On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:53:26 GMT, Default User
> wrote:

>Michel Boucher wrote:
>
>> All I said was that this distinction between coriander and
>> "cilantro" was not necessary. And I stand by that.
>
>
>Whether you approve or not, in US English there *is* a distinction. The
>fresh or dried leaves are called cilantro, the seeds are called
>coriander. Regardless of whether it makes sense, it is what it is.

Nope. The *plant* is properly Coriandrum sativum. It is known by a
variety of names in different languages, most of them some varient on
'coriander.' 'Cilantro' is a Spanish alteration (it is also known as
coriandro in Spanish) of the original. As Michel writes, the
distinction is not strictly necessary.

However....the term 'cilantro', particularly in cooking, has come to
mean the leaves, stems, and sometimes roots of the plant, while
'coriander', again in a cooking context, more often refers to dried
whole or ground seeds. Some recipes specify 'cilantro'; others
'coriander leaf.' It's the same animal.

It should be fairly obvious in a recipe whether the seeds or ground
spice, or fresh leaves are called for. The flavors, like that of 'dill
weed' and 'dill seed' are totally different and used for different
dishes. The coriander/cilantro leaf is sometimes also called Chinese
or Indian parsley.

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:40:46 GMT, (Weiler)
wrote:

>
>Does anyone know if there is a dried version of Cilantro available
>anywhere ?
>
>And what about Jalepeno; is there a powder form like for chili and
>cayenne ?
>
>Just wishing I could have these on hand for those times I don't have
>the fresh and it's not feasible to get out.
>
>Thanks ...Kristina

Kristina,

Did you find the needle-like answers to your questions hidden in the
haystack of extraneous messages? :-)

David

"PENMART01" > wrote in message
...
> >Dave Smith wrote:
> >
> >Michel Boucher wrote:
> >>
> >> > While you want to argue the semantics of scientific naming; they
> >> > were discussing cooking and various tastes as they apply, not
> >> > phylogeny. Coriander and dried cilantro have different flavors.
> >>
> >> So, flavour determines the use of language. Interesting. Why then
> >> do you not call coriander seeds something other than coriander seeing
> >> as it most likely doesn't taste the same as the root?
> >
> >It's more than flavour Michel. Cilantro is indeed from a coriander
> >plant, but cilantro is commonly the leaves of the plant, and coriander
> >refers to the seeds. One is a herb and the other is a spice.
>
> Lanquage, schmanguage... Cilantro (actually Culantro) is Spanish for
Coriander.

Culantro is "recao" or "long coriander".

> "Nina" plead:
>
>"PENMART01" wrote:
>>
>> Lanquage, schmanguage... Cilantro (actually Culantro) is Spanish for
>Coriander.
>
>Culantro is "recao" or "long coriander".

Coriander nevertheless... mine is long and thick.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

"PENMART01" > wrote in message
...
> > "Nina" plead:
> >
> >"PENMART01" wrote:
> >>
> >> Lanquage, schmanguage... Cilantro (actually Culantro) is Spanish for
> >Coriander.
> >
> >Culantro is "recao" or "long coriander".
>
> Coriander nevertheless... mine is long and thick.
>

Coriander- Coriandrum sativum
Culantro-Eryngium Foetidum

I grew tons of the former and have lots and lots of seeds to show for it. I
WISH I could get the latter to grow here.

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 23:04:41 GMT, "Nina" >
wrote:
>
>Coriander- Coriandrum sativum
>Culantro-Eryngium Foetidum
>
>I grew tons of the former and have lots and lots of seeds to show for it. I
>WISH I could get the latter to grow here.
>
Nina is correct. However, to add fuel to this already hot fire, I
checked the Badia spice site mentioned in the thread about 'smoked
paprika' and found this:

http://www.cubanfoodguy.com/badiavariety.htm

(which is a picture of a little spice packet of dried leaves labeled
"Cilantro/Culantro")

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 23:04:41 GMT, "Nina" >
wrote:

>
[...]
>
>Coriander- Coriandrum sativum
>Culantro-Eryngium Foetidum
>
>I grew tons of the former and have lots and lots of seeds to show for it. I
>WISH I could get the latter to grow here.
>

Finally something interesting in here. I am curious. What sort of
seed did you use? Locally, (Texas) I have only found seed selected
for "slow bolting". It makes sense in that it is mostly used locally
for the foliage and we have a (too) hot climate. My experience is
that these selections produce seed about twice the size of mustard
seed rather than the larger, almost pea-sized seed sold as coriander
by better spice merchants.

Did you find seed that produces a good crop of larger "coriander"?

cheers

On 17 Jan 2004 15:18:48 GMT, Michel Boucher >
wrote:

>B.Server > wrote in
:
>
[...]
>>
>> On the contrary, the leaves and seeds are linguistically
>> distinguished in virtually every language in which the use of both
>> seeds and leaves are traditional (Thai, Burma, Indonesia, India,
>> for example) Thus, an Indian would be unlikely to follow your
>> suggestion that it does not matter which is put in garam masala or
>> which is put in a curry.
>
>You're being silly.
>
>> I presume that you also do not distinguish among the seeds and the
>> foliage of dill, fennel, and parsley in your cooking?
>
>Again. I do not suggest, nor have I ever done so, that they are
>interchangeable in cooking simply because they are both called
>coriander. I am suggesting that there is no need to insist that
>cilantro is the only proper term to refer to the leaves, just because
>7% of the world's population believes it to be so distinguished.
>Oy...

An neither I nor any other poster that I have seen on this thread have
insisted that "cilantro" is the *only* proper term to refer to the
leaves of the plant. Rather, the point is made that a distinction is
common and present in several languages and regions as well as useful.

And by the by, who are the 7%? If you mean those benighted residents
to your immediate south, it looks to me to be closer to 4.5%. If you
wish to include the world's Spanish speakers, it gets quite a bit
bigger. If you include a few others whose language makes a
distinction, the percentage easily exceeds 30%

"Michel Boucher" wrote in message
...

> "Mike Pearce" wrote: in

> > So, if I asked you to pick up some coriander for me at the market,
> > and you were kind enough to do it, what would you bring me? The
> > herb or the seed?
>
> You'd have to specify which you wanted, wouldn't you, just as yu would
> have to do it with beet roots or beet greens, or any other vegetable
> that has two consumable parts (nutmeg/mace excepted for some reason).
>

Given where I live, (Southern US) I would not feel the need to specify that
I meant the spice if asking for coriander, ground or hole, yes. I do not
need to specify the root when I'm talking about beets either. I would be
specific if discussing beet greens.

Where you live this may not be the case.

-Mike

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:17:30 GMT, B.Server
> wrote:

>On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 23:04:41 GMT, "Nina" >
>wrote:

>>Coriander- Coriandrum sativum
>>Culantro-Eryngium Foetidum
>>
>>I grew tons of the former and have lots and lots of seeds to show for it. I
>>WISH I could get the latter to grow here.
>>
>
>Finally something interesting in here. I am curious. What sort of
>seed did you use? Locally, (Texas) I have only found seed selected
>for "slow bolting". It makes sense in that it is mostly used locally
>for the foliage and we have a (too) hot climate. My experience is
>that these selections produce seed about twice the size of mustard
>seed rather than the larger, almost pea-sized seed sold as coriander
>by better spice merchants.
>
>Did you find seed that produces a good crop of larger "coriander"?

I have grown cilantro/coriander from a number of different seeds,
incl. coriander seeds from a spice jar and some seed packets sold as
'slow bolting' varieties. Haven't noticed a pin's-worth of difference
in their growing habits. None of these seeds were anywhere near
"pea-sized." I noticed on this page:

http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katz...?Cori_sat.html

that a picture of 'Indian' seeds showed something larger and less
spherical.

B.Server > wrote in
:

>>> I presume that you also do not distinguish among the seeds and
>>> the foliage of dill, fennel, and parsley in your cooking?
>>
>>Again. I do not suggest, nor have I ever done so, that they are
>>interchangeable in cooking simply because they are both called
>>coriander. I am suggesting that there is no need to insist that
>>cilantro is the only proper term to refer to the leaves, just
>>because 7% of the world's population believes it to be so
>>distinguished. Oy...
>
> neither I nor any other poster that I have seen on this thread
> have insisted that "cilantro" is the *only* proper term to refer
> to the leaves of the plant.

You haven't been reading this thread very carefully, have you.

This from PENMART01:

>The only one confused is you, idiot... we're talking cooking here, not
>botany. Your inability to accept constructive criticism is
>embarrassing, but only to you, pinhead.

This from Brian Rodenborn (Default User):

>Whether you approve or not, in US English there *is* a distinction.
>The fresh or dried leaves are called cilantro, the seeds are called
>coriander. Regardless of whether it makes sense, it is what it is.

And there are more. It seems that when I properly referred to it as
coriander and not cilantro, I offended some deep-seated insecurities
about common vegetation. :->

> And by the by, who are the 7%? If you mean those benighted
> residents to your immediate south, it looks to me to be closer to
> 4.5%.

I was being generous and factoring in the size of their egos :-)

--
"I'm the master of low expectations."

GWB, aboard Air Force One, 04Jun2003

Frogleg wrote:
>
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:53:26 GMT, Default User
> > wrote:

> >Whether you approve or not, in US English there *is* a distinction. The
> >fresh or dried leaves are called cilantro, the seeds are called
> >coriander. Regardless of whether it makes sense, it is what it is.
>
> Nope. The *plant* is properly Coriandrum sativum. It is known by a
> variety of names in different languages, most of them some varient on
> 'coriander.' 'Cilantro' is a Spanish alteration (it is also known as
> coriandro in Spanish) of the original. As Michel writes, the
> distinction is not strictly necessary.


How does contradict anything I said? I didn't mention the plant at all,
just the products derived from the plant.


> However....the term 'cilantro', particularly in cooking, has come to
> mean the leaves, stems, and sometimes roots of the plant, while
> 'coriander', again in a cooking context, more often refers to dried
> whole or ground seeds. Some recipes specify 'cilantro'; others
> 'coriander leaf.' It's the same animal.

I've never seen a US recipe that called the leaves coriander. That
doesn't mean there aren't some out there, but for the most part, in the
US (which means not necessarily anywhere else) the leaves, dried or
fresh herbs, are called cilantro. The seeds, found dried as a spice, are
called coriander. You yourself said as much above.

I don't know how you come up with a "nope" response to my assertion.




Brian Rodenborn

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 19:55:37 GMT, Frogleg > wrote:

>On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:17:30 GMT, B.Server
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 23:04:41 GMT, "Nina" >
>>wrote:
>[...]
>>
>>Did you find seed that produces a good crop of larger "coriander"?
>
>I have grown cilantro/coriander from a number of different seeds,
>incl. coriander seeds from a spice jar and some seed packets sold as
>'slow bolting' varieties. Haven't noticed a pin's-worth of difference
>in their growing habits. None of these seeds were anywhere near
>"pea-sized." I noticed on this page:
>
>http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katz...?Cori_sat.html
>
>that a picture of 'Indian' seeds showed something larger and less
>spherical.

Well maybe is just the basically bad growing conditions that make for
small seed around here. I have tried seed that was reputed to be
Asian as well as the local "slow bolt" seed. Both produced small
seed/fruit and were not worth waiting for the fruit to ripen.

Dried cilantro is available, but it is totally flavorless. It's really not
worth using. It does not taste at all like fresh cilantro.

As others have said, corriander and cilantro are terms that may both be used
to talk about the leaves. It's a bit more common to call the leaves
cilantro, except when they are used in asian recipes, where they are
frequently called corriander. The seeds are almost always referred to as
corriander seeds, and "ground corriander" is always the seed.

Recipes that call for jalepeno usually want the flavor and texture of the
fresh pepper, not just the heat. You won't get that from a powder. If you
just want some peppery heat, you can use a touch of ceyenne pepper, but it's
not really a substitute for the texture and flavor of a fresh (or even a
canned) jalepeno pepper.

Christine



"Weiler" > wrote in message
om...
>
> Does anyone know if there is a dried version of Cilantro available
> anywhere ?
>
> And what about Jalepeno; is there a powder form like for chili and
> cayenne ?
>
> Just wishing I could have these on hand for those times I don't have
> the fresh and it's not feasible to get out.
>
> Thanks ...Kristina