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Soaking beans?
Hey,
As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this really necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before cooking them? Thanks for any help. --Erica |
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"Erica" > wrote in message om... > Hey, > > As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this really > necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before cooking them? > > Thanks for any help. > > --Erica From what I've heard it's not really necessary. Cuts down on the cooking time slightly, but not necessary. I use the quick start method (more than likely a waste of time, I do it out of habit). I put the sorted and rinsed beans in a pot, bring them to a boil, then simmer for about 2 minutes. Then I put the lid on and let them sit for an hour. Chris in Pearland, TX |
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>(Erica)
> >As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this really >necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before cooking them? Saves cooking time, also helps significantly in removing the fart fairies. ---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- ********* "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." Sheldon ```````````` |
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>(Erica)
> >As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this really >necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before cooking them? Saves cooking time, also helps significantly in removing the fart fairies. ---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- ********* "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." Sheldon ```````````` |
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Christine wrote:
> "Erica" > wrote in message > om... > >>Hey, >> >>As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this really >>necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before cooking them? >> >>Thanks for any help. >> >>--Erica > > > From what I've heard it's not really necessary. Cuts down on the cooking > time slightly, but not necessary. > > I use the quick start method (more than likely a waste of time, I do it out > of habit). I put the sorted and rinsed beans in a pot, bring them to a > boil, then simmer for about 2 minutes. Then I put the lid on and let them > sit for an hour. > > Chris in Pearland, TX > > I find a pressure cooker does a fine job, with the exception of boston baked beans which are to be cooked very slowly. Rich -- "Dum Spiro, Spero." As long as I breath, I hope. Cicero |
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Christine wrote:
> "Erica" > wrote in message > om... > >>Hey, >> >>As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this really >>necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before cooking them? >> >>Thanks for any help. >> >>--Erica > > > From what I've heard it's not really necessary. Cuts down on the cooking > time slightly, but not necessary. > > I use the quick start method (more than likely a waste of time, I do it out > of habit). I put the sorted and rinsed beans in a pot, bring them to a > boil, then simmer for about 2 minutes. Then I put the lid on and let them > sit for an hour. > > Chris in Pearland, TX > > I find a pressure cooker does a fine job, with the exception of boston baked beans which are to be cooked very slowly. Rich -- "Dum Spiro, Spero." As long as I breath, I hope. Cicero |
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On 16 Sep 2004 14:46:19 -0700, Erica >
wrote: > Hey, > > As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this > really necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before > cooking them? > If you just cook them (*most* of them), they will be mush before they are done, severely over-cooked. You can put them in cold water, bring it to a boil, remove from heat and let sit covered for an hour, then cook...But it is better to soak them for 8+ hours. AC |
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On 16 Sep 2004 14:46:19 -0700, Erica >
wrote: > Hey, > > As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this > really necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before > cooking them? > If you just cook them (*most* of them), they will be mush before they are done, severely over-cooked. You can put them in cold water, bring it to a boil, remove from heat and let sit covered for an hour, then cook...But it is better to soak them for 8+ hours. AC |
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Christine wrote:
> "Erica" > wrote in message > om... > >>Hey, >> >>As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this really >>necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before cooking them? >> >>Thanks for any help. >> >>--Erica > > > From what I've heard it's not really necessary. Cuts down on the cooking > time slightly, but not necessary. > > I use the quick start method (more than likely a waste of time, I do it out > of habit). I put the sorted and rinsed beans in a pot, bring them to a > boil, then simmer for about 2 minutes. Then I put the lid on and let them > sit for an hour. > > Chris in Pearland, TX > I always soak mine overnight in cold water. Probably more habit than anything. I did try the quick method once and the beans didn't seem to hold together as well. Maybe it was the beans though, I don't know. I also add a pinch of baking soda to the water. My grandmother swore that it helped take the "after fragrance" out of 'em. -- Steve Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again. |
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Christine wrote:
> "Erica" > wrote in message > om... > >>Hey, >> >>As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this really >>necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before cooking them? >> >>Thanks for any help. >> >>--Erica > > > From what I've heard it's not really necessary. Cuts down on the cooking > time slightly, but not necessary. > > I use the quick start method (more than likely a waste of time, I do it out > of habit). I put the sorted and rinsed beans in a pot, bring them to a > boil, then simmer for about 2 minutes. Then I put the lid on and let them > sit for an hour. > > Chris in Pearland, TX > I always soak mine overnight in cold water. Probably more habit than anything. I did try the quick method once and the beans didn't seem to hold together as well. Maybe it was the beans though, I don't know. I also add a pinch of baking soda to the water. My grandmother swore that it helped take the "after fragrance" out of 'em. -- Steve Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again. |
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Alan Connor wrote:
> On 16 Sep 2004 14:46:19 -0700, Erica > > wrote: > >>Hey, >> >>As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this >>really necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before >>cooking them? >> > If you just cook them (*most* of them), they will be mush before > they are done, severely over-cooked. Could you be more profoundly ignorant of culinary matters? Rhetorical question... If they're mush, they're overdone. Why didn't you stop cooking them before they reached that condition? How can they be mush and *not* be done? You make even less sense about beans than about your silly vegan prattle... > You can put them in cold water, bring it to a boil, remove from > heat and let sit covered for an hour, then cook...But it is > better to soak them for 8+ hours. Soaking and changing the water a couple times can reduce the oligosaccharide content a bit and that will slightly reduce gassiness. Soaking will reduce cooking time slightly. Having said that, if they aren't premium issues, don't even bother. Put them in a pot with water to cover by at least two inches, low medium heat to a boil, reduce to a simmer, cover and leave them alone for an appropriate amount of time ranging from less than an hour for lentils to 4 or more hours for dried fava beans. Add seasonings (but be light on acids and salt until into the cooking) right up front. About 1/2 way through the cooking time, add salt and and whatever other flavoring agents you want. Russ Parsons (LATimes) did a lot of research about the subject and came to these conclusions. We did the same sorts of experiments in my restaurants and agree with him. Pastorio |
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Alan Connor wrote:
> On 16 Sep 2004 14:46:19 -0700, Erica > > wrote: > >>Hey, >> >>As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this >>really necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before >>cooking them? >> > If you just cook them (*most* of them), they will be mush before > they are done, severely over-cooked. Could you be more profoundly ignorant of culinary matters? Rhetorical question... If they're mush, they're overdone. Why didn't you stop cooking them before they reached that condition? How can they be mush and *not* be done? You make even less sense about beans than about your silly vegan prattle... > You can put them in cold water, bring it to a boil, remove from > heat and let sit covered for an hour, then cook...But it is > better to soak them for 8+ hours. Soaking and changing the water a couple times can reduce the oligosaccharide content a bit and that will slightly reduce gassiness. Soaking will reduce cooking time slightly. Having said that, if they aren't premium issues, don't even bother. Put them in a pot with water to cover by at least two inches, low medium heat to a boil, reduce to a simmer, cover and leave them alone for an appropriate amount of time ranging from less than an hour for lentils to 4 or more hours for dried fava beans. Add seasonings (but be light on acids and salt until into the cooking) right up front. About 1/2 way through the cooking time, add salt and and whatever other flavoring agents you want. Russ Parsons (LATimes) did a lot of research about the subject and came to these conclusions. We did the same sorts of experiments in my restaurants and agree with him. Pastorio |
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On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:03:50 GMT, Alan Connor >
wrote: > On 16 Sep 2004 14:46:19 -0700, Erica > > wrote: > > >> Hey, >> >> As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this >> really necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans >> before cooking them? > > > If you just cook them (*most* of them), they will be mush > before they are done, severely over-cooked. > > You can put them in cold water, bring it to a boil, remove from > heat and let sit covered for an hour, then cook...But it is > better to soak them for 8+ hours. > > AC > Hi Bob. I dumped your post without reading it. Like I said I would. **** off, you mean and willfully ignorant bigot. Done. AC |
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Alan Connor wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:03:50 GMT, Alan Connor > > wrote: > >>On 16 Sep 2004 14:46:19 -0700, Erica > >>wrote: >> >>>Hey, >>> >>>As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this >>>really necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans >>>before cooking them? >> >>If you just cook them (*most* of them), they will be mush >>before they are done, severely over-cooked. >> >>You can put them in cold water, bring it to a boil, remove from >>heat and let sit covered for an hour, then cook...But it is >>better to soak them for 8+ hours. >> >>AC >> > Hi Bob. I dumped your post without reading it. And I note you cut it out completely. How did you know which part was mine without looking at it? I bet you have a snazzy color-coded setup where you could kinda squint your eyes so no words would actually register, just the colors. Delete everything that's my color. Astonishingly clever. Devlishly brilliant. Fool. I'm crushed. There's actually one person on earth who won't read my post. Shithead. <LOL> > Like I said I would. <LOL> I have met very few people as proud of their ignorance and who work so desperately hard to maintain the level. Sap. I thought you said you were killfiling me. Then how... I mean, how could you... I'm so confused... could it be you didn't...? ****wit. > **** off, you mean and willfully ignorant bigot. Hilarious. I'm mean. How will I ever live with myself...? I'll have to shave in the mirror with my back turned toward it so I don't look myself in the eye. Bonehead. The wit, the depth of rebuttal, the facts piled on facts... well, I mean who could withstand such an onslaught of science, logic, clarity and skillful expression. Blowhole. Pastorio |
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"Erica" > wrote in message
om... > Hey, > > As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this really > necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before cooking them? > > Thanks for any help. > > --Erica Nope - all it does is shorten the cooking time. If you boil dry beans briefly and let sit in the hot water for a while it is supposed to lessen the gas-generating effects. See my kitchen myths page at http://www.pgacon.com/KitchenMyths.htm for this and other myths. Peter Aitken |
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"Erica" > wrote in message
om... > Hey, > > As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this really > necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before cooking them? > > Thanks for any help. > > --Erica Nope - all it does is shorten the cooking time. If you boil dry beans briefly and let sit in the hot water for a while it is supposed to lessen the gas-generating effects. See my kitchen myths page at http://www.pgacon.com/KitchenMyths.htm for this and other myths. Peter Aitken |
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"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
... > Alan Connor wrote: > > > On 16 Sep 2004 14:46:19 -0700, Erica > > > wrote: > > > >>Hey, > >> > >>As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this > >>really necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before > >>cooking them? > >> > > If you just cook them (*most* of them), they will be mush before > > they are done, severely over-cooked. > > Could you be more profoundly ignorant of culinary matters? > I bet he is working on it! -- Peter Aitken Remove the crap from my email address before using. |
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"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
... > Alan Connor wrote: > > > On 16 Sep 2004 14:46:19 -0700, Erica > > > wrote: > > > >>Hey, > >> > >>As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this > >>really necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before > >>cooking them? > >> > > If you just cook them (*most* of them), they will be mush before > > they are done, severely over-cooked. > > Could you be more profoundly ignorant of culinary matters? > I bet he is working on it! -- Peter Aitken Remove the crap from my email address before using. |
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>"Peter Aitken"
> >>"Erica" wrote >> >> As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this really >> necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before cooking them? > >Nope - all it does is shorten the cooking time. If you boil dry beans >briefly and let sit in the hot water for a while it is supposed to lessen >the gas-generating effects. Um, yoose gots to drain the soaking water (it will contain a goodly portion of the fart fairies) and cook in fresh water. >See my kitchen myths page at >http://www.pgacon.com/KitchenMyths.htm for this and other myths. Yeah, right... essentially plagerized BULLSHIT. For the real deal, all you need to know about beans... http://www.americanbean.org Cooking Dry-Packaged Beans "Hot soaking helps dissolve some of the gas-causing substances, making the beans easier to digest. Drain soaking water and rinse beans; cook in fresh water. In general, beans take 30 minutes to 2 hours to cook depending on variety. Check bean packaging for specific cooking times and instructions. Spice up beans while they cook. Seasonings such as garlic, onion, oregano, parsley or thyme can be added to the pot while beans are cooking. Add acidic ingredients, such as tomatoes, vinegar, wine or citrus juices, only at end of cooking, when the beans are tender. Add salt only after beans are cooked to tender. If added before, salt may cause bean skins to become impermeable, halting the tenderizing process. To test for doneness, bite-taste a few beans. They should be tender, but not overcooked. When cooling, keep beans in cooking liquid to prevent them from drying out." --- ---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- ********* "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." Sheldon ```````````` |
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>"Peter Aitken"
> >>"Erica" wrote >> >> As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this really >> necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before cooking them? > >Nope - all it does is shorten the cooking time. If you boil dry beans >briefly and let sit in the hot water for a while it is supposed to lessen >the gas-generating effects. Um, yoose gots to drain the soaking water (it will contain a goodly portion of the fart fairies) and cook in fresh water. >See my kitchen myths page at >http://www.pgacon.com/KitchenMyths.htm for this and other myths. Yeah, right... essentially plagerized BULLSHIT. For the real deal, all you need to know about beans... http://www.americanbean.org Cooking Dry-Packaged Beans "Hot soaking helps dissolve some of the gas-causing substances, making the beans easier to digest. Drain soaking water and rinse beans; cook in fresh water. In general, beans take 30 minutes to 2 hours to cook depending on variety. Check bean packaging for specific cooking times and instructions. Spice up beans while they cook. Seasonings such as garlic, onion, oregano, parsley or thyme can be added to the pot while beans are cooking. Add acidic ingredients, such as tomatoes, vinegar, wine or citrus juices, only at end of cooking, when the beans are tender. Add salt only after beans are cooked to tender. If added before, salt may cause bean skins to become impermeable, halting the tenderizing process. To test for doneness, bite-taste a few beans. They should be tender, but not overcooked. When cooling, keep beans in cooking liquid to prevent them from drying out." --- ---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- ********* "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." Sheldon ```````````` |
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Erica wrote:
> Hey, > > As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this really > necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before cooking them? > > Thanks for any help. In another life, I ran a macrobiotic catering business. I cooked beans several times a week for years. I tried every method there is. I never found a significant difference in the final result EXCEPT for starting with fresher beans and the cooking liquid. Use plain unsalted water, not vegetable stock, not tomato juice, not with lots of vegetables in it, not vinegar, absolutely no salt or tamari or other flavors. All that can be added later after the beans are cooked to the desired tenderness. Shop for beans from a store that has a good turnover on them. For me, that meant the big supermarket, not the small, specialty, health food store. Older beans can still be used, but they take longer to cook by several hours. With those 2 caveats, the boiling method is up to you and what you find most convenient. Pre-soaking will shorten the cooking time but lengthen the planning time. I decided I preferred not pre-soaking. Pressure cookers shorten the cooking time too, but they took fussing with lids and special equipment and needed to be kept a closer eye on. I decided I liked a regular pot with a lid which I could stir every time I walked by. You can bring the beans and water to a boil, then turn off the heat or bring them to a boil and lower to a simmer, or bring to a boil and cook them at a fairly fast boil. The only important point is to keep stirring them enough so they don't burn and stick to the bottom of the pot. My preference is for the boil-then-simmer method, but that means I had heat I could adjust. If you've got a stove with 2 settings of high and off, you can do well with bring to a boil, then turn off until it cools a little, then boil again, etc. As for desired tenderness, I like them cooked until splitting, the texture for soups or dip. If you watch them carefully, you can see when they're just about to split and get them off the heat then. That's right for bean salads. --Lia |
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Erica wrote:
> Hey, > > As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this really > necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before cooking them? > > Thanks for any help. In another life, I ran a macrobiotic catering business. I cooked beans several times a week for years. I tried every method there is. I never found a significant difference in the final result EXCEPT for starting with fresher beans and the cooking liquid. Use plain unsalted water, not vegetable stock, not tomato juice, not with lots of vegetables in it, not vinegar, absolutely no salt or tamari or other flavors. All that can be added later after the beans are cooked to the desired tenderness. Shop for beans from a store that has a good turnover on them. For me, that meant the big supermarket, not the small, specialty, health food store. Older beans can still be used, but they take longer to cook by several hours. With those 2 caveats, the boiling method is up to you and what you find most convenient. Pre-soaking will shorten the cooking time but lengthen the planning time. I decided I preferred not pre-soaking. Pressure cookers shorten the cooking time too, but they took fussing with lids and special equipment and needed to be kept a closer eye on. I decided I liked a regular pot with a lid which I could stir every time I walked by. You can bring the beans and water to a boil, then turn off the heat or bring them to a boil and lower to a simmer, or bring to a boil and cook them at a fairly fast boil. The only important point is to keep stirring them enough so they don't burn and stick to the bottom of the pot. My preference is for the boil-then-simmer method, but that means I had heat I could adjust. If you've got a stove with 2 settings of high and off, you can do well with bring to a boil, then turn off until it cools a little, then boil again, etc. As for desired tenderness, I like them cooked until splitting, the texture for soups or dip. If you watch them carefully, you can see when they're just about to split and get them off the heat then. That's right for bean salads. --Lia |
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Erica wrote:
> Hey, > > As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this really > necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before cooking them? > > Thanks for any help. In another life, I ran a macrobiotic catering business. I cooked beans several times a week for years. I tried every method there is. I never found a significant difference in the final result EXCEPT for starting with fresher beans and the cooking liquid. Use plain unsalted water, not vegetable stock, not tomato juice, not with lots of vegetables in it, not vinegar, absolutely no salt or tamari or other flavors. All that can be added later after the beans are cooked to the desired tenderness. Shop for beans from a store that has a good turnover on them. For me, that meant the big supermarket, not the small, specialty, health food store. Older beans can still be used, but they take longer to cook by several hours. With those 2 caveats, the boiling method is up to you and what you find most convenient. Pre-soaking will shorten the cooking time but lengthen the planning time. I decided I preferred not pre-soaking. Pressure cookers shorten the cooking time too, but they took fussing with lids and special equipment and needed to be kept a closer eye on. I decided I liked a regular pot with a lid which I could stir every time I walked by. You can bring the beans and water to a boil, then turn off the heat or bring them to a boil and lower to a simmer, or bring to a boil and cook them at a fairly fast boil. The only important point is to keep stirring them enough so they don't burn and stick to the bottom of the pot. My preference is for the boil-then-simmer method, but that means I had heat I could adjust. If you've got a stove with 2 settings of high and off, you can do well with bring to a boil, then turn off until it cools a little, then boil again, etc. As for desired tenderness, I like them cooked until splitting, the texture for soups or dip. If you watch them carefully, you can see when they're just about to split and get them off the heat then. That's right for bean salads. --Lia |
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Julia Altshuler wrote:
> Erica wrote: > >> Hey, >> >> As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this really >> necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before cooking them? >> >> Thanks for any help. > > In another life, I ran a macrobiotic catering business. I cooked beans > several times a week for years. I tried every method there is. I never > found a significant difference in the final result EXCEPT for starting > with fresher beans and the cooking liquid. In my restaurants, we did test after test and came to essentially the same conclusions. We bought beans from wholesalers all of whom had dated packages. Makes it easier tom keep track of freshness. > Use plain unsalted water, not vegetable stock, not tomato juice, not > with lots of vegetables in it, not vinegar, absolutely no salt or tamari > or other flavors. All that can be added later after the beans are > cooked to the desired tenderness. I don't agree. I find that I can create a better flavor profile if some seasoned liquid is absorbed by the beans. Salt and acids will affect texture and cooking times, but virtually anything else will add to the finished flavor of the beans. I'll also say I like the beans to be firm which means a shorter cook time. Means that flavors added at the end don't penetrate as much. Personal tastes. > Shop for beans from a store that has a good turnover on them. For me, > that meant the big supermarket, not the small, specialty, health food > store. Older beans can still be used, but they take longer to cook by > several hours. Agreed. The rehydration rates of beans seems to vary directly with age. > With those 2 caveats, the boiling method is up to you and what you find > most convenient. Pre-soaking will shorten the cooking time but lengthen > the planning time. I decided I preferred not pre-soaking. Pressure > cookers shorten the cooking time too, but they took fussing with lids > and special equipment and needed to be kept a closer eye on. I decided > I liked a regular pot with a lid which I could stir every time I walked by. Mostly, I agree with this. The difference is that if I have to cook a lot of beans, the pressure cooker makes batches easier and you can put any flavorings in there you want including salt and acids and it'll work. > You can bring the beans and water to a boil, then turn off the heat or > bring them to a boil and lower to a simmer, or bring to a boil and cook > them at a fairly fast boil. The only important point is to keep > stirring them enough so they don't burn and stick to the bottom of the > pot. My preference is for the boil-then-simmer method, but that means I > had heat I could adjust. If you've got a stove with 2 settings of high > and off, you can do well with bring to a boil, then turn off until it > cools a little, then boil again, etc. > > > As for desired tenderness, I like them cooked until splitting, the > texture for soups or dip. If you watch them carefully, you can see when > they're just about to split and get them off the heat then. That's > right for bean salads. That splitting criterion is what I learned in a chef training seminar. The test the instructor advocated was to pick up a few beans in a spoon, drain them and blow on them. If the skins split open, they're done. Works for me. Can't don it in a pressure cooker, so it has to be by time. If they're not completely done, it's just a matter of bringing them back to a simmer and finishing it that way. Still cuts hours off the cook time. Pastorio |
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Julia Altshuler wrote:
> Erica wrote: > >> Hey, >> >> As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this really >> necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before cooking them? >> >> Thanks for any help. > > In another life, I ran a macrobiotic catering business. I cooked beans > several times a week for years. I tried every method there is. I never > found a significant difference in the final result EXCEPT for starting > with fresher beans and the cooking liquid. In my restaurants, we did test after test and came to essentially the same conclusions. We bought beans from wholesalers all of whom had dated packages. Makes it easier tom keep track of freshness. > Use plain unsalted water, not vegetable stock, not tomato juice, not > with lots of vegetables in it, not vinegar, absolutely no salt or tamari > or other flavors. All that can be added later after the beans are > cooked to the desired tenderness. I don't agree. I find that I can create a better flavor profile if some seasoned liquid is absorbed by the beans. Salt and acids will affect texture and cooking times, but virtually anything else will add to the finished flavor of the beans. I'll also say I like the beans to be firm which means a shorter cook time. Means that flavors added at the end don't penetrate as much. Personal tastes. > Shop for beans from a store that has a good turnover on them. For me, > that meant the big supermarket, not the small, specialty, health food > store. Older beans can still be used, but they take longer to cook by > several hours. Agreed. The rehydration rates of beans seems to vary directly with age. > With those 2 caveats, the boiling method is up to you and what you find > most convenient. Pre-soaking will shorten the cooking time but lengthen > the planning time. I decided I preferred not pre-soaking. Pressure > cookers shorten the cooking time too, but they took fussing with lids > and special equipment and needed to be kept a closer eye on. I decided > I liked a regular pot with a lid which I could stir every time I walked by. Mostly, I agree with this. The difference is that if I have to cook a lot of beans, the pressure cooker makes batches easier and you can put any flavorings in there you want including salt and acids and it'll work. > You can bring the beans and water to a boil, then turn off the heat or > bring them to a boil and lower to a simmer, or bring to a boil and cook > them at a fairly fast boil. The only important point is to keep > stirring them enough so they don't burn and stick to the bottom of the > pot. My preference is for the boil-then-simmer method, but that means I > had heat I could adjust. If you've got a stove with 2 settings of high > and off, you can do well with bring to a boil, then turn off until it > cools a little, then boil again, etc. > > > As for desired tenderness, I like them cooked until splitting, the > texture for soups or dip. If you watch them carefully, you can see when > they're just about to split and get them off the heat then. That's > right for bean salads. That splitting criterion is what I learned in a chef training seminar. The test the instructor advocated was to pick up a few beans in a spoon, drain them and blow on them. If the skins split open, they're done. Works for me. Can't don it in a pressure cooker, so it has to be by time. If they're not completely done, it's just a matter of bringing them back to a simmer and finishing it that way. Still cuts hours off the cook time. Pastorio |
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Bob (this one) wrote:
I find that I can create a better flavor profile if some > seasoned liquid is absorbed by the beans. Salt and acids will affect > texture and cooking times, but virtually anything else will add to the > finished flavor of the beans. I'll also say I like the beans to be firm > which means a shorter cook time. Means that flavors added at the end > don't penetrate as much. Personal tastes. I never thought I'd get interested in this again, but you've gotten me curious. What seasoned liquid are you thinking of that gets absorbed by the beans, isn't salt or acid, and is strong enough to add flavor? I'm thinking herbs and spices, but they've always been strongest when added at the last minute. For the original poster, there's something else I should mention about cooking times, and that's the size of the bean. For a quick soup, use lentils or split peas. They're small and cook more quickly. You have to keep an eye on them more since the bottom of the pan is more likely to burn, but you can add the vegetables (onions, carrots, celery) with the lentils from the start since they'll cook quickly anyway. Red beans are larger. They take longer. For red beans and rice, count on letting them simmer for several hours. The test for doneness I learned was to take out a single bean, blow on it to let it cool, then place it in your mouth and attempt to split it with your tongue on the roof of your mouth. Don't chew; teeth are too strong. If you can split it with just your tongue, it is the right doneness for salads. --Lia |
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Julia Altshuler wrote:
> Bob (this one) wrote: > > I find that I can create a better flavor profile if some >> seasoned liquid is absorbed by the beans. Salt and acids will affect >> texture and cooking times, but virtually anything else will add to the >> finished flavor of the beans. I'll also say I like the beans to be >> firm which means a shorter cook time. Means that flavors added at the >> end don't penetrate as much. Personal tastes. > > I never thought I'd get interested in this again, but you've gotten me > curious. What seasoned liquid are you thinking of that gets absorbed by > the beans, isn't salt or acid, Beans swell because they're absorbing the cooking liquid. We're not shooting for *no* salt or acid, just keeping it down in the early part of the cook. I usually step up both as the cook proceeds. If you simmer dried garlic, ginger, nutmeg in stocks and cook beans in the liquid, it'll penetrate the bean and provide a good bit of flavor. Likewise dried orange peel and lemon peel. A mirepoix in the stock while the beans are cooking (tied in cheesecloth to make it easy to remove it) will add flavor. A goodly dollop of bacon fat added to the stock will most surely add flavor. Salt can keep beans more firm than most people like it added at the beginning *to levels that are sufficient to do that.* The level will vary from bean to bean. A little will merely be seasoning. Same for acids. The other thing they'll do is change the colors of dark beans. Black beans become red with vinegar in the mix. Look at recipes for Cuban-style black beans and see how much stuff is added to the beans as they cook. Some salt and a good bit of acid. > and is strong enough to add flavor? I'm > thinking herbs and spices, but they've always been strongest when added > at the last minute. > > For the original poster, there's something else I should mention about > cooking times, and that's the size of the bean. For a quick soup, use > lentils or split peas. They're small and cook more quickly. You have > to keep an eye on them more since the bottom of the pan is more likely > to burn, but you can add the vegetables (onions, carrots, celery) with > the lentils from the start since they'll cook quickly anyway. Red beans > are larger. They take longer. For red beans and rice, count on letting > them simmer for several hours. > > The test for doneness I learned was to take out a single bean, blow on > it to let it cool, then place it in your mouth and attempt to split it > with your tongue on the roof of your mouth. Don't chew; teeth are too > strong. If you can split it with just your tongue, it is the right > doneness for salads. Haven't heard that one. Sounds fine to me. All depends on how you like the beans. I'll also say that I like different textures for different dishes. Black beans and yellow rice means soft beans for me. Beans served with chili means firm beans. And don't get me started on oven-baked beans... <G> Pastorio |
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Julia Altshuler wrote:
> Bob (this one) wrote: > > I find that I can create a better flavor profile if some >> seasoned liquid is absorbed by the beans. Salt and acids will affect >> texture and cooking times, but virtually anything else will add to the >> finished flavor of the beans. I'll also say I like the beans to be >> firm which means a shorter cook time. Means that flavors added at the >> end don't penetrate as much. Personal tastes. > > I never thought I'd get interested in this again, but you've gotten me > curious. What seasoned liquid are you thinking of that gets absorbed by > the beans, isn't salt or acid, Beans swell because they're absorbing the cooking liquid. We're not shooting for *no* salt or acid, just keeping it down in the early part of the cook. I usually step up both as the cook proceeds. If you simmer dried garlic, ginger, nutmeg in stocks and cook beans in the liquid, it'll penetrate the bean and provide a good bit of flavor. Likewise dried orange peel and lemon peel. A mirepoix in the stock while the beans are cooking (tied in cheesecloth to make it easy to remove it) will add flavor. A goodly dollop of bacon fat added to the stock will most surely add flavor. Salt can keep beans more firm than most people like it added at the beginning *to levels that are sufficient to do that.* The level will vary from bean to bean. A little will merely be seasoning. Same for acids. The other thing they'll do is change the colors of dark beans. Black beans become red with vinegar in the mix. Look at recipes for Cuban-style black beans and see how much stuff is added to the beans as they cook. Some salt and a good bit of acid. > and is strong enough to add flavor? I'm > thinking herbs and spices, but they've always been strongest when added > at the last minute. > > For the original poster, there's something else I should mention about > cooking times, and that's the size of the bean. For a quick soup, use > lentils or split peas. They're small and cook more quickly. You have > to keep an eye on them more since the bottom of the pan is more likely > to burn, but you can add the vegetables (onions, carrots, celery) with > the lentils from the start since they'll cook quickly anyway. Red beans > are larger. They take longer. For red beans and rice, count on letting > them simmer for several hours. > > The test for doneness I learned was to take out a single bean, blow on > it to let it cool, then place it in your mouth and attempt to split it > with your tongue on the roof of your mouth. Don't chew; teeth are too > strong. If you can split it with just your tongue, it is the right > doneness for salads. Haven't heard that one. Sounds fine to me. All depends on how you like the beans. I'll also say that I like different textures for different dishes. Black beans and yellow rice means soft beans for me. Beans served with chili means firm beans. And don't get me started on oven-baked beans... <G> Pastorio |
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wrote:
:>>As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this :>>really necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before :>>cooking them? :>> :> If you just cook them (*most* of them), they will be mush before :> they are done, severely over-cooked. : Could you be more profoundly ignorant of culinary matters? : Rhetorical question... : If they're mush, they're overdone. Why didn't you stop cooking them : before they reached that condition? How can they be mush and *not* be : done? You make even less sense about beans than about your silly vegan : prattle... Mr. is the one showing his profound ignorance of culinary matters here. The OUTSIDE portion of the beans turn to mush before the insides have even softened. That's how they can be mush but not done! Bob's obviously meager brain tissue apparently can't comprehend this. This is a problem when cooking dried beans at high altitudes or when using old beans. Presoaking will help the situation. |
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wrote:
> wrote: > > :>>As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this > :>>really necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before > :>>cooking them? :>> :> If you just cook them (*most* of them), > they will be mush before :> they are done, severely over-cooked. > > : Could you be more profoundly ignorant of culinary matters? > > : Rhetorical question... > > : If they're mush, they're overdone. Why didn't you stop cooking > them : before they reached that condition? How can they be mush and > *not* be : done? You make even less sense about beans than about > your silly vegan : prattle... > > Mr. is the one showing his profound ignorance of > culinary matters here. <LOL> All those years of professional culinary training, owning and running (and cooking in) restaurants, writing well over 1000 published articles, researching and writing encyclopedia entries, doing a call-in radio program about food and cooking since the 80's, reading literally thousands of food-related books, teaching cooking classes to amateurs and pros, producing several lines of packaged foods, and consulting with large and small commercial food-producing companies are for naught. I still suffer from "profound ignorance." <LOL> I'm only glad that is here to set my obviously untoward thinking aright. > The OUTSIDE portion of the beans turn to mush before the insides > have even softened. That's how they can be mush but not done! Bob's > obviously meager brain tissue apparently can't comprehend this. > This is a problem when cooking dried beans at high altitudes or > when using old beans. Presoaking will help the situation. Oh thank you for some brilliant non-information, bonehead. Right up there with the vegan balloonhead nonsense. In my five decades of cooking beans at home and in a lengthy string of restaurants (mine and others I ran) using virtually every method I've ever heard about to cook literally tons of beans, not once - NOT ONCE - have I ever encountered this condition. I lived in New Jersey at sea level and now live in mountains at height and have cooked in both locations; no beans with mushy outsides. Never have I ever seen this mentioned in any cookbook; never on any package of beans; never heard it from any other professional chef; never seen it mentioned in any online forum; not one article I've ever read about beans mentions it. No food science book I know of says anything about beans partially overcooking because they're not soaked. Russ Parsons did extensive research about cooking beans and never mentioned this "problem." He did say that soaking was unnecessary, however, after many tests. Harold McGee says it's not necessary but a short soak (4 hours) helps reduce cooking time. In short, you have no support from anyone knowledgeable and seem to have made up that silly "problem" or got it from some woo-woo new age macrobiotic guru who thinks stuff like microwaves steal the vibrations of the universe from food. Back to the sandbox with you, Zippy, and stick to your correct league. The OUTSIDE of your IQ turned to mush before the insides even developed. Bob |
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wrote:
> wrote: > > :>>As I was soaking a pot of pinto beans, I wondered...is this > :>>really necessary? Is there any real reason to soak beans before > :>>cooking them? :>> :> If you just cook them (*most* of them), > they will be mush before :> they are done, severely over-cooked. > > : Could you be more profoundly ignorant of culinary matters? > > : Rhetorical question... > > : If they're mush, they're overdone. Why didn't you stop cooking > them : before they reached that condition? How can they be mush and > *not* be : done? You make even less sense about beans than about > your silly vegan : prattle... > > Mr. is the one showing his profound ignorance of > culinary matters here. <LOL> All those years of professional culinary training, owning and running (and cooking in) restaurants, writing well over 1000 published articles, researching and writing encyclopedia entries, doing a call-in radio program about food and cooking since the 80's, reading literally thousands of food-related books, teaching cooking classes to amateurs and pros, producing several lines of packaged foods, and consulting with large and small commercial food-producing companies are for naught. I still suffer from "profound ignorance." <LOL> I'm only glad that is here to set my obviously untoward thinking aright. > The OUTSIDE portion of the beans turn to mush before the insides > have even softened. That's how they can be mush but not done! Bob's > obviously meager brain tissue apparently can't comprehend this. > This is a problem when cooking dried beans at high altitudes or > when using old beans. Presoaking will help the situation. Oh thank you for some brilliant non-information, bonehead. Right up there with the vegan balloonhead nonsense. In my five decades of cooking beans at home and in a lengthy string of restaurants (mine and others I ran) using virtually every method I've ever heard about to cook literally tons of beans, not once - NOT ONCE - have I ever encountered this condition. I lived in New Jersey at sea level and now live in mountains at height and have cooked in both locations; no beans with mushy outsides. Never have I ever seen this mentioned in any cookbook; never on any package of beans; never heard it from any other professional chef; never seen it mentioned in any online forum; not one article I've ever read about beans mentions it. No food science book I know of says anything about beans partially overcooking because they're not soaked. Russ Parsons did extensive research about cooking beans and never mentioned this "problem." He did say that soaking was unnecessary, however, after many tests. Harold McGee says it's not necessary but a short soak (4 hours) helps reduce cooking time. In short, you have no support from anyone knowledgeable and seem to have made up that silly "problem" or got it from some woo-woo new age macrobiotic guru who thinks stuff like microwaves steal the vibrations of the universe from food. Back to the sandbox with you, Zippy, and stick to your correct league. The OUTSIDE of your IQ turned to mush before the insides even developed. Bob |
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:> The OUTSIDE portion of the beans turn to mush before the insides
:> have even softened. That's how they can be mush but not done! Bob's :> obviously meager brain tissue apparently can't comprehend this. :> This is a problem when cooking dried beans at high altitudes or :> when using old beans. Presoaking will help the situation. : Oh thank you for some brilliant non-information, bonehead. Right up : there with the vegan balloonhead nonsense. : In my five decades of cooking beans at home and in a lengthy string of : restaurants (mine and others I ran) using virtually every method I've : ever heard about to cook literally tons of beans, not once - NOT ONCE : - have I ever encountered this condition. I lived in New Jersey at sea : level and now live in mountains at height and have cooked in both : locations; no beans with mushy outsides. Never have I ever seen this : mentioned in any cookbook; never on any package of beans; never heard : it from any other professional chef; never seen it mentioned in any : online forum; not one article I've ever read about beans mentions it. : No food science book I know of says anything about beans partially : overcooking because they're not soaked. Russ Parsons did extensive : research about cooking beans and never mentioned this "problem." He : did say that soaking was unnecessary, however, after many tests. : Harold McGee says it's not necessary but a short soak (4 hours) helps : reduce cooking time. : In short, you have no support from anyone knowledgeable and seem to : have made up that silly "problem" or got it from some woo-woo new age : macrobiotic guru who thinks stuff like microwaves steal the vibrations : of the universe from food. Back to the sandbox with you, Zippy, and : stick to your correct league. The OUTSIDE of your IQ turned to mush : before the insides even developed. : Bob Incredible. Because you've never personally experienced something, you claim it can't happen. You sir, are truly a moron. Since I've had it happen to me several times, I obviously have more cooking experience than you, but I don't go touting it (perhaps even inventing it?) like a pompous ass. |
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:> The OUTSIDE portion of the beans turn to mush before the insides
:> have even softened. That's how they can be mush but not done! Bob's :> obviously meager brain tissue apparently can't comprehend this. :> This is a problem when cooking dried beans at high altitudes or :> when using old beans. Presoaking will help the situation. : Oh thank you for some brilliant non-information, bonehead. Right up : there with the vegan balloonhead nonsense. : In my five decades of cooking beans at home and in a lengthy string of : restaurants (mine and others I ran) using virtually every method I've : ever heard about to cook literally tons of beans, not once - NOT ONCE : - have I ever encountered this condition. I lived in New Jersey at sea : level and now live in mountains at height and have cooked in both : locations; no beans with mushy outsides. Never have I ever seen this : mentioned in any cookbook; never on any package of beans; never heard : it from any other professional chef; never seen it mentioned in any : online forum; not one article I've ever read about beans mentions it. : No food science book I know of says anything about beans partially : overcooking because they're not soaked. Russ Parsons did extensive : research about cooking beans and never mentioned this "problem." He : did say that soaking was unnecessary, however, after many tests. : Harold McGee says it's not necessary but a short soak (4 hours) helps : reduce cooking time. : In short, you have no support from anyone knowledgeable and seem to : have made up that silly "problem" or got it from some woo-woo new age : macrobiotic guru who thinks stuff like microwaves steal the vibrations : of the universe from food. Back to the sandbox with you, Zippy, and : stick to your correct league. The OUTSIDE of your IQ turned to mush : before the insides even developed. : Bob Incredible. Because you've never personally experienced something, you claim it can't happen. You sir, are truly a moron. Since I've had it happen to me several times, I obviously have more cooking experience than you, but I don't go touting it (perhaps even inventing it?) like a pompous ass. |
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