Try giving him/her a small plate (salad size or smaller) with very small
portions of each food. Cut up vegetables. Think how threatening a big spear
of broccoli can look to someone who doesn't like it. Ask them to finish the
plate before they get more of everything.

On 8/6/2004 6:13 PM Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these great
(and sometimes not so great) words of knowledge:

> Try giving him/her a small plate (salad size or smaller) with very small
> portions of each food. Cut up vegetables. Think how threatening a big spear
> of broccoli can look to someone who doesn't like it. Ask them to finish the
> plate before they get more of everything.

You will need your spouse/SO to back you up on this and also to follow
through. This will work. It is called 2 things - Discipline and Tough
Love.

You TELL the kid to eat it. They refuse, fine. They get the same thing
on their plate for the next meal. They get NOTHING ELSE until they eat
it. You keep doing this until they eat it.

For instance, they will not eat broccoli at supper. First, no desert or
snacks. They get the broccoli for breakfast. If they eat it, THEN they
can have a "normal" breakfast. They don't eat it, back in the fridge
until lunch and we do it again, and again and again until they do eat
it. I promise they will eat it by day 3 AND THEY WILL BE NO WORSE FOR
IT (and they will not starve either). Of course you may be "a little
worse for wear" with all the yelling and screaming, but that is another
issue that is best handled in the "woodshed".

There is no such thing as an unruly child or dog, just ineffectual
parents/owners.

On 8/6/2004 6:13 PM Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these great
(and sometimes not so great) words of knowledge:

> Try giving him/her a small plate (salad size or smaller) with very small
> portions of each food. Cut up vegetables. Think how threatening a big spear
> of broccoli can look to someone who doesn't like it. Ask them to finish the
> plate before they get more of everything.

You will need your spouse/SO to back you up on this and also to follow
through. This will work. It is called 2 things - Discipline and Tough
Love.

You TELL the kid to eat it. They refuse, fine. They get the same thing
on their plate for the next meal. They get NOTHING ELSE until they eat
it. You keep doing this until they eat it.

For instance, they will not eat broccoli at supper. First, no desert or
snacks. They get the broccoli for breakfast. If they eat it, THEN they
can have a "normal" breakfast. They don't eat it, back in the fridge
until lunch and we do it again, and again and again until they do eat
it. I promise they will eat it by day 3 AND THEY WILL BE NO WORSE FOR
IT (and they will not starve either). Of course you may be "a little
worse for wear" with all the yelling and screaming, but that is another
issue that is best handled in the "woodshed".

There is no such thing as an unruly child or dog, just ineffectual
parents/owners.

On 8/6/2004 6:13 PM Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these great
(and sometimes not so great) words of knowledge:

> Try giving him/her a small plate (salad size or smaller) with very small
> portions of each food. Cut up vegetables. Think how threatening a big spear
> of broccoli can look to someone who doesn't like it. Ask them to finish the
> plate before they get more of everything.

You will need your spouse/SO to back you up on this and also to follow
through. This will work. It is called 2 things - Discipline and Tough
Love.

You TELL the kid to eat it. They refuse, fine. They get the same thing
on their plate for the next meal. They get NOTHING ELSE until they eat
it. You keep doing this until they eat it.

For instance, they will not eat broccoli at supper. First, no desert or
snacks. They get the broccoli for breakfast. If they eat it, THEN they
can have a "normal" breakfast. They don't eat it, back in the fridge
until lunch and we do it again, and again and again until they do eat
it. I promise they will eat it by day 3 AND THEY WILL BE NO WORSE FOR
IT (and they will not starve either). Of course you may be "a little
worse for wear" with all the yelling and screaming, but that is another
issue that is best handled in the "woodshed".

There is no such thing as an unruly child or dog, just ineffectual
parents/owners.

Ted Campanelli > wrote in
:

> On 8/6/2004 6:13 PM Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these
> great (and sometimes not so great) words of knowledge:
>
>> Try giving him/her a small plate (salad size or smaller) with very
>> small portions of each food. Cut up vegetables. Think how
>> threatening a big spear of broccoli can look to someone who doesn't
>> like it. Ask them to finish the plate before they get more of
>> everything.
>
> You will need your spouse/SO to back you up on this and also to follow
> through. This will work. It is called 2 things - Discipline and
> Tough Love.
>
> You TELL the kid to eat it. They refuse, fine. They get the same
> thing on their plate for the next meal. They get NOTHING ELSE until
> they eat
> it. You keep doing this until they eat it.
>
> For instance, they will not eat broccoli at supper. First, no desert
> or snacks. They get the broccoli for breakfast. If they eat it, THEN
> they can have a "normal" breakfast. They don't eat it, back in the
> fridge until lunch and we do it again, and again and again until they
> do eat it. I promise they will eat it by day 3 AND THEY WILL BE NO
> WORSE FOR IT (and they will not starve either). Of course you may be
> "a little worse for wear" with all the yelling and screaming, but that
> is another issue that is best handled in the "woodshed".
>
> There is no such thing as an unruly child or dog, just ineffectual
> parents/owners.

You sound just like "Mommy Dearest"!

--
Wayne in Phoenix

If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.

Ted Campanelli > wrote in
:

> On 8/6/2004 6:13 PM Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these
> great (and sometimes not so great) words of knowledge:
>
>> Try giving him/her a small plate (salad size or smaller) with very
>> small portions of each food. Cut up vegetables. Think how
>> threatening a big spear of broccoli can look to someone who doesn't
>> like it. Ask them to finish the plate before they get more of
>> everything.
>
> You will need your spouse/SO to back you up on this and also to follow
> through. This will work. It is called 2 things - Discipline and
> Tough Love.
>
> You TELL the kid to eat it. They refuse, fine. They get the same
> thing on their plate for the next meal. They get NOTHING ELSE until
> they eat
> it. You keep doing this until they eat it.
>
> For instance, they will not eat broccoli at supper. First, no desert
> or snacks. They get the broccoli for breakfast. If they eat it, THEN
> they can have a "normal" breakfast. They don't eat it, back in the
> fridge until lunch and we do it again, and again and again until they
> do eat it. I promise they will eat it by day 3 AND THEY WILL BE NO
> WORSE FOR IT (and they will not starve either). Of course you may be
> "a little worse for wear" with all the yelling and screaming, but that
> is another issue that is best handled in the "woodshed".
>
> There is no such thing as an unruly child or dog, just ineffectual
> parents/owners.

You sound just like "Mommy Dearest"!

--
Wayne in Phoenix

If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.

Ted Campanelli > wrote in
:

> On 8/6/2004 6:13 PM Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these
> great (and sometimes not so great) words of knowledge:
>
>> Try giving him/her a small plate (salad size or smaller) with very
>> small portions of each food. Cut up vegetables. Think how
>> threatening a big spear of broccoli can look to someone who doesn't
>> like it. Ask them to finish the plate before they get more of
>> everything.
>
> You will need your spouse/SO to back you up on this and also to follow
> through. This will work. It is called 2 things - Discipline and
> Tough Love.
>
> You TELL the kid to eat it. They refuse, fine. They get the same
> thing on their plate for the next meal. They get NOTHING ELSE until
> they eat
> it. You keep doing this until they eat it.
>
> For instance, they will not eat broccoli at supper. First, no desert
> or snacks. They get the broccoli for breakfast. If they eat it, THEN
> they can have a "normal" breakfast. They don't eat it, back in the
> fridge until lunch and we do it again, and again and again until they
> do eat it. I promise they will eat it by day 3 AND THEY WILL BE NO
> WORSE FOR IT (and they will not starve either). Of course you may be
> "a little worse for wear" with all the yelling and screaming, but that
> is another issue that is best handled in the "woodshed".
>
> There is no such thing as an unruly child or dog, just ineffectual
> parents/owners.

You sound just like "Mommy Dearest"!

--
Wayne in Phoenix

If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.

>Ted *Ba Fongule* Campanelli gesticulated:
>
>You TELL the kid to eat it. They refuse, fine. They get the same thing
>on their plate for the next meal. They get NOTHING ELSE until they eat
> it. You keep doing this until they eat it.
>
>For instance, they will not eat broccoli at supper. First, no desert or
>snacks. They get the broccoli for breakfast. If they eat it, THEN they
>can have a "normal" breakfast. They don't eat it, back in the fridge
>until lunch and we do it again, and again and again until they do eat
>it. I promise they will eat it by day 3 AND THEY WILL BE NO WORSE FOR
>IT (and they will not starve either). Of course you may be "a little
>worse for wear" with all the yelling and screaming, but that is another
>issue that is best handled in the "woodshed".
>
>There is no such thing as an unruly child or dog, just ineffectual
>parents/owners.

Typical brainless WOP, everything settled with coersion, intimidation, and
violence.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 14:18:51 +0000, Ted Campanelli wrote:

> For instance, they will not eat broccoli at supper. First, no desert or
> snacks. They get the broccoli for breakfast. If they eat it, THEN they
> can have a "normal" breakfast. They don't eat it, back in the fridge
> until lunch and we do it again, and again and again until they do eat
> it. I promise they will eat it by day 3 AND THEY WILL BE NO WORSE FOR
> IT (and they will not starve either). Of course you may be "a little
> worse for wear" with all the yelling and screaming, but that is another
> issue that is best handled in the "woodshed".

And the purpose of this is? Is this for the kid's good or to satisfy your
own warped ego? Is a piece of broccoli really worth 3 days of screaming
and yelling?

What have you achieved? Do you really think this kid will eat broccoli on
their own? They will hate it. They may end up hating you.

I was actually put into that position once as a kid. I forget what the
particular food was; it was so repulsive to me that I kept gagging on it.
I was forced to eat it by methods similar to what you propose and ended up
projectile vomiting all over the table.

Would you then carefully package up the vomit and serve it at the next
meal?

Doesn't it make much more sense to simply follow basic rules of respect?
Present the food, allow the kid to take as much as they want. "You take
what you want, you eat what you take." If the food is new or strange, let
them taste it; if they don't like it, don't punish them for it. Would you
want to try anything new if you had to eat it once it was put in front of
you?

The kind of "tough love" you propose is everything but. It's a great way
to make sure your kids are afraid to try anything new and fear
unreasonable punishment for things that are not their fault.

Food should never be a source of contention. It should be an adventure
that kids get to explore.

--Kamus

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 14:18:51 +0000, Ted Campanelli wrote:

> For instance, they will not eat broccoli at supper. First, no desert or
> snacks. They get the broccoli for breakfast. If they eat it, THEN they
> can have a "normal" breakfast. They don't eat it, back in the fridge
> until lunch and we do it again, and again and again until they do eat
> it. I promise they will eat it by day 3 AND THEY WILL BE NO WORSE FOR
> IT (and they will not starve either). Of course you may be "a little
> worse for wear" with all the yelling and screaming, but that is another
> issue that is best handled in the "woodshed".

And the purpose of this is? Is this for the kid's good or to satisfy your
own warped ego? Is a piece of broccoli really worth 3 days of screaming
and yelling?

What have you achieved? Do you really think this kid will eat broccoli on
their own? They will hate it. They may end up hating you.

I was actually put into that position once as a kid. I forget what the
particular food was; it was so repulsive to me that I kept gagging on it.
I was forced to eat it by methods similar to what you propose and ended up
projectile vomiting all over the table.

Would you then carefully package up the vomit and serve it at the next
meal?

Doesn't it make much more sense to simply follow basic rules of respect?
Present the food, allow the kid to take as much as they want. "You take
what you want, you eat what you take." If the food is new or strange, let
them taste it; if they don't like it, don't punish them for it. Would you
want to try anything new if you had to eat it once it was put in front of
you?

The kind of "tough love" you propose is everything but. It's a great way
to make sure your kids are afraid to try anything new and fear
unreasonable punishment for things that are not their fault.

Food should never be a source of contention. It should be an adventure
that kids get to explore.

--Kamus

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 14:18:51 +0000, Ted Campanelli wrote:

> For instance, they will not eat broccoli at supper. First, no desert or
> snacks. They get the broccoli for breakfast. If they eat it, THEN they
> can have a "normal" breakfast. They don't eat it, back in the fridge
> until lunch and we do it again, and again and again until they do eat
> it. I promise they will eat it by day 3 AND THEY WILL BE NO WORSE FOR
> IT (and they will not starve either). Of course you may be "a little
> worse for wear" with all the yelling and screaming, but that is another
> issue that is best handled in the "woodshed".

And the purpose of this is? Is this for the kid's good or to satisfy your
own warped ego? Is a piece of broccoli really worth 3 days of screaming
and yelling?

What have you achieved? Do you really think this kid will eat broccoli on
their own? They will hate it. They may end up hating you.

I was actually put into that position once as a kid. I forget what the
particular food was; it was so repulsive to me that I kept gagging on it.
I was forced to eat it by methods similar to what you propose and ended up
projectile vomiting all over the table.

Would you then carefully package up the vomit and serve it at the next
meal?

Doesn't it make much more sense to simply follow basic rules of respect?
Present the food, allow the kid to take as much as they want. "You take
what you want, you eat what you take." If the food is new or strange, let
them taste it; if they don't like it, don't punish them for it. Would you
want to try anything new if you had to eat it once it was put in front of
you?

The kind of "tough love" you propose is everything but. It's a great way
to make sure your kids are afraid to try anything new and fear
unreasonable punishment for things that are not their fault.

Food should never be a source of contention. It should be an adventure
that kids get to explore.

--Kamus

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 11:46:04 +0000, raymond wrote:

> It's useless to try to *ask* a nine-year-old to do anything. You
> *tell* a nine-year-old to finish the plate.

You've obviously never had to deal with a kid....

--Kamus

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 11:46:04 +0000, raymond wrote:

> It's useless to try to *ask* a nine-year-old to do anything. You
> *tell* a nine-year-old to finish the plate.

You've obviously never had to deal with a kid....

--Kamus

Ted Campanelli wrote:

> You will need your spouse/SO to back you up on this and also to follow
> through. This will work. It is called 2 things - Discipline and Tough
> Love.
> You TELL the kid to eat it. They refuse, fine. They get the same thing
> on their plate for the next meal. They get NOTHING ELSE until they eat
> it. You keep doing this until they eat it.


Hey, now that beating kids 'til they're black and blue and having sex
with them is against the law, why not?

--Lia

Ted Campanelli wrote:

> You will need your spouse/SO to back you up on this and also to follow
> through. This will work. It is called 2 things - Discipline and Tough
> Love.
> You TELL the kid to eat it. They refuse, fine. They get the same thing
> on their plate for the next meal. They get NOTHING ELSE until they eat
> it. You keep doing this until they eat it.


Hey, now that beating kids 'til they're black and blue and having sex
with them is against the law, why not?

--Lia

Ted Campanelli wrote:

> You will need your spouse/SO to back you up on this and also to follow
> through. This will work. It is called 2 things - Discipline and Tough
> Love.
> You TELL the kid to eat it. They refuse, fine. They get the same thing
> on their plate for the next meal. They get NOTHING ELSE until they eat
> it. You keep doing this until they eat it.


Hey, now that beating kids 'til they're black and blue and having sex
with them is against the law, why not?

--Lia

Ted Campanelli wrote:

> You will need your spouse/SO to back you up on this and also to follow
> through. This will work. It is called 2 things - Discipline and Tough
> Love.
> You TELL the kid to eat it. They refuse, fine. They get the same thing
> on their plate for the next meal. They get NOTHING ELSE until they eat
> it. You keep doing this until they eat it.


Hey, now that beating kids 'til they're black and blue and having sex
with them is against the law, why not?

--Lia

raymond wrote:

> It's useless to try to *ask* a nine-year-old to do anything. You
> *tell* a nine-year-old to finish the plate.


This speaks volumes about the way you relate to people, not just
children. What a sad situation where 9 year olds are so unhappy with
their own parents that they won't do anything the parents say unless
coerced. I imagine it is the same way with your co-workers, employees,
and wife. Notice I didn't say friends. Do you have any? How do you
get them to eat at your home unless you tell them to finish what's on
their plate?


In my world, kids are essentially cooperative. There are times now and
then when they might get yelled at, have a privilege removed, be on the
receiving end of a lecture or be put in a time out, but those times are
short lived and rare. The rest of the time, no orders are given, and
everyone cooperates with everyone else in a spirit of love and fun.


--Lia

raymond wrote:

> It's useless to try to *ask* a nine-year-old to do anything. You
> *tell* a nine-year-old to finish the plate.


This speaks volumes about the way you relate to people, not just
children. What a sad situation where 9 year olds are so unhappy with
their own parents that they won't do anything the parents say unless
coerced. I imagine it is the same way with your co-workers, employees,
and wife. Notice I didn't say friends. Do you have any? How do you
get them to eat at your home unless you tell them to finish what's on
their plate?


In my world, kids are essentially cooperative. There are times now and
then when they might get yelled at, have a privilege removed, be on the
receiving end of a lecture or be put in a time out, but those times are
short lived and rare. The rest of the time, no orders are given, and
everyone cooperates with everyone else in a spirit of love and fun.


--Lia

raymond wrote:

> It's useless to try to *ask* a nine-year-old to do anything. You
> *tell* a nine-year-old to finish the plate.


This speaks volumes about the way you relate to people, not just
children. What a sad situation where 9 year olds are so unhappy with
their own parents that they won't do anything the parents say unless
coerced. I imagine it is the same way with your co-workers, employees,
and wife. Notice I didn't say friends. Do you have any? How do you
get them to eat at your home unless you tell them to finish what's on
their plate?


In my world, kids are essentially cooperative. There are times now and
then when they might get yelled at, have a privilege removed, be on the
receiving end of a lecture or be put in a time out, but those times are
short lived and rare. The rest of the time, no orders are given, and
everyone cooperates with everyone else in a spirit of love and fun.


--Lia

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 14:18:51 GMT, Ted Campanelli
> wrote:

> There is no such thing as an unruly child or dog, just ineffectual
> parents/owners.


First of all I don't believe in heaping food on kids plates.
That's a good way to get into a food fight. If they want
more of something, they can always ask for it.

However, I did have the 3 bite rule. Take 3 bites (which
didn't need to be huge), chew and swallow each one. If you
still don't like it at the end of swallow #3, you don't have
to finish - but at least you tasted it.

My 27 year old son says he used to hate me for that rule
because by bite #4 he usually liked it and hated to admit I
was right after all. LOL

sf
Practice safe eating - always use condiments

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 14:18:51 GMT, Ted Campanelli
> wrote:

> There is no such thing as an unruly child or dog, just ineffectual
> parents/owners.


First of all I don't believe in heaping food on kids plates.
That's a good way to get into a food fight. If they want
more of something, they can always ask for it.

However, I did have the 3 bite rule. Take 3 bites (which
didn't need to be huge), chew and swallow each one. If you
still don't like it at the end of swallow #3, you don't have
to finish - but at least you tasted it.

My 27 year old son says he used to hate me for that rule
because by bite #4 he usually liked it and hated to admit I
was right after all. LOL

sf
Practice safe eating - always use condiments

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 14:18:51 GMT, Ted Campanelli
> wrote:

> There is no such thing as an unruly child or dog, just ineffectual
> parents/owners.


First of all I don't believe in heaping food on kids plates.
That's a good way to get into a food fight. If they want
more of something, they can always ask for it.

However, I did have the 3 bite rule. Take 3 bites (which
didn't need to be huge), chew and swallow each one. If you
still don't like it at the end of swallow #3, you don't have
to finish - but at least you tasted it.

My 27 year old son says he used to hate me for that rule
because by bite #4 he usually liked it and hated to admit I
was right after all. LOL

sf
Practice safe eating - always use condiments

"sf" > wrote:
> However, I did have the 3 bite rule. Take 3 bites (which
> didn't need to be huge), chew and swallow each one. If you
> still don't like it at the end of swallow #3, you don't have
> to finish - but at least you tasted it.

Sometimes you just can't reason with a kid... the above reminds me of an
experience with a niece of mine about 30 years ago. She was not real keen
with hot dogs at the time. We thought she had at least tried out a bite of
the hot dog. After dinner we went for a ride in the car. When we got to our
destination about 1/2 hour later, we noticed she had something in her mouth.
What was it?... that one bite of hot dog she took. It was so absolutely
horrible to her that she would not swallow it... but she was willing to keep
it in her mouth all that time!You would think she would have just swallowed
it to get rid of the taste in her mouth.

"sf" > wrote:
> However, I did have the 3 bite rule. Take 3 bites (which
> didn't need to be huge), chew and swallow each one. If you
> still don't like it at the end of swallow #3, you don't have
> to finish - but at least you tasted it.

Sometimes you just can't reason with a kid... the above reminds me of an
experience with a niece of mine about 30 years ago. She was not real keen
with hot dogs at the time. We thought she had at least tried out a bite of
the hot dog. After dinner we went for a ride in the car. When we got to our
destination about 1/2 hour later, we noticed she had something in her mouth.
What was it?... that one bite of hot dog she took. It was so absolutely
horrible to her that she would not swallow it... but she was willing to keep
it in her mouth all that time!You would think she would have just swallowed
it to get rid of the taste in her mouth.

"sf" > wrote:
> However, I did have the 3 bite rule. Take 3 bites (which
> didn't need to be huge), chew and swallow each one. If you
> still don't like it at the end of swallow #3, you don't have
> to finish - but at least you tasted it.

Sometimes you just can't reason with a kid... the above reminds me of an
experience with a niece of mine about 30 years ago. She was not real keen
with hot dogs at the time. We thought she had at least tried out a bite of
the hot dog. After dinner we went for a ride in the car. When we got to our
destination about 1/2 hour later, we noticed she had something in her mouth.
What was it?... that one bite of hot dog she took. It was so absolutely
horrible to her that she would not swallow it... but she was willing to keep
it in her mouth all that time!You would think she would have just swallowed
it to get rid of the taste in her mouth.

Julia Altshuler > wrote in news:jS8Rc.263140
$XM6.91190@attbi_s53:

> raymond wrote:
>
>> It's useless to try to *ask* a nine-year-old to do anything. You
>> *tell* a nine-year-old to finish the plate.
>
>
> This speaks volumes about the way you relate to people, not just
> children. What a sad situation where 9 year olds are so unhappy with
> their own parents that they won't do anything the parents say unless
> coerced. I imagine it is the same way with your co-workers, employees,
> and wife. Notice I didn't say friends. Do you have any? How do you
> get them to eat at your home unless you tell them to finish what's on
> their plate?
>
>
> In my world, kids are essentially cooperative. There are times now and
> then when they might get yelled at, have a privilege removed, be on the
> receiving end of a lecture or be put in a time out, but those times are
> short lived and rare. The rest of the time, no orders are given, and
> everyone cooperates with everyone else in a spirit of love and fun.

Gee, where do you live, Lia? Over the Rainbow? <G>

I think most folks are somewhere inbetween Raymond and you.

--
Wayne in Phoenix

If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.

Ted Campanelli wrote:

> On 8/6/2004 6:13 PM Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these
> great (and sometimes not so great) words of knowledge:
>
>> Try giving him/her a small plate (salad size or smaller) with
>> very small portions of each food. Cut up vegetables. Think how
>> threatening a big spear of broccoli can look to someone who
>> doesn't like it. Ask them to finish the plate before they get
>> more of everything.
>
> You will need your spouse/SO to back you up on this and also to
> follow through. This will work. It is called 2 things -
> Discipline and Tough Love.

Actually, it's neither.

It's punishment...

for breaking an arbitrary rule based solely on the principle that
whatever you say *must* be observed irrespective of benefit to anyone.
That's not love, its dictatorship with no guiding principle beyond
absolute obedience.

> You TELL the kid to eat it. They refuse, fine. They get the same
> thing on their plate for the next meal. They get NOTHING ELSE
> until they eat it. You keep doing this until they eat it.

What benefit comes from this? Satisfaction of a controlling, ego-based
system of life rules?

How is the life of the child improved by this? How is your life
improved by this? The implications above of "discipline" and "tough
love" are that someone endure present discomfort for some ultimate
good. There is certainly discomfort. There is no ultimate good.

> For instance, they will not eat broccoli at supper. First, no
> desert or snacks. They get the broccoli for breakfast. If they
> eat it, THEN they can have a "normal" breakfast. They don't eat
> it, back in the fridge until lunch and we do it again, and again
> and again until they do eat it. I promise they will eat it by day
> 3 AND THEY WILL BE NO WORSE FOR IT (and they will not starve
> either).

And your ego will be satisfied that you can browbeat a child into
doing what you want them to do.

The larger question here isn't whether "THEY WILL BE NO WORSE FOR IT"
but whether they will be any better for it. I'm afraid I can't see any
way they or you will be better people for the whole exercise. Beyond
that, if this is the norm for how they'll be treated, it's very likely
that it will breed hatred and, even worse, will create more people who
treat others this way. The cycle perpetuates.

"THEY WILL BE NO WORSE FOR IT" - what a wonderful motto for how to
deal with others. I find this repellent and, frankly, stupid. It deals
only with the immediacy of the situation. Not *why* they should eat
broccoli if they find it distasteful. Not *why* the need to eat
broccoli at all. Not *how* this is an expression of love. Not *who*
benefits from this exercise of smug, unreasoning surety and the defeat
of a child.

> Of course you may be "a little worse for wear" with all
> the yelling and screaming, but that is another issue that is best
> handled in the "woodshed".

Let me see if I have this right. When you were a kid, chances are good
that there were foods you didn't like. Your parents *made* you eat
them. That's not love, it's bullying. It's coercion for the sake of
coercion.

The rule that has been in effect in my house is that kids have to
taste everything before saying yuck. And, if they say yuck, they don't
have to eat it ever again, if they don't want to. Just like an adult.
Maybe kids shouldn't be in charge of heavy equipment, but they can
certainly be in charge of their tastes. The net effect is that
mealtime has always been a relaxed time with no contests of wills. The
kids are all four venturesome eaters because they know what there's no
penalty for trying something new. If they know that they'll have to
eat it no matter their response, they take small portions and try to
gag them down if they don't like it. Not for love, but to avoid being
browbeaten and humiliated. They won't eagerly embrace the untried for
fear they won't like it and will still have to eat it. WHere's the good?

We never made anything special for the kids to replace our normal
menus. Because of the balance of our normal meals, there was always
something for them to eat. If they didn't want anything on the table
(I don't recall that ever happening) there would always be bread and
butter or something else leftover from a previous meal. It was a
frequent situation that they chose the menus based on what was
available. It was also funny to see them picking things to prepare for
dinner that they didn't like but that others did. They wouldn't eat
it, whatever it was, but the others would be pleased that they were
considered.

My parents' style was "You'll sit there until you eat it." There were
nights I sat until midnight because I just couldn't stomach it,
whatever it was. I learned how to not eat the food and sneak it out in
my pocket. I learned how to evade their orders. Later, when I had kids
of my own, I decided that respecting their tastes in this small arena
would be a better way to operate. Would be a whole lot closer to
treating them as I would like to be treated. I read that in a book
somewhere.

> There is no such thing as an unruly child or dog, just ineffectual
> parents/owners.

And the sad, sad parallel you draw here explains everything about you.
Children and dogs, indeed.

Forgot what it was like to be a kid?

Pastorio

Ted Campanelli wrote:

> On 8/6/2004 6:13 PM Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these
> great (and sometimes not so great) words of knowledge:
>
>> Try giving him/her a small plate (salad size or smaller) with
>> very small portions of each food. Cut up vegetables. Think how
>> threatening a big spear of broccoli can look to someone who
>> doesn't like it. Ask them to finish the plate before they get
>> more of everything.
>
> You will need your spouse/SO to back you up on this and also to
> follow through. This will work. It is called 2 things -
> Discipline and Tough Love.

Actually, it's neither.

It's punishment...

for breaking an arbitrary rule based solely on the principle that
whatever you say *must* be observed irrespective of benefit to anyone.
That's not love, its dictatorship with no guiding principle beyond
absolute obedience.

> You TELL the kid to eat it. They refuse, fine. They get the same
> thing on their plate for the next meal. They get NOTHING ELSE
> until they eat it. You keep doing this until they eat it.

What benefit comes from this? Satisfaction of a controlling, ego-based
system of life rules?

How is the life of the child improved by this? How is your life
improved by this? The implications above of "discipline" and "tough
love" are that someone endure present discomfort for some ultimate
good. There is certainly discomfort. There is no ultimate good.

> For instance, they will not eat broccoli at supper. First, no
> desert or snacks. They get the broccoli for breakfast. If they
> eat it, THEN they can have a "normal" breakfast. They don't eat
> it, back in the fridge until lunch and we do it again, and again
> and again until they do eat it. I promise they will eat it by day
> 3 AND THEY WILL BE NO WORSE FOR IT (and they will not starve
> either).

And your ego will be satisfied that you can browbeat a child into
doing what you want them to do.

The larger question here isn't whether "THEY WILL BE NO WORSE FOR IT"
but whether they will be any better for it. I'm afraid I can't see any
way they or you will be better people for the whole exercise. Beyond
that, if this is the norm for how they'll be treated, it's very likely
that it will breed hatred and, even worse, will create more people who
treat others this way. The cycle perpetuates.

"THEY WILL BE NO WORSE FOR IT" - what a wonderful motto for how to
deal with others. I find this repellent and, frankly, stupid. It deals
only with the immediacy of the situation. Not *why* they should eat
broccoli if they find it distasteful. Not *why* the need to eat
broccoli at all. Not *how* this is an expression of love. Not *who*
benefits from this exercise of smug, unreasoning surety and the defeat
of a child.

> Of course you may be "a little worse for wear" with all
> the yelling and screaming, but that is another issue that is best
> handled in the "woodshed".

Let me see if I have this right. When you were a kid, chances are good
that there were foods you didn't like. Your parents *made* you eat
them. That's not love, it's bullying. It's coercion for the sake of
coercion.

The rule that has been in effect in my house is that kids have to
taste everything before saying yuck. And, if they say yuck, they don't
have to eat it ever again, if they don't want to. Just like an adult.
Maybe kids shouldn't be in charge of heavy equipment, but they can
certainly be in charge of their tastes. The net effect is that
mealtime has always been a relaxed time with no contests of wills. The
kids are all four venturesome eaters because they know what there's no
penalty for trying something new. If they know that they'll have to
eat it no matter their response, they take small portions and try to
gag them down if they don't like it. Not for love, but to avoid being
browbeaten and humiliated. They won't eagerly embrace the untried for
fear they won't like it and will still have to eat it. WHere's the good?

We never made anything special for the kids to replace our normal
menus. Because of the balance of our normal meals, there was always
something for them to eat. If they didn't want anything on the table
(I don't recall that ever happening) there would always be bread and
butter or something else leftover from a previous meal. It was a
frequent situation that they chose the menus based on what was
available. It was also funny to see them picking things to prepare for
dinner that they didn't like but that others did. They wouldn't eat
it, whatever it was, but the others would be pleased that they were
considered.

My parents' style was "You'll sit there until you eat it." There were
nights I sat until midnight because I just couldn't stomach it,
whatever it was. I learned how to not eat the food and sneak it out in
my pocket. I learned how to evade their orders. Later, when I had kids
of my own, I decided that respecting their tastes in this small arena
would be a better way to operate. Would be a whole lot closer to
treating them as I would like to be treated. I read that in a book
somewhere.

> There is no such thing as an unruly child or dog, just ineffectual
> parents/owners.

And the sad, sad parallel you draw here explains everything about you.
Children and dogs, indeed.

Forgot what it was like to be a kid?

Pastorio

Bob (this one) wrote:
> Ted Campanelli wrote:
>> There is no such thing as an unruly child or dog, just ineffectual
>> parents/owners.
>
> And the sad, sad parallel you draw here explains everything about you.
> Children and dogs, indeed.
>
> Forgot what it was like to be a kid?
>
> Pastorio
>

I think he forgot what it's like to be a dog. HTH :^)

Bob

Bob (this one) wrote:
> Ted Campanelli wrote:
>> There is no such thing as an unruly child or dog, just ineffectual
>> parents/owners.
>
> And the sad, sad parallel you draw here explains everything about you.
> Children and dogs, indeed.
>
> Forgot what it was like to be a kid?
>
> Pastorio
>

I think he forgot what it's like to be a dog. HTH :^)

Bob

"PENMART01" > wrote in message
...
> >Ted *Ba Fongule* Campanelli gesticulated:
> >
> >You TELL the kid to eat it. They refuse, fine. They get the same thing
> >on their plate for the next meal. They get NOTHING ELSE until they eat
> > it. You keep doing this until they eat it.
> >
> >For instance, they will not eat broccoli at supper. First, no desert or
> >snacks. They get the broccoli for breakfast. If they eat it, THEN they
> >can have a "normal" breakfast. They don't eat it, back in the fridge
> >until lunch and we do it again, and again and again until they do eat
> >it. I promise they will eat it by day 3 AND THEY WILL BE NO WORSE FOR
> >IT (and they will not starve either). Of course you may be "a little
> >worse for wear" with all the yelling and screaming, but that is another
> >issue that is best handled in the "woodshed".
> >
> >There is no such thing as an unruly child or dog, just ineffectual
> >parents/owners.
>
> Typical brainless WOP, everything settled with coersion, intimidation, and
> violence.
>
And "settled" with an eating disorder in later life, no doubt.
I had this sort of treatment metered on me by a school teacher as a seven
year old and it was no doubt responsible for my fear of eating in public and
eating in general thereafter. She would force me (or other children who
passed up on any item offered for school dinners) to eat every bite in her
office, standing over us, sometimes forcing the food into our mouths, even
if it took all afternoon, following us to the bathroom and waiting outside
the cubicle door until we came out or denying us toilet visits completely.
We then went back into her office if we did get to go to the bathroom and
were forced again to eat. If we wouldn't put the food in our mouths we were
told we were not allowed to go home until we did and that our parents would
be called and would punish us severely for being so naughty. Vomiting,
crying, begging or sheer panic associations invited in the slipper or a
forced second helping. I hated her with all of my being.
As a result of this I developed an eating disorder that meant I could not be
watched whilst I ate, by anyone, including my family (who, once they found
out this treatment was being handed out to primary school children, were
utterly horrified.) In my teens I couldn't go to Maccy Do's, or dinner at
friend's houses, or eat in public at all, for fear of being forced into or
coerced into eating something I couldn't stomach - even things I previously
liked became objects of terror if I might have to eat in company. The smell
of food would make me physically sick in some cases.

Only when I met my ex husband, aged twenty, did I start to recover. When I
met him I weighed around six stone (I am five foot five.)

Some children just don't like certain foods, just as adults. I hate broccoli
and I'm thirty one ! My attitude to my step-kids-to-be when it comes to food
has always been, take what you want and eat what you take, as someone else
said here. If you are messing for sure then no dessert - and most parents
can tell the difference between "I genuinely don't like this" and "I am just
messing about for attention", IME. But the sort of so-called "tough love"
that implies you'll get beaten for not eating your greens only satisifies
one thing - the power hungry barely repressed whim of the sadist metering it
out, and it *will* cause long term problems. If you're willing to do that to
your kids for the sake of a plate of eaten broccoli, then you shouldn't have
children in the first place, and I pity your dogs (mine are happy and
healthy and obedient without being beaten or starved, thanks very much.) You
can catch alot more flies with honey than you can with vinegar, at any rate.

Just my two pennies worth.

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 18:54:12 GMT, "wff_ng_6"
> wrote:

> "sf" > wrote:
> > However, I did have the 3 bite rule. Take 3 bites (which
> > didn't need to be huge), chew and swallow each one. If you
> > still don't like it at the end of swallow #3, you don't have
> > to finish - but at least you tasted it.
>
> Sometimes you just can't reason with a kid... the above reminds me of an
> experience with a niece of mine about 30 years ago. She was not real keen
> with hot dogs at the time. We thought she had at least tried out a bite of
> the hot dog. After dinner we went for a ride in the car. When we got to our
> destination about 1/2 hour later, we noticed she had something in her mouth.
> What was it?... that one bite of hot dog she took. It was so absolutely
> horrible to her that she would not swallow it... but she was willing to keep
> it in her mouth all that time!You would think she would have just swallowed
> it to get rid of the taste in her mouth.
>

It was 30 years ago? That means you've seen her grow up and
get on with "life". What is her adult personality like now?
Is she just as stubborn?


sf
Practice safe eating - always use condiments

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 18:54:12 GMT, "wff_ng_6"
> wrote:

> "sf" > wrote:
> > However, I did have the 3 bite rule. Take 3 bites (which
> > didn't need to be huge), chew and swallow each one. If you
> > still don't like it at the end of swallow #3, you don't have
> > to finish - but at least you tasted it.
>
> Sometimes you just can't reason with a kid... the above reminds me of an
> experience with a niece of mine about 30 years ago. She was not real keen
> with hot dogs at the time. We thought she had at least tried out a bite of
> the hot dog. After dinner we went for a ride in the car. When we got to our
> destination about 1/2 hour later, we noticed she had something in her mouth.
> What was it?... that one bite of hot dog she took. It was so absolutely
> horrible to her that she would not swallow it... but she was willing to keep
> it in her mouth all that time!You would think she would have just swallowed
> it to get rid of the taste in her mouth.
>

It was 30 years ago? That means you've seen her grow up and
get on with "life". What is her adult personality like now?
Is she just as stubborn?


sf
Practice safe eating - always use condiments

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 19:08:21 GMT, Wayne >
wrote:

> Gee, where do you live, Lia? Over the Rainbow? <G>
>
> I think most folks are somewhere inbetween Raymond and you.


True.



sf
Practice safe eating - always use condiments

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 19:08:21 GMT, Wayne >
wrote:

> Gee, where do you live, Lia? Over the Rainbow? <G>
>
> I think most folks are somewhere inbetween Raymond and you.


True.



sf
Practice safe eating - always use condiments

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 19:08:21 GMT, Wayne >
wrote:

> Gee, where do you live, Lia? Over the Rainbow? <G>
>
> I think most folks are somewhere inbetween Raymond and you.


True.



sf
Practice safe eating - always use condiments

"sf" > wrote:
> It was 30 years ago? That means you've seen her grow up and
> get on with "life". What is her adult personality like now?
> Is she just as stubborn?

It must have been just that item, as she is not particularly stubborn these
days.

Kids sure can change with regard to their food preferences. One of my
brothers was an extremely picky eater. If our Mom cooked hot dogs in
sauerkraut, my brother's hot dog had to be carefully washed off... I get the
feeling now that the washing was purely psychological and the sauerkraut
flavor remained. Now my brother will pick apart and eat steamed blue
crabs... not exactly an easy food for the faint of heart. But he does still
draw the line somewhere on food... once I was eating sweetbreads and he
wasn't going to touch them with a ten foot pole. Speaking of sweetbreads,
for years and years I thought they were some kind of dessert pastry or
something! ;-)

"Wayne" > wrote in message
> I think most folks are somewhere inbetween Raymond and you.
>
> --
> Wayne in Phoenix

And that is probably a good place.

A 9 year old needs proper guidance, but should not be forced to eat
EVERYTHING. Most people will find a food or two that is repulsive to them
but is a real treat for others. If that is the case, they should be given
(allowed) alternatives.
Ed

Ted Campanelli wrote:
>

> For instance, they will not eat broccoli at supper. First, no desert or
> snacks. They get the broccoli for breakfast. If they eat it, THEN they
> can have a "normal" breakfast. They don't eat it, back in the fridge
> until lunch and we do it again, and again and again until they do eat
> it. I promise they will eat it by day 3 AND THEY WILL BE NO WORSE FOR
> IT (and they will not starve either). Of course you may be "a little
> worse for wear" with all the yelling and screaming, but that is another
> issue that is best handled in the "woodshed".

Over broccoli? Gads, hope you never have to deal with a real problem.

> There is no such thing as an unruly child or dog, just ineffectual
> parents/owners.

Unfortunately, 9 is plenty old enough to have manifestations of mental
illness, and I've known some that are constantly in trouble off their
meds, and really pretty good on them. I've also known dogs, particularly
those with abusive puppyhoods whose brains don't function in the social
way we expect of a dog. Also, some dogs are just plain dumb.
blacksalt
product of very strict parents who would never have dreamed of the above
technique
ObFood:
donut peaches are cheap here, right now, and so I finally popped for
some. They are less messy to eat! Since you can get your mouth around
the whole edge there is no territory to drip onto your chin!