Hi,
I wonder if there is such a thing as sauerbraten
made with pork instead of beef. I vaguely recall
possibly having seen such a recipe ages ago, but
I might be hallucinating. Anyway, I'm having friends
for dinner over the holidays and one of them doesn't
eat beef. After going through dozens of recipes I
came across my sauerbraten recipe and had an intense
craving for it. So, I was thinking, couldn't you
maybe make something similar with pork? Probably
wouldn't be called sauerbraten though, then again it
might. Not quite sure what the "braten" part means.
Anyway, does anyone out there have a recipe or has
anyone ever heard of it? If I thought it would
work (that is, not taste sucky) I would just make
it according to my sauerbraten recipe. Help!
Friday, December 19th, tomorrow, is my last day
at work and at the computer until January 5 so it
I can get a response before 5pm EST tomorrow it would
be great. If not I'll have to decide whether or not
to experiment with it on my own. P.S. I've already
googled it and haven't yet come up with anything.
TIA,
Kate
--
Kate Connally
“If I were as old as I feel, I’d be dead already.”
Goldfish: “The wholesome snack that smiles back,
Until you bite their heads off.”
What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all about?

Kate Connally > wrote:

> I wonder if there is such a thing as sauerbraten
> made with pork instead of beef.

Yes, in the Eifel region they make it with pork. BTW, I wonder why you
think sauerbraten has to be made with beef. Here in the Rhineland, it
traditionally used to be been made with horse meat and this is still
often enough the case.

Feel free to use your favourite sauerbraten recipe, substituting lean
pork for the meat it calls for.

> Not quite sure what the "braten" part means.

'Roast', including 'pot roast'.

Victor

In article >,
(Victor Sack) writes:

>Kate Connally > wrote:
>
>> I wonder if there is such a thing as sauerbraten
>> made with pork instead of beef.
>
>Yes, in the Eifel region they make it with pork. BTW, I wonder why you
>think sauerbraten has to be made with beef. Here in the Rhineland, it
>traditionally used to be been made with horse meat and this is still
>often enough the case.
>
>Feel free to use your favourite sauerbraten recipe, substituting lean
>pork for the meat it calls for.
>
>> Not quite sure what the "braten" part means.
>
>'Roast', including 'pot roast'.
>
>Victor

Here Victor is correct. A well trimmed boned and tied fresh ham makes
wonderful sauerbraten.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

"Kate Connally" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
> I wonder if there is such a thing as sauerbraten
> made with pork instead of beef. I vaguely recall
> possibly having seen such a recipe ages ago, but
> I might be hallucinating. Anyway, I'm having friends
> for dinner over the holidays and one of them doesn't
> eat beef. After going through dozens of recipes I
> came across my sauerbraten recipe and had an intense
> craving for it. So, I was thinking, couldn't you
> maybe make something similar with pork? Probably
> wouldn't be called sauerbraten though, then again it
> might. Not quite sure what the "braten" part means.
> Anyway, does anyone out there have a recipe or has
> anyone ever heard of it? If I thought it would
> work (that is, not taste sucky) I would just make
> it according to my sauerbraten recipe. Help!
> Friday, December 19th, tomorrow, is my last day
> at work and at the computer until January 5 so it
> I can get a response before 5pm EST tomorrow it would
> be great. If not I'll have to decide whether or not
> to experiment with it on my own. P.S. I've already
> googled it and haven't yet come up with anything.
> TIA,
> Kate


Sure, pork makes great sauerbraten. I'd use a boneless pork shoulder, since
it contains some fat, and won't get all dried out in the long braising
process. It might take less cooking time than beef, so watch and test it
often towards the end of the cooking. When a fork pierces the meat easily,
it's done.


-Scott

>Kate Connally > wrote:
>
>> I wonder if there is such a thing as sauerbraten
>> made with pork instead of beef.
>
>Yes, in the Eifel region they make it with pork. BTW, I wonder why you
>think sauerbraten has to be made with beef. Here in the Rhineland, it
>traditionally used to be been made with horse meat and this is still
>often enough the case.
>
>Feel free to use your favourite sauerbraten recipe, substituting lean
>pork for the meat it calls for.
>
>> Not quite sure what the "braten" part means.
>
>'Roast', including 'pot roast'.
>
>Victor
>
This is interesting. Would one use a lighter wine than a red for it? A pork
saurbraten sounds sort of good to me. I've only made this dish at home, so I
don't know how to compare it with the best. It seems that the pork version
would go especially well with some cabbage.

I had friends with odd taste. One guy wouldn't eat beef but ate pork. If he
were still here I would gladly make him a pork sauerbraten instead of beef.

Svakas, Bubba!
rharps.com

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:37:09 -0500, Kate Connally >
> wrote:
>
> >Anyway, I'm having friends for dinner over the holidays and one of them
doesn't
> >eat beef.
>
> I don't change my whole lineup for someone who doesn't eat beef for
> some sort phobia or moral reason. I've never heard of a beef allergy.
> Any aversion this person has to beef must be a phobia of some sort.
>
> If I think my guests would apprecaite good beef, I'd cook beef, and to
> hell with anyone who won't eat it. Trying to make sauerbraten from
> pork is going way too far out the way to accomodate this single
> person.
>


Bullshit, amigo. Sauerbraten can be made with pork anytime. Just make sure
there's red cabbage around.

Jack Dish

"Kate Connally" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
> I wonder if there is such a thing as sauerbraten
> made with pork instead of beef. I vaguely recall
> possibly having seen such a recipe ages ago, but
> I might be hallucinating. Anyway, I'm having friends
> for dinner over the holidays and one of them doesn't
> eat beef. After going through dozens of recipes I
> came across my sauerbraten recipe and had an intense
> craving for it. So, I was thinking, couldn't you
> maybe make something similar with pork? Probably
> wouldn't be called sauerbraten though, then again it
> might. Not quite sure what the "braten" part means.
> Anyway, does anyone out there have a recipe or has
> anyone ever heard of it? If I thought it would
> work (that is, not taste sucky) I would just make
> it according to my sauerbraten recipe. Help!
> Friday, December 19th, tomorrow, is my last day
> at work and at the computer until January 5 so it
> I can get a response before 5pm EST tomorrow it would
> be great. If not I'll have to decide whether or not
> to experiment with it on my own. P.S. I've already
> googled it and haven't yet come up with anything.
> TIA,
> Kate


Why not? The beauty of using pork for sauerbraten is...ya don't hafta
'lard' it.
Jack Braten

My family has been making a dish with pork butt and sauerkraut for years!
It's not technically a sauerbraten, but it's really tasty.

I always "wing" it, but this is how I do it...

I get a pork butt and throw it into a crock pot with a jar of sauerkraut,
and a chopped apple. Toss in about 1/4 cup of white dry wine and let it go
all day.

It's done when the pork shreds with a fork.

Easy but, oh, so good!

kilikini

Greykits wrote:
>>Kate Connally > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I wonder if there is such a thing as sauerbraten
>>>made with pork instead of beef.
>>
>>Yes, in the Eifel region they make it with pork. BTW, I wonder why you
>>think sauerbraten has to be made with beef. Here in the Rhineland, it
>>traditionally used to be been made with horse meat and this is still
>>often enough the case.
>>
>>Feel free to use your favourite sauerbraten recipe, substituting lean
>>pork for the meat it calls for.
>>
>>
>>> Not quite sure what the "braten" part means.
>>
>>'Roast', including 'pot roast'.
>>
>>Victor
>>
>
> This is interesting. Would one use a lighter wine than a red for it? A pork
> saurbraten sounds sort of good to me. I've only made this dish at home, so I
> don't know how to compare it with the best. It seems that the pork version
> would go especially well with some cabbage.
>
> I had friends with odd taste. One guy wouldn't eat beef but ate pork. If he
> were still here I would gladly make him a pork sauerbraten instead of beef.
>
> Svakas, Bubba!
> rharps.com


I think a Gewürztraminer (sp?) would be good. German beer (I like
Warsteiner) is obvious, or how about a Belgian ale?

That leftover bottle of Beaujolais nouveau might be an OK red wine.

Best regards,
Bob

"kilikini" > wrote in message
...
> My family has been making a dish with pork butt and sauerkraut for years!
> It's not technically a sauerbraten, but it's really tasty.
>
> I always "wing" it, but this is how I do it...
>
> I get a pork butt and throw it into a crock pot with a jar of sauerkraut,
> and a chopped apple. Toss in about 1/4 cup of white dry wine and let it
go
> all day.
>
> It's done when the pork shreds with a fork.
>
> Easy but, oh, so good!
>
> kilikini
>
>


It's delicious but it's not sauerbraten. That's just roast pork round here.
Sauerbraten is marinaded for days and then cooked.

Jack Pecksnifferoni

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 01:22:41 GMT, "Jack Schidt®"
> > wrote:
>
> >"Steve Wertz" > wrote
>
> >> Trying to make sauerbraten from
> >> pork is going way too far out the way to accomodate this single
> >> person.
>
> >Bullshit, amigo. Sauerbraten can be made with pork anytime.
>
> It would *not* be sauerbraten. I can make a ribeye roast from pork as
> well.

haha, welcome to the variations in German cuisine. Every region has its own
version of sauerbraten. My dad has said beef was not always available, so
pork and even horse meat was used and it was still considered sauerbraten.
I myself have made it with venison, which is arguably closer to beef than
the other meats. Sauerbraten = 'sour roast'.

I know, stunning to see variation and German in the same sentence. We like
order und organization.

>
> Just for giggles I looked for recipes for pork sauerbraten or
> saurbraten pork... nada.
>
> I'm all for a pork roast slow-cooked in sauerkraut, though.
>

For me, it rarely gets better than that.

Jack Puercomaniac

In article >,
Steve Wertz > wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 01:22:41 GMT, "Jack Schidt®"
> > wrote:
>
> >"Steve Wertz" > wrote
>
> >> Trying to make sauerbraten from
> >> pork is going way too far out the way to accomodate this single
> >> person.
>
> >Bullshit, amigo. Sauerbraten can be made with pork anytime.
>
> It would *not* be sauerbraten. I can make a ribeye roast from pork as
> well.
>
> Just for giggles I looked for recipes for pork sauerbraten or
> saurbraten pork... nada.
>
> I'm all for a pork roast slow-cooked in sauerkraut, though.
>
> -sw

"The German Cookbook" (by Mimi Sheraton) says to follow her Marinated
Pot Roast recipe (Rheinischer Sauerbraten) using any boned and rolled
roasting cut of pork. She says red wine is often substituted for
vineger, ommiting pickling spices or cloves in the marinade. She calls
it Pork Sauerbraten. Maybe you could call it "Schweinesauerbraten?"
I don't know ... the only thing German about me is my name. But Victor
Sack knows, I bet.

Regards,
Dave W.

--
In the Ozarks. Dot edu will do for email.

"Jack Schidt®" wrote:

> It's delicious but it's not sauerbraten. That's just roast pork round here.
> Sauerbraten is marinaded for days and then cooked.

I have a recipe for sauerbraten that I *will* make in the new year.
It marinates for 5 days. Unfortunately, I have the recipe but not
how long or how to roast it. Guess I'll be checking out various
recipes in order to get a consensus on that.

I have put off making it because I know it will not be as good as
the sauerbraten in the cafeteria where I used to work. That sounds
like a joke, but it's not. Some retired marine was the chef, and he
wouldn't give out the recipe. Dang him. But when sauerbraten was
on the menu, be there when the doors opened or it's, you snooze, you
lose.

nancy

Steve Wertz wrote:
>
> On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:37:09 -0500, Kate Connally >
> wrote:
>
> >Anyway, I'm having friends for dinner over the holidays and one of them doesn't
> >eat beef.
>
> I don't change my whole lineup for someone who doesn't eat beef for
> some sort phobia or moral reason. I've never heard of a beef allergy.
> Any aversion this person has to beef must be a phobia of some sort.

No, I don't either, but this is a special case and I'm making
this dinner especially for this person. Normally I think of
what I want to make - for *me* - and if people don't like it
too bad. ;-) Anyway, of course, it's not an allergy or anything.
She just doesn't eat beef or lamb (don't know about goat, venison,
etc.). That's her perogative. Her mother, who is also coming, also
does not eat beef or lamb, etc., and currently is on a vegetarian
diet. I am not making any concessions for her. She can either eat
the pork (which she will probably do, she likes pork) or just eat
the other dishes. She knows there's no way I'm going to cook
vegetarian. I like meat. And the other thing is that pork is
my favorite meat anyway - and much cheaper than beef - so it will
be an interesting experiment to see how pork sauerbraten turns out.

> If I think my guests would apprecaite good beef, I'd cook beef, and to
> hell with anyone who won't eat it. Trying to make sauerbraten from
> pork is going way too far out the way to accomodate this single
> person.

Actually, it turns out my panic yesterday was all for nought.
When I got home I looked through my German cookbooks thinking
to find another pork recipe and lo and behold there it was! -
the very same recipe I always use for regular sauerbrated
actually said ". . . or pork shoulder"!!!! I couldn't believe
it! I must have registered it subconsciously but never knew
at a conscious level that pork was mentioned as an alternative
meat in the recipe. I've been making that recipe for 30 year!

So, as Roseanne Roseannadanna would have said, "Nevermind."

Kate

--
Kate Connally
“If I were as old as I feel, I’d be dead already.”
Goldfish: “The wholesome snack that smiles back,
Until you bite their heads off.”
What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all about?

Victor Sack wrote:
>
> Kate Connally > wrote:
>
> > I wonder if there is such a thing as sauerbraten
> > made with pork instead of beef.
>
> Yes, in the Eifel region they make it with pork. BTW, I wonder why you
> think sauerbraten has to be made with beef. Here in the Rhineland, it
> traditionally used to be been made with horse meat and this is still
> often enough the case.

Well, that would be because all my German cookbooks
call for using beef and all the recipes I have come
across on the web call for beef. And even if some of
them called for horse I wouldn't make it or would
substitute beef. I don't want to eat horse.

> Feel free to use your favourite sauerbraten recipe, substituting lean
> pork for the meat it calls for.

Actually found out when I got home that my regular recipe
calls for pork as an alternative. Never really registered
with me before. It's the Sauerbraten auf Nordischer Art -
marinated in buttermilk and then cooked with red wine,
red wine vinegar, juniper berries, etc.
>
> > Not quite sure what the "braten" part means.
>
> 'Roast', including 'pot roast'.

Aha. Good to know. I was gonna look it up in my
German dictionary but now I don't have to. ;-)

Thanks,
Kate

--
Kate Connally
“If I were as old as I feel, I’d be dead already.”
Goldfish: “The wholesome snack that smiles back,
Until you bite their heads off.”
What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all about?

Greykits wrote:
>
> >Kate Connally > wrote:
> >
> >> I wonder if there is such a thing as sauerbraten
> >> made with pork instead of beef.
> >
> >Yes, in the Eifel region they make it with pork. BTW, I wonder why you
> >think sauerbraten has to be made with beef. Here in the Rhineland, it
> >traditionally used to be been made with horse meat and this is still
> >often enough the case.
> >
> >Feel free to use your favourite sauerbraten recipe, substituting lean
> >pork for the meat it calls for.
> >
> >> Not quite sure what the "braten" part means.
> >
> >'Roast', including 'pot roast'.
> >
> >Victor
> >
> This is interesting. Would one use a lighter wine than a red for it?

As I found out when I got home last night and consulted my
German cookbook it actually uses exactly the same ingredients
as the beef version.

Kate

--
Kate Connally
“If I were as old as I feel, I’d be dead already.”
Goldfish: “The wholesome snack that smiles back,
Until you bite their heads off.”
What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all about?

"Jack Schidt®" wrote:
>
> "Kate Connally" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi,
> > I wonder if there is such a thing as sauerbraten
> > made with pork instead of beef. I vaguely recall
> > possibly having seen such a recipe ages ago, but
> > I might be hallucinating. Anyway, I'm having friends
> > for dinner over the holidays and one of them doesn't
> > eat beef. After going through dozens of recipes I
> > came across my sauerbraten recipe and had an intense
> > craving for it. So, I was thinking, couldn't you
> > maybe make something similar with pork? Probably
> > wouldn't be called sauerbraten though, then again it
> > might. Not quite sure what the "braten" part means.
> > Anyway, does anyone out there have a recipe or has
> > anyone ever heard of it? If I thought it would
> > work (that is, not taste sucky) I would just make
> > it according to my sauerbraten recipe. Help!
> > Friday, December 19th, tomorrow, is my last day
> > at work and at the computer until January 5 so it
> > I can get a response before 5pm EST tomorrow it would
> > be great. If not I'll have to decide whether or not
> > to experiment with it on my own. P.S. I've already
> > googled it and haven't yet come up with anything.
> > TIA,
> > Kate
>
> Why not? The beauty of using pork for sauerbraten is...ya don't hafta
> 'lard' it.

Well, I never did that anyway and it always came out fine.
My regular recipe doesn't call for larding but I've seen
many recipes that do. Anyway, I can't wait to try it.

Kate

--
Kate Connally
“If I were as old as I feel, I’d be dead already.”
Goldfish: “The wholesome snack that smiles back,
Until you bite their heads off.”
What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all about?

zxcvbob wrote:
>
> Greykits wrote:
> >>Kate Connally > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I wonder if there is such a thing as sauerbraten
> >>>made with pork instead of beef.
> >>
> >>Yes, in the Eifel region they make it with pork. BTW, I wonder why you
> >>think sauerbraten has to be made with beef. Here in the Rhineland, it
> >>traditionally used to be been made with horse meat and this is still
> >>often enough the case.
> >>
> >>Feel free to use your favourite sauerbraten recipe, substituting lean
> >>pork for the meat it calls for.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Not quite sure what the "braten" part means.
> >>
> >>'Roast', including 'pot roast'.
> >>
> >>Victor
> >>
> >
> > This is interesting. Would one use a lighter wine than a red for it? A pork
> > saurbraten sounds sort of good to me. I've only made this dish at home, so I
> > don't know how to compare it with the best. It seems that the pork version
> > would go especially well with some cabbage.
> >
> > I had friends with odd taste. One guy wouldn't eat beef but ate pork. If he
> > were still here I would gladly make him a pork sauerbraten instead of beef.
> >
> > Svakas, Bubba!
> > rharps.com
>
> I think a Gewürztraminer (sp?) would be good. German beer (I like
> Warsteiner) is obvious, or how about a Belgian ale?

I suppose one could make it with a white wine but I
would think that the seasonings might need to be different
to complement the wine. The version with red wine had
juniper berries, bay leaf, etc. I wonder if they would
be too "heavy" for white wine.

Kate

--
Kate Connally
“If I were as old as I feel, I’d be dead already.”
Goldfish: “The wholesome snack that smiles back,
Until you bite their heads off.”
What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all about?

Greykits > wrote:

> This is interesting. Would one use a lighter wine than a red for it? A pork
> saurbraten sounds sort of good to me.

To make it, or to accompany it? Very generally speaking, grape wine in
sauerbraten of any kind is not traditional. Usually, just vinegar of
some kind was supposed to be used as a sour component, but occasionally
also such things as apple wine. Grape wine is a more modern, refined
version, and it is no surprise that it is found more often in recipes
from such places as Berlin (a wordly city) or Saarland (a region
bordering on France). Whenever grape wine is used, it is usually red;
white is more rare, which is a further indication that such versions are
not really traditional in Germany.

Victor

Victor Sack wrote:
>
> Greykits > wrote:
>
> > This is interesting. Would one use a lighter wine than a red for it? A pork
> > saurbraten sounds sort of good to me.
>
> To make it, or to accompany it? Very generally speaking, grape wine in
> sauerbraten of any kind is not traditional. Usually, just vinegar of
> some kind was supposed to be used as a sour component, but occasionally
> also such things as apple wine. Grape wine is a more modern, refined
> version, and it is no surprise that it is found more often in recipes
> from such places as Berlin (a wordly city) or Saarland (a region
> bordering on France). Whenever grape wine is used, it is usually red;
> white is more rare, which is a further indication that such versions are
> not really traditional in Germany.
>
> Victor

We use red wine vinegar generally. If there are a couple of tablespoons
of red wine left in the bottle, that will often go in there too.
Have never eaten a white wine sauerbraten.

Steve Wertz wrote:
>
> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:54:46 GMT, "Jack Schidt®"
> > wrote:
>
> >haha, welcome to the variations in German cuisine. Every region has its own
> >version of sauerbraten. My dad has said beef was not always available, so
> >pork and even horse meat was used and it was still considered sauerbraten.
> >I myself have made it with venison, which is arguably closer to beef than
> >the other meats. Sauerbraten = 'sour roast'.
>
> Now that I see Victors response, I'll take his word for it. I still
> can't fathom anyone who won't eat beef but will eat all other meats,
> though. Must have gotten kicked by a cow as a kid. ;-)
>
> -sw

You need to get out more I don't eat beef, but will eat other meats.
I know plenty of people who won't eat pork, but will other meats. Or
those who won't eat lamb but will eat other meats. It's hardly unusual.

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:56:20 -0700, Arri London >
> wrote:
>
> >You need to get out more I don't eat beef, but will eat other meats.
> >I know plenty of people who won't eat pork, but will other meats. Or
> >those who won't eat lamb but will eat other meats. It's hardly unusual.
>
> I can see not liking lamb, but not liking pork or beef for other than
> religious reasons is just plain *weird*
>
> :-)
>
> -sw

Compared to lamb and pork, beef is tasteless IMO.

Jack Taste

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
> Victor Sack wrote:
> >
> > Greykits > wrote:
> >
> > > This is interesting. Would one use a lighter wine than a red for it?
A pork
> > > saurbraten sounds sort of good to me.
> >
> > To make it, or to accompany it? Very generally speaking, grape wine in
> > sauerbraten of any kind is not traditional. Usually, just vinegar of
> > some kind was supposed to be used as a sour component, but occasionally
> > also such things as apple wine. Grape wine is a more modern, refined
> > version, and it is no surprise that it is found more often in recipes
> > from such places as Berlin (a wordly city) or Saarland (a region
> > bordering on France). Whenever grape wine is used, it is usually red;
> > white is more rare, which is a further indication that such versions are
> > not really traditional in Germany.
> >
> > Victor
>
> We use red wine vinegar generally. If there are a couple of tablespoons
> of red wine left in the bottle, that will often go in there too.
> Have never eaten a white wine sauerbraten.

You didn't visit my home then. Mom's Sauerbraten included a spritz of white
wine. I don't care what Victor sez..

Jack Gotscheer

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 04:59:12 GMT, "Jack Schidt®"
> wrote:

>Compared to lamb and pork, beef is tasteless IMO.

I think beef and pork have as much taste as each other. Lamb
certainly has more.

-sw

"Jack Schidt®" > schrieb:

>It's delicious but it's not sauerbraten. That's just roast pork round here.
>Sauerbraten is marinaded for days and then cooked.

And thats why I wouldn´t use pork for Sauerbraten - historically the
marinade is there to make a tough (and affordable) piece of an old cow
more mellow. Pork hasn´t the right texture.

And you wouldn´t want to leave a piece of pork for that long rest in
the marinade without a fridge.

So, Sauerbraten originally is beef or horse meat. I prefer it with
"Pumpernickel" (a dark, sweetened bread) and Ruebenkraut (beet syrup).

>Jack Pecksnifferoni
>

Gruss, Roman