 |
|
| General Cooking (rec.food.cooking) For general food and cooking discussion. Foods of all kinds, food procurement, cooking methods and techniques, eating, etc. |
| Reply |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
|
|||
|
|||
"zuuum" > wrote in message ... > All I found relevant was... > http://www.ustreas.gov/tigta/2001rep...0130076es.html but they state > it is intended to be a "non-enforcement method" that are actually based on > "agreement" between the employer and IRS. > > and.... http://www.nysscpa.org/cpajournal/old/10428232.htm > There are references buried in http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-93/i8027.pdf as well, but not clearly compulsory. |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"zuuum" > wrote in message ... > All I found relevant was... > http://www.ustreas.gov/tigta/2001rep...0130076es.html but they state > it is intended to be a "non-enforcement method" that are actually based on > "agreement" between the employer and IRS. > > and.... http://www.nysscpa.org/cpajournal/old/10428232.htm > There are references buried in http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-93/i8027.pdf as well, but not clearly compulsory. |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"zuuum" > wrote in message ... > > "Peter Aitken" > wrote in message > m... > > "zuuum" > wrote in message > > ... > >> > >> "notbob" > wrote in message > >> news:4t41d.180830$Fg5.104797@attbi_s53... > >> > On 2004-09-12, jmcquown > wrote: > >> > > >> >> Indeed, they tax your sales not what you *earn* which is just plain > >> >> stupid. > >> >> Sometimes I had to pay more money than I made. Nother reason not to > >> >> be > > a > >> >> wait-person. > >> > > >> > HUH!!?? > >> > > >> > How can they tax your sales? A wait person is not selling anything? > >> > Please > >> > elaborate. > >> > > >> > nb > >> > >> The Feds adopted a policy of assuming unreported tips long ago, so now > > they > >> tax servers, whether they made the assumed percentage of tips or not. > >> > > > > This is plain and simply false. I have looked into this at length and the > > tax code is quite clear. All a wait has to do is detail their actual tips > > and pay tax on that amount. A percentage *may* be assumed if the wait does > > not itemize tips in the proper fashion. This is an urban legend that is > > kept > > alive by waits who who want customers to feel guilty for leaving no tip or > > a > > small tip when they get shitty service. > > > > > > -- > > Peter Aitken > > It is a stubborn legend, then. Any links to exactly what is legal for the > server's employer to withold? Perhaps it is witholdings rather than actual > taxes due. > > It's called "allocated tips." If you wait tables and do not report your actual tips to your employer they are required by law to "allocate" tip income to you. You then pay SS and FICA taxes plus income taxes on that amount. If you actually keep track of your tip income and can *prove* you made less than 8% of your sales in tips then you won't have allocated tips. Kathy |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"zuuum" > wrote in message ... > > "Peter Aitken" > wrote in message > m... > > "zuuum" > wrote in message > > ... > >> > >> "notbob" > wrote in message > >> news:4t41d.180830$Fg5.104797@attbi_s53... > >> > On 2004-09-12, jmcquown > wrote: > >> > > >> >> Indeed, they tax your sales not what you *earn* which is just plain > >> >> stupid. > >> >> Sometimes I had to pay more money than I made. Nother reason not to > >> >> be > > a > >> >> wait-person. > >> > > >> > HUH!!?? > >> > > >> > How can they tax your sales? A wait person is not selling anything? > >> > Please > >> > elaborate. > >> > > >> > nb > >> > >> The Feds adopted a policy of assuming unreported tips long ago, so now > > they > >> tax servers, whether they made the assumed percentage of tips or not. > >> > > > > This is plain and simply false. I have looked into this at length and the > > tax code is quite clear. All a wait has to do is detail their actual tips > > and pay tax on that amount. A percentage *may* be assumed if the wait does > > not itemize tips in the proper fashion. This is an urban legend that is > > kept > > alive by waits who who want customers to feel guilty for leaving no tip or > > a > > small tip when they get shitty service. > > > > > > -- > > Peter Aitken > > It is a stubborn legend, then. Any links to exactly what is legal for the > server's employer to withold? Perhaps it is witholdings rather than actual > taxes due. > > It's called "allocated tips." If you wait tables and do not report your actual tips to your employer they are required by law to "allocate" tip income to you. You then pay SS and FICA taxes plus income taxes on that amount. If you actually keep track of your tip income and can *prove* you made less than 8% of your sales in tips then you won't have allocated tips. Kathy |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Peter Aitken wrote:
> "kilikini" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message >> ... >>> notbob wrote: >>>> >>>> On 2004-09-12, jmcquown > wrote: >>>> >>>>> Indeed, they tax your sales not what you *earn* which is just >>>>> plain stupid. Sometimes I had to pay more money than I made. >>>>> Nother reason not to be a wait-person. >>>> >>>> HUH!!?? >>>> >>>> How can they tax your sales? A wait person is not selling >>>> anything? Please elaborate. >>> >>> They assume you make a certain percentage of tips. I forget what >>> the percentage they assume. Unfortunately, it's a result of massive >>> underreporting by waitstaff. >>> >>> nancy >> >> That's the very reason why it's so important to tip the staff. The >> government automatically taxes the staff based upon the sales that >> they did. If people don't tip, the waiters and waitresses pay for it >> anyway. It's not fair, IMO, but that's how it works. >> >> kili >> >> > This is bullshit - see my other message. It's not bullshit. They didn't institute this until hmmmm, 1981 or so. After that, I recall many times I earned less in a given night than I made in wages + tips many a day because of what I had to report based on food/liquor sales. Jill |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Peter Aitken wrote:
> "kilikini" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message >> ... >>> notbob wrote: >>>> >>>> On 2004-09-12, jmcquown > wrote: >>>> >>>>> Indeed, they tax your sales not what you *earn* which is just >>>>> plain stupid. Sometimes I had to pay more money than I made. >>>>> Nother reason not to be a wait-person. >>>> >>>> HUH!!?? >>>> >>>> How can they tax your sales? A wait person is not selling >>>> anything? Please elaborate. >>> >>> They assume you make a certain percentage of tips. I forget what >>> the percentage they assume. Unfortunately, it's a result of massive >>> underreporting by waitstaff. >>> >>> nancy >> >> That's the very reason why it's so important to tip the staff. The >> government automatically taxes the staff based upon the sales that >> they did. If people don't tip, the waiters and waitresses pay for it >> anyway. It's not fair, IMO, but that's how it works. >> >> kili >> >> > This is bullshit - see my other message. It's not bullshit. They didn't institute this until hmmmm, 1981 or so. After that, I recall many times I earned less in a given night than I made in wages + tips many a day because of what I had to report based on food/liquor sales. Jill |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Peter Aitken wrote:
> "zuuum" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "notbob" > wrote in message >> news:4t41d.180830$Fg5.104797@attbi_s53... >>> On 2004-09-12, jmcquown > wrote: >>> >>>> Indeed, they tax your sales not what you *earn* which is just plain >>>> stupid. >>>> Sometimes I had to pay more money than I made. Nother reason not >>>> to be a wait-person. >>> >>> HUH!!?? >>> >>> How can they tax your sales? A wait person is not selling anything? >>> Please >>> elaborate. >>> >>> nb >> >> The Feds adopted a policy of assuming unreported tips long ago, so >> now they tax servers, whether they made the assumed percentage of >> tips or not. >> > > This is plain and simply false. I have looked into this at length and > the tax code is quite clear. All a wait has to do is detail their > actual tips and pay tax on that amount. Tell this to the restaurant management who makes you report it based on what they show you sold, not what is in your pocket. Trust me on this one. Oh, while we're at it, why the hell should a server have to share tips with the bus-boys and bar-backs who make at least minimum wage or more? Servers are paid sub-human wages and rely on the good graces of the customers to make up the difference. NOTE: I am not saying one should tip if the service is lousy. I'm nothing if not a little more critical than people who haven't worked in a restaurant. Jill A percentage *may* be assumed > if the wait does not itemize tips in the proper fashion. This is an > urban legend that is kept alive by waits who who want customers to > feel guilty for leaving no tip or a small tip when they get shitty > service. |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Peter Aitken wrote:
> "zuuum" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "notbob" > wrote in message >> news:4t41d.180830$Fg5.104797@attbi_s53... >>> On 2004-09-12, jmcquown > wrote: >>> >>>> Indeed, they tax your sales not what you *earn* which is just plain >>>> stupid. >>>> Sometimes I had to pay more money than I made. Nother reason not >>>> to be a wait-person. >>> >>> HUH!!?? >>> >>> How can they tax your sales? A wait person is not selling anything? >>> Please >>> elaborate. >>> >>> nb >> >> The Feds adopted a policy of assuming unreported tips long ago, so >> now they tax servers, whether they made the assumed percentage of >> tips or not. >> > > This is plain and simply false. I have looked into this at length and > the tax code is quite clear. All a wait has to do is detail their > actual tips and pay tax on that amount. Tell this to the restaurant management who makes you report it based on what they show you sold, not what is in your pocket. Trust me on this one. Oh, while we're at it, why the hell should a server have to share tips with the bus-boys and bar-backs who make at least minimum wage or more? Servers are paid sub-human wages and rely on the good graces of the customers to make up the difference. NOTE: I am not saying one should tip if the service is lousy. I'm nothing if not a little more critical than people who haven't worked in a restaurant. Jill A percentage *may* be assumed > if the wait does not itemize tips in the proper fashion. This is an > urban legend that is kept alive by waits who who want customers to > feel guilty for leaving no tip or a small tip when they get shitty > service. |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Peter Aitken" > wrote in message m... > "zuuum" > wrote in message > ... > > > > "notbob" > wrote in message > > news:4t41d.180830$Fg5.104797@attbi_s53... > > > On 2004-09-12, jmcquown > wrote: > > > > > >> Indeed, they tax your sales not what you *earn* which is just plain > > >> stupid. > > >> Sometimes I had to pay more money than I made. Nother reason not to be > a > > >> wait-person. > > > > > > HUH!!?? > > > > > > How can they tax your sales? A wait person is not selling anything? > > > Please > > > elaborate. > > > > > > nb > > > > The Feds adopted a policy of assuming unreported tips long ago, so now > they > > tax servers, whether they made the assumed percentage of tips or not. > > > > This is plain and simply false. I have looked into this at length and the > tax code is quite clear. All a wait has to do is detail their actual tips > and pay tax on that amount. A percentage *may* be assumed if the wait does > not itemize tips in the proper fashion. This is an urban legend that is kept > alive by waits who who want customers to feel guilty for leaving no tip or a > small tip when they get shitty service. > > > -- > Peter Aitken > > Remove the crap from my email address before using. There are places where the tips may not add up to 8% over the course of a year. If those people don't keep accurate records and report their tip income their employer may allocate 8% of their sales to tip income. If the wait person did not keep records and did not report their daily tips the employer will allocate tips on their W-4. Then the employee will pay SS and FICA plus income tax. I do taxes for several waiters and waitresses every year. Some report their tip income and some don't. Kathy |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Peter Aitken" > wrote in message m... > "zuuum" > wrote in message > ... > > > > "notbob" > wrote in message > > news:4t41d.180830$Fg5.104797@attbi_s53... > > > On 2004-09-12, jmcquown > wrote: > > > > > >> Indeed, they tax your sales not what you *earn* which is just plain > > >> stupid. > > >> Sometimes I had to pay more money than I made. Nother reason not to be > a > > >> wait-person. > > > > > > HUH!!?? > > > > > > How can they tax your sales? A wait person is not selling anything? > > > Please > > > elaborate. > > > > > > nb > > > > The Feds adopted a policy of assuming unreported tips long ago, so now > they > > tax servers, whether they made the assumed percentage of tips or not. > > > > This is plain and simply false. I have looked into this at length and the > tax code is quite clear. All a wait has to do is detail their actual tips > and pay tax on that amount. A percentage *may* be assumed if the wait does > not itemize tips in the proper fashion. This is an urban legend that is kept > alive by waits who who want customers to feel guilty for leaving no tip or a > small tip when they get shitty service. > > > -- > Peter Aitken > > Remove the crap from my email address before using. There are places where the tips may not add up to 8% over the course of a year. If those people don't keep accurate records and report their tip income their employer may allocate 8% of their sales to tip income. If the wait person did not keep records and did not report their daily tips the employer will allocate tips on their W-4. Then the employee will pay SS and FICA plus income tax. I do taxes for several waiters and waitresses every year. Some report their tip income and some don't. Kathy |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"jmcquown" > wrote in message ... > Tell this to the restaurant management who makes you report it based on > what > they show you sold, not what is in your pocket. Trust me on this one. > > Oh, while we're at it, why the hell should a server have to share tips > with > the bus-boys and bar-backs who make at least minimum wage or more? > Servers > are paid sub-human wages and rely on the good graces of the customers to > make up the difference. > > NOTE: I am not saying one should tip if the service is lousy. I'm > nothing > if not a little more critical than people who haven't worked in a > restaurant. > > Jill Are you trying to say you are paid LESS than minimum wage? That is illegal. Why on earth would you even agree to that? Anticipation of tip earnings??? "Relying on good graces of customers to make up the difference"???? That perpetuates the main problem! If everyone was making a decent wage to begin with, tipping would truly be a gratuity, and appreciated as such. As it is, many servers feel that tipping is based primarily on the fact that they know they are "more" under-paid. News flash.. the kitchenstaff is underpaid, as well. I amaze servers when they discover they often pocket more cash after tips then I earn by wage on a busy night. Remember, cooks make the same wage whether they serve 100 or 300 in one night, unless there is a tipout system. We are the ones making the product all the servers serve. No product, no need for servers. Poor product, why tip well? The bottom line is, all personnel should be paid a decent base wage. And, servers who are well-organized professionals should be paid more than those who aren't, just like any other position within the restaurant; pay should equal skill-level and the direct effect they have on volume of business. How many professional servers do you know?; I mean trained with extensive experience. Most of those I deal with are less than 2 years at it and look for server jobs specifically for tip cash, which they don't have to wait for paydays to have available. I know there are exceptions, but what do you find generally? As for sharing tips - everyone involved makes for the "service". Slow bussing, unskilled cooks, or slack dishwashing will kill your customers perception of service no matter how much running you do, so they contribute to whether the over-all "service" is seen as good or bad. Just as poor servers can damage the perceived value of expertly prepared food, as in served late/cold. If the line is putting up 300+ covers at dinner without dropping the ball, don't they deserve cut, especially if a server has "see server" scribbled on every other ticket hoping to please their tables with "special orders" in anticipation of better tips? LOL.. I recall my first restaurant job as a waiter. I swear my co-worker would make more in tips the more plates she dropped. It was a reverse ploy... not tipped for good service, but rather, out of pity. I could never find any other explanation. |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"jmcquown" > wrote in message ... > Tell this to the restaurant management who makes you report it based on > what > they show you sold, not what is in your pocket. Trust me on this one. > > Oh, while we're at it, why the hell should a server have to share tips > with > the bus-boys and bar-backs who make at least minimum wage or more? > Servers > are paid sub-human wages and rely on the good graces of the customers to > make up the difference. > > NOTE: I am not saying one should tip if the service is lousy. I'm > nothing > if not a little more critical than people who haven't worked in a > restaurant. > > Jill Are you trying to say you are paid LESS than minimum wage? That is illegal. Why on earth would you even agree to that? Anticipation of tip earnings??? "Relying on good graces of customers to make up the difference"???? That perpetuates the main problem! If everyone was making a decent wage to begin with, tipping would truly be a gratuity, and appreciated as such. As it is, many servers feel that tipping is based primarily on the fact that they know they are "more" under-paid. News flash.. the kitchenstaff is underpaid, as well. I amaze servers when they discover they often pocket more cash after tips then I earn by wage on a busy night. Remember, cooks make the same wage whether they serve 100 or 300 in one night, unless there is a tipout system. We are the ones making the product all the servers serve. No product, no need for servers. Poor product, why tip well? The bottom line is, all personnel should be paid a decent base wage. And, servers who are well-organized professionals should be paid more than those who aren't, just like any other position within the restaurant; pay should equal skill-level and the direct effect they have on volume of business. How many professional servers do you know?; I mean trained with extensive experience. Most of those I deal with are less than 2 years at it and look for server jobs specifically for tip cash, which they don't have to wait for paydays to have available. I know there are exceptions, but what do you find generally? As for sharing tips - everyone involved makes for the "service". Slow bussing, unskilled cooks, or slack dishwashing will kill your customers perception of service no matter how much running you do, so they contribute to whether the over-all "service" is seen as good or bad. Just as poor servers can damage the perceived value of expertly prepared food, as in served late/cold. If the line is putting up 300+ covers at dinner without dropping the ball, don't they deserve cut, especially if a server has "see server" scribbled on every other ticket hoping to please their tables with "special orders" in anticipation of better tips? LOL.. I recall my first restaurant job as a waiter. I swear my co-worker would make more in tips the more plates she dropped. It was a reverse ploy... not tipped for good service, but rather, out of pity. I could never find any other explanation. |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On 2004-09-13, Nancy Young > wrote:
> tip for three people. I hid money under my plate to make up for it. I can relate, Nancy. I can't count the number of times I've left a covert tip to make up for the inconsiderate scrub I've discovered, too late, I've made the mistake of dining with. nb |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On 2004-09-13, Nancy Young > wrote:
> tip for three people. I hid money under my plate to make up for it. I can relate, Nancy. I can't count the number of times I've left a covert tip to make up for the inconsiderate scrub I've discovered, too late, I've made the mistake of dining with. nb |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
zuuum wrote:
> > Are you trying to say you are paid LESS than minimum wage? That is illegal. > Why on earth would you even agree to that? Anticipation of tip earnings??? > "Relying on good graces of customers to make up the difference"???? That > perpetuates the main problem! > It should be illegal, but it's not. > > As for sharing tips - everyone involved makes for the "service". Slow > bussing, unskilled cooks, or slack dishwashing will kill your customers > perception of service no matter how much running you do, so they contribute > to whether the over-all "service" is seen as good or bad. Just as poor > servers can damage the perceived value of expertly prepared food, as in > served late/cold. If the line is putting up 300+ covers at dinner without > dropping the ball, don't they deserve cut, especially if a server has "see > server" scribbled on every other ticket hoping to please their tables with > "special orders" in anticipation of better tips? AFAIK, only the waiters/waitresses are paid less than minimum wage. Often much less. The busboys and dishwashers are paid more than the servers (I suppose unless they are illegal aliens.) Bob |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"zuuum" > wrote in message ... > > Are you trying to say you are paid LESS than minimum wage? That is > illegal. Why on earth would you even agree to that? Anticipation of tip > earnings??? "Relying on good graces of customers to make up the > difference"???? That perpetuates the main problem! > Reminds me of the logic of working on cruise ships for low wages... "But think of the free room and board, all the money you'll save with nowhere to spend it, and all the exotic places you get to see!" Meaning: sharing a tiny, windowless-cabin below the waterline with 3 others, eating leftover buffet food, working 11 hour days seven days per week with about 40 minutes to sprint through some strange port-of-call trying to do essential business without a clue. Ah, another glamorous job. Live and learn. |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"zxcvbob" > wrote in message ... > zuuum wrote: >> >> Are you trying to say you are paid LESS than minimum wage? That is >> illegal. > > It should be illegal, but it's not. According to US Dept of Labor http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/q-a.htm ........ there is a seperate minimum wage for tipped employees, $2.13 vs $5.15, for workers aged 20 and over. ****If they make less, after tips, the employer has to make up the difference**** for any enterprise that exceeds $500,000 in business a year |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"zxcvbob" > wrote in message ... > zuuum wrote: >> >> Are you trying to say you are paid LESS than minimum wage? That is >> illegal. > > It should be illegal, but it's not. According to US Dept of Labor http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/q-a.htm ........ there is a seperate minimum wage for tipped employees, $2.13 vs $5.15, for workers aged 20 and over. ****If they make less, after tips, the employer has to make up the difference**** for any enterprise that exceeds $500,000 in business a year |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Dog3" <dognospam@adjfkdla;not> wrote in message >> Now that sucks. Why couldn't the wait unit have just said something >> like "This is very generous. Are you sure there is not an error? The >> usual tip for good service is XX%." How hard is that? >> > > Could be the kid left after adding the tip. The CC slip is brought > to the table and all you have to do is sign. The wait person maybe > did not see it until too late. Or they thought it was some rich kid > that liked to show off tossing his money around. Excellent point, since it was a credit card. I recall one table I served. Two young but not *that* young couples, nice folks. Separate checks for each of the couples. This guy decided to impress his date by handing me a $20 in front of them when their ticket was only $40 including a few cocktails (this was a long time ago LOL). I said to the man, oh no, this is way too much. He insisted. Thank you very much! Of course, then his buddy was not to be outdone in front of his date. When I think about this now, it was probably not a nice thing to do to his pal who felt he had to do the same to suitably impress the lady he was dining with. Jill |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
K. Reece wrote:
> "zuuum" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "Peter Aitken" > wrote in message >> m... >>> "zuuum" > wrote in message >>> ... >>>> >>>> "notbob" > wrote in message >>>> news:4t41d.180830$Fg5.104797@attbi_s53... >>>>> On 2004-09-12, jmcquown > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Indeed, they tax your sales not what you *earn* which is just >>>>>> plain stupid. >>>>>> Sometimes I had to pay more money than I made. Nother reason >>>>>> not to be >>> a >>>>>> wait-person. >>>>> >>>>> HUH!!?? >>>>> >>>>> How can they tax your sales? A wait person is not selling >>>>> anything? Please >>>>> elaborate. >>>>> >>>>> nb >>>> >>>> The Feds adopted a policy of assuming unreported tips long ago, so >>>> now they tax servers, whether they made the assumed percentage of >>>> tips or not. >>>> >>> >>> This is plain and simply false. I have looked into this at length >>> and the tax code is quite clear. All a wait has to do is detail >>> their actual tips and pay tax on that amount. A percentage *may* be >>> assumed if the wait does not itemize tips in the proper fashion. >>> This is an urban legend that is kept >>> alive by waits who who want customers to feel guilty for leaving no >>> tip or a >>> small tip when they get shitty service. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Peter Aitken >> >> It is a stubborn legend, then. Any links to exactly what is legal >> for the server's employer to withold? Perhaps it is witholdings >> rather than actual taxes due. >> >> > > It's called "allocated tips." If you wait tables and do not report > your actual tips to your employer they are required by law to > "allocate" tip income to you. You then pay SS and FICA taxes plus > income taxes on that amount. If you actually keep track of your tip > income and can *prove* you made less than 8% of your sales in tips > then you won't have allocated tips. > > Kathy Depends on the restaurant, I guess. When I cashed out every night they would calculate my tips on the spot based on the sales and make a record of it. It was deducted from the meager base paycheck I got for my under "tips and other compensation". A lot of servers are high school or college kids who wouldn't even *think* to keep up with their tips for tax reporting the next year. Jill |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
K. Reece wrote:
> "zuuum" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "Peter Aitken" > wrote in message >> m... >>> "zuuum" > wrote in message >>> ... >>>> >>>> "notbob" > wrote in message >>>> news:4t41d.180830$Fg5.104797@attbi_s53... >>>>> On 2004-09-12, jmcquown > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Indeed, they tax your sales not what you *earn* which is just >>>>>> plain stupid. >>>>>> Sometimes I had to pay more money than I made. Nother reason >>>>>> not to be >>> a >>>>>> wait-person. >>>>> >>>>> HUH!!?? >>>>> >>>>> How can they tax your sales? A wait person is not selling >>>>> anything? Please >>>>> elaborate. >>>>> >>>>> nb >>>> >>>> The Feds adopted a policy of assuming unreported tips long ago, so >>>> now they tax servers, whether they made the assumed percentage of >>>> tips or not. >>>> >>> >>> This is plain and simply false. I have looked into this at length >>> and the tax code is quite clear. All a wait has to do is detail >>> their actual tips and pay tax on that amount. A percentage *may* be >>> assumed if the wait does not itemize tips in the proper fashion. >>> This is an urban legend that is kept >>> alive by waits who who want customers to feel guilty for leaving no >>> tip or a >>> small tip when they get shitty service. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Peter Aitken >> >> It is a stubborn legend, then. Any links to exactly what is legal >> for the server's employer to withold? Perhaps it is witholdings >> rather than actual taxes due. >> >> > > It's called "allocated tips." If you wait tables and do not report > your actual tips to your employer they are required by law to > "allocate" tip income to you. You then pay SS and FICA taxes plus > income taxes on that amount. If you actually keep track of your tip > income and can *prove* you made less than 8% of your sales in tips > then you won't have allocated tips. > > Kathy Depends on the restaurant, I guess. When I cashed out every night they would calculate my tips on the spot based on the sales and make a record of it. It was deducted from the meager base paycheck I got for my under "tips and other compensation". A lot of servers are high school or college kids who wouldn't even *think* to keep up with their tips for tax reporting the next year. Jill |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Nancy Young" > wrote in message ... > I went to lunch with a friend and this guy. He paid, so who am I to > say, he was trying to impress my friend. He left a quarter for the > tip for three people. I hid money under my plate to make up for it. I find that many of my women friends are lousy tippers and sometimes I wonder if it's because many of them are not used to being the ones to pay the restaurant bill. I've been known to pretend to have forgotten something in order to return to the table and leave more money. When I think about lousy tipping I recall an occasion about 28 years ago when we had a fun night at the Mess. Only the women were allowed to buy from the bar. One woman went up and ordered 8 cocktails, cocktails having been a recent 'exotic' addition to a bar where the most exotic had been 'dark run and Pepsi' instead of 'dark rum and Coke'. After he mixed and blended the bartender handed her a tray with drinks that came to X dollars and 95 cents. She left the nickel as a tip. He promptly flipped it into one of the drinks. Gabby |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 04:23:15 -0500, "jmcquown"
> wrote: [snip] > I recall one table I served. [..] This guy decided > to impress his date by handing me a $20 [..] Of > course, then his buddy was not to be outdone > in front of his date. [snip] "A fool and his money are soon parted." Dueling wallets and idiots; I loved serving those type of customers. Of course, I also enjoyed the senior citizens that would come up to the station, usually in front of my manager and tip me four bits with comments like, "Best service we've ever had here!" That was money I didn't have prior and could immediately bank. My section was never empty and I never worried about "losing" money. The Ranger |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 04:23:15 -0500, "jmcquown"
> wrote: [snip] > I recall one table I served. [..] This guy decided > to impress his date by handing me a $20 [..] Of > course, then his buddy was not to be outdone > in front of his date. [snip] "A fool and his money are soon parted." Dueling wallets and idiots; I loved serving those type of customers. Of course, I also enjoyed the senior citizens that would come up to the station, usually in front of my manager and tip me four bits with comments like, "Best service we've ever had here!" That was money I didn't have prior and could immediately bank. My section was never empty and I never worried about "losing" money. The Ranger |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 04:30:58 -0500, "jmcquown"
> wrote: [snip] > Depends on the restaurant, I guess. When I cashed > out every night they would calculate my tips on the > spot based on the sales and make a record of it. It > was deducted from the meager base paycheck I got > for my under "tips and other compensation". So? That's just a step-saver and kind of convenient. If you weren't making enough money to work there, it wasn't the customers' or managements' faults. Look in the mirror. > A lot of servers are high school or college kids who > wouldn't even *think* to keep up with their tips for > tax reporting the next year. Age is such a stupid excuse for not keeping records... Why not peg it for what it really was; sheer laziness. The Ranger |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:51:21 GMT, notbob > wrote:
>On 2004-09-12, pennyaline > wrote: > >> If it's an additional service charge, then call it an additional service >> charge. But if it's called an additional service charge, make damn sure some >> service above and beyond the standard was actually provided. Otherwise, it's >> just a gouge. > >The whole tips thing is an end run on having to pay taxes and worker's comp >and bennies on the money the employer would otherwise have to declare/pay >out. If the employer is going to be able to avoid calling tips earned >income, he shouldn't have the right to make tips mandatory. This whole >thing needs to be re-defined. But, it's never going to happen. Big >restaurants make regular contributions and the power elite likes to dine out. If six people are sitting at the table, they each order separately, and ask for separate checks, are they required to pay the large party mandated tip? Pan Ohco |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"jmcquown" > wrote in message
... > Peter Aitken wrote: > > "kilikini" > wrote in message > > ... > >> > >> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message > >> ... > >>> notbob wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On 2004-09-12, jmcquown > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Indeed, they tax your sales not what you *earn* which is just > >>>>> plain stupid. Sometimes I had to pay more money than I made. > >>>>> Nother reason not to be a wait-person. > >>>> > >>>> HUH!!?? > >>>> > >>>> How can they tax your sales? A wait person is not selling > >>>> anything? Please elaborate. > >>> > >>> They assume you make a certain percentage of tips. I forget what > >>> the percentage they assume. Unfortunately, it's a result of massive > >>> underreporting by waitstaff. > >>> > >>> nancy > >> > >> That's the very reason why it's so important to tip the staff. The > >> government automatically taxes the staff based upon the sales that > >> they did. If people don't tip, the waiters and waitresses pay for it > >> anyway. It's not fair, IMO, but that's how it works. > >> > >> kili > >> > >> > > This is bullshit - see my other message. > > It's not bullshit. They didn't institute this until hmmmm, 1981 or so. > After that, I recall many times I earned less in a given night than I made > in wages + tips many a day because of what I had to report based on > food/liquor sales. > > Jill > > The employer may *withhold* based on a percentage but the tax you pay is based on the tips you actually received. The tax code is quite clear - I posted the relevant links in a similar discussion a year or so ago. Of course I bet many places screw their employees by lying to them about the tax law. -- Peter Aitken Remove the crap from my email address before using. |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"jmcquown" > wrote in message
... > Peter Aitken wrote: > > "kilikini" > wrote in message > > ... > >> > >> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message > >> ... > >>> notbob wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On 2004-09-12, jmcquown > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Indeed, they tax your sales not what you *earn* which is just > >>>>> plain stupid. Sometimes I had to pay more money than I made. > >>>>> Nother reason not to be a wait-person. > >>>> > >>>> HUH!!?? > >>>> > >>>> How can they tax your sales? A wait person is not selling > >>>> anything? Please elaborate. > >>> > >>> They assume you make a certain percentage of tips. I forget what > >>> the percentage they assume. Unfortunately, it's a result of massive > >>> underreporting by waitstaff. > >>> > >>> nancy > >> > >> That's the very reason why it's so important to tip the staff. The > >> government automatically taxes the staff based upon the sales that > >> they did. If people don't tip, the waiters and waitresses pay for it > >> anyway. It's not fair, IMO, but that's how it works. > >> > >> kili > >> > >> > > This is bullshit - see my other message. > > It's not bullshit. They didn't institute this until hmmmm, 1981 or so. > After that, I recall many times I earned less in a given night than I made > in wages + tips many a day because of what I had to report based on > food/liquor sales. > > Jill > > The employer may *withhold* based on a percentage but the tax you pay is based on the tips you actually received. The tax code is quite clear - I posted the relevant links in a similar discussion a year or so ago. Of course I bet many places screw their employees by lying to them about the tax law. -- Peter Aitken Remove the crap from my email address before using. |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:05:44 -0500, Pan Ohco >
wrote: [mid sized parties and mandatory service charges] > If six people are sitting at the table, they each > order separately, and ask for separate checks, > are they required to pay the large party mandated > tip? What do you think? The Ranger |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:05:44 -0500, Pan Ohco >
wrote: [mid sized parties and mandatory service charges] > If six people are sitting at the table, they each > order separately, and ask for separate checks, > are they required to pay the large party mandated > tip? What do you think? The Ranger |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:05:44 -0500, Pan Ohco >
wrote: [mid sized parties and mandatory service charges] > If six people are sitting at the table, they each > order separately, and ask for separate checks, > are they required to pay the large party mandated > tip? What do you think? The Ranger |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Pan Ohco wrote:
> > > If six people are sitting at the table, they each order separately, > and ask for separate checks, are they required to pay the large party > mandated tip? > > Pan Ohco They should have to pay double the tip, just for the aggravation. gloria p |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Dog3 wrote:
> > Melba's Jammin' > > : > > > In article > , Dog3 > > <dognospam@adjfkdla;not> wrote: > >> Well, the restaurant was within it's rights to prosecute. It's > >> considered theft of services here and there is a fine and possible > >> jail time. OTOH, never have I heard of any establishment actually > >> pursuing a patron like this. > >> Michael > > > > But what if the service sucks, Michael? It happened to a group of > > women when we went to dinner. The waiter was rude, inattentive, and > > the service was sorely lacking. With 18% added for the privilege. We > > were not demanding anything beyond basic good service. We wondered if > > he was po'd because we're not a big drinking group and there wasn't > > much of a liquor tab. I don't know if anyone complained -- I didn't > > do anything but grumble along with the rest. Shame on me. > > If the service sucks, talk to the manager. I've been in that same > situation and management took it off the check and we tipped like 8%. I > think there is much more to this than the published article stated. Never > have I heard of such a bullshit thing to do to a patron. I can't help but > think the guy ****ed everyone off in the restaurant, including other > patrons with obnoxious behavior. Something else had to happen besides his > refusal to leave the full tip. What I can't figure out is how he got away without paying the gratuity. In my experience when there is a mandatory gratuity (usually 12% when I've come across it - if I'd seen 18% I'da got up and walked out without ordering) for a large party they add it into the bill for you. So when they present the bill it's already included in the total. Only thing you could do would be to just leave the cash on the table and walk out without waiting for the waiter to come pick up the check and money or cards. You definitely couldn't do it if you were using a credit card. If the restaurant is not adding it into the bill then I would say that you shouldn't have to pay it if the service was bad. Kate -- Kate Connally “If I were as old as I feel, I’d be dead already.” Goldfish: “The wholesome snack that smiles back, Until you bite their heads off.” What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all about? |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Dog3 wrote:
> Same here. There are people out there that are just cheap. I stopped dining > out with 2 friends because they were immediately belligerant and always > stiffed the waiter after running them all night. The friends would bitch all > evening about one thing or another. They are fine people but sort of turn > when they sit down at a table in a restaurant. Every time I dined out with > them I had to sneak money to the waiter or hide it under my plate. Yes, there are cheap people out there. I do not pool tips when I go out with other people. I give my tip directly to the server or leave it at my place at the table. While I may feel sorry for servers waiting on some cheap people I know and who I had to have restaurant meals with, I do not subsidize their tips. I have been known to call them cheap SOBs for leaving small tips, or no tips, but I am not paying for them. The worst was a guy who went out with a bunch of coworkers. When they were all up at the cashier paying their bills he went back to the table. It looked like he was going back to leave a tip. What he tried to do was to pick up the tips the others had left. When organizing Christmas luncheons, I always requested individual bills because I knew some of the cheap SOBs would not leave tips if we pooled our money, and probably try to overlook the tax on their portion leaving the money collector to make up the difference. I always leave a fair tip, but I must admit that I resent it. I think that service is part of a restaurant meal and that owners should pay their staff a reasonable meal rather than leaving them at the mercy of a cheap and resentful public, or being held responsible for slow and sloppy kitchen staff. I especially resent having a 15% service fee on buffet meals. They are not waiting on me and bringing my food, so I don't think it is fair to expect people to tip them as if they were. |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Dog3" <dognospam@adjfkdla;not> wrote in message
4... > Pan Ohco > > : > > > On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:51:21 GMT, notbob > wrote: > > > >>On 2004-09-12, pennyaline > > wrote: > >> > >>> If it's an additional service charge, then call it an additional > >>> service charge. But if it's called an additional service charge, > >>> make damn sure some service above and beyond the standard was > >>> actually provided. Otherwise, it's just a gouge. > >> > >>The whole tips thing is an end run on having to pay taxes and worker's > >>comp and bennies on the money the employer would otherwise have to > >>declare/pay out. If the employer is going to be able to avoid calling > >>tips earned income, he shouldn't have the right to make tips > >>mandatory. This whole thing needs to be re-defined. But, it's never > >>going to happen. Big restaurants make regular contributions and the > >>power elite likes to dine out. > > > > If six people are sitting at the table, they each order separately, > > and ask for separate checks, are they required to pay the large party > > mandated tip? > > > > Pan Ohco > > > > Yep. And of course there are the restaurants that will not issue separate > checks for large parties. What a pain in the ass it is for the kitchen. > Yes - what a ridiculous notion that a business should put itself out for its customers. -- Peter Aitken Remove the crap from my email address before using. |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Dog3 wrote:
> > notbob > news:5h91d.181567$mD.110567@attbi_s02: > > > On 2004-09-13, Nancy Young > wrote: > > > >> tip for three people. I hid money under my plate to make up for it. > > > > I can relate, Nancy. I can't count the number of times I've left a > > covert tip to make up for the inconsiderate scrub I've discovered, too > > late, I've made the mistake of dining with. > Same here. There are people out there that are just cheap. That's him, this guy is just plain cheap. He was loaded, I know how much he made at work, and he sold his side business, a chain of pc stores, for a ton of money. Like, I would have paid for lunch if I knew he was going to leave a quarter. > I stopped dining > out with 2 friends because they were immediately belligerant and always > stiffed the waiter after running them all night. The friends would bitch > all evening about one thing or another. Well, like you, that isn't my idea of a good time. I've eaten with people like that, I just cringe. > Every time I dined out > with them I had to sneak money to the waiter or hide it under my plate. (laugh) Completely unrelated, I had this big honkin piece of kale on my plate, my boyfriend stuck it under his plate. Forgot all about it. Waitress took the plate away, it stuck for maybe five steps and plopped on some guy's head. She looked so astonished, we had trouble containing ourselves from going into hysterics. nancy |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
Puester wrote:
> Pan Ohco wrote: > > >>If six people are sitting at the table, they each order separately, >>and ask for separate checks, are they required to pay the large party >>mandated tip? >> >>Pan Ohco > > > > > They should have to pay double the tip, just for the aggravation. > > gloria p They should ask for 6 separate tables to avoid the "service charge". Bob |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:13:46 -0000, Dog3 <dognospam@adjfkdla;not>
wrote: > The Ranger > : > > "A fool and his money are soon parted." > > > > Dueling wallets and idiots; I loved serving those > > type of customers. > > > > Of course, I also enjoyed the senior citizens that > > would come up to the station, usually in front of > > my manager and tip me four bits with comments > > like, "Best service we've ever had here!" That > > was money I didn't have prior and could immediately > > bank. My section was never empty and I never > > worried about "losing" money. > > > Who was it that said "A good waiter makes plenty of > money. A poor waiter makes too much."? I don't know but I know a server or two that it fit to a T, though. The Ranger |
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:52:51 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote: [snip] > The worst was a guy who went out with a bunch > of coworkers. When they were all up at the cashier > paying their bills he went back to the table. It > looked like he was going back to leave a tip. What > he tried to do was to pick up the tips the others > had left. [snip] Why is there always one of these participating in group meals?! I noticed the "he tried" which -- I'm hoping beyond hope -- might mean someone larger and with a better title called him on his boorish thievery. I tend to embarrass those types of jackasses. I don't need them to go out with "us" and they won't ever get invited back if I'm organizing said meal. "F" 'em with a cue stick. The Ranger -- "John? Your portion of lunch is $42.00. I itemized you in particular because you ordered the lobster, a cocktail, and dessert. Eat on the company account if they'll pay, not mine." |
| Reply |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Linear Mode
