"BabyJane Hudson" > wrote in message
...
> Is the difference between store-bought dried pasta and that made by
> scratch significant enough to go through all that trouble? If so, what
> are the basic things a beginner would need? Name of a good (and
> inexpensive)manual machine? What else? Also, could someone explain to
> me how involved the process is? I've never made anything from scratch.
>
> Thanks in advance for your answers/help!
>
> Miss BabyJane Hudson

In my experience,home made pasta is always egg pasta - like the gg noodles
you get in the store. It is really delicious but as to whether it is worth
the trouble - you need to decide for yourself. You do not need a machine to
get started - just a rolling pin. If you decide you like it and will make it
regularly, then invest in a machine.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

Steve Wertz wrote:

> Anybody wanna buy my Atlas with three attachments (including
> Ravioli-maker). Never used.

How much? You can email me.

nancy

I think it's kinda fun to make your own fresh pasta; if you like you can
make it in colors by adding pureed veggies (eg, spinach, bell peppers) to
the dough or with tasty flecks like black pepper or parsley. Various
leftovers can also be turned into ravioli if you like.

Fresh pasta does have a different taste and texture than dried.

Does it make sense economically to make your own fresh pasta - almost
certainly not, especially if your time has value.

The traditional way of making fresh pasta involves just flour, egg (1 egg
per 100 gm flour per serving), a surface to work the beaten egg into the
flour and knead the dough, a rolling pin, and a knife (roll the pasta out to
a very thin sheet, roll it up, and cut into noodles). Most people today use
a pasta machine (or attachment to a stand mixer) to roll the dough out.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Louis Cohen
Living la vida loca at N37° 43' 7.9" W122° 8' 42.8"

Bah! Humbug!

"BabyJane Hudson" > wrote in message
...
> Is the difference between store-bought dried pasta and that made by
> scratch significant enough to go through all that trouble? If so, what
> are the basic things a beginner would need? Name of a good (and
> inexpensive)manual machine? What else? Also, could someone explain to
> me how involved the process is? I've never made anything from scratch.
>
> Thanks in advance for your answers/help!
>
> Miss BabyJane Hudson

BabyJane Hudson wrote:

> Is the difference between store-bought dried pasta and that made by
> scratch significant enough to go through all that trouble? If so, what
> are the basic things a beginner would need? Name of a good (and
> inexpensive)manual machine? What else? Also, could someone explain to
> me how involved the process is? I've never made anything from scratch.
>
> Thanks in advance for your answers/help!
>
> Miss BabyJane Hudson

there is a considerable difference in texture and taste. if you never
try can't understand the difference.
see he
http://www.annamariavolpi.com/page28.html
there are all the explanations. best way to go is the hand cranck
machine to save time, even if i prefer to do it by hand.

ciao, anna maria


www.annamariavolpi.com

"BabyJane Hudson" wrote in message
...

> Is the difference between store-bought dried pasta and that made by
> scratch significant enough to go through all that trouble?

Yes, and it's not much trouble at all. Assumming you have the ingredients on
hand you could probably make and cook homemade pasta faster than you could
go out, buy and cook store-bought dried. Store bought dried pasta is usually
just semolina flour and water (no eggs). When I make pasta at home I use
eggs.

>If so, what
> are the basic things a beginner would need?

A rolling pin is the probably the bare minimum you'd want. An Italian friend
of mine told me that her grandmother used to make pasta with just her hands.

>Name of a good (and
> inexpensive)manual machine?

I believe mine is an Atlas. The hand cranked pasta machines you'll see at
any cooking store are just fine. They aren't all that expensive. I think
mine was twenty something dollars when I got it a number of years ago. I
doubt you'd end up paying over fifty dolars probably less.

>What else? Also, could someone explain to
> me how involved the process is?

Simple, first you mix up the dough. You may already have a cookbook with a
recipe, if not you can google one up pretty easily. Once you have the dough
you run it through the pasta machine (it will have different thickness
settings) or roll it out until it is the desired thickness. From there you
cut it for it's intended purpose. It ususally a good idea to refrigerate the
dough a bit before rolling it out, but it's not alway necessary.

Obviously, I'm not giving you detailed instructions just an overview.

>I've never made anything from scratch.

In that case you may want to try something easier like maybe a grilled
cheese sandwich.

Seriously, I work with dough/flour a lot. I make bread once or twice a week
so making the jump over to pasta dough is not that big of a deal. Working
with dough of any kind involves a certain amount of 'feel' which only comes
from experience. Don't get discouraged if you don't get the best results
right away.

-Mike

In article <XpoAb.82990$xV6.58609@lakeread04>, "Mike Pearce"
> writes:

>Assumming you have the ingredients on
>hand you could probably make and cook homemade pasta faster than you could
>go out, buy and cook store-bought dried.

At some point one must've gone out to buy those ingredients for homemade pasta,
just "assumming".

>Store bought dried pasta is usually just semolina flour and water (no eggs).

Well, the store bought dried pasta with eggs is called egg noodles, duh... and
many of the more popular pasta brands sell the same dago shapes in an egg
version... Barrila even uses a different color box to distinguish the egg
versions... but more often than not I don't want egg pasta/noodle... in fact
for most all dishes with a red sauce or fish sauce I couldn't stomach the egg
version... can you imagine a linguini with clam sauce with an egg pasta...
BLECH... almost as rotten as sprinkling that dish with grated cheese... VOMIT!

>When I make pasta at home I use eggs.

You're making egg noodles... but there's absolutely no reason one couldn't omit
the egg. Many of the store bought "fresh" pastas do not contain any egg. And
store bought dried pasta is not really dry, it contains about 15% water by
weight.

Other than a few minutes cooking time I honestly don't find any difference
between fresh or dried. I wouldn't consider making my own pasta unless it was
for stuffing, ie. ravioli, kreplach, wonton, and such, so that I'd know for
sure what/who is in it... and these days I no longer bother with rollling out
my own noodles, what with fresh wrapper noodles so readily available.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

"BabyJane Hudson" > wrote in message
...
> Is the difference between store-bought dried pasta and that made by
> scratch significant enough to go through all that trouble? If so, what
> are the basic things a beginner would need? Name of a good (and
> inexpensive)manual machine? What else? Also, could someone explain to
> me how involved the process is? I've never made anything from scratch.
>
> Thanks in advance for your answers/help!
>
> Miss BabyJane Hudson

I feel that the quality as good or better than dried, but no better than
"fresh" pasta that's readily available. I own an Atlas and still make pasta
for the fun of it. However, quality is not that much better unless you want
to make some specialty (spinach, pepper) pasta.

"PENMART01" wrote in message
...

>"Mike Pearce" writes:
>
> >Assumming you have the ingredients on
> >hand you could probably make and cook homemade pasta faster than you
could
> >go out, buy and cook store-bought dried.
>
> At some point one must've gone out to buy those ingredients for homemade
pasta,
> just "assumming".

Yup, you are right. I'm more likely to have the ingredients on hand than the
store-bought pasta so I was "assumming" that for everyone. Probably a bad
assumption.

Yeah, and I can't spell or type for shit.

>
> >Store bought dried pasta is usually just semolina flour and water (no
eggs).
>
> Well, the store bought dried pasta with eggs is called egg noodles, duh...

Then I guess I was fairly accurate with my description.

> for most all dishes with a red sauce or fish sauce I couldn't stomach the
egg
> version... can you imagine a linguini with clam sauce with an egg pasta...
> BLECH... almost as rotten as sprinkling that dish with grated cheese...
VOMIT!

I've noticed that you seem to be not too fond of seafood/dairy combinations.
In most cases I agree with you, but I don't get as worked up about it. <g>


> >When I make pasta at home I use eggs.
>
> You're making egg noodles... but there's absolutely no reason one couldn't
omit
> the egg. Many of the store bought "fresh" pastas do not contain any egg.
And
> store bought dried pasta is not really dry, it contains about 15% water by
> weight.

I've made it without egg. I really don't eat pasta/noodles all that much.
Almost every time I make pasta/noodles at home it is for some sort of
stuffed dish like ravioli.

> I wouldn't consider making my own pasta unless it was
> for stuffing, ie. ravioli, kreplach, wonton, and such, so that I'd know
for
> sure what/who is in it... and these days I no longer bother with rollling
out
> my own noodles, what with fresh wrapper noodles so readily available.

One of my main motivations for making pasta/noodles from scratch is that I
like to make things from scratch. An added benefit is that I get to control
what goes into the food. I think the pasta it tastes better, but that could
all be in my head and that's fine with me.

-Mike

"Mike Pearce" > writes:

>almost as rotten as sprinkling that dish with grated cheese...
>VOMIT!
>
>I've noticed that you seem to be not too fond of seafood/dairy combinations.
>In most cases I agree with you, but I don't get as worked up about it. <g>

Not fish with dairy, fish with cheese.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

"Mike Pearce" > writes:

>One of my main motivations for making pasta/noodles from scratch is that I
>like to make things from scratch.

No argument from me.

>An added benefit is that I get to control what goes into the food.

Not really much to control with pasta ingredients... do you farm and mill your
own flour, eggs from your own chickens, water from your own RO unit?

>I think the pasta it tastes better, but that could
>all be in my head and that's fine with me.

Now that's an honest plan... first I've heard here in many years... because
that's all that really counts.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

>Is the difference between store-bought dried pasta and that made by
>scratch significant enough to go through all that trouble?

Homemade is cheaper; a pound of pasta goes for about 50 cents on sale; a pound
of flour can be had for as little as 15 cents; I've never priced semolina.

>Name of a good (and
>inexpensive)manual machine?

.. . . so obviously, you can recover your investment very quickly. (I use an
Atlas.)

Neil

"PENMART01" wrote in message
...
> "Mike Pearce" writes:
>
> >An added benefit is that I get to control what goes into the food.
>
> Not really much to control with pasta ingredients... do you farm and mill
your
> own flour, eggs from your own chickens, water from your own RO unit?

I was speaking generally of making things from scratch here not necessarily
just pasta, but I would like to have my own chickens and at least mill my
own flour. I think milling flour is about the only one of those things that
may happen in the foreseeable future. For now a new meat grinder is higher
on my kitchen priority list than a grain mill at the moment. Actually,
reorganizing my pantry is at the top of the list and I'm avoiding that job
right now.

> >I think the pasta it tastes better, but that could
> >all be in my head and that's fine with me.
>
> Now that's an honest plan... first I've heard here in many years...
because
> that's all that really counts.

Maybe, but suggest to most people that they might like something because of
the way they perceive it and you better start ducking.

-Mike

In article >, Steve Wertz
> writes:

>(PENMART01) wrote:
>
>>store bought dried pasta is not really dry, it contains about 15% water by
>>weight.
>
>As packaged? Somebody has bumped their head again.
>
>Where do you come up with this shit, anyway?


Actually it's 12% water content.

http://www.therepertoire.com/taste/what_is.htm


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

BabyJane Hudson wrote:

>
> Thanks in advance for your answers/help!

Homemade pasta made from old, tasteless wheat is not worth it. I use a
duram/semolina combo and it was worth it. If you plan to use supermarket
flour, go with a good dry pasta instead. I use De Cecco, as it is
available nearby.
blacksalt
>

"Steve Wertz" wrote in message ...
> (PENMART01) wrote:
>
> >store bought dried pasta is not really dry, it contains about 15% water
by
> >weight.
>
> As packaged? Somebody has bumped their head again.
>
> Where do you come up with this shit, anyway?

I read recently that flour is about 14% water by weight. Fifteen percent
doesn't sound out of the realm of possibility to me, not that I care enough
to research it.

-Mike

PENMART01 wrote:
>
> In article >, kalanamak >
> writes:
>
> >BabyJane Hudson wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance for your answers/help!
> >
> >Homemade pasta made from old, tasteless wheat is not worth it. I use a
> >duram/semolina combo
>
> Combo? Semolina IS duram wheat. duh
>
Duh, I know that, and I suspect you've been around long enough to know I
know that, but the Italian markets (all three of them) that I have
haunted over the last few years have a flour that is fine...called duram
flour, and something very slightly more grainy, called semolina. Make
the pasta from all semolina and it is a little harder to
handle....works, but you have to fuss a bit more. BTW, semolina makes a
nice bread, although, for some reason, it doesn't keep that well.
A wheat product of unknown type of wheat ( but I suspect soft wheat)
ground to the same texture is called semolina in Indian markets, and is
used in the mini-pooris for pani poori, and in a cooked, pudding-like
dessert my IL's called halwa. It had no sesame in it. I therefore
conclude that "semolina" has an accepted reference to texture/grind in
its meaning.
Your quote (from the first source a googling of "semolina" comes up
with) supports my opinion.
blacksalt

"Mike Pearce" writes:

>"sqwertz" wrote:
>> (PENMART01) wrote:
>>
>> >store bought dried pasta is not really dry, it contains about 15% water
>> >by weight.
>>
>> As packaged? Somebody has bumped their head again.
>>
>> Where do you come up with this shit, anyway?
>
>I read recently that flour is about 14% water by weight. Fifteen percent
>doesn't sound out of the realm of possibility to me, not that I care enough
>to research it.
>
>-Mike

Being more intelligent than Sqwertz is no great accomplishment.. each of my six
cats possess a higher IQ... and little Jack is retarded.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

In article >, Steve Wertz
> writes:

> (PENMART01) wrote:
>
>>In article >, Steve Wertz
> writes:
>>
>>>(PENMART01) wrote:
>>>
>>>>store bought dried pasta is not really dry, it contains


about


>>>>15% water by weight.
>>>
>>>As packaged? Somebody has bumped their head again.
>>>
>>>Where do you come up with this shit, anyway?
>>
>>
>>Actually it's 12% water content.
>
>Told ya.
>

You don't tell me, you piece of garbage... I said *ABOUT*... you ignoranus with
a lower IQ than the hole in a ziti.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

In article >, kalanamak >
writes:

>BabyJane Hudson wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your answers/help!
>
>Homemade pasta made from old, tasteless wheat is not worth it. I use a
>duram/semolina combo

Combo? Semolina IS duram wheat. duh

semolina [seh-muh-LEE-nuh]
1. Durum wheat that is more coarsely ground than normal wheat flours, a result
that is often obtained by sifting out the finer flour. Most good PASTA is made
from semolina. It is also used to make GNOCCHI, puddings and soups and in
various confections.

© Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995
based on THE FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst.

---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 10:52:25 -0500, BabyJane Hudson
> wrote:

>Is the difference between store-bought dried pasta and that made by
>scratch significant enough to go through all that trouble? If so, what
>are the basic things a beginner would need? Name of a good (and
>inexpensive)manual machine? What else? Also, could someone explain to
>me how involved the process is? I've never made anything from scratch.
>
>Thanks in advance for your answers/help!
>
I have not done home made pasta, but I probably will. I have some
durum semolina for that purpose.

But, for regular use, there are really good dried pastas available in
Manhattan at least. I take the 14 bus to Buonitalia at Chelsea Market
for dried pasta. Funky looking stuff made in old bronze dies that are
quite rough.

Home made lets you put an egg in it, and roll it to whatever thicknes
you want.





Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


The sound of a Great Blue Heron's wingbeats going by your head

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 16:34:41 -0600, "TNTYZ" >
wrote:

>
>"BabyJane Hudson" > wrote

>> Is the difference between store-bought dried pasta and that made by
>> scratch significant enough to go through all that trouble? If so, what
>> are the basic things a beginner would need? Name of a good (and
>> inexpensive)manual machine? What else? Also, could someone explain to
>> me how involved the process is? I've never made anything from scratch.
>
>I feel that the quality as good or better than dried, but no better than
>"fresh" pasta that's readily available. I own an Atlas and still make pasta
>for the fun of it. However, quality is not that much better unless you want
>to make some specialty (spinach, pepper) pasta.

There's no real economic advantage (unless you make pounds and pounds
every day), but it *is* fun. "Readily available" 'fresh' pasta hasn't
reached my corner of the world. Homemade cooks quickly, and is
(disasters excepted) tender and, well, fresh. eBay has Atlas and
Atlas-type machines starting at around $10. I didn't check the final
price of recent 'sold' items. Other than that, you need flour, eggs,
water and salt. And a way to dry the noodles -- as I mentioned, I've
been using a broomstick suspended between 2 chair backs. Just got a
sort of clothes-pole arrangement I'm eager to try.

From 'Julia Child & Company'

Makes enough for 8 servings or 2 boxes of commercial egg noodles

1-3/4 cups all-purpose flour
2 (US Grade) "Large" eggs
2 to 4 Tblsp cold water

Put flour in a bowl. Make a well in the center and break in the eggs;
blend then with 2 Tblsp of the water and gradudally mix in the
surrounding flour. Blend vigorously to make a stiff dough; turn out
onto a work surface and knead vigorously with the heel of your hand,
adding droplets more water to unblended bits.

OR

Put flour, eggs, & 2 Tblsp water in a food processor. Blend (with
metal cutting blade) until the dough forms a ball or until it can be
pressed together in a mass (or sprinkle a little bit water). Remove
from machine and knead to blend. Dough should be firm. If soft or
sticky, knead in a sprinkling of flour.

JC's Remarks:
"...your own experience will guide you, eventually, but don't be
afraid of the dough. Not much can go wrong as long as it is stiff and
dry enough to pass through the kneading and cutting rollers of your
machine. Tenderness and exquisiteness of texture can come later and
will be part of your own particular secret genius with the noodle."

Dough can rest for half an hour, but cover with plastic wrap to
prevent a crust forming. Cut dough in half (cover remaining half with
plastic wrap). Flatten dough into a hand-size cake and pinch one end
to feed through rollers at widest opening. Crank it through; fold it
in half; and repeat several times 'til dough is smooth and fairly
rectangular. Brush dough lightly with flour if it looks like it might
be thinking about sticking. Now try the next lower setting and crank
it through; lower setting and crank; etc. Julia says setting #4 is
usually good for noodles. By this time, you will have had to cut the
dough in half and crank in separate pieces. Hang dough on a broom
handle to dry *briefly* -- 4-5 minutes. Then crank dough through
cutters. Cook in a large amount of boiling, salted water for a very
brief time -- 2-3 minutes -- fresh noodles cook quickly.

As Julia says, don't be afraid of it and don't expect it to be perfect
at first. It's really a lot easier to do than describe. If course,
it's a *lot* easier if you have a helper or 3 hands.

I usually halve all ingredients, which seems to work fine for a
smaller amount.

You can let the noodles dry thoroughly (several hours, depending on
the humidity) and then freeze them. They will take somewhat longer to
cook, but still less time than boxed pasta.

I have made pasta a few times from scratch. It was difficult to get it
perfect. A consideration is to consider making the dough in a bread
machine. Perfect every time. No question that fresh pasta is the best
but for the amount of times I make pasta, I use store bought dry. But
then my favourite are spaghetti and elbows.

On 06 Dec 2003 20:27:12 GMT, (PENMART01) wrote:

>Other than a few minutes cooking time I honestly don't find any difference
>between fresh or dried.

Perhaps you know something about cooking and kitchen-cleaning but, I'm
afraid, "good taste" (in every sense) isn't your forte...

"Peter Aitken" > wrote in message .com>...
> "BabyJane Hudson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Is the difference between store-bought dried pasta and that made by
> > scratch significant enough to go through all that trouble? If so, what
> > are the basic things a beginner would need? Name of a good (and
> > inexpensive)manual machine? What else? Also, could someone explain to
> > me how involved the process is? I've never made anything from scratch.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your answers/help!
> >
> > Miss BabyJane Hudson
>
> In my experience,home made pasta is always egg pasta - like the gg noodles
> you get in the store. It is really delicious but as to whether it is worth
> the trouble - you need to decide for yourself. You do not need a machine to
> get started - just a rolling pin. If you decide you like it and will make it
> regularly, then invest in a machine.

Home made pasta is definitely different than commercially produced
dried pasta. Indeed, they are two entirely different products, each
with its own merits and uses. Do not make the mistake that one is
better than the other; they each have their own applications for which
they easily exceed the other.

I would suggest reading on the subject of fresh pasta before investing
time and money in equipment. If the procedure appears to be something
that would not put you off, and the recommended sauces appeal to your
palate, then you would be a likely candidate. The X-factor in all of
this is that they process, for all of its hard work (and it is work)
can be very comforting in and of itself, even when done entirely by
hand. (Any good reading on the subject should also adequately discuss
various methods so that the reader can make an educated guess as to
what equipment would best suit him/her; i.e. food processor and
kneading/rolling machine -- whether motorized or not, or completely by
hand, including rolling out pasta by hand with a rolling pin).

It might be worth noting that the home pasta maker machines which mix
and extrude the dough into the finished pasta were (when I last
investigated, about a year and a half ago) unworthy products. The
cast of heavy duty metal dies and strong motors would make such
products prohibitively expensive. All that was available at retail
was inherently inferior. The plastic dies were not strong enough to
withstand the pressures required to extrude dough of proper
consistency.

A couple of good books on pasta are "Beard on Pasta" and Marcella
Hazan's "Essentials Of Classic Italian Cooking". There are countless
others, as well. The Williams-Sonoma "Pasta" looks good at first
glance (I've got it stored in an inconvenient place, so I can't
refresh on it right now).

GaryO

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 11:14:44 -0500, Nancy Young wrote:

> Steve Wertz wrote:
>
>> Anybody wanna buy my Atlas with three attachments (including
>> Ravioli-maker). Never used.
>
> How much? You can email me.
>
> nancy

Nancy if you don't buy his I "ve got one in Colorado. I don't know the
make but it has only been used a few times.
--
JakeInHartsel

Glenn Jacobs wrote:
>
> On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 11:14:44 -0500, Nancy Young wrote:
>
> > Steve Wertz wrote:
> >
> >> Anybody wanna buy my Atlas with three attachments (including
> >> Ravioli-maker). Never used.
> >
> > How much? You can email me.
> >
> > nancy
>
> Nancy if you don't buy his I "ve got one in Colorado. I don't know the
> make but it has only been used a few times.
> --
> JakeInHartsel

Sure, email me how much and what attachments you have. I've been
thinking of making my own ravioli, etc.

nancy

Steve Wertz wrote:

> >> On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 11:14:44 -0500, Nancy Young wrote:

> >> > How much? You can email me.

> Sorry - I didn't see your followup until now. I despise shipping
> stuff, so am looking at selling it locally.
>
> I know.. I know... Why did I even mention it here, then? Sorry.

No problem.

nancy

"BabyJane Hudson" > wrote in message
...
> Is the difference between store-bought dried pasta and that made by
> scratch significant enough to go through all that trouble? If so, what
> are the basic things a beginner would need? Name of a good (and
> inexpensive)manual machine? What else? Also, could someone explain to
> me how involved the process is? I've never made anything from scratch.
>
> Thanks in advance for your answers/help!
>
> Miss BabyJane Hudson

personally i think homemade pasta is MUCH better. i used to roll the pasta
out by hand (rolling pin).... it really is a pain and it takes forever to
make dinner... but in the end so worth it. my mom got me a pasta roller for
my birthday.... hand crank. it's a TON easier but i still get to have fun
making it.