I've been trying some favorite baking recipes from my American cookbooks
but I'm now living in France and they don't come out right. Cakes come
out a bit heavy and leaden. I know that French flour is different from
American flour, and I wonder if there's some way to figure out how much
more (or less?) to use. I do have American baking powder, so it's not that.

I think French sugar is coarser than what I'm used to as well. I find it
takes a lot longer to cream butter and sugar if I use standard French
sugar.

"Ellie C" > wrote in message
...
> I've been trying some favorite baking recipes from my American cookbooks
> but I'm now living in France and they don't come out right. Cakes come out
> a bit heavy and leaden. I know that French flour is different from
> American flour, and I wonder if there's some way to figure out how much
> more (or less?) to use. I do have American baking powder, so it's not
> that.
>
> I think French sugar is coarser than what I'm used to as well. I find it
> takes a lot longer to cream butter and sugar if I use standard French
> sugar.
===========

Hmmmm... well, I'm not an expert nor do I play one on TV but my guess is
that the flour you are using is made with 'hard' wheat and what you're
needing (kneading! Ha!) is soft wheat. Unfortunately, I have no idea how or
where you would find what you.... WAIT a Minute... can you get "cake flour"?
That might fix your problems. Also, according to my B H & G New Cook Book -
you can substitute 1 cup Cake Flour with 1 cup of All-Purpose flour MINUS 2
Tablespoons. <shrug> Does that help?

Cyndi

Rick & Cyndi wrote:

> "Ellie C" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I've been trying some favorite baking recipes from my American cookbooks
>>but I'm now living in France and they don't come out right. Cakes come out
>>a bit heavy and leaden. I know that French flour is different from
>>American flour, and I wonder if there's some way to figure out how much
>>more (or less?) to use. I do have American baking powder, so it's not
>>that.
>>
>>I think French sugar is coarser than what I'm used to as well. I find it
>>takes a lot longer to cream butter and sugar if I use standard French
>>sugar.
>
> ===========
>
> Hmmmm... well, I'm not an expert nor do I play one on TV but my guess is
> that the flour you are using is made with 'hard' wheat and what you're
> needing (kneading! Ha!) is soft wheat. Unfortunately, I have no idea how or
> where you would find what you.... WAIT a Minute... can you get "cake flour"?
> That might fix your problems. Also, according to my B H & G New Cook Book -
> you can substitute 1 cup Cake Flour with 1 cup of All-Purpose flour MINUS 2
> Tablespoons. <shrug> Does that help?
>
> Cyndi
>
>
I don't know if there's such a thing as cake flour here; I'll have to
look more carefully next time I'm in a supermarket. But it sounds like
to substitute ordinary flour for cake flour I'd use less, where my gut
feeling is that I should use more. But - caveat - I'm nowhere near an
expert at making cakes!

Just Googled and found a site listing cake problems, but it's still a
bit hard to figure out. For instance "Coarse grain and sunken center"
could happen from too much flour or using ordinary flour instead of cake
flour, it says(well, it had a coarse grain but it was baked in a tube
pan, so less chance of a sunken center). But there's another description
"Dense grain", which it says is caused by too much liquid, which would
be even more pronounced if I used less flour. Hmmmm.... Also, this was a
cake with lots of ground fruit and nuts in it. Maybe I'll try making a
pound cake and see how that turns out.

Ellie C > wrote in
:

> Rick & Cyndi wrote:
>
>> "Ellie C" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>I've been trying some favorite baking recipes from my American
>>>cookbooks but I'm now living in France and they don't come out right.
>>>Cakes come out a bit heavy and leaden. I know that French flour is
>>>different from American flour, and I wonder if there's some way to
>>>figure out how much more (or less?) to use. I do have American baking
>>>powder, so it's not that.
>>>
>>>I think French sugar is coarser than what I'm used to as well. I find
>>>it takes a lot longer to cream butter and sugar if I use standard
>>>French sugar.
>>
>> ===========
>>
>> Hmmmm... well, I'm not an expert nor do I play one on TV but my guess
>> is that the flour you are using is made with 'hard' wheat and what
>> you're needing (kneading! Ha!) is soft wheat. Unfortunately, I have
>> no idea how or where you would find what you.... WAIT a Minute... can
>> you get "cake flour"? That might fix your problems. Also, according
>> to my B H & G New Cook Book - you can substitute 1 cup Cake Flour
>> with 1 cup of All-Purpose flour MINUS 2 Tablespoons. <shrug> Does
>> that help?
>>
>> Cyndi
>>
>>
> I don't know if there's such a thing as cake flour here; I'll have to
> look more carefully next time I'm in a supermarket. But it sounds like
> to substitute ordinary flour for cake flour I'd use less, where my gut
> feeling is that I should use more. But - caveat - I'm nowhere near an
> expert at making cakes!
>
> Just Googled and found a site listing cake problems, but it's still a
> bit hard to figure out. For instance "Coarse grain and sunken center"
> could happen from too much flour or using ordinary flour instead of
> cake flour, it says(well, it had a coarse grain but it was baked in a
> tube pan, so less chance of a sunken center). But there's another
> description "Dense grain", which it says is caused by too much liquid,
> which would be even more pronounced if I used less flour. Hmmmm....
> Also, this was a cake with lots of ground fruit and nuts in it. Maybe
> I'll try making a pound cake and see how that turns out.
>

The RFC FAQ has a whole mess of stuff to say about flour.

--
Starchless in Manitoba.

Ellie C > wrote in message >.. .
> I've been trying some favorite baking recipes from my American cookbooks
> but I'm now living in France and they don't come out right. Cakes come
> out a bit heavy and leaden. I know that French flour is different from
> American flour, and I wonder if there's some way to figure out how much
> more (or less?) to use. I do have American baking powder, so it's not that.
>
That is caused by untreated flour, with a higher protein content than
american cake flour.
I do not know what type of American baking powder you are using.
Is it the Calumet or Clabber girl? or Royal baking powder?
They are not the same.The best cakes are made with the former.
Most american recipes are sweet and used lots of liquids.
What particular recipe would you like to adjust?
Please post your reply of in rec. food.baking.
Roy

Ellie C > wrote in message >.. .
> I've been trying some favorite baking recipes from my American cookbooks
> but I'm now living in France and they don't come out right. Cakes come
> out a bit heavy and leaden. I know that French flour is different from
> American flour, and I wonder if there's some way to figure out how much
> more (or less?) to use. I do have American baking powder, so it's not that.
>
That is caused by untreated flour, with a higher protein content than
american cake flour.
I do not know what type of American baking powder you are using.
Is it the Calumet or Clabber girl? or Royal baking powder?
They are not the same.The best cakes are made with the former.
Most american recipes are sweet and used lots of liquids.
What particular recipe would you like to adjust?
Please post your reply of in rec. food.baking.
Roy

Mark Willstatter wrote:
> Ellie C > wrote in message >.. .
>
>>I've been trying some favorite baking recipes from my American cookbooks
>>but I'm now living in France and they don't come out right. Cakes come
>>out a bit heavy and leaden. I know that French flour is different from
>>American flour, and I wonder if there's some way to figure out how much
>>more (or less?) to use. I do have American baking powder, so it's not that.
>>
>>I think French sugar is coarser than what I'm used to as well. I find it
>>takes a lot longer to cream butter and sugar if I use standard French
>>sugar.
>
>
> Ellie, on the sugar subject I found the same thing when I lived in the
> UK - what they called "granulated sugar" was much coarser than what
> we're used to in the US. In the UK, they have something they call
> caster sugar which is more like granulated in the US, perhaps a little
> finer. A little work on Googe tells me that in France granulated
> sugar is "sucre granulé", caster sugar is "sucre de roulette". If you
> look for the latter, it might be what you're looking for, although if
> it's like the UK, it'll be a little more expensive.
>
> - Mark W.
Thanks. Yes, I've found the finer ground sugar, which in my market was
called something like powdered sugar, and is of course not what we think
of as powdered sugar in the US. I needed some powdered (confectioner's)
sugar to rprinkle on the top of this same cake and I made it by whirring
some ordinary sugar in a blender for a while. It worked OK, but the
sugar was quite hot by the time it was powdered.

Gabby wrote:

> "Mark Willstatter" > wrote in message
> om...
> A little work on Googe tells me that in France granulated
>
>>sugar is "sucre granulé", caster sugar is "sucre de roulette".
>
>
> Babelfish strikes again. Unless you want your sugar to come with little
> wheels you'd best look for 'sucre en poudre'.
>
> Gabby
>
>
I was wondering where the "sucre de roulette" came from. :-) An amusing
image.

Roy Basan wrote:

> Ellie C > wrote in message >.. .
>
>>I've been trying some favorite baking recipes from my American cookbooks
>>but I'm now living in France and they don't come out right. Cakes come
>>out a bit heavy and leaden. I know that French flour is different from
>>American flour, and I wonder if there's some way to figure out how much
>>more (or less?) to use. I do have American baking powder, so it's not that.
>>
>
> That is caused by untreated flour, with a higher protein content than
> american cake flour.
> I do not know what type of American baking powder you are using.
> Is it the Calumet or Clabber girl? or Royal baking powder?
> They are not the same.The best cakes are made with the former.
> Most american recipes are sweet and used lots of liquids.
> What particular recipe would you like to adjust?
> Please post your reply of in rec. food.baking.
> Roy

I used Calumet baking powder, just as I had used in the US. Never heard
of Clabber Girl or Royal. I don't have a particular recipe I want to
adjust, I was looking for general guidelines after making a cake last
week and having it come out very heavy and dense. I won't be making this
particular cake again since it's one I typically make for a large crowd
or a special occasion.

Thanks,

Ellie

"Gabby" > wrote in message >...
> "Mark Willstatter" > wrote in message
> om...
> A little work on Googe tells me that in France granulated
> > sugar is "sucre granulé", caster sugar is "sucre de roulette".
>
> Babelfish strikes again. Unless you want your sugar to come with little
> wheels you'd best look for 'sucre en poudre'.
>
> Gabby

Gabby, "roulette" might not be the right word, my French is almost
non-existent (as no doubt you noticed ;^)) but "sucre en poudre"
wouldn't be it, either. We're looking for something in between the
French version of granulated sugar and confectioners/powdered/icing
sugar. I'd be curious to hear what the right word *is*.

"Mark Willstatter" > wrote in message
om...
> "Gabby" > wrote in message
> >...
>> "Mark Willstatter" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> A little work on Googe tells me that in France granulated
>> > sugar is "sucre granulé", caster sugar is "sucre de roulette".
>>
>> Babelfish strikes again. Unless you want your sugar to come with little
>> wheels you'd best look for 'sucre en poudre'.
>>
>> Gabby
>
> Gabby, "roulette" might not be the right word, my French is almost
> non-existent (as no doubt you noticed ;^)) but "sucre en poudre"
> wouldn't be it, either. We're looking for something in between the
> French version of granulated sugar and confectioners/powdered/icing
> sugar. I'd be curious to hear what the right word *is*.

My "Le Robert & Collins" English French dictionary defines "caster sugar" as
"sucre en poudre".

Gabby

"Mark Willstatter" > wrote in message
om...
> "Gabby" > wrote in message
> >...
>> "Mark Willstatter" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> A little work on Googe tells me that in France granulated
>> > sugar is "sucre granulé", caster sugar is "sucre de roulette".
>>
>> Babelfish strikes again. Unless you want your sugar to come with little
>> wheels you'd best look for 'sucre en poudre'.
>>
>> Gabby
>
> Gabby, "roulette" might not be the right word, my French is almost
> non-existent (as no doubt you noticed ;^)) but "sucre en poudre"
> wouldn't be it, either. We're looking for something in between the
> French version of granulated sugar and confectioners/powdered/icing
> sugar. I'd be curious to hear what the right word *is*.

My "Le Robert & Collins" English French dictionary defines "caster sugar" as
"sucre en poudre".

Gabby

"Mark Willstatter" > wrote in message > Gabby, "roulette"
might not be the right word, my French is almost
> non-existent (as no doubt you noticed ;^)) but "sucre en poudre"
> wouldn't be it, either. We're looking for something in between the
> French version of granulated sugar and confectioners/powdered/icing
> sugar. I'd be curious to hear what the right word *is*.

Oh, and it defines 'icing sugar' as 'Sucre glace' which makes sense since
it's used to make 'glaçage' or 'glace'

Gabby

Ellie C > wrote in message >.. .
> Roy Basan wrote:

> Very interesting! Who knew? I had noticed that French bakers don't make
> the same sort of cake we make in the US. I knew they made sponges and
> genoises but didn't realize that there were no other types of cake.
> Hmmm. I do see pound cake in the supermarkets, though.
A pound cake if made traditionally i.e a pound of each ingredient(
flour, eggs, sugar and butter) can be made perfectly with the French
T45 flour suited for fined baked goods.
> I think I can buy British flour in a store in Carcassonne that carries
> British food items. I'll try that.
>
> Thanks!

If you happend to find a British flour in France, please try to ask
the store keeper if its just plain flour or cake making flour.Plain
flour can be just similar or slightly less in quality to the T45, its
still untreated, just milled flour from English wheat.Please Choose
the latter( cake flour)....
The near equivalent to US cake flour is the so labelled High ratio
cake flour.
I am not sure if that kind of labelling is applied on British flour
exported to the neigboring EEC countries.
Roy

Ellie C > wrote in message >.. .
> Roy Basan wrote:

> Very interesting! Who knew? I had noticed that French bakers don't make
> the same sort of cake we make in the US. I knew they made sponges and
> genoises but didn't realize that there were no other types of cake.
> Hmmm. I do see pound cake in the supermarkets, though.
A pound cake if made traditionally i.e a pound of each ingredient(
flour, eggs, sugar and butter) can be made perfectly with the French
T45 flour suited for fined baked goods.
> I think I can buy British flour in a store in Carcassonne that carries
> British food items. I'll try that.
>
> Thanks!

If you happend to find a British flour in France, please try to ask
the store keeper if its just plain flour or cake making flour.Plain
flour can be just similar or slightly less in quality to the T45, its
still untreated, just milled flour from English wheat.Please Choose
the latter( cake flour)....
The near equivalent to US cake flour is the so labelled High ratio
cake flour.
I am not sure if that kind of labelling is applied on British flour
exported to the neigboring EEC countries.
Roy

Ellie C > wrote in message >.. .
> Roy Basan wrote:
>
> > Ellie C > wrote in message >.. .
> >
> >>I've been trying some favorite baking recipes from my American cookbooks
> >>but I'm now living in France and they don't come out right. Cakes come
> >>out a bit heavy and leaden. I know that French flour is different from
> >>American flour, and I wonder if there's some way to figure out how much
> >>more (or less?) to use. I do have American baking powder, so it's not that.
> >>
> >
> > That is caused by untreated flour, with a higher protein content than
> > american cake flour.
> > I do not know what type of American baking powder you are using.
> > Is it the Calumet or Clabber girl? or Royal baking powder?
> > They are not the same.The best cakes are made with the former.
> > Most american recipes are sweet and used lots of liquids.
> > What particular recipe would you like to adjust?
> > Please post your reply of in rec. food.baking.
> > Roy
>
> I used Calumet baking powder, just as I had used in the US. Never heard
> of Clabber Girl or Royal. I don't have a particular recipe I want to
> adjust, I was looking for general guidelines after making a cake last
> week and having it come out very heavy and dense. I won't be making this
> particular cake again since it's one I typically make for a large crowd
> or a special occasion.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ellie

Good to hear that.....Calumet can be considered a robust baking powder
for cake making. Clabber girl have the same ingredient composition as
the Calumet and its also double acting and so equivalent in
performance.
While the Royal baking powder is more of weaker type of leavening
agent; it is just a single acting type and the leavening acid used is
not the top of the line either.
If someday you decide to make that kind of cake again, please reduce
the amount of sugar ( not higher than flour weight)so that the cake
batter will be lighter( lower specific gravity) the resulting cake
texture will be porous not dense.
With such lessened sweetener , in order to attain the desired batter
fluidity you will need less liquid( liquid milk). Then you will likely
end up with a satisfactory cake especially if you bake it properly.
Roy

Roy Basan wrote:

> Ellie C > wrote in message >.. .
>
>>Roy Basan wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Ellie C > wrote in message >.. .
>>>
>>>
>>>>I've been trying some favorite baking recipes from my American cookbooks
>>>>but I'm now living in France and they don't come out right. Cakes come
>>>>out a bit heavy and leaden. I know that French flour is different from
>>>>American flour, and I wonder if there's some way to figure out how much
>>>>more (or less?) to use. I do have American baking powder, so it's not that.
>>>>
>>>
>>>That is caused by untreated flour, with a higher protein content than
>>>american cake flour.
>>>I do not know what type of American baking powder you are using.
>>>Is it the Calumet or Clabber girl? or Royal baking powder?
>>>They are not the same.The best cakes are made with the former.
>>>Most american recipes are sweet and used lots of liquids.
>>>What particular recipe would you like to adjust?
>>>Please post your reply of in rec. food.baking.
>>>Roy
>>
>>I used Calumet baking powder, just as I had used in the US. Never heard
>>of Clabber Girl or Royal. I don't have a particular recipe I want to
>>adjust, I was looking for general guidelines after making a cake last
>>week and having it come out very heavy and dense. I won't be making this
>>particular cake again since it's one I typically make for a large crowd
>>or a special occasion.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Ellie
>
>
> Good to hear that.....Calumet can be considered a robust baking powder
> for cake making. Clabber girl have the same ingredient composition as
> the Calumet and its also double acting and so equivalent in
> performance.
> While the Royal baking powder is more of weaker type of leavening
> agent; it is just a single acting type and the leavening acid used is
> not the top of the line either.
> If someday you decide to make that kind of cake again, please reduce
> the amount of sugar ( not higher than flour weight)so that the cake
> batter will be lighter( lower specific gravity) the resulting cake
> texture will be porous not dense.
> With such lessened sweetener , in order to attain the desired batter
> fluidity you will need less liquid( liquid milk). Then you will likely
> end up with a satisfactory cake especially if you bake it properly.
> Roy
Interesting. I wouldn't have thought of reducing the amount of sugar.
I'll probably make this cake again at Christmas - even when it comes out
with a imperfect texture, it tastes wonderful. Thanks!

"Ellie C" > wrote in message
...
> Gabby wrote:
>> Oh, and it defines 'icing sugar' as 'Sucre glace' which makes sense
>> since it's used to make 'glaçage' or 'glace'
>>
>> Gabby
> Are you sure the word "glace" is used for what we call frosting? I've only
> ever come across it used for ice cream, and ice.

Have to admit I've never heard icing referred to as 'glace' either, only
'glaçage'. Then again, I'm in Canada and we don't always use the same
terms as in France.

Gabby

"Ellie C" > wrote in message
...
> Gabby wrote:
>> Oh, and it defines 'icing sugar' as 'Sucre glace' which makes sense
>> since it's used to make 'glaçage' or 'glace'
>>
>> Gabby
> Are you sure the word "glace" is used for what we call frosting? I've only
> ever come across it used for ice cream, and ice.

Have to admit I've never heard icing referred to as 'glace' either, only
'glaçage'. Then again, I'm in Canada and we don't always use the same
terms as in France.

Gabby