We recently bought a 12" All-Clad fry pan. Nice size for sauteeing
chicken, chops, etc. But keeping the thing clean is a challenge. Globs
of hardened oil adhere to the stainless steel liner. We have tried
plastic scrubbers (Dobie), overnight soaking, Bar Keeper's Friend, etc.
Nothing seems to touch these stains.

So far, I have resisted the impulse to scour with abrasive pads and
cleaners. They are likely to scratch the ss surface, making it more
likely that food will stick, and stains will adhere even worse.

Someone at Williams-Sonoma suggested EZ-Off oven cleaner. Has anyone
tried that? Any other ideas?

Or is it best to just ignore the oil buildup? On a cast iron pan, we
would probably call it "seasoning". But on the shiny ss, it looks like
schmutz.

--
Julian Vrieslander

I have a stainless steel pressure cooker that I used Easy Off oven cleaner
on when I burned some rice. That stuff was welded to the pan. Easy Off
worked like a charm, sprayed it on and set it outside in the sun for a half
hour, and then put it in a dishwasher on the high heat cycle with a dab of
dish soap. Good as new.

Sid

"Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
message
...
> Someone at Williams-Sonoma suggested EZ-Off oven cleaner. Has anyone
> tried that? Any other ideas?

in article
,
Julian Vrieslander at wrote on
12/27/03 11:59 PM:

> We recently bought a 12" All-Clad fry pan. Nice size for sauteeing
> chicken, chops, etc. But keeping the thing clean is a challenge. Globs
> of hardened oil adhere to the stainless steel liner. We have tried
> plastic scrubbers (Dobie), overnight soaking, Bar Keeper's Friend, etc.
> Nothing seems to touch these stains.
>
> So far, I have resisted the impulse to scour with abrasive pads and
> cleaners. They are likely to scratch the ss surface, making it more
> likely that food will stick, and stains will adhere even worse.
>
> Someone at Williams-Sonoma suggested EZ-Off oven cleaner. Has anyone
> tried that? Any other ideas?
>
> Or is it best to just ignore the oil buildup? On a cast iron pan, we
> would probably call it "seasoning". But on the shiny ss, it looks like
> schmutz.

scrubbing stainless may scratch the surface, but that has absolutely no
bearing on what sticks to it or not. Where did you hear that scratching
stainless steel would make it more likely food will stick?

Stainless Steel is not non-stick.
And nothing you can do will change that.
You cannot season stainless steel. And it should be clean each time you use
it. One of the advantages of stainless is that it cleans up beautifully and
you don't have to be afraid to scrub it, like with non-stick coatings or
anodized aluminum.

It's the cooking technique that determines whether the food sticks to
stainless or not. Never add oil to a cold pan, only a pre-heated one.
That's a good place to start.

Get yourself a good grease cutting detergent, as a first step.
I use Ajax and am amazed at its grease cutting properties.
I haven't been able to cook anything that Lemon Ajax and a blue ScotchBrite
sponge can't clean!

Try soaking it for a couple hours in hot, hot water with a squirt of Ajax
dish detergent. Then go at it with the blue ScotchBrite sponge, with more
detergent applied to the sponge. Give it some elbow grease, it should come
clean. If that doesn't work, SOS or Brillo should finish the job.

Seriously, I have had some pretty greasy, icky messes in stainless steel
pans, and this method leaves them spotlessly, shiny clean.

One caveat, though: Scratches on cookware is a sign that they are being used
as they were intended. Pots are tools, meant to be cooked in, washed,
scrubbed, etc. I just don't understand people who are afraid to use and
scrub their stainless steel pots. Funny how it's always an All-Clad pan
they are afraid to scrub. Why is that?????

Sheryl Rosen wrote:
<vbsnip>
> Funny how it's always an All-Clad pan
> they are afraid to scrub. Why is that?????

I scrub the heck out of mine, and the SO really gets mean with it. Being
raised in a very poor family, he had no silver in his childhood, and
scrubbed the heck out of baby's silver cup yesterday. Ugh. Anyone know
how to get brillo marks out of silver?
TIA
blacksalt

Julian Vrieslander > wrote:
>Or is it best to just ignore the oil buildup? On a cast iron pan, we
>would probably call it "seasoning". But on the shiny ss, it looks like
>schmutz.

The brown crust is polymerized oil.

I don't get it on the inside surfaces, but it's prevalent
on the outside. You can leave it on for that "professional
kitchen" look, or take it off to return the pans to just-like-
brand-new.

Use steel wool, liquid dish soap, (SOS pads, if you have
them), moderately hot water, and elbow grease. It's less
work than it seems it might be.

I have yet to scratch the shiny surfaces of my All-Clad
with one.

--Blair
"Knock steel."

In article >,
Blair P. Houghton > wrote:

> Use steel wool, liquid dish soap, (SOS pads, if you have
> them), moderately hot water, and elbow grease. It's less
> work than it seems it might be.
>
> I have yet to scratch the shiny surfaces of my All-Clad
> with one.

I have used 3M ScotchBrite pads, steel wool, and SS scrubbers on AllClad
pots before. These pads make very obvious scratches in the finish. I
don't know why you don't experience this. Perhaps AllClad changed their
SS alloy formulation.


In article >,
Sheryl Rosen > wrote:

> scrubbing stainless may scratch the surface, but that has absolutely no
> bearing on what sticks to it or not. Where did you hear that scratching
> stainless steel would make it more likely food will stick?

I was simply assuming that a textured or scratched surface (of any
material) is more likely to provide a foothold for adhering contaminants
than a surface that is polished smooth. Craftsworkers often sand mating
surfaces before applying glue or cement, for this very reason.

> It's the cooking technique that determines whether the food sticks to
> stainless or not. Never add oil to a cold pan, only a pre-heated one.

I have heard this, and I usually try to do it, but I don't understand
why it would make a difference.

> Get yourself a good grease cutting detergent, as a first step.
> I use Ajax and am amazed at its grease cutting properties.
> I haven't been able to cook anything that Lemon Ajax and a blue ScotchBrite
> sponge can't clean!
>
> Try soaking it for a couple hours in hot, hot water with a squirt of Ajax
> dish detergent. Then go at it with the blue ScotchBrite sponge, with more
> detergent applied to the sponge. Give it some elbow grease, it should come
> clean. If that doesn't work, SOS or Brillo should finish the job.

I tried a hot soak with Dawn liquid (which is also supposed to be very
good at grease cutting) and then worked on the pan vigorously with a SS
scrubber pad. Those cooked-on spots just laughed at me.

> One caveat, though: Scratches on cookware is a sign that they are being used
> as they were intended. Pots are tools, meant to be cooked in, washed,
> scrubbed, etc. I just don't understand people who are afraid to use and
> scrub their stainless steel pots. Funny how it's always an All-Clad pan
> they are afraid to scrub. Why is that?????

Maybe because they are so expensive, and we are afraid to ruin them. On
AllClads, that SS liner layer is actually quite thin. I wouldn't be
surprised if a few years of serious scrubbing with an abrasive pad could
wear through the liner.

We also have a couple of ScanPan frypans. These are advertised as
having a high-tech ceramic coating that is harder than steel and
virtually impossible to damage. But we see the coatings on our ScanPans
wear off, or separate from the aluminum substrate, etc. (and, yes, we
have already had pans replaced under warranty).

None of these things last forever, except maybe the simple cast iron
stuff.

--
Julian Vrieslander

Julian Vrieslander wrote:

> Someone at Williams-Sonoma suggested EZ-Off oven cleaner. Has anyone
> tried that? Any other ideas?

I've used EZ-Off for burnt-on crud in my cheap, 15-year-old Revereware
(on the stainless-steel interior, not on the copper bottom). Worked
great. I plan to try it on some old baking sheets that look kinda
cruddy despite serious scouring.

> writes:
>
>I've used EZ-Off for burnt-on crud. I plan to try it on some old
>baking sheets that look kinda cruddy despite serious scouring.

Metal bakeware should never be scoured, the darker it gets the better it bakes.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

Julian Vrieslander wrote:
>
> We recently bought a 12" All-Clad fry pan. Nice size for sauteeing
> chicken, chops, etc. But keeping the thing clean is a challenge. Globs
> of hardened oil adhere to the stainless steel liner. We have tried
> plastic scrubbers (Dobie), overnight soaking, Bar Keeper's Friend, etc.
> Nothing seems to touch these stains.

I feel like a shill for Dawn, but I've read good things about that
new Dawn Power Dissolver.

nancy

In article >, kalanamak
> wrote:

> Sheryl Rosen wrote:
> <vbsnip>
> > Funny how it's always an All-Clad pan
> > they are afraid to scrub. Why is that?????
>
> I scrub the heck out of mine, and the SO really gets mean with it. Being
> raised in a very poor family, he had no silver in his childhood, and
> scrubbed the heck out of baby's silver cup yesterday. Ugh. Anyone know
> how to get brillo marks out of silver?
> TIA
> blacksalt

No, but when it gets really, really bad, consider having it replated. I
did that once with a big serving spoon that went back to my childhood
days. Cost me maybe $18 and I did it for sentimental reasons. I'm
glad I did. JCPenney ran the special; they sent it out for replating.
--
-Barb
12-23-03: Tourtiere pictures and recipe have been
added to my site: <www.jamlady.eboard.com>
"If you're ever in a jam, here I am."

Melba's Jammin' > wrote in
:

> In article >, kalanamak
> > wrote:
>
>> Sheryl Rosen wrote:
>> <vbsnip>
>> > Funny how it's always an All-Clad pan
>> > they are afraid to scrub. Why is that?????
>>
>> I scrub the heck out of mine, and the SO really gets mean with it.
>> Being raised in a very poor family, he had no silver in his
>> childhood, and scrubbed the heck out of baby's silver cup yesterday.
>> Ugh. Anyone know how to get brillo marks out of silver?
>> TIA
>> blacksalt
>
> No, but when it gets really, really bad, consider having it replated.
> I did that once with a big serving spoon that went back to my
> childhood days. Cost me maybe $18 and I did it for sentimental
> reasons. I'm glad I did. JCPenney ran the special; they sent it out
> for replating.

As Barb said, silverplate can be replated and looks virtually like new.

If it's sterling silver, you can have it professionally buffed and
polished for a nominal cost. It will also look like new.

Following either of those choices, threaten SO with his life.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> Following either of those choices, threaten SO with his life.

When I was a child and did something uncouth, my family would say "Were
you born in a barn?" in a cross way. Well, this fellow was raised on a
boat, with even bathing being a niceity he often missed. I don't have to
threaten his life, I just remind him he's setting an example for his
toddler, and he has the old needle and thread out, mending his ways. One
(at least this one) cannot predict all the ways a toddler or a husband
can get into trouble, and therefore cannot prevent every mishap.
blacksalt
who has packed GGGM's china away for the duration

in article
,
Julian Vrieslander at wrote on
12/28/03 4:05 AM:

> Maybe because they are so expensive, and we are afraid to ruin them.

That's exactly what I figured it was. That's the stupid part of it, to me.
You pay a shit load of money for something that's supposed to be "the best"
to cook in, then you're afraid to cook in it because you're afraid washing
them will ruin them.

> On AllClads, that SS liner layer is actually quite thin. I wouldn't be
> surprised if a few years of serious scrubbing with an abrasive pad could
> wear through the liner.

Then what exactly are you paying for? I mean, if you think the SS liner
layer is so thin that you could scrub through it within a few years of
scrubbing with brillo, where exactly is the "HIGH QUALITY" you are
supposedly paying for? How are they better than my 40 year old Farberware
pans?


>
> None of these things last forever, except maybe the simple cast iron
> stuff.

I dunno. I have some Farberware stainless steel pans that are older than I
am. (I'll be 41 in May). They've been cooked in, burned in, scrubbed,
scrubbed and scrubbed, and neither my mother nor I have managed to ruin them
yet. And I have some that are about 10 years old, also not ruined. And I
have some that are about 6 years old.....even non-stick, and they are still
not ruined from scrubbing. And trust me, I am not a coddler. I don't baby
anything, especially pots and pans.

Pots and pans are designed to be cooked in and scrubbed afterward.
If you are afraid to do that in your expensive designer pots, maybe you
should hang them on the wall as artwork and get yourself some cheap pans to
actually cook in.

kalanamak > wrote in :

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>> Following either of those choices, threaten SO with his life.
>
> When I was a child and did something uncouth, my family would say "Were
> you born in a barn?" in a cross way. Well, this fellow was raised on a
> boat, with even bathing being a niceity he often missed. I don't have to
> threaten his life, I just remind him he's setting an example for his
> toddler, and he has the old needle and thread out, mending his ways. One
> (at least this one) cannot predict all the ways a toddler or a husband
> can get into trouble, and therefore cannot prevent every mishap.
> blacksalt
> who has packed GGGM's china away for the duration
>

Understood. My SO was raised in very poor and unfotunate circumstances,
too, including child abuse. Over the years there hss been much gentle
"teaching". For a very long time I put many things out of harm's way.

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:13:56 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>
> when it gets really, really bad, consider having it replated. I
> did that once with a big serving spoon that went back to my childhood
> days. Cost me maybe $18 and I did it for sentimental reasons. I'm
> glad I did. JCPenney ran the special; they sent it out for replating.

A lot of things deserve replating. Certainly family items
do, but I also like to buy silver (which is usually silver
plated) at antique stores. I buy the item because the
pattern is pretty and I don't worry about how much silver is
left because it can always be replated.


Practice safe eating - always use condiments

>Julian Vrieslander wrote:
>>
>> We recently bought a 12" All-Clad fry pan. Nice size for sauteeing
>> chicken, chops, etc. But keeping the thing clean is a challenge. Globs
>> of hardened oil adhere to the stainless steel liner. We have tried
>> plastic scrubbers (Dobie), overnight soaking, Bar Keeper's Friend, etc.
>> Nothing seems to touch these stains.
>
>I feel like a shill for Dawn, but I've read good things about that
>new Dawn Power Dissolver.
>
>nancy

Bought a bottle of Dawn Power Dissolver after hearing someone rave about it -
the stuff isn't cheap, but it really worked well for me. Sprayed it on an evil
baked-on greasy mess of a roasting pan, let it sit for a bit and scrubbed up
with the business side of a kitchen sponge. Didn't peel my tender skin off
either. For my money, it's good stuff.
NT (who loves the cooking, but hates the cleaning up)

> We recently bought a 12" All-Clad fry pan. Nice size for sauteeing
> chicken, chops, etc. But keeping the thing clean is a challenge. Globs
> of hardened oil adhere to the stainless steel liner. We have tried
> plastic scrubbers (Dobie), overnight soaking, Bar Keeper's Friend, etc.
> Nothing seems to touch these stains.


We put our All-Clad Stainles Steel in the dishwasher and they get nice
and clean. If the pots are really cruddy, we put them in the
dishwasher and set it for Soak + Pots and Pans. Does a beautiful job.
On other pots, we have used the Dawn Power Disolver. Sometimes you
have to use it twice. That also does a lovely job.

Pots and pans are meant to be used. A few stains on the outside show
that you are using them. Don't be afraid to scrub them. They are made
for that.

I found that thorough cleaning is a MUST before cooking again..otherwise you
end up with these cooked on oil blobs..I soak and scrub if husband does not
clean well..he seems to not tackle the outside of the pans and I may not
notice the spots for few cooking cycles if he is doing all the cooking AND
clean up. I am not sure of the effect on the inside of the pan..our insides
are silverware

--

Laura


"Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
message
...
> We recently bought a 12" All-Clad fry pan. Nice size for sauteeing
> chicken, chops, etc. But keeping the thing clean is a challenge. Globs
> of hardened oil adhere to the stainless steel liner. We have tried
> plastic scrubbers (Dobie), overnight soaking, Bar Keeper's Friend, etc.
> Nothing seems to touch these stains.
>
> So far, I have resisted the impulse to scour with abrasive pads and
> cleaners. They are likely to scratch the ss surface, making it more
> likely that food will stick, and stains will adhere even worse.
>
> Someone at Williams-Sonoma suggested EZ-Off oven cleaner. Has anyone
> tried that? Any other ideas?
>
> Or is it best to just ignore the oil buildup? On a cast iron pan, we
> would probably call it "seasoning". But on the shiny ss, it looks like
> schmutz.
>
> --
> Julian Vrieslander

PENMART01 wrote:

> > writes:
> >
> >I've used EZ-Off for burnt-on crud. I plan to try it on some old
> >baking sheets that look kinda cruddy despite serious scouring.
>
> Metal bakeware should never be scoured, the darker it gets the better it bakes.

I've had trouble with baking pans being dark and the cakes/cookies/whatever
browning too much and having a tough exterior. Do you lower the heat to compensate,
as you might with glass pans?
Goomba

Goomba38 writes:

>PENMART01 wrote:
>
>> > writes:
>> >
>> >I've used EZ-Off for burnt-on crud. I plan to try it on some old
>> >baking sheets that look kinda cruddy despite serious scouring.
>>
>> Metal bakeware should never be scoured, the darker it gets the better it
>bakes.
>
>I've had trouble with baking pans being dark and the cakes/cookies/whatever
>browning too much and having a tough exterior. Do you lower the heat to
>compensate, as you might with glass pans?

I don't even need to know your recipe with this one... it's not the
temperature, it's the time.. I mean pull your cookies (whatever) out of the
oven when they're done, not burned.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

Goomba38 wrote:

> I've had trouble with baking pans being dark and the cakes/cookies/whatever
> browning too much and having a tough exterior. Do you lower the heat to compensate,
> as you might with glass pans?

For the stuff that comes dark (ie the heavy Bundt pans), I lower the
heat by 25 F.

-j.

"Sheryl Rosen" > wrote in message
...
> in article
> ,

>
> scrubbing stainless may scratch the surface, but that has absolutely no
> bearing on what sticks to it or not. Where did you hear that scratching
> stainless steel would make it more likely food will stick?

Generally speaking, food sticks more to a rough surface than to a smooth
surface. Shirley Corriher discusses this in her book, "Cookwise." She
claims that foods leak proteins into the minute scratches on cookware. When
the pan heats, the proteins coagulate in the scratches, the channels in the
surface shrink when heated, and the food sticks. Whether this is true, (I
have no reason to doubt it and I have discussed it with Corriher, who
assures me that she researched it) I find that scratched cookware does tend
to cause food to stick.

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> > I scrub the heck out of mine, and the SO really gets mean with it. Being
> > raised in a very poor family, he had no silver in his childhood, and
> > scrubbed the heck out of baby's silver cup yesterday. Ugh. Anyone know
> > how to get brillo marks out of silver?
> > TIA
> > blacksalt
>
> No, but when it gets really, really bad, consider having it replated. I
> did that once with a big serving spoon that went back to my childhood
> days. Cost me maybe $18 and I did it for sentimental reasons. I'm
> glad I did. JCPenney ran the special; they sent it out for replating.
>

My maternal Irish grandmother was a maid on the Doubleday family's estate on
Long Island and when she left service they presented her with a very nice
platter engraved with her name, date and regards from The Doubleday's. My
father had it replated for me one Christmas after my mom died. It is a nice
reminder of times gone by.
Goomba

Goomba38 > wrote in
:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
>> > I scrub the heck out of mine, and the SO really gets mean with it.
>> > Being raised in a very poor family, he had no silver in his
>> > childhood, and scrubbed the heck out of baby's silver cup
>> > yesterday. Ugh. Anyone know how to get brillo marks out of silver?
>> > TIA
>> > blacksalt
>>
>> No, but when it gets really, really bad, consider having it replated.
>> I did that once with a big serving spoon that went back to my
>> childhood days. Cost me maybe $18 and I did it for sentimental
>> reasons. I'm glad I did. JCPenney ran the special; they sent it
>> out for replating.
>>
>
> My maternal Irish grandmother was a maid on the Doubleday family's
> estate on Long Island and when she left service they presented her
> with a very nice platter engraved with her name, date and regards from
> The Doubleday's. My father had it replated for me one Christmas after
> my mom died. It is a nice reminder of times gone by.
> Goomba

What a wonderful keepsake that you'll also be able to pass along!

Wayne

In rec.food.cooking, Sheryl Rosen > wrote:

> It's the cooking technique that determines whether the food sticks to
> stainless or not. Never add oil to a cold pan, only a pre-heated one.
> That's a good place to start.

What difference does it make whethr the pan is cold when you add the oil?

--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who

wrote in :

> In rec.food.cooking, Sheryl Rosen > wrote:
>
>> It's the cooking technique that determines whether the food sticks to
>> stainless or not. Never add oil to a cold pan, only a pre-heated one.
>> That's a good place to start.
>
> What difference does it make whethr the pan is cold when you add the oil?
>

If the pan is cold the food sticks....that's the difference. the full rule
is hot pan cold oil. Meaning put the cooking oil in a pre-heated pan and
put the food in soon thereafter. I believe this rule is from the frugal
gourmet TV serries on PBS.

--
And the beet goes on! (or under)
-me just a while ago

In rec.food.cooking, hahabogus > wrote:
> wrote in :

> > In rec.food.cooking, Sheryl Rosen > wrote:
> >
> >> It's the cooking technique that determines whether the food sticks to
> >> stainless or not. Never add oil to a cold pan, only a pre-heated one.
> >> That's a good place to start.
> >
> > What difference does it make whethr the pan is cold when you add the oil?
> >

> If the pan is cold the food sticks....that's the difference.

Yeah. Of course. But I'm not asking about the food, but rather, the oil.
Why does it matter wheter the pan is hot when you add the oil?

the full rule
> is hot pan cold oil. Meaning put the cooking oil in a pre-heated pan and
> put the food in soon thereafter. I believe this rule is from the frugal
> gourmet TV serries on PBS.


I don't understand why this makes any sense at all. Why can't you just
put the oil in, turn on the flame, and add the food when it gets hot?

--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who

wrote in
:

>> If the pan is cold the food sticks....that's the difference.
>
> Yeah. Of course. But I'm not asking about the food, but rather, the
> oil. Why does it matter wheter the pan is hot when you add the oil?
>
> the full rule
>> is hot pan cold oil. Meaning put the cooking oil in a pre-heated pan
>> and put the food in soon thereafter. I believe this rule is from the
>> frugal gourmet TV serries on PBS.
>
>
> I don't understand why this makes any sense at all. Why can't you
> just put the oil in, turn on the flame, and add the food when it gets
> hot?
>
> --
> ...I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...
>
> - The Who
>
>

Because if you just put the oil in, turn on the flame and add the
food....Guess what happens? You're right the food sticks.

The rule doesn't care that you don't understand...rules never do.

If it really bothers you...don't follow the rule. See if the rule cares.


Simple rule, like spitting into the wind. (The rule is don't in this case.)

--
And the beet goes on! (or under)
-me just a while ago

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:56:33 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

> In rec.food.cooking, hahabogus > wrote:
> > wrote in :
>

> Yeah. Of course. But I'm not asking about the food, but rather, the oil.
> Why does it matter wheter the pan is hot when you add the oil?
>
> the full rule
> > is hot pan cold oil. Meaning put the cooking oil in a pre-heated pan and
> > put the food in soon thereafter. I believe this rule is from the frugal
> > gourmet TV serries on PBS.
>
>
> I don't understand why this makes any sense at all. Why can't you just
> put the oil in, turn on the flame, and add the food when it gets hot?

If your pan is thin, your way would probably work alright.

If your pan is thick, it won't.


Practice safe eating - always use condiments

In rec.food.cooking, hahabogus > wrote:
> wrote in
> :

> >> If the pan is cold the food sticks....that's the difference.
> >
> > Yeah. Of course. But I'm not asking about the food, but rather, the
> > oil. Why does it matter wheter the pan is hot when you add the oil?
> >
> > the full rule
> >> is hot pan cold oil. Meaning put the cooking oil in a pre-heated pan
> >> and put the food in soon thereafter. I believe this rule is from the
> >> frugal gourmet TV serries on PBS.
> >
> >
> > I don't understand why this makes any sense at all. Why can't you
> > just put the oil in, turn on the flame, and add the food when it gets
> > hot?

> Because if you just put the oil in, turn on the flame and add the
> food....Guess what happens? You're right the food sticks.

Why did you replace my phrase "when it gets hot" with 4 dots?


> The rule doesn't care that you don't understand...rules never do.

> If it really bothers you...don't follow the rule. See if the rule cares.


So can you explain why? Or not?



--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who

In rec.food.cooking, sf > wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:56:33 +0000 (UTC),
> wrote:

> > In rec.food.cooking, hahabogus > wrote:
> > > wrote in :
> >

> > Yeah. Of course. But I'm not asking about the food, but rather, the oil.
> > Why does it matter wheter the pan is hot when you add the oil?
> >
> > the full rule
> > > is hot pan cold oil. Meaning put the cooking oil in a pre-heated pan and
> > > put the food in soon thereafter. I believe this rule is from the frugal
> > > gourmet TV serries on PBS.
> >
> >
> > I don't understand why this makes any sense at all. Why can't you just
> > put the oil in, turn on the flame, and add the food when it gets hot?

> If your pan is thin, your way would probably work alright.

> If your pan is thick, it won't.

Huh? I realy just don't understand why any of this makes sense. I'm
really curious. If what you guys are saying is true, there must be some
scientific reason.


--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who

The main reason I have never scrubbed a stainless steel pan/pot is that I've
heard "by many" that once a stainless steel has a scratch, or the smooth
surface has been damaged or is no longer smooth, then that area which is no
longer sealed will continue to leach into your food from that area; and that
is not good for your stomach.

I suppose it would not take much imagination to make the leap from "aluminum
deposits in the brain" to "steel shavings in thy stomach"?



Dee




"Sheryl Rosen" > wrote in message
...
> in article
> ,
> Julian Vrieslander at wrote on
> 12/27/03 11:59 PM:
>
> > We recently bought a 12" All-Clad fry pan. Nice size for sauteeing
> > chicken, chops, etc. But keeping the thing clean is a challenge. Globs
> > of hardened oil adhere to the stainless steel liner. We have tried
> > plastic scrubbers (Dobie), overnight soaking, Bar Keeper's Friend, etc.
> > Nothing seems to touch these stains.
> >
> > So far, I have resisted the impulse to scour with abrasive pads and
> > cleaners. They are likely to scratch the ss surface, making it more
> > likely that food will stick, and stains will adhere even worse.
> >
> > Someone at Williams-Sonoma suggested EZ-Off oven cleaner. Has anyone
> > tried that? Any other ideas?
> >
> > Or is it best to just ignore the oil buildup? On a cast iron pan, we
> > would probably call it "seasoning". But on the shiny ss, it looks like
> > schmutz.
>
> scrubbing stainless may scratch the surface, but that has absolutely no
> bearing on what sticks to it or not. Where did you hear that scratching
> stainless steel would make it more likely food will stick?
>
> Stainless Steel is not non-stick.
> And nothing you can do will change that.
> You cannot season stainless steel. And it should be clean each time you
use
> it. One of the advantages of stainless is that it cleans up beautifully
and
> you don't have to be afraid to scrub it, like with non-stick coatings or
> anodized aluminum.
>
> It's the cooking technique that determines whether the food sticks to
> stainless or not. Never add oil to a cold pan, only a pre-heated one.
> That's a good place to start.
>
> Get yourself a good grease cutting detergent, as a first step.
> I use Ajax and am amazed at its grease cutting properties.
> I haven't been able to cook anything that Lemon Ajax and a blue
ScotchBrite
> sponge can't clean!
>
> Try soaking it for a couple hours in hot, hot water with a squirt of Ajax
> dish detergent. Then go at it with the blue ScotchBrite sponge, with more
> detergent applied to the sponge. Give it some elbow grease, it should
come
> clean. If that doesn't work, SOS or Brillo should finish the job.
>
> Seriously, I have had some pretty greasy, icky messes in stainless steel
> pans, and this method leaves them spotlessly, shiny clean.
>
> One caveat, though: Scratches on cookware is a sign that they are being
used
> as they were intended. Pots are tools, meant to be cooked in, washed,
> scrubbed, etc. I just don't understand people who are afraid to use and
> scrub their stainless steel pots. Funny how it's always an All-Clad pan
> they are afraid to scrub. Why is that?????
>

Pardon me -- what/who is SO?
Dee
"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
. ..
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote in
> :
>
> > In article >, kalanamak
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> Sheryl Rosen wrote:
> >> <vbsnip>
> >> > Funny how it's always an All-Clad pan
> >> > they are afraid to scrub. Why is that?????
> >>
> >> I scrub the heck out of mine, and the SO really gets mean with it.
> >> Being raised in a very poor family, he had no silver in his
> >> childhood, and scrubbed the heck out of baby's silver cup yesterday.
> >> Ugh. Anyone know how to get brillo marks out of silver?
> >> TIA
> >> blacksalt
> >
> > No, but when it gets really, really bad, consider having it replated.
> > I did that once with a big serving spoon that went back to my
> > childhood days. Cost me maybe $18 and I did it for sentimental
> > reasons. I'm glad I did. JCPenney ran the special; they sent it out
> > for replating.
>
> As Barb said, silverplate can be replated and looks virtually like new.
>
> If it's sterling silver, you can have it professionally buffed and
> polished for a nominal cost. It will also look like new.
>
> Following either of those choices, threaten SO with his life.

in article , at
wrote on 12/29/03 9:18 PM:

> In rec.food.cooking, hahabogus > wrote:
>> wrote in
>> :
>
>>>> If the pan is cold the food sticks....that's the difference.
>>>
>>> Yeah. Of course. But I'm not asking about the food, but rather, the
>>> oil. Why does it matter wheter the pan is hot when you add the oil?
>>>
>>> the full rule
>>>> is hot pan cold oil. Meaning put the cooking oil in a pre-heated pan
>>>> and put the food in soon thereafter. I believe this rule is from the
>>>> frugal gourmet TV serries on PBS.
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't understand why this makes any sense at all. Why can't you
>>> just put the oil in, turn on the flame, and add the food when it gets
>>> hot?
>
>> Because if you just put the oil in, turn on the flame and add the
>> food....Guess what happens? You're right the food sticks.
>
> Why did you replace my phrase "when it gets hot" with 4 dots?
>
>
>> The rule doesn't care that you don't understand...rules never do.
>
>> If it really bothers you...don't follow the rule. See if the rule cares.
>
>
> So can you explain why? Or not?
>
>

It works.
It's something to do with physics.

All I need to know is, when I follow the rule, my food doesn't stick and I
don't get greasy globs that don't scrub off on my pans. And when I put the
oil into a cold pan, then add the food....my food sticks to the pan and I
have a mess.

So i don't ask questions, I just accept it as nature and follow it and I
don't have any trouble.

in article , Dee Randall at
wrote on 12/29/03 9:23 PM:

> The main reason I have never scrubbed a stainless steel pan/pot is that I've
> heard "by many" that once a stainless steel has a scratch, or the smooth
> surface has been damaged or is no longer smooth, then that area which is no
> longer sealed will continue to leach into your food from that area; and that
> is not good for your stomach.
>
> I suppose it would not take much imagination to make the leap from "aluminum
> deposits in the brain" to "steel shavings in thy stomach"?
>
>
>
> Dee

???

wrote in :

> In rec.food.cooking, hahabogus > wrote:
>> wrote in
>> :
>
>> >> If the pan is cold the food sticks....that's the difference.
>> >
>> > Yeah. Of course. But I'm not asking about the food, but rather, the
>> > oil. Why does it matter wheter the pan is hot when you add the oil?
>> >
>> > the full rule
>> >> is hot pan cold oil. Meaning put the cooking oil in a pre-heated pan
>> >> and put the food in soon thereafter. I believe this rule is from the
>> >> frugal gourmet TV serries on PBS.
>> >
>> >
>> > I don't understand why this makes any sense at all. Why can't you
>> > just put the oil in, turn on the flame, and add the food when it gets
>> > hot?
>
>> Because if you just put the oil in, turn on the flame and add the
>> food....Guess what happens? You're right the food sticks.
>
> Why did you replace my phrase "when it gets hot" with 4 dots?
>
>
>> The rule doesn't care that you don't understand...rules never do.
>
>> If it really bothers you...don't follow the rule. See if the rule cares.
>
>
> So can you explain why? Or not?
>
>
>

Can I explain what? Why the dots or why you don't understand?

--
And the beet goes on! (or under)
-me just a while ago

"Dee Randall" > wrote in
:

> Pardon me -- what/who is SO?
> Dee

Sorry, Dee. SO=Significant Other

> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in
> message . ..
>> Melba's Jammin' > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> > In article >, kalanamak
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Sheryl Rosen wrote:
>> >> <vbsnip>
>> >> > Funny how it's always an All-Clad pan
>> >> > they are afraid to scrub. Why is that?????
>> >>
>> >> I scrub the heck out of mine, and the SO really gets mean with it.
>> >> Being raised in a very poor family, he had no silver in his
>> >> childhood, and scrubbed the heck out of baby's silver cup
>> >> yesterday. Ugh. Anyone know how to get brillo marks out of silver?
>> >> TIA
>> >> blacksalt
>> >
>> > No, but when it gets really, really bad, consider having it
>> > replated. I did that once with a big serving spoon that went back
>> > to my childhood days. Cost me maybe $18 and I did it for
>> > sentimental reasons. I'm glad I did. JCPenney ran the special;
>> > they sent it out for replating.
>>
>> As Barb said, silverplate can be replated and looks virtually like
>> new.
>>
>> If it's sterling silver, you can have it professionally buffed and
>> polished for a nominal cost. It will also look like new.
>>
>> Following either of those choices, threaten SO with his life.
>
>
>

In article >,
Sheryl Rosen > wrote:

> in article , at
> wrote on 12/29/03 9:18 PM:
>
> > So can you explain why? Or not?
>
> It works.
> It's something to do with physics.
>
> All I need to know is, when I follow the rule, my food doesn't stick and I
> don't get greasy globs that don't scrub off on my pans. And when I put the
> oil into a cold pan, then add the food....my food sticks to the pan and I
> have a mess.
>
> So i don't ask questions, I just accept it as nature and follow it and I
> don't have any trouble.

As a recovering physicist, I always ask questions. Here we go again -
I'm having a relapse. :-)

Consider three frying methods:

(a) Put oil and food in pan, then heat.

(b) Heat the pan, then add oil and food at same time.

(c) Put oil in cold pan, heat the oil, then add food.

(d) Heat the pan, add oil to hot pan, heat oil, then add food.

Has anyone here actually done a careful comparison to see if Sheryl's
recommended method (d) results in less food sticking than the others?
Maybe I'll try this out and report the results here.

Over the years, I've probably done all 4 of these methods. Can't say
that I've noticed any substantial difference in food sticking. If I had
to guess, before doing the test, I would venture that (c) and (d) might
produce less sticking than (a) and (b). If the food hits hot oil, and
the browning reaction starts immediately, perhaps this changes the
external surface of the food before it can adhere to the pan. But it's
not obvious to me why there should be less sticking with (d) than (c),
as Sheryl claims. Does the oil react differently to slow vs. sudden
heating?

Or does the pan react differently if we preheat it before adding oil?
Some people claim that preheating closes the "pores" on the pan's
cooking surface. See for example

<http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cookware/msg0623090428443.html>

But my recollection from physics is that thermal expansion causes a
solid body to expand proportionally in all dimensions. The pores should
get larger. Perhaps the preheating drives moisture (or other
contaminants) off the cooking surface.

--
Julian Vrieslander

In article

>,
Julian Vrieslander > wrote:

> Consider three frying methods:

OK, the ex-physicist can't count. I'm used to estimating orders of
magnitude. Besides, I was an experimentalist.

--
Julian Vrieslander

In rec.food.cooking, Julian Vrieslander > wrote:

> Consider three frying methods:

> (a) Put oil and food in pan, then heat.

> (b) Heat the pan, then add oil and food at same time.

> (c) Put oil in cold pan, heat the oil, then add food.

> (d) Heat the pan, add oil to hot pan, heat oil, then add food.

> Has anyone here actually done a careful comparison to see if Sheryl's
> recommended method (d) results in less food sticking than the others?


I do (c). According to what has been posted here, that should result in
the food sticking. I haven't noticed a problem.

But if (d) is so much better, as has been insisted upon repeatedly here,
then I'll do it.

I just want to know why.


--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who