That was the big sign up at Dunkin Donuts this morning. I was shocked.
The tip cups are gone. It's about time.

Jessica

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:07:20 -0400, "Jessica V." >
arranged random neurons, so they looked like this:

>
>That was the big sign up at Dunkin Donuts this morning. I was shocked.
> The tip cups are gone. It's about time.
>
Never could figure out why you'd tip someone for performing their job
at what is essentially a fast food joint - this includes Starbucks,
Diedrich's, etc. - yet you wouldn't dream of a tip jar at, say,
McDonald's. Same degree of service, but do you see a tip jar at
McDonald's?

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

"Just what kind of jackassery do I have to put up with today?" Danae
in "Non Sequitur"

To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"

"Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:07:20 -0400, "Jessica V." >
> arranged random neurons, so they looked like this:
>
>>
>>That was the big sign up at Dunkin Donuts this morning. I was shocked.
>> The tip cups are gone. It's about time.
>>
> Never could figure out why you'd tip someone for performing their job
> at what is essentially a fast food joint - this includes Starbucks,
> Diedrich's, etc. - yet you wouldn't dream of a tip jar at, say,
> McDonald's. Same degree of service, but do you see a tip jar at
> McDonald's?

They have one at A & W, here. It always ticks me off since the counter
people there make about $7/hr.

Gabby

"Gabby" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:07:20 -0400, "Jessica V." >
>> arranged random neurons, so they looked like this:
>>
>>>
>>>That was the big sign up at Dunkin Donuts this morning. I was shocked.
>>> The tip cups are gone. It's about time.
>>>
>> Never could figure out why you'd tip someone for performing their job
>> at what is essentially a fast food joint - this includes Starbucks,
>> Diedrich's, etc. - yet you wouldn't dream of a tip jar at, say,
>> McDonald's. Same degree of service, but do you see a tip jar at
>> McDonald's?
>
> They have one at A & W, here. It always ticks me off since the counter
> people there make about $7/hr.
>
> Gabby
>

Wow, $7 an hour.

Jack Wage

"Jack Schidt®" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Gabby" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:07:20 -0400, "Jessica V." >
> >> arranged random neurons, so they looked like this:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>That was the big sign up at Dunkin Donuts this morning. I was shocked.
> >>> The tip cups are gone. It's about time.
> >>>
> >> Never could figure out why you'd tip someone for performing their job
> >> at what is essentially a fast food joint - this includes Starbucks,
> >> Diedrich's, etc. - yet you wouldn't dream of a tip jar at, say,
> >> McDonald's. Same degree of service, but do you see a tip jar at
> >> McDonald's?
> >
> > They have one at A & W, here. It always ticks me off since the counter
> > people there make about $7/hr.
> >
> > Gabby
> >
>
> Wow, $7 an hour.
>
> Jack Wage
>

Pitiful, yes, but it's still not the customer's job to supplement it. And I
bet McD's would have a tip jar if managment allowed it!


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:11:07 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> wrote:

> Pitiful, yes, but it's still not the customer's job to supplement it. And I
> bet McD's would have a tip jar if managment allowed it!

I bet dollars to doughnuts that management encourages this
practice (nah, I bet they originated the idea). Do you
really think that a tip cup would be on the counter if the
highest levels of corporate management didn't condone it????

sf
Practice safe eating - always use condiments

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:11:07 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> wrote:

> Pitiful, yes, but it's still not the customer's job to supplement it. And I
> bet McD's would have a tip jar if managment allowed it!

I bet dollars to doughnuts that management encourages this
practice (nah, I bet they originated the idea). Do you
really think that a tip cup would be on the counter if the
highest levels of corporate management didn't condone it????

sf
Practice safe eating - always use condiments

"Jack Schidt®" > wrote in
m:

>
> "Gabby" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:07:20 -0400, "Jessica V." >
>>> arranged random neurons, so they looked like this:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>That was the big sign up at Dunkin Donuts this morning. I was
>>>>shocked.
>>>> The tip cups are gone. It's about time.
>>>>
>>> Never could figure out why you'd tip someone for performing their
>>> job at what is essentially a fast food joint - this includes
>>> Starbucks, Diedrich's, etc. - yet you wouldn't dream of a tip jar
>>> at, say, McDonald's. Same degree of service, but do you see a tip
>>> jar at McDonald's?
>>
>> They have one at A & W, here. It always ticks me off since the
>> counter people there make about $7/hr.
>>
>> Gabby
>>
>
> Wow, $7 an hour.
>
> Jack Wage

They chose to work there. There are many clerking positions where
tipping is neither expected nor hoped for, and which pay no more than
that. Why should this be any different? I recently stopped for gas at
a station I'd never been to before. A tip jar was prominently
displayed. Even if I bought more than gas, I would dispense my own pop,
pick up merchandise from shelves, and pay the cashier. They deserve a
tip for this? Zeesh!

--
It's me, Baker!

When the Chips are Down,
the Buffalo is Empty.

"baker" > wrote in message
...
> "Jack Schidt®" > wrote in
> m:
>
>>
>> "Gabby" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:07:20 -0400, "Jessica V." >
>>>> arranged random neurons, so they looked like this:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>That was the big sign up at Dunkin Donuts this morning. I was
>>>>>shocked.
>>>>> The tip cups are gone. It's about time.
>>>>>
>>>> Never could figure out why you'd tip someone for performing their
>>>> job at what is essentially a fast food joint - this includes
>>>> Starbucks, Diedrich's, etc. - yet you wouldn't dream of a tip jar
>>>> at, say, McDonald's. Same degree of service, but do you see a tip
>>>> jar at McDonald's?
>>>
>>> They have one at A & W, here. It always ticks me off since the
>>> counter people there make about $7/hr.
>>>
>>> Gabby
>>>
>>
>> Wow, $7 an hour.
>>
>> Jack Wage
>
> They chose to work there. There are many clerking positions where
> tipping is neither expected nor hoped for, and which pay no more than
> that. Why should this be any different? I recently stopped for gas at
> a station I'd never been to before. A tip jar was prominently
> displayed. Even if I bought more than gas, I would dispense my own pop,
> pick up merchandise from shelves, and pay the cashier. They deserve a
> tip for this? Zeesh!
>

My remark wasn't in support of tipping a counterperson but rather a response
to the way $7 an hour was presented as a kingly sum of money.

My counterperson tipping policy is as follows: if I feel a physical
attraction, I tip.

Jack Shallow

baker wrote:

> "Jack Schidt®" > wrote in
> m:
>
>
>>"Gabby" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>"Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:07:20 -0400, "Jessica V." >
>>>>arranged random neurons, so they looked like this:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>That was the big sign up at Dunkin Donuts this morning. I was
>>>>>shocked.
>>>>> The tip cups are gone. It's about time.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Never could figure out why you'd tip someone for performing their
>>>>job at what is essentially a fast food joint - this includes
>>>>Starbucks, Diedrich's, etc. - yet you wouldn't dream of a tip jar
>>>>at, say, McDonald's. Same degree of service, but do you see a tip
>>>>jar at McDonald's?
>>>
>>>They have one at A & W, here. It always ticks me off since the
>>>counter people there make about $7/hr.
>>>
>>>Gabby
>>>
>>
>>Wow, $7 an hour.
>>
>>Jack Wage
>
>
> They chose to work there. There are many clerking positions where
> tipping is neither expected nor hoped for, and which pay no more than
> that. Why should this be any different? I recently stopped for gas at
> a station I'd never been to before. A tip jar was prominently
> displayed. Even if I bought more than gas, I would dispense my own pop,
> pick up merchandise from shelves, and pay the cashier. They deserve a
> tip for this? Zeesh!
>
Gee, with tip cups showing up all over could it possibly be a symptom of
the fact that people need to make more than $7 per hour? THat's a fine
wage if you're a high school kid but there's lots of folks who have
these jobs as their full time work. Could you live on $7 per hour?

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:13:20 GMT, baker >
wrote:

> They chose to work there.

Said like a holier than thou person with job choice.


sf
Practice safe eating - always use condiments

baker wrote:

> "Jack Schidt®" > wrote in
> m:
>
>
>>"Gabby" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>"Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:07:20 -0400, "Jessica V." >
>>>>arranged random neurons, so they looked like this:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>That was the big sign up at Dunkin Donuts this morning. I was
>>>>>shocked.
>>>>> The tip cups are gone. It's about time.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Never could figure out why you'd tip someone for performing their
>>>>job at what is essentially a fast food joint - this includes
>>>>Starbucks, Diedrich's, etc. - yet you wouldn't dream of a tip jar
>>>>at, say, McDonald's. Same degree of service, but do you see a tip
>>>>jar at McDonald's?
>>>
>>>They have one at A & W, here. It always ticks me off since the
>>>counter people there make about $7/hr.
>>>
>>>Gabby
>>>
>>
>>Wow, $7 an hour.
>>
>>Jack Wage
>
>
> They chose to work there. There are many clerking positions where
> tipping is neither expected nor hoped for, and which pay no more than
> that. Why should this be any different? I recently stopped for gas at
> a station I'd never been to before. A tip jar was prominently
> displayed. Even if I bought more than gas, I would dispense my own pop,
> pick up merchandise from shelves, and pay the cashier. They deserve a
> tip for this? Zeesh!
>
Gee, with tip cups showing up all over could it possibly be a symptom of
the fact that people need to make more than $7 per hour? THat's a fine
wage if you're a high school kid but there's lots of folks who have
these jobs as their full time work. Could you live on $7 per hour?

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:13:20 GMT, baker >
wrote:

> They chose to work there.

Said like a holier than thou person with job choice.


sf
Practice safe eating - always use condiments

Jack Schidt® wrote:
> "Gabby" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>>On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:07:20 -0400, "Jessica V." >
>>>arranged random neurons, so they looked like this:
>>>
>>>
>>>>That was the big sign up at Dunkin Donuts this morning. I was shocked.
>>>> The tip cups are gone. It's about time.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Never could figure out why you'd tip someone for performing their job
>>>at what is essentially a fast food joint - this includes Starbucks,
>>>Diedrich's, etc. - yet you wouldn't dream of a tip jar at, say,
>>>McDonald's. Same degree of service, but do you see a tip jar at
>>>McDonald's?
>>
>>They have one at A & W, here. It always ticks me off since the counter
>>people there make about $7/hr.
>>
>>Gabby
>>
>
>
> Wow, $7 an hour.
>
> Jack Wage
>
>
Dunks pays $9.50 here to start for counter people. A friend manages one
of the franchise stores and makes over 50k a year. The location I was at
with the sign has an adult manager and assistant, all of the other
employees I've seen there are students (which I only know because I work
at the college). Sure as hell beats waiting tables in the off season in
Maine.

Jessica

In article >,
"Jessica V." > wrote:

> Jack Schidt® wrote:
> > "Gabby" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>"Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >>
> >>>On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:07:20 -0400, "Jessica V." >
> >>>arranged random neurons, so they looked like this:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>That was the big sign up at Dunkin Donuts this morning. I was shocked.
> >>>> The tip cups are gone. It's about time.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Never could figure out why you'd tip someone for performing their job
> >>>at what is essentially a fast food joint - this includes Starbucks,
> >>>Diedrich's, etc. - yet you wouldn't dream of a tip jar at, say,
> >>>McDonald's. Same degree of service, but do you see a tip jar at
> >>>McDonald's?
> >>
> >>They have one at A & W, here. It always ticks me off since the counter
> >>people there make about $7/hr.
> >>
> >>Gabby
> >>
> >
> >
> > Wow, $7 an hour.
> >
> > Jack Wage
> >
> >
> Dunks pays $9.50 here to start for counter people. A friend manages one
> of the franchise stores and makes over 50k a year. The location I was at
> with the sign has an adult manager and assistant, all of the other
> employees I've seen there are students (which I only know because I work
> at the college). Sure as hell beats waiting tables in the off season in
> Maine.
>
> Jessica

I know some waitresses that make nearly what I do due to tips. ;-)
They are cute and personable and flirt with the customers.

Almost as bad as prostitution?????

Scary.

Om
--
"See, the problem is that God gives men a brain and a penis, and only
enough blood to run one at a time." -Robin Williams

In article >,
"Jessica V." > wrote:

> Jack Schidt® wrote:
> > "Gabby" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>"Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >>
> >>>On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:07:20 -0400, "Jessica V." >
> >>>arranged random neurons, so they looked like this:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>That was the big sign up at Dunkin Donuts this morning. I was shocked.
> >>>> The tip cups are gone. It's about time.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Never could figure out why you'd tip someone for performing their job
> >>>at what is essentially a fast food joint - this includes Starbucks,
> >>>Diedrich's, etc. - yet you wouldn't dream of a tip jar at, say,
> >>>McDonald's. Same degree of service, but do you see a tip jar at
> >>>McDonald's?
> >>
> >>They have one at A & W, here. It always ticks me off since the counter
> >>people there make about $7/hr.
> >>
> >>Gabby
> >>
> >
> >
> > Wow, $7 an hour.
> >
> > Jack Wage
> >
> >
> Dunks pays $9.50 here to start for counter people. A friend manages one
> of the franchise stores and makes over 50k a year. The location I was at
> with the sign has an adult manager and assistant, all of the other
> employees I've seen there are students (which I only know because I work
> at the college). Sure as hell beats waiting tables in the off season in
> Maine.
>
> Jessica

I know some waitresses that make nearly what I do due to tips. ;-)
They are cute and personable and flirt with the customers.

Almost as bad as prostitution?????

Scary.

Om
--
"See, the problem is that God gives men a brain and a penis, and only
enough blood to run one at a time." -Robin Williams

Jack Schidt® wrote:
> "Gabby" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>>On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:07:20 -0400, "Jessica V." >
>>>arranged random neurons, so they looked like this:
>>>
>>>
>>>>That was the big sign up at Dunkin Donuts this morning. I was shocked.
>>>> The tip cups are gone. It's about time.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Never could figure out why you'd tip someone for performing their job
>>>at what is essentially a fast food joint - this includes Starbucks,
>>>Diedrich's, etc. - yet you wouldn't dream of a tip jar at, say,
>>>McDonald's. Same degree of service, but do you see a tip jar at
>>>McDonald's?
>>
>>They have one at A & W, here. It always ticks me off since the counter
>>people there make about $7/hr.
>>
>>Gabby
>>
>
>
> Wow, $7 an hour.
>
> Jack Wage
>
>
Dunks pays $9.50 here to start for counter people. A friend manages one
of the franchise stores and makes over 50k a year. The location I was at
with the sign has an adult manager and assistant, all of the other
employees I've seen there are students (which I only know because I work
at the college). Sure as hell beats waiting tables in the off season in
Maine.

Jessica

"Jack Schidt®" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Gabby" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:07:20 -0400, "Jessica V." >
> >> arranged random neurons, so they looked like this:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>That was the big sign up at Dunkin Donuts this morning. I was shocked.
> >>> The tip cups are gone. It's about time.
> >>>
> >> Never could figure out why you'd tip someone for performing their job
> >> at what is essentially a fast food joint - this includes Starbucks,
> >> Diedrich's, etc. - yet you wouldn't dream of a tip jar at, say,
> >> McDonald's. Same degree of service, but do you see a tip jar at
> >> McDonald's?
> >
> > They have one at A & W, here. It always ticks me off since the counter
> > people there make about $7/hr.
> >
> > Gabby
> >
>
> Wow, $7 an hour.
>
> Jack Wage
>

Pitiful, yes, but it's still not the customer's job to supplement it. And I
bet McD's would have a tip jar if managment allowed it!


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Jack Schidt®" > wrote in
m:

>
> "Gabby" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:07:20 -0400, "Jessica V." >
>>> arranged random neurons, so they looked like this:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>That was the big sign up at Dunkin Donuts this morning. I was
>>>>shocked.
>>>> The tip cups are gone. It's about time.
>>>>
>>> Never could figure out why you'd tip someone for performing their
>>> job at what is essentially a fast food joint - this includes
>>> Starbucks, Diedrich's, etc. - yet you wouldn't dream of a tip jar
>>> at, say, McDonald's. Same degree of service, but do you see a tip
>>> jar at McDonald's?
>>
>> They have one at A & W, here. It always ticks me off since the
>> counter people there make about $7/hr.
>>
>> Gabby
>>
>
> Wow, $7 an hour.
>
> Jack Wage

They chose to work there. There are many clerking positions where
tipping is neither expected nor hoped for, and which pay no more than
that. Why should this be any different? I recently stopped for gas at
a station I'd never been to before. A tip jar was prominently
displayed. Even if I bought more than gas, I would dispense my own pop,
pick up merchandise from shelves, and pay the cashier. They deserve a
tip for this? Zeesh!

--
It's me, Baker!

When the Chips are Down,
the Buffalo is Empty.

Gabby wrote in message >...
>
>"Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:07:20 -0400, "Jessica V." >
>> arranged random neurons, so they looked like this:
>>
>>>
>>>That was the big sign up at Dunkin Donuts this morning. I was shocked.
>>> The tip cups are gone. It's about time.
>>>
>> Never could figure out why you'd tip someone for performing their job
>> at what is essentially a fast food joint - this includes Starbucks,
>> Diedrich's, etc. - yet you wouldn't dream of a tip jar at, say,
>> McDonald's. Same degree of service, but do you see a tip jar at
>> McDonald's?
>
>They have one at A & W, here. It always ticks me off since the counter
>people there make about $7/hr.

yeah, because thats a real cushiony income.

--
saerah

TANSTAAFL

Short summary of every Jewish holiday: They tried to kill us, we won,
let's eat.

"Saerah" says:
>
>>Gabby wrote:
>>>"Terry Pulliam Burd" wrote:
>>>>"Jessica V." wrote:
>>>>
>>>>That was the big sign up at Dunkin Donuts this morning. I was shocked.
>>>> The tip cups are gone. It's about time.
>>>>
>>> Never could figure out why you'd tip someone for performing their job
>>> at what is essentially a fast food joint - this includes Starbucks,
>>> Diedrich's, etc. - yet you wouldn't dream of a tip jar at, say,
>>> McDonald's. Same degree of service, but do you see a tip jar at
>>> McDonald's?
>>
>>They have one at A & W, here. It always ticks me off since the counter
>>people there make about $7/hr.
>
>yeah, because thats a real cushiony income.

Hey, no reason to get all uppity with envy just 'cause they're paid so much
more than you.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

When not buying a used car the other day at a dealership, Jim and I had
negotiated the price, discussed what repairs would be done to the car,
gone over the car facts printout, and sat down to sign the contract. At
that point, we learned that we were expected to pay $118 extra to cover
the dealership's salesman's work in doing the paperwork in turning over
the title. It sure sounded like a mandatory tip to the cashier for
ringing up the sale, bagging the merchandise and handing me a receipt.
That should be part of the price of the product! I realize that's the
way things are done and everyone pays it. I balked. We're still in the
market for a used car.


--Lia

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:40:47 GMT, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

>When not buying a used car the other day at a dealership, Jim and I had
>negotiated the price, discussed what repairs would be done to the car,
>gone over the car facts printout, and sat down to sign the contract. At
>that point, we learned that we were expected to pay $118 extra to cover
>the dealership's salesman's work in doing the paperwork in turning over
>the title. It sure sounded like a mandatory tip to the cashier for
>ringing up the sale, bagging the merchandise and handing me a receipt.
>That should be part of the price of the product! I realize that's the
>way things are done and everyone pays it. I balked. We're still in the
>market for a used car.
>
>
>--Lia


That is a pretty common charge on new car sales here in northern NJ
and encompasses registering the vehicle and getting new plates, if
required.

Boron

Boron Elgar wrote:

> That is a pretty common charge on new car sales here in northern NJ
> and encompasses registering the vehicle and getting new plates, if
> required.


It is common here in New England too. The safety inspection costs
around $30. We can put the plates from the old car on the new one so
that costs nothing. I'm sure there is a lot of paperwork and hassle
involved with transferring the title, but look at it another way. Say
you were buying several largish shrubs to plant in your garden and had
brought your own truck to haul them home in. They're heavy, but you can
lift them yourself if you take them one at a time. They're labeled as
costing $30 each. You get to the register to pay, but there's an extra
$5 charge for each one. You question it. The salesperson explains "we
had to water the shrubs while they were here in the store, and they need
special storage where they can get sun. Also, the staff who takes care
of shrubbery before it is sold has to get special training, and there's
a truck that delivers the plants to us. All that costs money. Five
dollars is a bargain." Well maybe it is, but why aren't they labeled as
costing $35 in the first place?


--Lia

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:41:22 GMT, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

>Boron Elgar wrote:
>
>> That is a pretty common charge on new car sales here in northern NJ
>> and encompasses registering the vehicle and getting new plates, if
>> required.
>
>
>It is common here in New England too. The safety inspection costs
>around $30. We can put the plates from the old car on the new one so
>that costs nothing. I'm sure there is a lot of paperwork and hassle
>involved with transferring the title, but look at it another way. Say
>you were buying several largish shrubs to plant in your garden and had
>brought your own truck to haul them home in. They're heavy, but you can
>lift them yourself if you take them one at a time. They're labeled as
>costing $30 each. You get to the register to pay, but there's an extra
>$5 charge for each one. You question it. The salesperson explains "we
>had to water the shrubs while they were here in the store, and they need
>special storage where they can get sun. Also, the staff who takes care
>of shrubbery before it is sold has to get special training, and there's
>a truck that delivers the plants to us. All that costs money. Five
>dollars is a bargain." Well maybe it is, but why aren't they labeled as
>costing $35 in the first place?
>
>
>--Lia


The paperwork fee is pre-printed on the invoices around here...you
negotiate around it, not about it. You get your savings elsewhere,
knowing about the fees ahead of time. I know there are fixed charges,
such as "dealer prep" and the like and so I base my negotiating price
knowing those things are in there. I consider them part of the "asking
price" and negotiate down from there.

You seemed to have mastered the one thing to know about buying a car -
be prepared to walk if you do not like the deal. Again, anything is
negotiable...they bottom line is the bottom line...whether they reduce
or eliminate the paperwork fee or charge for filling the tank or lower
the offering for your trade-in, it doesn't matter...you want to get to
the final costs.

It is no more nor no less a legitimate fee than the itemization
billing that hospitals do, so that a dose of Tylenol runs 4-6 dollars
on the invoice. As a patient, you have less chance of negotiating
that...it is their way of getting around the insurance companies and
unless you are paying cash, you can be SOL with hospital charges.

I went through the same sort of BS trying to get a new cell phone the
other day. Same sort of post purchases fees that got tacked on and a
hideous attempt to "up-sell" with accessories, too. It was the same
high pressure tactics as buying a car. Having purchased 2 new cars in
15 months, the similarities were quite striking to me.

Just to bring the topic back to food...always go car shopping on a
full stomach, as you may be there awhile. Besides, car sale techniques
are liable to make you lose your appetite.

Boron

Lia wrote on 10/13/2004:

<snip>

All that costs money. Five dollars is a bargain." Well maybe
>it is, but why aren't they labeled as costing $35 in the first place?

I recall the first time I noticed an "up" charge itemized on a
restaurant bill for a martini served "up". It was $2 or $3. I
asked the waiter about it because I had not seen that before.
He explained - in a rather surly way - that they started doing
that because you get more booze when the drink is served
"up". So, I say, why don't you just include it in the price of
the drink and skip the separate line item. I don't remember
what he said to that, just that it was also a surly answer.

So, I made a corresponding adjustment to his tip. This
restaurant has long since abandoned this practice.

Lia wrote on 10/13/2004:

<snip>

All that costs money. Five dollars is a bargain." Well maybe
>it is, but why aren't they labeled as costing $35 in the first place?

I recall the first time I noticed an "up" charge itemized on a
restaurant bill for a martini served "up". It was $2 or $3. I
asked the waiter about it because I had not seen that before.
He explained - in a rather surly way - that they started doing
that because you get more booze when the drink is served
"up". So, I say, why don't you just include it in the price of
the drink and skip the separate line item. I don't remember
what he said to that, just that it was also a surly answer.

So, I made a corresponding adjustment to his tip. This
restaurant has long since abandoned this practice.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:27:05 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

> That is a pretty common charge on new car sales here in northern NJ
> and encompasses registering the vehicle and getting new plates, if
> required.

A good negotiator doesn't pay for that.

sf
Practice safe eating - always use condiments

In article <zfabd.250849$3l3.198120@attbi_s03>, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

> When not buying a used car the other day at a dealership, Jim and I had
> negotiated the price, discussed what repairs would be done to the car,
> gone over the car facts printout, and sat down to sign the contract. At
> that point, we learned that we were expected to pay $118 extra to cover
> the dealership's salesman's work in doing the paperwork in turning over
> the title. It sure sounded like a mandatory tip to the cashier for
> ringing up the sale, bagging the merchandise and handing me a receipt.
> That should be part of the price of the product! I realize that's the
> way things are done and everyone pays it. I balked. We're still in the
> market for a used car.

> --Lia

Trying to screw you without a kiss. Good for you, Lia. My car repair
place wanted to charge me for some hazardous waste or material disposal
charge for something once. Maybe $4. I questioned it because whatever
they did didn't require disposal of anything and I didn't figure I
should be charged for it. They didn't charge me.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 10-09-04; Sam I Am!.
"Peace will come when the power of love overcomes the love of power."
-Jimi Hendrix, and Lt. Joe Corcoran, Retired; St. Paul PD, Homicide Divn.

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> Trying to screw you without a kiss. Good for you, Lia. My car repair
> place wanted to charge me for some hazardous waste or material disposal
> charge for something once. Maybe $4. I questioned it because whatever
> they did didn't require disposal of anything and I didn't figure I
> should be charged for it. They didn't charge me.


Thanks for the note of support. The truth is that we talked for the
rest of the night about whether or not I did the right thing. This is a
case of non-buyer's remorse. I know that ALL the used car dealers do
this. I'm asking myself how I would feel about it if they'd told us up
front that there would be this extra fee. Would I have minded then? In
a restaurant, I know I'm expected to tip, and I always do. What if I
thought of this as a tip that everyone else knows is expected? The
bottom line is that we're not sure we wanted this car anyway. At least,
that's what I'm telling myself.


--Lia

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:57:38 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

> Trying to screw you without a kiss.

good one!


sf
Practice safe eating - always use condiments

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:57:38 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

> Trying to screw you without a kiss.

good one!


sf
Practice safe eating - always use condiments

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> When not buying a used car the other day at a dealership, Jim and I had
> negotiated the price, discussed what repairs would be done to the car,
> gone over the car facts printout, and sat down to sign the contract. At
> that point, we learned that we were expected to pay $118 extra to cover
> the dealership's salesman's work in doing the paperwork in turning over
> the title. It sure sounded like a mandatory tip to the cashier for
> ringing up the sale, bagging the merchandise and handing me a receipt.
> That should be part of the price of the product! I realize that's the
> way things are done and everyone pays it. I balked. We're still in the
> market for a used car.

My neighbour's brother in law is a car salesman and one night after a few
drinks admitted that the "administration fee" is just another way of soaking
more money out of the customer. Around here they generally charge $75
"administration fee" to look after the transaction. I am in the market for
a new car and plan not to get sucked into that. All businesses have
paperwork they have to complete for a sale and I do not plan to pay extra
for that, and I will go to the licence bureau myself to pay the $10 fee for
transferring my plate to the new car.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:55:15 -0400, Dave Smith wrote:

>
> Julia Altshuler wrote:
>
>> When not buying a used car the other day at a dealership, Jim and I had
>> negotiated the price, discussed what repairs would be done to the car,
>> gone over the car facts printout, and sat down to sign the contract. At
>> that point, we learned that we were expected to pay $118 extra to cover
>> the dealership's salesman's work in doing the paperwork in turning over
>> the title. It sure sounded like a mandatory tip to the cashier for
>> ringing up the sale, bagging the merchandise and handing me a receipt.
>> That should be part of the price of the product! I realize that's the
>> way things are done and everyone pays it. I balked. We're still in the
>> market for a used car.
>
> My neighbour's brother in law is a car salesman and one night after a few
> drinks admitted that the "administration fee" is just another way of soaking
> more money out of the customer. Around here they generally charge $75
> "administration fee" to look after the transaction. I am in the market for
> a new car and plan not to get sucked into that. All businesses have
> paperwork they have to complete for a sale and I do not plan to pay extra
> for that, and I will go to the licence bureau myself to pay the $10 fee for
> transferring my plate to the new car.

I don't mind feeding somebody's kids for a day but I'll be
dammed if my broke ass is gonna buy some punk a weekend in
Reno! Nowadays it seems like everthing is full of scams and
tricks designed to pick your pocket. Better to do without!
Stuff wears out etc. but cash is always your friend.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:55:15 -0400, Dave Smith wrote:

>
> Julia Altshuler wrote:
>
>> When not buying a used car the other day at a dealership, Jim and I had
>> negotiated the price, discussed what repairs would be done to the car,
>> gone over the car facts printout, and sat down to sign the contract. At
>> that point, we learned that we were expected to pay $118 extra to cover
>> the dealership's salesman's work in doing the paperwork in turning over
>> the title. It sure sounded like a mandatory tip to the cashier for
>> ringing up the sale, bagging the merchandise and handing me a receipt.
>> That should be part of the price of the product! I realize that's the
>> way things are done and everyone pays it. I balked. We're still in the
>> market for a used car.
>
> My neighbour's brother in law is a car salesman and one night after a few
> drinks admitted that the "administration fee" is just another way of soaking
> more money out of the customer. Around here they generally charge $75
> "administration fee" to look after the transaction. I am in the market for
> a new car and plan not to get sucked into that. All businesses have
> paperwork they have to complete for a sale and I do not plan to pay extra
> for that, and I will go to the licence bureau myself to pay the $10 fee for
> transferring my plate to the new car.

I don't mind feeding somebody's kids for a day but I'll be
dammed if my broke ass is gonna buy some punk a weekend in
Reno! Nowadays it seems like everthing is full of scams and
tricks designed to pick your pocket. Better to do without!
Stuff wears out etc. but cash is always your friend.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:40:47 GMT, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

> We're still in the
> market for a used car.

Try Craig's list.

sf
Practice safe eating - always use condiments

sf wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:40:47 GMT, Julia Altshuler
> > wrote:
>
>
>> We're still in the
>> market for a used car.
>
>
> Try Craig's list.


Thanks, I'll check in out. The funny thing is that we can afford to
drag our feet. My job is walking distance from home (a healthy 40-50
minute walk as exercise). Jim works from home. We can manage with one
car as long as the weather stays this nice.

--Lia

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:00:26 GMT, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

> We can manage with one car as long as the weather stays this nice.

We're a one car family too (which is fine because our 1926
house has a one car garage). I live 15 minutes from work by
car, but my husband actually volunteered to be my chauffer
because, like your husband, he works from home. He figured
that the inconvenience of driving me was worth the $$$
savings on depreciation (we lease new cars), insurance, gas
and all the parking tickets I'd accrue on a monthly basis.





sf
Practice safe eating - always use condiments

In article <zfabd.250849$3l3.198120@attbi_s03>, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

> When not buying a used car the other day at a dealership, Jim and I had
> negotiated the price, discussed what repairs would be done to the car,
> gone over the car facts printout, and sat down to sign the contract. At
> that point, we learned that we were expected to pay $118 extra to cover
> the dealership's salesman's work in doing the paperwork in turning over
> the title. It sure sounded like a mandatory tip to the cashier for
> ringing up the sale, bagging the merchandise and handing me a receipt.
> That should be part of the price of the product! I realize that's the
> way things are done and everyone pays it. I balked. We're still in the
> market for a used car.

> --Lia

Trying to screw you without a kiss. Good for you, Lia. My car repair
place wanted to charge me for some hazardous waste or material disposal
charge for something once. Maybe $4. I questioned it because whatever
they did didn't require disposal of anything and I didn't figure I
should be charged for it. They didn't charge me.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 10-09-04; Sam I Am!.
"Peace will come when the power of love overcomes the love of power."
-Jimi Hendrix, and Lt. Joe Corcoran, Retired; St. Paul PD, Homicide Divn.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:40:47 GMT, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

>When not buying a used car the other day at a dealership, Jim and I had
>negotiated the price, discussed what repairs would be done to the car,
>gone over the car facts printout, and sat down to sign the contract. At
>that point, we learned that we were expected to pay $118 extra to cover
>the dealership's salesman's work in doing the paperwork in turning over
>the title. It sure sounded like a mandatory tip to the cashier for
>ringing up the sale, bagging the merchandise and handing me a receipt.
>That should be part of the price of the product! I realize that's the
>way things are done and everyone pays it. I balked. We're still in the
>market for a used car.
>
>
>--Lia


That is a pretty common charge on new car sales here in northern NJ
and encompasses registering the vehicle and getting new plates, if
required.

Boron