Why is the farm lobby opposed to slaughter of these cows for human
consumption in the U.S.?

How many are there?
--
================================================== ====================
"My fellow Americans, I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia
forever. We begin bombing in five minutes," Ronald Reagan.
================================================== ====================

"The Wolf" > wrote in message
...
> Why is the farm lobby opposed to slaughter of these cows for human
> consumption in the U.S.?
>
> How many are there?

It's not the farmers who are against it. It's the animal rights activist.
The downer cows that can be eaten for human consumption are injured animals.
I checked with my dad (a dairy farmer), and animals that are down due to
illness cannot be eaten for human consumption.

Most of these downer cows are dairy animals that fall or get physically hurt
somehow. Rather than just put the cow down, the farmers try to recoup part
of the lost profit/animal worth by selling her for meat. Even taking
precautions, most farmers are going to have a cow get hurt really badly at
some point in time. As much as you'd like to try to save the animals, the
cost usually isn't justifiable. If you're trying to make ends meet or run a
business, you really can't justify spending five or six thousand dollars
trying to save an animal that's probably only worth 1,000-1,500 dollars,
perhaps maybe around 2,000-2,500 if it's a registered animal. Even if you
do put forth the money, there's always the chance that the surgery, etc
isn't going to work and the animal still won't be able to walk... It's just
really sad. My family has a dairy farm, and unfortuneatly, we have lost a
few cows over the years. It's absolutely heartbreaking to lose an animal
like that...

On 12/25/2003 3:31 PM, in article
, "DRB" >
opined:

>
> "The Wolf" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Why is the farm lobby opposed to slaughter of these cows for human
>> consumption in the U.S.?
>>
>> How many are there?
>
> It's not the farmers who are against it. It's the animal rights activist.

Those people are beyond the pale by any standard. Anyone belonging to peta
should have their mugs on one of Rummy's Iraqi playing cards.

> The downer cows that can be eaten for human consumption are injured animals.
> I checked with my dad (a dairy farmer), and animals that are down due to
> illness cannot be eaten for human consumption.

>
> Most of these downer cows are dairy animals that fall or get physically hurt
> somehow.

Thanks for the info, that makes sense. I knew their had to be more to it
than the *media* puts out.


Rather than just put the cow down, the farmers try to recoup part
> of the lost profit/animal worth by selling her for meat. Even taking
> precautions, most farmers are going to have a cow get hurt really badly at
> some point in time. As much as you'd like to try to save the animals, the
> cost usually isn't justifiable. If you're trying to make ends meet or run a
> business, you really can't justify spending five or six thousand dollars
> trying to save an animal that's probably only worth 1,000-1,500 dollars,
> perhaps maybe around 2,000-2,500 if it's a registered animal. Even if you
> do put forth the money, there's always the chance that the surgery, etc
> isn't going to work and the animal still won't be able to walk... It's just
> really sad. My family has a dairy farm, and unfortuneatly, we have lost a
> few cows over the years. It's absolutely heartbreaking to lose an animal
> like that...
>
>

--
=======================================
"Democrats **** me off," Eric Cartman.
=======================================

Gentlemen,

What horse shit these people are spewing!! I live in Yakima, Washington the
dairy this cow came from sent it to market SICK, the vet took samples to be
tested and they still sent it to a slaughter house in Moses Lake Washington,
split it up then sent parts to Centralia Washington. Then parts of the
processed meat was sent to Oregon.

This cow had SYMPTOMS, it was SICK. 73 percent of all SICK and injured cows
are butchered for human consumption! The only reason they are able to track
the cows lineage and history is that it is a dairy cow. Plan old beef
steers have no paper work.

To pass this off as a "Oh, I thought there was more to the story" is dumb.


The Wolf > wrote in message
...
> Why is the farm lobby opposed to slaughter of these cows for human
> consumption in the U.S.?
>
> How many are there?
> --
> ================================================== ====================
> "My fellow Americans, I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia
> forever. We begin bombing in five minutes," Ronald Reagan.
> ================================================== ====================
>




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:21:16 -0800, "Diggery Dew"
> wrote:

> Gentlemen,
>
> What horse shit these people are spewing!! I live in Yakima, Washington the
> dairy this cow came from sent it to market SICK, the vet took samples to be
> tested and they still sent it to a slaughter house in Moses Lake Washington,
> split it up then sent parts to Centralia Washington. Then parts of the
> processed meat was sent to Oregon.
>
> This cow had SYMPTOMS, it was SICK. 73 percent of all SICK and injured cows
> are butchered for human consumption! The only reason they are able to track
> the cows lineage and history is that it is a dairy cow. Plan old beef
> steers have no paper work.
>
> To pass this off as a "Oh, I thought there was more to the story" is dumb.
>

I'd like to know why they were feeding dairy cows grain
laden with animal protein.


Practice safe eating - always use condiments

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:21:16 -0800, "Diggery Dew"
> > wrote:
>
> > Gentlemen,
> >
> > What horse shit these people are spewing!! I live in Yakima,
Washington the
> > dairy this cow came from sent it to market SICK, the vet took samples
to be
> > tested and they still sent it to a slaughter house in Moses Lake
Washington,
> > split it up then sent parts to Centralia Washington. Then parts of the
> > processed meat was sent to Oregon.
> >
> > This cow had SYMPTOMS, it was SICK. 73 percent of all SICK and injured
cows
> > are butchered for human consumption! The only reason they are able to
track
> > the cows lineage and history is that it is a dairy cow. Plan old beef
> > steers have no paper work.
> >
> > To pass this off as a "Oh, I thought there was more to the story" is
dumb.
> >
>
> I'd like to know why they were feeding dairy cows grain
> laden with animal protein.
>
>

I'd like to know why the cow was sent off before the test results were
returned.
The government said the beef supply is safe.
I'm sure gonna miss my steaks.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> I'd like to know why they were feeding dairy cows grain
> laden with animal protein.
>

In general, lactating dairy cows, as any lactating animal, need a lot of
protein and high energy foodstuffs. Animal proteins are a good source for
the protein, but cow byproducts are not not not supposed to go into feed
for other cows in this country. Other animal proteins--fish meal, for
example, are safe.

I just wish people [people working in feed manufacturing] would do what they
are supposed to do and follow the rules. People sometimes just do not think
about what they're doing and the consequences. I suppose no one was
thinking about what if they made someone else's cows sick, or someone ate
that cow and got sick.

My family has a dairy farm. We would never intentionally feed our cows the
stuff that they're not supposed to have. We don't want them getting sick.
There is a certain amount of trust you put in the manufacturer that they're
doing what they're supposed to and making a safe product for your animals to
eat, and it's maddening when something like this happens.

On 12/26/2003 9:12 AM, in article
, "DRB" >
opined:

>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I'd like to know why they were feeding dairy cows grain
>> laden with animal protein.
>>
>
> In general, lactating dairy cows, as any lactating animal, need a lot of
> protein and high energy foodstuffs. Animal proteins are a good source for
> the protein, but cow byproducts are not not not supposed to go into feed
> for other cows in this country. Other animal proteins--fish meal, for
> example, are safe.
>
> I just wish people [people working in feed manufacturing] would do what they
> are supposed to do and follow the rules. People sometimes just do not think
> about what they're doing and the consequences. I suppose no one was
> thinking about what if they made someone else's cows sick, or someone ate
> that cow and got sick.
>
> My family has a dairy farm. We would never intentionally feed our cows the
> stuff that they're not supposed to have. We don't want them getting sick.
> There is a certain amount of trust you put in the manufacturer that they're
> doing what they're supposed to and making a safe product for your animals to
> eat, and it's maddening when something like this happens.
>
>

You seem like an ethical person. Do you know if a human has EVER contracted
this disease from eating beef? England, Canada, etc.? I know the government
goes WAY overboard with banning shellfish from certain waters. The only
people to die from tainted shellfish are alcoholics who's livers don't work
properly.

I never realized they render dogs and cats euthanized at the Humane Society
and road kill for cattle food.

It is kind of funny, you know you're in bad shape when Mexico refuses to
import your beef!

DRB wrote:
>
> "sf" > wrote in message

> > I'd like to know why they were feeding dairy cows grain
> > laden with animal protein.

> My family has a dairy farm. We would never intentionally feed our cows the
> stuff that they're not supposed to have. We don't want them getting sick.
> There is a certain amount of trust you put in the manufacturer that they're
> doing what they're supposed to and making a safe product for your animals to
> eat, and it's maddening when something like this happens.

Well, unless I'm out of date, as of this morning they were still
tracing the origin of the cow. If it came from Canada, it might
have been legally fed something banned here, at some point.

nancy

I think it is sick that they even use sick animals for slaughter! Hey
if they're sick I don't want them in my hamburger! I think WDC ought to
bombarded to get this changed NOW!

sf wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:21:16 -0800, "Diggery Dew"
> > wrote:
>
>
>> Gentlemen,
>>
>> What horse shit these people are spewing!! I live in Yakima, Washington the
>> dairy this cow came from sent it to market SICK, the vet took samples to be
>> tested and they still sent it to a slaughter house in Moses Lake Washington,
>> split it up then sent parts to Centralia Washington. Then parts of the
>> processed meat was sent to Oregon.
>>
>> This cow had SYMPTOMS, it was SICK. 73 percent of all SICK and injured cows
>> are butchered for human consumption! The only reason they are able to track
>> the cows lineage and history is that it is a dairy cow. Plan old beef
>> steers have no paper work.
>>
>> To pass this off as a "Oh, I thought there was more to the story" is dumb.
>>
>
>
> I'd like to know why they were feeding dairy cows grain
> laden with animal protein.
>
>
> Practice safe eating - always use condiments

Nancy Young wrote:

> Well, unless I'm out of date, as of this morning they were still
> tracing the origin of the cow. If it came from Canada, it might
> have been legally fed something banned here, at some point.

Yup, I just KNEW the Canadians were behind this somehow!
We should have ANNEXED CANADA a long time ago,
for the sake of our own HOMELAND SECURITY.

Gotta write me a letter to Prez. Bush, let him know we're
all behind him, if he chooses to do the right thing!

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:12:06 GMT, "DRB" >
wrote:

>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'd like to know why they were feeding dairy cows grain
> > laden with animal protein.
> >
>
> In general, lactating dairy cows, as any lactating animal, need a lot of
> protein and high energy foodstuffs. Animal proteins are a good source for
> the protein, but cow byproducts are not not not supposed to go into feed
> for other cows in this country. Other animal proteins--fish meal, for
> example, are safe.
>

I'm not concerned with what's considered "safe" in this
discussion (believe it or not). I'm not a farmer or a
scientist, but logic tells me that at the very least -
grazing animals aren't built to consume animal proteins. My
real question is "Why can't cattle be fed extra protein from
better suited, vegetative sources, like soya"?


Practice safe eating - always use condiments

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:12:06 GMT, "DRB" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > "sf" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I'd like to know why they were feeding dairy cows grain
> > > laden with animal protein.
> > >
> >
> > In general, lactating dairy cows, as any lactating animal, need a lot
of
> > protein and high energy foodstuffs. Animal proteins are a good source
for
> > the protein, but cow byproducts are not not not supposed to go into
feed
> > for other cows in this country. Other animal proteins--fish meal, for
> > example, are safe.
> >
>
> I'm not concerned with what's considered "safe" in this
> discussion (believe it or not). I'm not a farmer or a
> scientist, but logic tells me that at the very least -
> grazing animals aren't built to consume animal proteins. My
> real question is "Why can't cattle be fed extra protein from
> better suited, vegetative sources, like soya"?

You know, I really don't know. I'll ask my dad when he gets in tonight.

"The Wolf" > wrote in message
...
>
> You seem like an ethical person. Do you know if a human has EVER
contracted
> this disease from eating beef? England, Canada, etc.? I know the
government
> goes WAY overboard with banning shellfish from certain waters. The only
> people to die from tainted shellfish are alcoholics who's livers don't
work
> properly.

I know there were the people in England that have gotten CJD, but I'm not
sure if it came from what most of us American's would consider proper cuts
of beef that were processed like they were supposed to or if it came from
consuming the unmentionables or cuts that were cross-contaminated. It's
that whole culture thing where stuff that does get eat in one place isn't
touched in another. I think America tends to lean towards the puritanical.
I think I remember reading that there have only ever been 153 documented
cases of CJD world-wide total. I wonder if someone somewhere has gone back
and figured out how each person contracted it.

I also wonder if maybe some people are just more susceptible to it than
others. It seems like if the odds of contracting it were all that high,
there would have been more cases.

> It is kind of funny, you know you're in bad shape when Mexico refuses to
> import your beef!

That is true, but I still think I'd rather eat American meat than anything I
saw in Tijuana.... At this point, I think everyone is just being really
cautious... Perhaps overly. If you listen to the news these days, I figure
if you don't die from CJD, al-queda will get you, and if they don't get you,
you'll die in an earthquake. Maybe its time for us all to run around and
scream "we're doomed, we're doomed" <jk>.

sf > writes:

>My
>real question is "Why can't cattle be fed extra protein from
>better suited, vegetative sources, like soya"?

Maybe it's too expensive?

The products that ARE allowed in animal feeds, from other animal sources,
include:
€¢ Blood and blood products
€¢ Gelatin
€¢ Milk products
€¢ Pure pork protein products
€¢ Pure horse protein products
€¢ USDA inspected meat products, which have been cooked and offered for human
food and further heat processed for animal feed.

These are basically waste products from the meat/dairy industry. If vegetable
proteins were offered as animal feed, it would be a source with a higher cost.
That's my guess, anyway...

Connie
************************************************** ***
My mind is like a steel...um, whatchamacallit.

sf > wrote in
:

> On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:12:06 GMT, "DRB" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "sf" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > I'd like to know why they were feeding dairy cows grain
>> > laden with animal protein.
>> >
>>
>> In general, lactating dairy cows, as any lactating animal, need a
>> lot of protein and high energy foodstuffs. Animal proteins are a
>> good source for the protein, but cow byproducts are not not not
>> supposed to go into feed for other cows in this country. Other
>> animal proteins--fish meal, for example, are safe.
>>
>
> I'm not concerned with what's considered "safe" in this
> discussion (believe it or not). I'm not a farmer or a
> scientist, but logic tells me that at the very least -
> grazing animals aren't built to consume animal proteins. My
> real question is "Why can't cattle be fed extra protein from
> better suited, vegetative sources, like soya"?
>
>
> Practice safe eating - always use condiments
>

Price is the overlaying reason for all of this. Animal meal is cheaper,
"sick" cows are cheaper. Unless you want high beef costs cheap methods and
rules apply.

Animal meal is cheaper to make and buy than soy meal.

"Sick" Cows (within certain guidelines) can be bought by meat packers for
less therefore they can sell for less and make money.

Diary Cows aren't the usual source for human meat supplies. As these are
older animals (therefore tougher/stringier), and the dairy cow has a better
medical history (more visits from the vet) than a for beef bred cow;
Because of the rules and regulations for milk and cheese. These types of
animals are used in beef stock cubes, potted meats, pet foods and cosmetics
normally. More inspectors would help stop this kind of thing. But since
inspectors cost money it'll never happen...

It could have been worse...the farmer could have just shot and burried the
cow....which would have hidden the problem longer allowing it to spread
more.

--
And the beet goes on! (or under)
-me just a while ago

"Coas****cher" > wrote in message
...
> I think it is sick that they even use sick animals for slaughter! Hey
> if they're sick I don't want them in my hamburger! I think WDC ought to
> bombarded to get this changed NOW!

They can slaughter sick cows, but meat from the sick cows is not supposed to
go into the human food chain. Meat from a physically injured animals (Ie.
the cow has broken it's leg, but does not have a pathological disease) can
be eaten.

I think there is a lot of misinformation going around out there, and this
particular piece is one of the biggest ones. Yes, you can eat meat from an
injured animal, so long as the animal is not sick in any other way at all.
(The actualy injured area, ie the leg that's actually broken, is supposed to
be discarded). If the cow is sick with a disease, it's not supposed to be
used for human consumption...

This Diggery Dew is a fear monger, IMO. This person may live in the town
that the cow came from, but I'm sure there are probably a lot of rumors
spreading around there too. This person probably heard a rumor and got all
worked up over it and just had to share. The whole thing about the vet
taking samples, then they sent the cow off? The animal has to be dead
already to test for bse--they use brain and spinal cord samples. You start
taking parts of a living beings brain and spinal cord, they're probably not
going to recover from that. The cow has to be *alive* to sell it at
market... so, they couldn't have killed the cow, taken the samples, and then
sent the cow off to be sold for human consumption.

"ConnieG999" > wrote in message
...
> sf > writes:
>
> >My
> >real question is "Why can't cattle be fed extra protein from
> >better suited, vegetative sources, like soya"?
>
> Maybe it's too expensive?
>
> The products that ARE allowed in animal feeds, from other animal sources,
> include:
> . Blood and blood products
> . Gelatin
> . Milk products
> . Pure pork protein products
> . Pure horse protein products
> . USDA inspected meat products, which have been cooked and offered for
human
> food and further heat processed for animal feed.
>
> These are basically waste products from the meat/dairy industry. If
vegetable
> proteins were offered as animal feed, it would be a source with a higher
cost.
> That's my guess, anyway...
>

You're probably right. Although, on milk proteins, it seems like they'd be
good source of protein from animals since they were designed by nature to
nurish the young of that species.

Just as an aside, some another common by product in animal feed is cookie
meal... Litterally, pulvarized cookie bits left from the factories. Cows
love sweet stuff and go nuts over the stuff...

"hahabogus" > wrote in message
...
> Diary Cows aren't the usual source for human meat supplies. As these are
> older animals (therefore tougher/stringier), and the dairy cow has a
better
> medical history (more visits from the vet) than a for beef bred cow;
> Because of the rules and regulations for milk and cheese. These types of
> animals are used in beef stock cubes, potted meats, pet foods and
cosmetics
> normally. More inspectors would help stop this kind of thing. But since
> inspectors cost money it'll never happen...

And a lot of the dairy cows that do make it to the human meat supplies are
not sick at all. They're cows that get sold because they aren't producing
enough milk to pay for their feed or haven't been able to be bred back
(where talking like 9-10 attempts to bred at least and no pregnancy)...
Sad, yes, but part of the economics...

> It could have been worse...the farmer could have just shot and burried the
> cow....which would have hidden the problem longer allowing it to spread
> more.


God, I hope that when they figure out who put the cow products into the cow
feed, that a.) they FDA, etc. slaps huge fines and criminal penalties, and
that the owners of the sick cow sue.

The Wolf > wrote in message
...
> Why is the farm lobby opposed to slaughter of these cows for human
> consumption in the U.S.?
>
> How many are there?
> --
> ================================================== ====================
> "My fellow Americans, I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia
> forever. We begin bombing in five minutes," Ronald Reagan.
> ================================================== ====================
>


I urge you to view this link.

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRe...d=104-12242003

It may not be time to panic but it is certainly time to make changes. In
fact the farmers and feed lot owners involved in this are reputable people.
People need to realize this parctice of adulterating feed is a practice of
the industry.

Just like ecoli this was a time bomb waiting to go off. We are no safer
today from ecoli except that we have been made well aware to cook hamburger
thouroghly.

The political and economic disaster this will cause is far more costly than
having done business correctly in the first place.

There are about 100 million cows in the U.S., one third of which are
slaughtered each year. USDA Testing on these cows amount ot one tenth of 1
percent.




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

"DRB" > wrote in message
...
snip

> I think there is a lot of misinformation going around out there, and this
> particular piece is one of the biggest ones. Yes, you can eat meat from
an
> injured animal, so long as the animal is not sick in any other way at all.
> (The actualy injured area, ie the leg that's actually broken, is supposed
to
> be discarded). If the cow is sick with a disease, it's not supposed to be
> used for human consumption...
>
> This Diggery Dew is a fear monger, IMO. This person may live in the town
> that the cow came from, but I'm sure there are probably a lot of rumors
> spreading around there too. This person probably heard a rumor and got
all
> worked up over it and just had to share. The whole thing about the vet
> taking samples, then they sent the cow off? The animal has to be dead
> already to test for bse--they use brain and spinal cord samples. You
start
> taking parts of a living beings brain and spinal cord, they're probably
not
> going to recover from that. The cow has to be *alive* to sell it at
> market... so, they couldn't have killed the cow, taken the samples, and
then
> sent the cow off to be sold for human consumption.
>
Here is the link to the interview with the slaughter house owner.
http://tinyurl.com/2ybqo

There are a lot of weak links in the system.

I don't know why letting out factual information is fear mongoring.

Unless of course you would consider a person with a vested (family farm)
interest as supporting a cover-up.

You only need to read the news to find out this cow was sent to market after
samples
were taken and before the suspected results verified. I dont think that is
a rumor.


DRB > wrote in message
...
>
> "Coas****cher" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I think it is sick that they even use sick animals for slaughter! Hey
> > if they're sick I don't want them in my hamburger! I think WDC ought to
> > bombarded to get this changed NOW!
>
> They can slaughter sick cows, but meat from the sick cows is not supposed
to
> go into the human food chain. Meat from a physically injured animals (Ie.
> the cow has broken it's leg, but does not have a pathological disease) can
> be eaten.
>
> I think there is a lot of misinformation going around out there, and this
> particular piece is one of the biggest ones. Yes, you can eat meat from
an
> injured animal, so long as the animal is not sick in any other way at all.
> (The actualy injured area, ie the leg that's actually broken, is supposed
to
> be discarded). If the cow is sick with a disease, it's not supposed to be
> used for human consumption...
>
> This Diggery Dew is a fear monger, IMO. This person may live in the town
> that the cow came from, but I'm sure there are probably a lot of rumors
> spreading around there too. This person probably heard a rumor and got
all
> worked up over it and just had to share. The whole thing about the vet
> taking samples, then they sent the cow off? The animal has to be dead
> already to test for bse--they use brain and spinal cord samples. You
start
> taking parts of a living beings brain and spinal cord, they're probably
not
> going to recover from that. The cow has to be *alive* to sell it at
> market... so, they couldn't have killed the cow, taken the samples, and
then
> sent the cow off to be sold for human consumption.
>
>




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Mark Thorson wrote:
>
> Nancy Young wrote:
>
> > Well, unless I'm out of date, as of this morning they were still
> > tracing the origin of the cow. If it came from Canada, it might
> > have been legally fed something banned here, at some point.
>
> Yup, I just KNEW the Canadians were behind this somehow!

You know how they are.

At any rate, before everyone gets in an uproar, my point was, let's
find out how this cow became infected. Where did it become infected.
Whacky stuff like that.

nancy

On 12/26/2003 11:36 AM, in article
, "DRB" >
opined:

>
> "The Wolf" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> You seem like an ethical person. Do you know if a human has EVER
> contracted
>> this disease from eating beef? England, Canada, etc.? I know the
> government
>> goes WAY overboard with banning shellfish from certain waters. The only
>> people to die from tainted shellfish are alcoholics who's livers don't
> work
>> properly.
>
> I know there were the people in England that have gotten CJD, but I'm not
> sure if it came from what most of us American's would consider proper cuts
> of beef that were processed like they were supposed to or if it came from
> consuming the unmentionables or cuts that were cross-contaminated. It's
> that whole culture thing where stuff that does get eat in one place isn't
> touched in another. I think America tends to lean towards the puritanical.
> I think I remember reading that there have only ever been 153 documented
> cases of CJD world-wide total. I wonder if someone somewhere has gone back
> and figured out how each person contracted it.
>
> I also wonder if maybe some people are just more susceptible to it than
> others. It seems like if the odds of contracting it were all that high,
> there would have been more cases.
>
>> It is kind of funny, you know you're in bad shape when Mexico refuses to
>> import your beef!
>
> That is true, but I still think I'd rather eat American meat than anything I
> saw in Tijuana....

I said that tongue-in-cheek.

Tijuana is the filthiest place I've ever said except the Philippines.





At this point, I think everyone is just being really
> cautious... Perhaps overly. If you listen to the news these days, I figure
> if you don't die from CJD, al-queda will get you, and if they don't get you,
> you'll die in an earthquake. Maybe its time for us all to run around and
> scream "we're doomed, we're doomed" <jk>.
>
>

--
=======================================
Whiskey for my men, beer for my horses.
=======================================

"The Wolf" > wrote in message
...
> Why is the farm lobby opposed to slaughter of these cows for human
> consumption in the U.S.?
>
> How many are there?

There aren't usually that many. It looks good on paper, that's mostly why
they're opposed to it, as nobody involved has yet said with 100% accuracy
just what it is that causes or spreads Mad Cow.

The basic methodology behind the opposition, is that slaughtering a healthy
and "robust" cow will produce healthy meat product, while a "downer cow" is
often sickly or otherwise unhealthy. In reality, I doubt your average
farmer would attempt to present a diseased cow for slaughter, as even the
thought might make people question his meat's health next time.

"Chris" > wrote in message
. com...
> The basic methodology behind the opposition, is that slaughtering a
healthy
> and "robust" cow will produce healthy meat product, while a "downer cow"
is
> often sickly or otherwise unhealthy. In reality, I doubt your average
> farmer would attempt to present a diseased cow for slaughter, as even the
> thought might make people question his meat's health next time.
>
The average farmer is no different than any other 'average' business man.
You should have learned within the last 18 months that where money in the
pocket is concerned we cannot trust anyone to do the right thing. That's
cynical, I know. But I find your logic just far too naive. You surely don't
buy into all that prepared swill that our government began regurgitating
within hours of the discovery? About how the system works because we found
the animal? Hello?--where are the rest of the animals--that one didn't get
the special feed all by itself. I've got to stop here because I feel a real
rant coming on. My mind is still somewhat open on the safety of beef; a lot
will depend on what I hear in the coming weeks.
Janet

hahabogus wrote:
>
> sf > wrote in
> :
>
> > On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:12:06 GMT, "DRB" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> "sf" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > I'd like to know why they were feeding dairy cows grain
> >> > laden with animal protein.
> >> >
> >>
> >> In general, lactating dairy cows, as any lactating animal, need a
> >> lot of protein and high energy foodstuffs. Animal proteins are a
> >> good source for the protein, but cow byproducts are not not not
> >> supposed to go into feed for other cows in this country. Other
> >> animal proteins--fish meal, for example, are safe.
> >>
> >
> > I'm not concerned with what's considered "safe" in this
> > discussion (believe it or not). I'm not a farmer or a
> > scientist, but logic tells me that at the very least -
> > grazing animals aren't built to consume animal proteins. My
> > real question is "Why can't cattle be fed extra protein from
> > better suited, vegetative sources, like soya"?
> >
> >
> > Practice safe eating - always use condiments
> >
>
> Price is the overlaying reason for all of this. Animal meal is cheaper,
> "sick" cows are cheaper. Unless you want high beef costs cheap methods and
> rules apply.
>
> Animal meal is cheaper to make and buy than soy meal.
>
> "Sick" Cows (within certain guidelines) can be bought by meat packers for
> less therefore they can sell for less and make money.
>
> Diary Cows aren't the usual source for human meat supplies. As these are
> older animals (therefore tougher/stringier), and the dairy cow has a better
> medical history (more visits from the vet) than a for beef bred cow;
> Because of the rules and regulations for milk and cheese. These types of
> animals are used in beef stock cubes, potted meats, pet foods and cosmetics
> normally. More inspectors would help stop this kind of thing. But since
> inspectors cost money it'll never happen...
>
> It could have been worse...the farmer could have just shot and burried the
> cow....which would have hidden the problem longer allowing it to spread
> more.
>
> --
> And the beet goes on! (or under)
> -me just a while ago

And there is proof that other farmers haven't already been doing this?

In article >,
says...
> On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:21:16 -0800, "Diggery Dew"
> > wrote:
>
> > Gentlemen,
> >
> > What horse shit these people are spewing!! I live in Yakima, Washington the
> > dairy this cow came from sent it to market SICK, the vet took samples to be
> > tested and they still sent it to a slaughter house in Moses Lake Washington,
> > split it up then sent parts to Centralia Washington. Then parts of the
> > processed meat was sent to Oregon.
> >
> > This cow had SYMPTOMS, it was SICK. 73 percent of all SICK and injured cows
> > are butchered for human consumption! The only reason they are able to track
> > the cows lineage and history is that it is a dairy cow. Plan old beef
> > steers have no paper work.
> >
> > To pass this off as a "Oh, I thought there was more to the story" is dumb.
> >
>
> I'd like to know why they were feeding dairy cows grain
> laden with animal protein.
>
>
> Practice safe eating - always use condiments

Doesn't the protein somehow get transformed into muscle and other
tissue?

On 12/26/2003 4:10 PM, in article , "Janet
Bostwick" > opined:


> You should have learned within the last 18 months that where money in the
> pocket is concerned we cannot trust anyone to do the right thing.


Don't speak in code.......*if* you have something to say show some balls and
say it.

Nancy Young wrote:

> Mark Thorson wrote:
>
>>Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Well, unless I'm out of date, as of this morning they were still
>>>tracing the origin of the cow. If it came from Canada, it might
>>>have been legally fed something banned here, at some point.
>>
>>Yup, I just KNEW the Canadians were behind this somehow!
>
>
> You know how they are.
>
> At any rate, before everyone gets in an uproar, my point was, let's
> find out how this cow became infected. Where did it become infected.
> Whacky stuff like that.
>
> nancy
People have joked about Europeans being able to trace the lineage of the
beef, pork and poultry they buy in the supermarket. Now we see the real
reason it is done, and has been done for several years.

Ever wonder why we test 30,000 cows out of 300,000,000, and claim that
our beef is the safest in the world?

Testing is a great idea Nancy. But you ever wonder why the results of
tests taking in the United States are back AFTER the cow was slaughered
and shipped all over the Norhtwest? Other countries can test virtually
all their beef, with results completed before slaughter is finished.
--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener

"The Wolf" > wrote in message
...
> On 12/26/2003 4:10 PM, in article ,
"Janet
> Bostwick" > opined:
>
>
> > You should have learned within the last 18 months that where money in
the
> > pocket is concerned we cannot trust anyone to do the right thing.
>
>
> Don't speak in code.......*if* you have something to say show some balls
and
> say it.
>
Well, I was thinking in terms of the Enron and mutual funds and clones
scandals and how those businessmen lined their pockets to the detriment of
millions. But now you mention it, in the broader scope, it makes a fine
political statement.
Janet

On 12/26/2003 7:43 PM, in article
, "alzelt"
> opined:

>
>
> Nancy Young wrote:
>
>> Mark Thorson wrote:
>>
>>> Nancy Young wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Well, unless I'm out of date, as of this morning they were still
>>>> tracing the origin of the cow. If it came from Canada, it might
>>>> have been legally fed something banned here, at some point.
>>>
>>> Yup, I just KNEW the Canadians were behind this somehow!
>>
>>
>> You know how they are.
>>
>> At any rate, before everyone gets in an uproar, my point was, let's
>> find out how this cow became infected. Where did it become infected.
>> Whacky stuff like that.
>>
>> nancy
> People have joked about Europeans being able to trace the lineage of the
> beef, pork and poultry they buy in the supermarket. Now we see the real
> reason it is done, and has been done for several years.
>
> Ever wonder why we test 30,000 cows out of 300,000,000, and claim that
> our beef is the safest in the world?
>
> Testing is a great idea Nancy. But you ever wonder why the results of
> tests taking in the United States are back AFTER the cow was slaughered
> and shipped all over the Norhtwest? Other countries can test virtually
> all their beef, with results completed before slaughter is finished.

*Other* countries aren't trying to feed 300,000,000 people.

--
================================================== =========================
"The first requisite of a good citizen in this Republic of ours is that he
shall be able and willing to pull his weight. That he shall not be a mere
passenger," Theodore Roosevelt.
================================================== =========================

On 12/26/2003 8:22 PM, in article , "Janet
Bostwick" > opined:

>
> "The Wolf" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 12/26/2003 4:10 PM, in article ,
> "Janet
>> Bostwick" > opined:
>>
>>
>>> You should have learned within the last 18 months that where money in
> the
>>> pocket is concerned we cannot trust anyone to do the right thing.
>>
>>
>> Don't speak in code.......*if* you have something to say show some balls
> and
>> say it.
>>
> Well, I was thinking in terms of the Enron and mutual funds and clones
> scandals and how those businessmen lined their pockets to the detriment of
> millions. But now you mention it, in the broader scope, it makes a fine
> political statement.
> Janet
>
>
You and I would've never heard of Enron if Cheney didn't work for them.

Just come out and say you hate Bush. I hate Clinton and am proud of it.

If he wasn't preoccupied with getting his knob polished by fat little kids
and didn't gut the military and CIA maybe we would still have a World Trade
Center. *That* is Bubba's legacy.........
--
================================================== =========
"Grand pappy told my pappy back in my time son, a man had
To answer For the wicked that he'd done."
================================================== =========

alzelt > wrote in
:

>
>
> Nancy Young wrote:
>
>> Mark Thorson wrote:
>>
>>>Nancy Young wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Well, unless I'm out of date, as of this morning they were still
>>>>tracing the origin of the cow. If it came from Canada, it might
>>>>have been legally fed something banned here, at some point.
>>>
>>>Yup, I just KNEW the Canadians were behind this somehow!
>>
>>
>> You know how they are.
>>
>> At any rate, before everyone gets in an uproar, my point was, let's
>> find out how this cow became infected. Where did it become infected.
>> Whacky stuff like that.
>>
>> nancy
> People have joked about Europeans being able to trace the lineage of the
> beef, pork and poultry they buy in the supermarket. Now we see the real
> reason it is done, and has been done for several years.
>
> Ever wonder why we test 30,000 cows out of 300,000,000, and claim that
> our beef is the safest in the world?
>
> Testing is a great idea Nancy. But you ever wonder why the results of
> tests taking in the United States are back AFTER the cow was slaughered
> and shipped all over the Norhtwest? Other countries can test virtually
> all their beef, with results completed before slaughter is finished.

In other words you get what you pay for... Cheap Beef. Not necessarily a
good thing.

--
And the beet goes on! (or under)
-me just a while ago

In article >,
says...

> You and I would've never heard of Enron if Cheney didn't work for them.

Well - we're heard of Halliburton and we KNOW Cheney draws a check from
them.

> Just come out and say you hate Bush. I hate Clinton and am proud of it.
>
> If he wasn't preoccupied with getting his knob polished by fat little kids
> and didn't gut the military and CIA maybe we would still have a World Trade
> Center. *That* is Bubba's legacy.........

You just hate the fact that Clinton got his dick sucked. That he was
probably more sexually attractive than your pasty white ass.

Sorry I had to do that, but you set yourself up for it.

I find both parties to be equally loathsome regardless of the candidates
they field. Why? Because big money (Aka large corporate donations in
exchange for access to power.) contributes to both.

It's time for a third, fourth, even fifth major party in the United
States along with some major reform codified in a constitutional
amendment.

Read some things by Martin Gross or Arianna Huffington to get an idea
what I'm talking about here.

the standard test used to detect BSE in cows is to cut off its head and
study the brain cells. Unfortunately, once an animal is subjected to the
test, it's shelf life is greatly reduced.....

Living deep in the heart of Canadian cattle country, and having family and
friends that raise them, my heart goes out to the US ranchers... we've seen
what ignorance, overreaction and press hype can do to the cattle
industry.....

Bob


"Jeff Davis" > wrote in message
...
>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:21:16 -0800, "Diggery Dew"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Gentlemen,
> > >
> > > What horse shit these people are spewing!! I live in Yakima,
> Washington the
> > > dairy this cow came from sent it to market SICK, the vet took samples
> to be
> > > tested and they still sent it to a slaughter house in Moses Lake
> Washington,
> > > split it up then sent parts to Centralia Washington. Then parts of
the
> > > processed meat was sent to Oregon.
> > >
> > > This cow had SYMPTOMS, it was SICK. 73 percent of all SICK and
injured
> cows
> > > are butchered for human consumption! The only reason they are able
to
> track
> > > the cows lineage and history is that it is a dairy cow. Plan old
beef
> > > steers have no paper work.
> > >
> > > To pass this off as a "Oh, I thought there was more to the story" is
> dumb.
> > >
> >
> > I'd like to know why they were feeding dairy cows grain
> > laden with animal protein.
> >
> >
>
> I'd like to know why the cow was sent off before the test results were
> returned.
> The government said the beef supply is safe.
> I'm sure gonna miss my steaks.
>
>
>

We'll wait and see if it actually came from Canada... I'm betting its just a
bunch of hype to be honest. Unfortunately, the USA has a tough time finding
accountability at home and likes to find others to blame... Of course, if
the US industry insisted on keeping track of animals better, they'd be able
to say with some certainty where the animal came from.

There is nothing allowed in Canadian feed that can cause BSE, just like US
feed. However, due to whatever circumstances, I'm sure feed in both
countries gets "tainted" in the manufacturing process, blame the feed
manufacturers if you like, I'd consider them open game.....



"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> DRB wrote:
> >
> > "sf" > wrote in message
>
> > > I'd like to know why they were feeding dairy cows grain
> > > laden with animal protein.
>
> > My family has a dairy farm. We would never intentionally feed our cows
the
> > stuff that they're not supposed to have. We don't want them getting
sick.
> > There is a certain amount of trust you put in the manufacturer that
they're
> > doing what they're supposed to and making a safe product for your
animals to
> > eat, and it's maddening when something like this happens.
>
> Well, unless I'm out of date, as of this morning they were still
> tracing the origin of the cow. If it came from Canada, it might
> have been legally fed something banned here, at some point.
>
> nancy

I ran across this abstract the other day..

1: Genome. 2003 Dec;46(6):1005-1009.

Prion protein gene sequence of Canada's first non-imported case of bovine
spongiform encephalopathy (BSE).

Coulthart MB, Mogk R, Rancourt JM, Godal DL, Czub S.

In May 2003, Canada became the 22nd country outside of the United Kingdom to
report a case of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) in an animal not
known
to be imported from a country with cattle previously affected by this fatal,
transmissible prion disease. Despite extensive testing of thousands of other
animals that may have been exposed to contaminated feed at the same time as
the
affected animal, no evidence has been found for other infections. This
finding
leaves room for conjectures that the single confirmed case arose
spontaneously,
perhaps (by analogy with human Creutzfeldt&ndash;Jakob disease) as a result
of a
somatic protein misfolding event or a novel germline mutation. Here we
present
DNA sequence data from the affected animal's prion protein coding sequence
that
argue definitively against the latter hypothesis.

PMID: 14663519 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]



Bob Westcott wrote:
> We'll wait and see if it actually came from Canada... I'm betting its
> just a bunch of hype to be honest. Unfortunately, the USA has a
> tough time finding accountability at home and likes to find others to
> blame... Of course, if the US industry insisted on keeping track of
> animals better, they'd be able to say with some certainty where the
> animal came from.
>
> There is nothing allowed in Canadian feed that can cause BSE, just
> like US feed. However, due to whatever circumstances, I'm sure feed
> in both countries gets "tainted" in the manufacturing process, blame
> the feed manufacturers if you like, I'd consider them open game.....
>
>
>
> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message
> ...
>> DRB wrote:
>>>
>>> "sf" > wrote in message
>>
>>>> I'd like to know why they were feeding dairy cows grain
>>>> laden with animal protein.
>>
>>> My family has a dairy farm. We would never intentionally feed our
>>> cows the stuff that they're not supposed to have. We don't want
>>> them getting sick. There is a certain amount of trust you put in
>>> the manufacturer that they're doing what they're supposed to and
>>> making a safe product for your animals to eat, and it's maddening
>>> when something like this happens.
>>
>> Well, unless I'm out of date, as of this morning they were still
>> tracing the origin of the cow. If it came from Canada, it might
>> have been legally fed something banned here, at some point.
>>
>> nancy

hahabogus > wrote:

> In other words you get what you pay for... Cheap Beef. Not necessarily a
> good thing.

This issue got me to thinking about kosher beef. Since
the kosher tradition bans the use of any part of any cow
for human consumption if the animal is found to be sick
in any way, is kosher beef less likely to harbor Mad
Cow Disease than non-kosher beef?

wrote in :

> hahabogus > wrote:
>
>> In other words you get what you pay for... Cheap Beef. Not
>> necessarily a good thing.
>
> This issue got me to thinking about kosher beef. Since
> the kosher tradition bans the use of any part of any cow
> for human consumption if the animal is found to be sick
> in any way, is kosher beef less likely to harbor Mad
> Cow Disease than non-kosher beef?
>

Really good question. I wonder if the kashering process is preceded by or
includes a rigorous health inspection. I have often bought Kosher meats
just because the quality has often seemed better.

Wayne