This Mad Cow stuff is scary. I saw that Anderson Copper show
with the girl in the USA with CJD. Sad stuff. Her parents say
the U.S. is wrong to say that beef is safe. You play russian
roulette to eat red meat.
I may give up my five hamburger a day habit!

I thought about it; becoming a vegetarian for six months just to see how much
weight I could lose. I opted for the Atkins diet instead.

Michael O'Connor - Modern Renaissance Man

"The likelihood of one individual being correct increases in a direct
proportion to the intensity with which others try to prove him wrong"
James Mason from the movie "Heaven Can Wait".

In om,
Dwight McNamara > typed:
> This Mad Cow stuff is scary. I saw that Anderson Copper show
> with the girl in the USA with CJD. Sad stuff. Her parents say
> the U.S. is wrong to say that beef is safe. You play russian
> roulette to eat red meat.
> I may give up my five hamburger a day habit!

Nope. I just bought 6 briskets to fill the freezer since they dropped to
$1.15 per pound. I'll probably barbecue one in the middle of the week.

BOB
vegetarian, Indian word for lousy hunter

In article >,
" BOB" > wrote:

> In om,
> Dwight McNamara > typed:
> > This Mad Cow stuff is scary. I saw that Anderson Copper show
> > with the girl in the USA with CJD. Sad stuff. Her parents say
> > the U.S. is wrong to say that beef is safe. You play russian
> > roulette to eat red meat.
> > I may give up my five hamburger a day habit!
>
> Nope. I just bought 6 briskets to fill the freezer since they dropped to
> $1.15 per pound. I'll probably barbecue one in the middle of the week.
>
> BOB
> vegetarian, Indian word for lousy hunter
>
>

I resolve to eat only vegetarians... ;-)

K.

--
>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby >,,<
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...user id=katra

Katra typed:
>
> " BOB" > wrote:
>
>> In om,
>> Dwight McNamara > typed:
>>> This Mad Cow stuff is scary. I saw that Anderson Copper show
>>> with the girl in the USA with CJD. Sad stuff. Her parents say
>>> the U.S. is wrong to say that beef is safe. You play russian
>>> roulette to eat red meat.
>>> I may give up my five hamburger a day habit!
>>
>> Nope. I just bought 6 briskets to fill the freezer since they dropped to
>> $1.15 per pound. I'll probably barbecue one in the middle of the week.
>>
>> BOB
>> vegetarian, Indian word for lousy hunter
>>
>>
>
> I resolve to eat only vegetarians... ;-)
>
> K.

Nah. Too stringy and bitter...
BOB

>
> --
>> ,,<Cat's Haven Hobby >,,<
>
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...user id=katra

In article >,
" BOB" > wrote:

> Katra typed:
> >
> > " BOB" > wrote:
> >
> >> In om,
> >> Dwight McNamara > typed:
> >>> This Mad Cow stuff is scary. I saw that Anderson Copper show
> >>> with the girl in the USA with CJD. Sad stuff. Her parents say
> >>> the U.S. is wrong to say that beef is safe. You play russian
> >>> roulette to eat red meat.
> >>> I may give up my five hamburger a day habit!
> >>
> >> Nope. I just bought 6 briskets to fill the freezer since they dropped to
> >> $1.15 per pound. I'll probably barbecue one in the middle of the week.
> >>
> >> BOB
> >> vegetarian, Indian word for lousy hunter
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I resolve to eat only vegetarians... ;-)
> >
> > K.
>
> Nah. Too stringy and bitter...
> BOB
>

ROFL!
Thought that was what pressure cookers and crock pots were for? ;-D

K.

--
>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby >,,<
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...user id=katra

"Katra" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> " BOB" > wrote:
>
> > In om,
> > Dwight McNamara > typed:
> > > This Mad Cow stuff is scary. I saw that Anderson Copper show
> > > with the girl in the USA with CJD. Sad stuff. Her parents say
> > > the U.S. is wrong to say that beef is safe. You play russian
> > > roulette to eat red meat.
> > > I may give up my five hamburger a day habit!
> >
> > Nope. I just bought 6 briskets to fill the freezer since they dropped
to
> > $1.15 per pound. I'll probably barbecue one in the middle of the week.
> >
> > BOB
> > vegetarian, Indian word for lousy hunter
> >
> >
>
> I resolve to eat only vegetarians... ;-)

That's what we were eating before they decided it was financially
advantageous to make cows cannibals by feeding them their ground-up
deceased/diseased relatives. Maybe we should only eat feed company
managers.

Gabby

On 4 Jan 2004 19:20:08 -0800, (Dwight
McNamara) wrote:

>This Mad Cow stuff is scary. I saw that Anderson Copper show
>with the girl in the USA with CJD. Sad stuff. Her parents say
>the U.S. is wrong to say that beef is safe. You play russian
>roulette to eat red meat.

Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, the type related to BSE in cows, is
indeed horrifying. However, from 1983 to 2003, approx.180,000 cases of
BSE were found in the UK and estimates of human deaths are under 150.

Russian roulette with a six-shooter gives you a 1 in six chance of
being shot. The chances of contracting vCJD from eating beef are more
like 1 in 1,000,000. 1-yr odds for dying as a car occupant are around
1 in 18,000.

Not that this is a recommendation against vegetarianism. Or traveling
in cars or, indeed, walking out of your house in the morning and
falling on the steps (1 in 210,000).

I believe I may try to rely more on vegetarian meals mostly because
I'm perfectly *rotten* at cooking many meat things.

Katra typed:
>
> " BOB" > wrote:
>
>> Katra typed:
>>>
>>> " BOB" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nope. I just bought 6 briskets to fill the freezer since they dropped
to
>>>> $1.15 per pound. I'll probably barbecue one in the middle of the week.
>>>>
>>>> BOB
>>>> vegetarian, Indian word for lousy hunter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I resolve to eat only vegetarians... ;-)
>>>
>>> K.
>>
>> Nah. Too stringy and bitter...
>> BOB
>>
>
> ROFL!
> Thought that was what pressure cookers and crock pots were for? ;-D
>
> K.
>
Pressure cooker won't get rid of the "bitter"

also here in the u.k. just after the "Height" of all the cjd.it was
reported that a lot of people who were thought to be suffering from
altzeimers in the u.k.( especially the ones who were considered
rather young to have it)could have the variant as the symptoms are
similar.not heard much about it for a couple of years though.

Dwight McNamara > wrote:
> This Mad Cow stuff is scary. I saw that Anderson Copper show
> with the girl in the USA with CJD. Sad stuff. Her parents say
> the U.S. is wrong to say that beef is safe. You play russian
> roulette to eat red meat.

That's silly. I can't believe the amount of mathematical
illiteracy in the United States. The odds of getting sick from
mad cow are so ridiculously slim that I doubt my calculator
has enough zeroes to display the result.

Don't forget about the 600+ people who were stricken with
Hepetitis A a few months ago after eating green onions at
a restaurant in Pennsylvania. That's 600+ more people than
those who have been sickened by mad cow disease.

There are some good reasons to go vegetarian, but hysteria
is not one of them.

wrote:

> That's silly. I can't believe the amount of mathematical
> illiteracy in the United States. The odds of getting sick from
> mad cow are so ridiculously slim that I doubt my calculator
> has enough zeroes to display the result.

fwiw, i happened to get this book at the library:

http://www.randomhouse.com/broadway/...sbn=0767909992

it's good even if you've had prior exposure to the stuff, interesting notes
on what fund managers aren't telling us, etc.

it ends on education, basically that quantitative skills aren't taught, but
(sadly) things that should come before quantitative skills (like basic math)
aren't taught either. what can ya do?

(i probably do a bad job of summarizing in those few lines. good little
book)

Frogleg > wrote in message >. ..
> On 4 Jan 2004 19:20:08 -0800, (Dwight
> McNamara) wrote:
>
> >This Mad Cow stuff is scary. I saw that Anderson Copper show
> >with the girl in the USA with CJD. Sad stuff. Her parents say
> >the U.S. is wrong to say that beef is safe. You play russian
> >roulette to eat red meat.
>
> Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, the type related to BSE in cows, is
> indeed horrifying. However, from 1983 to 2003, approx.180,000 cases of
> BSE were found in the UK and estimates of human deaths are under 150.
>
> Russian roulette with a six-shooter gives you a 1 in six chance of
> being shot. The chances of contracting vCJD from eating beef are more
> like 1 in 1,000,000. 1-yr odds for dying as a car occupant are around
> 1 in 18,000.
>
> Not that this is a recommendation against vegetarianism. Or traveling
> in cars or, indeed, walking out of your house in the morning and
> falling on the steps (1 in 210,000).
>
> I believe I may try to rely more on vegetarian meals mostly because
> I'm perfectly *rotten* at cooking many meat things.

very good info...thanks

On 5 Jan 2004 18:21:30 -0800, (Dwight
McNamara) wrote:

>Frogleg > wrote in message >. ..
>> On 4 Jan 2004 19:20:08 -0800, (Dwight
>> McNamara) wrote:
>>
>> >This Mad Cow stuff is scary. I saw that Anderson Copper show
>> >with the girl in the USA with CJD. Sad stuff. Her parents say
>> >the U.S. is wrong to say that beef is safe. You play russian
>> >roulette to eat red meat.
>>
>> Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, the type related to BSE in cows, is
>> indeed horrifying. However, from 1983 to 2003, approx.180,000 cases of
>> BSE were found in the UK and estimates of human deaths are under 150.
>>
>> Russian roulette with a six-shooter gives you a 1 in six chance of
>> being shot. The chances of contracting vCJD from eating beef are more
>> like 1 in 1,000,000. 1-yr odds for dying as a car occupant are around
>> 1 in 18,000.
>>
>> Not that this is a recommendation against vegetarianism. Or traveling
>> in cars or, indeed, walking out of your house in the morning and
>> falling on the steps (1 in 210,000).
>>
>> I believe I may try to rely more on vegetarian meals mostly because
>> I'm perfectly *rotten* at cooking many meat things.
>
>very good info...thanks

An excellent numerical perspective on things.

boron

Frogleg > wrote:
>On 4 Jan 2004 19:20:08 -0800, (Dwight
>McNamara) wrote:
>
>>This Mad Cow stuff is scary. I saw that Anderson Copper show
>>with the girl in the USA with CJD. Sad stuff. Her parents say
>>the U.S. is wrong to say that beef is safe. You play russian
>>roulette to eat red meat.
>
>Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, the type related to BSE in cows, is
>indeed horrifying. However, from 1983 to 2003, approx.180,000 cases of
>BSE were found in the UK and estimates of human deaths are under 150.

I don't think that living with VCJ would be any better
than dying from it.

--Blair
"Someone needs to hang a few
cattle-feed manufacturers."

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 03:22:50 GMT, Blair P. Houghton > wrote:

>Frogleg > wrote:

>>Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, the type related to BSE in cows, is
>>indeed horrifying. However, from 1983 to 2003, approx.180,000 cases of
>>BSE were found in the UK and estimates of human deaths are under 150.
>
>I don't think that living with VCJ would be any better
>than dying from it.


Sorry. I realized after I posted that I wasn't quite clear. The
180,000 figure was for BSE in cows; the 150 human deaths (or
infections -- wasn't too easy to distinguish) attributed to vCJD were
under 150. That is, there was a lot of BSE and not much vCJD.

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 02:13:29 GMT, "Socks" > wrote:

wrote:
>
>> That's silly. I can't believe the amount of mathematical
>> illiteracy in the United States. The odds of getting sick from
>> mad cow are so ridiculously slim that I doubt my calculator
>> has enough zeroes to display the result.
>
>fwiw, i happened to get this book at the library:
>
>http://www.randomhouse.com/broadway/...sbn=0767909992
>
>it's good even if you've had prior exposure to the stuff, interesting notes
>on what fund managers aren't telling us, etc.
>
>it ends on education, basically that quantitative skills aren't taught, but
>(sadly) things that should come before quantitative skills (like basic math)
>aren't taught either. what can ya do?

"One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic."
--Joseph Stalin

Locally, 2 people have died from the flu this season (one already in
poor health), both stories covered extensively by local media. Also
widely reported was the shortage of flu vaccine, and video of people
waiting in line for hours to get shots. What was barely mentioned was
the approx. 36,000 deaths from flu-related causes each year in the US.

People just don't pay attention to numbers. I heard more than one
report that the price farmers were receiving for beef had "plummeted
$1 to $2 per pound" after a mad cow was discovered in Washington. I
can't find current figures, curse it, but I'm pretty sure the price of
beef on the hoof is somewhere between $0.75 and $1.25/lb. Surely
cattle producers aren't paying slaughterhouses a $0.75/lb premium to
take their cows.

It's not just that so many can't add or multiply, it's that they have
no conception of numerical quantities at all. Newsies reglarly report
with no embarrassment that a new bridge "may cost as much as $200,"
because that's what their script looks like when someone leaves off 6
zeroes. How I do delight in the very few who read and then say, "This
can't be right. It must be...."

Frogleg,

Would you contact me offlist? (My address is unmunged.) I agree with
all you've said about number illiteracy and want help in finding sources
for statistics I find unbelievable. No, that's wrong. I need
BELIEVABLE sources to correct the unbelievable. Specifically, I'm
having the worst time finding anything unbiased on the number of women
who have had abortions and later have fertility troubles. I'm also
interested in the number of children who are sexually abused. The
statistics I read are wild.

--Lia

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 12:21:03 GMT, Frogleg
> wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 03:22:50 GMT, Blair P. Houghton > wrote:
>
> >Frogleg > wrote:
>
> >>Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, the type related to BSE in cows, is
> >>indeed horrifying. However, from 1983 to 2003, approx.180,000 cases of
> >>BSE were found in the UK and estimates of human deaths are under 150.
> >
> >I don't think that living with VCJ would be any better
> >than dying from it.
>
>
> Sorry. I realized after I posted that I wasn't quite clear. The
> 180,000 figure was for BSE in cows; the 150 human deaths (or
> infections -- wasn't too easy to distinguish) attributed to vCJD were
> under 150. That is, there was a lot of BSE and not much vCJD.

So far, my family isn't off beef - we're all going to have
roast beef and yorkshire pudding this coming Sunday. I
can't say we're huge meat eaters either - but when we want
meat, we indulge in it.

My husband and I had dinner tonight at a favorite burger
place (not a fast food joint) and noticed that it was
unusually empty. I can't tell you if that was because of
the mad cow scare or because it's January - which is the
time we'd normally expect people not to be eating out anyway
(due to excess spending during the holiday season and/or a
new year's resolution to diet).


Practice safe eating - always use condiments

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 13:02:04 GMT, Frogleg
> wrote:

> It's not just that so many can't add or multiply, it's that they have
> no conception of numerical quantities at all. Newsies reglarly report
> with no embarrassment that a new bridge "may cost as much as $200,"
> because that's what their script looks like when someone leaves off 6
> zeroes. How I do delight in the very few who read and then say, "This
> can't be right. It must be...."

Multiplying has nothing to do with the number of zeros after
a number. Either you can read it or you can't. Why make
them guess? I'll tell you why, it's because the Great
Unwashed will ask pointed questions when they are given
honest numbers.



Practice safe eating - always use condiments

Socks > wrote:

> it ends on education, basically that quantitative skills aren't taught, but
> (sadly) things that should come before quantitative skills (like basic math)
> aren't taught either. what can ya do?

If you found that book interesting, you might want to read the books
by Johan Alan Paulos, a professor of math and logic at Temple University.
Paulos has gained quite a claim to fame on this subject, to the point
where he had a weekly column on ABC's online web site and appeared on
David Letterman's show a couple of times. Paulos' book Inumeracy is
very insightful.

(Dwight McNamara) wrote in message . com>...
> This Mad Cow stuff is scary. I saw that Anderson Copper show
> with the girl in the USA with CJD. Sad stuff. Her parents say
> the U.S. is wrong to say that beef is safe. You play russian
> roulette to eat red meat.
> I may give up my five hamburger a day habit!

I'm hardly living in fear of Mad Cow disease, but I nevertheless plan
to eat a bit less beef, for a while. But there's still lamb, pork,
chicken and fish to keep me happy. I simply do not have a vegetarian
soul, and I love the taste of meat too much. Yes, I know, it's
probably better for one's health and for the health of the planet to
become a vegetarian, and I'm not about to urge any vegetarians to eat
meat. But there's no chance of my becoming one. (It could be that I'm
still rebelling against my dad who turned into a completely obnoxious,
self-righteous proselityzer when he experimented with vegetarianism
back in the 1970's.)

Melissa

Frogleg wrote:
>
> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 02:13:29 GMT, "Socks" > wrote:
>
> wrote:
> >
> >> That's silly. I can't believe the amount of mathematical
> >> illiteracy

Stan, wouldn't that be innumeracy? :-)

Kate

--
Kate Connally
“If I were as old as I feel, I’d be dead already.”
Goldfish: “The wholesome snack that smiles back,
Until you bite their heads off.”
What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all about?

wrote:
> Socks > wrote:
>
>> it ends on education, basically that quantitative skills aren't
>> taught, but (sadly) things that should come before quantitative
>> skills (like basic math) aren't taught either. what can ya do?
>
> If you found that book interesting, you might want to read the books
> by Johan Alan Paulos, a professor of math and logic at Temple
> University. Paulos has gained quite a claim to fame on this subject,
> to the point
> where he had a weekly column on ABC's online web site and appeared on
> David Letterman's show a couple of times. Paulos' book Inumeracy is
> very insightful.

i picked up his "mathmatician reads the newspaper" from the library, barely
started. i wanted to get the later wallsteet one, but someone else has it.

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Melissa Houle wrote:

> (Dwight McNamara) wrote in message . com>...
> > This Mad Cow stuff is scary. I saw that Anderson Copper show
> > with the girl in the USA with CJD. Sad stuff. Her parents say
> > the U.S. is wrong to say that beef is safe. You play russian
> > roulette to eat red meat.
> > I may give up my five hamburger a day habit!
>
> I'm hardly living in fear of Mad Cow disease, but I nevertheless plan
> to eat a bit less beef, for a while. But there's still lamb, pork,
> chicken and fish to keep me happy. I simply do not have a vegetarian
> soul, and I love the taste of meat too much. Yes, I know, it's
> probably better for one's health and for the health of the planet to
> become a vegetarian, and I'm not about to urge any vegetarians to eat
> meat. But there's no chance of my becoming one. (It could be that I'm
> still rebelling against my dad who turned into a completely obnoxious,
> self-righteous proselityzer when he experimented with vegetarianism
> back in the 1970's.)

If you want to be truly obnoxious to vegetarians (something, I for one,
applaud, as long as it is done delicately)... try explaining to them why
sugar isn't vegetarian (they put bone ash in it as an anti-coagulant).
Most of the idiotic vegetarians will go "eek!"... it's quite fun.

And the more serious ones will say, "yeah, so what?" and you'll know that
they're actually a competent vegetarian (and thus worthy of a good deal
more respect than the suneaters).

Lena

"Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Melissa Houle wrote:
>
> > (Dwight McNamara) wrote in message
. com>...
> > > This Mad Cow stuff is scary. I saw that Anderson Copper show
> > > with the girl in the USA with CJD. Sad stuff. Her parents say
> > > the U.S. is wrong to say that beef is safe. You play russian
> > > roulette to eat red meat.
> > > I may give up my five hamburger a day habit!
> >
> > I'm hardly living in fear of Mad Cow disease, but I nevertheless plan
> > to eat a bit less beef, for a while. But there's still lamb, pork,
> > chicken and fish to keep me happy. I simply do not have a vegetarian
> > soul, and I love the taste of meat too much. Yes, I know, it's
> > probably better for one's health and for the health of the planet to
> > become a vegetarian, and I'm not about to urge any vegetarians to eat
> > meat. But there's no chance of my becoming one. (It could be that I'm
> > still rebelling against my dad who turned into a completely obnoxious,
> > self-righteous proselityzer when he experimented with vegetarianism
> > back in the 1970's.)
>
> If you want to be truly obnoxious to vegetarians (something, I for one,
> applaud, as long as it is done delicately)... try explaining to them why
> sugar isn't vegetarian (they put bone ash in it as an anti-coagulant).
> Most of the idiotic vegetarians will go "eek!"... it's quite fun.
>
> And the more serious ones will say, "yeah, so what?" and you'll know that
> they're actually a competent vegetarian (and thus worthy of a good deal
> more respect than the suneaters).
>
> Lena

Do you have any evidence to back up this notion? I have never seen any sugar
that lists bone ash as an ingredient - some list cornstarch but that's all.
My guess is that a truly competent vegetarian will simply tell you that you
are wrong.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

Peter Aitken wrote:
> Do you have any evidence to back up this notion? I have never seen
> any sugar that lists bone ash as an ingredient - some list cornstarch
> but that's all. My guess is that a truly competent vegetarian will
> simply tell you that you are wrong.

i was curious enough to google ... this seems to say it is part of the
process, and maybe not an ingredient:

http://www.ebonex.com/b_cha.htm

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Peter Aitken wrote:

> "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Melissa Houle wrote:
> >
> > > (Dwight McNamara) wrote in message
> . com>...
> > > > This Mad Cow stuff is scary. I saw that Anderson Copper show
> > > > with the girl in the USA with CJD. Sad stuff. Her parents say
> > > > the U.S. is wrong to say that beef is safe. You play russian
> > > > roulette to eat red meat.
> > > > I may give up my five hamburger a day habit!
> > >
> > > I'm hardly living in fear of Mad Cow disease, but I nevertheless plan
> > > to eat a bit less beef, for a while. But there's still lamb, pork,
> > > chicken and fish to keep me happy. I simply do not have a vegetarian
> > > soul, and I love the taste of meat too much. Yes, I know, it's
> > > probably better for one's health and for the health of the planet to
> > > become a vegetarian, and I'm not about to urge any vegetarians to eat
> > > meat. But there's no chance of my becoming one. (It could be that I'm
> > > still rebelling against my dad who turned into a completely obnoxious,
> > > self-righteous proselityzer when he experimented with vegetarianism
> > > back in the 1970's.)
> >
> > If you want to be truly obnoxious to vegetarians (something, I for one,
> > applaud, as long as it is done delicately)... try explaining to them why
> > sugar isn't vegetarian (they put bone ash in it as an anti-coagulant).
> > Most of the idiotic vegetarians will go "eek!"... it's quite fun.
> >
> > And the more serious ones will say, "yeah, so what?" and you'll know that
> > they're actually a competent vegetarian (and thus worthy of a good deal
> > more respect than the suneaters).
> >
> > Lena
>
> Do you have any evidence to back up this notion? I have never seen any sugar
> that lists bone ash as an ingredient - some list cornstarch but that's all.
> My guess is that a truly competent vegetarian will simply tell you that you
> are wrong.

....i've never seen cornstarch listed. must look at organic sugar
sometime.

You should look more closely... look for something with calcium in it--of
course they aren't going to just tell you about bone ash.

http://www.ebonex.com/hist.htm

http://www.ultimatelife.com/CatSweet.htm

http://members.cox.net/pnienstedt/processed_sugar.htm

http://www.orahsaddiqim.org/Kashrut/..._Sucrose.shtml

of course, if you've ever distilled sugar, you'll know immediately that it
has bone ash in it, as the crystallization properties of the two are quite
different (and the bone ash needs to be filtered out, before you get good
sugar)

Lena

On 7 Jan 2004 09:42:19 -0800, (Melissa Houle)
wrote:

>I'm hardly living in fear of Mad Cow disease, but I nevertheless plan
>to eat a bit less beef, for a while.

Because of mad cow? Why would "a bit less" be safer (except
statistically) than a bunch? If one is concerned about BSE, surely
total abstinance is the solution. If not, look for specials on beef in
the grocery store and chow down. :-)

"Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
...
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Peter Aitken wrote:
>
> > "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >

<snipped>

> > >
> > > If you want to be truly obnoxious to vegetarians (something, I for
one,
> > > applaud, as long as it is done delicately)... try explaining to them
why
> > > sugar isn't vegetarian (they put bone ash in it as an anti-coagulant).
> > > Most of the idiotic vegetarians will go "eek!"... it's quite fun.
> > >
> > > And the more serious ones will say, "yeah, so what?" and you'll know
that
> > > they're actually a competent vegetarian (and thus worthy of a good
deal
> > > more respect than the suneaters).
> > >
> > > Lena
> >
> > Do you have any evidence to back up this notion? I have never seen any
sugar
> > that lists bone ash as an ingredient - some list cornstarch but that's
all.
> > My guess is that a truly competent vegetarian will simply tell you that
you
> > are wrong.
>
> ...i've never seen cornstarch listed. must look at organic sugar
> sometime.
>
> You should look more closely... look for something with calcium in it--of
> course they aren't going to just tell you about bone ash.
>
> http://www.ebonex.com/hist.htm
>
> http://www.ultimatelife.com/CatSweet.htm
>
> http://members.cox.net/pnienstedt/processed_sugar.htm
>
> http://www.orahsaddiqim.org/Kashrut/..._Sucrose.shtml
>
> of course, if you've ever distilled sugar, you'll know immediately that it
> has bone ash in it, as the crystallization properties of the two are quite
> different (and the bone ash needs to be filtered out, before you get good
> sugar)
>
> Lena

Hmm, let's see. Your first cite refers to using bone ash in making sugar in
the 1700s and 1800s. Hardly relevant to sugar today.

Your second cite is a web page for a company that's trying to scare people
away from using sugar so it is hardly a good source. Even if what they say
is true, it says that the ash is used in the production process and *not*
that it is present in the final product, which is what you are claiming. The
same comments apply to your third cite.

Your fourth cite says explicitly that refined sugar does not contain any
bone even when bone ash is used in the process, and also that some sugar is
produced using processes that *do not* use bone ash.

Might I suggest that you actually read and understand something before you
cite it to support your position? This is the first time I have seen someone
present citations that prove themselves wrong - maybe there's a medal for
it!


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 12:48:16 -0500, Kate Connally >
wrote:

>Frogleg wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 02:13:29 GMT, "Socks" > wrote:
>>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> That's silly. I can't believe the amount of mathematical
>> >> illiteracy
>
>Stan, wouldn't that be innumeracy? :-)

I'm sure there's a proper term for it, but the point is plain.

This morning's NBC news dawn program mentioned (twice) the new Calif.
governor's insistance that a "$15 million" bond issue be passed. Why
couldn't he just make up that amount himself? Because the bond issue
is for $15 *billion*, that's why. How many even noticed the number
amount?

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Peter Aitken wrote:

> "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Peter Aitken wrote:
> >
> > > "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
>
> <snipped>
>
> > > >
> > > > If you want to be truly obnoxious to vegetarians (something, I for
> one,
> > > > applaud, as long as it is done delicately)... try explaining to them
> why
> > > > sugar isn't vegetarian (they put bone ash in it as an anti-coagulant).
> > > > Most of the idiotic vegetarians will go "eek!"... it's quite fun.
> > > >
> > > > And the more serious ones will say, "yeah, so what?" and you'll know
> that
> > > > they're actually a competent vegetarian (and thus worthy of a good
> deal
> > > > more respect than the suneaters).
> > > >
> > > > Lena
> > >
> > > Do you have any evidence to back up this notion? I have never seen any
> sugar
> > > that lists bone ash as an ingredient - some list cornstarch but that's
> all.
> > > My guess is that a truly competent vegetarian will simply tell you that
> you
> > > are wrong.
> >
> > ...i've never seen cornstarch listed. must look at organic sugar
> > sometime.
> >
> > You should look more closely... look for something with calcium in it--of
> > course they aren't going to just tell you about bone ash.
> >
> > http://www.ebonex.com/hist.htm
> >
> > http://www.ultimatelife.com/CatSweet.htm
> >
> > http://members.cox.net/pnienstedt/processed_sugar.htm
> >
> > http://www.orahsaddiqim.org/Kashrut/..._Sucrose.shtml
> >
> > of course, if you've ever distilled sugar, you'll know immediately that it
> > has bone ash in it, as the crystallization properties of the two are quite
> > different (and the bone ash needs to be filtered out, before you get good
> > sugar)
> >
> > Lena
>
> Hmm, let's see. Your first cite refers to using bone ash in making sugar in
> the 1700s and 1800s. Hardly relevant to sugar today.

rather stupid of you to try to discredit something added for historical
background... fits in with a mindset of "she is wrong... everything she
said must not be credible."

> Your second cite is a web page for a company that's trying to scare people
> away from using sugar so it is hardly a good source. Even if what they say
> is true, it says that the ash is used in the production process and *not*
> that it is present in the final product, which is what you are claiming. The
> same comments apply to your third cite.

Indeed. I will, if you like, cite further sources saying that bone ash is
in fact present in the final product.

Lena

"Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Peter Aitken wrote:
>
> > "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Peter Aitken wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> >
> > <snipped>
> >
> > > > >
> > > > > If you want to be truly obnoxious to vegetarians (something, I for
> > one,
> > > > > applaud, as long as it is done delicately)... try explaining to
them
> > why
> > > > > sugar isn't vegetarian (they put bone ash in it as an
anti-coagulant).
> > > > > Most of the idiotic vegetarians will go "eek!"... it's quite fun.
> > > > >
> > > > > And the more serious ones will say, "yeah, so what?" and you'll
know
> > that
> > > > > they're actually a competent vegetarian (and thus worthy of a good
> > deal
> > > > > more respect than the suneaters).
> > > > >
> > > > > Lena
> > > >
> > > > Do you have any evidence to back up this notion? I have never seen
any
> > sugar
> > > > that lists bone ash as an ingredient - some list cornstarch but
that's
> > all.
> > > > My guess is that a truly competent vegetarian will simply tell you
that
> > you
> > > > are wrong.
> > >
> > > ...i've never seen cornstarch listed. must look at organic sugar
> > > sometime.
> > >
> > > You should look more closely... look for something with calcium in
it--of
> > > course they aren't going to just tell you about bone ash.
> > >
> > > http://www.ebonex.com/hist.htm
> > >
> > > http://www.ultimatelife.com/CatSweet.htm
> > >
> > > http://members.cox.net/pnienstedt/processed_sugar.htm
> > >
> > > http://www.orahsaddiqim.org/Kashrut/..._Sucrose.shtml
> > >
> > > of course, if you've ever distilled sugar, you'll know immediately
that it
> > > has bone ash in it, as the crystallization properties of the two are
quite
> > > different (and the bone ash needs to be filtered out, before you get
good
> > > sugar)
> > >
> > > Lena
> >
> > Hmm, let's see. Your first cite refers to using bone ash in making sugar
in
> > the 1700s and 1800s. Hardly relevant to sugar today.
>
> rather stupid of you to try to discredit something added for historical
> background... fits in with a mindset of "she is wrong... everything she
> said must not be credible."

> > Your second cite is a web page for a company that's trying to scare
people
> > away from using sugar so it is hardly a good source. Even if what they
say
> > is true, it says that the ash is used in the production process and
*not*
> > that it is present in the final product, which is what you are claiming.
The
> > same comments apply to your third cite.
>
> Indeed. I will, if you like, cite further sources saying that bone ash is
> in fact present in the final product.
>
> Lena
>

You are going to provide new cites that prove that your original cites -
specifically the fourth one that says there is no bone in the finshed
product - are wrong? Sure, go right ahead. But why should we believe your
new cites over your old cites? It is telling that in your reply you make a
point of ignoring your 4th cite which specifically and directly contradicts
your claim that sugar contains bone ash. Care to explain why?


--
Peter Aitken - who is yet again amazed at the effort people will expend to
avoid learning something.

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

In article m>, "Peter
Aitken" > wrote:

> "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Peter Aitken wrote:


> > > Do you have any evidence to back up this notion? I have never seen any
> sugar
> > > that lists bone ash as an ingredient - some list cornstarch but that's
> all.
> > > My guess is that a truly competent vegetarian will simply tell you that
> you
> > > are wrong.


> > http://www.ebonex.com/hist.htm


> > http://www.ultimatelife.com/CatSweet.htm


> > http://members.cox.net/pnienstedt/processed_sugar.htm


> > http://www.orahsaddiqim.org/Kashrut/..._Sucrose.shtml


> > of course, if you've ever distilled sugar, you'll know immediately that it
> > has bone ash in it, as the crystallization properties of the two are quite
> > different (and the bone ash needs to be filtered out, before you get good


> Hmm, let's see. Your first cite refers to using bone ash in making sugar in
> the 1700s and 1800s. Hardly relevant to sugar today.
>
> Your second cite is a web page for a company that's trying to scare people
> away from using sugar so it is hardly a good source. Even if what they say
> is true, it says that the ash is used in the production process and *not*
> that it is present in the final product, which is what you are claiming. The
> same comments apply to your third cite.
>
> Your fourth cite says explicitly that refined sugar does not contain any
> bone even when bone ash is used in the process, and also that some sugar is
> produced using processes that *do not* use bone ash.
>
> Might I suggest that you actually read and understand something before you
> cite it to support your position? This is the first time I have seen someone
> present citations that prove themselves wrong - maybe there's a medal for
> it!


Sounds like you stuck your foot in your mouth and you'd rather gag on it
than admit that you were wrong.


Vegetarians follow different sets of rules, but many not only don't eat
foods containing animal products, but also won't eat foods where animal
products were used in the production of the food.


Fortunately, I'm not a vegetarian. Where would you (the generic
vegetarian you) draw the line? Soil has decomposed animals in it. Soil
is used to grow plants. Are they non-vegetarian plants because animal
products were used to grow them?

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

"Dan Abel" > wrote in message
...
> In article m>, "Peter
> Aitken" > wrote:
>
> > "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Peter Aitken wrote:
>
>
> > > > Do you have any evidence to back up this notion? I have never seen
any
> > sugar
> > > > that lists bone ash as an ingredient - some list cornstarch but
that's
> > all.
> > > > My guess is that a truly competent vegetarian will simply tell you
that
> > you
> > > > are wrong.
>
>
> > > http://www.ebonex.com/hist.htm
>
>
> > > http://www.ultimatelife.com/CatSweet.htm
>
>
> > > http://members.cox.net/pnienstedt/processed_sugar.htm
>
>
> > > http://www.orahsaddiqim.org/Kashrut/..._Sucrose.shtml
>
>
> > > of course, if you've ever distilled sugar, you'll know immediately
that it
> > > has bone ash in it, as the crystallization properties of the two are
quite
> > > different (and the bone ash needs to be filtered out, before you get
good
>
>
> > Hmm, let's see. Your first cite refers to using bone ash in making sugar
in
> > the 1700s and 1800s. Hardly relevant to sugar today.
> >
> > Your second cite is a web page for a company that's trying to scare
people
> > away from using sugar so it is hardly a good source. Even if what they
say
> > is true, it says that the ash is used in the production process and
*not*
> > that it is present in the final product, which is what you are claiming.
The
> > same comments apply to your third cite.
> >
> > Your fourth cite says explicitly that refined sugar does not contain any
> > bone even when bone ash is used in the process, and also that some sugar
is
> > produced using processes that *do not* use bone ash.
> >
> > Might I suggest that you actually read and understand something before
you
> > cite it to support your position? This is the first time I have seen
someone
> > present citations that prove themselves wrong - maybe there's a medal
for
> > it!
>
>
> Sounds like you stuck your foot in your mouth and you'd rather gag on it
> than admit that you were wrong.
>
>
> Vegetarians follow different sets of rules, but many not only don't eat
> foods containing animal products, but also won't eat foods where animal
> products were used in the production of the food.
>
>
> Fortunately, I'm not a vegetarian. Where would you (the generic
> vegetarian you) draw the line? Soil has decomposed animals in it. Soil
> is used to grow plants. Are they non-vegetarian plants because animal
> products were used to grow them?
>
> --

Don't be an idiot. This has nothing at all to do with what vegetarians will
and will not eat. It is about the specific claim Lena made that sugar
contains bone ash - that's all. Get it?


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Peter Aitken wrote:

> "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Peter Aitken wrote:
> >
> > > "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Peter Aitken wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > <snipped>
> > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you want to be truly obnoxious to vegetarians (something, I for
> > > one,
> > > > > > applaud, as long as it is done delicately)... try explaining to
> them
> > > why
> > > > > > sugar isn't vegetarian (they put bone ash in it as an
> anti-coagulant).
> > > > > > Most of the idiotic vegetarians will go "eek!"... it's quite fun.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And the more serious ones will say, "yeah, so what?" and you'll
> know
> > > that
> > > > > > they're actually a competent vegetarian (and thus worthy of a good
> > > deal
> > > > > > more respect than the suneaters).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lena
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you have any evidence to back up this notion? I have never seen
> any
> > > sugar
> > > > > that lists bone ash as an ingredient - some list cornstarch but
> that's
> > > all.
> > > > > My guess is that a truly competent vegetarian will simply tell you
> that
> > > you
> > > > > are wrong.
> > > >
> > > > ...i've never seen cornstarch listed. must look at organic sugar
> > > > sometime.
> > > >
> > > > You should look more closely... look for something with calcium in
> it--of
> > > > course they aren't going to just tell you about bone ash.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.ebonex.com/hist.htm
> > > >
> > > > http://www.ultimatelife.com/CatSweet.htm
> > > >
> > > > http://members.cox.net/pnienstedt/processed_sugar.htm
> > > >
> > > > http://www.orahsaddiqim.org/Kashrut/..._Sucrose.shtml
> > > >
> > > > of course, if you've ever distilled sugar, you'll know immediately
> that it
> > > > has bone ash in it, as the crystallization properties of the two are
> quite
> > > > different (and the bone ash needs to be filtered out, before you get
> good
> > > > sugar)
> > > >
> > > > Lena
> > >
> > > Hmm, let's see. Your first cite refers to using bone ash in making sugar
> in
> > > the 1700s and 1800s. Hardly relevant to sugar today.
> >
> > rather stupid of you to try to discredit something added for historical
> > background... fits in with a mindset of "she is wrong... everything she
> > said must not be credible."
>
> > > Your second cite is a web page for a company that's trying to scare
> people
> > > away from using sugar so it is hardly a good source. Even if what they
> say
> > > is true, it says that the ash is used in the production process and
> *not*
> > > that it is present in the final product, which is what you are claiming.
> The
> > > same comments apply to your third cite.
> >
> > Indeed. I will, if you like, cite further sources saying that bone ash is
> > in fact present in the final product.
> >
> > Lena
> >
>
> You are going to provide new cites that prove that your original cites -
> specifically the fourth one that says there is no bone in the finshed
> product - are wrong? Sure, go right ahead. But why should we believe your
> new cites over your old cites? It is telling that in your reply you make a
> point of ignoring your 4th cite which specifically and directly contradicts
> your claim that sugar contains bone ash. Care to explain why?

would you like me to critique the portion of the jewish faith that keeps
kosher? I can do so very easily. for example, all forms of leavening are
forbidden on passover... except for baking soda, yeast, and other modern
leavening ingredients. I sincerely doubt that the site has ever exposed
sugar to a microscopic analysis, or even would be able to explain why not
all the sugar dissolves in water.

I'm not saying that a large proportion of bone ash is left there... but
i'm also not trying to tell you that rat hair isn't in candy bars either
(we all know it is... they're almost impossible to keep out. that's why
we have laws regulating the amount of rat hair...).

Lena

and my other sources have more credible knowledge of chemistry/physics
particularly as it applies to organic molecules. Hell, I've got more
qualifications than that site does, myself.

"Peter Aitken" > wrote in message
r.com...
> "Dan Abel" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article m>, "Peter
> > Aitken" > wrote:
> >
> > > "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Peter Aitken wrote:
> >
> >
> > > > > Do you have any evidence to back up this notion? I have never seen
> any
> > > sugar
> > > > > that lists bone ash as an ingredient - some list cornstarch but
> that's
> > > all.
> > > > > My guess is that a truly competent vegetarian will simply tell you
> that
> > > you
> > > > > are wrong.
> >
> >
> > > > http://www.ebonex.com/hist.htm
> >
> >
> > > > http://www.ultimatelife.com/CatSweet.htm
> >
> >
> > > > http://members.cox.net/pnienstedt/processed_sugar.htm
> >
> >
> > > > http://www.orahsaddiqim.org/Kashrut/..._Sucrose.shtml
> >
> >
> > > > of course, if you've ever distilled sugar, you'll know immediately
> that it
> > > > has bone ash in it, as the crystallization properties of the two are
> quite
> > > > different (and the bone ash needs to be filtered out, before you get
> good
> >
> >
> > > Hmm, let's see. Your first cite refers to using bone ash in making
sugar
> in
> > > the 1700s and 1800s. Hardly relevant to sugar today.
> > >
> > > Your second cite is a web page for a company that's trying to scare
> people
> > > away from using sugar so it is hardly a good source. Even if what they
> say
> > > is true, it says that the ash is used in the production process and
> *not*
> > > that it is present in the final product, which is what you are
claiming.
> The
> > > same comments apply to your third cite.
> > >
> > > Your fourth cite says explicitly that refined sugar does not contain
any
> > > bone even when bone ash is used in the process, and also that some
sugar
> is
> > > produced using processes that *do not* use bone ash.
> > >
> > > Might I suggest that you actually read and understand something before
> you
> > > cite it to support your position? This is the first time I have seen
> someone
> > > present citations that prove themselves wrong - maybe there's a medal
> for
> > > it!
> >
> >
> > Sounds like you stuck your foot in your mouth and you'd rather gag on it
> > than admit that you were wrong.
> >
> >
> > Vegetarians follow different sets of rules, but many not only don't eat
> > foods containing animal products, but also won't eat foods where animal
> > products were used in the production of the food.
> >
> >
> > Fortunately, I'm not a vegetarian. Where would you (the generic
> > vegetarian you) draw the line? Soil has decomposed animals in it. Soil
> > is used to grow plants. Are they non-vegetarian plants because animal
> > products were used to grow them?
> >
> > --
>
> Don't be an idiot. This has nothing at all to do with what vegetarians
will
> and will not eat. It is about the specific claim Lena made that sugar
> contains bone ash - that's all. Get it?
>
>
> --

Let me apologize for my first sentence - totally uncalled for. But if you
had read and understood the posts you would not have posted your message -
so perhaps you can understand my frustration.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Peter Aitken wrote:
>
> > "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Peter Aitken wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Peter Aitken wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
> > > > > >
...
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > <snipped>
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you want to be truly obnoxious to vegetarians (something, I
for
> > > > one,
> > > > > > > applaud, as long as it is done delicately)... try explaining
to
> > them
> > > > why
> > > > > > > sugar isn't vegetarian (they put bone ash in it as an
> > anti-coagulant).
> > > > > > > Most of the idiotic vegetarians will go "eek!"... it's quite
fun.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And the more serious ones will say, "yeah, so what?" and
you'll
> > know
> > > > that
> > > > > > > they're actually a competent vegetarian (and thus worthy of a
good
> > > > deal
> > > > > > > more respect than the suneaters).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lena
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you have any evidence to back up this notion? I have never
seen
> > any
> > > > sugar
> > > > > > that lists bone ash as an ingredient - some list cornstarch but
> > that's
> > > > all.
> > > > > > My guess is that a truly competent vegetarian will simply tell
you
> > that
> > > > you
> > > > > > are wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > ...i've never seen cornstarch listed. must look at organic sugar
> > > > > sometime.
> > > > >
> > > > > You should look more closely... look for something with calcium in
> > it--of
> > > > > course they aren't going to just tell you about bone ash.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.ebonex.com/hist.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.ultimatelife.com/CatSweet.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > http://members.cox.net/pnienstedt/processed_sugar.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.orahsaddiqim.org/Kashrut/..._Sucrose.shtml
> > > > >
> > > > > of course, if you've ever distilled sugar, you'll know immediately
> > that it
> > > > > has bone ash in it, as the crystallization properties of the two
are
> > quite
> > > > > different (and the bone ash needs to be filtered out, before you
get
> > good
> > > > > sugar)
> > > > >
> > > > > Lena
> > > >
> > > > Hmm, let's see. Your first cite refers to using bone ash in making
sugar
> > in
> > > > the 1700s and 1800s. Hardly relevant to sugar today.
> > >
> > > rather stupid of you to try to discredit something added for
historical
> > > background... fits in with a mindset of "she is wrong... everything
she
> > > said must not be credible."
> >
> > > > Your second cite is a web page for a company that's trying to scare
> > people
> > > > away from using sugar so it is hardly a good source. Even if what
they
> > say
> > > > is true, it says that the ash is used in the production process and
> > *not*
> > > > that it is present in the final product, which is what you are
claiming.
> > The
> > > > same comments apply to your third cite.
> > >
> > > Indeed. I will, if you like, cite further sources saying that bone
ash is
> > > in fact present in the final product.
> > >
> > > Lena
> > >
> >
> > You are going to provide new cites that prove that your original cites -
> > specifically the fourth one that says there is no bone in the finshed
> > product - are wrong? Sure, go right ahead. But why should we believe
your
> > new cites over your old cites? It is telling that in your reply you make
a
> > point of ignoring your 4th cite which specifically and directly
contradicts
> > your claim that sugar contains bone ash. Care to explain why?
>
> would you like me to critique the portion of the jewish faith that keeps
> kosher? I can do so very easily. for example, all forms of leavening are
> forbidden on passover... except for baking soda, yeast, and other modern
> leavening ingredients. I sincerely doubt that the site has ever exposed
> sugar to a microscopic analysis, or even would be able to explain why not
> all the sugar dissolves in water.
>
> I'm not saying that a large proportion of bone ash is left there... but
> i'm also not trying to tell you that rat hair isn't in candy bars either
> (we all know it is... they're almost impossible to keep out. that's why
> we have laws regulating the amount of rat hair...).
>
> Lena
>
> and my other sources have more credible knowledge of chemistry/physics
> particularly as it applies to organic molecules. Hell, I've got more
> qualifications than that site does, myself.

I feel sorry for you. I do not like to insult people, but you really are
astoundingly ignorant. As only a single example, do you really believe that
yeast is not considered a leavening ingredient? When pinned up against the
wall you change the subject to totally unrelated things rather than
addressing the topic at hand. You are not fooling anybody with an IQ above
room temperature. Why are you so resistant to learning anything? I have been
wrong many times, but each time I have used the situation to learn
something. Yet you prefer to remain ignorant. Is admitting you are wrong so
painful for you? Too bad.

By the way, you promised to provide cites supporting your position thar bone
ash is present in sugar- where are they?

I am done with this thread. I'd rather go and talk to the tree stump in my
back yard.
--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

Snipping all to answer the original question (see subject line,
please).

No. I like (okay, love) meat and I love vegetables and see no
reason (yet) to discontinue my practice of eating what I like
when I like.

Ta-da!

Cyndi

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 22:03:24 GMT, Frogleg
> wrote:

>
> This morning's NBC news dawn program mentioned (twice) the new Calif.
> governor's insistance that a "$15 million" bond issue be passed. Why
> couldn't he just make up that amount himself? Because the bond issue
> is for $15 *billion*, that's why. How many even noticed the number
> amount?

This is how he's going to be re-elected - it's the accent,
no one can understand what he says, so nobody questions how
things will be done. They just want less tax and if they
aren't impacted they don't care. They got their rollback of
the "car tax" (which was a big fraud pushed at ignorant
voters for election purposes).

So, now our budget is going to be balanced on the backs of
the working poor with a loan from the state teachers
retirement fund. How much you wanna bet it will never be
repaid? They stole money from the state employee's
retirement fund years ago and it still hasn't been repaid,
to my knowledge.


Practice safe eating - always use condiments