"Paul M. Cook©®" wrote:

> I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one who has
> consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I mean I fancy
> myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always seem to have to
> make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes to it to get it to come
> out right. I have so much better success with other cookbooks it seems.
>
> Paul
This is odd. I follow the old JOC to the letter for meat dishes, which I
can't sample as I cook, and everyone raves and has seconds. I've never
had a flop. The bisquits, cakes, pies, etc. all turn out beautifully.
I haven't cooked from the NJOC.
blacksalt

For a few days I had been looking for good recipies for hummus and
falafels. Then, at work, my boss asked me to make baba ganoush from the
recipe in his "Joy of Cooking". I was surprised to find a recipe for baba
ganoush in JoC, so I looked in the index, and found recipies for hummus as
well as falafel. When I came home from work, I immediately opened my JoC
and looked for the falafel recipe in the index. No luck. I searched for
hummus. It wasn't there either. It doesn't even have a recipe for baba
ganoush. I have the 2004 spiral bound edition. Where are the recipies?
I'm very dissapointed.

-Adam

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 22:31:43 GMT, "Adam Schwartz"
> > wrote:
>
> > For a few days I had been looking for good recipies for hummus and
> >falafels. Then, at work, my boss asked me to make baba ganoush from the
> >recipe in his "Joy of Cooking". I was surprised to find a recipe for
baba
> >ganoush in JoC, so I looked in the index, and found recipies for hummus
as
> >well as falafel. When I came home from work, I immediately opened my JoC
> >and looked for the falafel recipe in the index. No luck. I searched for
> >hummus. It wasn't there either. It doesn't even have a recipe for baba
> >ganoush. I have the 2004 spiral bound edition. Where are the recipies?
> >I'm very dissapointed.
>
> There are 2 Joy of Cooking books: The All New Joy of Cooking
> published sometime in the late 90's, and the original, last
> revised in 1975 and distributed by a dozen or so publishers.
>
> The original Joy of Cooking does not contain the recipes you
> mentioned, so it must be in the newer version.


I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one who has
consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I mean I fancy
myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always seem to have to
make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes to it to get it to come
out right. I have so much better success with other cookbooks it seems.

Paul

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 22:31:43 GMT, "Adam Schwartz"
> > wrote:
>
> > For a few days I had been looking for good recipies for hummus and
> >falafels. Then, at work, my boss asked me to make baba ganoush from the
> >recipe in his "Joy of Cooking". I was surprised to find a recipe for
baba
> >ganoush in JoC, so I looked in the index, and found recipies for hummus
as
> >well as falafel. When I came home from work, I immediately opened my JoC
> >and looked for the falafel recipe in the index. No luck. I searched for
> >hummus. It wasn't there either. It doesn't even have a recipe for baba
> >ganoush. I have the 2004 spiral bound edition. Where are the recipies?
> >I'm very dissapointed.
>
> There are 2 Joy of Cooking books: The All New Joy of Cooking
> published sometime in the late 90's, and the original, last
> revised in 1975 and distributed by a dozen or so publishers.
>
> The original Joy of Cooking does not contain the recipes you
> mentioned, so it must be in the newer version.


I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one who has
consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I mean I fancy
myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always seem to have to
make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes to it to get it to come
out right. I have so much better success with other cookbooks it seems.

Paul

I don't know the answer to your "Joy of Cooking" question, but this is an
excellent and simple recipe for baba ganoush.
--------------------------
Baba Ganoush
1 med. eggplant
1/4 cup lemon juice (or less)
1/4 cup tahini
1€“2 galic cloves (or powder to taste)
1 tsp olive oil
salt (optional)
parsley (optional)
Preheat oven to 400. Pierce the eggplant with a fork a few times and bake for
about 40 min or until tender and somewhat deflated. Mash, chop, or puree the
eggplant depending on how you want it. Then add the other ingredients. Serve at
room temperature.
-------------------------------------------

Baba Ganoush
1 med. eggplant
1/4 cup lemon juice (or less)
1/4 cup tahini
1€“2 galic cloves (or powder to taste)
1 tsp olive oil
salt (optional)
parsley (optional)
Preheat oven to 400. Pierce the eggplant with a fork a few times and bake for
about 40 min or until tender and somewhat deflated. Mash, chop, or puree the
eggplant depending on how you want it. Then add the other ingredients. Serve at
room temperature.
---------------------------------



> For a few days I had been looking for good recipies for hummus and
>falafels. Then, at work, my boss asked me to make baba ganoush from the
>recipe in his "Joy of Cooking". I was surprised to find a recipe for baba
>ganoush in JoC, so I looked in the index, and found recipies for hummus as
>well as falafel. When I came home from work, I immediately opened my JoC
>and looked for the falafel recipe in the index. No luck. I searched for
>hummus. It wasn't there either. It doesn't even have a recipe for baba
>ganoush. I have the 2004 spiral bound edition. Where are the recipies?
>I'm very dissapointed.
>
>-Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I don't know the answer to your "Joy of Cooking" question, but this is an
excellent and simple recipe for baba ganoush.
--------------------------
Baba Ganoush
1 med. eggplant
1/4 cup lemon juice (or less)
1/4 cup tahini
1€“2 galic cloves (or powder to taste)
1 tsp olive oil
salt (optional)
parsley (optional)
Preheat oven to 400. Pierce the eggplant with a fork a few times and bake for
about 40 min or until tender and somewhat deflated. Mash, chop, or puree the
eggplant depending on how you want it. Then add the other ingredients. Serve at
room temperature.
-------------------------------------------

Baba Ganoush
1 med. eggplant
1/4 cup lemon juice (or less)
1/4 cup tahini
1€“2 galic cloves (or powder to taste)
1 tsp olive oil
salt (optional)
parsley (optional)
Preheat oven to 400. Pierce the eggplant with a fork a few times and bake for
about 40 min or until tender and somewhat deflated. Mash, chop, or puree the
eggplant depending on how you want it. Then add the other ingredients. Serve at
room temperature.
---------------------------------



> For a few days I had been looking for good recipies for hummus and
>falafels. Then, at work, my boss asked me to make baba ganoush from the
>recipe in his "Joy of Cooking". I was surprised to find a recipe for baba
>ganoush in JoC, so I looked in the index, and found recipies for hummus as
>well as falafel. When I came home from work, I immediately opened my JoC
>and looked for the falafel recipe in the index. No luck. I searched for
>hummus. It wasn't there either. It doesn't even have a recipe for baba
>ganoush. I have the 2004 spiral bound edition. Where are the recipies?
>I'm very dissapointed.
>
>-Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

"Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
:

> I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one who
> has consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I mean
> I fancy myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always
> seem to have to make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes to
> it to get it to come out right. I have so much better success with
> other cookbooks it seems.
>
> Paul
>

Must be you, Paul. <G> I've used an early 70's edition for years and have
absolutely never had a problem or failure, save a few that were in fact my
own fault.

--
Wayne in Phoenix

If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.

"Wayne" > wrote in message
...
> "Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
> :
>
> > I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one who
> > has consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I mean
> > I fancy myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always
> > seem to have to make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes to
> > it to get it to come out right. I have so much better success with
> > other cookbooks it seems.
> >
> > Paul
> >
>
> Must be you, Paul. <G> I've used an early 70's edition for years and have
> absolutely never had a problem or failure, save a few that were in fact my
> own fault.
>

Maybe it's my stove? Yeah, that's it.

Paul

"Wayne" > wrote in message
...
> "Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
> :
>
> > I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one who
> > has consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I mean
> > I fancy myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always
> > seem to have to make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes to
> > it to get it to come out right. I have so much better success with
> > other cookbooks it seems.
> >
> > Paul
> >
>
> Must be you, Paul. <G> I've used an early 70's edition for years and have
> absolutely never had a problem or failure, save a few that were in fact my
> own fault.
>

Maybe it's my stove? Yeah, that's it.

Paul

"Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
:

>
> "Wayne" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> > I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one
>> > who has consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques?
>> > I mean I fancy myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I
>> > always seem to have to make a JC recipe a couple of times and make
>> > changes to it to get it to come out right. I have so much better
>> > success with other cookbooks it seems.
>> >
>> > Paul
>> >
>>
>> Must be you, Paul. <G> I've used an early 70's edition for years and
>> have absolutely never had a problem or failure, save a few that were
>> in fact my own fault.
>>
>
> Maybe it's my stove? Yeah, that's it.
>
> Paul
>
>

Now, a serious question... Can you be more specific about the kinds of
trouble you've been having with JOC recipes? Which recipes, what kinds
of food, what preparation methods, etc.? I or someone else here may have
some insight as to what's going wrong for you.

Cheers!

--
Wayne in Phoenix

If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.

"Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
:

>
> "Wayne" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> > I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one
>> > who has consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques?
>> > I mean I fancy myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I
>> > always seem to have to make a JC recipe a couple of times and make
>> > changes to it to get it to come out right. I have so much better
>> > success with other cookbooks it seems.
>> >
>> > Paul
>> >
>>
>> Must be you, Paul. <G> I've used an early 70's edition for years and
>> have absolutely never had a problem or failure, save a few that were
>> in fact my own fault.
>>
>
> Maybe it's my stove? Yeah, that's it.
>
> Paul
>
>

Now, a serious question... Can you be more specific about the kinds of
trouble you've been having with JOC recipes? Which recipes, what kinds
of food, what preparation methods, etc.? I or someone else here may have
some insight as to what's going wrong for you.

Cheers!

--
Wayne in Phoenix

If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.

>I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one who has
>consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I mean I fancy
>myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always seem to have to
>make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes to it to get it to come
>out right. I have so much better success with other cookbooks it seems.
>
>Paul
>
That book basically taught me how to cook. When I went to college I moved into
a co-op where you had to do weekly chores. I was 18 and chose to be the dinner
cook for 50 one day a week. Before this, I'd mainly done some desserts and
some breakfast meals and that's it. The stewards who ordered the food assigned
an entree and then you could decide on the sides and dessert. Without Joy, I
would have been so lost, as it explained how to do every step so well, and I
was making recipes I'd never had before, let alone had to cook. Yeah, shrimp
souffle! At the time I wouldn't even eat shrimp and never tasted the souffle I
made. Some of the people who lived there and boarded there told me that they
made it a point to be around for meals on the days I cooked.
Better than that one poor girl who served raw chicken one day.

My husband bought me a copy as a wedding gift in 1977 but the thing fell apart
so I had to get the newer edition.
I tried to make Yorkshire pudding, which I had never seen in my life, and I
still use that recipe. I made croissants from JOC and they turned out great,
but it was one of those things I'll only do once. About the only recipe that I
tried that didn't work was for their chocolate mousse. Mine didn't set up.

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 04:23:02 GMT, Wayne >
wrote:

> "Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
> :
>
> > I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one who
> > has consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I mean
> > I fancy myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always
> > seem to have to make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes to
> > it to get it to come out right. I have so much better success with
> > other cookbooks it seems.
> >
> > Paul
> >
>
> Must be you, Paul. <G> I've used an early 70's edition for years and have
> absolutely never had a problem or failure, save a few that were in fact my
> own fault.

Ditto


Practice safe eating - always use condiments

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 04:23:02 GMT, Wayne >
wrote:

> "Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
> :
>
> > I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one who
> > has consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I mean
> > I fancy myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always
> > seem to have to make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes to
> > it to get it to come out right. I have so much better success with
> > other cookbooks it seems.
> >
> > Paul
> >
>
> Must be you, Paul. <G> I've used an early 70's edition for years and have
> absolutely never had a problem or failure, save a few that were in fact my
> own fault.

Ditto


Practice safe eating - always use condiments

sf wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 04:23:02 GMT, Wayne >
> wrote:
>
>> "Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> > I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one who
>> > has consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I mean
>> > I fancy myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always
>> > seem to have to make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes to
>> > it to get it to come out right. I have so much better success with
>> > other cookbooks it seems.
>> >
>> > Paul
>> >
>>
>> Must be you, Paul. <G> I've used an early 70's edition for years and have
>> absolutely never had a problem or failure, save a few that were in fact my
>> own fault.

Like substituting un-like ingredients? Like changing *anything* the first time
trying a new recipe?
Been there, done that. *NOT* the fault of the cookbook or the recipe at all.

>
> Ditto

Me three.

>
BOB

sf wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 04:23:02 GMT, Wayne >
> wrote:
>
>> "Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> > I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one who
>> > has consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I mean
>> > I fancy myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always
>> > seem to have to make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes to
>> > it to get it to come out right. I have so much better success with
>> > other cookbooks it seems.
>> >
>> > Paul
>> >
>>
>> Must be you, Paul. <G> I've used an early 70's edition for years and have
>> absolutely never had a problem or failure, save a few that were in fact my
>> own fault.

Like substituting un-like ingredients? Like changing *anything* the first time
trying a new recipe?
Been there, done that. *NOT* the fault of the cookbook or the recipe at all.

>
> Ditto

Me three.

>
BOB

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 00:02:46 -0500, Steve Wertz
> wrote:

> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 04:47:19 GMT, "Paul M. Cook©®"
> > wrote:
>
> >Maybe it's my stove? Yeah, that's it.
>
> Only a very small percentage of the recipes in JoC use just a
> stove. Most require an oven. Maybe that's your problem ;-)
>
I think you're onto something Steve! I had an oven problem
(many years ago) which turned out to be the thermostat - but
not a calibration problem. Once the thermostat was replaced,
everthing was fine.



Practice safe eating - always use condiments

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 00:02:46 -0500, Steve Wertz
> wrote:

> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 04:47:19 GMT, "Paul M. Cook©®"
> > wrote:
>
> >Maybe it's my stove? Yeah, that's it.
>
> Only a very small percentage of the recipes in JoC use just a
> stove. Most require an oven. Maybe that's your problem ;-)
>
I think you're onto something Steve! I had an oven problem
(many years ago) which turned out to be the thermostat - but
not a calibration problem. Once the thermostat was replaced,
everthing was fine.



Practice safe eating - always use condiments

" BOB" > wrote in message
...
> sf wrote:
> > On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 04:23:02 GMT, Wayne >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> "Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
> >> :
> >>
> >> > I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one
who
> >> > has consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I
mean
> >> > I fancy myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always
> >> > seem to have to make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes
to
> >> > it to get it to come out right. I have so much better success with
> >> > other cookbooks it seems.
> >> >
> >> > Paul
> >> >
> >>
> >> Must be you, Paul. <G> I've used an early 70's edition for years and
have
> >> absolutely never had a problem or failure, save a few that were in
fact my
> >> own fault.
>
> Like substituting un-like ingredients? Like changing *anything* the first
time
> trying a new recipe?
> Been there, done that. *NOT* the fault of the cookbook or the recipe at
all.
>
> >
> > Ditto
>
> Me three.
>

Ok guys, be fair. But I do make all recipes exactly the first time - to the
very letter of the recipe. I don't claim to be a chef but after making a
recipe in JC I know I might like a tad more of this or a tad more of that
the next time I make it. Substitutions take longer of course. I'm talking
cooking here, not baking which as we all know is more like chemistry.

OK for example, the JC has dozens of chicken dishes. One of them is
smothered chicken. Cooked to their recipe the dish is flat, bland and not
too good. I hazard to guess it may be like a lot of food cooked in the 30's
and 40's. Now when I add some seasoning, much more olives, pan fry the
chicken first to a high degree of crispiness rather than just brown it, plus
use 1/2 the liquid they call for, I get a really nice dish that pleases
anyone who eats it.

Now for some of the breakfast foods. Their pancake recipes suck. They
really do. Their sour milk pancakes have no body, are flat and generally
tasteless. I use extra eggs, more salt, and less baking powder and I get a
really great pancake - thick and light and full of flavor. It is still very
much the JC recipe though with just a few minor changes that make a huge
difference.

Then there is the roast category. Cooked the way they instruct the roasts
turn out dry and ruined. I used to think it was just me until I tried Alton
Brown's method. Now I can make a roast to serve royalty. So I have
abandoned their roasting techniques.

Now don't get me wrong. JC is a fine cookbook. Where else can you get a
decent pineapple upside down cake recipe these days? But it is not perfect.
My hunch is it is based more on some cooking techniques from 70 or more
years ago.

Paul

" BOB" > wrote in message
...
> sf wrote:
> > On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 04:23:02 GMT, Wayne >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> "Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
> >> :
> >>
> >> > I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one
who
> >> > has consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I
mean
> >> > I fancy myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always
> >> > seem to have to make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes
to
> >> > it to get it to come out right. I have so much better success with
> >> > other cookbooks it seems.
> >> >
> >> > Paul
> >> >
> >>
> >> Must be you, Paul. <G> I've used an early 70's edition for years and
have
> >> absolutely never had a problem or failure, save a few that were in
fact my
> >> own fault.
>
> Like substituting un-like ingredients? Like changing *anything* the first
time
> trying a new recipe?
> Been there, done that. *NOT* the fault of the cookbook or the recipe at
all.
>
> >
> > Ditto
>
> Me three.
>

Ok guys, be fair. But I do make all recipes exactly the first time - to the
very letter of the recipe. I don't claim to be a chef but after making a
recipe in JC I know I might like a tad more of this or a tad more of that
the next time I make it. Substitutions take longer of course. I'm talking
cooking here, not baking which as we all know is more like chemistry.

OK for example, the JC has dozens of chicken dishes. One of them is
smothered chicken. Cooked to their recipe the dish is flat, bland and not
too good. I hazard to guess it may be like a lot of food cooked in the 30's
and 40's. Now when I add some seasoning, much more olives, pan fry the
chicken first to a high degree of crispiness rather than just brown it, plus
use 1/2 the liquid they call for, I get a really nice dish that pleases
anyone who eats it.

Now for some of the breakfast foods. Their pancake recipes suck. They
really do. Their sour milk pancakes have no body, are flat and generally
tasteless. I use extra eggs, more salt, and less baking powder and I get a
really great pancake - thick and light and full of flavor. It is still very
much the JC recipe though with just a few minor changes that make a huge
difference.

Then there is the roast category. Cooked the way they instruct the roasts
turn out dry and ruined. I used to think it was just me until I tried Alton
Brown's method. Now I can make a roast to serve royalty. So I have
abandoned their roasting techniques.

Now don't get me wrong. JC is a fine cookbook. Where else can you get a
decent pineapple upside down cake recipe these days? But it is not perfect.
My hunch is it is based more on some cooking techniques from 70 or more
years ago.

Paul

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 22:31:43 GMT, "Adam Schwartz"
> > wrote:
>
> > For a few days I had been looking for good recipies for hummus and
> >falafels. Then, at work, my boss asked me to make baba ganoush from the
> >recipe in his "Joy of Cooking". I was surprised to find a recipe for
baba
> >ganoush in JoC, so I looked in the index, and found recipies for hummus
as
> >well as falafel. When I came home from work, I immediately opened my JoC
> >and looked for the falafel recipe in the index. No luck. I searched for
> >hummus. It wasn't there either. It doesn't even have a recipe for baba
> >ganoush. I have the 2004 spiral bound edition. Where are the recipies?
> >I'm very dissapointed.
>
> There are 2 Joy of Cooking books: The All New Joy of Cooking
> published sometime in the late 90's, and the original, last
> revised in 1975 and distributed by a dozen or so publishers.
>
> The original Joy of Cooking does not contain the recipes you
> mentioned, so it must be in the newer version.
>
> -sw

My edition says only "Joy of Cooking" on the cover, but it was purchased new
8 months ago. Do I have the older version?
-Adam

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 22:31:43 GMT, "Adam Schwartz"
> > wrote:
>
> > For a few days I had been looking for good recipies for hummus and
> >falafels. Then, at work, my boss asked me to make baba ganoush from the
> >recipe in his "Joy of Cooking". I was surprised to find a recipe for
baba
> >ganoush in JoC, so I looked in the index, and found recipies for hummus
as
> >well as falafel. When I came home from work, I immediately opened my JoC
> >and looked for the falafel recipe in the index. No luck. I searched for
> >hummus. It wasn't there either. It doesn't even have a recipe for baba
> >ganoush. I have the 2004 spiral bound edition. Where are the recipies?
> >I'm very dissapointed.
>
> There are 2 Joy of Cooking books: The All New Joy of Cooking
> published sometime in the late 90's, and the original, last
> revised in 1975 and distributed by a dozen or so publishers.
>
> The original Joy of Cooking does not contain the recipes you
> mentioned, so it must be in the newer version.
>
> -sw

My edition says only "Joy of Cooking" on the cover, but it was purchased new
8 months ago. Do I have the older version?
-Adam

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 09:52:29 GMT, "Paul M. Cook©®"
> wrote:

>
>" BOB" > wrote in message
...
>> sf wrote:
>> > On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 04:23:02 GMT, Wayne >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
>> >> :
>> >>
>> >> > I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one
>who
>> >> > has consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I
>mean
>> >> > I fancy myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always
>> >> > seem to have to make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes
>to
>> >> > it to get it to come out right. I have so much better success with
>> >> > other cookbooks it seems.
>> >> >
>> >> > Paul
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Must be you, Paul. <G> I've used an early 70's edition for years and
>have
>> >> absolutely never had a problem or failure, save a few that were in
>fact my
>> >> own fault.
>>
>> Like substituting un-like ingredients? Like changing *anything* the first
>time
>> trying a new recipe?
>> Been there, done that. *NOT* the fault of the cookbook or the recipe at
>all.
>>
>> >
>> > Ditto
>>
>> Me three.
>>
>
>Ok guys, be fair. But I do make all recipes exactly the first time - to the
>very letter of the recipe. I don't claim to be a chef but after making a
>recipe in JC I know I might like a tad more of this or a tad more of that
>the next time I make it. Substitutions take longer of course. I'm talking
>cooking here, not baking which as we all know is more like chemistry.
>
>OK for example, the JC has dozens of chicken dishes. One of them is
>smothered chicken. Cooked to their recipe the dish is flat, bland and not
>too good. I hazard to guess it may be like a lot of food cooked in the 30's
>and 40's. Now when I add some seasoning, much more olives, pan fry the
>chicken first to a high degree of crispiness rather than just brown it, plus
>use 1/2 the liquid they call for, I get a really nice dish that pleases
>anyone who eats it.
>
>Now for some of the breakfast foods. Their pancake recipes suck. They
>really do. Their sour milk pancakes have no body, are flat and generally
>tasteless. I use extra eggs, more salt, and less baking powder and I get a
>really great pancake - thick and light and full of flavor. It is still very
>much the JC recipe though with just a few minor changes that make a huge
>difference.
>
>Then there is the roast category. Cooked the way they instruct the roasts
>turn out dry and ruined. I used to think it was just me until I tried Alton
>Brown's method. Now I can make a roast to serve royalty. So I have
>abandoned their roasting techniques.
>
>Now don't get me wrong. JC is a fine cookbook. Where else can you get a
>decent pineapple upside down cake recipe these days? But it is not perfect.
>My hunch is it is based more on some cooking techniques from 70 or more
>years ago.
>
>Paul
>

as you can see from the responses to your posts Paul, you have been
making references to "The Holy Grail of Cookbooks" in the United
States of America. I would think most modern Chefs jazz up their
entree's more than what you would do going by a Joy of Cooking
recipe...


Bill

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 09:52:29 GMT, "Paul M. Cook©®"
> wrote:

>
>" BOB" > wrote in message
...
>> sf wrote:
>> > On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 04:23:02 GMT, Wayne >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
>> >> :
>> >>
>> >> > I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one
>who
>> >> > has consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I
>mean
>> >> > I fancy myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always
>> >> > seem to have to make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes
>to
>> >> > it to get it to come out right. I have so much better success with
>> >> > other cookbooks it seems.
>> >> >
>> >> > Paul
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Must be you, Paul. <G> I've used an early 70's edition for years and
>have
>> >> absolutely never had a problem or failure, save a few that were in
>fact my
>> >> own fault.
>>
>> Like substituting un-like ingredients? Like changing *anything* the first
>time
>> trying a new recipe?
>> Been there, done that. *NOT* the fault of the cookbook or the recipe at
>all.
>>
>> >
>> > Ditto
>>
>> Me three.
>>
>
>Ok guys, be fair. But I do make all recipes exactly the first time - to the
>very letter of the recipe. I don't claim to be a chef but after making a
>recipe in JC I know I might like a tad more of this or a tad more of that
>the next time I make it. Substitutions take longer of course. I'm talking
>cooking here, not baking which as we all know is more like chemistry.
>
>OK for example, the JC has dozens of chicken dishes. One of them is
>smothered chicken. Cooked to their recipe the dish is flat, bland and not
>too good. I hazard to guess it may be like a lot of food cooked in the 30's
>and 40's. Now when I add some seasoning, much more olives, pan fry the
>chicken first to a high degree of crispiness rather than just brown it, plus
>use 1/2 the liquid they call for, I get a really nice dish that pleases
>anyone who eats it.
>
>Now for some of the breakfast foods. Their pancake recipes suck. They
>really do. Their sour milk pancakes have no body, are flat and generally
>tasteless. I use extra eggs, more salt, and less baking powder and I get a
>really great pancake - thick and light and full of flavor. It is still very
>much the JC recipe though with just a few minor changes that make a huge
>difference.
>
>Then there is the roast category. Cooked the way they instruct the roasts
>turn out dry and ruined. I used to think it was just me until I tried Alton
>Brown's method. Now I can make a roast to serve royalty. So I have
>abandoned their roasting techniques.
>
>Now don't get me wrong. JC is a fine cookbook. Where else can you get a
>decent pineapple upside down cake recipe these days? But it is not perfect.
>My hunch is it is based more on some cooking techniques from 70 or more
>years ago.
>
>Paul
>

as you can see from the responses to your posts Paul, you have been
making references to "The Holy Grail of Cookbooks" in the United
States of America. I would think most modern Chefs jazz up their
entree's more than what you would do going by a Joy of Cooking
recipe...


Bill

"Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
:

> Now don't get me wrong. JC is a fine cookbook. Where else can you
> get a decent pineapple upside down cake recipe these days? But it is
> not perfect.
>

Nothing in this world is perfect. Somethings only get as good as there is.

--
Once during Prohibition I was forced to live for days on nothing but food
and water.
--------
FIELDS, W. C.

"Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
:

> Now don't get me wrong. JC is a fine cookbook. Where else can you
> get a decent pineapple upside down cake recipe these days? But it is
> not perfect.
>

Nothing in this world is perfect. Somethings only get as good as there is.

--
Once during Prohibition I was forced to live for days on nothing but food
and water.
--------
FIELDS, W. C.

On 2004-07-10, Grismalkin > wrote:
>
> My husband bought me a copy as a wedding gift in 1977 but the thing fell apart
> so I had to get the newer edition.

Don't let those older copies go away. Buy one and use it:

<http://search.ebay.com/joy-of-cookin...Q22Q20cookbook

nb

On 2004-07-10, Grismalkin > wrote:
>
> My husband bought me a copy as a wedding gift in 1977 but the thing fell apart
> so I had to get the newer edition.

Don't let those older copies go away. Buy one and use it:

<http://search.ebay.com/joy-of-cookin...Q22Q20cookbook

nb

"Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
:

>
> " BOB" > wrote in message
> ...
>> sf wrote:
>> > On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 04:23:02 GMT, Wayne >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
>> >> :
>> >>
>> >> > I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only
>> >> > one
> who
>> >> > has consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques?
>> >> > I
> mean
>> >> > I fancy myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I
>> >> > always seem to have to make a JC recipe a couple of times and
>> >> > make changes
> to
>> >> > it to get it to come out right. I have so much better success
>> >> > with other cookbooks it seems.
>> >> >
>> >> > Paul
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Must be you, Paul. <G> I've used an early 70's edition for years
>> >> and
> have
>> >> absolutely never had a problem or failure, save a few that were
>> >> in
> fact my
>> >> own fault.
>>
>> Like substituting un-like ingredients? Like changing *anything* the
>> first
> time
>> trying a new recipe?
>> Been there, done that. *NOT* the fault of the cookbook or the recipe
>> at
> all.
>>
>> >
>> > Ditto
>>
>> Me three.
>>
>
> Ok guys, be fair. But I do make all recipes exactly the first time -
> to the very letter of the recipe. I don't claim to be a chef but
> after making a recipe in JC I know I might like a tad more of this or
> a tad more of that the next time I make it. Substitutions take longer
> of course. I'm talking cooking here, not baking which as we all know
> is more like chemistry.
>
> OK for example, the JC has dozens of chicken dishes. One of them is
> smothered chicken. Cooked to their recipe the dish is flat, bland and
> not too good. I hazard to guess it may be like a lot of food cooked
> in the 30's and 40's. Now when I add some seasoning, much more
> olives, pan fry the chicken first to a high degree of crispiness
> rather than just brown it, plus use 1/2 the liquid they call for, I
> get a really nice dish that pleases anyone who eats it.
>
> Now for some of the breakfast foods. Their pancake recipes suck.
> They really do. Their sour milk pancakes have no body, are flat and
> generally tasteless. I use extra eggs, more salt, and less baking
> powder and I get a really great pancake - thick and light and full of
> flavor. It is still very much the JC recipe though with just a few
> minor changes that make a huge difference.
>
> Then there is the roast category. Cooked the way they instruct the
> roasts turn out dry and ruined. I used to think it was just me until
> I tried Alton Brown's method. Now I can make a roast to serve
> royalty. So I have abandoned their roasting techniques.
>
> Now don't get me wrong. JC is a fine cookbook. Where else can you
> get a decent pineapple upside down cake recipe these days? But it is
> not perfect. My hunch is it is based more on some cooking techniques
> from 70 or more years ago.
>
> Paul

Paul, your orignal post made it sound that JOC recipes produced failed
results. In your last entry, however, it appears that you simply don't
like the results, not that the recipes produced failures. That's a
significant difference.

When I first read JOC, it was my impression that Rombauer, et. al.,
presented most of the recipes as sound, basic methods and encouraged the
reader to experiment and lend their own touches as desired.

BTW, I've got a better Pineapple Upside-Down Cake recipe!

--
Wayne in Phoenix

If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.

"Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
:

>
> " BOB" > wrote in message
> ...
>> sf wrote:
>> > On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 04:23:02 GMT, Wayne >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
>> >> :
>> >>
>> >> > I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only
>> >> > one
> who
>> >> > has consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques?
>> >> > I
> mean
>> >> > I fancy myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I
>> >> > always seem to have to make a JC recipe a couple of times and
>> >> > make changes
> to
>> >> > it to get it to come out right. I have so much better success
>> >> > with other cookbooks it seems.
>> >> >
>> >> > Paul
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Must be you, Paul. <G> I've used an early 70's edition for years
>> >> and
> have
>> >> absolutely never had a problem or failure, save a few that were
>> >> in
> fact my
>> >> own fault.
>>
>> Like substituting un-like ingredients? Like changing *anything* the
>> first
> time
>> trying a new recipe?
>> Been there, done that. *NOT* the fault of the cookbook or the recipe
>> at
> all.
>>
>> >
>> > Ditto
>>
>> Me three.
>>
>
> Ok guys, be fair. But I do make all recipes exactly the first time -
> to the very letter of the recipe. I don't claim to be a chef but
> after making a recipe in JC I know I might like a tad more of this or
> a tad more of that the next time I make it. Substitutions take longer
> of course. I'm talking cooking here, not baking which as we all know
> is more like chemistry.
>
> OK for example, the JC has dozens of chicken dishes. One of them is
> smothered chicken. Cooked to their recipe the dish is flat, bland and
> not too good. I hazard to guess it may be like a lot of food cooked
> in the 30's and 40's. Now when I add some seasoning, much more
> olives, pan fry the chicken first to a high degree of crispiness
> rather than just brown it, plus use 1/2 the liquid they call for, I
> get a really nice dish that pleases anyone who eats it.
>
> Now for some of the breakfast foods. Their pancake recipes suck.
> They really do. Their sour milk pancakes have no body, are flat and
> generally tasteless. I use extra eggs, more salt, and less baking
> powder and I get a really great pancake - thick and light and full of
> flavor. It is still very much the JC recipe though with just a few
> minor changes that make a huge difference.
>
> Then there is the roast category. Cooked the way they instruct the
> roasts turn out dry and ruined. I used to think it was just me until
> I tried Alton Brown's method. Now I can make a roast to serve
> royalty. So I have abandoned their roasting techniques.
>
> Now don't get me wrong. JC is a fine cookbook. Where else can you
> get a decent pineapple upside down cake recipe these days? But it is
> not perfect. My hunch is it is based more on some cooking techniques
> from 70 or more years ago.
>
> Paul

Paul, your orignal post made it sound that JOC recipes produced failed
results. In your last entry, however, it appears that you simply don't
like the results, not that the recipes produced failures. That's a
significant difference.

When I first read JOC, it was my impression that Rombauer, et. al.,
presented most of the recipes as sound, basic methods and encouraged the
reader to experiment and lend their own touches as desired.

BTW, I've got a better Pineapple Upside-Down Cake recipe!

--
Wayne in Phoenix

If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.

Wayne wrote:

> BTW, I've got a better Pineapple Upside-Down Cake recipe!

Don't be a tease! Post it!

Y'all can curse pineapple upside down cake because that's how I found
this newsgroup. Been a thorn in the side ever since, and I still
don't have a recipe. At the time, I had a jones for it, we made it
in ? junior high school, that's the one and only time I ever had it.

I know, I know, i could have just winged it, how tough can it be?
I'm just not a baker.

nancy

Wayne wrote:

> BTW, I've got a better Pineapple Upside-Down Cake recipe!

Don't be a tease! Post it!

Y'all can curse pineapple upside down cake because that's how I found
this newsgroup. Been a thorn in the side ever since, and I still
don't have a recipe. At the time, I had a jones for it, we made it
in ? junior high school, that's the one and only time I ever had it.

I know, I know, i could have just winged it, how tough can it be?
I'm just not a baker.

nancy

Nancy Young > wrote in
:

> Wayne wrote:
>
>> BTW, I've got a better Pineapple Upside-Down Cake recipe!
>
> Don't be a tease! Post it!
>
> Y'all can curse pineapple upside down cake because that's how I found
> this newsgroup. Been a thorn in the side ever since, and I still
> don't have a recipe. At the time, I had a jones for it, we made it
> in ? junior high school, that's the one and only time I ever had it.
>
> I know, I know, i could have just winged it, how tough can it be?
> I'm just not a baker.
>
> nancy
>

Just for you, Nancy. This recipe was published by Chicago Metallic Co.
in 1932 and printed on a label that was attached to their "Pineapple
Upside-Down Cake Pan". I still have and use the pan that belonged to
my mother.

Notes: Use a deep 10-inch skillet. (NordicWare recently began making
an "pineapple upside-down cake pan" which is ideal for this recipe.)
Some people prefer to reduce the butter and brown sugar in the topping,
however, since this is a type of spongecake rather than butter cake, I
use the full amount. The cake will absorb a fair amount of the topping.



* Exported from MasterCook *

Mother's Pineapple Upside-down Cake - 1932

Recipe By :
Serving Size : 6 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Cakes Desserts

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1/2 c Butter
1 c Brown sugar
7 ea Pineapple rings
7 ea Maraschino cherries
3 ea Eggs, separated
1 c Granulated sugar
5 tb Pineapple juice
1 c All-purpose flour
1 t Baking powder

Melt one half cup butter in a large iron frying pan. Add one cup
brown sugar and spread evenly over bottom of "Up-Side-Down" Pan. Lay
complete wheel of pineapple in center. Put cherry in center and place
half wheels around as in picture. <no picture here> make following
sponge batter--Beat yolks of three eggs, add one cup granulated sugar
and five tablespoons of pineapple juice. Sift in one cup of flour and
one teaspoon baking powder. Fold into stiffly beaten egg whites.
pour over fruit. Bake forty-five minutes to hour in moderate oven.


Wayne in Phoenix

If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.

Nancy Young > wrote in
:

> Wayne wrote:
>
>> BTW, I've got a better Pineapple Upside-Down Cake recipe!
>
> Don't be a tease! Post it!
>
> Y'all can curse pineapple upside down cake because that's how I found
> this newsgroup. Been a thorn in the side ever since, and I still
> don't have a recipe. At the time, I had a jones for it, we made it
> in ? junior high school, that's the one and only time I ever had it.
>
> I know, I know, i could have just winged it, how tough can it be?
> I'm just not a baker.
>
> nancy
>

Just for you, Nancy. This recipe was published by Chicago Metallic Co.
in 1932 and printed on a label that was attached to their "Pineapple
Upside-Down Cake Pan". I still have and use the pan that belonged to
my mother.

Notes: Use a deep 10-inch skillet. (NordicWare recently began making
an "pineapple upside-down cake pan" which is ideal for this recipe.)
Some people prefer to reduce the butter and brown sugar in the topping,
however, since this is a type of spongecake rather than butter cake, I
use the full amount. The cake will absorb a fair amount of the topping.



* Exported from MasterCook *

Mother's Pineapple Upside-down Cake - 1932

Recipe By :
Serving Size : 6 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Cakes Desserts

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1/2 c Butter
1 c Brown sugar
7 ea Pineapple rings
7 ea Maraschino cherries
3 ea Eggs, separated
1 c Granulated sugar
5 tb Pineapple juice
1 c All-purpose flour
1 t Baking powder

Melt one half cup butter in a large iron frying pan. Add one cup
brown sugar and spread evenly over bottom of "Up-Side-Down" Pan. Lay
complete wheel of pineapple in center. Put cherry in center and place
half wheels around as in picture. <no picture here> make following
sponge batter--Beat yolks of three eggs, add one cup granulated sugar
and five tablespoons of pineapple juice. Sift in one cup of flour and
one teaspoon baking powder. Fold into stiffly beaten egg whites.
pour over fruit. Bake forty-five minutes to hour in moderate oven.


Wayne in Phoenix

If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.

Adam Schwartz wrote:

> For a few days I had been looking for good recipies for hummus and
> falafels. Then, at work, my boss asked me to make baba ganoush from the
> recipe in his "Joy of Cooking". I was surprised to find a recipe for baba
> ganoush in JoC, so I looked in the index, and found recipies for hummus as
> well as falafel. When I came home from work, I immediately opened my JoC
> and looked for the falafel recipe in the index. No luck. I searched for
> hummus. It wasn't there either. It doesn't even have a recipe for baba
> ganoush. I have the 2004 spiral bound edition. Where are the recipies?
> I'm very dissapointed.


The newer editions I've found have a *really* crummy index. The recipes may
be in there, but you have to dig all around for them.

--
Best
Greg

"Paul M. Cook©®" wrote:

> I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one who has
> consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I mean I fancy
> myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always seem to have to
> make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes to it to get it to come
> out right. I have so much better success with other cookbooks it seems.


I generally have good success with the recipes from my 70's era one (my
mom got me that when I moved to my own apartment).

The only problem I have is that they seem to use a bit too much salt. I
generally cut back on that.





Brian Rodenborn

"Paul M. Cook©®" wrote:

> I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one who has
> consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I mean I fancy
> myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always seem to have to
> make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes to it to get it to come
> out right. I have so much better success with other cookbooks it seems.


I generally have good success with the recipes from my 70's era one (my
mom got me that when I moved to my own apartment).

The only problem I have is that they seem to use a bit too much salt. I
generally cut back on that.





Brian Rodenborn

"Default User" > wrote in message
...
> "Paul M. Cook©®" wrote:
>
> > I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one who
has
> > consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I mean I
fancy
> > myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always seem to have
to
> > make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes to it to get it to
come
> > out right. I have so much better success with other cookbooks it seems.
>
>
> I generally have good success with the recipes from my 70's era one (my
> mom got me that when I moved to my own apartment).
>
> The only problem I have is that they seem to use a bit too much salt. I
> generally cut back on that.
>

I've found the same to be true with sugar. I can generally cut out 1/4 to
up to 1/2 and the recipe is none the worse for it. My old Betty Crocker
cookbook is typical of the pre-70s cookbooks and they always used mch more
fat too.

Paul

>
>
>
> Brian Rodenborn

"Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
:

>
> "Default User" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Paul M. Cook©®" wrote:
>>
>> > I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one
>> > who
> has
>> > consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I mean I
> fancy
>> > myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always seem to
>> > have
> to
>> > make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes to it to get it
>> > to
> come
>> > out right. I have so much better success with other cookbooks it
>> > seems.
>>
>>
>> I generally have good success with the recipes from my 70's era one
>> (my mom got me that when I moved to my own apartment).
>>
>> The only problem I have is that they seem to use a bit too much salt.
>> I generally cut back on that.
>>
>
> I've found the same to be true with sugar. I can generally cut out
> 1/4 to up to 1/2 and the recipe is none the worse for it. My old
> Betty Crocker cookbook is typical of the pre-70s cookbooks and they
> always used mch more fat too.
>
> Paul

Guess that's why they keep writing more and more cookbooks. Times
change, tastes change. The recipes in cookbooks from the early 20th
century are considerably different than now. I have an extensive
cookbook collection dating from the early 1920s through last week <g>,
and there are many examples of change. Truth be told, some of the
earlier recipes are, in fact, the best. Too fat, too sweet, too salty
and all. <g>

--
Wayne in Phoenix

If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.

"Paul M. Cook©®" > wrote in
:

>
> "Default User" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Paul M. Cook©®" wrote:
>>
>> > I'm just curious here. I have both JC and NJC. Am I the only one
>> > who
> has
>> > consistent bad results with their recipes and techniques? I mean I
> fancy
>> > myself an able cook, not a chef by any means, yet I always seem to
>> > have
> to
>> > make a JC recipe a couple of times and make changes to it to get it
>> > to
> come
>> > out right. I have so much better success with other cookbooks it
>> > seems.
>>
>>
>> I generally have good success with the recipes from my 70's era one
>> (my mom got me that when I moved to my own apartment).
>>
>> The only problem I have is that they seem to use a bit too much salt.
>> I generally cut back on that.
>>
>
> I've found the same to be true with sugar. I can generally cut out
> 1/4 to up to 1/2 and the recipe is none the worse for it. My old
> Betty Crocker cookbook is typical of the pre-70s cookbooks and they
> always used mch more fat too.
>
> Paul

Guess that's why they keep writing more and more cookbooks. Times
change, tastes change. The recipes in cookbooks from the early 20th
century are considerably different than now. I have an extensive
cookbook collection dating from the early 1920s through last week <g>,
and there are many examples of change. Truth be told, some of the
earlier recipes are, in fact, the best. Too fat, too sweet, too salty
and all. <g>

--
Wayne in Phoenix

If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.