How do the thickening powers of, say, cornstarch, arrowroot, and flour
differ? Not what the outcome looks like or how it keeps, but how they
relate in thickening power. I.e., if it takes 1 tbsp of flour to
thicken x amount of liquid, it will take how much arrowroot to produce
the same thickness in the same amount of liquid?
--
-Barb
State Fair prizewinning jams and jellies for sale at the Burnsville
Senior Citizens Bake Sale, November 19, 2003; 9:00 a.m. -6:00 p.m.
Diamondhead Education Center, Burnsville Parkway & Nicollet Aves,
Burnsville. 952-707-4120

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> How do the thickening powers of, say, cornstarch, arrowroot, and flour
> differ? Not what the outcome looks like or how it keeps, but how they
> relate in thickening power. I.e., if it takes 1 tbsp of flour to
> thicken x amount of liquid, it will take how much arrowroot to produce
> the same thickness in the same amount of liquid?

flour (as roux)= 2 tablespoons to 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 cups liquid
potato starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
tapioca starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
cornstarch= 1 tablespoon to 1 1/2 to 2 cups liquid
arrowroot= 1 tablespoon to 2 cups liquid

They don't all have the same effects. Potato starch will be more
opaque than the rest, but it will thin out with boiling. Tapioca
starch will become stringy if not handled properly. Arrowroot will be
the shiniest.

Happy thickeners

Pastorio

"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
...
: How do the thickening powers of, say, cornstarch, arrowroot,
and flour
: differ? Not what the outcome looks like or how it keeps, but
how they
: relate in thickening power. I.e., if it takes 1 tbsp of flour
to
: thicken x amount of liquid, it will take how much arrowroot to
produce
: the same thickness in the same amount of liquid?
: --
: -Barb
=========

IIRC, Arrowroot thickens at a 1:3 ratio to Flour; as in 1 TBSP
Arrowroot = 3 TBSP Flour


--
Cyndi
<Remove a "b" to reply>

Bob Pastorio wrote:
>
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> > How do the thickening powers of, say, cornstarch, arrowroot, and flour
> > differ? Not what the outcome looks like or how it keeps, but how they
> > relate in thickening power. I.e., if it takes 1 tbsp of flour to
> > thicken x amount of liquid, it will take how much arrowroot to produce
> > the same thickness in the same amount of liquid?
>
> flour (as roux)= 2 tablespoons to 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 cups liquid
> potato starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
> tapioca starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
> cornstarch= 1 tablespoon to 1 1/2 to 2 cups liquid
> arrowroot= 1 tablespoon to 2 cups liquid
>
> They don't all have the same effects. Potato starch will be more
> opaque than the rest, but it will thin out with boiling. Tapioca
> starch will become stringy if not handled properly. Arrowroot will be
> the shiniest.
>
> Happy thickeners
>
> Pastorio


Ok, with arrowroot, I've been using one heaping tablespoon per cup of
water..... Maybe that is why it's not breaking like the others are?

Danke!

K. (still learning......)
--
>^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
all owned by cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

Katra wrote:

>
> Bob Pastorio wrote:
>
>>Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>
>>
>>>How do the thickening powers of, say, cornstarch, arrowroot, and flour
>>>differ? Not what the outcome looks like or how it keeps, but how they
>>>relate in thickening power. I.e., if it takes 1 tbsp of flour to
>>>thicken x amount of liquid, it will take how much arrowroot to produce
>>>the same thickness in the same amount of liquid?
>>
>>flour (as roux)= 2 tablespoons to 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 cups liquid
>>potato starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
>>tapioca starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
>>cornstarch= 1 tablespoon to 1 1/2 to 2 cups liquid
>>arrowroot= 1 tablespoon to 2 cups liquid
>>
>>They don't all have the same effects. Potato starch will be more
>>opaque than the rest, but it will thin out with boiling. Tapioca
>>starch will become stringy if not handled properly. Arrowroot will be
>>the shiniest.
>>
>>Happy thickeners
>>
>>Pastorio
>
> Ok, with arrowroot, I've been using one heaping tablespoon per cup of
> water..... Maybe that is why it's not breaking like the others are?

What are you making, gummy bears? <g>

This is serious thickening. It should be not too far from solid.

Pastorio

> Danke!
>
> K. (still learning......)

Bob Pastorio wrote:
>
> Katra wrote:
>
> >
> > Bob Pastorio wrote:
> >
> >>Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>How do the thickening powers of, say, cornstarch, arrowroot, and flour
> >>>differ? Not what the outcome looks like or how it keeps, but how they
> >>>relate in thickening power. I.e., if it takes 1 tbsp of flour to
> >>>thicken x amount of liquid, it will take how much arrowroot to produce
> >>>the same thickness in the same amount of liquid?
> >>
> >>flour (as roux)= 2 tablespoons to 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 cups liquid
> >>potato starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
> >>tapioca starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
> >>cornstarch= 1 tablespoon to 1 1/2 to 2 cups liquid
> >>arrowroot= 1 tablespoon to 2 cups liquid
> >>
> >>They don't all have the same effects. Potato starch will be more
> >>opaque than the rest, but it will thin out with boiling. Tapioca
> >>starch will become stringy if not handled properly. Arrowroot will be
> >>the shiniest.
> >>
> >>Happy thickeners
> >>
> >>Pastorio
> >
> > Ok, with arrowroot, I've been using one heaping tablespoon per cup of
> > water..... Maybe that is why it's not breaking like the others are?
>
> What are you making, gummy bears? <g>
>
> This is serious thickening. It should be not too far from solid.
>
> Pastorio
>


LOL! It does come out a bit thick sometimes. ;-)
It's usually used for stir fry's when I'm in the mood for a LOT of
garlic/ginger sauce, and have more liquid than I had intended. :-)

Still tasty tho'.

I've gotten away from canned mushrooms lately and have gone to using
fresh ones. Fresh mushrooms give up a _lot_ of moisture and I've not
adjusted my recipes yet to accomodate that.

I want stir fry, not stir stew! <g>

I have not tried it yet for boiled sweetbreads. The way I prepare them
(if I do not grill them that is) is to boil them the night before I plan
on serving them, let them cool and save the liquid. I separate off the
fat and membranes and feed those to the cats, and add the cleaned
sweetbreads back to the liquid after it's been turned into a sauce/gravy
using flour as a thickener.

The resulting dish is then spiced lightly with salt and pepper only, and
served over either toast or scrambled eggs.

K.

--
>^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
all owned by cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

Bob Pastorio wrote:
>
> Katra wrote:
>
> >
> > Bob Pastorio wrote:
> >
> >>Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>How do the thickening powers of, say, cornstarch, arrowroot, and flour
> >>>differ? Not what the outcome looks like or how it keeps, but how they
> >>>relate in thickening power. I.e., if it takes 1 tbsp of flour to
> >>>thicken x amount of liquid, it will take how much arrowroot to produce
> >>>the same thickness in the same amount of liquid?
> >>
> >>flour (as roux)= 2 tablespoons to 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 cups liquid
> >>potato starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
> >>tapioca starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
> >>cornstarch= 1 tablespoon to 1 1/2 to 2 cups liquid
> >>arrowroot= 1 tablespoon to 2 cups liquid
> >>
> >>They don't all have the same effects. Potato starch will be more
> >>opaque than the rest, but it will thin out with boiling. Tapioca
> >>starch will become stringy if not handled properly. Arrowroot will be
> >>the shiniest.
> >>
> >>Happy thickeners
> >>
> >>Pastorio
> >
> > Ok, with arrowroot, I've been using one heaping tablespoon per cup of
> > water..... Maybe that is why it's not breaking like the others are?
>
> What are you making, gummy bears? <g>
>
> This is serious thickening. It should be not too far from solid.
>
> Pastorio
>
> > Danke!
> >
> > K. (still learning......)

Had a bit more time to think about this, I might have been misleading...
:-) I use 1 heaping tablespoon of arrowroot per cup of liquid, but that
is the initial water or milk slurry. It's difficult for me to judge the
actual amount of additional liquid in my pan so I get inconsistant
results. Nothing bad, just some dishes thicker than others. :-)

K.

--
>^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
all owned by cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

In article >, Bob Pastorio
> wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> > How do the thickening powers of, say, cornstarch, arrowroot, and flour
> > differ? Not what the outcome looks like or how it keeps, but how they
> > relate in thickening power. I.e., if it takes 1 tbsp of flour to
> > thicken x amount of liquid, it will take how much arrowroot to produce
> > the same thickness in the same amount of liquid?
>
> flour (as roux)= 2 tablespoons to 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 cups liquid
> potato starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
> tapioca starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
> cornstarch= 1 tablespoon to 1 1/2 to 2 cups liquid
> arrowroot= 1 tablespoon to 2 cups liquid
>
> They don't all have the same effects. Potato starch will be more
> opaque than the rest, but it will thin out with boiling. Tapioca
> starch will become stringy if not handled properly. Arrowroot will be
> the shiniest.
>
> Happy thickeners
>
> Pastorio
>

So, Bob, what would be your recommendation to me for thickening the
gravy? Forget the potato starch and the tapioca. I'm thinking I'd
like to give the arrowroot a shot. Any remarks or opinions about one of
the ClearJel products?
--
-Barb
State Fair prizewinning jams and jellies for sale at the Burnsville
Senior Citizens Bake Sale, November 19, 2003; 9:00 a.m. -6:00 p.m.
Diamondhead Education Center, Burnsville Parkway & Nicollet Aves,
Burnsville. 952-707-4120

"Rick & Cyndi" > wrote in message
news:%yYtb.172365$ao4.565764@attbi_s51...
> "Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
> ...
> : How do the thickening powers of, say, cornstarch, arrowroot,
> and flour
> : differ? Not what the outcome looks like or how it keeps, but
> how they
> : relate in thickening power. I.e., if it takes 1 tbsp of flour
> to
> : thicken x amount of liquid, it will take how much arrowroot to
> produce
> : the same thickness in the same amount of liquid?
> : --
> : -Barb
> =========
>
> IIRC, Arrowroot thickens at a 1:3 ratio to Flour; as in 1 TBSP
> Arrowroot = 3 TBSP Flour
>
>
> --
> Cyndi
> <Remove a "b" to reply>

More on Arrowroot and thickeners.

Dimitri

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Arrowroot

.. Arrowroot is a fine powder used for thickening. It comes from the dried
rootstalks of a tropical tuber.
.. Arrowroot's thickening power is about 1 1/2 times that of all-purpose
flour.
.. Like cornstarch, arrowroot should be mixed with enough cold liquid to
make a paste before being stirred into hot mixtures.
.. Unlike cornstarch, arrowroot doesn't impart a chalky taste when
under-cooked.
.. Arrowroot thickens mixtures at a lower temperature than either cornstarch
or flour.
.. Overstirring an arrowroot-thickened mixture can cause it to become thin
again.
.. Some British and early American recipes call for arrowroot flour, which
is the same thing as arrowroot.
.. Substitutions for 1 tablespoon arrowroot: 2 1/4 teaspoons cornstarch; or
1 1/2 tablespoons all-purpose flour.

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> Bob Pastorio > wrote:
>
>>Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>
>>>How do the thickening powers of, say, cornstarch, arrowroot, and flour
>>>differ? Not what the outcome looks like or how it keeps, but how they
>>>relate in thickening power. I.e., if it takes 1 tbsp of flour to
>>>thicken x amount of liquid, it will take how much arrowroot to produce
>>>the same thickness in the same amount of liquid?
>>
>>flour (as roux)= 2 tablespoons to 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 cups liquid
>>potato starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
>>tapioca starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
>>cornstarch= 1 tablespoon to 1 1/2 to 2 cups liquid
>>arrowroot= 1 tablespoon to 2 cups liquid
>>
>>They don't all have the same effects. Potato starch will be more
>>opaque than the rest, but it will thin out with boiling. Tapioca
>>starch will become stringy if not handled properly. Arrowroot will be
>>the shiniest.

> So, Bob, what would be your recommendation to me for thickening the
> gravy? Forget the potato starch and the tapioca. I'm thinking I'd
> like to give the arrowroot a shot. Any remarks or opinions about one of
> the ClearJel products?

Arrowroot will give you a clear, shiny gravy that some people find
offputting. They're more used to an opaque gravy. You can get the same
sort of results by using milk or cream to make the slurry.

ClearJel products are good. Either the instant or regular will work
well. Read the handling instructions on the package. For that matter,
Therm-Flo starch will do as well and also let you freeze the gravy and
not have it break when thawed.

Pastorio

"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
...
> How do the thickening powers of, say, cornstarch, arrowroot, and flour
> differ? Not what the outcome looks like or how it keeps, but how they
> relate in thickening power. I.e., if it takes 1 tbsp of flour to
> thicken x amount of liquid, it will take how much arrowroot to produce
> the same thickness in the same amount of liquid?
> --
> -Barb
> State Fair prizewinning jams and jellies for sale at the Burnsville
> Senior Citizens Bake Sale, November 19, 2003; 9:00 a.m. -6:00 p.m.
> Diamondhead Education Center, Burnsville Parkway & Nicollet Aves,
> Burnsville. 952-707-4120

There is a excellent comparison of all the thickeners at:

http://www.foodsubs.com/Thicken.html

The click on starch thickeners at the bottom of the page.

Dimitri

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:32:00 -0500, Bob Pastorio >
wrote:

>Melba's Jammin' wrote:

>> So, Bob, what would be your recommendation to me for thickening the
>> gravy? Forget the potato starch and the tapioca. I'm thinking I'd
>> like to give the arrowroot a shot. Any remarks or opinions about one of
>> the ClearJel products?
>
>Arrowroot will give you a clear, shiny gravy that some people find
>offputting. They're more used to an opaque gravy. You can get the same
>sort of results by using milk or cream to make the slurry.

Clear gravy means either Chinese food (cornstarch) or cheap TV dinner
(who knows?) to me. *Extremely* off-putting, even 'though the effect
is the same. I guess.

"Bob Pastorio" > wrote in message
...
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> > How do the thickening powers of, say, cornstarch, arrowroot, and flour
> > differ? Not what the outcome looks like or how it keeps, but how they
> > relate in thickening power. I.e., if it takes 1 tbsp of flour to
> > thicken x amount of liquid, it will take how much arrowroot to produce
> > the same thickness in the same amount of liquid?
>
> flour (as roux)= 2 tablespoons to 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 cups liquid
> potato starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
> tapioca starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
> cornstarch= 1 tablespoon to 1 1/2 to 2 cups liquid
> arrowroot= 1 tablespoon to 2 cups liquid
>
> They don't all have the same effects. Potato starch will be more
> opaque than the rest, but it will thin out with boiling. Tapioca
> starch will become stringy if not handled properly. Arrowroot will be
> the shiniest.
>
> Happy thickeners
>
> Pastorio
>

I have always like the results I get from thickening with flour the best. I
do use corn starch on a rare occasion depending on the dish. I haven't tried
the others but with what you wrote it looks like its not worth changing.

peace,
Barbara

"Frogleg" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:32:00 -0500, Bob Pastorio >
> wrote:
>
> >Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> >> So, Bob, what would be your recommendation to me for thickening the
> >> gravy? Forget the potato starch and the tapioca. I'm thinking I'd
> >> like to give the arrowroot a shot. Any remarks or opinions about one
of
> >> the ClearJel products?
> >
> >Arrowroot will give you a clear, shiny gravy that some people find
> >offputting. They're more used to an opaque gravy. You can get the same
> >sort of results by using milk or cream to make the slurry.
>
> Clear gravy means either Chinese food (cornstarch) or cheap TV dinner
> (who knows?) to me. *Extremely* off-putting, even 'though the effect
> is the same. I guess.

But only if the sauce is not too blue.

:-)

Dimitir



ZZ Top TV Dinners lyrics
TV dinners there's nothin' else to eat
TV dinners they really can't be beat
I like 'em frozen but you understand
I throw 'em in and wave 'em and I'm a brand new man oh yeah!

TV dinners they're goin' to my head
TV dinners my skin is turnin' red
Twenty year old turkey in a thirty year old tin
I can't wait until tomorrow.... and thaw one out again oh yeah!

TV dinners I'm feelin' kinda rough
TV dinners this one's kinda tough
I like the enchiladas and the teriaki too
I even like the chicken if.... the sauce is not too blue.

And they're mine, all mine, oh yeah
and they sure are fine.
Gotta have 'em
gimme somethin' now.

- Billy Gibbons, Dusty Hill & Frank Beard

Melba's Jammin' writes:

>So, what would be your recommendation to me for thickening the
>gravy? Forget the potato starch and the tapioca. I'm thinking I'd
>like to give the arrowroot a shot

Arrowroot is generally at least twice the price of cornstarch and from my one
time order from Penzeys I would not buy it again, since I noticed absolutey not
a whit of difference performance wise from using cornstarch... there's no
discernable thickening power that I could determine, results in exactly the
same transparity and sheen, and maintains its consistancy no differently... and
I doubt there is any meaningful nutritional difference (I've not checked nor do
I intend bothering). The one difference I did notice, a bothersome difference,
is that arrowroot has a "fluffier/poofier/dustier" consistancy which makes it
more messy... no matter how carefully handled it seems to have a mind of it's
own about spreading itself about far and wide.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

In article >,
Bob Pastorio > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> > How do the thickening powers of, say, cornstarch, arrowroot, and flour
> > differ? Not what the outcome looks like or how it keeps, but how they
> > relate in thickening power. I.e., if it takes 1 tbsp of flour to
> > thicken x amount of liquid, it will take how much arrowroot to produce
> > the same thickness in the same amount of liquid?
>
> flour (as roux)= 2 tablespoons to 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 cups liquid
> potato starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
> tapioca starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
> cornstarch= 1 tablespoon to 1 1/2 to 2 cups liquid
> arrowroot= 1 tablespoon to 2 cups liquid
>
> They don't all have the same effects. Potato starch will be more
> opaque than the rest, but it will thin out with boiling. Tapioca
> starch will become stringy if not handled properly. Arrowroot will be
> the shiniest.

Arrowroot thins out again on standing. It needs to be added right
before serving.

Miche

--
If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud.
-- Arlo Guthrie, "Alice's Restaurant"

Miche wrote:

> In article >,
> Bob Pastorio > wrote:
>
>
>>Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>
>>
>>>How do the thickening powers of, say, cornstarch, arrowroot, and flour
>>>differ? Not what the outcome looks like or how it keeps, but how they
>>>relate in thickening power. I.e., if it takes 1 tbsp of flour to
>>>thicken x amount of liquid, it will take how much arrowroot to produce
>>>the same thickness in the same amount of liquid?
>>
>>flour (as roux)= 2 tablespoons to 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 cups liquid
>>potato starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
>>tapioca starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
>>cornstarch= 1 tablespoon to 1 1/2 to 2 cups liquid
>>arrowroot= 1 tablespoon to 2 cups liquid
>>
>>They don't all have the same effects. Potato starch will be more
>>opaque than the rest, but it will thin out with boiling. Tapioca
>>starch will become stringy if not handled properly. Arrowroot will be
>>the shiniest.
>
>
> Arrowroot thins out again on standing. It needs to be added right
> before serving.

I don't agree. It will thin if held on heat for a protracted period or
if overwhisked because of the stress ("sheer") on starch strings.
Otherwise, it works as well as any starch and better than most.

If you want the technical stuff, start here for how the starch is
tested. <http://www.starch.dk/isi/methods/19brabenderNotes.htm>

Here are some definitions:
Pasting temperature The temperature at which the viscosity curve
produced in the Brabender viscograph leaves the baseline as the
temperature rises during the initial heating process. Care is needed
in using this term as other definitions exist.

Peak viscosity The highest viscosity reached during the gelatinisation
of starch usually corresponding to the point where all the granules
are swollen to occupy a high proportion of the available volume with
each in contact with its immediate neighbours. May be conveniently
observed on the Brabender Viscograph. Note that on cooling the starch
paste, the viscosity may rise above this level, but only the initial
shoulder (Corn starch) or true peak (Potato starch) values determined
on the hot paste are termed peak viscosity.

Here are the characteristics of arrowroot.
<http://www.starch.dk/isi/starch/arrowroot.htm>

The black line is when and how hot the "cook" is. The red line tells
you how thick it is over time. That it thins slightly with long
cooking, but thickens upon cooling.

Pastorio

In article >,
Bob Pastorio > wrote:

> Miche wrote:

> > Arrowroot thins out again on standing. It needs to be added right
> > before serving.
>
> I don't agree. It will thin if held on heat for a protracted period or
> if overwhisked because of the stress ("sheer") on starch strings.
> Otherwise, it works as well as any starch and better than most.
>
> If you want the technical stuff, start here for how the starch is
> tested. <http://www.starch.dk/isi/methods/19brabenderNotes.htm>

It's possible that the source of my info was wrong. Thank you for
posting the right answer.

Miche

--
If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud.
-- Arlo Guthrie, "Alice's Restaurant"

In article >,
(PENMART01) wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' writes:
>
> >So, what would be your recommendation to me for thickening the
> >gravy? Forget the potato starch and the tapioca. I'm thinking I'd
> >like to give the arrowroot a shot
>
> Arrowroot is generally at least twice the price of cornstarch and
> from my one time order from Penzeys I would not buy it again, since I
> noticed absolutey not a whit of difference performance wise from
> using cornstarch... there's no discernable thickening power that I
> could determine, results in exactly the same transparity and sheen,
> and maintains its consistancy no differently... and I doubt there is
> any meaningful nutritional difference (I've not checked nor do I
> intend bothering). The one difference I did notice, a bothersome
> difference, is that arrowroot has a "fluffier/poofier/dustier"
> consistancy which makes it more messy... no matter how carefully
> handled it seems to have a mind of it's own about spreading itself
> about far and wide.

Thanks, Sheldon. I'll buy a smidgen (a couple tablespoons) at my food
co-op to try it out.
--
-Barb
State Fair prizewinning jams and jellies for sale at the Burnsville
Senior Citizens Bake Sale, November 19, 2003; 9:00 a.m. -6:00 p.m.
Diamondhead Education Center, Burnsville Parkway & Nicollet Aves,
Burnsville. 952-707-4120

In article >, Melba's
Jammin' > writes:

> (PENMART01) wrote:
>
>> Melba's Jammin' writes:
>>
>> >So, what would be your recommendation to me for thickening the
>> >gravy? Forget the potato starch and the tapioca. I'm thinking I'd
>> >like to give the arrowroot a shot
>>
>> Arrowroot is generally at least twice the price of cornstarch and
>> from my one time order from Penzeys I would not buy it again, since I
>> noticed absolutey not a whit of difference performance wise from
>> using cornstarch... there's no discernable thickening power that I
>> could determine, results in exactly the same transparity and sheen,
>> and maintains its consistancy no differently... and I doubt there is
>> any meaningful nutritional difference (I've not checked nor do I
>> intend bothering). The one difference I did notice, a bothersome
>> difference, is that arrowroot has a "fluffier/poofier/dustier"
>> consistancy which makes it more messy... no matter how carefully
>> handled it seems to have a mind of it's own about spreading itself
>> about far and wide.
>
>Thanks, Sheldon. I'll buy a smidgen (a couple tablespoons) at my food
>co-op to try it out.

Let us know what you think of it.

Penzeys:
Arrowroot Starch 16oz bag 6.90
Arrowroot Starch 8oz bag 3.99

My arrowroot purchase was the 8oz size; 4 bucks

I just recently bought cornstarch ("Cream" brand - new to me - I always used
Argo) at my new local stupidmarket (PriceChopper) for $1.39/lb

Recipes-
Cream Corn Starch: http://www.dialcorp.com/index.cfm?page_id=128

I really found no difference other than price... arrowroot costs about 5 times
the price of corn starch... I don't see how that large a price disparity is
justifiable.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

In article >,
(PENMART01) wrote:

> >> Arrowroot is generally at least twice the price of cornstarch and
> >> from my one time order from Penzeys I would not buy it again,
(snip)
> >Thanks, Sheldon. I'll buy a smidgen (a couple tablespoons) at my
> >food co-op to try it out.
>
> Let us know what you think of it.

I will.

>
> Penzeys:
> Arrowroot Starch 16oz bag 6.90
Arrowroot Starch 8oz bag
> 3.99
>
> My arrowroot purchase was the 8oz size; 4 bucks

I'll bet mine won't run more than 50 cents. :-)
--
-Barb
State Fair prizewinning jams and jellies for sale at the Burnsville
Senior Citizens Bake Sale, November 19, 2003; 9:00 a.m. -6:00 p.m.
Diamondhead Education Center, Burnsville Parkway & Nicollet Aves,
Burnsville. 952-707-4120

Miche wrote:

> In article >,
> Bob Pastorio > wrote:
>
>
>>Miche wrote:
>
>
>>>Arrowroot thins out again on standing. It needs to be added right
>>>before serving.
>>
>>I don't agree. It will thin if held on heat for a protracted period or
>>if overwhisked because of the stress ("sheer") on starch strings.
>>Otherwise, it works as well as any starch and better than most.
>>
>>If you want the technical stuff, start here for how the starch is
>>tested. <http://www.starch.dk/isi/methods/19brabenderNotes.htm>
>
>
> It's possible that the source of my info was wrong. Thank you for
> posting the right answer.

Look at that. Together we struck a blow for scientific accuracy and
nice shiny sauces.

Our work here is done...

Pastorio

In article >,
Bob Pastorio > wrote:

> Miche wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Bob Pastorio > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Miche wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>Arrowroot thins out again on standing. It needs to be added right
> >>>before serving.
> >>
> >>I don't agree. It will thin if held on heat for a protracted period or
> >>if overwhisked because of the stress ("sheer") on starch strings.
> >>Otherwise, it works as well as any starch and better than most.
> >>
> >>If you want the technical stuff, start here for how the starch is
> >>tested. <http://www.starch.dk/isi/methods/19brabenderNotes.htm>
> >
> >
> > It's possible that the source of my info was wrong. Thank you for
> > posting the right answer.
>
> Look at that. Together we struck a blow for scientific accuracy and
> nice shiny sauces.
>
> Our work here is done...

Indeed it is.

Care for a drink?

Miche

--
If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud.
-- Arlo Guthrie, "Alice's Restaurant"

Miche wrote:

> In article >,
> Bob Pastorio > wrote:
>
>
>>Miche wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> Bob Pastorio > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Miche wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Arrowroot thins out again on standing. It needs to be added right
>>>>>before serving.
>>>>
>>>>I don't agree. It will thin if held on heat for a protracted period or
>>>>if overwhisked because of the stress ("sheer") on starch strings.
>>>>Otherwise, it works as well as any starch and better than most.
>>>>
>>>>If you want the technical stuff, start here for how the starch is
>>>>tested. <http://www.starch.dk/isi/methods/19brabenderNotes.htm>
>>>
>>>It's possible that the source of my info was wrong. Thank you for
>>>posting the right answer.
>>
>>Look at that. Together we struck a blow for scientific accuracy and
>>nice shiny sauces.
>>
>>Our work here is done...
>
> Indeed it is.
>
> Care for a drink?

Perhaps on the verandah?

Pastorio (I've always wanted to say that)

Bob Pastorio wrote:
>
> Miche wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Bob Pastorio > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>How do the thickening powers of, say, cornstarch, arrowroot, and flour
> >>>differ? Not what the outcome looks like or how it keeps, but how they
> >>>relate in thickening power. I.e., if it takes 1 tbsp of flour to
> >>>thicken x amount of liquid, it will take how much arrowroot to produce
> >>>the same thickness in the same amount of liquid?
> >>
> >>flour (as roux)= 2 tablespoons to 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 cups liquid
> >>potato starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
> >>tapioca starch= 1 tablespoon per cup liquid
> >>cornstarch= 1 tablespoon to 1 1/2 to 2 cups liquid
> >>arrowroot= 1 tablespoon to 2 cups liquid
> >>
> >>They don't all have the same effects. Potato starch will be more
> >>opaque than the rest, but it will thin out with boiling. Tapioca
> >>starch will become stringy if not handled properly. Arrowroot will be
> >>the shiniest.
> >
> >
> > Arrowroot thins out again on standing. It needs to be added right
> > before serving.
>
> I don't agree. It will thin if held on heat for a protracted period or
> if overwhisked because of the stress ("sheer") on starch strings.
> Otherwise, it works as well as any starch and better than most.
>
> If you want the technical stuff, start here for how the starch is
> tested. <http://www.starch.dk/isi/methods/19brabenderNotes.htm>
>
> Here are some definitions:
> Pasting temperature The temperature at which the viscosity curve
> produced in the Brabender viscograph leaves the baseline as the
> temperature rises during the initial heating process. Care is needed
> in using this term as other definitions exist.
>
> Peak viscosity The highest viscosity reached during the gelatinisation
> of starch usually corresponding to the point where all the granules
> are swollen to occupy a high proportion of the available volume with
> each in contact with its immediate neighbours. May be conveniently
> observed on the Brabender Viscograph. Note that on cooling the starch
> paste, the viscosity may rise above this level, but only the initial
> shoulder (Corn starch) or true peak (Potato starch) values determined
> on the hot paste are termed peak viscosity.
>
> Here are the characteristics of arrowroot.
> <http://www.starch.dk/isi/starch/arrowroot.htm>
>
> The black line is when and how hot the "cook" is. The red line tells
> you how thick it is over time. That it thins slightly with long
> cooking, but thickens upon cooling.
>
> Pastorio


Agreed... I've used Cornstarch, flour, and arrowroot in my cooking and
frankly, have had the BEST luck with arrowroot not breaking on even
overnight refrigeration of leftovers! :-) I use it most of the time now.

But, that's just my personal experience with it....

K.

--
>^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
all owned by cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

In article >,
Bob Pastorio > wrote:

> Miche wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Bob Pastorio > wrote:

> >>Our work here is done...
> >
> > Indeed it is.
> >
> > Care for a drink?
>
> Perhaps on the verandah?
>
> Pastorio (I've always wanted to say that)

Lovely.

Shall I bring a pitcher of mint juleps?

Miche

--
If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud.
-- Arlo Guthrie, "Alice's Restaurant"

Melba's Jammin' > writes:

>I'll bet mine won't run more than 50 cents. :-)

My arrowroot can afford you.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

In article >, Miche
> wrote:
(snip)
> >
> > They don't all have the same effects. Potato starch will be more
> > opaque than the rest, but it will thin out with boiling. Tapioca
> > starch will become stringy if not handled properly. Arrowroot will be
> > the shiniest.
>
> Arrowroot thins out again on standing. It needs to be added right
> before serving.
>
> Miche

Crap! That's not what I want.
How's the munchkin?
--
-Barb
State Fair prizewinning jams and jellies for sale at the Burnsville
Senior Citizens Bake Sale, November 19, 2003; 9:00 a.m. -6:00 p.m.
Diamondhead Education Center, Burnsville Parkway & Nicollet Aves,
Burnsville. 952-707-4120

In article >, Miche
> wrote:
(
> > > It's possible that the source of my info was wrong. Thank you for
> > > posting the right answer.
> >
> > Look at that. Together we struck a blow for scientific accuracy and
> > nice shiny sauces.
> >
> > Our work here is done...
>
> Indeed it is.
>
> Care for a drink?
>
> Miche

He-e-e-e-ey-y-y! He's a married man, fercripesake! I'm tellin' !
--
-Barb
State Fair prizewinning jams and jellies for sale at the Burnsville
Senior Citizens Bake Sale, November 19, 2003; 9:00 a.m. -6:00 p.m.
Diamondhead Education Center, Burnsville Parkway & Nicollet Aves,
Burnsville. 952-707-4120

In article >, Bob Pastorio
> wrote:
(snippage of what led up this public arrangement of a clandestine
liaison)
> Miche wrote:
> >>>It's possible that the source of my info was wrong. Thank you for
> >>>posting the right answer.
> >>
> >>Look at that. Together we struck a blow for scientific accuracy and
> >>nice shiny sauces.
> >>
> >>Our work here is done...
> >
> > Indeed it is.
> >
> > Care for a drink?
>
> Perhaps on the verandah?
>
> Pastorio (I've always wanted to say that)

He-e-e-ey-y-y! You're a married man, fercripesake ! With kids!! And
a wife!! (May I join you and Miche? I've got my camera.)
--
-Barb
State Fair prizewinning jams and jellies for sale at the Burnsville
Senior Citizens Bake Sale, November 19, 2003; 9:00 a.m. -6:00 p.m.
Diamondhead Education Center, Burnsville Parkway & Nicollet Aves,
Burnsville. 952-707-4120

In article >, Miche
> wrote:

> In article >,
> Bob Pastorio > wrote:
>
> > Miche wrote:
> >
> > > In article >,
> > > Bob Pastorio > wrote:
>
> > >>Our work here is done...
> > >
> > > Indeed it is.
> > >
> > > Care for a drink?
> >
> > Perhaps on the verandah?
> >
> > Pastorio (I've always wanted to say that)
>
> Lovely.
>
> Shall I bring a pitcher of mint juleps?
>
> Miche


He-e-e-y-y-y!! I'm bringing my camera and four friends! Gawd!!
--
-Barb
State Fair prizewinning jams and jellies for sale at the Burnsville
Senior Citizens Bake Sale, November 19, 2003; 9:00 a.m. -6:00 p.m.
Diamondhead Education Center, Burnsville Parkway & Nicollet Aves,
Burnsville. 952-707-4120

In article >, Bob Pastorio
> wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
(snip)
>
> > So, Bob, what would be your recommendation to me for thickening the
> > gravy? Forget the potato starch and the tapioca. I'm thinking
> > I'd like to give the arrowroot a shot. Any remarks or opinions
> > about one of the ClearJel products?
>
> Arrowroot will give you a clear, shiny gravy that some people find
> offputting. They're more used to an opaque gravy. You can get the same
> sort of results by using milk or cream to make the slurry.
>
> ClearJel products are good. Either the instant or regular will work
> well. Read the handling instructions on the package. For that matter,
> Therm-Flo starch will do as well and also let you freeze the gravy and
> not have it break when thawed.
>
> Pastorio

Heh! I like that idea (not breaking when thawed).
--
-Barb
State Fair prizewinning jams and jellies for sale at the Burnsville
Senior Citizens Bake Sale, November 19, 2003; 9:00 a.m. -6:00 p.m.
Diamondhead Education Center, Burnsville Parkway & Nicollet Aves,
Burnsville. 952-707-4120

Miche wrote:

> In article >,
> Bob Pastorio > wrote:
>
>
>>Miche wrote:
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> Bob Pastorio > wrote:
>
>>>>Our work here is done...
>>>
>>>Indeed it is.
>>>
>>>Care for a drink?
>>
>>Perhaps on the verandah?
>>
>>Pastorio (I've always wanted to say that)
>
>
> Lovely.
>
> Shall I bring a pitcher of mint juleps?

Bring two. I have a suspicion that a certain Mother Superior will show
up. She always does, and always with her camera.

I'll bring some truffles I just made. Should be a nice party. And
we'll have the photos to remind us.

Pastorio

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> In article >, Miche
> > wrote:
>
>
>>In article >,
>> Bob Pastorio > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Miche wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>In article >,
>>>> Bob Pastorio > wrote:
>>
>>>>>Our work here is done...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Indeed it is.
>>>>
>>>>Care for a drink?
>>>
>>>Perhaps on the verandah?
>>>Pastorio (I've always wanted to say that)
>>
>>Lovely.
>>Shall I bring a pitcher of mint juleps?
>>
>>Miche
>
> He-e-e-y-y-y!! I'm bringing my camera and four friends! Gawd!!

Ooops. Hey, Miche. Better make that at least four pitchers. Figgering
if they're Schaller's friends... know what I mean? Fire up the hot tub
and hide the silverware.

Pastorio

Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>In article >,
(PENMART01) wrote:
>> My arrowroot purchase was the 8oz size; 4 bucks
>
>I'll bet mine won't run more than 50 cents. :-)

I made gravy yesterday, just for fun. Total price: ~78 cents.

That includes a whole can of commercial chicken stock.

--Blair
"Stop taking Sheldon's unthinking
recopied 'advice'."

Bob Pastorio > wrote:
>Look at that. Together we struck a blow for scientific accuracy and
>nice shiny sauces.
>
>Our work here is done...

And tomorrow, someone will complain about the spots
on the forks.

--Blair
"If it were ever done, who'd
show up twice?"

In article >,
Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> In article >, Bob Pastorio
> > wrote:
> (snippage of what led up this public arrangement of a clandestine
> liaison)
> > Miche wrote:
> > >>>It's possible that the source of my info was wrong. Thank you for
> > >>>posting the right answer.
> > >>
> > >>Look at that. Together we struck a blow for scientific accuracy and
> > >>nice shiny sauces.
> > >>
> > >>Our work here is done...
> > >
> > > Indeed it is.
> > >
> > > Care for a drink?
> >
> > Perhaps on the verandah?
> >
> > Pastorio (I've always wanted to say that)
>
> He-e-e-ey-y-y! You're a married man, fercripesake ! With kids!! And
> a wife!! (May I join you and Miche? I've got my camera.)

Sure! The more the merrier!

Miche

--
If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud.
-- Arlo Guthrie, "Alice's Restaurant"

In article >,
Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> In article >, Miche
> > wrote:
> (
> > > > It's possible that the source of my info was wrong. Thank you for
> > > > posting the right answer.
> > >
> > > Look at that. Together we struck a blow for scientific accuracy and
> > > nice shiny sauces.
> > >
> > > Our work here is done...
> >
> > Indeed it is.
> >
> > Care for a drink?
>
> He-e-e-e-ey-y-y! He's a married man, fercripesake! I'm tellin' !

And I'm a married woman. Gonna tell the DH too?

Miche

--
If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud.
-- Arlo Guthrie, "Alice's Restaurant"

In article >,
Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> In article >, Miche
> > wrote:
> (snip)
> > >
> > > They don't all have the same effects. Potato starch will be more
> > > opaque than the rest, but it will thin out with boiling. Tapioca
> > > starch will become stringy if not handled properly. Arrowroot will be
> > > the shiniest.
> >
> > Arrowroot thins out again on standing. It needs to be added right
> > before serving.
>
> Crap! That's not what I want.
> How's the munchkin?

Scary smart and just fine thank you very much.

(And it turns out I was wrong about the arrowroot, so g'head and use it.)

Miche

--
If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud.
-- Arlo Guthrie, "Alice's Restaurant"

In article >,
Bob Pastorio > wrote:

> Miche wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Bob Pastorio > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Miche wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article >,
> >>> Bob Pastorio > wrote:
> >
> >>>>Our work here is done...
> >>>
> >>>Indeed it is.
> >>>
> >>>Care for a drink?
> >>
> >>Perhaps on the verandah?
> >>
> >>Pastorio (I've always wanted to say that)
> >
> >
> > Lovely.
> >
> > Shall I bring a pitcher of mint juleps?
>
> Bring two. I have a suspicion that a certain Mother Superior will show
> up. She always does, and always with her camera.
>
> I'll bring some truffles I just made. Should be a nice party. And
> we'll have the photos to remind us.

This should be a whole lotta fun. Wonder if Her Majesty will bring
pickle hats too.

Miche

--
If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud.
-- Arlo Guthrie, "Alice's Restaurant"