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General Cooking (rec.food.cooking) For general food and cooking discussion. Foods of all kinds, food procurement, cooking methods and techniques, eating, etc. |
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I am fortunate to live in the pacific northwest, having hunted for Morels
for years I knew when I moved here I would probably find other delicious wild fungi, well little did I know but the variety is amazing, and my problem is how to preserve what we can't eat fresh, so far the edibles I have been finding are,,,,,,, Chanterelles, Boletus, Cauliflower, and Matsutake. Can anyone shed some light on cooking ideas? and preservation? usually we sauté and have on the side, but did make some dressing with the Chanterelles and Cauliflower mushrooms. -- "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in one pretty well preserved piece, but to skid across the line broadside, thoroughly used up, worn out, shouting GERONIMO !" Bruce |
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Ol' Hippie wrote:
> I am fortunate to live in the pacific northwest, having hunted for More= ls > for years I knew when I moved here I would probably find other deliciou= s > wild fungi, well little did I know but the variety is amazing, and my > problem is how to preserve what we can't eat fresh, so far the edibles = I > have been finding are,,,,,,, > Chanterelles, > Boletus, > Cauliflower, > and Matsutake. > Can anyone shed some light on cooking ideas? and preservation? usually = we > saut=E9 and have on the side, but did make some dressing with the Chant= erelles > and Cauliflower mushrooms. >=20 >=20 Must be nice. Dehydrate them. Seal them in a bag. Package them up and=20 mail to Steve....;-) Seriously, drying them would be the best way to preserve them. |
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![]() Ol' Hippie wrote: > > I am fortunate to live in the pacific northwest, having hunted for Morels > for years I knew when I moved here I would probably find other delicious > wild fungi, well little did I know but the variety is amazing, and my > problem is how to preserve what we can't eat fresh, so far the edibles I > have been finding are,,,,,,, > Chanterelles, > Boletus, > Cauliflower, > and Matsutake. > Can anyone shed some light on cooking ideas? and preservation? usually we > sauté and have on the side, but did make some dressing with the Chanterelles > and Cauliflower mushrooms. > > -- Personally, I'd can them. :-) K. -- >^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^< "There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are all owned by cats" -- Asimov Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra |
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![]() "Ol' Hippie" > wrote in message ... > I am fortunate to live in the pacific northwest, having hunted for Morels > for years I knew when I moved here I would probably find other delicious > wild fungi, well little did I know but the variety is amazing, and my > problem is how to preserve what we can't eat fresh, so far the edibles I > have been finding are,,,,,,, > Chanterelles, > Boletus, > Cauliflower, > and Matsutake. > Can anyone shed some light on cooking ideas? and preservation? usually we > sauté and have on the side, but did make some dressing with the Chanterelles > and Cauliflower mushrooms. The two methods used to preserve mushrooms are drying and freezing. *Never* can them as you would be asking for botulism (you need a lot of acidity to kill bacteria in anything you can). Drying is usually the preferred method of preservation. It actually enhances the flavor of some mushrooms, like boletes and black trumpets. Some of the denser mushrooms may be frozen, like chanterelles or hen-of-the-woods. If you do freeze them, be sure NOT to thaw them. Instead, throw them directly from the freezer into whatever you are cooking. Else the texture of the mushrooms may be destroyed. Some mushrooms, like the cauliflower mushroom, should only be used fresh. The usual method for freezing is to saute them until they begin to release water. Then immediately remove them from the heat and allow to cool. Bag serving sizes (2 cups) of the cooled mushrooms, including the liquid, in freezer bags. Mark the bags and stick them into the freezer. I've also had luck flash freezing some kinds of mushrooms. Lay the mushrooms out on a tray covered with wax paper so they don't touch each other. Freeze 'em, bag 'em, mark 'em, and put 'em back into the freezer. I like the flash freezing method as it doesn't produce a large clump of frozen mushooms - you can use as many or as few as you want. You'll have to experiment with which freezing method works better with which mushrooms. |
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In article >, "C. James Strutz"
> wrote: (snip) > The two methods used to preserve mushrooms are drying and freezing. > *Never* can them as you would be asking for botulism (you need a lot > of acidity to kill bacteria in anything you can). Not true. Heat is what kills clostridium botulinum -- you can get botulism poisoning from it. An acidity level of 4.6 pH or below is considered to be safe for the canning process that is called "boiling water bath," often abbreviated as BWB over yonder on rec.food.preserving. Most fruits are acidic enough to allow BWB processing. Tomatoes are now considered to be borderline safe and must be additionally acidified (lemon juice, citric acid, or vinegar) if processing in a BWB. Vegetables *must* be processed in a steam pressure canner (not to be confused with a pressure cooker or a steam canner) in order to kill the botulism toxin present in low acid vegetables. Having said all that, the National Center for Home Food Preservation at the University of Georgia provides canning instructions for whole or sliced *domestic mushrooms* with a *boldface caution against canning wild mushrooms.* I do not know why. Ask them. -- -Barb (www.jamlady.eboard.com updated 10-16-03; check the PickleHats tab, too.) |
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"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
... > In article >, "C. James Strutz" > > wrote: > (snip) > > The two methods used to preserve mushrooms are drying and freezing. > > *Never* can them as you would be asking for botulism (you need a lot > > of acidity to kill bacteria in anything you can). > > Not true. > > Heat is what kills clostridium botulinum -- you can get botulism > poisoning from it. An acidity level of 4.6 pH or below is considered to > be safe for the canning process that is called "boiling water bath," > often abbreviated as BWB over yonder on rec.food.preserving. Most > fruits are acidic enough to allow BWB processing. Tomatoes are now > considered to be borderline safe and must be additionally acidified > (lemon juice, citric acid, or vinegar) if processing in a BWB. > > Vegetables *must* be processed in a steam pressure canner (not to be > confused with a pressure cooker or a steam canner) in order to kill the > botulism toxin present in low acid vegetables. > > Having said all that, the National Center for Home Food Preservation at > the University of Georgia provides canning instructions for whole or > sliced *domestic mushrooms* with a *boldface caution against canning > wild mushrooms.* I do not know why. Ask them. > -- > -Barb (www.jamlady.eboard.com updated 10-16-03; check the PickleHats tab, too.) This is a rather confusing post and contains some inaccuracies which I'll try to set straight. Botulinum bacteria are not themselves dangerous. You do not get infected by eating or being exposed to them. But when they are growing they produce a very deadly toxin (poison) a very small amount of which will kill you. The problem with canned foods occurs when there is botulinum bacteria growing in the can and producing this toxin - eat the food and the toxin kills you. Normal canning in a boiling water bath heats the food to 212 degrees - the boiling poijt of water. Botulunum bacteria is not killed at this temperature. So what to do? One approach is to use a pressure canner. Under pressure, the heat of canning is greater than 212 degrees, enough to kill all the botulinum. Guaranteed safe (if done right!). The other approach is to take advantage of the fact that botulinum bacteria will not grow in acid conditions. Acid does not kill them, but it prevents them from growing and producing the toxin. So, most tomatoes, pickles, and other acidic foods can be safely canned in a boiling water bath. The acid does not "kill" the toxin but prevents it from being formed in the first place. Mushrooms are definitely on the "no" list for canning with a boiling water bath. They are not at all acidi so you must use a pressure canner to can them safely. But drying or freezing are better ways to preserve mushrooms with perfect safety. For freezing, I have found that sauteing in a minimal amount of fat until about hald done is the best way. -- Peter Aitken Remove the crap from my email address before using. |
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Peter Aitken wrote:
> "Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message > ... > >>In article >, "C. James Strutz" > wrote: >>(snip) >> >>>The two methods used to preserve mushrooms are drying and freezing. >>>*Never* can them as you would be asking for botulism (you need a lot >>>of acidity to kill bacteria in anything you can). >> >>Not true. >> >>Heat is what kills clostridium botulinum -- you can get botulism >>poisoning from it. An acidity level of 4.6 pH or below is considered to >>be safe for the canning process that is called "boiling water bath," >>often abbreviated as BWB over yonder on rec.food.preserving. Most >>fruits are acidic enough to allow BWB processing. Tomatoes are now >>considered to be borderline safe and must be additionally acidified >>(lemon juice, citric acid, or vinegar) if processing in a BWB. >> >>Vegetables *must* be processed in a steam pressure canner (not to be >>confused with a pressure cooker or a steam canner) in order to kill the >>botulism toxin present in low acid vegetables. >> >>Having said all that, the National Center for Home Food Preservation at >>the University of Georgia provides canning instructions for whole or >>sliced *domestic mushrooms* with a *boldface caution against canning >>wild mushrooms.* I do not know why. Ask them. >>-- >>-Barb (www.jamlady.eboard.com updated 10-16-03; check the PickleHats tab, > > too.) > > This is a rather confusing post and contains some inaccuracies which I'll > try to set straight. > > Botulinum bacteria are not themselves dangerous. You do not get infected by > eating or being exposed to them. But when they are growing they produce a > very deadly toxin (poison) a very small amount of which will kill you. The > problem with canned foods occurs when there is botulinum bacteria growing in > the can and producing this toxin - eat the food and the toxin kills you. > Normal canning in a boiling water bath heats the food to 212 degrees - the > boiling poijt of water. Botulunum bacteria is not killed at this > temperature. So what to do? The toxin doesn't have to kill you if you don't develop respiratory failure; and if you do, there is always intubation and mechanical ventilation to see you through the process. Also, the big problem with the bacteria is when it is in its spore phase. Boiling water kills the bacteria in its non spore stage, but will not kill it in said stage. > > One approach is to use a pressure canner. Under pressure, the heat of > canning is greater than 212 degrees, enough to kill all the botulinum. > Guaranteed safe (if done right!). > > The other approach is to take advantage of the fact that botulinum bacteria > will not grow in acid conditions. Acid does not kill them, but it prevents > them from growing and producing the toxin. So, most tomatoes, pickles, and > other acidic foods can be safely canned in a boiling water bath. The acid > does not "kill" the toxin but prevents it from being formed in the first > place. > > Mushrooms are definitely on the "no" list for canning with a boiling water > bath. They are not at all acidi so you must use a pressure canner to can > them safely. But drying or freezing are better ways to preserve mushrooms > with perfect safety. For freezing, I have found that sauteing in a minimal > amount of fat until about hald done is the best way. > > -- "..A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti..." Hannibal "The Cannibal" Silence Of The Lambs 1991 |
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![]() "C. James Strutz" wrote: > > "Ol' Hippie" > wrote in message > ... > > I am fortunate to live in the pacific northwest, having hunted for Morels > > for years I knew when I moved here I would probably find other delicious > > wild fungi, well little did I know but the variety is amazing, and my > > problem is how to preserve what we can't eat fresh, so far the edibles I > > have been finding are,,,,,,, > > Chanterelles, > > Boletus, > > Cauliflower, > > and Matsutake. > > Can anyone shed some light on cooking ideas? and preservation? usually we > > sauté and have on the side, but did make some dressing with the > Chanterelles > > and Cauliflower mushrooms. > > The two methods used to preserve mushrooms are drying and freezing. *Never* > can them as you would be asking for botulism (you need a lot of acidity to > kill bacteria in anything you can). Drying is usually the preferred method > of preservation. It actually enhances the flavor of some mushrooms, like > boletes and black trumpets. Some of the denser mushrooms may be frozen, like > chanterelles or hen-of-the-woods. If you do freeze them, be sure NOT to thaw > them. Instead, throw them directly from the freezer into whatever you are > cooking. Else the texture of the mushrooms may be destroyed. Some mushrooms, > like the cauliflower mushroom, should only be used fresh. > > The usual method for freezing is to saute them until they begin to release > water. Then immediately remove them from the heat and allow to cool. Bag > serving sizes (2 cups) of the cooled mushrooms, including the liquid, in > freezer bags. Mark the bags and stick them into the freezer. I've also had > luck flash freezing some kinds of mushrooms. Lay the mushrooms out on a tray > covered with wax paper so they don't touch each other. Freeze 'em, bag 'em, > mark 'em, and put 'em back into the freezer. I like the flash freezing > method as it doesn't produce a large clump of frozen mushooms - you can use > as many or as few as you want. You'll have to experiment with which freezing > method works better with which mushrooms. Hmmmmm... I buy a LOT of canned 'shrooms from the Oriental market... but i know to toss any "swollen" cans. Normally I use them too fast for this to be a problem. :-) I agree about dried mushrooms. I've even powdered dried ones I have bought and used them as a flavoring on fried chicken. So, if we were to can them, what is a safe technique? K. -- >^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^< "There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are all owned by cats" -- Asimov Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra |
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![]() Melba's Jammin' wrote: > > In article >, "C. James Strutz" > > wrote: > (snip) > > The two methods used to preserve mushrooms are drying and freezing. > > *Never* can them as you would be asking for botulism (you need a lot > > of acidity to kill bacteria in anything you can). > > Not true. > > Heat is what kills clostridium botulinum -- you can get botulism > poisoning from it. An acidity level of 4.6 pH or below is considered to > be safe for the canning process that is called "boiling water bath," > often abbreviated as BWB over yonder on rec.food.preserving. Most > fruits are acidic enough to allow BWB processing. Tomatoes are now > considered to be borderline safe and must be additionally acidified > (lemon juice, citric acid, or vinegar) if processing in a BWB. > > Vegetables *must* be processed in a steam pressure canner (not to be > confused with a pressure cooker or a steam canner) in order to kill the > botulism toxin present in low acid vegetables. > > Having said all that, the National Center for Home Food Preservation at > the University of Georgia provides canning instructions for whole or > sliced *domestic mushrooms* with a *boldface caution against canning > wild mushrooms.* I do not know why. Ask them. > -- > -Barb Simple actually. :-) Clostridium lives in the soil as a "normal" soil organism. The likelyhood of it being in dirt on your mushrooms is plausible, and no amount of washing can totally guarantee that it won't be there! Commercially grown mushrooms start out in STERILIZED soil! They are pure, clean, and safe. :-) K. -- >^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^< "There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are all owned by cats" -- Asimov Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra |
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![]() "Katra" > wrote in message ... > > > "C. James Strutz" wrote: > > > > "Ol' Hippie" > wrote in message > > ... > > > I am fortunate to live in the pacific northwest, having hunted for Morels > > > for years I knew when I moved here I would probably find other delicious > > > wild fungi, well little did I know but the variety is amazing, and my > > > problem is how to preserve what we can't eat fresh, so far the edibles I > > > have been finding are,,,,,,, > > > Chanterelles, > > > Boletus, > > > Cauliflower, > > > and Matsutake. > > > Can anyone shed some light on cooking ideas? and preservation? usually we > > > sauté and have on the side, but did make some dressing with the > > Chanterelles > > > and Cauliflower mushrooms. > > > > The two methods used to preserve mushrooms are drying and freezing. *Never* > > can them as you would be asking for botulism (you need a lot of acidity to > > kill bacteria in anything you can). Drying is usually the preferred method > > of preservation. It actually enhances the flavor of some mushrooms, like > > boletes and black trumpets. Some of the denser mushrooms may be frozen, like > > chanterelles or hen-of-the-woods. If you do freeze them, be sure NOT to thaw > > them. Instead, throw them directly from the freezer into whatever you are > > cooking. Else the texture of the mushrooms may be destroyed. Some mushrooms, > > like the cauliflower mushroom, should only be used fresh. > > > > The usual method for freezing is to saute them until they begin to release > > water. Then immediately remove them from the heat and allow to cool. Bag > > serving sizes (2 cups) of the cooled mushrooms, including the liquid, in > > freezer bags. Mark the bags and stick them into the freezer. I've also had > > luck flash freezing some kinds of mushrooms. Lay the mushrooms out on a tray > > covered with wax paper so they don't touch each other. Freeze 'em, bag 'em, > > mark 'em, and put 'em back into the freezer. I like the flash freezing > > method as it doesn't produce a large clump of frozen mushooms - you can use > > as many or as few as you want. You'll have to experiment with which freezing > > method works better with which mushrooms. > > Hmmmmm... I buy a LOT of canned 'shrooms from the Oriental market... but > i know to toss any "swollen" cans. Normally I use them too fast for this > to be a problem. :-) > > I agree about dried mushrooms. I've even powdered dried ones I have > bought and used them as a flavoring on fried chicken. > > So, if we were to can them, what is a safe technique? An old Polish guy in my mushroom club claims his mother used to can wild mushrooms. But he adds that, in hindsight, it was lucky nobody was poisoned. I don't know what technique she used (and I won't ask because I don't want a lecture). He and other very knowledgeable mushroom people strongly caution against canning wild mushrooms. That's good enough for me. I freeze them and dry them as I described previously. Oh, I want to add a caution for drying mushrooms. Always dry them outside or in a well ventilated place. Mushroom spores can be blown around by the fans in commercial dehydators and may be inhaled into the lungs. Lungs are warm and moist and can provide a suitable environment for fungus to grow. |
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In article >, Katra
> wrote: > Melba's Jammin' wrote: > > Having said all that, the National Center for Home Food Preservation at > > the University of Georgia provides canning instructions for whole or > > sliced *domestic mushrooms* with a *boldface caution against canning > > wild mushrooms.* I do not know why. Ask them. > > -- > > -Barb > > Simple actually. :-) > Clostridium lives in the soil as a "normal" soil organism. > The likelyhood of it being in dirt on your mushrooms is plausible, and > no amount of washing can totally guarantee that it won't be there! > > Commercially grown mushrooms start out in STERILIZED soil! They are > pure, clean, and safe. :-) > > K. Now that's a reasonable explanation. I know about the presence of the stuff in soil, didn't make the connection with commercial growth medium being sterile. -- -Barb (www.jamlady.eboard.com updated 10-16-03; check the PickleHats tab, too.) |
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In article >, "C. James Strutz"
> wrote: (snip) > > So, if we were to can them, what is a safe technique? > > An old Polish guy in my mushroom club claims his mother used to can > wild mushrooms. But he adds that, in hindsight, it was lucky nobody > was poisoned. I don't know what technique she used (and I won't ask > because I don't want a lecture). He and other very knowledgeable > mushroom people strongly caution against canning wild mushrooms. > That's good enough for me. I freeze them and dry them as I described > previously. They were no doubt processed in a boiling water bath -- that's how my mom used to do them, too. She canned corn, peas, and beans in a BWB, too. I have a sister who pressure cans her wild mushrooms (boletus, we think) -- she's "done it all the time and nobody's died." She was miffed when I passed on a pint; I told her I prefer dry. Which is true. I can rehydrate as many as I need. > > Oh, I want to add a caution for drying mushrooms. Always dry them > outside or in a well ventilated place. Mushroom spores can be blown > around by the fans in commercial dehydators and may be inhaled into > the lungs. Lungs are warm and moist and can provide a suitable > environment for fungus to grow. Geez, Mom dried hers in front of every heat vent in our house! Cranked the wood furnace up for it, too. In September! With her food handling habits, it's a wonder we all lived past childhood. Oh, sure, the usual fingers cut off in the corncutter -- that kind of thing, but somehow we survived her storage methods. May God rest her weary soul. My Slovakian cousins jerry-rig a cool gizmo -- a screen over (above) the wood-burning stove. Screen is on legs, about a foot above the stove, IIR. When they visited us 3 yeras ago, Cousin Michal's gift to the family was dried mushrooms!! He'd been picking in the Spring and Summer and dried them -- I'd guess about a gallon and a half by volume. I'm tellin' ya, his mushrooms were more prized than all the crystal they brought, too! -- -Barb (www.jamlady.eboard.com updated 10-16-03; check the PickleHats tab, too.) |
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![]() "Sophie" > wrote in message r... > On 11/11/03 17:49, in article , "Ol' > Hippie" > wrote: > > > I am fortunate to live in the pacific northwest, having hunted for Morels > > for years I knew when I moved here I would probably find other delicious > > wild fungi, well little did I know but the variety is amazing, and my > > problem is how to preserve what we can't eat fresh, so far the edibles I > > have been finding are,,,,,,, > > Chanterelles, > > Boletus, > > Cauliflower, > > and Matsutake. > > Can anyone shed some light on cooking ideas? and preservation? usually we > > sauté and have on the side, but did make some dressing with the Chanterelles > > and Cauliflower mushrooms. > > > > > Chanterelles are no good dried. You may can them or freeze them. I dry chanterelles for the water they are later rehydrated in. Chanterelle flavored water (or wine, sherry, etc.) may be used for many things including tasty sauces, cous cous, grains, etc. I chop the rehydrated chanterelles and used them in whatever I'm making. They are fine to saute with shallots and garlic for sauces or fillings. Dried chanterelles are also good eaten dry, like candy. You're right though, freezing is the best way to preserve chanerelles. > Boletus : I hope you get the cèpes ones (fat and firm, cap = dark brown or > tan). Usually when you find boletus you find several kinds of them. Most are > edible as long as they don't have a bitter taste (taste a tiny bit when > you're unsure, no boletus is seriously toxic). Boletes can make you quite sick if you eat ones that have red pores or ones that bruise/stain blue. The bitter boletes will simply ruin your meal. Otherwise, they are safe. :^) > You can dry the cèpes after slicing them, but you have to know they will > only be used for their flavor when dehydrated, for the texture will be lost. > They're so much better fresh. A good alternative is to can them or make an > antipasto of them. I'll provide a recipe here. Some people claim that drying cèpes enhances their flavor. I think that both fresh and dried cèpes have great culinary value. > Freezing cèpes is the most frequently used solution in the French regions. How are frozen cèpes used in French cuisine? > I've never heard of dried cauliflower mushroom but I've heard of it > preserved in light vinegar, as a pickle. The cauliflower is a beautiful mushroom but is not particularly flavorful. I also have never heard of anyone drying them. > I don't know about matsutake, which doesn't grow in Europe. I suppose you > could can them too. Most knowledgeable mushroom foragers caution against canning wild mushrooms. I've heard the reason that cultivated mushrooms may be canned is that they are grown in sterile conditions and therefore carry no harmful bacteria. > Morels can successfully be dried but unless you find a bounty of them, > you're not likely to need that. Morels are another mushroom that some people say drying will enahance their flavor. They are outstanding either fresh or dried. > PRESERVING MUSHROOMS AS AN ANTIPASTO > > Clean mushrooms. Never wash cèpes or chanterelles, just wipe them with damp > absorbent paper. If needed, cut them up any size you wish (rather large is > recommended). > > Boil a mixture of half-salted water, half-white wine vinegar in a saucepan. > Scald mushrooms in this, simmer for 1 minute, drain and let dry overnight on > a layer of absorbent paper or a clean towel. > > When mushrooms are quite dry, layer them in screwtop glass jars with bay > leaves, fresh chunks of garlic, black peppercorns, a few cloves or allspice > berries, mustard seeds and fresh chilli peppers. Cover with oil (olive or > grapeseed), cover jars tightly and let sit in refrigerator at least one week > before opening. Open jars must be consumed within two weeks and > refrigerated. Unopened jars keep a long time in a cold place. > > A sharper taste may be achieved by substituting dry white wine for water. This is a really interesting recipe. Thanks, I will try it. |
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