http://www.newsday.com/mynews/ny-lit...,4014777.story

As it should be.

If it's mandatory, it's not a tip, it's a service charge.

Pastorio

"Soprano could not be reached yesterday but his wife, Tina Soprano, said
last week it was a matter of principle. "

arrested over a principle? can you say "call my attorney"?

m

Grizzman wrote:
> "Soprano could not be reached yesterday but his wife, Tina Soprano, said
> last week it was a matter of principle. "
>
> arrested over a principle? can you say "call my attorney"?
>
> m
>
>

It would be interesting to see what the negative publicity has done/will
do to their business and to the number of people refusing to pay the "tip."


jim

Grizzman wrote:
> "Soprano could not be reached yesterday but his wife, Tina Soprano, said
> last week it was a matter of principle. "
>
> arrested over a principle? can you say "call my attorney"?
>
> m
>
>

It would be interesting to see what the negative publicity has done/will
do to their business and to the number of people refusing to pay the "tip."


jim

JimLane wrote:
> Grizzman wrote:
>
>> "Soprano could not be reached yesterday but his wife, Tina Soprano, said
>> last week it was a matter of principle. "
>>
>> arrested over a principle? can you say "call my attorney"?
>>
>> m
>>
>>
>
> It would be interesting to see what the negative publicity has done/will
> do to their business and to the number of people refusing to pay the "tip."
>
>
> jim


I'll certainly never eat there...

Best regards,
Bob

JimLane wrote:
> Grizzman wrote:
>
>> "Soprano could not be reached yesterday but his wife, Tina Soprano, said
>> last week it was a matter of principle. "
>>
>> arrested over a principle? can you say "call my attorney"?
>>
>> m
>>
>>
>
> It would be interesting to see what the negative publicity has done/will
> do to their business and to the number of people refusing to pay the "tip."
>
>
> jim


I'll certainly never eat there...

Best regards,
Bob

In article > ,
Dog3 <dognospam@adjfkdla;not> wrote:

> "I'm happy to have it behind me, but the whole situation shouldn't have
> happened to begin with," Taveras told The Post-Star of Glens Falls. " ...
> Now I can tell my kids 'Daddy's not a crook.'"
>
> Instead of crook, he's just a cheap asshole.

Maybe. Or maybe the service *was* bad. He left 12%.

--
to respond, change "spamless.invalid" with "optonline.net"
please mail OT responses only

In article > ,
Dog3 <dognospam@adjfkdla;not> wrote:

> "I'm happy to have it behind me, but the whole situation shouldn't have
> happened to begin with," Taveras told The Post-Star of Glens Falls. " ...
> Now I can tell my kids 'Daddy's not a crook.'"
>
> Instead of crook, he's just a cheap asshole.

Maybe. Or maybe the service *was* bad. He left 12%.

--
to respond, change "spamless.invalid" with "optonline.net"
please mail OT responses only

In article > ,
Dog3 <dognospam@adjfkdla;not> wrote:

> "I'm happy to have it behind me, but the whole situation shouldn't have
> happened to begin with," Taveras told The Post-Star of Glens Falls. " ...
> Now I can tell my kids 'Daddy's not a crook.'"
>
> Instead of crook, he's just a cheap asshole.

Maybe. Or maybe the service *was* bad. He left 12%.

--
to respond, change "spamless.invalid" with "optonline.net"
please mail OT responses only

"Dog3" <dognospam@adjfkdla;not> wrote in message
4...
> "Bob (this one)" > :
>
> > http://www.newsday.com/mynews/ny-lit...,4014777.story
> >
> > As it should be.
> >
> > If it's mandatory, it's not a tip, it's a service charge.
> >
> > Pastorio
>
> Good. That whole thing was creepy. I especially liked this part from the
> patron:
>
> "I'm happy to have it behind me, but the whole situation shouldn't have
> happened to begin with," Taveras told The Post-Star of Glens Falls. " ...
> Now I can tell my kids 'Daddy's not a crook.'"
>
> Instead of crook, he's just a cheap asshole.
>

Perhaps you can explain why not leaving a tip (or a big tip) when you get
crappy service makes one a "cheap asshole."


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Dog3" <dognospam@adjfkdla;not> wrote in message
4...
> "Bob (this one)" > :
>
> > http://www.newsday.com/mynews/ny-lit...,4014777.story
> >
> > As it should be.
> >
> > If it's mandatory, it's not a tip, it's a service charge.
> >
> > Pastorio
>
> Good. That whole thing was creepy. I especially liked this part from the
> patron:
>
> "I'm happy to have it behind me, but the whole situation shouldn't have
> happened to begin with," Taveras told The Post-Star of Glens Falls. " ...
> Now I can tell my kids 'Daddy's not a crook.'"
>
> Instead of crook, he's just a cheap asshole.
>

Perhaps you can explain why not leaving a tip (or a big tip) when you get
crappy service makes one a "cheap asshole."


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

Dog3 wrote:

>
> You know for a fact this man got crappy service? According to the article I
> read, he was beligerant and obnoxious. Maybe the service was crappy and his
> behavior was impeccable. I seriously doubt it. No one in their right mind
> would chase a patron down like that, without good cause. We'll never know. I
> will just assume the man was an asshole and the restaurant owner has a few
> screws loose.

You may be right about no one in their right mind chasing a patron like that.
Maybe the person was not in his right mind. Taking on a compulsory tip <?> of
18% might be the first clue that he wasn't.

My mother was in a restaurant with a friend and the service was abominable.
The couple sitting at the next table had equally bad service. My mother asked
the waitress was asked to bring clean utensils because the knifes and forks at
her table were dirty. Their soup was cold, the main course was cold. The
other couple left a small tip, and my mother was glad that they got out of
there before the waitress saw her puny tip, because the girl had run out to
the street to yell and scream at the other couple.

She did not deserve a decent tip, and apparently, she was not in her right
mind.

Dog3 wrote:

>
> You know for a fact this man got crappy service? According to the article I
> read, he was beligerant and obnoxious. Maybe the service was crappy and his
> behavior was impeccable. I seriously doubt it. No one in their right mind
> would chase a patron down like that, without good cause. We'll never know. I
> will just assume the man was an asshole and the restaurant owner has a few
> screws loose.

You may be right about no one in their right mind chasing a patron like that.
Maybe the person was not in his right mind. Taking on a compulsory tip <?> of
18% might be the first clue that he wasn't.

My mother was in a restaurant with a friend and the service was abominable.
The couple sitting at the next table had equally bad service. My mother asked
the waitress was asked to bring clean utensils because the knifes and forks at
her table were dirty. Their soup was cold, the main course was cold. The
other couple left a small tip, and my mother was glad that they got out of
there before the waitress saw her puny tip, because the girl had run out to
the street to yell and scream at the other couple.

She did not deserve a decent tip, and apparently, she was not in her right
mind.

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 00:36:20 -0000, Dog3 <dognospam@adjfkdla;not>
wrote:
[snip usual Aitken whining belligerency]

> No one in their right mind would chase a patron down
> like that, without good cause. We'll never know. I will
> just assume the man was an asshole and the restaurant
> owner has a few screws loose.

He's so crazy he just pulled coup off marketing-wise. He's going to
have a bunch of people flood his restaurant just to see who he is,
what the fuss was over, and (after a few beers) if they can get
arrested, too.

He's crazy like a fox, that owner.

The Ranger

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 00:36:20 -0000, Dog3 <dognospam@adjfkdla;not>
wrote:
[snip usual Aitken whining belligerency]

> No one in their right mind would chase a patron down
> like that, without good cause. We'll never know. I will
> just assume the man was an asshole and the restaurant
> owner has a few screws loose.

He's so crazy he just pulled coup off marketing-wise. He's going to
have a bunch of people flood his restaurant just to see who he is,
what the fuss was over, and (after a few beers) if they can get
arrested, too.

He's crazy like a fox, that owner.

The Ranger

Dog3 wrote:
> "Peter Aitken" >
> m:
>
>
>>"Dog3" <dognospam@adjfkdla;not> wrote in message
.44...
>>
>>>"Bob (this one)" >
:
>>>
>>>
>>>>http://www.newsday.com/mynews/ny-lit...,4014777.story
>>>>
>>>>As it should be.
>>>>
>>>>If it's mandatory, it's not a tip, it's a service charge.
>>>>
>>>>Pastorio
>>>
>>>Good. That whole thing was creepy. I especially liked this part from
>>>the patron:
>>>
>>>"I'm happy to have it behind me, but the whole situation shouldn't
>>>have happened to begin with," Ta
>>>verastoldThePost-StarofGlensFalls.... Now I can tell my kids 'Daddy's
>>>not a crook.'"
>>>
>>>Instead of crook, he's just a cheap asshole.
>>>
>>
>>Perhaps you can explain why not leaving a tip (or a big tip) when you
>>get crappy service makes one a "cheap asshole."
>>
>>
>
>
> You know for a fact this man got crappy service? According to the article
> I read, he was beligerant and obnoxious. Maybe the service was crappy and
> his behavior was impeccable. I seriously doubt it. No one in their right
> mind would chase a patron down like that, without good cause. We'll never
> know. I will just assume the man was an asshole and the restaurant owner
> has a few screws loose.
>
> Michael

And we all know the repercussions of ASSumming, don't we?


jim

Dog3 wrote:
> "Peter Aitken" >
> m:
>
>
>>"Dog3" <dognospam@adjfkdla;not> wrote in message
.44...
>>
>>>"Bob (this one)" >
:
>>>
>>>
>>>>http://www.newsday.com/mynews/ny-lit...,4014777.story
>>>>
>>>>As it should be.
>>>>
>>>>If it's mandatory, it's not a tip, it's a service charge.
>>>>
>>>>Pastorio
>>>
>>>Good. That whole thing was creepy. I especially liked this part from
>>>the patron:
>>>
>>>"I'm happy to have it behind me, but the whole situation shouldn't
>>>have happened to begin with," Ta
>>>verastoldThePost-StarofGlensFalls.... Now I can tell my kids 'Daddy's
>>>not a crook.'"
>>>
>>>Instead of crook, he's just a cheap asshole.
>>>
>>
>>Perhaps you can explain why not leaving a tip (or a big tip) when you
>>get crappy service makes one a "cheap asshole."
>>
>>
>
>
> You know for a fact this man got crappy service? According to the article
> I read, he was beligerant and obnoxious. Maybe the service was crappy and
> his behavior was impeccable. I seriously doubt it. No one in their right
> mind would chase a patron down like that, without good cause. We'll never
> know. I will just assume the man was an asshole and the restaurant owner
> has a few screws loose.
>
> Michael

And we all know the repercussions of ASSumming, don't we?


jim

In article >,
"Bob (this one)" > wrote:

> http://www.newsday.com/mynews/ny-lit...,4014777.story
>
> As it should be.
>
> If it's mandatory, it's not a tip, it's a service charge.
>
> Pastorio
>

yay!!! :-)

IMHO 18% is rather high anyway.
I thought the average was 15% for good service, 10% for so so service
and if I get REALLY bad service, I leave 2 pennies on the table!

For excellent, top rate service (like I got one night at Magic Time
Machine for my mother's birthday), I'll often tip up to 25%. :-)

I believe in rewarding effort.....

K.
--
Men have two emotions: Hungry and Horny. If you see him without an
erection make him a sandwich. -- Anon.

In article >,
JimLane > wrote:

> Grizzman wrote:
> > "Soprano could not be reached yesterday but his wife, Tina Soprano, said
> > last week it was a matter of principle. "
> >
> > arrested over a principle? can you say "call my attorney"?
> >
> > m
> >
> >
>
> It would be interesting to see what the negative publicity has done/will
> do to their business and to the number of people refusing to pay the "tip."
>
>
> jim

I know that I'd never eat there!!!!!

What a bunch of snobs!

K.
--
Men have two emotions: Hungry and Horny. If you see him without an
erection make him a sandwich. -- Anon.

In article >,
JimLane > wrote:

> Grizzman wrote:
> > "Soprano could not be reached yesterday but his wife, Tina Soprano, said
> > last week it was a matter of principle. "
> >
> > arrested over a principle? can you say "call my attorney"?
> >
> > m
> >
> >
>
> It would be interesting to see what the negative publicity has done/will
> do to their business and to the number of people refusing to pay the "tip."
>
>
> jim

I know that I'd never eat there!!!!!

What a bunch of snobs!

K.
--
Men have two emotions: Hungry and Horny. If you see him without an
erection make him a sandwich. -- Anon.

In article > ,
Dog3 <dognospam@adjfkdla;not> wrote:

> "Bob (this one)" > :
>
> > http://www.newsday.com/mynews/ny-lit...,4014777.story
> >
> > As it should be.
> >
> > If it's mandatory, it's not a tip, it's a service charge.
> >
> > Pastorio
>
> Good. That whole thing was creepy. I especially liked this part from the
> patron:
>
> "I'm happy to have it behind me, but the whole situation shouldn't have
> happened to begin with," Taveras told The Post-Star of Glens Falls. " ...
> Now I can tell my kids 'Daddy's not a crook.'"
>
> Instead of crook, he's just a cheap asshole.
>
> Michael

Not if he got bad service.....

WTF should I tip for crappy service?

That is the PROBLEM with mandatory tips!
There is no motivation for the waitstaff to do a good job!

I'm not cheap. As I said in another post, I've been known to tip up to
25%, but I'll be damned if I'll give a tip to a rude, inattentive
waiter/waitress!

K.

--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...user id=katra

In article > ,
Dog3 <dognospam@adjfkdla;not> wrote:

> "Bob (this one)" > :
>
> > http://www.newsday.com/mynews/ny-lit...,4014777.story
> >
> > As it should be.
> >
> > If it's mandatory, it's not a tip, it's a service charge.
> >
> > Pastorio
>
> Good. That whole thing was creepy. I especially liked this part from the
> patron:
>
> "I'm happy to have it behind me, but the whole situation shouldn't have
> happened to begin with," Taveras told The Post-Star of Glens Falls. " ...
> Now I can tell my kids 'Daddy's not a crook.'"
>
> Instead of crook, he's just a cheap asshole.
>
> Michael

Not if he got bad service.....

WTF should I tip for crappy service?

That is the PROBLEM with mandatory tips!
There is no motivation for the waitstaff to do a good job!

I'm not cheap. As I said in another post, I've been known to tip up to
25%, but I'll be damned if I'll give a tip to a rude, inattentive
waiter/waitress!

K.

--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...user id=katra

In article > ,
"Peter Aitken" > wrote:

> "Dog3" <dognospam@adjfkdla;not> wrote in message
> 4...
> > "Bob (this one)" > :
> >
> > > http://www.newsday.com/mynews/ny-lit...,4014777.story
> > >
> > > As it should be.
> > >
> > > If it's mandatory, it's not a tip, it's a service charge.
> > >
> > > Pastorio
> >
> > Good. That whole thing was creepy. I especially liked this part from the
> > patron:
> >
> > "I'm happy to have it behind me, but the whole situation shouldn't have
> > happened to begin with," Taveras told The Post-Star of Glens Falls. " ...
> > Now I can tell my kids 'Daddy's not a crook.'"
> >
> > Instead of crook, he's just a cheap asshole.
> >
>
> Perhaps you can explain why not leaving a tip (or a big tip) when you get
> crappy service makes one a "cheap asshole."

Indeed... ;-)

K.
--
Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

One time on Usenet, Katra > said:

<snip>

> and if I get REALLY bad service, I leave 2 pennies on the table!

This reminds me of an incident that happened in the early 70's,
when I was pretty young. My mother and I had a nice lunch at a
local diner, and I really like the waitress. On the way out, I
put some money on the table for her, just as my mom had done.
It was all that I had, but since I was about 7 years old, it was
a mere two cents. I thought I was being nice, but my mother was
horrified when I told her about it later -- she said what I had
done was terribly insulting, even though she had left a decent
tip herself. I wonder what that long-ago waitress thought when
she saw those two pennies...


--
J.J. in WA ~ mom, vid gamer, novice cook ~
"I rule you!" - Travis of the Cosmos, ATHF
(COLD to HOT for e-mail)

In article >, Katra
> wrote:


> That is the PROBLEM with mandatory tips!
> There is no motivation for the waitstaff to do a good job!


I don't think that's how it works. If you look carefully, they don't say
that you have to *pay* the service charge, just that they are going to
automatically add it to your bill. I've never been in that situation, but
I've often heard that if you get crappy service and complain, management
will take it off the bill.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

Dan Abel wrote:

> I> That is the PROBLEM with mandatory tips!
> > There is no motivation for the waitstaff to do a good job!
>
> I don't think that's how it works. If you look carefully, they don't say
> that you have to *pay* the service charge, just that they are going to
> automatically add it to your bill. I've never been in that situation, but
> I've often heard that if you get crappy service and complain, management
> will take it off the bill.

I have traveled in several western European countries where the service is
included in the menu price, as is tax. The price that you see on the menu is
what shows up on your bill, and your total bill is the sum of the items that
you order. There is no extra tax or service fee. Tips, if any are just small
change. We had excellent service at those places. There was generally
someone in charge to make sure that the wait staff were doing their job
properly and the waiters did not have to job a bunch of silly hoops to wangle
tips out of the customers.

Dan Abel wrote:

> I> That is the PROBLEM with mandatory tips!
> > There is no motivation for the waitstaff to do a good job!
>
> I don't think that's how it works. If you look carefully, they don't say
> that you have to *pay* the service charge, just that they are going to
> automatically add it to your bill. I've never been in that situation, but
> I've often heard that if you get crappy service and complain, management
> will take it off the bill.

I have traveled in several western European countries where the service is
included in the menu price, as is tax. The price that you see on the menu is
what shows up on your bill, and your total bill is the sum of the items that
you order. There is no extra tax or service fee. Tips, if any are just small
change. We had excellent service at those places. There was generally
someone in charge to make sure that the wait staff were doing their job
properly and the waiters did not have to job a bunch of silly hoops to wangle
tips out of the customers.

Dan Abel wrote:

> I> That is the PROBLEM with mandatory tips!
> > There is no motivation for the waitstaff to do a good job!
>
> I don't think that's how it works. If you look carefully, they don't say
> that you have to *pay* the service charge, just that they are going to
> automatically add it to your bill. I've never been in that situation, but
> I've often heard that if you get crappy service and complain, management
> will take it off the bill.

I have traveled in several western European countries where the service is
included in the menu price, as is tax. The price that you see on the menu is
what shows up on your bill, and your total bill is the sum of the items that
you order. There is no extra tax or service fee. Tips, if any are just small
change. We had excellent service at those places. There was generally
someone in charge to make sure that the wait staff were doing their job
properly and the waiters did not have to job a bunch of silly hoops to wangle
tips out of the customers.

On 2004-09-16, Dan Abel > wrote:

> I've often heard that if you get crappy service and complain, management
> will take it off the bill.

That's been my experience. Six of us ate a Chevy's (pre-Pepsico) one day
and the service sucked, the server being rude and inattentive. When they
added 18% to the bill I protested. The server pointed out where the
condition was indicated on the menu. I calmly requested to see the manager
and refused to pay the gratuity, citing the poor sevice. The manager
apologized and we didn't have to pay.

OTOH, if you get bad service or food and complain and get no satisfaction,
raise Hell! Nothing will get management's attention faster than a public
scene.

nb

On 2004-09-16, Dan Abel > wrote:

> I've often heard that if you get crappy service and complain, management
> will take it off the bill.

That's been my experience. Six of us ate a Chevy's (pre-Pepsico) one day
and the service sucked, the server being rude and inattentive. When they
added 18% to the bill I protested. The server pointed out where the
condition was indicated on the menu. I calmly requested to see the manager
and refused to pay the gratuity, citing the poor sevice. The manager
apologized and we didn't have to pay.

OTOH, if you get bad service or food and complain and get no satisfaction,
raise Hell! Nothing will get management's attention faster than a public
scene.

nb

Katra wrote:

> IMHO 18% is rather high anyway.
> I thought the average was 15% for good service,

That's a little low, anymore, but whatever is okay by you. Well,
lower than 15 is not okay for normal service, but you get what I
mean.

Besides, the difference between 15 and 18 is usually not worth
quibbling about, if you do the math.

What's interesting to me is that there is an assumption that if there
is a gratuity already added in, the waitstaff will not perform as
professionals and do their job. Whenever I've been in that situation,
they run around like crazy trying to make sure everyone has their
beverage/dinner/whatever. Just because they wait for a living does
not make them slackers. More often I've noticed my co-diners are
more annoying than anything.

nancy

Katra wrote:

> IMHO 18% is rather high anyway.
> I thought the average was 15% for good service,

That's a little low, anymore, but whatever is okay by you. Well,
lower than 15 is not okay for normal service, but you get what I
mean.

Besides, the difference between 15 and 18 is usually not worth
quibbling about, if you do the math.

What's interesting to me is that there is an assumption that if there
is a gratuity already added in, the waitstaff will not perform as
professionals and do their job. Whenever I've been in that situation,
they run around like crazy trying to make sure everyone has their
beverage/dinner/whatever. Just because they wait for a living does
not make them slackers. More often I've noticed my co-diners are
more annoying than anything.

nancy

One time on Usenet, said:

<snip>

> What's interesting to me is that there is an assumption that if there
> is a gratuity already added in, the waitstaff will not perform as
> professionals and do their job. Whenever I've been in that situation,
> they run around like crazy trying to make sure everyone has their
> beverage/dinner/whatever.

I don't think I've ever been in such a large party that the tip was
automatic, although I've seen in on many a menu over the years.

> Just because they wait for a living does not make them slackers.

Quite true -- a professional waitperson wants you to come back,
it's job security.

> More often I've noticed my co-diners are more annoying than
> anything.

Arg, too true! Although I did have an especially annoying waitress
once -- she ate half of our appetizer! She also happened to be my
mother-in-law... <just teasing>


--
J.J. in WA ~ mom, vid gamer, novice cook ~
"I rule you!" - Travis of the Cosmos, ATHF
(COLD to HOT for e-mail)

One time on Usenet, said:

<snip>

> What's interesting to me is that there is an assumption that if there
> is a gratuity already added in, the waitstaff will not perform as
> professionals and do their job. Whenever I've been in that situation,
> they run around like crazy trying to make sure everyone has their
> beverage/dinner/whatever.

I don't think I've ever been in such a large party that the tip was
automatic, although I've seen in on many a menu over the years.

> Just because they wait for a living does not make them slackers.

Quite true -- a professional waitperson wants you to come back,
it's job security.

> More often I've noticed my co-diners are more annoying than
> anything.

Arg, too true! Although I did have an especially annoying waitress
once -- she ate half of our appetizer! She also happened to be my
mother-in-law... <just teasing>


--
J.J. in WA ~ mom, vid gamer, novice cook ~
"I rule you!" - Travis of the Cosmos, ATHF
(COLD to HOT for e-mail)

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> Katra wrote:
>
> > IMHO 18% is rather high anyway.
> > I thought the average was 15% for good service,
>
> That's a little low, anymore, but whatever is okay by you. Well,
> lower than 15 is not okay for normal service, but you get what I
> mean.
>
> Besides, the difference between 15 and 18 is usually not worth
> quibbling about, if you do the math.
>
> What's interesting to me is that there is an assumption that if there
> is a gratuity already added in, the waitstaff will not perform as
> professionals and do their job. Whenever I've been in that situation,
> they run around like crazy trying to make sure everyone has their
> beverage/dinner/whatever. Just because they wait for a living does
> not make them slackers. More often I've noticed my co-diners are
> more annoying than anything.
>
> nancy

Of course they run around like maniacs with a large party, it's a large
party! And what I've discovered (and also have done) is if the waitstaff
does an excellent job, despite the fact that the tip is included, many
people give a little extra gratuity. It's so nice when that happens!
(Which is why I return the favor.)

kili

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> Katra wrote:
>
> > IMHO 18% is rather high anyway.
> > I thought the average was 15% for good service,
>
> That's a little low, anymore, but whatever is okay by you. Well,
> lower than 15 is not okay for normal service, but you get what I
> mean.
>
> Besides, the difference between 15 and 18 is usually not worth
> quibbling about, if you do the math.
>
> What's interesting to me is that there is an assumption that if there
> is a gratuity already added in, the waitstaff will not perform as
> professionals and do their job. Whenever I've been in that situation,
> they run around like crazy trying to make sure everyone has their
> beverage/dinner/whatever. Just because they wait for a living does
> not make them slackers. More often I've noticed my co-diners are
> more annoying than anything.
>
> nancy

Of course they run around like maniacs with a large party, it's a large
party! And what I've discovered (and also have done) is if the waitstaff
does an excellent job, despite the fact that the tip is included, many
people give a little extra gratuity. It's so nice when that happens!
(Which is why I return the favor.)

kili

Nancy Young wrote:

>>IMHO 18% is rather high anyway.
>>I thought the average was 15% for good service,
>
>
> That's a little low, anymore, but whatever is okay by you. Well,
> lower than 15 is not okay for normal service, but you get what I
> mean.

Yes, a bit low to me also.
I want to extend this ranting a bit to include the
tips paid to delivery people also. Where I work
we all order food from a limited selection of
places nightly. They're hardly haute cuisine
joints admittedly, but I can't believe how some
folks abuse this service. They order, and when the
delivery person comes (and always with separate
checks prepared) wayyyy too many of these people
keep them waiting ("I'll be right there, I have to
go get my money from my locker") and worse yet,
then barely tip anything for their efforts. They
knew the food was ordered, so they had time to get
their money. I'm embarrassed when the delivery
person is held up almost 10 minutes or so after
everyone else has paid for their order and then
these folks don't compensate in any fashion or
even apologize! And some are just plain cheap
tippers even if they're ready with their money.
Goomba

>> Not if he got bad service.....
>
>I agree but I don't think that was the case in this situation.

Obviously, both sides have their own versions of what the dispute was about.
The diner was obviously upset about SOMETHING about the service; the owner's
statement to the press that the diner (or his party) were obnoxious is HIS read
on the incident. The diner had a different view and expressed it by
discounting the tip.

(I still don't understand why a large party should pay a higher than average
percentage in a tip. The volume is greater, so one would expect a bulk
discount, not a surcharge.)

One interpretation that I haven't heard expressed is that the owner was
performing for the sake of his staff. He wanted to show the extent to which he
would back them up in a conflict, so he picked a fight with a patron who (in
his view) had given trouble to his staff.

Neil

>> I thought the average was 15% for good service,
>
>That's a little low, anymore, but whatever is okay by you.

No, 15% is still a general baseline. As menu prices go up, the cut going to
the waitstaff follows it linearly.

Neil

>> I thought the average was 15% for good service,
>
>That's a little low, anymore, but whatever is okay by you.

No, 15% is still a general baseline. As menu prices go up, the cut going to
the waitstaff follows it linearly.

Neil