In article >,
Richard Periut > wrote:

> I know what you are trying to say. But we use the terms interchangeably.
> It we were to dissect each word we here, we'll be spending useless time.
> Yeah, steam is water vapor that is condensing. OK, I'll agree to that.

Except that I did not say that, so I don't agree. Steam is water in its
gaseous phase; it is dry and invisible. Steam is not used to make
espresso.


> Back to the meat of this post: what comes out of my machine is the
> condensation of water vapor and very hot water. It makes a killer
> expresso. RO water has been very good. I never noticed any difference
> when I used mineral water except for the fact that my heart is content
> in knowing that there are much less toxins in it.

What comes out of your machine is hot water. Not steam. If it's a white
cloud, it's liquid water, however hot it is. I'm not sure what you mean
by using "mineral water."

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In article >,
Richard Periut > wrote:

> I know what you are trying to say. But we use the terms interchangeably.
> It we were to dissect each word we here, we'll be spending useless time.
> Yeah, steam is water vapor that is condensing. OK, I'll agree to that.

Except that I did not say that, so I don't agree. Steam is water in its
gaseous phase; it is dry and invisible. Steam is not used to make
espresso.


> Back to the meat of this post: what comes out of my machine is the
> condensation of water vapor and very hot water. It makes a killer
> expresso. RO water has been very good. I never noticed any difference
> when I used mineral water except for the fact that my heart is content
> in knowing that there are much less toxins in it.

What comes out of your machine is hot water. Not steam. If it's a white
cloud, it's liquid water, however hot it is. I'm not sure what you mean
by using "mineral water."

--
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In article >,
Richard Periut > wrote:

> Water (H2O) is a substance that can have three states. Ice = water.
> Steam = water. liquid water / condensed water = water.
>
> Again, it's semantics. You call it tomato, I call it tomatoe.

Except that water is one of the only, if not the only, substances with a
distinct name for each of its different phases. If someone asks for a
glass of water, and you give them a glass full of ice and no liquid,
they will be annoyed with you, though you are technically correct.
Similarly, if you blast them with steam, you'll be arrested.

And since "tomatoe" is a misspelling, what you call it is incorrect.

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In article >,
Richard Periut > wrote:

> Water (H2O) is a substance that can have three states. Ice = water.
> Steam = water. liquid water / condensed water = water.
>
> Again, it's semantics. You call it tomato, I call it tomatoe.

Except that water is one of the only, if not the only, substances with a
distinct name for each of its different phases. If someone asks for a
glass of water, and you give them a glass full of ice and no liquid,
they will be annoyed with you, though you are technically correct.
Similarly, if you blast them with steam, you'll be arrested.

And since "tomatoe" is a misspelling, what you call it is incorrect.

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BubbaBob wrote:
> Richard Periut > wrote:
>
>
>>Water exists in 3 forms: Solid = ice, water = liquid, vapor =
>>gas. The condensation of this gas is steam which is visible.
>>
>>Rich
>>
>
>
> Wrong again. Water vapor is in the liquid phase. The gaseous phase is
> steam. The recondensate of steam is water vapor or non-vaporous
> water, depending on the adiabatics.
>

From a scientific point of view, that is correct. But the words are
used to denote other meanings. Thus, you'd have to correct every person
that walks this earth and uses the word steam to denote the visible
condensate of steam.

That's a hell of a lot of people.

Rich

--
"Dum Spiro, Spero."

As long as I breath, I hope.

Cicero

BubbaBob wrote:
> Richard Periut > wrote:
>
>
>>Water exists in 3 forms: Solid = ice, water = liquid, vapor =
>>gas. The condensation of this gas is steam which is visible.
>>
>>Rich
>>
>
>
> Wrong again. Water vapor is in the liquid phase. The gaseous phase is
> steam. The recondensate of steam is water vapor or non-vaporous
> water, depending on the adiabatics.
>

From a scientific point of view, that is correct. But the words are
used to denote other meanings. Thus, you'd have to correct every person
that walks this earth and uses the word steam to denote the visible
condensate of steam.

That's a hell of a lot of people.

Rich

--
"Dum Spiro, Spero."

As long as I breath, I hope.

Cicero

Scott wrote:

> In article >,
> Richard Periut > wrote:
>
>
>>Water (H2O) is a substance that can have three states. Ice = water.
>>Steam = water. liquid water / condensed water = water.
>>
>>Again, it's semantics. You call it tomato, I call it tomatoe.
>
>
> Except that water is one of the only, if not the only, substances with a
> distinct name for each of its different phases. If someone asks for a
> glass of water, and you give them a glass full of ice and no liquid,
> they will be annoyed with you, though you are technically correct.
> Similarly, if you blast them with steam, you'll be arrested.
>
> And since "tomatoe" is a misspelling, what you call it is incorrect.
>
Wrong, there is CO2. You can call it dry ice in its solid phase.

Also, tomatoe was a typo. Please don't behead me for this.

Rich

--
"Dum Spiro, Spero."

As long as I breath, I hope.

Cicero

Scott wrote:

> In article >,
> Richard Periut > wrote:
>
>
>>Water (H2O) is a substance that can have three states. Ice = water.
>>Steam = water. liquid water / condensed water = water.
>>
>>Again, it's semantics. You call it tomato, I call it tomatoe.
>
>
> Except that water is one of the only, if not the only, substances with a
> distinct name for each of its different phases. If someone asks for a
> glass of water, and you give them a glass full of ice and no liquid,
> they will be annoyed with you, though you are technically correct.
> Similarly, if you blast them with steam, you'll be arrested.
>
> And since "tomatoe" is a misspelling, what you call it is incorrect.
>
Wrong, there is CO2. You can call it dry ice in its solid phase.

Also, tomatoe was a typo. Please don't behead me for this.

Rich

--
"Dum Spiro, Spero."

As long as I breath, I hope.

Cicero

Scott wrote:

> In article >,
> Richard Periut > wrote:
>
>
>>I know what you are trying to say. But we use the terms interchangeably.
>>It we were to dissect each word we here, we'll be spending useless time.
>>Yeah, steam is water vapor that is condensing. OK, I'll agree to that.
>
>
> Except that I did not say that, so I don't agree. Steam is water in its
> gaseous phase; it is dry and invisible. Steam is not used to make
> espresso.
>
>

OK, now that we have had a scientific polemic here about what steam is;
are you going to join the crusade of making sure the millions upon
millions of English speaking people around the glove never use steam
inappropriately.

It's like I hear you say, there is the sun rising on the East. We all
know that the sun is not really rising. We are the ones that are
rotating on our own axis; thus the phenomena observed. But people
continue to use it because it's a cliche.



>
>>Back to the meat of this post: what comes out of my machine is the
>>condensation of water vapor and very hot water. It makes a killer
>>expresso. RO water has been very good. I never noticed any difference
>>when I used mineral water except for the fact that my heart is content
>>in knowing that there are much less toxins in it.
>
>
> What comes out of your machine is hot water. Not steam. If it's a white
> cloud, it's liquid water, however hot it is. I'm not sure what you mean
> by using "mineral water."
>

Mineral water is what I and most people refer also to as spring water.
Or are you going to get pedantic with that also? Get a friggin life...

Rich
--
"Dum Spiro, Spero."

As long as I breath, I hope.

Cicero

Scott wrote:

> In article >,
> Richard Periut > wrote:
>
>
>>I know what you are trying to say. But we use the terms interchangeably.
>>It we were to dissect each word we here, we'll be spending useless time.
>>Yeah, steam is water vapor that is condensing. OK, I'll agree to that.
>
>
> Except that I did not say that, so I don't agree. Steam is water in its
> gaseous phase; it is dry and invisible. Steam is not used to make
> espresso.
>
>

OK, now that we have had a scientific polemic here about what steam is;
are you going to join the crusade of making sure the millions upon
millions of English speaking people around the glove never use steam
inappropriately.

It's like I hear you say, there is the sun rising on the East. We all
know that the sun is not really rising. We are the ones that are
rotating on our own axis; thus the phenomena observed. But people
continue to use it because it's a cliche.



>
>>Back to the meat of this post: what comes out of my machine is the
>>condensation of water vapor and very hot water. It makes a killer
>>expresso. RO water has been very good. I never noticed any difference
>>when I used mineral water except for the fact that my heart is content
>>in knowing that there are much less toxins in it.
>
>
> What comes out of your machine is hot water. Not steam. If it's a white
> cloud, it's liquid water, however hot it is. I'm not sure what you mean
> by using "mineral water."
>

Mineral water is what I and most people refer also to as spring water.
Or are you going to get pedantic with that also? Get a friggin life...

Rich
--
"Dum Spiro, Spero."

As long as I breath, I hope.

Cicero

Bubbabob wrote:

> Richard Periut > wrote:
>
>
>>And I get a very good crema (head,) with the machine.
>>
>>Rich
>>
>
>
> Only because the machine was designed by someone with a solid understanding
> of both the physics involved and the potential ignorance of their
> customers.
>
> Anyone who doesn't clearly undestand the difference between steam and water
> vapor is a danger to himself and everyone around him every time he enters a
> kitchen.

OK Bubba. Thanks for the interesting polemic.

Rich

--
"Dum Spiro, Spero."

As long as I breath, I hope.

Cicero

Bubbabob wrote:

> Richard Periut > wrote:
>
>
>>And I get a very good crema (head,) with the machine.
>>
>>Rich
>>
>
>
> Only because the machine was designed by someone with a solid understanding
> of both the physics involved and the potential ignorance of their
> customers.
>
> Anyone who doesn't clearly undestand the difference between steam and water
> vapor is a danger to himself and everyone around him every time he enters a
> kitchen.

OK Bubba. Thanks for the interesting polemic.

Rich

--
"Dum Spiro, Spero."

As long as I breath, I hope.

Cicero

In article >,
Richard Periut > wrote:

> OK, now that we have had a scientific polemic here about what steam is;
> are you going to join the crusade of making sure the millions upon
> millions of English speaking people around the glove never use steam
> inappropriately.

Don't be silly. The issue was as regards a specific reference: the
fallacious definition of espresso as "a strong coffee brewed by forcing
steam under pressure through darkly roasted, powdered coffee beans." In
this instance, "steam" has the clear connotation of referring to water
raised above the boiling point. The definition is simply wrong. Water in
its gaseous phase is not forced through ground coffee.



> Mineral water is what I and most people refer also to as spring water.
> Or are you going to get pedantic with that also? Get a friggin life...

You're really one for assumptions, aren't you? I did not say that
mineral water referred to anything specific; I said that I don't know
how YOU use that term. Some people use it to refer to any sort of
bottled water--despite the fact that many bottled waters that call
themselves "mineral water" are basically just filtered tap water. Like
people calling clouds of liquid water, "steam." Other sources insist
that mineral water refers only natural spring or artesian well waters.
An article in The Guardian earlier this year stated that The Radisson
Edwardian Hotels chain, at its Leicester Square hotel, sold filtered tap
water under the title "mineral water."

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In article >,
Richard Periut > wrote:

> OK, now that we have had a scientific polemic here about what steam is;
> are you going to join the crusade of making sure the millions upon
> millions of English speaking people around the glove never use steam
> inappropriately.

Don't be silly. The issue was as regards a specific reference: the
fallacious definition of espresso as "a strong coffee brewed by forcing
steam under pressure through darkly roasted, powdered coffee beans." In
this instance, "steam" has the clear connotation of referring to water
raised above the boiling point. The definition is simply wrong. Water in
its gaseous phase is not forced through ground coffee.



> Mineral water is what I and most people refer also to as spring water.
> Or are you going to get pedantic with that also? Get a friggin life...

You're really one for assumptions, aren't you? I did not say that
mineral water referred to anything specific; I said that I don't know
how YOU use that term. Some people use it to refer to any sort of
bottled water--despite the fact that many bottled waters that call
themselves "mineral water" are basically just filtered tap water. Like
people calling clouds of liquid water, "steam." Other sources insist
that mineral water refers only natural spring or artesian well waters.
An article in The Guardian earlier this year stated that The Radisson
Edwardian Hotels chain, at its Leicester Square hotel, sold filtered tap
water under the title "mineral water."

--
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please mail OT responses only

Scott wrote:
> In article >,
> Richard Periut > wrote:
>
>
>>OK, now that we have had a scientific polemic here about what steam is;
>>are you going to join the crusade of making sure the millions upon
>>millions of English speaking people around the glove never use steam
>>inappropriately.
>
>
> Don't be silly. The issue was as regards a specific reference: the
> fallacious definition of espresso as "a strong coffee brewed by forcing
> steam under pressure through darkly roasted, powdered coffee beans." In
> this instance, "steam" has the clear connotation of referring to water
> raised above the boiling point. The definition is simply wrong. Water in
> its gaseous phase is not forced through ground coffee.
>
>
>
>
>>Mineral water is what I and most people refer also to as spring water.
>>Or are you going to get pedantic with that also? Get a friggin life...
>
>
> You're really one for assumptions, aren't you? I did not say that
> mineral water referred to anything specific; I said that I don't know
> how YOU use that term.


Well duh?? We are talking about brewing coffee. Right? Oh then again,
this drifted from that to the scientific definition (against what a
cliché is,) of what steam was, and in what context I used it.


Some people use it to refer to any sort of
> bottled water--despite the fact that many bottled waters that call
> themselves "mineral water" are basically just filtered tap water. Like
> people calling clouds of liquid water, "steam." Other sources insist
> that mineral water refers only natural spring or artesian well waters.
> An article in The Guardian earlier this year stated that The Radisson
> Edwardian Hotels chain, at its Leicester Square hotel, sold filtered tap
> water under the title "mineral water."
>

I think most people will know what you are talking about, when you
mention mineral water.

So let's see here and take a poll, I may be wrong.

TO the NG in general:

Mineral water is:

A) Water that has spontaneously appeared from a rock.

B) Minerals that you can extract water from.

C) Water that you have always desired because you were not breast fed.

D) Water usually obtained from natural springs, but can also be made my
adding minerals to RO or distilled water (not in its steam state.)

Me thinks D fits the bill.

Rich

--
"Dum Spiro, Spero."

As long as I breath, I hope.

Cicero

Scott wrote:
> In article >,
> Richard Periut > wrote:
>
>
>>OK, now that we have had a scientific polemic here about what steam is;
>>are you going to join the crusade of making sure the millions upon
>>millions of English speaking people around the glove never use steam
>>inappropriately.
>
>
> Don't be silly. The issue was as regards a specific reference: the
> fallacious definition of espresso as "a strong coffee brewed by forcing
> steam under pressure through darkly roasted, powdered coffee beans." In
> this instance, "steam" has the clear connotation of referring to water
> raised above the boiling point. The definition is simply wrong. Water in
> its gaseous phase is not forced through ground coffee.
>
>
>
>
>>Mineral water is what I and most people refer also to as spring water.
>>Or are you going to get pedantic with that also? Get a friggin life...
>
>
> You're really one for assumptions, aren't you? I did not say that
> mineral water referred to anything specific; I said that I don't know
> how YOU use that term.


Well duh?? We are talking about brewing coffee. Right? Oh then again,
this drifted from that to the scientific definition (against what a
cliché is,) of what steam was, and in what context I used it.


Some people use it to refer to any sort of
> bottled water--despite the fact that many bottled waters that call
> themselves "mineral water" are basically just filtered tap water. Like
> people calling clouds of liquid water, "steam." Other sources insist
> that mineral water refers only natural spring or artesian well waters.
> An article in The Guardian earlier this year stated that The Radisson
> Edwardian Hotels chain, at its Leicester Square hotel, sold filtered tap
> water under the title "mineral water."
>

I think most people will know what you are talking about, when you
mention mineral water.

So let's see here and take a poll, I may be wrong.

TO the NG in general:

Mineral water is:

A) Water that has spontaneously appeared from a rock.

B) Minerals that you can extract water from.

C) Water that you have always desired because you were not breast fed.

D) Water usually obtained from natural springs, but can also be made my
adding minerals to RO or distilled water (not in its steam state.)

Me thinks D fits the bill.

Rich

--
"Dum Spiro, Spero."

As long as I breath, I hope.

Cicero

Scott wrote:
> In article >,
> Richard Periut > wrote:
>
>
>>OK, now that we have had a scientific polemic here about what steam is;
>>are you going to join the crusade of making sure the millions upon
>>millions of English speaking people around the glove never use steam
>>inappropriately.
>
>
> Don't be silly. The issue was as regards a specific reference: the
> fallacious definition of espresso as "a strong coffee brewed by forcing
> steam under pressure through darkly roasted, powdered coffee beans." In
> this instance, "steam" has the clear connotation of referring to water
> raised above the boiling point. The definition is simply wrong. Water in
> its gaseous phase is not forced through ground coffee.
>
>
>
>
>>Mineral water is what I and most people refer also to as spring water.
>>Or are you going to get pedantic with that also? Get a friggin life...
>
>
> You're really one for assumptions, aren't you? I did not say that
> mineral water referred to anything specific; I said that I don't know
> how YOU use that term.


Well duh?? We are talking about brewing coffee. Right? Oh then again,
this drifted from that to the scientific definition (against what a
cliché is,) of what steam was, and in what context I used it.


Some people use it to refer to any sort of
> bottled water--despite the fact that many bottled waters that call
> themselves "mineral water" are basically just filtered tap water. Like
> people calling clouds of liquid water, "steam." Other sources insist
> that mineral water refers only natural spring or artesian well waters.
> An article in The Guardian earlier this year stated that The Radisson
> Edwardian Hotels chain, at its Leicester Square hotel, sold filtered tap
> water under the title "mineral water."
>

I think most people will know what you are talking about, when you
mention mineral water.

So let's see here and take a poll, I may be wrong.

TO the NG in general:

Mineral water is:

A) Water that has spontaneously appeared from a rock.

B) Minerals that you can extract water from.

C) Water that you have always desired because you were not breast fed.

D) Water usually obtained from natural springs, but can also be made my
adding minerals to RO or distilled water (not in its steam state.)

Me thinks D fits the bill.

Rich

--
"Dum Spiro, Spero."

As long as I breath, I hope.

Cicero

In article >,
Richard Periut > wrote:

> I think most people will know what you are talking about, when you
> mention mineral water.
>
> So let's see here and take a poll, I may be wrong.
>
> TO the NG in general:
>
> Mineral water is:
>
> A) Water that has spontaneously appeared from a rock.
>
> B) Minerals that you can extract water from.
>
> C) Water that you have always desired because you were not breast fed.
>
> D) Water usually obtained from natural springs, but can also be made my
> adding minerals to RO or distilled water (not in its steam state.)
>
> Me thinks D fits the bill.


-plonk-

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please mail OT responses only

In article >,
Richard Periut > wrote:

> I think most people will know what you are talking about, when you
> mention mineral water.
>
> So let's see here and take a poll, I may be wrong.
>
> TO the NG in general:
>
> Mineral water is:
>
> A) Water that has spontaneously appeared from a rock.
>
> B) Minerals that you can extract water from.
>
> C) Water that you have always desired because you were not breast fed.
>
> D) Water usually obtained from natural springs, but can also be made my
> adding minerals to RO or distilled water (not in its steam state.)
>
> Me thinks D fits the bill.


-plonk-

--
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Scott wrote:

> In article >,
> Richard Periut > wrote:
>
>
>>I think most people will know what you are talking about, when you
>>mention mineral water.
>>
>>So let's see here and take a poll, I may be wrong.
>>
>>TO the NG in general:
>>
>>Mineral water is:
>>
>>A) Water that has spontaneously appeared from a rock.
>>
>>B) Minerals that you can extract water from.
>>
>>C) Water that you have always desired because you were not breast fed.
>>
>>D) Water usually obtained from natural springs, but can also be made my
>>adding minerals to RO or distilled water (not in its steam state.)
>>
>>Me thinks D fits the bill.
>
>
>
> -plonk-
>
Do remember to remove the anal probe the aliens left in your rectum ; )

Rich

--
"Dum Spiro, Spero."

As long as I breath, I hope.

Cicero

Scott wrote:

> In article >,
> Richard Periut > wrote:
>
>
>>I think most people will know what you are talking about, when you
>>mention mineral water.
>>
>>So let's see here and take a poll, I may be wrong.
>>
>>TO the NG in general:
>>
>>Mineral water is:
>>
>>A) Water that has spontaneously appeared from a rock.
>>
>>B) Minerals that you can extract water from.
>>
>>C) Water that you have always desired because you were not breast fed.
>>
>>D) Water usually obtained from natural springs, but can also be made my
>>adding minerals to RO or distilled water (not in its steam state.)
>>
>>Me thinks D fits the bill.
>
>
>
> -plonk-
>
Do remember to remove the anal probe the aliens left in your rectum ; )

Rich

--
"Dum Spiro, Spero."

As long as I breath, I hope.

Cicero