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On 2004-10-16, PENMART01 > wrote:
> include my bar tab in computing the tip. I tip the bar separately from my > dinner. I know in advance.......[snippage] Holy crap! They're ice skating in Hell! nb |
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"baker" wrote:
<snip> > While some of these trendy drinks may be very appealing, it's a shame > that some a**hole decided to brand them "martinis", which they clearly > are not. Every dictionary reference I can find defines a martini as "a > cocktail made of gin (or vodka) with dry vermouth". These new drinks are > no more martinis than is a Black or White Russian, which are not that > different from these new drinks, IMNSHO. > > One recent martini encounter began with a cocktail waitress suggesting > one of various of the new "martinis", to which I replied, "I want a > martini, not a fruit cocktail!" An acquaintance of mine is known to retort: "I can get a milkshake at McDonald's." > To avoid future such idiocy, I now order a Beefeater Gibson with extra > onion... Really? And no one says "What's that?" <although once when I ordered something and gave a list of its ingredients, I did have one waitperson ask "Is that what's in it?" > |
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"baker" wrote:
<snip> > While some of these trendy drinks may be very appealing, it's a shame > that some a**hole decided to brand them "martinis", which they clearly > are not. Every dictionary reference I can find defines a martini as "a > cocktail made of gin (or vodka) with dry vermouth". These new drinks are > no more martinis than is a Black or White Russian, which are not that > different from these new drinks, IMNSHO. > > One recent martini encounter began with a cocktail waitress suggesting > one of various of the new "martinis", to which I replied, "I want a > martini, not a fruit cocktail!" An acquaintance of mine is known to retort: "I can get a milkshake at McDonald's." > To avoid future such idiocy, I now order a Beefeater Gibson with extra > onion... Really? And no one says "What's that?" <although once when I ordered something and gave a list of its ingredients, I did have one waitperson ask "Is that what's in it?" > |
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PENMART01 wrote:
> And there is no reason to pity a server's wage... a good server at a quality > restaurant nets more than your typical college degreed professional... very > often substantially more than the head chef. A decent waiter in a beer joint probably makes more than the chef in a decent restaurant. I have a niece and nephew that wait tables in a mediocre bar and they make better money on a 6 hour shift than I used to make in a 10 hour work day. My nephew went to university to learn hotel management and went back to waiting tables because he could make a lot more doing that. > The only people who think food > service workers aren't paid well are those cheap *******s who always whine > about their poor service, because they haven't a clue about how to tip and/or > behave like a mench... those feral beasts have no social skills on any level, > they're uncouth. Nuts to that. When I go to a good restaurant I am already paying extra, and good service should be part of that. I always leave a decent tip at the when I pay my bill. I don't think I should have to bribe a waiter ahead of time for good service in the hope I will be indulged. If I don't get decent service I won't be back. The onus is on them to provide the good service first. |
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PENMART01 wrote:
> And there is no reason to pity a server's wage... a good server at a quality > restaurant nets more than your typical college degreed professional... very > often substantially more than the head chef. A decent waiter in a beer joint probably makes more than the chef in a decent restaurant. I have a niece and nephew that wait tables in a mediocre bar and they make better money on a 6 hour shift than I used to make in a 10 hour work day. My nephew went to university to learn hotel management and went back to waiting tables because he could make a lot more doing that. > The only people who think food > service workers aren't paid well are those cheap *******s who always whine > about their poor service, because they haven't a clue about how to tip and/or > behave like a mench... those feral beasts have no social skills on any level, > they're uncouth. Nuts to that. When I go to a good restaurant I am already paying extra, and good service should be part of that. I always leave a decent tip at the when I pay my bill. I don't think I should have to bribe a waiter ahead of time for good service in the hope I will be indulged. If I don't get decent service I won't be back. The onus is on them to provide the good service first. |
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In article >, Ellie C
> wrote: > Well, sure. But there are some people who don't have the option of > finishing school for one reason or another. And besides, we do need > people to fill this sort of job and others like it. If everyone finished > school who would pump gas, wait on tables, serve burgers, bag groceries, > etc. It's s whole segment of the work population who are simply paid as > little as can be gotten away with. The next year's worth of students. Regards, Ranee -- Remove Do Not and Spam to email "She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13 See my Blog at: http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/ |
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In article >, Ellie C
> wrote: > Well, sure. But there are some people who don't have the option of > finishing school for one reason or another. And besides, we do need > people to fill this sort of job and others like it. If everyone finished > school who would pump gas, wait on tables, serve burgers, bag groceries, > etc. It's s whole segment of the work population who are simply paid as > little as can be gotten away with. The next year's worth of students. Regards, Ranee -- Remove Do Not and Spam to email "She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13 See my Blog at: http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/ |
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On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:49:18 -0600, "pennyaline"
> wrote: > Wait a minute. Whoa up. Is that a fair analogy? When I call my ISP, no one > answers the phone  > > <and the cable, gas and electric companies refer callers to their websites!> I am truly sorry for you. My ISP still answers the phone as does my cable, gas and electric companies. sf Practice safe eating - always use condiments |
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On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:49:18 -0600, "pennyaline"
> wrote: > Wait a minute. Whoa up. Is that a fair analogy? When I call my ISP, no one > answers the phone > > <and the cable, gas and electric companies refer callers to their websites!> I am truly sorry for you. My ISP still answers the phone as does my cable, gas and electric companies. sf Practice safe eating - always use condiments |
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writes:
> >(PENMART01) wrote: > >>90% of the time I order 2nis up, they taste better without all that ice. > > >A mar2ni isn't a margarita... so it just isn't right over the rocks unless you take it >very, very dry - with only a hint of vermouth. > >There's a restaurant here where I order Manhattans... they >come in their own mini shaker which contains 2 pours into >generously sized stemmed glasses. That's the way I like my >drinks served! Sheesh, can't take you anywhere... Manhattans are not shaken, they're stirred, gently. http://www.webtender.com/db/drink/1641 Manhattan Ingredients: 3/4 oz Sweet Vermouth 2 1/2 oz Blended Bourbon dash Angostura bitters 2 or 3 Ice cubes 1 Maraschino cherry 1 twist of Orange peel Mixing instructions: Combine the vermouth, whiskey, bitters and ice in a mixing glass. Stir gently, don't bruise the spirits and cloud the drink. Place the cherry in a chilled cocktail glass and strain the whiskey mixture over the cherry. Rub the cut edge of the orange peel over the rim of the glass and twist it over the drink to release the oils but don't drop it in. --- ---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- ********* "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." Sheldon ```````````` |
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writes:
> >(PENMART01) wrote: > >>90% of the time I order 2nis up, they taste better without all that ice. > > >A mar2ni isn't a margarita... so it just isn't right over the rocks unless you take it >very, very dry - with only a hint of vermouth. > >There's a restaurant here where I order Manhattans... they >come in their own mini shaker which contains 2 pours into >generously sized stemmed glasses. That's the way I like my >drinks served! Sheesh, can't take you anywhere... Manhattans are not shaken, they're stirred, gently. http://www.webtender.com/db/drink/1641 Manhattan Ingredients: 3/4 oz Sweet Vermouth 2 1/2 oz Blended Bourbon dash Angostura bitters 2 or 3 Ice cubes 1 Maraschino cherry 1 twist of Orange peel Mixing instructions: Combine the vermouth, whiskey, bitters and ice in a mixing glass. Stir gently, don't bruise the spirits and cloud the drink. Place the cherry in a chilled cocktail glass and strain the whiskey mixture over the cherry. Rub the cut edge of the orange peel over the rim of the glass and twist it over the drink to release the oils but don't drop it in. --- ---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- ********* "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation." Sheldon ```````````` |
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On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:21:19 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote: > I agree with a lot of what you have to say here, and that brings me back to my pet > peeve about tipping and corkage on the more expensive wines. I can go along with > tipping to supplement substandard wages to wait staff, In Canada, there is a wide spread practice of providing uncorking the wine and providing glasses to drink it in for free, in the US it's not a common practice. We have corkage fees. > but damn it I hate to be > expected to pay an extra high tip based on a percentage of something where I am > being gouged on the price, gouged on corkage fees and gouged on taxes. Around > here, that bottle of wine that costs a dollar to produce sells for $8 in the > liquor store. The restaurant charges $18 or more, then there is provincial and > federal tax, so the bill adds up to about $21. So now I am expected to pay at > least a $3 tip. Geeze. You sound like you were born yesterday! Forget including the corkage fee, it's a tip all by itself. In the US, we make it easy on ourselves and double the tax for a tip. So, if tax is $8, the tip is $16 and that's a fair tip in these parts. sf Practice safe eating - always use condiments |
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On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:21:19 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote: > I agree with a lot of what you have to say here, and that brings me back to my pet > peeve about tipping and corkage on the more expensive wines. I can go along with > tipping to supplement substandard wages to wait staff, In Canada, there is a wide spread practice of providing uncorking the wine and providing glasses to drink it in for free, in the US it's not a common practice. We have corkage fees. > but damn it I hate to be > expected to pay an extra high tip based on a percentage of something where I am > being gouged on the price, gouged on corkage fees and gouged on taxes. Around > here, that bottle of wine that costs a dollar to produce sells for $8 in the > liquor store. The restaurant charges $18 or more, then there is provincial and > federal tax, so the bill adds up to about $21. So now I am expected to pay at > least a $3 tip. Geeze. You sound like you were born yesterday! Forget including the corkage fee, it's a tip all by itself. In the US, we make it easy on ourselves and double the tax for a tip. So, if tax is $8, the tip is $16 and that's a fair tip in these parts. sf Practice safe eating - always use condiments |
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On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:20:44 GMT, baker >
wrote: > While some of these trendy drinks may be very appealing, it's a shame > that some a**hole decided to brand them "martinis", which they clearly > are not. Every dictionary reference I can find defines a martini as "a > cocktail made of gin (or vodka) with dry vermouth". These new drinks are > no more martinis than is a Black or White Russian, which are not that > different from these new drinks, IMNSHO. > Agree! I think that's why they have "names", like Cosmopolitan. The orange flavored vodka with a drop of Grand Marnier has a name (which I've never memorized) as do most of the others. They are probably called Martinis only because they are served in a martini glass. > One recent martini encounter began with a cocktail waitress suggesting > one of various of the new "martinis", to which I replied, "I want a > martini, not a fruit cocktail!" > <chuckle> > To avoid future such idiocy, I now order a Beefeater Gibson with extra > onion...not even a whispered reference to "martini". > Good for you! sf Practice safe eating - always use condiments |
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On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:20:44 GMT, baker >
wrote: > While some of these trendy drinks may be very appealing, it's a shame > that some a**hole decided to brand them "martinis", which they clearly > are not. Every dictionary reference I can find defines a martini as "a > cocktail made of gin (or vodka) with dry vermouth". These new drinks are > no more martinis than is a Black or White Russian, which are not that > different from these new drinks, IMNSHO. > Agree! I think that's why they have "names", like Cosmopolitan. The orange flavored vodka with a drop of Grand Marnier has a name (which I've never memorized) as do most of the others. They are probably called Martinis only because they are served in a martini glass. > One recent martini encounter began with a cocktail waitress suggesting > one of various of the new "martinis", to which I replied, "I want a > martini, not a fruit cocktail!" > <chuckle> > To avoid future such idiocy, I now order a Beefeater Gibson with extra > onion...not even a whispered reference to "martini". > Good for you! sf Practice safe eating - always use condiments |
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sf > wrote in
: > On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:20:44 GMT, baker > > wrote: > >> While some of these trendy drinks may be very appealing, it's a >> shame that some a**hole decided to brand them "martinis", which they >> clearly are not. Every dictionary reference I can find defines a >> martini as "a cocktail made of gin (or vodka) with dry vermouth". >> These new drinks are no more martinis than is a Black or White >> Russian, which are not that different from these new drinks, IMNSHO. >> > Agree! I think that's why they have "names", like > Cosmopolitan. The orange flavored vodka with a drop of > Grand Marnier has a name (which I've never memorized) as do > most of the others. They are probably called Martinis only > because they are served in a martini glass. > Perhaps also because they include vodka which with vermouth, as such, is a recognized martini, although not with the history of the gin martini. IIRC, the "vodkatini" as it was originally dubbed, came at least 30 years after the gin martini which is around a hundred years old. If one order simply a "martini" as late as 30-40 years ago, it was usually assumed to be a gin martini. Now, more than likely, it would be assumed to be a vodka martini, the fruit cocktails notwithstanding. > >> One recent martini encounter began with a cocktail waitress >> suggesting one of various of the new "martinis", to which I replied, >> "I want a martini, not a fruit cocktail!" >> > <chuckle> > >> To avoid future such idiocy, I now order a Beefeater Gibson with >> extra onion...not even a whispered reference to "martini". >> > Good for you! All this martini talk has reminded me of a bar I used to frequent in the 1960s and early 1970s called the Hanna Pub which also served some excellent grub. They were renown for their Beefeater and Sapphire martinis and no one served a better or bigger drink. Bartender and imbibers alike looked askance at those who ordered vodka. Their standard martini was a double (actually more like a triple) served in a heavy bottomed 8 oz. glass or a rediculously large stemmed martini glass. One had to be very specific if preferring to order a single martini. -- It's me, Baker! When the Chips are Down, the Buffalo is Empty. |
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sf > wrote in
: > On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:20:44 GMT, baker > > wrote: > >> While some of these trendy drinks may be very appealing, it's a >> shame that some a**hole decided to brand them "martinis", which they >> clearly are not. Every dictionary reference I can find defines a >> martini as "a cocktail made of gin (or vodka) with dry vermouth". >> These new drinks are no more martinis than is a Black or White >> Russian, which are not that different from these new drinks, IMNSHO. >> > Agree! I think that's why they have "names", like > Cosmopolitan. The orange flavored vodka with a drop of > Grand Marnier has a name (which I've never memorized) as do > most of the others. They are probably called Martinis only > because they are served in a martini glass. > Perhaps also because they include vodka which with vermouth, as such, is a recognized martini, although not with the history of the gin martini. IIRC, the "vodkatini" as it was originally dubbed, came at least 30 years after the gin martini which is around a hundred years old. If one order simply a "martini" as late as 30-40 years ago, it was usually assumed to be a gin martini. Now, more than likely, it would be assumed to be a vodka martini, the fruit cocktails notwithstanding. > >> One recent martini encounter began with a cocktail waitress >> suggesting one of various of the new "martinis", to which I replied, >> "I want a martini, not a fruit cocktail!" >> > <chuckle> > >> To avoid future such idiocy, I now order a Beefeater Gibson with >> extra onion...not even a whispered reference to "martini". >> > Good for you! All this martini talk has reminded me of a bar I used to frequent in the 1960s and early 1970s called the Hanna Pub which also served some excellent grub. They were renown for their Beefeater and Sapphire martinis and no one served a better or bigger drink. Bartender and imbibers alike looked askance at those who ordered vodka. Their standard martini was a double (actually more like a triple) served in a heavy bottomed 8 oz. glass or a rediculously large stemmed martini glass. One had to be very specific if preferring to order a single martini. -- It's me, Baker! When the Chips are Down, the Buffalo is Empty. |
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sf wrote (10/16/2004):
<snip> >Is this the same McCormick as in McCormick and Kuleto of >Ghirardelli Square in San Francisco? Yes. |
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sf wrote (10/16/2004):
<snip> >Is this the same McCormick as in McCormick and Kuleto of >Ghirardelli Square in San Francisco? Yes. |
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sf wrote:
> > In Canada, there is a wide spread practice of providing > uncorking the wine and providing glasses to drink it in for > free, in the US it's not a common practice. We have corkage > fees. > Not in this part of Canada. Ontario has just introduced the possibility that it might allow customers to bring their own wine. Many reatauranteurs are objecting to the proposal because they figure that they will lose on the deal. They make a lot of profit off wine sales. |
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sf wrote:
> > In Canada, there is a wide spread practice of providing > uncorking the wine and providing glasses to drink it in for > free, in the US it's not a common practice. We have corkage > fees. > Not in this part of Canada. Ontario has just introduced the possibility that it might allow customers to bring their own wine. Many reatauranteurs are objecting to the proposal because they figure that they will lose on the deal. They make a lot of profit off wine sales. |
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sf wrote:
> > In Canada, there is a wide spread practice of providing > uncorking the wine and providing glasses to drink it in for > free, in the US it's not a common practice. We have corkage > fees. > Not in this part of Canada. Ontario has just introduced the possibility that it might allow customers to bring their own wine. Many reatauranteurs are objecting to the proposal because they figure that they will lose on the deal. They make a lot of profit off wine sales. |
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The Ranger wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:45:38 +0200, Ellie C > > wrote: > >>The Ranger wrote: > > [snip] > >>>>It's not a living wage. whats the point of >>>>paying people at all if they can't live on >>>>what you pay them? >>>> >>> >>>That is _not_ the employer's problem. There are >>>alternatives available, whether _you_ like them >>>or not. >>> >> >>Well, golly you're right, then it must be the employees' >>problem. > > > It often is... > > >>So the way to get better wages in this job, as >>you say, is up to them. They could do something >>like, oh [unionize]. > > > That's one method used to improving work conditions, or pay, or > benefits. It is a choice made by the employees, though. > > The Ranger I'm glad to see that you support the idea of workers' unions. |
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The Ranger wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:45:38 +0200, Ellie C > > wrote: > >>The Ranger wrote: > > [snip] > >>>>It's not a living wage. whats the point of >>>>paying people at all if they can't live on >>>>what you pay them? >>>> >>> >>>That is _not_ the employer's problem. There are >>>alternatives available, whether _you_ like them >>>or not. >>> >> >>Well, golly you're right, then it must be the employees' >>problem. > > > It often is... > > >>So the way to get better wages in this job, as >>you say, is up to them. They could do something >>like, oh [unionize]. > > > That's one method used to improving work conditions, or pay, or > benefits. It is a choice made by the employees, though. > > The Ranger I'm glad to see that you support the idea of workers' unions. |
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Goomba38 wrote:
> Ellie C wrote: > >> Well, golly you're right, then it must be the employees' problem. So >> the way to get better wages in this job, as you say, is up to them. >> They could do something like, oh let's say band together and decide >> not to work unless they got better pay. They could form a group and >> bargain with the company. You're a genius! > > > so when they get paid more, the prices of those hamburgers go up to > support the increased cost of doing business. People don't want to pay > more for a hamburger, so they stop eating there as often. Boss then has > to lay off better paid waitress. I dunno....it seems it could be a > vicious circle? > I have an idea. How about the employees put out cups for tips? |
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Goomba38 wrote:
> Ellie C wrote: > >> Well, golly you're right, then it must be the employees' problem. So >> the way to get better wages in this job, as you say, is up to them. >> They could do something like, oh let's say band together and decide >> not to work unless they got better pay. They could form a group and >> bargain with the company. You're a genius! > > > so when they get paid more, the prices of those hamburgers go up to > support the increased cost of doing business. People don't want to pay > more for a hamburger, so they stop eating there as often. Boss then has > to lay off better paid waitress. I dunno....it seems it could be a > vicious circle? > I have an idea. How about the employees put out cups for tips? |
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"Dave Smith" > wrote in message > > Not in this part of Canada. Ontario has just introduced the possibility > that it might > allow customers to bring their own wine. Many reatauranteurs are objecting > to the > proposal because they figure that they will lose on the deal. They make a > lot of profit > off wine sales. Most of the places in the US that allow a customer to bring wine have no license to sell it. That allows the customer to enjoy a glass of wine with dinner instead of going across the street. I don't think the restaurants on either side of the border want to allow a customer to bring his own if they are selling the stuff. That is akin to going to a restaurant, ordering a soda and then unpacking a picnic lunch on their table. I don't have a problem with reasonable corkage fees. They are providing glasses, the labor to wash them, etc. Funny how people complain about the markup on a bottle of wine, but not the food. What does an order of two eggs and toast sell for? Much more than the 25˘ in materials. |
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"Dave Smith" > wrote in message > > Not in this part of Canada. Ontario has just introduced the possibility > that it might > allow customers to bring their own wine. Many reatauranteurs are objecting > to the > proposal because they figure that they will lose on the deal. They make a > lot of profit > off wine sales. Most of the places in the US that allow a customer to bring wine have no license to sell it. That allows the customer to enjoy a glass of wine with dinner instead of going across the street. I don't think the restaurants on either side of the border want to allow a customer to bring his own if they are selling the stuff. That is akin to going to a restaurant, ordering a soda and then unpacking a picnic lunch on their table. I don't have a problem with reasonable corkage fees. They are providing glasses, the labor to wash them, etc. Funny how people complain about the markup on a bottle of wine, but not the food. What does an order of two eggs and toast sell for? Much more than the 25˘ in materials. |
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As usual, Peter Aitken > stamped his feet and
waved his arms about in an infantile manner while whining: [snipped] "Decent wages at low-end jobs are not a choice" Those low-end jobs, with below-poverty pay, are forced upon people? The things you learn on Usenet. ObJustforPeter: FOAD. I knew you couldn't use a filter to save your life. You're simply pathetic. The Ranger |
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As usual, Peter Aitken > stamped his feet and
waved his arms about in an infantile manner while whining: [snipped] "Decent wages at low-end jobs are not a choice" Those low-end jobs, with below-poverty pay, are forced upon people? The things you learn on Usenet. ObJustforPeter: FOAD. I knew you couldn't use a filter to save your life. You're simply pathetic. The Ranger |
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"Ellie C" > wrote in message > I'm glad to see that you support the idea of workers' unions. We should support unions. Otherwise, the union leaders would have to get jobs and really work for a living. |
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"Ellie C" > wrote in message > I'm glad to see that you support the idea of workers' unions. We should support unions. Otherwise, the union leaders would have to get jobs and really work for a living. |
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Edwin wrote (10/17/2004):
<snip> >I don't have a problem with reasonable corkage fees. They are >providing glasses, the labor to wash them, etc. Funny how people >complain about the markup on a bottle of wine, but not the food. >What does an order of two eggs and toast sell for? Much more than >the 25˘ in materials. What would you consider a reasonable corkage fee to be? On the markup, I often hear people say something like "the food on my plate cost them $1 and they charge me $10 for it." Well, they provide the dishes, tableware, labor and are paying payroll, rent, taxes, insurance, utilities, etc. These are often people who are involved in businesses which do the same thing. |
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Edwin wrote (10/17/2004):
<snip> >I don't have a problem with reasonable corkage fees. They are >providing glasses, the labor to wash them, etc. Funny how people >complain about the markup on a bottle of wine, but not the food. >What does an order of two eggs and toast sell for? Much more than >the 25˘ in materials. What would you consider a reasonable corkage fee to be? On the markup, I often hear people say something like "the food on my plate cost them $1 and they charge me $10 for it." Well, they provide the dishes, tableware, labor and are paying payroll, rent, taxes, insurance, utilities, etc. These are often people who are involved in businesses which do the same thing. |
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"sf" wrote:
>> "pennyaline" wrote: >> >> Wait a minute. Whoa up. Is that a fair analogy? When I call my ISP, no one >> answers the phone >> >> <and the cable, gas and electric companies refer callers to their websites!> > > I am truly sorry for you. My ISP still answers the phone as > does my cable, gas and electric companies. Well okay!! You've provided a highly unnecessary response to the joke! Now how about addressing the rest of my post... you know, where I have trouble understanding how your defense works? |
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"sf" wrote:
>> "pennyaline" wrote: >> >> Wait a minute. Whoa up. Is that a fair analogy? When I call my ISP, no one >> answers the phone >> >> <and the cable, gas and electric companies refer callers to their websites!> > > I am truly sorry for you. My ISP still answers the phone as > does my cable, gas and electric companies. Well okay!! You've provided a highly unnecessary response to the joke! Now how about addressing the rest of my post... you know, where I have trouble understanding how your defense works? |
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| Thread | Forum | |||
| Tipping at the bar | Beer | |||
| Tipping my be out???? | Wine | |||
| Tipping - was Tipping on Wine | Wine | |||
| Tipping | General Cooking | |||
| ? about tipping | General Cooking | |||
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