I've made this recipe (in my bread machine) dozens of times, and it always
turns out perfect. However the last two times the bread has fallen. It
raises fine, and then while baking it falls!

My bread machine recipe book says it could be too much yeast (I always use
1 tsp, which is 1/2 what the recipe calls for) or too much water (I tried
to use a bit less this time, dough was not sticking to sides of pan at all
while kneading). Same yeast, same flour (from the same bag), same recipe.
Same bread machine cycle. What else is there?

This is a great recipe. What should I try next to get a successful loaf?

"Lee B." > wrote in
:

> I've made this recipe (in my bread machine) dozens of times, and it
> always turns out perfect. However the last two times the bread has
> fallen. It raises fine, and then while baking it falls!
>
> My bread machine recipe book says it could be too much yeast (I always
> use 1 tsp, which is 1/2 what the recipe calls for) or too much water
> (I tried to use a bit less this time, dough was not sticking to sides
> of pan at all while kneading). Same yeast, same flour (from the same
> bag), same recipe. Same bread machine cycle. What else is there?
>
> This is a great recipe. What should I try next to get a successful
> loaf?
>

What have you done differently ...Have you changed flours or brands of
yeast? Perhaps you let the bread sit too long in the ABM.

Without a recipe how can anybody help?

--
Once during Prohibition I was forced to live for days on nothing but food
and water.
--------
FIELDS, W. C.

"Lee B." > wrote in
:

> I've made this recipe (in my bread machine) dozens of times, and it
> always turns out perfect. However the last two times the bread has
> fallen. It raises fine, and then while baking it falls!
>
> My bread machine recipe book says it could be too much yeast (I always
> use 1 tsp, which is 1/2 what the recipe calls for) or too much water
> (I tried to use a bit less this time, dough was not sticking to sides
> of pan at all while kneading). Same yeast, same flour (from the same
> bag), same recipe. Same bread machine cycle. What else is there?
>
> This is a great recipe. What should I try next to get a successful
> loaf?
>

What have you done differently ...Have you changed flours or brands of
yeast? Perhaps you let the bread sit too long in the ABM.

Without a recipe how can anybody help?

--
Once during Prohibition I was forced to live for days on nothing but food
and water.
--------
FIELDS, W. C.

In article >, lid
says...
> I've made this recipe (in my bread machine) dozens of times, and it always
> turns out perfect. However the last two times the bread has fallen. It
> raises fine, and then while baking it falls!
>
> My bread machine recipe book says it could be too much yeast (I always use
> 1 tsp, which is 1/2 what the recipe calls for) or too much water (I tried
> to use a bit less this time, dough was not sticking to sides of pan at all
> while kneading). Same yeast, same flour (from the same bag), same recipe.
> Same bread machine cycle. What else is there?
>
The weather, for one thing. Flour readily absorbs and gives off
moisture depending on the ambient humidity and the freshness of the
flour, enough to change its behavior in breadmaking. Professional
bakers typically weigh their flour rather than depend on measuring
volume (as with a measuring cup) to account for the differences in
moisture content.

Also, flour (or any other milled grain product) doesn't age gracefully.
From the moment it's milled, various components of the flour start to
deteriorate, each in its own way. This can affect the finished product.
The most noticeable sign of really stale flour for most people is a
rancid smell, but other things like color and texture can be clues to an
experienced baker that the flour is not what it should be.

Some of the books dedicated to bread machine baking encourage a "high
touch" approach, where instead of "setting and forgetting", you monitor
the progress of the dough making and baking at key points in the
process. One book I've looked at said that you should open the lid of
the machine while the dough is being kneaded, to touch and/or pinch the
dough. This allows you to see whether the dough feels "right", and
gives you an opportunity to take corrective action if needed, by adding
more liquid or more flour. The book tried to describe what "right"
feels like, but in the end your own experience and instinct is what you
have to go by. (It's doubtful that any bread machine instruction manual
would advise the user to open the machine while it's running and feel
the dough, simply for liability reasons.)

The books encourage the bread machine user to err on the side of too
little liquid to start with. This takes into account the variable
moisture content of the flour, and the fact that, in a bread machine,
it's easier to dribble in a little extra water while the dough is being
kneaded, versus trying to add enough flour to absorb excessive liquid.

Bob

In article >, lid
says...
> I've made this recipe (in my bread machine) dozens of times, and it always
> turns out perfect. However the last two times the bread has fallen. It
> raises fine, and then while baking it falls!
>
> My bread machine recipe book says it could be too much yeast (I always use
> 1 tsp, which is 1/2 what the recipe calls for) or too much water (I tried
> to use a bit less this time, dough was not sticking to sides of pan at all
> while kneading). Same yeast, same flour (from the same bag), same recipe.
> Same bread machine cycle. What else is there?
>
The weather, for one thing. Flour readily absorbs and gives off
moisture depending on the ambient humidity and the freshness of the
flour, enough to change its behavior in breadmaking. Professional
bakers typically weigh their flour rather than depend on measuring
volume (as with a measuring cup) to account for the differences in
moisture content.

Also, flour (or any other milled grain product) doesn't age gracefully.
From the moment it's milled, various components of the flour start to
deteriorate, each in its own way. This can affect the finished product.
The most noticeable sign of really stale flour for most people is a
rancid smell, but other things like color and texture can be clues to an
experienced baker that the flour is not what it should be.

Some of the books dedicated to bread machine baking encourage a "high
touch" approach, where instead of "setting and forgetting", you monitor
the progress of the dough making and baking at key points in the
process. One book I've looked at said that you should open the lid of
the machine while the dough is being kneaded, to touch and/or pinch the
dough. This allows you to see whether the dough feels "right", and
gives you an opportunity to take corrective action if needed, by adding
more liquid or more flour. The book tried to describe what "right"
feels like, but in the end your own experience and instinct is what you
have to go by. (It's doubtful that any bread machine instruction manual
would advise the user to open the machine while it's running and feel
the dough, simply for liability reasons.)

The books encourage the bread machine user to err on the side of too
little liquid to start with. This takes into account the variable
moisture content of the flour, and the fact that, in a bread machine,
it's easier to dribble in a little extra water while the dough is being
kneaded, versus trying to add enough flour to absorb excessive liquid.

Bob

"Lee B." > wrote in message
...
> I've made this recipe (in my bread machine) dozens of times, and it always
> turns out perfect. However the last two times the bread has fallen. It
> raises fine, and then while baking it falls!
>
> My bread machine recipe book says it could be too much yeast (I always use
> 1 tsp, which is 1/2 what the recipe calls for) or too much water (I tried
> to use a bit less this time, dough was not sticking to sides of pan at all
> while kneading). Same yeast, same flour (from the same bag), same recipe.
> Same bread machine cycle. What else is there?
>
> This is a great recipe. What should I try next to get a successful loaf?

It might be the temperature of the ingredients. Water from the tap is
warmer in the summer as are room temperature ingredients. The cause of the
bread falling is over-proofing. In other words, it expended too much. I
would start with colder liquid and not use the delay feature. If you aren't
using high gluten flour, you might try switching.

>"Lee B Dumb." ?????????????
>
>I've made this recipe (in my bread machine) dozens of times, and it always
>turns out perfect. However the last two times the bread has fallen. It
>raises fine, and then while baking it falls!
>
>My bread machine recipe book says it could be too much yeast (I always use
>1 tsp, which is 1/2 what the recipe calls for) or too much water (I tried
>to use a bit less this time, dough was not sticking to sides of pan at all
>while kneading). Same yeast, same flour (from the same bag), same recipe.
>Same bread machine cycle. What else is there?
>
>This is a great recipe. What should I try next to get a successful loaf?


WHAT recipe, you dumbest of dumb pieces of shit... I see no recipe, great or
otherwise... sheesh, how much dumber will they get.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

>"Lee B Dumb." ?????????????
>
>I've made this recipe (in my bread machine) dozens of times, and it always
>turns out perfect. However the last two times the bread has fallen. It
>raises fine, and then while baking it falls!
>
>My bread machine recipe book says it could be too much yeast (I always use
>1 tsp, which is 1/2 what the recipe calls for) or too much water (I tried
>to use a bit less this time, dough was not sticking to sides of pan at all
>while kneading). Same yeast, same flour (from the same bag), same recipe.
>Same bread machine cycle. What else is there?
>
>This is a great recipe. What should I try next to get a successful loaf?


WHAT recipe, you dumbest of dumb pieces of shit... I see no recipe, great or
otherwise... sheesh, how much dumber will they get.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

wrote on 05 Aug 2004:


> The weather, for one thing. Flour readily absorbs and gives off
> moisture depending on the ambient humidity and the freshness of the
> flour, enough to change its behavior in breadmaking. Professional
> bakers typically weigh their flour rather than depend on measuring
> volume (as with a measuring cup) to account for the differences in
> moisture content.
>
> Also, flour (or any other milled grain product) doesn't age
> gracefully. From the moment it's milled, various components of the
> flour start to deteriorate, each in its own way. This can affect the
> finished product. The most noticeable sign of really stale flour for
> most people is a rancid smell, but other things like color and texture
> can be clues to an experienced baker that the flour is not what it
> should be.
>
> Some of the books dedicated to bread machine baking encourage a "high
> touch" approach, where instead of "setting and forgetting", you
> monitor the progress of the dough making and baking at key points in
> the process. One book I've looked at said that you should open the
> lid of the machine while the dough is being kneaded, to touch and/or
> pinch the dough. This allows you to see whether the dough feels
> "right", and gives you an opportunity to take corrective action if
> needed, by adding more liquid or more flour. The book tried to
> describe what "right" feels like, but in the end your own experience
> and instinct is what you have to go by. (It's doubtful that any bread
> machine instruction manual would advise the user to open the machine
> while it's running and feel the dough, simply for liability reasons.)
>
> The books encourage the bread machine user to err on the side of too
> little liquid to start with. This takes into account the variable
> moisture content of the flour, and the fact that, in a bread machine,
> it's easier to dribble in a little extra water while the dough is
> being kneaded, versus trying to add enough flour to absorb excessive
> liquid.
>
> Bob
>

Thanks Bob. The book I'm using is More Bread Machine Magic (Light
Oatmeal Bread), not the one that came with the bread machine, and I have
always monitored the dough as it starts to knead, adding a bit more
water if necessary. But your point about the flour is well taken. I have
had success with other loaves made from this bag of flour, but I'm
getting to the bottom of the bag. Also, the weather has been very warm..

--
Lee

wrote on 05 Aug 2004:


> The weather, for one thing. Flour readily absorbs and gives off
> moisture depending on the ambient humidity and the freshness of the
> flour, enough to change its behavior in breadmaking. Professional
> bakers typically weigh their flour rather than depend on measuring
> volume (as with a measuring cup) to account for the differences in
> moisture content.
>
> Also, flour (or any other milled grain product) doesn't age
> gracefully. From the moment it's milled, various components of the
> flour start to deteriorate, each in its own way. This can affect the
> finished product. The most noticeable sign of really stale flour for
> most people is a rancid smell, but other things like color and texture
> can be clues to an experienced baker that the flour is not what it
> should be.
>
> Some of the books dedicated to bread machine baking encourage a "high
> touch" approach, where instead of "setting and forgetting", you
> monitor the progress of the dough making and baking at key points in
> the process. One book I've looked at said that you should open the
> lid of the machine while the dough is being kneaded, to touch and/or
> pinch the dough. This allows you to see whether the dough feels
> "right", and gives you an opportunity to take corrective action if
> needed, by adding more liquid or more flour. The book tried to
> describe what "right" feels like, but in the end your own experience
> and instinct is what you have to go by. (It's doubtful that any bread
> machine instruction manual would advise the user to open the machine
> while it's running and feel the dough, simply for liability reasons.)
>
> The books encourage the bread machine user to err on the side of too
> little liquid to start with. This takes into account the variable
> moisture content of the flour, and the fact that, in a bread machine,
> it's easier to dribble in a little extra water while the dough is
> being kneaded, versus trying to add enough flour to absorb excessive
> liquid.
>
> Bob
>

Thanks Bob. The book I'm using is More Bread Machine Magic (Light
Oatmeal Bread), not the one that came with the bread machine, and I have
always monitored the dough as it starts to knead, adding a bit more
water if necessary. But your point about the flour is well taken. I have
had success with other loaves made from this bag of flour, but I'm
getting to the bottom of the bag. Also, the weather has been very warm..

--
Lee

Vox Humana wrote on 05 Aug 2004:

> It might be the temperature of the ingredients. Water from the tap is
> warmer in the summer as are room temperature ingredients. The cause
> of the bread falling is over-proofing. In other words, it expended
> too much. I would start with colder liquid and not use the delay
> feature. If you aren't using high gluten flour, you might try
> switching.

Thanks. Weather has been very warm here lately. Maybe that is the
problem. And this recipe recommends the "rapid bake" cycle, but I've
never had good luck with that cycle, not enough rise. In fact I was in a
hurry and tried it on the batch just prior to the failed batches. It
didn't rise enough... I have never used the delay feature, but I'll try
colder water. Not sure about the gluten, I'm using bread flour (Western
Family brand, I think).


--
Lee B.

Vox Humana wrote on 05 Aug 2004:

> It might be the temperature of the ingredients. Water from the tap is
> warmer in the summer as are room temperature ingredients. The cause
> of the bread falling is over-proofing. In other words, it expended
> too much. I would start with colder liquid and not use the delay
> feature. If you aren't using high gluten flour, you might try
> switching.

Thanks. Weather has been very warm here lately. Maybe that is the
problem. And this recipe recommends the "rapid bake" cycle, but I've
never had good luck with that cycle, not enough rise. In fact I was in a
hurry and tried it on the batch just prior to the failed batches. It
didn't rise enough... I have never used the delay feature, but I'll try
colder water. Not sure about the gluten, I'm using bread flour (Western
Family brand, I think).


--
Lee B.

hahabogus wrote on 05 Aug 2004:

> What have you done differently ...Have you changed flours or brands of
> yeast? Perhaps you let the bread sit too long in the ABM.
>
> Without a recipe how can anybody help?

Thanks, no changes of flour or yeast. Same bag of flour, same jar of
yeast as successful loaves. Same bread machine cycle. Not using delay
feature.

0.75 c oatmeal
1.25 c water
2 Tbl applesauce
2 Tbl brown sugar
1 tsp salt
2.75 c bread flour
1.25 tsp yeast

--
Lee

hahabogus wrote on 05 Aug 2004:

> What have you done differently ...Have you changed flours or brands of
> yeast? Perhaps you let the bread sit too long in the ABM.
>
> Without a recipe how can anybody help?

Thanks, no changes of flour or yeast. Same bag of flour, same jar of
yeast as successful loaves. Same bread machine cycle. Not using delay
feature.

0.75 c oatmeal
1.25 c water
2 Tbl applesauce
2 Tbl brown sugar
1 tsp salt
2.75 c bread flour
1.25 tsp yeast

--
Lee

hahabogus wrote on 05 Aug 2004:

> What have you done differently ...Have you changed flours or brands of
> yeast? Perhaps you let the bread sit too long in the ABM.
>
> Without a recipe how can anybody help?

Thanks, no changes of flour or yeast. Same bag of flour, same jar of
yeast as successful loaves. Same bread machine cycle. Not using delay
feature.

0.75 c oatmeal
1.25 c water
2 Tbl applesauce
2 Tbl brown sugar
1 tsp salt
2.75 c bread flour
1.25 tsp yeast

--
Lee