 ingredients make it crap? Â*That's where "most of those
> ingredients
> are in my kitchen" comes into play. Â*If I set out to make the same
> snack
> food in my own kitchen, I probably would use 11 of those 20
> ingredients. Â*I'm not
> and industrial food producer; I don't need those other 9 ingredients.
>
>
>
> > > Granted, I don't
> > > have any use for "egg white solids", but I don't make shelf-stable
> > > snacks,
> > > either. Â*I don't have a problem with dehydrated eggs, as long as the
> > > mess
> > > hall isn't trying to serve them to me scrambled.
>
> > How does that prove that Alexia is 100% vegetable?
>
> They don't say "100% vegetable"; they say "Made from 100%
> real vegetables€�, unless you are mistaken about the wording
> on the package.
>
> The claim is not that the product is 100% vegetable, it's that the
> vegetables in it are 100% real. Â*Is English your primary language?
>

So, if I take dirt from my backyard, mixed it with a little sugar,
starch, coconut oil and eggs - I can sell this concoction claiming
that it is ""Made from 100% real vegetables€�?

>
> > > > is crap. And when it claims that these ingredients are "Made from 100%
> > > > real vegetables€� Â*- that's a lie. Pure and simple. And I hate liars.
>
> > > So, which ingredients aren't made from vegetables? Â*
>
> > Wheat Flour, High Corn Flour, Modified Food Starch, Cornstarch,
> > Distilled Vinegar, Egg White Solids, Malted Barley Flour,
> > Maltodextrin, Salt.
>
> > See for example:
>
> >http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_corn_a_...ble_or_a_fruit.
> > Corn is a Grain and is commonly misclassified as a vegetable. If it
> > comes from the reproductive part of the plant, it's a fruit. If it
> > comes from the vegetative part of the plant, it's a vegetable."
> > Botanically speaking, corn is a caryopsis, or dry fruit - popularly
> > known as a grain.
>
> >http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...0131642AAxWguo
> > Capsicum annuum, in the Solanoideae subgroup of Solanaceae with
> > tomatoes, is a simple fleshy fruit.
> > It is a fruit. Anything that has seeds inside - it is a fruit. This
> > includes strange things like walnuts, peppers, coconuts, and
> > stringbeans. The only real vegetables are roots (e.g., carrots), stems
> > (e.g., celery), or leaves (like spinach).
> > --------------
>
> > You seem to be saying that anything that comes from a plant, is a
> > vegetable. But that's hardly what the word "vegetable" means. If you
> > call wheat bread, a mango or a coconut "a vegetable" - people will
> > look at you in surprise.
>
> You're an asshole.
>

In terms of intelligence, you are a certifiable 100% vegetable,
Cindy.