I just got a few Calphalon pieces (the "Commercial" anodized models,
without any nonstick coating).

The brochure which came with them warns against putting them in the
dishwasher.

Why is this? What happens if they are run throught the dishwasher?

--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who

in article , at
wrote on 1/16/04 8:59 PM:

> I just got a few Calphalon pieces (the "Commercial" anodized models,
> without any nonstick coating).
>
> The brochure which came with them warns against putting them in the
> dishwasher.
>
> Why is this? What happens if they are run throught the dishwasher?

The harsh chemicals in the dishwashing detergent will wear away at the
anodized coating.

Sheryl Rosen > wrote:
>The harsh chemicals in the dishwashing detergent will wear away at the
>anodized coating.

I don't know about "harsh" so much as the simple fact that
certain chemicals will react with certain other chemicals,
and everything is a chemical...

--Blair
"Wouldn't you like to be a pepper tu?"

in article , Blair P. Houghton at
wrote on 1/17/04 11:58 PM:

> Sheryl Rosen > wrote:
>> The harsh chemicals in the dishwashing detergent will wear away at the
>> anodized coating.
>
> I don't know about "harsh" so much as the simple fact that
> certain chemicals will react with certain other chemicals,
> and everything is a chemical...
>
> --Blair
> "Wouldn't you like to be a pepper tu?"

"Harsh", in comparison to hand-dishwashing detergent, which don't wear away
at the coating. Not to mention, "harsh", as in there is a warning to avoid
skin contact with it when it's dissolved in water.

You're really splitting hairs now.

Sheryl Rosen > wrote in
:

> in article , Blair P.
> Houghton at wrote on 1/17/04 11:58 PM:
>
>> Sheryl Rosen > wrote:
>>> The harsh chemicals in the dishwashing detergent will wear away at
>>> the anodized coating.
>>
>> I don't know about "harsh" so much as the simple fact that
>> certain chemicals will react with certain other chemicals,
>> and everything is a chemical...
>>
>> --Blair
>> "Wouldn't you like to be a pepper tu?"
>
> "Harsh", in comparison to hand-dishwashing detergent, which don't wear
> away at the coating. Not to mention, "harsh", as in there is a warning
> to avoid skin contact with it when it's dissolved in water.
>
> You're really splitting hairs now.
>
>

There is lye in dishwasher soap. Lye is defined as a corrossive and harsh
chemical...another use of lye is in drain cleaners (used there to dissolve
hair among other things).

--
Once during Prohibition I was forced to live for days on nothing but food
and water.
--------
FIELDS, W. C.

hahabogus > wrote:
>There is lye in dishwasher soap. Lye is defined as a corrossive and harsh
>chemical...another use of lye is in drain cleaners (used there to dissolve
>hair among other things).

Wait until you find out about the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide.

--Blair
"I'll have another plate of hominy, thanks."

In rec.food.cooking, Sheryl Rosen > wrote:
> in article , at
> wrote on 1/16/04 8:59 PM:

> > I just got a few Calphalon pieces (the "Commercial" anodized models,
> > without any nonstick coating).
> >
> > The brochure which came with them warns against putting them in the
> > dishwasher.
> >
> > Why is this? What happens if they are run throught the dishwasher?

> The harsh chemicals in the dishwashing detergent will wear away at the
> anodized coating.

So is this something that takes place over a period of years, or is it
something that will cause you to rue the day that you EVER put your
Calphalon in the dishwasher?

I got them on Amazon for some excellent prices ($20 bucks!), and they work
well, but I'd really rather just throw them in the dishwasher if it will
take a while for there to be any adverse affects. For the price I got
them for, it would be nice to treat them like any other cheap pot or pan.
Hell, for 20 bucks, I could replace them every few years and not worry.

And what happens if the anodized coating gets eaten through, anyway?

Had I paid full price, I'd trat them like gold. For what I paid, I can
cook with them over a campfire and not worry too much...

--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who

In rec.food.cooking, wrote:

> Had I paid full price, I'd trat them like gold. For what I paid, I can
> cook with them over a campfire and not worry too much...

Sorry to follow up my own post, but I just had another look on amazon.
There's another couple of cheap pieces there. For example, there's a
Calphalon Commercial Hard-Anodized 8-1/2-Quart Saucier with Lid
for $40, which they claim is regularly $180. And there's a Nonstick
10-Inch International Griddle/Crepe Pan for $26.

It seems that the pieces which are lowest in price are unusual shapes and
sizes, but the Saucier looks pretty handy.


--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who

> wrote in message
...
> In rec.food.cooking, wrote:
with them over a campfire and not worry too much...
>
> Sorry to follow up my own post, but I just had another look on amazon.
> There's another couple of cheap pieces there. For example, there's a
> Calphalon Commercial Hard-Anodized 8-1/2-Quart Saucier with Lid
> for $40, which they claim is regularly $180. And there's a Nonstick
> 10-Inch International Griddle/Crepe Pan for $26.


Actually, the prices are low because Calphalon is discontinuing that style.
That style of Calphalon commerical is on sale everywhere. I got a nice 5.5
qt saucepan at the Bon Marche at a good discount, but it was the very last
that they had. The new-style Calphalon Commercial has a different handle
(shinier and rounder) and different lids (domed glass, I believe).

-Matt

Matt wrote:

> > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Sorry to follow up my own post, but I just had another look on amazon.
>>There's another couple of cheap pieces there. For example, there's a
>>Calphalon Commercial Hard-Anodized 8-1/2-Quart Saucier with Lid
>>for $40, which they claim is regularly $180. And there's a Nonstick
>>10-Inch International Griddle/Crepe Pan for $26.

I bought one of the crepe pans. Wonderful. Heavy. Heats well and
evenly. Cleans effortlessly.

Pastorio

"Matt" > wrote in message >...
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > In rec.food.cooking, wrote:
> with them over a campfire and not worry too much...
> >
> > Sorry to follow up my own post, but I just had another look on amazon.
> > There's another couple of cheap pieces there. For example, there's a
> > Calphalon Commercial Hard-Anodized 8-1/2-Quart Saucier with Lid
> > for $40, which they claim is regularly $180. And there's a Nonstick
> > 10-Inch International Griddle/Crepe Pan for $26.
>
>
> Actually, the prices are low because Calphalon is discontinuing that style.
> That style of Calphalon commerical is on sale everywhere. I got a nice 5.5
> qt saucepan at the Bon Marche at a good discount, but it was the very last
> that they had. The new-style Calphalon Commercial has a different handle
> (shinier and rounder) and different lids (domed glass, I believe).
>
> -Matt

That sucks. I like my metal lids.

-L.

wrote:

[snip]
>
> I got them on Amazon for some excellent prices ($20 bucks!), and they work
> well, but I'd really rather just throw them in the dishwasher if it will
> take a while for there to be any adverse affects. For the price I got
> them for, it would be nice to treat them like any other cheap pot or pan.
> Hell, for 20 bucks, I could replace them every few years and not worry.
>
> And what happens if the anodized coating gets eaten through, anyway?
>
> Had I paid full price, I'd trat them like gold. For what I paid, I can
> cook with them over a campfire and not worry too much...
>

When you find you need to replace them, you're not likely to find them at
such a good price. Keep them out of the dishwasher and you should never
have to replace them at all.

---jkb

--
Lisa: "Do we have any food that wasn't brutally slaughtered?"
Homer: "Well, I think the veal died of loneliness."

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:12:31 -0800, Jeff Bienstadt
> arranged random neurons, so they looked like
this:

>When you find you need to replace them, you're not likely to find them at
>such a good price. Keep them out of the dishwasher and you should never
>have to replace them at all.
>
IIRC when I worked at a cookery shop, Calphalon will replace *any*
piece that becomes discolored, etc. We had a guy come in who had
clearly used the pan on a campfire and Calphalon replaced it. <shrug>

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret
had been as old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had
been as full as the waitress', it would have been a very
good dinner." Anonymous.

To reply, remove replace "shcox" with "cox"

wrote in message >...
> In rec.food.cooking, Sheryl Rosen > wrote:
> > in article , at
> > wrote on 1/16/04 8:59 PM:

>
> And what happens if the anodized coating gets eaten through, anyway?

Not much. You'll be back to a regular heavy aluminum pot. General
wear & tear over years will do that to the inside bottom.
>
> Had I paid full price, I'd trat them like gold. For what I paid, I can
> cook with them over a campfire and not worry too much...

We live in a disposable society, but why mess with good pans that you
found at a great price? Must you pay a lot of $$$ just to treat them
well?

wrote in :

> So is this something that takes place over a period of years, or is it
> something that will cause you to rue the day that you EVER put your
> Calphalon in the dishwasher?

I don't think you'd rue experimenting one time, but I bet it's not
something you're going to continue, if your experience is like mine was.

I have the Commercial line of Calphalon. I tend to do things first and read
instructions later, so some of our pots went into the dishwasher twice
before I read that they weren't supposed to.

Both times, they came out with a film on them that had to be scrubbed off.
It was easy enough to get off, but the time it took me to scrub the pans
made waste of the time savings I thought I was getting by putting them in
the washer.

FWIW, I used Cascade and no rinse aid.

Cate

wrote in message >...
> In rec.food.cooking, Sheryl Rosen > wrote:
> > in article , at
> > wrote on 1/16/04 8:59 PM:
>
> > > I just got a few Calphalon pieces (the "Commercial" anodized models,
> > > without any nonstick coating).
> > >
> > > The brochure which came with them warns against putting them in the
> > > dishwasher.
> > >
> > > Why is this? What happens if they are run throught the dishwasher?
>
> > The harsh chemicals in the dishwashing detergent will wear away at the
> > anodized coating.
>
> So is this something that takes place over a period of years, or is it
> something that will cause you to rue the day that you EVER put your
> Calphalon in the dishwasher?

DH ruined one of mine by running it through the DW ONCE. Don't do it.

>
> I got them on Amazon for some excellent prices ($20 bucks!), and they work
> well, but I'd really rather just throw them in the dishwasher if it will
> take a while for there to be any adverse affects. For the price I got
> them for, it would be nice to treat them like any other cheap pot or pan.
> Hell, for 20 bucks, I could replace them every few years and not worry.
>
> And what happens if the anodized coating gets eaten through, anyway?

They lose their non-stick ability and the anodization begins to
scratch off into your food, teeny bit by teeny bit. They also become
harder to clean and look like shit.

>
> Had I paid full price, I'd trat them like gold. For what I paid, I can
> cook with them over a campfire and not worry too much...

Well, why ruin a perfectly good pot that will last you your entire
life (and I'm not kidding) simply because you are too lazy to wash by
hand? They wash very, very easily, anyway. That's one of the charms
of the brand.

-L.
(Commercial line owner)

wrote:
> Sheryl Rosen wrote:
>
> > > Why is this? What happens if they are run throught the dishwasher?
>
> > The harsh chemicals in the dishwashing detergent will wear away at the
> > anodized coating.
>
> So is this something that takes place over a period of years, or is it
> something that will cause you to rue the day that you EVER put your
> Calphalon in the dishwasher?

It depends on your use. Around 8 years ago I got an assortment of
hard anodized Magnalite pans. One was a sauteeing pan. After about
10 trips through the washer, its fine surface had been etched enough
to seriously interfere with its "stick resistance". For a saucepan
that would be no big deal but it was the death knell for a sauteeing
pan.

> And what happens if the anodized coating gets eaten through, anyway?

Eventually it gets down to the metalic aluminum underneath and it
becomes just like any other cheaper pan.

The strength of the hard anodized coating is it is mechanically HARD.
It is the same chemical as sapphire (or was it garnet). Extremely
hard so it lasts and lasts. If you use stainless steel spatula you
can end up wearing down the stainless steel and getting marks on the
pan that are actually stainless steel scraped off of the spatula.

Unfortunately the weakness of the hard anodized coating is that it
is not particularly resistant to either bases or acids. Put it
through the dishwasher enough and the basic detergent will gradually
etch the surface down. Cook enough tomatoes and the acidic sauce
will gradually etch the surface down.

Over time I have replaced my assortment with other pieces.

In rec.food.cooking, Doug Freyburger > wrote:

> It depends on your use. Around 8 years ago I got an assortment of
> hard anodized Magnalite pans. One was a sauteeing pan. After about
> 10 trips through the washer, its fine surface had been etched enough
> to seriously interfere with its "stick resistance". For a saucepan
> that would be no big deal but it was the death knell for a sauteeing
> pan.

> > And what happens if the anodized coating gets eaten through, anyway?

> Eventually it gets down to the metalic aluminum underneath and it
> becomes just like any other cheaper pan.

> The strength of the hard anodized coating is it is mechanically HARD.
> It is the same chemical as sapphire (or was it garnet). Extremely
> hard so it lasts and lasts. If you use stainless steel spatula you
> can end up wearing down the stainless steel and getting marks on the
> pan that are actually stainless steel scraped off of the spatula.

> Unfortunately the weakness of the hard anodized coating is that it
> is not particularly resistant to either bases or acids. Put it
> through the dishwasher enough and the basic detergent will gradually
> etch the surface down. Cook enough tomatoes and the acidic sauce
> will gradually etch the surface down.

Excellent info. Thanks, Doug. So sapphires (or is it garnets?) are made
of aluminum ozide? I never knew that.

I've used my new pans a few times since I got them. I like them a lot. I
like the fact that they are very simple, being just machined aluminum with
a handle riveted on, and that the utility comes from the design, rather
than from gimmicks. They distribute the heat well, and because of the
design, the handles stay quite cool. Now that I know the properties of the
anodized coating, I think that is pretty cool too.

I looked at some other Calphalon pans in a store, and the surface isn't
nearly as smooth as it is on these. The cutting lathe used on the other
line must be set coarser, in order to cut faster and keep production costs
down. These are simply well made.

Thanks too to whoever pointed out that the whole line is being
discontinued by Calphalon. I'm going to go to some kitchen stores to see
what other sizes I can find cheap. This seems like a rare opportunity to
get some good quality stuff at blowout prices. Normally, for $20, you can
get a merely OK pot, rather than an excellent one. At the "regular"
prices listed at Amazon, I'd never have bought these.

--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who

wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> > The strength of the hard anodized coating is it is mechanically HARD.
> > It is the same chemical as sapphire (or was it garnet). Extremely
> > hard so it lasts and lasts. If you use stainless steel spatula you
> > can end up wearing down the stainless steel and getting marks on the
> > pan that are actually stainless steel scraped off of the spatula.
>
> > Unfortunately the weakness of the hard anodized coating is that it
> > is not particularly resistant to either bases or acids. Put it
> > through the dishwasher enough and the basic detergent will gradually
> > etch the surface down. Cook enough tomatoes and the acidic sauce
> > will gradually etch the surface down.
>
> So sapphires (or is it garnets?) are made of aluminum ozide?

Magnalite's claim to fame is it uses magnesium instead of aluminum in
its anodization process. More resistant to chemical etching with little
sacrafice in mechanical hardness. So its something in the range of
(aluminim and/or magnesium) (oxide and/or silicate). I don't know the
exact chemistry of gems.

I've never considered cleaning my rings in the dishwasher, but now I
know it would be a bad idea. Shrug, I clean my eyeglasses in the
dishwasher every month or two because I have oily skin and it just
builds up. Folks bug me about that. May as well not give them
soemthing to bug me about for my jewelry.

> I've used my new pans a few times since I got them. I like them a lot. I
> like the fact that they are very simple, being just machined aluminum with
> a handle riveted on, and that the utility comes from the design, rather
> than from gimmicks. They distribute the heat well, and because of the
> design, the handles stay quite cool. Now that I know the properties of the
> anodized coating, I think that is pretty cool too.

Well made sure. It is a matter of personal tastes, but I think I live
in the wrong century to tolerate anything in my kitchen that is not
dishwasher safe. So I've slowly shifted to pans covered with stainless
steel. I struggle with the idea that my knives are an exception to
this wrong-century rule. Some day over the rainbow I may get around
to swapping them out one by one, even if it results in slightly lower
quality. Sabatier and Henckels 4-star are nice, but they don't go in
the machine.

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:59:35 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

>I just got a few Calphalon pieces (the "Commercial" anodized models,
>without any nonstick coating).
>
>The brochure which came with them warns against putting them in the
>dishwasher.
>
>Why is this? What happens if they are run throught the dishwasher?

Just use a Scotchbrite pad on the pan dunked in warm dishwater! It'll
clean up with a few swipes!

Regards,
Bill