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"zuuum" > wrote in
: > "hahabogus" > wrote in message > ... >> >> I much prefer Chicken Delight to KFC. CD has garlic in their batter >> for one thing. >> > Funny, I actually remember that flavor as much as the jingle and it > has been like 30+ years ago. > > > I ate chicken from them just last week. -- Last year's nuts must go. - Michael Odom |
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"zuuum" > wrote in
: > "hahabogus" > wrote in message > ... >> >> I much prefer Chicken Delight to KFC. CD has garlic in their batter >> for one thing. >> > Funny, I actually remember that flavor as much as the jingle and it > has been like 30+ years ago. > > > I ate chicken from them just last week. -- Last year's nuts must go. - Michael Odom |
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"StocksRus®" > wrote in message
50... <snip> > Here where I am now, we have a bullshit take off called Izzy's. Corned > beef has so much fat you chew for hours. And their potato pancakes have > lost their edge. Kraut tastes like it comes from a jar. > Hmmm.... I miss the old wood barrel kraut...and pickles that would knock > your socks off. If it's the same Izzy's I know, it bears no resemblance to the Izzy's of the late 50s and early 60s. The evolution is so sad and unfortunate I'd rather they'd have just gone out of business altogether. |
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"StocksRus®" > wrote in message
50... <snip> > Here where I am now, we have a bullshit take off called Izzy's. Corned > beef has so much fat you chew for hours. And their potato pancakes have > lost their edge. Kraut tastes like it comes from a jar. > Hmmm.... I miss the old wood barrel kraut...and pickles that would knock > your socks off. If it's the same Izzy's I know, it bears no resemblance to the Izzy's of the late 50s and early 60s. The evolution is so sad and unfortunate I'd rather they'd have just gone out of business altogether. |
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"Chloe" > wrote in
: > "StocksRus®" > wrote in message > 50... > <snip> >> Here where I am now, we have a bullshit take off called Izzy's. >> Corned beef has so much fat you chew for hours. And their potato >> pancakes have lost their edge. Kraut tastes like it comes from a jar. >> Hmmm.... I miss the old wood barrel kraut...and pickles that would >> knock >> your socks off. > > If it's the same Izzy's I know, it bears no resemblance to the Izzy's > of the late 50s and early 60s. The evolution is so sad and unfortunate > I'd rather they'd have just gone out of business altogether. > > > If you're in Columbus, yep...same Izzy's. The one in Cinti. -- StocksRus® |
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"StocksRus®" > wrote in message 50... > "Chloe" > wrote in > : > > > "StocksRus®" > wrote in message > > 50... > > <snip> > >> Here where I am now, we have a bullshit take off called Izzy's. > >> Corned beef has so much fat you chew for hours. And their potato > >> pancakes have lost their edge. Kraut tastes like it comes from a jar. > >> Hmmm.... I miss the old wood barrel kraut...and pickles that would > >> knock > >> your socks off. > > > > If it's the same Izzy's I know, it bears no resemblance to the Izzy's > > of the late 50s and early 60s. The evolution is so sad and unfortunate > > I'd rather they'd have just gone out of business altogether. > > > > > > > > If you're in Columbus, yep...same Izzy's. The one in Cinti. > I'm in Cincinnati, and I can remember when Izzy's was pretty good. Then the old folks died and there was some sort of family feud. They expanded and then they seemed to disappear. A couple of months ago we decided to have lunch at their Forrest Park restaurant. We got their "famous" corned beef" sandwiches and a potato pancake. There were pickles on the table. The food was crap! There was a small amount of fatty, bland beef on Wonder Bread and a greasy potato pancake. The pickles weren't anything special. We both ate our lunch and left without saying a word. Never again! |
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"StocksRus®" > wrote in message 50... > "Chloe" > wrote in > : > > > "StocksRus®" > wrote in message > > 50... > > <snip> > >> Here where I am now, we have a bullshit take off called Izzy's. > >> Corned beef has so much fat you chew for hours. And their potato > >> pancakes have lost their edge. Kraut tastes like it comes from a jar. > >> Hmmm.... I miss the old wood barrel kraut...and pickles that would > >> knock > >> your socks off. > > > > If it's the same Izzy's I know, it bears no resemblance to the Izzy's > > of the late 50s and early 60s. The evolution is so sad and unfortunate > > I'd rather they'd have just gone out of business altogether. > > > > > > > > If you're in Columbus, yep...same Izzy's. The one in Cinti. > I'm in Cincinnati, and I can remember when Izzy's was pretty good. Then the old folks died and there was some sort of family feud. They expanded and then they seemed to disappear. A couple of months ago we decided to have lunch at their Forrest Park restaurant. We got their "famous" corned beef" sandwiches and a potato pancake. There were pickles on the table. The food was crap! There was a small amount of fatty, bland beef on Wonder Bread and a greasy potato pancake. The pickles weren't anything special. We both ate our lunch and left without saying a word. Never again! |
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"Vox Humana" > wrote in
: > > "StocksRus®" > wrote in message > 50... >> "Chloe" > wrote in >> : >> >> > "StocksRus®" > wrote in message >> > 50... >> > <snip> >> >> Here where I am now, we have a bullshit take off called Izzy's. >> >> Corned beef has so much fat you chew for hours. And their potato >> >> pancakes have lost their edge. Kraut tastes like it comes from a >> >> jar. >> >> Hmmm.... I miss the old wood barrel kraut...and pickles that >> >> would knock >> >> your socks off. >> > >> > If it's the same Izzy's I know, it bears no resemblance to the >> > Izzy's of the late 50s and early 60s. The evolution is so sad and >> > unfortunate I'd rather they'd have just gone out of business >> > altogether. >> > >> > >> > >> >> If you're in Columbus, yep...same Izzy's. The one in Cinti. >> > > I'm in Cincinnati, and I can remember when Izzy's was pretty good. > Then the old folks died and there was some sort of family feud. They > expanded and then they seemed to disappear. A couple of months ago we > decided to have lunch at their Forrest Park restaurant. We got their > "famous" corned beef" sandwiches and a potato pancake. There were > pickles on the table. The food was crap! There was a small amount of > fatty, bland beef on Wonder Bread and a greasy potato pancake. The > pickles weren't anything special. We both ate our lunch and left > without saying a word. Never again! > > > Where in Cincinnati? I just moved to the Maineville area. Huge growth out here. Traffic has become a nightmare, and good places to eat are hard to find. 20 mile house is gone, Encores is a disappoinment, and Copelands...well...is Copelands. Good steaks and that's it. -- StocksRus® |
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"Vox Humana" > wrote in
: > > "StocksRus®" > wrote in message > 50... >> "Chloe" > wrote in >> : >> >> > "StocksRus®" > wrote in message >> > 50... >> > <snip> >> >> Here where I am now, we have a bullshit take off called Izzy's. >> >> Corned beef has so much fat you chew for hours. And their potato >> >> pancakes have lost their edge. Kraut tastes like it comes from a >> >> jar. >> >> Hmmm.... I miss the old wood barrel kraut...and pickles that >> >> would knock >> >> your socks off. >> > >> > If it's the same Izzy's I know, it bears no resemblance to the >> > Izzy's of the late 50s and early 60s. The evolution is so sad and >> > unfortunate I'd rather they'd have just gone out of business >> > altogether. >> > >> > >> > >> >> If you're in Columbus, yep...same Izzy's. The one in Cinti. >> > > I'm in Cincinnati, and I can remember when Izzy's was pretty good. > Then the old folks died and there was some sort of family feud. They > expanded and then they seemed to disappear. A couple of months ago we > decided to have lunch at their Forrest Park restaurant. We got their > "famous" corned beef" sandwiches and a potato pancake. There were > pickles on the table. The food was crap! There was a small amount of > fatty, bland beef on Wonder Bread and a greasy potato pancake. The > pickles weren't anything special. We both ate our lunch and left > without saying a word. Never again! > > > Where in Cincinnati? I just moved to the Maineville area. Huge growth out here. Traffic has become a nightmare, and good places to eat are hard to find. 20 mile house is gone, Encores is a disappoinment, and Copelands...well...is Copelands. Good steaks and that's it. -- StocksRus® |
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PENMART01 wrote:
>>"StocksRus®" writes: >> >> >>>(PENMART01) wrote: >> >>> The greatest detriment to opening a restaurant is knowing how to >>> cook, because >>>if you're going to work the back you can't tend the front. The three >>>secrets to sucess is hiring a cook, tending your register, and having >>>eyes in back of your head... not only is money pilfered, you'd be >>>amazed at how much food walks out the back door. I've owned >>>restaurants many years ago, today I'd not recommend it to anyone, >>>other than if one needs a tax loss. >> >>I'm curious. What type of restaurant did you own? > > > A kosher deli on 15th Ave. and 43rd St. in Brooklyn, inherited from my aging > grandparents. Coal mining is easier work, far fewer hours, much less > stressful, earns more pay, and comes with benefits. Now you know why there are > so few kosher delis. I would never encourage anyone to go into the restuarant > business. My best childhood friend inherited his father's Jeep dealership > (first one in US), a very successful business. He owns a big Greek diner > nearby, for a tax loss. Unless one is of the mentality to exist like their > early 1900s immigrant grandparents don't even consider the restaurant business. > > > ---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =--- > ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- > ********* > "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." > Sheldon > ```````````` I grew up in my Uncle's restaurant (The Clam Broth House I ) in Hoboken, and I can tell you that my uncle made a lot of money--a millionaire. He came from Cuba in the 40's with only his clothes and 10 US bucks (was a bookkeeper) and after working in various kitchens in the various NY hotels, ended up at CBH working his way up from cleaning plates, bus boy, waiter, maitre d, manager, and eventually buying the place. All in a matter of 18 years. He was very hard working (the boss would call him on weekends without too much notification,) and honest. Quite a rare human if you ever meet him (he's 84 and strong.) I can tell you that it was a lot of work and headaches (it was a 9 dining room monster, with a men's bar and a grand ball room.) I used to leave the place with a distinct odor of fish and cigarette smoke. In the rest business you either fold the first year, or you start to make money; unless you are willing to be eaten alive insidiously. Rich -- "Dum Spiro, Spero." As long as I breath, I hope. Cicero |
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PENMART01 wrote:
>>"StocksRus®" writes: >> >> >>>(PENMART01) wrote: >> >>> The greatest detriment to opening a restaurant is knowing how to >>> cook, because >>>if you're going to work the back you can't tend the front. The three >>>secrets to sucess is hiring a cook, tending your register, and having >>>eyes in back of your head... not only is money pilfered, you'd be >>>amazed at how much food walks out the back door. I've owned >>>restaurants many years ago, today I'd not recommend it to anyone, >>>other than if one needs a tax loss. >> >>I'm curious. What type of restaurant did you own? > > > A kosher deli on 15th Ave. and 43rd St. in Brooklyn, inherited from my aging > grandparents. Coal mining is easier work, far fewer hours, much less > stressful, earns more pay, and comes with benefits. Now you know why there are > so few kosher delis. I would never encourage anyone to go into the restuarant > business. My best childhood friend inherited his father's Jeep dealership > (first one in US), a very successful business. He owns a big Greek diner > nearby, for a tax loss. Unless one is of the mentality to exist like their > early 1900s immigrant grandparents don't even consider the restaurant business. > > > ---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =--- > ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- > ********* > "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." > Sheldon > ```````````` I grew up in my Uncle's restaurant (The Clam Broth House I ) in Hoboken, and I can tell you that my uncle made a lot of money--a millionaire. He came from Cuba in the 40's with only his clothes and 10 US bucks (was a bookkeeper) and after working in various kitchens in the various NY hotels, ended up at CBH working his way up from cleaning plates, bus boy, waiter, maitre d, manager, and eventually buying the place. All in a matter of 18 years. He was very hard working (the boss would call him on weekends without too much notification,) and honest. Quite a rare human if you ever meet him (he's 84 and strong.) I can tell you that it was a lot of work and headaches (it was a 9 dining room monster, with a men's bar and a grand ball room.) I used to leave the place with a distinct odor of fish and cigarette smoke. In the rest business you either fold the first year, or you start to make money; unless you are willing to be eaten alive insidiously. Rich -- "Dum Spiro, Spero." As long as I breath, I hope. Cicero |
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"StocksRus®" > wrote in message 0... > > Where in Cincinnati? I just moved to the Maineville area. Huge growth out > here. Traffic has become a nightmare, and good places to eat are hard to > find. 20 mile house is gone, Encores is a disappoinment, and > Copelands...well...is Copelands. Good steaks and that's it. I'm in Eastgate. Yes, Maineville is crazy with growth. I love to garden and I visit a great perennial nursery just off 48, south of Montgomery Rd., called Greenview Plant Farm, so I get out your way occasionally. At least they didn't have Homearama at River's Bend this year - talk about traffic! We looked at a 3 legged Shar-Pei to adopt at a new subdivision in that area called Michael's something or other ( they all look the same after a time) but it didn't work out for us. I think that Encore is a case of too rapid expansion. The Sturkeys now have at least three restaurants which is probably two too many for them. I would stick with their place in Wyoming and forget about the newer suburban operations. I was at Copeland's once and it was "OK" - large portions and the service was a bit pretentious for a chain operation - never went back. It seems to be a favorite place for vendor functions where my SO works. What happed to the 20 Mile House/ Hyde Park Chop House? It has been gone for some time. You are close enough to Lebanon. Have you tried the Golden Lamb? http://www.goldenlamb.com/ The White House Inn in Westchester is OK - nice atmosphere and reliable food. The owner/chef is a CIA graduate and was the executive chef for a large chain before opening the White House. http://www.heartlandcooking.com/index.html Germano's in Montgomery is worth a try also. |
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"StocksRus®" > wrote in message 0... > > Where in Cincinnati? I just moved to the Maineville area. Huge growth out > here. Traffic has become a nightmare, and good places to eat are hard to > find. 20 mile house is gone, Encores is a disappoinment, and > Copelands...well...is Copelands. Good steaks and that's it. I'm in Eastgate. Yes, Maineville is crazy with growth. I love to garden and I visit a great perennial nursery just off 48, south of Montgomery Rd., called Greenview Plant Farm, so I get out your way occasionally. At least they didn't have Homearama at River's Bend this year - talk about traffic! We looked at a 3 legged Shar-Pei to adopt at a new subdivision in that area called Michael's something or other ( they all look the same after a time) but it didn't work out for us. I think that Encore is a case of too rapid expansion. The Sturkeys now have at least three restaurants which is probably two too many for them. I would stick with their place in Wyoming and forget about the newer suburban operations. I was at Copeland's once and it was "OK" - large portions and the service was a bit pretentious for a chain operation - never went back. It seems to be a favorite place for vendor functions where my SO works. What happed to the 20 Mile House/ Hyde Park Chop House? It has been gone for some time. You are close enough to Lebanon. Have you tried the Golden Lamb? http://www.goldenlamb.com/ The White House Inn in Westchester is OK - nice atmosphere and reliable food. The owner/chef is a CIA graduate and was the executive chef for a large chain before opening the White House. http://www.heartlandcooking.com/index.html Germano's in Montgomery is worth a try also. |
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Basing your prices on competition's is what was called the
"no-method-method" in our textbook when I was in school, and the most risky. BUT, if your prices for a similar product are higher than your competitors' you will need something to increse "perceived" value. Either, exceptional quality, swift and polite service, ambience or some other reason one will choose to go to your cafe and perhaps spend more. Some people will spend more for a view or wide-screen sports tv, rather than looking out at run-down scenery with a noisey radio blaring from the kitchen. But the way things are lately, many may be less concerned about ambience than economy. So..... try to add some especially low cost (your cost) items that "sell like hotcakes" Or... add items that no one else makes available but are not too expensive to produce or too exotic. I am constantly amazed what people pay for processed "health foods" and foodbars in my area ($6.50/lb for hot food and make your own salad??), but I would personally never go that route. Having studied nutrition, whole foods- freshly prepared is the base of healthy eating and as "specialized" as I need to get. |
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Basing your prices on competition's is what was called the
"no-method-method" in our textbook when I was in school, and the most risky. BUT, if your prices for a similar product are higher than your competitors' you will need something to increse "perceived" value. Either, exceptional quality, swift and polite service, ambience or some other reason one will choose to go to your cafe and perhaps spend more. Some people will spend more for a view or wide-screen sports tv, rather than looking out at run-down scenery with a noisey radio blaring from the kitchen. But the way things are lately, many may be less concerned about ambience than economy. So..... try to add some especially low cost (your cost) items that "sell like hotcakes" Or... add items that no one else makes available but are not too expensive to produce or too exotic. I am constantly amazed what people pay for processed "health foods" and foodbars in my area ($6.50/lb for hot food and make your own salad??), but I would personally never go that route. Having studied nutrition, whole foods- freshly prepared is the base of healthy eating and as "specialized" as I need to get. |
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"Bob Myers" > wrote in message ... > > <Uncle > wrote in message > ink.net... > > On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:52:33 GMT in > > >, "Mrs. Fat Man" > > > graced the world with this thought: > > > > >I agree with Vox; set your pricing according to what other restaurants in > > >the area are charging. > > > > and how is it, do you suppose, that they arrived at those numbers? > > A valid question, but it may not be the most important one > here. The point is that they HAVE arrived at those numbers, > and therefore set the market price. Now, if you can crank > through YOUR numbers and come up with a way to sell at > a lower price and still make an acceptable level of profit, > that would be nice... > > Bob M. > > Increase the percieved value of the product, which includes dining ambience, and you are not neccessarily bound by "market pricing". The only way your "formula" will work is to pay less for labor (meaning less skill), buy cheaper materials (lower quality-- other than finding less expensive suppliers and reducing waste) or remove or reduce recipe ingredients (or menu items entirely), and down-size everything else, including fixed cost. There are many markup formulas for foodservices. Some include bottom line profit and loss figures to determine a food-cost markup ratio. If the numbers don't jibe, cut your losses and get out! I work as a sole operator, catering private meals and functions, so my fixed overhead is negligable, making it easy to price services. As PENMART01 rather bleekly (though accurately) painted the picture, operating a restaurant is not exactly the life I care to lead. I knew that long before I got a culinary degree. |
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"Bob Myers" > wrote in message ... > > <Uncle > wrote in message > ink.net... > > On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:52:33 GMT in > > >, "Mrs. Fat Man" > > > graced the world with this thought: > > > > >I agree with Vox; set your pricing according to what other restaurants in > > >the area are charging. > > > > and how is it, do you suppose, that they arrived at those numbers? > > A valid question, but it may not be the most important one > here. The point is that they HAVE arrived at those numbers, > and therefore set the market price. Now, if you can crank > through YOUR numbers and come up with a way to sell at > a lower price and still make an acceptable level of profit, > that would be nice... > > Bob M. > > Increase the percieved value of the product, which includes dining ambience, and you are not neccessarily bound by "market pricing". The only way your "formula" will work is to pay less for labor (meaning less skill), buy cheaper materials (lower quality-- other than finding less expensive suppliers and reducing waste) or remove or reduce recipe ingredients (or menu items entirely), and down-size everything else, including fixed cost. There are many markup formulas for foodservices. Some include bottom line profit and loss figures to determine a food-cost markup ratio. If the numbers don't jibe, cut your losses and get out! I work as a sole operator, catering private meals and functions, so my fixed overhead is negligable, making it easy to price services. As PENMART01 rather bleekly (though accurately) painted the picture, operating a restaurant is not exactly the life I care to lead. I knew that long before I got a culinary degree. |
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Rich wrote:
>I grew up in my Uncle's restaurant (The Clam Broth House I ) in Hoboken, >and I can tell you that my uncle made a lot of money--a millionaire. He >came from Cuba in the 40's with only his clothes and 10 US bucks (was a >bookkeeper) and after working in various kitchens in the various NY >hotels, ended up at CBH working his way up from cleaning plates, bus >boy, waiter, maitre d, manager, and eventually buying the place. All in >a matter of 18 years. He was very hard working (the boss would call him >on weekends without too much notification,) and honest. Quite a rare >human if you ever meet him (he's 84 and strong.) > >I can tell you that it was a lot of work and headaches (it was a 9 >dining room monster, with a men's bar and a grand ball room.) I used to >leave the place with a distinct odor of fish and cigarette smoke. > >In the rest business you either fold the first year, or you start to >make money; unless you are willing to be eaten alive insidiously. > >Rich > >-- >"Dum Spiro, Spero." > >As long as I breath, I hope. > >Cicero > Interesting. I recently read an article about that restaurant. It's going to be torn down soon or has been torn down. So much history there. I'm glad that your uncle is doing well but sad that the Clam Broth House isn't. I would have liked to have eaten there one day. > > > > > |
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Rich wrote:
>I grew up in my Uncle's restaurant (The Clam Broth House I ) in Hoboken, >and I can tell you that my uncle made a lot of money--a millionaire. He >came from Cuba in the 40's with only his clothes and 10 US bucks (was a >bookkeeper) and after working in various kitchens in the various NY >hotels, ended up at CBH working his way up from cleaning plates, bus >boy, waiter, maitre d, manager, and eventually buying the place. All in >a matter of 18 years. He was very hard working (the boss would call him >on weekends without too much notification,) and honest. Quite a rare >human if you ever meet him (he's 84 and strong.) > >I can tell you that it was a lot of work and headaches (it was a 9 >dining room monster, with a men's bar and a grand ball room.) I used to >leave the place with a distinct odor of fish and cigarette smoke. > >In the rest business you either fold the first year, or you start to >make money; unless you are willing to be eaten alive insidiously. > >Rich > >-- >"Dum Spiro, Spero." > >As long as I breath, I hope. > >Cicero > Interesting. I recently read an article about that restaurant. It's going to be torn down soon or has been torn down. So much history there. I'm glad that your uncle is doing well but sad that the Clam Broth House isn't. I would have liked to have eaten there one day. > > > > > |
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Grismalkin wrote:
> Rich wrote: > > >>I grew up in my Uncle's restaurant (The Clam Broth House I ) in Hoboken, >>and I can tell you that my uncle made a lot of money--a millionaire. He >>came from Cuba in the 40's with only his clothes and 10 US bucks (was a >>bookkeeper) and after working in various kitchens in the various NY >>hotels, ended up at CBH working his way up from cleaning plates, bus >>boy, waiter, maitre d, manager, and eventually buying the place. All in >>a matter of 18 years. He was very hard working (the boss would call him >>on weekends without too much notification,) and honest. Quite a rare >>human if you ever meet him (he's 84 and strong.) >> >>I can tell you that it was a lot of work and headaches (it was a 9 >>dining room monster, with a men's bar and a grand ball room.) I used to >>leave the place with a distinct odor of fish and cigarette smoke. >> >>In the rest business you either fold the first year, or you start to >>make money; unless you are willing to be eaten alive insidiously. >> >>Rich >> >>-- >>"Dum Spiro, Spero." >> >>As long as I breath, I hope. >> >>Cicero >> > > Interesting. I recently read an article about that restaurant. It's going to > be torn down soon or has been torn down. So much history there. > > I'm glad that your uncle is doing well but sad that the Clam Broth House isn't. > I would have liked to have eaten there one day. > > > >> >> >> >> > > Yes, the facade of the building is crumbling, and my uncle has tremendous heachaches with this. I told him that at his age, I'd just sell everything and enjoy whatever is left on a cruise to Europe. I have very nice memories of the place and its food. The best was the free clam broth and the oyster crackers. Rich -- "Dum Spiro, Spero." As long as I breath, I hope. Cicero |
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Grismalkin wrote:
> Rich wrote: > > >>I grew up in my Uncle's restaurant (The Clam Broth House I ) in Hoboken, >>and I can tell you that my uncle made a lot of money--a millionaire. He >>came from Cuba in the 40's with only his clothes and 10 US bucks (was a >>bookkeeper) and after working in various kitchens in the various NY >>hotels, ended up at CBH working his way up from cleaning plates, bus >>boy, waiter, maitre d, manager, and eventually buying the place. All in >>a matter of 18 years. He was very hard working (the boss would call him >>on weekends without too much notification,) and honest. Quite a rare >>human if you ever meet him (he's 84 and strong.) >> >>I can tell you that it was a lot of work and headaches (it was a 9 >>dining room monster, with a men's bar and a grand ball room.) I used to >>leave the place with a distinct odor of fish and cigarette smoke. >> >>In the rest business you either fold the first year, or you start to >>make money; unless you are willing to be eaten alive insidiously. >> >>Rich >> >>-- >>"Dum Spiro, Spero." >> >>As long as I breath, I hope. >> >>Cicero >> > > Interesting. I recently read an article about that restaurant. It's going to > be torn down soon or has been torn down. So much history there. > > I'm glad that your uncle is doing well but sad that the Clam Broth House isn't. > I would have liked to have eaten there one day. > > > >> >> >> >> > > Yes, the facade of the building is crumbling, and my uncle has tremendous heachaches with this. I told him that at his age, I'd just sell everything and enjoy whatever is left on a cruise to Europe. I have very nice memories of the place and its food. The best was the free clam broth and the oyster crackers. Rich -- "Dum Spiro, Spero." As long as I breath, I hope. Cicero |
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I agree with Peter and George. You have so much to learn before opening an eating establishment. Good luck to you! |
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I agree with Peter and George. You have so much to learn before opening an eating establishment. Good luck to you! |
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"Vox Humana" > wrote in message > > I agree that you need to know all these things to determine if you will make > money. That said, if the going price for a dozen chicken wings in your area > is $3, then you could price them at $5 or $9 and not sell any. I think it > is a matter of reverse engineering. It is if you are going to sell the same chicken wings. If you have a special recipe and can justify the extra cost and have the clientele that appreciates what you have, you can get the higher price. Mercedes never reverse engineered to sell at the same price as the Chevy dealer across the street. they only have to sell one Mercedes to make the same money as the Chevy dealer selling maybe three or six or ten cars. The trick here is to know the clientele and what they are willing to pay for a superior product. If the OP is trying to compete with KFC and offer the same quality, well, that's another story. Ed |
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E F wrote:
>=20 > I agree with Peter and George. You have so much to learn before > opening an eating establishment. Good luck to you! >=20 A column I wrote a while back... You don't really want to open a restaurant There is this notion abroad that, because you can cook a good dinner=20 at home for some friends, you can operate a restaurant. Let me say=20 this clearly. Unmistakably. With no room for misinterpretation. You're=20 crazy to even entertain the notion. Seems a bit harsh, wouldn't you say? I mean, we're reasonably bright=20 people and we should be able to deal with something as simple as a=20 restaurant. It isn't rocket science, exactly. How difficult can it be? This from George Orwell in his novel, =93Down and Out in Paris and Londo= n:=94 "... would be the fearful noise and disorder during rush hours. It is=20 something so different from the steady work in a shop or a factory=20 that it looks at first sight like mere bad management. But it is=20 really quite unavoidable ... by its nature it comes in rushes and=20 cannot be economized. You cannot, for instance, grill a steak two=20 hours before it is wanted; you have to wait till the last moment, by=20 which time a mass of other work has accumulated, and then do it all=20 together, in frantic haste. The result is that at meal times everyone=20 is doing two men's work, which is impossible without noise and=20 quarreling. Indeed, the quarrels are a necessary part of the process,=20 for the pace would never be kept up if everyone did not accuse=20 everyone else of idling. It was for this reason that during the rush=20 hour the whole staff cursed like demons." Got it? Restaurants are no place for civilized people to work in.=20 Let's paint a small picture here. It's based on the past few weeks in=20 a kitchen where I'm the chef and a couple decades that qualified me to=20 be doing it. (Chef, in classic terminology means he's the guy who runs=20 the kitchen - the head cook, final culinary authority, and the person=20 who manages the operation. Nowadays, it too often means someone who=20 only cooks and, while that's certainly an honorable profession I've=20 spent a good portion of my life doing, it isn't the full meaning.) . In the kitchen, every kitchen, a kind of system develops based on the=20 needs of the kind of business it is. People come to restaurants and=20 clubs to dine. That assumes they want their food soon. Along with=20 everyone else who just walked through the door. The servers cruise=20 serenely through the dining room (the good ones) and attend to the=20 diners while the kitchen staff takes raw and partially-cooked foods to=20 the final state for delivery to customers. Step with me through the swinging doors to the kitchen. The first=20 thing you notice is the noise. Kitchens are loud because of the=20 velocity everyone moves at. Pans bang against stovetops, spoons=20 against pot walls. Dish machines hiss and splash and steam up=20 eyeglasses. Empty saut=E9 pans thrown into the metal bucket for the=20 dishwasher to come pick up. Whisks beating a kind of musical time to=20 the soprano notes from the deep fryer and the kerchunk as the ice=20 machine drops another hundred cubes. There's a rhythm to it all and=20 it's a fast, hard, loud one. Cooks and prep people barking orders to=20 each other. Then the wall of heat hits you. Kitchens are very hot. In the middle=20 of a meal service time, it can get over 100F back there. You stand=20 facing a deep fryer with 50 pounds of fat at 365 degrees Fahrenheit.=20 Next to that is the charbroiler and the surface grates can get up near=20 800F. The flattop grill is cooler, just 350F. The burners on the stove=20 - 8 of them - for saut=E9 pans to finish the vegetables and entrees. Odd = double boilers with hot sauces and broths, steam softly hissing out of=20 the bottom pan. The overhead range hood roars as it tries to suck hot=20 air away from the cook line faster than it can be heated. There's little small talk. People are telling each other what needs=20 to be done and they offer status reports. It doesn't sound polite.=20 Everyone speaks loudly because of the background noise and they=20 usually sound angry because they're almost shouting. If you don't have=20 a well-developed sense of urgency, the whole process looks like=20 anarchy. In fact, it's more like a raucous ballet on a wet, slippery=20 floor. Tickets are coming in faster than they can call them. As each=20 arrives, the cook calls out to the others what's on the ticket so they=20 can do their parts. What kind of salad. Which appetizer - =93app=94 in th= e=20 trade. Soup? Entree? Accompaniments? Special requests or needs? Got=20 it. Next ticket. The language is abrupt and without the social lubricants. No pleases=20 and thank yous in the heat of battle. You won't hear, =93Bob, may I=20 please have two New York strips medium rare, a baby filet medium well=20 and three ribeyes medium. I also need two snapper specials and would=20 appreciate the four pasta carbonaras as soon as you can get to them.=20 Thank you.=94 =93Certainly, Gary. And the grilled portobello mushrooms are nearing=20 completion and should be done in less than five minutes.=94 What you hear is this machine gun shout, =93 two newyorks midrare...=20 baby filet midwell... three ribs mid... two snappers... four=20 carbonaras.=94 Forty-three words compressed to thirteen. And so it=20 goes. =93Gary; ports in 5.=94 Nineteen words to 4. And it shows no sign o= f=20 letting up since there are a bunch of checks hanging up to be done. But in the meantime, a server just rang in three tables within two=20 minutes. Since he couldn't take the orders that fast, it's obvious=20 he's been holding them and is counting on the kitchen to cooperate in=20 getting the earlier tickets done so they could ship them first. He's=20 screaming for aps on a ticket with a time stamp barely two minutes old. It's too, too easy to get caught up in the frenzy of the moment. The=20 biggest trick is to know when to sprint and when to stop to regroup.=20 Taking that small second's pit stop to make sure everything is=20 covered. Doing it all on the fly, the passion carrying the process.=20 Shouts and seeming rudeness the hallmark of the moment. And when it's=20 past, to revert to the normal discourse respectful of the others that=20 made the process a team exercise. The smiles that say =93We did it again = and we did it well.=94 Anyone who belongs in the kitchen will learn those lessons. Everyone=20 else needs to content themselves with enjoying the results of the=20 process. So, this restaurant you want to open... Pastorio |
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lol... that was a great peek into the average restaurant kitchen. I often
wonder what our profession would be like, had the table dote menu survived. Ala carte is just about the only kind of service a restaurant considers any more. "Bob (this one)" > wrote in message ... E F wrote: > > I agree with Peter and George. You have so much to learn before > opening an eating establishment. Good luck to you! > A column I wrote a while back... You don't really want to open a restaurant There is this notion abroad that, because you can cook a good dinner at home for some friends, you can operate a restaurant. Let me say this clearly. Unmistakably. With no room for misinterpretation. You're crazy to even entertain the notion. Seems a bit harsh, wouldn't you say? I mean, we're reasonably bright people and we should be able to deal with something as simple as a restaurant. It isn't rocket science, exactly. How difficult can it be? This from George Orwell in his novel, “Down and Out in Paris and London:” "... would be the fearful noise and disorder during rush hours. It is something so different from the steady work in a shop or a factory that it looks at first sight like mere bad management. But it is really quite unavoidable ... by its nature it comes in rushes and cannot be economized. You cannot, for instance, grill a steak two hours before it is wanted; you have to wait till the last moment, by which time a mass of other work has accumulated, and then do it all together, in frantic haste. The result is that at meal times everyone is doing two men's work, which is impossible without noise and quarreling. Indeed, the quarrels are a necessary part of the process, for the pace would never be kept up if everyone did not accuse everyone else of idling. It was for this reason that during the rush hour the whole staff cursed like demons." Got it? Restaurants are no place for civilized people to work in. Let's paint a small picture here. It's based on the past few weeks in a kitchen where I'm the chef and a couple decades that qualified me to be doing it. (Chef, in classic terminology means he's the guy who runs the kitchen - the head cook, final culinary authority, and the person who manages the operation. Nowadays, it too often means someone who only cooks and, while that's certainly an honorable profession I've spent a good portion of my life doing, it isn't the full meaning.) . In the kitchen, every kitchen, a kind of system develops based on the needs of the kind of business it is. People come to restaurants and clubs to dine. That assumes they want their food soon. Along with everyone else who just walked through the door. The servers cruise serenely through the dining room (the good ones) and attend to the diners while the kitchen staff takes raw and partially-cooked foods to the final state for delivery to customers. Step with me through the swinging doors to the kitchen. The first thing you notice is the noise. Kitchens are loud because of the velocity everyone moves at. Pans bang against stovetops, spoons against pot walls. Dish machines hiss and splash and steam up eyeglasses. Empty sauté pans thrown into the metal bucket for the dishwasher to come pick up. Whisks beating a kind of musical time to the soprano notes from the deep fryer and the kerchunk as the ice machine drops another hundred cubes. There's a rhythm to it all and it's a fast, hard, loud one. Cooks and prep people barking orders to each other. Then the wall of heat hits you. Kitchens are very hot. In the middle of a meal service time, it can get over 100F back there. You stand facing a deep fryer with 50 pounds of fat at 365 degrees Fahrenheit. Next to that is the charbroiler and the surface grates can get up near 800F. The flattop grill is cooler, just 350F. The burners on the stove - 8 of them - for sauté pans to finish the vegetables and entrees. Odd double boilers with hot sauces and broths, steam softly hissing out of the bottom pan. The overhead range hood roars as it tries to suck hot air away from the cook line faster than it can be heated. There's little small talk. People are telling each other what needs to be done and they offer status reports. It doesn't sound polite. Everyone speaks loudly because of the background noise and they usually sound angry because they're almost shouting. If you don't have a well-developed sense of urgency, the whole process looks like anarchy. In fact, it's more like a raucous ballet on a wet, slippery floor. Tickets are coming in faster than they can call them. As each arrives, the cook calls out to the others what's on the ticket so they can do their parts. What kind of salad. Which appetizer - “app” in the trade. Soup? Entree? Accompaniments? Special requests or needs? Got it. Next ticket. The language is abrupt and without the social lubricants. No pleases and thank yous in the heat of battle. You won't hear, “Bob, may I please have two New York strips medium rare, a baby filet medium well and three ribeyes medium. I also need two snapper specials and would appreciate the four pasta carbonaras as soon as you can get to them. Thank you.” “Certainly, Gary. And the grilled portobello mushrooms are nearing completion and should be done in less than five minutes.” What you hear is this machine gun shout, “ two newyorks midrare... baby filet midwell... three ribs mid... two snappers... four carbonaras.” Forty-three words compressed to thirteen. And so it goes. “Gary; ports in 5.” Nineteen words to 4. And it shows no sign of letting up since there are a bunch of checks hanging up to be done. But in the meantime, a server just rang in three tables within two minutes. Since he couldn't take the orders that fast, it's obvious he's been holding them and is counting on the kitchen to cooperate in getting the earlier tickets done so they could ship them first. He's screaming for aps on a ticket with a time stamp barely two minutes old. It's too, too easy to get caught up in the frenzy of the moment. The biggest trick is to know when to sprint and when to stop to regroup. Taking that small second's pit stop to make sure everything is covered. Doing it all on the fly, the passion carrying the process. Shouts and seeming rudeness the hallmark of the moment. And when it's past, to revert to the normal discourse respectful of the others that made the process a team exercise. The smiles that say “We did it again and we did it well.” Anyone who belongs in the kitchen will learn those lessons. Everyone else needs to content themselves with enjoying the results of the process. So, this restaurant you want to open... Pastorio |
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"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message A column I wrote a while back... You don't really want to open a restaurant There is this notion abroad that, because you can cook a good dinner at home for some friends, you can operate a restaurant. Let me say this clearly. Unmistakably. With no room for misinterpretation. You're crazy to even entertain the notion. Bob, I agree 100% and I don't have the knowledge you explained in your column. I've often been told that I should open a restaurant. Phooey, I say. I'm sure others that participate here have been told that also. I have a job, don't need another. (includes benefits, vacation, etc.) I have weekends off. Sometimes we go out to eat on the weekend. I like to cook what I want to cook, when I want to cook. If I was every to open a place, there would be maybe four tables. One seating at 7:00 PM, give or take a half hour, and I'd be open on Mondays through Thursday. Menu choices would read: Today's dinner is ______________ Take it, or leave it. OK, so there is no choice. BTW, reservations a must. Price is cost of food, cost of operation, plus a rather handsome hunk of cash for me. No tipping as I'm charging you plenty already. If I can't make 50% more than I earn now, why bother. Ed http://pages.cthome.net/edhome |
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On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 02:35:30 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" >
wrote: > >"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message > >A column I wrote a while back... > >You don't really want to open a restaurant >There is this notion abroad that, because you can cook a good dinner >at home for some friends, you can operate a restaurant. Let me say >this clearly. Unmistakably. With no room for misinterpretation. You're >crazy to even entertain the notion. > >Bob, I agree 100% and I don't have the knowledge you explained in your >column. I've often been told that I should open a restaurant. Phooey, I >say. I'm sure others that participate here have been told that also. > >I have a job, don't need another. (includes benefits, vacation, etc.) >I have weekends off. Sometimes we go out to eat on the weekend. >I like to cook what I want to cook, when I want to cook. > >If I was every to open a place, there would be maybe four tables. One >seating at 7:00 PM, give or take a half hour, and I'd be open on Mondays >through Thursday. > >Menu choices would read: >Today's dinner is ______________ Take it, or leave it. > >OK, so there is no choice. BTW, reservations a must. Price is cost of >food, cost of operation, plus a rather handsome hunk of cash for me. No >tipping as I'm charging you plenty already. If I can't make 50% more than I >earn now, why bother. >Ed >http://pages.cthome.net/edhome > I've been told I should open a restaurant, too. Yeah, right. I can swim, so I should try out for the US Olympic team. I can drive, so I should go on the NASCAR circuit. On the other hand, D and I share a silly fantasy that we open a Texas style barbecue place in Provence. We even picked out the town a couple of years back. It's ridiculous, I know, but as a fantasy, it does provide us with a happy place to escape to when some yahoo is ya-ya-ing at us too long and we have to appear interested or at least conscious. modom "Dallas is a rich man with a death wish in his eyes." -- Jimmie Dale Gilmore |
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Amen to that...well said! Myself, being a cook for the last 20 years
I can idenify with everything said!. LOL , as I read I can "hear" all the kitchen talk and every move taken. Funny how it all comes together in the end and at the end of he night, you say WOW it's over and can't wait till tommorow night!! Even though I am just a line cook, that does all the ordering and the scheduling and the cooking I love my job....if you are a "cook" just to make a paycheck, you will never be any good at it in my opinion. One funny observation though, in my 14 years at my current job, I have been the only female working in the kitchen. Why is it more women are not doing kitchen work? |
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On 8/21/2004, Bob (this one) wrote, in part:
>A column I wrote a while back... >You don't really want to open a restaurant. I think that anyone who is paying attention and cares would know that running a successful restaurant is serious, hard work. But so are lots of jobs, whether you're an owner or hired help. Personally, I would prefer to inherit several hundred million dollars and sail around in a nice big shiny yacht in the company of supermodels. Maybe OP would prefer that also. But, until that happens, I'd encourage OP to the more libertarian view (not that I am one), i.e., to think it through and give it a shot. He/she takes the same risks everyone else takes with possible outcomes ranging from miserable failure to wild success. |
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>(diane)
> >Myself, being a cook for the last 20 years >I can idenify >One funny observation though, in my 14 years at my >current job, I have been the only female working in the kitchen. > >Why is it more women are not doing kitchen work? It's a holdover from anciant times. The work is difficult/stressful enough, don't need any steenkin' monthlies (literally) and PMS. Really, believe it or not, most cultures wont eat commercial foods prepared by females. ---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- ********* "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." Sheldon ```````````` |
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"diane" > wrote in message ... > Even though I am just a line cook, that does > all the ordering and the scheduling and the cooking I love my job....if > you are a "cook" just to make a paycheck, you will never be any good at > it in my opinion. Not just your opinion, but fact. You must like what you do in any career to be truly good at it. I'm just glad that others like doing certain jobs that I don't like or am not skiilled at so I can reap the benefits. Others, hopefully, are getting the benefit of me doing what I like. > I have been the only female working in the kitchen. Why is > it more women are not doing kitchen work? > They do it my house  |
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On 8/22/2004, penmart01 wrote, in response to Diane who asked
why more women weren't working in restaurant kitchens: >Really, believe it or not, most cultures wont eat commercial foods prepared by females. That's exactly right. My sense is that women in restaurant kitchens are more accepted in Europe (at least Western Europe), North and South America, and cosmopolitan cities outside of those regions, such as Johannesburg, although the image of the patriarchal chef trained in the European tradition remains strong even in those places. And, being accepted is one thing. Being large in numbers is another. Having said that, two things struck me as curious: 1. I was watching the Thailand/Laos Globe Trekker episode last night. Most of the cooks shown, whether in restaurants or as street vendors, were women (which, of course, doesn't mean they are in the majority); 2. I was watching the Bourdain show a few days ago - about Morocco. He insisted that women were the better chefs in Morocco, although that also doesn't mean there are more of them, and I often feel a need to filter through his pouty, pedantic ego. |
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"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message ... > > "Vox Humana" > wrote in message > > > > I agree that you need to know all these things to determine if you will > make > > money. That said, if the going price for a dozen chicken wings in your > area > > is $3, then you could price them at $5 or $9 and not sell any. I think it > > is a matter of reverse engineering. > > > It is if you are going to sell the same chicken wings. If you have a > special recipe and can justify the extra cost and have the clientele that > appreciates what you have, you can get the higher price. I agree and said the same thing a while back. You can add value or perceived value and charge more. |
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"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message ... > > "Vox Humana" > wrote in message > > > > I agree that you need to know all these things to determine if you will > make > > money. That said, if the going price for a dozen chicken wings in your > area > > is $3, then you could price them at $5 or $9 and not sell any. I think it > > is a matter of reverse engineering. > > > It is if you are going to sell the same chicken wings. If you have a > special recipe and can justify the extra cost and have the clientele that > appreciates what you have, you can get the higher price. I agree and said the same thing a while back. You can add value or perceived value and charge more. |
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Kevintsheehy wrote:
> On 8/22/2004, penmart01 wrote, in response to Diane who asked why > more women weren't working in restaurant kitchens: > >> Really, believe it or not, most cultures wont eat commercial >> foods prepared by females. > > That's exactly right. Most restaurant kitchens the world around are staffed by at least as many women as men. It's pretty much the European kitchens and their embodiments elsewhere (typically urban) that have traditionally been the province of men. That's changing rather quickly except in France where it proceeds, but more slowly. Typically, internationally, it's the heavy lifting or most physically demanding labor that gets done by men and everything else by women. And in the west, if you look past the urban, nifty restaurants, it's typically mama-papa operations and it's equal opportunity to work hard. If you look at other than white tablecloth restaurants into *all* US operations that produce food for immediate consumption, you'll find that women outnumber men. Retail sales of food are most often supervised by men but operated by women. Chain restaurants hire anybody they see as trainable irrespective of sex. Pastorio > My sense is that women in restaurant kitchens are more accepted in > Europe (at least Western Europe), North and South America, and > cosmopolitan cities outside of those regions, such as Johannesburg, > although the image of the patriarchal chef trained in the European > tradition remains strong even in those places. And, being accepted > is one thing. Being large in numbers is another. > > Having said that, two things struck me as curious: > > 1. I was watching the Thailand/Laos Globe Trekker episode last > night. Most of the cooks shown, whether in restaurants or as street > vendors, were women (which, of course, doesn't mean they are in the > majority); > > 2. I was watching the Bourdain show a few days ago - about Morocco. > He insisted that women were the better chefs in Morocco, although > that also doesn't mean there are more of them, and I often feel a > need to filter through his pouty, pedantic ego. |
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