In article . net>,
"Gregory Morrow" >
wrote:

> OT - ish but there's a little Saturday farmer's market in the school playlot
> around the corner. Sometimes they have a petting zoo/pony rides for the
> kids. When they have the petting zoo they have a "no dogs" rule for the
> farmer's market, as dogs might upset the animals and vv. Well whaddya know
> here comes Mr & Mrs Yuppie with their double - wide stroller and Golden
> Retriever in tow. Ms. Entitlment tries to plead and argue her dog's way in,
> then gets busy on the cell phone calling "the city" (yeah, on Saturday
> morning lol). What a load. And there's a place to tie up yer dog and they
> have water and gratis treats for the pooches, too ...it's not like they're
> casting the dogs adrift or something.

The state and town parks where I go for walks and bike rides have
clearly posted signs that say "No dogs." Yet there are invariably at
least a half dozen people with dogs--and always at least a few without
leashes for the dogs.

--
to respond, change "spamless.invalid" with "optonline.net"
please mail OT responses only

Nancy Young wrote:

> I have a feeling jerks have been around forever.


Stupidity is exacerbated by cell phones Nancy...it's a whole new
dichotomy...

--
Best
Greg

Nancy Young wrote:

> I have a feeling jerks have been around forever.


Stupidity is exacerbated by cell phones Nancy...it's a whole new
dichotomy...

--
Best
Greg

Dog3 wrote:
> zxcvbob > :
>
>
>>Dog3 wrote:
>>
>>>Now, some of the neighborhood bars and restaurants I went to in the
>>>old neighborhood welcomed pooches. On any give Friday night you
>>>would see me at the 34 Club and sitting on either side of me were my
>>>dearly departed Scotties. We'd sit at the bar, they with water, me
>>>with martini. I loved to watch the tourists walk in and stand back.
>>>Dogs all over the place.
>>
>>
>>That sounds kind of morbid. Maybe I read it wrong...
>>
>>Best regards, ;-)
>>Bob
>>
>
>
> It wasn't morbid. It was fun. Still is. I have no idea how the owner gets
> by the inspectors though.
>
> Michael
>


[I hate having to explain a joke] At least the "deary departed Scotties"
probably didn't drink much.

Taxidermically, ;;-)
Bob

Dog3 wrote:
> zxcvbob > :
>
>
>>Dog3 wrote:
>>
>>>Now, some of the neighborhood bars and restaurants I went to in the
>>>old neighborhood welcomed pooches. On any give Friday night you
>>>would see me at the 34 Club and sitting on either side of me were my
>>>dearly departed Scotties. We'd sit at the bar, they with water, me
>>>with martini. I loved to watch the tourists walk in and stand back.
>>>Dogs all over the place.
>>
>>
>>That sounds kind of morbid. Maybe I read it wrong...
>>
>>Best regards, ;-)
>>Bob
>>
>
>
> It wasn't morbid. It was fun. Still is. I have no idea how the owner gets
> by the inspectors though.
>
> Michael
>


[I hate having to explain a joke] At least the "deary departed Scotties"
probably didn't drink much.

Taxidermically, ;;-)
Bob

Dog3 wrote:
> zxcvbob > :
>
>
>>Dog3 wrote:
>>
>>>Now, some of the neighborhood bars and restaurants I went to in the
>>>old neighborhood welcomed pooches. On any give Friday night you
>>>would see me at the 34 Club and sitting on either side of me were my
>>>dearly departed Scotties. We'd sit at the bar, they with water, me
>>>with martini. I loved to watch the tourists walk in and stand back.
>>>Dogs all over the place.
>>
>>
>>That sounds kind of morbid. Maybe I read it wrong...
>>
>>Best regards, ;-)
>>Bob
>>
>
>
> It wasn't morbid. It was fun. Still is. I have no idea how the owner gets
> by the inspectors though.
>
> Michael
>


[I hate having to explain a joke] At least the "deary departed Scotties"
probably didn't drink much.

Taxidermically, ;;-)
Bob

I finally found a way to deal with this;

I move my chair over a bit,
and appear to be listening to every word......

Usally cuts the conversation short.
..... and they look sooooo insulted !

..


On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 21:58:47 -0000, Dog3 <dognospam@adjfkdla;not>
wrote:
>
>
>Yes, we had a cell phoner at the table next to us last week. It was
>annoying as hell. I did not care what his daughter was doing right that
>second and who she was with, yadda, yadda, yadda. It was made worse by his
>boom voice which carried across half the central US.
>
>I was dragged to a chain restaurant by a friend. The Olive Garden. All I
>wanted to do was enjoy my pasta in peace and quiet. The pasta was pertty
>good.
>
>Michael

<rj>

I finally found a way to deal with this;

I move my chair over a bit,
and appear to be listening to every word......

Usally cuts the conversation short.
..... and they look sooooo insulted !

..


On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 21:58:47 -0000, Dog3 <dognospam@adjfkdla;not>
wrote:
>
>
>Yes, we had a cell phoner at the table next to us last week. It was
>annoying as hell. I did not care what his daughter was doing right that
>second and who she was with, yadda, yadda, yadda. It was made worse by his
>boom voice which carried across half the central US.
>
>I was dragged to a chain restaurant by a friend. The Olive Garden. All I
>wanted to do was enjoy my pasta in peace and quiet. The pasta was pertty
>good.
>
>Michael

<rj>

zxcvbob wrote:


> [I hate having to explain a joke] At least the "deary departed Scotties"
> probably didn't drink much.
>
> Taxidermically, ;;-)
> Bob

Nor do they require walking, eh? LOL
Goomba, who still can't figure out why dogs in a
bar would be "morbid" ???

zxcvbob wrote:


> [I hate having to explain a joke] At least the "deary departed Scotties"
> probably didn't drink much.
>
> Taxidermically, ;;-)
> Bob

Nor do they require walking, eh? LOL
Goomba, who still can't figure out why dogs in a
bar would be "morbid" ???

zxcvbob wrote:


> [I hate having to explain a joke] At least the "deary departed Scotties"
> probably didn't drink much.
>
> Taxidermically, ;;-)
> Bob

Nor do they require walking, eh? LOL
Goomba, who still can't figure out why dogs in a
bar would be "morbid" ???

J.J. in WA wrote:

> This reminds me of an incident that happened in the early 70's,
> when I was pretty young. My mother and I had a nice lunch at a
> local diner, and I really like the waitress. On the way out, I
> put some money on the table for her, just as my mom had done.
> It was all that I had, but since I was about 7 years old, it was
> a mere two cents. I thought I was being nice, but my mother was
> horrified when I told her about it later -- she said what I had
> done was terribly insulting even though she had left a decent
> tip herself. I wonder what that long-ago waitress thought when
> she saw those two pennies...


She probably thought you were a sweet little boy, smiled to herself and
never gave it another thought. A penny left on the table can be an
insult if there are other indications that the customer means to be
insulting, but it's not necessarily an insult if everything else is OK.
I've waitressed. I've seen people pick up change off the floor and
leave it on the table or empty their pockets of change. As long as the
all-over tip is acceptable, I just put the change in my pocket.


I'd love to see a world where tipping at restaurants was like tipping at
the car mechanic's, i.e., non-existent. When I get my brakes fixed or
my oil changed, I don't entice the mechanic to do a good job with the
promise of a tip. I expect him to do a good job, or I don't go back
there again. If, for some reason, the service isn't acceptable or I
feel that I've been treated rudely, I'd go straight to the owner or
manager. I'm sure I wouldn't get away with saying "the mechanic was
impatient and abrupt so I'm driving off with the new radiator without
paying for it."


Thus with restaurants. The servers should give good service because
that's their job as employees of the restaurant. The restaurant should
pay them because they're employees the same way garage mechanics are
paid. If there's a problem with the service, the customer should
complain to the management or not return to the restaurant. At least,
that's the way I'd do it if I could click my heels together three times
and get what I want. Last I checked, no one was letting me run the world.


With that in mind, I think a mandatory service charge, called a service
charge, and put clearly on the menu, is a good idea. Ideally, it would
be figured into the price of the food, but anything that removes
arbitrary nature of the tip appeals to me. For this idea to work, the
service charge would be on the bill, and anything extra would have to be
returned to the customer with an explanation that the bill has been paid
in full.


Bad service can be a result of rude or incompetent servers, but it can
also be endemic of a badly managed restaurant. Someone gave the example
of the customer asking for clean silverware and not getting it. I
remember that one.


The restaurant didn't have enough silverware for the busy lunch period.
The dishwashers couldn't run the dishwashing machines fast enough to
supply clean silver. Waitresses started hoarding silver. It was worth
it to hand wash the silver themselves so they'd have it for their next
customers rather than put it in the bus tray and risk losing it. Or
they'd try to gather up enough silver first thing in the morning to last
them all day. The waitresses set their tables, but other waitresses
would take clean silver off the set tables from another section when
there wasn't any in the clean silver trays. Alliances would form as
waitresses would give clean silver to their friends but not people they
didn't like.


I was young and naive and didn't realize the nuances of what was going
on. I wouldn't have been any good at the game if I had understood. I
did sometimes yell at or beg the dishwashers to give me silverware when
the customers asked me for it, but the dishwashers shrugged their
shoulders or laughed in my face. Other waitresses might have gotten
silverware by giving the dishwashers a portion of their tips or sexual
favors. I'm glad I don't know that if that was the case. I can tell
you that the few weeks I kept that job was way too long, that I was a
terrible waitress, too dreamy and unaware, and that there was no way any
of that could be explained to a customer who just made a simple request
for clean silverware.


--Lia

J.J. in WA wrote:

> This reminds me of an incident that happened in the early 70's,
> when I was pretty young. My mother and I had a nice lunch at a
> local diner, and I really like the waitress. On the way out, I
> put some money on the table for her, just as my mom had done.
> It was all that I had, but since I was about 7 years old, it was
> a mere two cents. I thought I was being nice, but my mother was
> horrified when I told her about it later -- she said what I had
> done was terribly insulting even though she had left a decent
> tip herself. I wonder what that long-ago waitress thought when
> she saw those two pennies...


She probably thought you were a sweet little boy, smiled to herself and
never gave it another thought. A penny left on the table can be an
insult if there are other indications that the customer means to be
insulting, but it's not necessarily an insult if everything else is OK.
I've waitressed. I've seen people pick up change off the floor and
leave it on the table or empty their pockets of change. As long as the
all-over tip is acceptable, I just put the change in my pocket.


I'd love to see a world where tipping at restaurants was like tipping at
the car mechanic's, i.e., non-existent. When I get my brakes fixed or
my oil changed, I don't entice the mechanic to do a good job with the
promise of a tip. I expect him to do a good job, or I don't go back
there again. If, for some reason, the service isn't acceptable or I
feel that I've been treated rudely, I'd go straight to the owner or
manager. I'm sure I wouldn't get away with saying "the mechanic was
impatient and abrupt so I'm driving off with the new radiator without
paying for it."


Thus with restaurants. The servers should give good service because
that's their job as employees of the restaurant. The restaurant should
pay them because they're employees the same way garage mechanics are
paid. If there's a problem with the service, the customer should
complain to the management or not return to the restaurant. At least,
that's the way I'd do it if I could click my heels together three times
and get what I want. Last I checked, no one was letting me run the world.


With that in mind, I think a mandatory service charge, called a service
charge, and put clearly on the menu, is a good idea. Ideally, it would
be figured into the price of the food, but anything that removes
arbitrary nature of the tip appeals to me. For this idea to work, the
service charge would be on the bill, and anything extra would have to be
returned to the customer with an explanation that the bill has been paid
in full.


Bad service can be a result of rude or incompetent servers, but it can
also be endemic of a badly managed restaurant. Someone gave the example
of the customer asking for clean silverware and not getting it. I
remember that one.


The restaurant didn't have enough silverware for the busy lunch period.
The dishwashers couldn't run the dishwashing machines fast enough to
supply clean silver. Waitresses started hoarding silver. It was worth
it to hand wash the silver themselves so they'd have it for their next
customers rather than put it in the bus tray and risk losing it. Or
they'd try to gather up enough silver first thing in the morning to last
them all day. The waitresses set their tables, but other waitresses
would take clean silver off the set tables from another section when
there wasn't any in the clean silver trays. Alliances would form as
waitresses would give clean silver to their friends but not people they
didn't like.


I was young and naive and didn't realize the nuances of what was going
on. I wouldn't have been any good at the game if I had understood. I
did sometimes yell at or beg the dishwashers to give me silverware when
the customers asked me for it, but the dishwashers shrugged their
shoulders or laughed in my face. Other waitresses might have gotten
silverware by giving the dishwashers a portion of their tips or sexual
favors. I'm glad I don't know that if that was the case. I can tell
you that the few weeks I kept that job was way too long, that I was a
terrible waitress, too dreamy and unaware, and that there was no way any
of that could be explained to a customer who just made a simple request
for clean silverware.


--Lia

J.J. in WA wrote:

> This reminds me of an incident that happened in the early 70's,
> when I was pretty young. My mother and I had a nice lunch at a
> local diner, and I really like the waitress. On the way out, I
> put some money on the table for her, just as my mom had done.
> It was all that I had, but since I was about 7 years old, it was
> a mere two cents. I thought I was being nice, but my mother was
> horrified when I told her about it later -- she said what I had
> done was terribly insulting even though she had left a decent
> tip herself. I wonder what that long-ago waitress thought when
> she saw those two pennies...


She probably thought you were a sweet little boy, smiled to herself and
never gave it another thought. A penny left on the table can be an
insult if there are other indications that the customer means to be
insulting, but it's not necessarily an insult if everything else is OK.
I've waitressed. I've seen people pick up change off the floor and
leave it on the table or empty their pockets of change. As long as the
all-over tip is acceptable, I just put the change in my pocket.


I'd love to see a world where tipping at restaurants was like tipping at
the car mechanic's, i.e., non-existent. When I get my brakes fixed or
my oil changed, I don't entice the mechanic to do a good job with the
promise of a tip. I expect him to do a good job, or I don't go back
there again. If, for some reason, the service isn't acceptable or I
feel that I've been treated rudely, I'd go straight to the owner or
manager. I'm sure I wouldn't get away with saying "the mechanic was
impatient and abrupt so I'm driving off with the new radiator without
paying for it."


Thus with restaurants. The servers should give good service because
that's their job as employees of the restaurant. The restaurant should
pay them because they're employees the same way garage mechanics are
paid. If there's a problem with the service, the customer should
complain to the management or not return to the restaurant. At least,
that's the way I'd do it if I could click my heels together three times
and get what I want. Last I checked, no one was letting me run the world.


With that in mind, I think a mandatory service charge, called a service
charge, and put clearly on the menu, is a good idea. Ideally, it would
be figured into the price of the food, but anything that removes
arbitrary nature of the tip appeals to me. For this idea to work, the
service charge would be on the bill, and anything extra would have to be
returned to the customer with an explanation that the bill has been paid
in full.


Bad service can be a result of rude or incompetent servers, but it can
also be endemic of a badly managed restaurant. Someone gave the example
of the customer asking for clean silverware and not getting it. I
remember that one.


The restaurant didn't have enough silverware for the busy lunch period.
The dishwashers couldn't run the dishwashing machines fast enough to
supply clean silver. Waitresses started hoarding silver. It was worth
it to hand wash the silver themselves so they'd have it for their next
customers rather than put it in the bus tray and risk losing it. Or
they'd try to gather up enough silver first thing in the morning to last
them all day. The waitresses set their tables, but other waitresses
would take clean silver off the set tables from another section when
there wasn't any in the clean silver trays. Alliances would form as
waitresses would give clean silver to their friends but not people they
didn't like.


I was young and naive and didn't realize the nuances of what was going
on. I wouldn't have been any good at the game if I had understood. I
did sometimes yell at or beg the dishwashers to give me silverware when
the customers asked me for it, but the dishwashers shrugged their
shoulders or laughed in my face. Other waitresses might have gotten
silverware by giving the dishwashers a portion of their tips or sexual
favors. I'm glad I don't know that if that was the case. I can tell
you that the few weeks I kept that job was way too long, that I was a
terrible waitress, too dreamy and unaware, and that there was no way any
of that could be explained to a customer who just made a simple request
for clean silverware.


--Lia

Dan Abel wrote:

> So for those of you who hate cell phones in restaurants, would they be OK
> if people used a normal voice?


Good question. I'd say the louder voice is about 70% of the problem.
The rest has to do with the sense that the person isn't there, isn't
paying attention, isn't part of the community, can't be brought back in.


In a few memorable instances, I've been in a situation where someone
ignored my presence altogether, didn't just avoid eye contact but
pretended I wasn't there at all even though addressed politely. I can't
explain why it was so infuriating, but it has stayed with me years later
though you'd think it was a small thing. Someone on a cell phone in a
public place has that effect. They're there, but they're pretending
you're not.


If 2 people are chatting and I need to get their attention to ask a
question, I can make eye contact and break in that way. I can listen
for a pause in the conversation and time my interuption. They'll see
that I need to get in, make room for me, pay attention, then go back to
their conversation. With the cell phone, there's something normal about
leaving the person alone until they're metaphorically back in the room.
They've been there the whole time, but somehow they're not there too.


Cell phones break all the rules of normal communications and body
language. Even when I'm with someone with a cell phone, and even if
they have the phone on vibrate, and even if I understand why they need
one, and even if they only glance at the number and don't take the call,
I still find it disconcerting to be in the middle of saying something
and have my companion's attention drawn elsewhere by something I can't
see, hear or feel. There's something rude even in that.


--Lia

Dan Abel wrote:

> So for those of you who hate cell phones in restaurants, would they be OK
> if people used a normal voice?


Good question. I'd say the louder voice is about 70% of the problem.
The rest has to do with the sense that the person isn't there, isn't
paying attention, isn't part of the community, can't be brought back in.


In a few memorable instances, I've been in a situation where someone
ignored my presence altogether, didn't just avoid eye contact but
pretended I wasn't there at all even though addressed politely. I can't
explain why it was so infuriating, but it has stayed with me years later
though you'd think it was a small thing. Someone on a cell phone in a
public place has that effect. They're there, but they're pretending
you're not.


If 2 people are chatting and I need to get their attention to ask a
question, I can make eye contact and break in that way. I can listen
for a pause in the conversation and time my interuption. They'll see
that I need to get in, make room for me, pay attention, then go back to
their conversation. With the cell phone, there's something normal about
leaving the person alone until they're metaphorically back in the room.
They've been there the whole time, but somehow they're not there too.


Cell phones break all the rules of normal communications and body
language. Even when I'm with someone with a cell phone, and even if
they have the phone on vibrate, and even if I understand why they need
one, and even if they only glance at the number and don't take the call,
I still find it disconcerting to be in the middle of saying something
and have my companion's attention drawn elsewhere by something I can't
see, hear or feel. There's something rude even in that.


--Lia

Dan Abel wrote:

> So for those of you who hate cell phones in restaurants, would they be OK
> if people used a normal voice?


Good question. I'd say the louder voice is about 70% of the problem.
The rest has to do with the sense that the person isn't there, isn't
paying attention, isn't part of the community, can't be brought back in.


In a few memorable instances, I've been in a situation where someone
ignored my presence altogether, didn't just avoid eye contact but
pretended I wasn't there at all even though addressed politely. I can't
explain why it was so infuriating, but it has stayed with me years later
though you'd think it was a small thing. Someone on a cell phone in a
public place has that effect. They're there, but they're pretending
you're not.


If 2 people are chatting and I need to get their attention to ask a
question, I can make eye contact and break in that way. I can listen
for a pause in the conversation and time my interuption. They'll see
that I need to get in, make room for me, pay attention, then go back to
their conversation. With the cell phone, there's something normal about
leaving the person alone until they're metaphorically back in the room.
They've been there the whole time, but somehow they're not there too.


Cell phones break all the rules of normal communications and body
language. Even when I'm with someone with a cell phone, and even if
they have the phone on vibrate, and even if I understand why they need
one, and even if they only glance at the number and don't take the call,
I still find it disconcerting to be in the middle of saying something
and have my companion's attention drawn elsewhere by something I can't
see, hear or feel. There's something rude even in that.


--Lia

"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
news:Ra23d.115302$3l3.31603@attbi_s03...
> Dan Abel wrote:
>
> > So for those of you who hate cell phones in restaurants, would they be
OK
> > if people used a normal voice?
>
>
> Good question. I'd say the louder voice is about 70% of the problem.
> The rest has to do with the sense that the person isn't there, isn't
> paying attention, isn't part of the community, can't be brought back in.
>
>
> In a few memorable instances, I've been in a situation where someone
> ignored my presence altogether, didn't just avoid eye contact but
> pretended I wasn't there at all even though addressed politely. I can't
> explain why it was so infuriating, but it has stayed with me years later
> though you'd think it was a small thing. Someone on a cell phone in a
> public place has that effect. They're there, but they're pretending
> you're not.
>
>
> If 2 people are chatting and I need to get their attention to ask a
> question, I can make eye contact and break in that way. I can listen
> for a pause in the conversation and time my interuption. They'll see
> that I need to get in, make room for me, pay attention, then go back to
> their conversation. With the cell phone, there's something normal about
> leaving the person alone until they're metaphorically back in the room.
> They've been there the whole time, but somehow they're not there too.
>
>
> Cell phones break all the rules of normal communications and body
> language. Even when I'm with someone with a cell phone, and even if
> they have the phone on vibrate, and even if I understand why they need
> one, and even if they only glance at the number and don't take the call,
> I still find it disconcerting to be in the middle of saying something
> and have my companion's attention drawn elsewhere by something I can't
> see, hear or feel. There's something rude even in that.
>
>
> --Lia
>
>

Your post is very perceptive and to the point. It applies also to the
nitwits who use a cell phone while driving - they are "not there" and their
driving shows it.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
news:Ra23d.115302$3l3.31603@attbi_s03...
> Dan Abel wrote:
>
> > So for those of you who hate cell phones in restaurants, would they be
OK
> > if people used a normal voice?
>
>
> Good question. I'd say the louder voice is about 70% of the problem.
> The rest has to do with the sense that the person isn't there, isn't
> paying attention, isn't part of the community, can't be brought back in.
>
>
> In a few memorable instances, I've been in a situation where someone
> ignored my presence altogether, didn't just avoid eye contact but
> pretended I wasn't there at all even though addressed politely. I can't
> explain why it was so infuriating, but it has stayed with me years later
> though you'd think it was a small thing. Someone on a cell phone in a
> public place has that effect. They're there, but they're pretending
> you're not.
>
>
> If 2 people are chatting and I need to get their attention to ask a
> question, I can make eye contact and break in that way. I can listen
> for a pause in the conversation and time my interuption. They'll see
> that I need to get in, make room for me, pay attention, then go back to
> their conversation. With the cell phone, there's something normal about
> leaving the person alone until they're metaphorically back in the room.
> They've been there the whole time, but somehow they're not there too.
>
>
> Cell phones break all the rules of normal communications and body
> language. Even when I'm with someone with a cell phone, and even if
> they have the phone on vibrate, and even if I understand why they need
> one, and even if they only glance at the number and don't take the call,
> I still find it disconcerting to be in the middle of saying something
> and have my companion's attention drawn elsewhere by something I can't
> see, hear or feel. There's something rude even in that.
>
>
> --Lia
>
>

Your post is very perceptive and to the point. It applies also to the
nitwits who use a cell phone while driving - they are "not there" and their
driving shows it.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
news:Ra23d.115302$3l3.31603@attbi_s03...
> Dan Abel wrote:
>
> > So for those of you who hate cell phones in restaurants, would they be
OK
> > if people used a normal voice?
>
>
> Good question. I'd say the louder voice is about 70% of the problem.
> The rest has to do with the sense that the person isn't there, isn't
> paying attention, isn't part of the community, can't be brought back in.
>
>
> In a few memorable instances, I've been in a situation where someone
> ignored my presence altogether, didn't just avoid eye contact but
> pretended I wasn't there at all even though addressed politely. I can't
> explain why it was so infuriating, but it has stayed with me years later
> though you'd think it was a small thing. Someone on a cell phone in a
> public place has that effect. They're there, but they're pretending
> you're not.
>
>
> If 2 people are chatting and I need to get their attention to ask a
> question, I can make eye contact and break in that way. I can listen
> for a pause in the conversation and time my interuption. They'll see
> that I need to get in, make room for me, pay attention, then go back to
> their conversation. With the cell phone, there's something normal about
> leaving the person alone until they're metaphorically back in the room.
> They've been there the whole time, but somehow they're not there too.
>
>
> Cell phones break all the rules of normal communications and body
> language. Even when I'm with someone with a cell phone, and even if
> they have the phone on vibrate, and even if I understand why they need
> one, and even if they only glance at the number and don't take the call,
> I still find it disconcerting to be in the middle of saying something
> and have my companion's attention drawn elsewhere by something I can't
> see, hear or feel. There's something rude even in that.
>
>
> --Lia
>
>

Your post is very perceptive and to the point. It applies also to the
nitwits who use a cell phone while driving - they are "not there" and their
driving shows it.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

Peter Aitken wrote:

> Your post is very perceptive and to the point. It applies also to the
> nitwits who use a cell phone while driving - they are "not there" and their
> driving shows it.

They don't see themselves so they refuse to believe it. Cell phone
use in moving cars should be banned entirely. Impossible, I know.

nancy

Peter Aitken wrote:

> Your post is very perceptive and to the point. It applies also to the
> nitwits who use a cell phone while driving - they are "not there" and their
> driving shows it.

They don't see themselves so they refuse to believe it. Cell phone
use in moving cars should be banned entirely. Impossible, I know.

nancy

Peter Aitken wrote:

> Your post is very perceptive and to the point. It applies also to the
> nitwits who use a cell phone while driving - they are "not there" and their
> driving shows it.

They don't see themselves so they refuse to believe it. Cell phone
use in moving cars should be banned entirely. Impossible, I know.

nancy

Julia Altshuler > wrote in
news:Ra23d.115302$3l3.31603@attbi_s03:

> Subject: was- Tip case tipped out of court - now, cell phones
> From: Julia Altshuler >
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
>
> Dan Abel wrote:
>
>> So for those of you who hate cell phones in restaurants, would they
>> be OK if people used a normal voice?
>
>
> Good question. I'd say the louder voice is about 70% of the problem.
> The rest has to do with the sense that the person isn't there, isn't
> paying attention, isn't part of the community, can't be brought back
> in.
>

Julia, I doubt that anyone could have said this better, and I agree
totally. You have really penetrated all the details.

--
Wayne in Phoenix

unmunge as w-e-b

*If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.
*A mind is a terrible thing to lose.

Julia Altshuler > wrote in
news:Ra23d.115302$3l3.31603@attbi_s03:

> Subject: was- Tip case tipped out of court - now, cell phones
> From: Julia Altshuler >
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
>
> Dan Abel wrote:
>
>> So for those of you who hate cell phones in restaurants, would they
>> be OK if people used a normal voice?
>
>
> Good question. I'd say the louder voice is about 70% of the problem.
> The rest has to do with the sense that the person isn't there, isn't
> paying attention, isn't part of the community, can't be brought back
> in.
>

Julia, I doubt that anyone could have said this better, and I agree
totally. You have really penetrated all the details.

--
Wayne in Phoenix

unmunge as w-e-b

*If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.
*A mind is a terrible thing to lose.

In article >, wrote:

> Dan Abel wrote:

> > So for those of you who hate cell phones in restaurants, would they be OK
> > if people used a normal voice?
>
> No. It's very annoying everywhere.


I get the concept that you and some other people find cell phones
annoying, what I don't understand is why? Truth is, sometimes things are
just annoying because they are, and there isn't an explanation. But if
there is, I'm asking what it is because I'm curious.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

In article >, wrote:

> Dan Abel wrote:

> > So for those of you who hate cell phones in restaurants, would they be OK
> > if people used a normal voice?
>
> No. It's very annoying everywhere.


I get the concept that you and some other people find cell phones
annoying, what I don't understand is why? Truth is, sometimes things are
just annoying because they are, and there isn't an explanation. But if
there is, I'm asking what it is because I'm curious.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

"Dan Abel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, wrote:
>
> > Dan Abel wrote:
>
> > > So for those of you who hate cell phones in restaurants, would they be
OK
> > > if people used a normal voice?
> >
> > No. It's very annoying everywhere.
>
>
> I get the concept that you and some other people find cell phones
> annoying, what I don't understand is why? Truth is, sometimes things are
> just annoying because they are, and there isn't an explanation. But if
> there is, I'm asking what it is because I'm curious.
>

For me it's not the phones per se but the way many people use them. The
extra-loud voice is the usual giveaway, and such voices are annoying. Some
people have learned to use the phones in a normal voice or perhaps a lower
than usual voice and they are not annoying at all.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

In article >,
(Dan Abel) wrote:

> I'm not trying to be critical, I'm just curious as to why
> people are bothered by cell phones in restaurants.

They ring. Frequently. Often in annoying ditties.

The people talk loudly into them. Louder than they do to their
companions. They are also often talking about personal things that one
wouldn't speak about loudly anyway. Then, they glare at you if you look
at them.

Regards,
Ranee (who has yet to dine with any person who rings, let alone sings
the tune to pop songs, show tunes or operas every few minutes)

--
Remove Do Not and Spam to email

"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

See my Blog at: http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
Finished Objects: http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?c=tll9yyz...j&x=1&y=9e5ebo

In article >,
(Dan Abel) wrote:

> I'm not trying to be critical, I'm just curious as to why
> people are bothered by cell phones in restaurants.

They ring. Frequently. Often in annoying ditties.

The people talk loudly into them. Louder than they do to their
companions. They are also often talking about personal things that one
wouldn't speak about loudly anyway. Then, they glare at you if you look
at them.

Regards,
Ranee (who has yet to dine with any person who rings, let alone sings
the tune to pop songs, show tunes or operas every few minutes)

--
Remove Do Not and Spam to email

"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

See my Blog at: http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
Finished Objects: http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?c=tll9yyz...j&x=1&y=9e5ebo

In article >,
(Dan Abel) wrote:

> So for those of you who hate cell phones in restaurants, would they be OK
> if people used a normal voice?

More so. The other part of it is the ringing, though. If it were on
vibrate, so nobody else had to hear it that would be better. I also
feel for their companions, because they are being ignored so this person
can have a (usually) trivial phone conversation. Even if the ringer
were off, and the person were speaking in a normal tone, I would be
offended if s/he answered every call and ignored me to talk about
idiotic things throughout dinner. Rich has one for work, and he
silences it when we are out, keeps it on vibrate, it's the batphone for
emergencies, so he does sometimes have to answer it, but he checks the
number first, and unless it is one of a few key numbers, he lets them
leave a message so he can call back afterward. When we're at church or
bible study or something like that, he turns it off. He would not sit
there and yap on the phone while we were out at dinner.

Regards,
Ranee

--
Remove Do Not and Spam to email

"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

See my Blog at: http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
Finished Objects: http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?c=tll9yyz...j&x=1&y=9e5ebo

In article >,
(Dan Abel) wrote:

> So for those of you who hate cell phones in restaurants, would they be OK
> if people used a normal voice?

More so. The other part of it is the ringing, though. If it were on
vibrate, so nobody else had to hear it that would be better. I also
feel for their companions, because they are being ignored so this person
can have a (usually) trivial phone conversation. Even if the ringer
were off, and the person were speaking in a normal tone, I would be
offended if s/he answered every call and ignored me to talk about
idiotic things throughout dinner. Rich has one for work, and he
silences it when we are out, keeps it on vibrate, it's the batphone for
emergencies, so he does sometimes have to answer it, but he checks the
number first, and unless it is one of a few key numbers, he lets them
leave a message so he can call back afterward. When we're at church or
bible study or something like that, he turns it off. He would not sit
there and yap on the phone while we were out at dinner.

Regards,
Ranee

--
Remove Do Not and Spam to email

"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

See my Blog at: http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
Finished Objects: http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?c=tll9yyz...j&x=1&y=9e5ebo

In article >, Ranee
Mueller > wrote:

> In article >,
> (Dan Abel) wrote:
>
> > So for those of you who hate cell phones in restaurants, would they be OK
> > if people used a normal voice?
>
> More so. The other part of it is the ringing, though. If it were on
> vibrate, so nobody else had to hear it that would be better. I also
> feel for their companions, because they are being ignored so this person
> can have a (usually) trivial phone conversation. Even if the ringer
> were off, and the person were speaking in a normal tone, I would be
> offended if s/he answered every call and ignored me to talk about
> idiotic things throughout dinner.


I certainly agree with your last comment. However, I've read a whole lot
of complaints about cell phones in restaurants on this group, but every
single complaint involved somebody at another table, and not one single
complaint involved a person at their own table. Coincidence?

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

In article >, Ranee
Mueller > wrote:

> In article >,
> (Dan Abel) wrote:
>
> > So for those of you who hate cell phones in restaurants, would they be OK
> > if people used a normal voice?
>
> More so. The other part of it is the ringing, though. If it were on
> vibrate, so nobody else had to hear it that would be better. I also
> feel for their companions, because they are being ignored so this person
> can have a (usually) trivial phone conversation. Even if the ringer
> were off, and the person were speaking in a normal tone, I would be
> offended if s/he answered every call and ignored me to talk about
> idiotic things throughout dinner.


I certainly agree with your last comment. However, I've read a whole lot
of complaints about cell phones in restaurants on this group, but every
single complaint involved somebody at another table, and not one single
complaint involved a person at their own table. Coincidence?

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

Dan Abel wrote:
> In article >, Ranee
> Mueller > wrote:
>
>
>>In article >,
(Dan Abel) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>So for those of you who hate cell phones in restaurants, would they be OK
>>>if people used a normal voice?
>>
>> More so. The other part of it is the ringing, though. If it were on
>>vibrate, so nobody else had to hear it that would be better. I also
>>feel for their companions, because they are being ignored so this person
>>can have a (usually) trivial phone conversation. Even if the ringer
>>were off, and the person were speaking in a normal tone, I would be
>>offended if s/he answered every call and ignored me to talk about
>>idiotic things throughout dinner.
>
>
>
> I certainly agree with your last comment. However, I've read a whole lot
> of complaints about cell phones in restaurants on this group, but every
> single complaint involved somebody at another table, and not one single
> complaint involved a person at their own table. Coincidence?



It just means we have uncommonly sophisticated dinner companions. Not
like *those* people at that other table. ;-)

Bob

Dan Abel wrote:
> In article >, Ranee
> Mueller > wrote:
>
>
>>In article >,
(Dan Abel) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>So for those of you who hate cell phones in restaurants, would they be OK
>>>if people used a normal voice?
>>
>> More so. The other part of it is the ringing, though. If it were on
>>vibrate, so nobody else had to hear it that would be better. I also
>>feel for their companions, because they are being ignored so this person
>>can have a (usually) trivial phone conversation. Even if the ringer
>>were off, and the person were speaking in a normal tone, I would be
>>offended if s/he answered every call and ignored me to talk about
>>idiotic things throughout dinner.
>
>
>
> I certainly agree with your last comment. However, I've read a whole lot
> of complaints about cell phones in restaurants on this group, but every
> single complaint involved somebody at another table, and not one single
> complaint involved a person at their own table. Coincidence?



It just means we have uncommonly sophisticated dinner companions. Not
like *those* people at that other table. ;-)

Bob

Dan Abel wrote:

> I certainly agree with your last comment. However, I've read a whole lot
> of complaints about cell phones in restaurants on this group, but every
> single complaint involved somebody at another table, and not one single
> complaint involved a person at their own table. Coincidence?

Perhaps we have good taste in friends? One time my friend needed to
get in touch with her kid, she went into the vestibule to make sure
he was home and doing his homework. She didn't just sit there and
yack away while I twiddled my thumbs.

nancy

Dan Abel wrote:

> I certainly agree with your last comment. However, I've read a whole lot
> of complaints about cell phones in restaurants on this group, but every
> single complaint involved somebody at another table, and not one single
> complaint involved a person at their own table. Coincidence?

Perhaps we have good taste in friends? One time my friend needed to
get in touch with her kid, she went into the vestibule to make sure
he was home and doing his homework. She didn't just sit there and
yack away while I twiddled my thumbs.

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> Dan Abel wrote:
>
> > I certainly agree with your last comment. However, I've read a whole
lot
> > of complaints about cell phones in restaurants on this group, but every
> > single complaint involved somebody at another table, and not one single
> > complaint involved a person at their own table. Coincidence?
>
> Perhaps we have good taste in friends? One time my friend needed to
> get in touch with her kid, she went into the vestibule to make sure
> he was home and doing his homework. She didn't just sit there and
> yack away while I twiddled my thumbs.
>
> nancy

Exactly! Some people have class, others don't.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> Dan Abel wrote:
>
> > I certainly agree with your last comment. However, I've read a whole
lot
> > of complaints about cell phones in restaurants on this group, but every
> > single complaint involved somebody at another table, and not one single
> > complaint involved a person at their own table. Coincidence?
>
> Perhaps we have good taste in friends? One time my friend needed to
> get in touch with her kid, she went into the vestibule to make sure
> he was home and doing his homework. She didn't just sit there and
> yack away while I twiddled my thumbs.
>
> nancy

Exactly! Some people have class, others don't.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.