I tried to find it online, but no luck. There was a call for people
to write in to the restaurant critic of my local paper asking for
opinions on what offends them ... well, I'll just key in the first
paragraph:

"Listen, you guys, enough already. And that includes me. I never
thought, not once, when I asked readers and restaurant employees a
couple of months back to talk about matters of service that so many
folks would be offended by a casual expression used by servers in
addressing diners at restaurants: "What can I get you guys?"

Well, you know I just laughed out loud. She went on to describe how
she almost was fired when she was young and waited in in restaurant
in the south when she said, "Hello, can I get you guys something to
drink?"

Other random complaints people submitted (and a disclaimer, I did
NOT contribute):

"Gosh, am I glad I am not the only on who drops jaw when asked, before
I've taken one bite of food!, if I'd like ground pepper with my
salad ..." then says "I'm sure the chef has seasoned the food
properly."

Some contributer said "It's as unnecessary as saying "Hi, I'm Barby,
and I will be your server tonight." Am I expected to offer my name
in exchange?""

Oh, then a comment about servers saying "And who gets the fish?"

Being asked "how is everything" as diners are chewing away. "Unless
a server wants to be responsible for provoking a choking incident,
both servers and diners agree it's best to watch at a discreet
distance to see if a patron is in need of assistance."

Next, "How many times have you wished that the server took away the
unneeded clutter on the table?"

Then, "Remember, unfortunately, that good service doesn't always mean
a good tip, nor does poor service equate to a bad one."

From Andrea Clurfeld's column in the Asbury Park Press. Sunday, Nov 2.

Thought you guys would get a laugh how we all just went over this.

(laugh) nancy

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:36:16 -0500, Nancy Young
> wrote:

>
>I tried to find it online, but no luck. There was a call for people
>to write in to the restaurant critic of my local paper asking for
>opinions on what offends them ... well, I'll just key in the first
>paragraph:
>
>"Listen, you guys, enough already. And that includes me. I never
>thought, not once, when I asked readers and restaurant employees a
>couple of months back to talk about matters of service that so many
>folks would be offended by a casual expression used by servers in
>addressing diners at restaurants: "What can I get you guys?"

You hit a nerve. I'm a part-time grammar cop, and "guy/guys" drives me
up the wall. I've been protesting to local media for some time that
terms such as "victim", "suspect", "man," "young man," etc. are more
appropriate for professional journalism. Not to mention "you guys"
becoming gender-neutral. Oddly, one news director I spoke to thought
"guy" was perfectly OK, but was horrified to find one of his reporters
had refererred to a young college woman as a "girl." In fact, the
"girl" had been attacked by a "guy" who ran into the woods. Babe,
dude, chick, brother, are only a heartbeat away.

Frogleg wrote:
>
> On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:36:16 -0500, Nancy Young

> >I tried to find it online, but no luck. There was a call for people
> >to write in to the restaurant critic of my local paper asking for
> >opinions on what offends them ... well, I'll just key in the first
> >paragraph:
> >
> >"Listen, you guys, enough already. And that includes me. I never
> >thought, not once, when I asked readers and restaurant employees a
> >couple of months back to talk about matters of service that so many
> >folks would be offended by a casual expression used by servers in
> >addressing diners at restaurants: "What can I get you guys?"
>
> You hit a nerve. I'm a part-time grammar cop, and "guy/guys" drives me
> up the wall.

I think it's a regional/generational thing. I wouldn't think twice
about asking my female friends, you guys want to go out for lunch?
Doesn't offend me in the least if a waiter/bartender refers to me as
such. Having said that, "What can I get you?" does seem to suffice.

> I've been protesting to local media for some time that
> terms such as "victim", "suspect", "man," "young man," etc. are more
> appropriate for professional journalism. Not to mention "you guys"
> becoming gender-neutral.

It's not 'becoming' where I live, as I've mentioned. It is.

nancy

"Frogleg" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:36:16 -0500, Nancy Young
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >I tried to find it online, but no luck. There was a call for people
> >to write in to the restaurant critic of my local paper asking for
> >opinions on what offends them ... well, I'll just key in the first
> >paragraph:
> >
> >"Listen, you guys, enough already. And that includes me. I never
> >thought, not once, when I asked readers and restaurant employees a
> >couple of months back to talk about matters of service that so many
> >folks would be offended by a casual expression used by servers in
> >addressing diners at restaurants: "What can I get you guys?"
>
> You hit a nerve. I'm a part-time grammar cop, and "guy/guys" drives me
> up the wall. I've been protesting to local media for some time that
> terms such as "victim", "suspect", "man," "young man," etc. are more
> appropriate for professional journalism. Not to mention "you guys"
> becoming gender-neutral. Oddly, one news director I spoke to thought
> "guy" was perfectly OK, but was horrified to find one of his reporters
> had refererred to a young college woman as a "girl." In fact, the
> "girl" had been attacked by a "guy" who ran into the woods. Babe,
> dude, chick, brother, are only a heartbeat away.

Sup wit yo? Dissin street talk?

Jack Cube

Was being called "honey" on the list? If not, I think it should have been!

--
Sylvia Steiger RN, homeschooling mom since Nov 1995
http://www.SteigerFamily.com
Cheyenne WY, USDA zone 5a, Sunset zone 1a
Home of the Wyoming Wind Festival, January 1-December 31
Remove "removethis" from address to reply

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:51:47 GMT, Frogleg > wrote:

>On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:36:16 -0500, Nancy Young
> wrote:
>
>>
>>I tried to find it online, but no luck. There was a call for people
>>to write in to the restaurant critic of my local paper asking for
>>opinions on what offends them ... well, I'll just key in the first
>>paragraph:
>>
>>"Listen, you guys, enough already. And that includes me. I never
>>thought, not once, when I asked readers and restaurant employees a
>>couple of months back to talk about matters of service that so many
>>folks would be offended by a casual expression used by servers in
>>addressing diners at restaurants: "What can I get you guys?"
>
>You hit a nerve. I'm a part-time grammar cop, and "guy/guys" drives me
>up the wall. I've been protesting to local media for some time that
>terms such as "victim", "suspect", "man," "young man," etc. are more
>appropriate for professional journalism. Not to mention "you guys"
>becoming gender-neutral. Oddly, one news director I spoke to thought
>"guy" was perfectly OK, but was horrified to find one of his reporters
>had refererred to a young college woman as a "girl." In fact, the
>"girl" had been attacked by a "guy" who ran into the woods. Babe,
>dude, chick, brother, are only a heartbeat away.

"The Old Guard dies, but it never surrenders."

......Alan. :-)


--
Curiosity killed the cat -
lack of it is killing mankind.

I fancy myself a part-time grammar cop as well, and for reasons I can't
explain, I rather like the informal and gender neutral use of "guys."
In the examples you gave for news reporting, I agree that victim,
suspect and man would be better, but for informal everyday speech,
"guys" has an un-stodgy air that suits me. At work, I like being the
woman in charge. At lunch, I like being just one of the guys.

--Lia


Frogleg wrote:

> You hit a nerve. I'm a part-time grammar cop, and "guy/guys" drives me
> up the wall.

(A.T. Hagan) wrote in
:

> "The Old Guard dies, but it never surrenders."
>
> .....Alan. :-)

I love that phrase!

Wayne

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 02:03:01 GMT, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:


>Frogleg wrote:
>
>> You hit a nerve. I'm a part-time grammar cop, and "guy/guys" drives me
>> up the wall.

>I fancy myself a part-time grammar cop as well, and for reasons I can't
>explain, I rather like the informal and gender neutral use of "guys."
>In the examples you gave for news reporting, I agree that victim,
>suspect and man would be better, but for informal everyday speech,
>"guys" has an un-stodgy air that suits me. At work, I like being the
>woman in charge. At lunch, I like being just one of the guys.

Ah, but that's the point. Colloquial speech and writing is, by
definition, casual and informal. I can't speak for more than 30
seconds without producing incomplete or run-on sentences. I certainly
refer to "this guy I used to know" (or "that SOB at the hardware
store"), but not for publication or presentation. Try as I do, I
cannot completely eradicate "you know" from my speech, but I don't
expect news reports to include those defects in a script in an effort
to seem "friendly" or "understandable." One term that has made it
into both print and broadcast reports here is "busted" or "busted out"
for "broken," as in "several car windows were busted out."

While I don't expect the Daily Fishwrap to be written with the style
and vocabulary of 'Moby Dick', it *could* approach the level of a 9th
grade example of correct grammar and use.

"Steve Calvin" > wrote in message
...
> Nancy Young wrote:
>
> >>You hit a nerve. I'm a part-time grammar cop, and "guy/guys" drives me
> >>up the wall.
> >
> >
> > I think it's a regional/generational thing. I wouldn't think twice
> > about asking my female friends, you guys want to go out for lunch?
> > Doesn't offend me in the least if a waiter/bartender refers to me as
> > such. Having said that, "What can I get you?" does seem to suffice.
>
> > nancy
>
> I'm with you nancy. What bothers me more is being called sir <shudder>
> Am I getting that old? Well, I guess maybe I am...
>

It is a regional thing. In my neck of the woods, it's always 'you guys
wanna play cribbage?' or 'you guys wanna shoot pool?; feh, it's colloquial,
and akin to 'ya'll'.

Calling me 'buddy' without knowing me from adam yanks my chain.

Jack Youse

Nancy Young wrote:

>>You hit a nerve. I'm a part-time grammar cop, and "guy/guys" drives me
>>up the wall.
>
>
> I think it's a regional/generational thing. I wouldn't think twice
> about asking my female friends, you guys want to go out for lunch?
> Doesn't offend me in the least if a waiter/bartender refers to me as
> such. Having said that, "What can I get you?" does seem to suffice.

> nancy

I'm with you nancy. What bothers me more is being called sir <shudder>
Am I getting that old? Well, I guess maybe I am...

In article >, Frogleg
> writes:

>Julia Altshuler
> wrote:
>
>
>>Frogleg wrote:
>>
>>> You hit a nerve. I'm a part-time grammar cop, and "guy/guys" drives me
>>> up the wall.
>
>>I fancy myself a part-time grammar cop as well, and for reasons I can't
>>explain, I rather like the informal and gender neutral use of "guys."
>>In the examples you gave for news reporting, I agree that victim,
>>suspect and man would be better, but for informal everyday speech,
>>"guys" has an un-stodgy air that suits me. At work, I like being the
>>woman in charge. At lunch, I like being just one of the guys.
>
>Ah, but that's the point. Colloquial speech and writing is, by
>definition, casual and informal.

Yet another "Sentence Fragment & Comma-tose Moron".


>I can't speak for more than 30
>seconds without producing incomplete or run-on sentences. I certainly
>refer to "this guy I used to know" (or "that SOB at the hardware
>store"), but not for publication or presentation. Try as I do, I
>cannot completely eradicate "you know" from my speech, but I don't
>expect news reports to include those defects in a script in an effort
>to seem "friendly" or "understandable." One term that has made it
>into both print and broadcast reports here is "busted" or "busted out"
>for "broken," as in "several car windows were busted out."
>
>While I don't expect the Daily Fishwrap to be written with the style
>and vocabulary of 'Moby Dick', it *could* approach the level of a 9th
>grade example of correct grammar and use.

Every single one of your commas is incorrect. Frogleg, your writing is on par
with that of a high school drop out.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

Julia Altshuler writes:

>I fancy myself a part-time grammar cop as well,

Um, you're more a grammar meter maid, the comma is NOT a decoration. All your
commas are incorrectly inserted and what's really eerie is that you omitted the
one necessary comma.

>and for reasons I can't
>explain, I rather like the informal and gender neutral use of "guys."
>In the examples you gave for news reporting, I agree that victim,
>suspect and man would be better, but for informal everyday speech,
>"guys" has an un-stodgy air that suits me. At work, I like being the
>woman in charge. At lunch, I like being just one of the guys.



---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

Frogleg > wrote:

> You hit a nerve. I'm a part-time grammar cop, and "guy/guys" drives me
> up the wall. I've been protesting to local media for some time that

The use of "guys" as a gender neutral term doesn't bother
me too much in casual speech, although "folks" seems made for
that purpose.

> "girl" had been attacked by a "guy" who ran into the woods. Babe,
> dude, chick, brother, are only a heartbeat away.

Now you hit one that bugs me. My daughter and her
female friends have a rather distressing habit
of calling each other "dude." Shudder.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

"Jack Schidt®" wrote:
>
> "Steve Calvin" > wrote in message

> > > I think it's a regional/generational thing. I wouldn't think twice
> > > about asking my female friends, you guys want to go out for lunch?
> > > Doesn't offend me in the least if a waiter/bartender refers to me as
> > > such. Having said that, "What can I get you?" does seem to suffice.

> > I'm with you nancy. What bothers me more is being called sir <shudder>
> > Am I getting that old? Well, I guess maybe I am...

Yeah, I got 'lady' the a couple of weeks ago. Ouch.

> It is a regional thing. In my neck of the woods, it's always 'you guys
> wanna play cribbage?' or 'you guys wanna shoot pool?; feh, it's colloquial,
> and akin to 'ya'll'.

Funny, in the original article I quoted, the restaurant critic was
chastised by the manager ... "We say 'y'all' because it means you all
and that's much nicer. You're being downright rude. Guys don't
come in here. Gentlemen do."

That struck me as kind of funny, some place that considers their
customers Gentleman think it's okay to address the table as 'y'all.'

> Calling me 'buddy' without knowing me from adam yanks my chain.

Yeah, I can see that.

nancy

"Jack Schidt®" > wrote in
. com:

>
> "Steve Calvin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>> >>You hit a nerve. I'm a part-time grammar cop, and "guy/guys" drives
>> >>me up the wall.
>> >
>> >
>> > I think it's a regional/generational thing. I wouldn't think twice
>> > about asking my female friends, you guys want to go out for lunch?
>> > Doesn't offend me in the least if a waiter/bartender refers to me
>> > as such. Having said that, "What can I get you?" does seem to
>> > suffice.
>>
>> > nancy
>>
>> I'm with you nancy. What bothers me more is being called sir
>> <shudder>
>> Am I getting that old? Well, I guess maybe I am...
>>
>
> It is a regional thing. In my neck of the woods, it's always 'you
> guys wanna play cribbage?' or 'you guys wanna shoot pool?; feh, it's
> colloquial, and akin to 'ya'll'.
>
> Calling me 'buddy' without knowing me from adam yanks my chain.
>
> Jack Youse
>
>

I understand and basically agree. However, "you guys" or "yousse guys"
evokes memories and images of the black leather-jacketed high school kids
who hung out on the corner. I was *not* one of those.

Wayne

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Jack Schidt®" > wrote in
> . com:
>
> >
> > "Steve Calvin" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Nancy Young wrote:
> >>
> >> >>You hit a nerve. I'm a part-time grammar cop, and "guy/guys" drives
> >> >>me up the wall.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I think it's a regional/generational thing. I wouldn't think twice
> >> > about asking my female friends, you guys want to go out for lunch?
> >> > Doesn't offend me in the least if a waiter/bartender refers to me
> >> > as such. Having said that, "What can I get you?" does seem to
> >> > suffice.
> >>
> >> > nancy
> >>
> >> I'm with you nancy. What bothers me more is being called sir
> >> <shudder>
> >> Am I getting that old? Well, I guess maybe I am...
> >>
> >
> > It is a regional thing. In my neck of the woods, it's always 'you
> > guys wanna play cribbage?' or 'you guys wanna shoot pool?; feh, it's
> > colloquial, and akin to 'ya'll'.
> >
> > Calling me 'buddy' without knowing me from adam yanks my chain.
> >
> > Jack Youse
> >
> >
>
> I understand and basically agree. However, "you guys" or "yousse guys"
> evokes memories and images of the black leather-jacketed high school kids
> who hung out on the corner. I was *not* one of those.
>
> Wayne


Aww, c'mon, Wayne. Not even once?

Jack Teddy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> "Jack Schidt®" wrote:
> >
> > "Steve Calvin" > wrote in message
>
> > > > I think it's a regional/generational thing. I wouldn't think twice
> > > > about asking my female friends, you guys want to go out for lunch?
> > > > Doesn't offend me in the least if a waiter/bartender refers to me as
> > > > such. Having said that, "What can I get you?" does seem to suffice.
>
> > > I'm with you nancy. What bothers me more is being called sir <shudder>
> > > Am I getting that old? Well, I guess maybe I am...
>
> Yeah, I got 'lady' the a couple of weeks ago. Ouch.
>
> > It is a regional thing. In my neck of the woods, it's always 'you guys
> > wanna play cribbage?' or 'you guys wanna shoot pool?; feh, it's
colloquial,
> > and akin to 'ya'll'.
>
> Funny, in the original article I quoted, the restaurant critic was
> chastised by the manager ... "We say 'y'all' because it means you all
> and that's much nicer. You're being downright rude. Guys don't
> come in here. Gentlemen do."
>
> That struck me as kind of funny, some place that considers their
> customers Gentleman think it's okay to address the table as 'y'all.'
>
> > Calling me 'buddy' without knowing me from adam yanks my chain.
>
> Yeah, I can see that.
>
> nancy

I'm not sure I understand the problem that many people have with the word
"y'all."

"Y'all" is a contraction - a legitimate contraction of the words "you all,"
also a perfectly defensible snippet of grammar. Nobody gets regional about
other contractions, including "isn't," "couldn't" or "it's".

I also find "you guys" annoying, because I am not - nor have I ever been - a
guy, and when I am in a group that is addressed as "you guys," I mention
that to the person doing the addressing. I'd much rather hear "y'all" than
"you guys."

I also agree with other posters who say that what is used on common everyday
"around the house" speech is different than what I expect to hear from those
in more formal settings, like newscasters and newspapers. I don't want to
hear or see even "y'all" in those situations.A double standard, perhaps, but
still a distinction I make in my mind.

But my family already says I'm far too anal about correct word usage anyway.

Oh well. To each his own.

Miss Jean, 7M+

"Jack Schidt®" > wrote in
m:

>
> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "Jack Schidt®" > wrote in
>> . com:
>>
>> >
>> > "Steve Calvin" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> Nancy Young wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >>You hit a nerve. I'm a part-time grammar cop, and "guy/guys"
>> >> >>drives me up the wall.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I think it's a regional/generational thing. I wouldn't think
>> >> > twice about asking my female friends, you guys want to go out
>> >> > for lunch? Doesn't offend me in the least if a waiter/bartender
>> >> > refers to me as such. Having said that, "What can I get you?"
>> >> > does seem to suffice.
>> >>
>> >> > nancy
>> >>
>> >> I'm with you nancy. What bothers me more is being called sir
>> >> <shudder>
>> >> Am I getting that old? Well, I guess maybe I am...
>> >>
>> >
>> > It is a regional thing. In my neck of the woods, it's always 'you
>> > guys wanna play cribbage?' or 'you guys wanna shoot pool?; feh,
>> > it's colloquial, and akin to 'ya'll'.
>> >
>> > Calling me 'buddy' without knowing me from adam yanks my chain.
>> >
>> > Jack Youse
>> >
>> >
>>
>> I understand and basically agree. However, "you guys" or "yousse
>> guys" evokes memories and images of the black leather-jacketed high
>> school kids who hung out on the corner. I was *not* one of those.
>>
>> Wayne
>
>
> Aww, c'mon, Wayne. Not even once?
>
> Jack Teddy
>
>
>

Never owned a black leather jacket! <G>

Wayne

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

<snip>
>>>I understand and basically agree. However, "you guys" or "yousse
>>>guys" evokes memories and images of the black leather-jacketed high
>>>school kids who hung out on the corner. I was *not* one of those.
>>>
>>>Wayne
>>
>>
>>Aww, c'mon, Wayne. Not even once?
>>
>>Jack Teddy
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Never owned a black leather jacket! <G>
>
> Wayne


ManWayne! After you recover from your surgery, get a bike and a black
leather jacket and get out there man! ;-)

--
Steve

If you look like your passport picture, you probably need the trip.

Steve Calvin > wrote in
s.com:

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>>>I understand and basically agree. However, "you guys" or "yousse
>>>>guys" evokes memories and images of the black leather-jacketed high
>>>>school kids who hung out on the corner. I was *not* one of those.
>>>>
>>>>Wayne
>>>
>>>
>>>Aww, c'mon, Wayne. Not even once?
>>>
>>>Jack Teddy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Never owned a black leather jacket! <G>
>>
>> Wayne
>
>
> ManWayne! After you recover from your surgery, get a bike and a black
> leather jacket and get out there man! ;-)
>

I could stand the excitement! <G> Life's been a little dull lately.

Wayne