Hi all,

I have a few trees in the backyard that produce sour oranges. A large
number of them have started ripening, so I thought that it would be
nice to make a batch of marmalade. I have made jam and preserves
before, but I've never made jelly or marmalade, and I have several
questions (please bear with me!). First, I started browsing recipes,
and I've found that there are several different techniques:

a) Simmer whole oranges and scoop out the pulp
b) Cut oranges into wedges and simmer
c) Simmer the orange juice

Does anyone recommend/caution against any of these techniques? Second,
I just have wild sour (bitter?) oranges growing in the yard, can I
substitute these in a recipe that calls for Seville oranges? Third, I
do not have a jelly bag, does anyone know where I'd find one
(Williams-Sonoma perhaps?) or how I could make one? One recipe
suggested instead of a jelly bag running the cooked pulp through a
sieve and then a piece of cloth, is this a good approximation, and if
so, what sort of cloth should be used? Lastly, do you recommend the
use of pectin or just sugar? And what sort of ratio of fruit to sugar?
I would prefer a ratio expressed in terms of cups of fruit or number
of oranges rather than weight, as the fruit is in my backyard and I do
not have a scale at home.

Many thanks,
Erica

Erica wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have a few trees in the backyard that produce sour oranges. A large
> number of them have started ripening, so I thought that it would be
> nice to make a batch of marmalade. I have made jam and preserves
> before, but I've never made jelly or marmalade, and I have several
> questions (please bear with me!). First, I started browsing recipes,
> and I've found that there are several different techniques:
>
> a) Simmer whole oranges and scoop out the pulp
> b) Cut oranges into wedges and simmer
> c) Simmer the orange juice
>
> Does anyone recommend/caution against any of these techniques?

The recipe that I use for Seville Orange Marmalade is pretty easy. I slice
the oranges in half and juice them, saving the juice and the seeds.
Remove any blemishes from the skin and and slice them into thin strips. I
use a food processor with a slicing blade for that part. Put the sliced
peel into a large pot, add the juice and add enough water cover. Wrap the
seeds in cheesecloth and put it in with the sliced peel / water. Bring it
to a boil and then simmer for 2-3 hours until you can squish the peel
between your thumb and finger.

At this point, you are ready to start cooking it. Add equal amounts of
the orange peel mash and sugar and bring it to a rolling boil until it
starts to thicken. I use a cool cup or bowl inverted. Drop a little of the
hot mixture on the side of the bowl near the top. When it gets to the
point where it sets readily, it is ready to bottle in sterilized jars.


> Second,
> I just have wild sour (bitter?) oranges growing in the yard, can I
> substitute these in a recipe that calls for Seville oranges?

You can use any kind of orange to make marmalade, or other citrus fruits.
I have had both lemon and lime marmalade but was not impressed with
either, but my mother used to make a three fruit marmalade with regular
oranges, grapefruit and lemon. It was delicious.

> Third, I
> do not have a jelly bag, does anyone know where I'd find one
> (Williams-Sonoma perhaps?) or how I could make one? One recipe
> suggested instead of a jelly bag running the cooked pulp through a
> sieve and then a piece of cloth, is this a good approximation, and if
> so, what sort of cloth should be used?

Jelly bag for Marmalade? Totally inappropriate. Marmalade isn't marmalade
unless it has chunks of peel in it. The big decision is whether to use
thick or thin slices. I prefer thin strips.... slivers.

> Lastly, do you recommend the
> use of pectin or just sugar?

> And what sort of ratio of fruit to sugar?
> I would prefer a ratio expressed in terms of cups of fruit or number
> of oranges rather than weight, as the fruit is in my backyard and I do
> not have a scale at home.

Just sugar. After your mash has steeped long enough to be mushy between
your fingers, cook it up in small batches, and measure it out in
measuring cups, equal amounts of mash and granulated sugar.

In article >,
(Erica) wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have a few trees in the backyard that produce sour oranges. A large
> number of them have started ripening, so I thought that it would be
> nice to make a batch of marmalade. I have made jam and preserves
> before, but I've never made jelly or marmalade, and I have several
> questions (please bear with me!). First, I started browsing recipes,
> and I've found that there are several different techniques:
>
> a) Simmer whole oranges and scoop out the pulp
> b) Cut oranges into wedges and simmer
> c) Simmer the orange juice
>
> Does anyone recommend/caution against any of these techniques?

Marmalade is made with the rind; if there is no rind, it's not
marmalade. Peel the oranges and cut the peel into thin strips about 2-3
inches long and about as wide as a matchstick.


> Second, I just have wild sour (bitter?) oranges growing in the yard,
> can I substitute these in a recipe that calls for Seville oranges?

No absolutely not. Pick all of the oranges and UPS them to me for proper
disposal. Email me for the address.

.... of course you can. Seville oranges are bitter oranges. Of course, I
don't know the quality of the oranges you have, but that's a different
issue.


> Third, I do not have a jelly bag, does anyone know where I'd find one
> (Williams-Sonoma perhaps?) or how I could make one? One recipe
> suggested instead of a jelly bag running the cooked pulp through a
> sieve and then a piece of cloth, is this a good approximation, and if
> so, what sort of cloth should be used?

If you're making marmalade, you don't need a jelly bag; it's only needed
for jelly and will serve no purpose for marmalade--you WANT the
marmalade to have the little lumpy bits.


> Lastly, do you recommend the use of pectin or just sugar? And what
> sort of ratio of fruit to sugar? I would prefer a ratio expressed in
> terms of cups of fruit or number of oranges rather than weight, as
> the fruit is in my backyard and I do not have a scale at home.

Using pectin is probably easier. The Ball Blue Book (get it, if you
don't have it) uses a sugar-only recipe for marmalade, while Linda
Amendt's "Blue Ribbon Preserves" claims that pectin-based recipes are
more reliable and produce better results. I've made them both ways; they
produce different results, but I can't say that one's decidedly better
than the other.

The Blue Book calls for a 1:1 ratio by volume of fruit (and juice) to
sugar.

Here are two tested recipes; the Blue Book recipe uses regular oranges
but should be fine for Sevilles (don't' fiddle with the quantity of
added sugar, or it might not jell). The second recipe is from "Blue
Ribbon Preserves."

Read what the 2nd recipe says about avoiding floating fruit; it works.

Ball Blue Books's Orange Marmalade
2 cups thinly sliced orange peel (about 10 medium)
1 quart chopped orange pulp (about 10 medium)
1 cup thinly sliced lemon (about 2 medium)
1-1/2 quarts water
Sugar (about 6 cups)

Combine all ingredients, except sugar; simmer 5 minutes. Cover and let
stand 12 to 18 hours in a cool place.
Cook rapidly until peel is tender, about 1 hour. Measure fruit and
liquid. Add one cup sugar for each cup fruit mixture, stirring until
dissolved.
Cook rapidly until jelling point. As mixture thickens, stir frequently
to prevent sticking. Remove from heat. Skim foam if necessary. Ladle hot
marmalade into hot jars leaving 1/4 inch headspace. Adjust 2-piece caps.
Process 10 minutes in a boiling water canner. Yields about 7 half-pints.



Blue Ribbon Preserves Bittersweet Orange Marmalade
1 cup zested or thinly sliced orange peel (do not pack)
1 cup water
1/2 cup strained fresh orange juice
3/4 cup water
1/8 teaspoon baking soda
2-3/4 cups supremed and finely chopped orange segments plus enough
reserved juice to equal 3 cups (16 to 20 tart or sour oranges)
5 cups sugar
1/2 teaspoon unsalted butter
1 (3 oz) pouch liquid pectin

In a small bowl, combine the peel and 1 cup water. Let soak 10 minutes.
Drain the peel and discard the water.

In an 8-quart pan, combine the peel with the orange juice, 3/4 cup water
and baking soda. Over medium-high heat, bring to a full boil. Reduce the
heat, cover and simmer for 10 minutes, stirring occasionally. Stir in
the fruit. Cover and simmer for 10 minutes more.

Remove the cover and stir in the sugar and butter. Heat, stirring
constantly, until the sugar is completely dissolved.

Increase the heat to medium-high and bring the mixture to a full rolling
boil, stirring constantly. Stir in the entire contents of the pectin
pouch. Return the mixture to a full rolling boil, stirring constantly.
Boil, stirring constantly, for one minute. Remove the pan from the heat.
Skim off any foam.

To prevent floating fruit, allow the marmalade to cool 5 minutes before
filling the jars. Gently stir the marmalade to distribute the fruit.
Ladle the marmalade into hot jars, leaving 1/4 inch headspace. Wipe the
jar rims and threads with a clean, damp cloth. Cover the jars with hot
lids and apply screw rings. Process half-pint jars in a 200F water bath
for 10 minutes, pint jars for 15 minutes.

--
to respond, change "spamless.invalid" with "optonline.net"
please mail OT responses only

Erica wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have a few trees in the backyard that produce sour oranges. A large
> number of them have started ripening, so I thought that it would be
> nice to make a batch of marmalade. I have made jam and preserves
> before, but I've never made jelly or marmalade, and I have several
> questions (please bear with me!). First, I started browsing recipes,
> and I've found that there are several different techniques:
>
> a) Simmer whole oranges and scoop out the pulp
> b) Cut oranges into wedges and simmer
> c) Simmer the orange juice
>
> Does anyone recommend/caution against any of these techniques? Second,
> I just have wild sour (bitter?) oranges growing in the yard, can I
> substitute these in a recipe that calls for Seville oranges? Third, I
> do not have a jelly bag, does anyone know where I'd find one
> (Williams-Sonoma perhaps?) or how I could make one? One recipe
> suggested instead of a jelly bag running the cooked pulp through a
> sieve and then a piece of cloth, is this a good approximation, and if
> so, what sort of cloth should be used? Lastly, do you recommend the
> use of pectin or just sugar? And what sort of ratio of fruit to sugar?
> I would prefer a ratio expressed in terms of cups of fruit or number
> of oranges rather than weight, as the fruit is in my backyard and I do
> not have a scale at home.
>
> Many thanks,
> Erica


I bought three sour oranges in October when I was in Houston and visited a
Fiesta supermarket. I wish I had bought more, but didn't know what they
were at the time. Here is the summary from when I made marmalade with them
and we had a discussion in r.f.p:

> It's very bitter, and a nice light orange color. I didn't have to add
> any red food coloring. I simmered the quartered fruit for about an hour,
> stirred it up good to break up the pulp, and simmered it another half
> hour. Let it cool a bit and removed the fruit. When that was cooled
> enough to handle, I scooped out the pulp and added it back to the water.
> I mashed a few of the seeds. Boiled it, strained it, and only had a
> generous 2 cups of juice when it shoulda been 3. So I added about 1.5
> cups water to the pulp and boiled it again for 5 minutes and strained
> that. Now I had almost 3.5 cups of juice. I sliced the orange peel and
> half the lemon peel into slivers. Added the sugar to the juice and
> slowly brought it to a boil. I added the peel and boiled it hard for
> about 20 minutes. Then turned it off and went outside to do some
> errands. I was hoping the peel would absorb sugar so it wouldn't float.
> When I got back to it a few hours later, the stuff was already getting
> thick, and the spoon I had stirred it with had firm jelly in it. I
> brought it back to a hard boil for a few minutes and ladled into
> half-pint jars. It made exactly 5 jars. (I wanted an extra half a jar
> or so to eat tomorrow.) I BWB'ed it for 10 minutes, and set the jars on
> a towel to cool. It's really pretty, but the peel is still floating a
> little. The lids are pinging as I write this.
>
> Best regards,
> Bob
>
>
> LIMEYNO1 wrote:
>
>> Even if they're not Seville oranges, it should turn out quite nice. I'd
>> love to hear your results.
>>
>> Helen
>>
>> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> I looked at your recipe again a little closer and adjusted my ratios:
>>> 3 sour oranges
>>> 1 lemon
>>> 3.5 cups water
>>> 4.5 cups sugar
>>>
>>> I probably won't add all the lemon peel back after I extract the juice
>>> because I don't want the lemon to overpower the orange. I quartered all
>>> the fruit and picked out a few orange seeds to plant. The fruit is all
>>> simmering right now.
>>>
>>> I licked one of the cut oranges and it's quite sour but not very bitter.
>>> It looks sort of like a valencia orange inside, but firmer. The flesh is
> >> a
>>> very pale orangish yellow. They are very likely not seville oranges. The
>>> peels are getting a little brighter colored as they simmer, but I think I
>>> will have to add a drop of red food coloring to the batch.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> LIMEYNO1 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Perhaps you can work it out with my hubby's recipe?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------- * Easy Recipe Deluxe Export Format 1.3 * --------------
>>>>
>>>> Title: Jim's Orange Marmalade
>>>> Recipe By:
>>>> Category: Preserving; Family
>>>> Main Ingredient:
>>>> Cuisine Style:
>>>> Yield: 6 Servings
>>>> Preparation Time: 0:00
>>>> Cooking Time: 0:00
>>>>
>>>> [Amount] [Measure] [Ingredient (or Header)] -- [Preparation]
>>>> ---------- ------------ ----------------------------------------------
>>>> 2 lb Seville oranges (about 5)
>>>> 6 cup Water
>>>> 1 Lemon
>>>> 7 1/2 cup Sugar
>>>>
>>>> [Preparation]
>>>> Directions: Put 4 small saucers in freezer. In a very large pot,
>>>> combine oranges, lemon and water. Cover and bring to a simmer. Let
>>>> simmer 2 hours. DON'T ALLOW TO BOIL. Turn off heat. Remove fruit. Let
>>>> cool 5 minutes. Cut in half and scoop pulp, seeds and pith back into
>>>> pan. Put shells to one side. Bring pan to a boil and boil hard 5
>>>> minutes. Strain through damp cheese cloth in a seive. Gather ends and
>>>> squeeze out remaining juice. You should have 6 cups. Make up any
>>>> difference with water. Return liquid to pan. Remove all white pith
>>>> from skins. Cut skins in fine strips (or as desired) and add to pan
>>>> with sugar. Place over low heat and stir to dissolve sugar. Bring to
>>>> boil. Boil hard, stirring occasionally to prevent scorching. Boil
>>>> hard til jell point is reached, between 60 and 90 minutes depending
>>>> on natural fruit pectin available. Jell point test. Chill some
>>>> saucers in freezer while preparing marmalade, 2 or 3. Test: drop a
>>>> small amount of hot marmalade on chilled plate and chill for 2
>>>> minutes. Run finger through marmelade on plate. If surface wrinkles,
>>>> it has reached jelling point. If still syrupy, continue boiling.
>>>> Repeat test at 5 minute intervals til jell point is reached. Remove
>>>> pan from stove and stir for 5 minutes, skimming off any foam. Ladle
>>>> into sterilized jars, leaving 1/2 inch head space. Seal as you like
>>>>
>>>> - - - - - - - - - - - http://www.wensoftware.com - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>>

[snip]

(Erica) wrote in
om:

> Hi all,
>
> I have a few trees in the backyard that produce sour oranges. A large
> number of them have started ripening, so I thought that it would be
> nice to make a batch of marmalade. I have made jam and preserves
> before, but I've never made jelly or marmalade, and I have several
> questions (please bear with me!).

Erica,

There are many different methods for producing marmalade. The one you
detailed is common, but I find it messier to deal with and the end
product is not measurably better than any other I've tried.

The sour/bitter oranges you have will work beautifully in marmalade.
These oranges are grown all over the valley surrounding Phoenix, AZ, and
the only type easily available to me. I can't tell the difference in the
finished product from genuine Seville oranges.

The following recipe is one I have used many times and is from Delia
Smith's website. The results are delicious and consistent.

Traditional Seville Orange Marmalade

Makes six 1 lb (350 ml capacity) jars

2 lb (900 g) Seville oranges
1 lemon
4 lb (1.8 kg) granulated sugar (to speed the dissolving, this can be
warmed in the oven)

You will also need a preserving pan or a large, heavy-based saucepan; a 9
inch (23 cm) square of muslin (or gauze); some string; a funnel; and six
1 lb (350 ml capacity) jars, sterilised.

Begin by measuring 4 pints (2.25 litres) water into a preserving pan,
then cut the lemon and oranges in half and squeeze the juice out of them.
Add the juice to the water and place the pips and any bits of pith that
cling to the squeezer on the square of muslin (laid over a dish or cereal
bowl first). Now cut the orange peel into quarters with a sharp knife,
and then cut each quarter into thinnish shreds. As you cut, add the
shreds to the water and any pips or spare pith you come across should go
on to the muslin. The pith contains a lot of pectin so don't discard any
and don't worry about any pith and skin that clings to the shreds – it
all gets dissolved in the boiling.

Now tie the pips and pith up loosely in the muslin to form a little bag,
and tie this on to the handle of the pan so that the bag is suspended in
the water. Then bring the liquid up to simmering point and simmer gently,
uncovered, for 2 hours or thereabouts until the peel is completely soft
(test a piece carefully by pressing it between your finger and thumb).
Meanwhile, chill the saucers in the freezer compartment of the fridge.

Next, remove the bag of pips and leave it to cool on a saucer. Then pour
the sugar into the pan and stir it now and then over a low heat, until
all the crystals have dissolved (check this carefully, it's important).
Now increase the heat to very high and squeeze the bag of pips over the
pan to extract all of the sticky, jelly-like substance that contains the
pectin. As you squeeze you'll see it ooze out. You can do this by placing
the bag between two saucers or using your hands. Then stir or whisk it
into the rest.

As soon as the mixture reaches a really fast boil, start timing. Then
after 15 minutes spoon a little of the marmalade on to one of the cold
saucers from the fridge, and let it cool back in the fridge. You can tell
– when it has cooled – if you have a 'set' by pushing the mixture with
your little finger: if it has a really crinkly skin, it is set. If not,
continue to boil the marmalade and give it the same test at about 10-
minute intervals until it does set.

After that remove the pan from the heat (if there's a lot of scum, most
of it can be dispersed by stirring in half a teaspoon of butter, and the
rest can be spooned off). Leave the marmalade to settle for 20 minutes.

In the meantime, the jars should be washed, dried and heated in a
moderate oven for 5 minutes. Pour the marmalade, with the aid of a funnel
or a ladle, into the jars, cover with waxed discs and seal while still
hot. Label when cold and store in a dry, cool, dark place. Then hurry up
and make some toast to try some!

Scott > wrote in message >...
>
> Marmalade is made with the rind; if there is no rind, it's not
> marmalade. Peel the oranges and cut the peel into thin strips about 2-3
> inches long and about as wide as a matchstick.

Should I leave the pith attached to the zest, or just use the zest? I
know that the pith is rich in pectin, but I don't want the finished
product to be TOO bitter.

> > Second, I just have wild sour (bitter?) oranges growing in the yard,
> > can I substitute these in a recipe that calls for Seville oranges?
>
> No absolutely not. Pick all of the oranges and UPS them to me for proper
> disposal. Email me for the address.
>
> ... of course you can. Seville oranges are bitter oranges. Of course, I
> don't know the quality of the oranges you have, but that's a different
> issue.

My primary concern is that the oranges in the backyard have very thick
peels, and I was wondering if it is thinner on Sevilles.

If you want some bitter oranges, I'll mail them to you if you pay the
shipping cost. I have more of these than I know what to do with, and
they tend to fall, rot, and attract bugs. They're great instead of
lime in mojitos, or in black beans, or roast pork...

If you're interested, I'll drop you an email. Don't email the address
I use for posting, as it is just my "spam address".

Thanks to all who replied for the help!

--Erica