A little question from a beginner (me)

Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock, brown stock or whatever other
kind of stock. My question is this: What do you guys do? do you always
make your own stock from scratch?

I know there's a difference between stock (made with bones) and broth (made
with the actual meat), but can one be a substitute for the other?

Thanks in advance.

> "Steph G.B" doodles:
>
>A little question from a beginner (me)
>
>Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock,

"Alot"?


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

> "Steph G.B" doodles:
>
>A little question from a beginner (me)
>
>Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock,

"Alot"?


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

"Steph G.B" > wrote in message
. ..
> A little question from a beginner (me)
>
> Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock, brown stock or whatever other
> kind of stock. My question is this: What do you guys do? do you always
> make your own stock from scratch?
>
> I know there's a difference between stock (made with bones) and broth
(made
> with the actual meat), but can one be a substitute for the other?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>

The stock/broth distinction youu mention is an artificial one. Some people
use it but it is really meaningless. For example, if I simmer a whole
chicken - meat and bones - would I end up with stock or broth? The terms are
usually used interchangeably.

Making your own is always better (assuming you do it right!) but not always
feasible. Fortunately there are some decent commercial stocks available.
Swanson's chicken stock is surprisingly good. Their beef stock is not as
good but is still OK. There are also condensed products like demi glace gold
which takes veal stock and reduces it to a jelly - you then dissolve it for
use. Probably needless to say, but bullion cubes should be avoided like the
plague.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

Steph G.B wrote (10/15/2004):

<snip>

>Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock, brown stock or
>whatever other kind of stock. My question is this: What do
>you guys do? do you always make your own stock from scratch?

I make chicken and beef stock on a rotating basis every
second to third week, except in the summer. I end up with
about 2 to 2-1/2 quarts each time. That may sound like a lot
for home use for 2 (usually) people, but I go through it pretty
quickly, between soup, sauce, cooking liquid for rice, bulgur,
etc.

I keep several containers of supermarket broth on hand in case
I run low on my own. I agree with the poster (Peter, I believe)
who said, as I recall, that the chicken is better than the beef,
but the beef is still pretty good.

I don't make my own veal stock. Many recipes that call for veal
stock say that you can substitute chicken stock. This seems to
work okay, although I sense that people with palates more di-
scerning than mine might disapprove.

Steph G.B wrote (10/15/2004):

<snip>

>Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock, brown stock or
>whatever other kind of stock. My question is this: What do
>you guys do? do you always make your own stock from scratch?

I make chicken and beef stock on a rotating basis every
second to third week, except in the summer. I end up with
about 2 to 2-1/2 quarts each time. That may sound like a lot
for home use for 2 (usually) people, but I go through it pretty
quickly, between soup, sauce, cooking liquid for rice, bulgur,
etc.

I keep several containers of supermarket broth on hand in case
I run low on my own. I agree with the poster (Peter, I believe)
who said, as I recall, that the chicken is better than the beef,
but the beef is still pretty good.

I don't make my own veal stock. Many recipes that call for veal
stock say that you can substitute chicken stock. This seems to
work okay, although I sense that people with palates more di-
scerning than mine might disapprove.

Peter Aitken > wrote
> "Steph G.B" > wrote
> > A little question from a beginner (me)
> >
> > Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock, brown stock or whatever
other
> > kind of stock. My question is this: What do you guys do? do you
always
> > make your own stock from scratch?
> > I know there's a difference between stock (made with bones) and broth
> (made
> > with the actual meat), but can one be a substitute for the other?
> > Thanks in advance.
>
> The stock/broth distinction youu mention is an artificial one. Some people
> use it but it is really meaningless. For example, if I simmer a whole
> chicken - meat and bones - would I end up with stock or broth? The terms
are
> usually used interchangeably.
>
> Making your own is always better (assuming you do it right!) but not
always
> feasible. Fortunately there are some decent commercial stocks available.
> Swanson's chicken stock is surprisingly good. Their beef stock is not as
> good but is still OK. There are also condensed products like demi glace
gold
> which takes veal stock and reduces it to a jelly - you then dissolve it
for
> use. Probably needless to say, but bullion cubes should be avoided like
the
> plague.
> Peter Aitken

When I was a kid, Campbell Soup used to sell both chicken and beef consumme
or consomme or
however the heck you spell it. Is this stuff being called demi glace gold
now? I have looked and
looked for chicken consumme and just can't find it anywhere. I do make it
several times during the
winter but it sure would be nice just to open up a can now and again. Any
ideas where it can be
purchased? Suz

"Suuzzee" > wrote in message
...
>
> Peter Aitken > wrote
> > "Steph G.B" > wrote
> > > A little question from a beginner (me)
> > >
> > > Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock, brown stock or whatever
> other
> > > kind of stock. My question is this: What do you guys do? do you
> always
> > > make your own stock from scratch?
> > > I know there's a difference between stock (made with bones) and broth
> > (made
> > > with the actual meat), but can one be a substitute for the other?
> > > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > The stock/broth distinction youu mention is an artificial one. Some
people
> > use it but it is really meaningless. For example, if I simmer a whole
> > chicken - meat and bones - would I end up with stock or broth? The terms
> are
> > usually used interchangeably.
> >
> > Making your own is always better (assuming you do it right!) but not
> always
> > feasible. Fortunately there are some decent commercial stocks available.
> > Swanson's chicken stock is surprisingly good. Their beef stock is not as
> > good but is still OK. There are also condensed products like demi glace
> gold
> > which takes veal stock and reduces it to a jelly - you then dissolve it
> for
> > use. Probably needless to say, but bullion cubes should be avoided like
> the
> > plague.
> > Peter Aitken
>
> When I was a kid, Campbell Soup used to sell both chicken and beef
consumme
> or consomme or
> however the heck you spell it. Is this stuff being called demi glace gold
> now? I have looked and
> looked for chicken consumme and just can't find it anywhere. I do make it
> several times during the
> winter but it sure would be nice just to open up a can now and again. Any
> ideas where it can be
> purchased? Suz
>

No, not the same thing. Demi-glace is the consistency of hard jello and
comes in small "tubs." You dissolve a spoonful in a cup of water to get
something similar in strength to stock, or add directly to sauces etc. for
flavor.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

Kevintsheehy wrote:

> Steph G.B wrote (10/15/2004):
>
> <snip>
>
>>Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock, brown stock or
>>whatever other kind of stock. My question is this: What do
>>you guys do? do you always make your own stock from scratch?
>
>
> I make chicken and beef stock on a rotating basis every
> second to third week, except in the summer. I end up with
> about 2 to 2-1/2 quarts each time. That may sound like a lot
> for home use for 2 (usually) people, but I go through it pretty
> quickly, between soup, sauce, cooking liquid for rice, bulgur,
> etc.
>
> I keep several containers of supermarket broth on hand in case
> I run low on my own. I agree with the poster (Peter, I believe)
> who said, as I recall, that the chicken is better than the beef,
> but the beef is still pretty good.
>
> I don't make my own veal stock. Many recipes that call for veal
> stock say that you can substitute chicken stock. This seems to
> work okay, although I sense that people with palates more di-
> scerning than mine might disapprove.

I make my own beef and chicken stock because I can reduce it without
ending up with something that is far too salty to be used. Veal bones
are hard to find so I usually use a mixture of beef and chicken stock in
place of the veal stock.

Jim Lahue

Kevintsheehy wrote:

> Steph G.B wrote (10/15/2004):
>
> <snip>
>
>>Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock, brown stock or
>>whatever other kind of stock. My question is this: What do
>>you guys do? do you always make your own stock from scratch?
>
>
> I make chicken and beef stock on a rotating basis every
> second to third week, except in the summer. I end up with
> about 2 to 2-1/2 quarts each time. That may sound like a lot
> for home use for 2 (usually) people, but I go through it pretty
> quickly, between soup, sauce, cooking liquid for rice, bulgur,
> etc.
>
> I keep several containers of supermarket broth on hand in case
> I run low on my own. I agree with the poster (Peter, I believe)
> who said, as I recall, that the chicken is better than the beef,
> but the beef is still pretty good.
>
> I don't make my own veal stock. Many recipes that call for veal
> stock say that you can substitute chicken stock. This seems to
> work okay, although I sense that people with palates more di-
> scerning than mine might disapprove.

I make my own beef and chicken stock because I can reduce it without
ending up with something that is far too salty to be used. Veal bones
are hard to find so I usually use a mixture of beef and chicken stock in
place of the veal stock.

Jim Lahue

Kevintsheehy wrote:

> Steph G.B wrote (10/15/2004):
>
> <snip>
>
>>Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock, brown stock or
>>whatever other kind of stock. My question is this: What do
>>you guys do? do you always make your own stock from scratch?
>
>
> I make chicken and beef stock on a rotating basis every
> second to third week, except in the summer. I end up with
> about 2 to 2-1/2 quarts each time. That may sound like a lot
> for home use for 2 (usually) people, but I go through it pretty
> quickly, between soup, sauce, cooking liquid for rice, bulgur,
> etc.
>
> I keep several containers of supermarket broth on hand in case
> I run low on my own. I agree with the poster (Peter, I believe)
> who said, as I recall, that the chicken is better than the beef,
> but the beef is still pretty good.
>
> I don't make my own veal stock. Many recipes that call for veal
> stock say that you can substitute chicken stock. This seems to
> work okay, although I sense that people with palates more di-
> scerning than mine might disapprove.

I make my own beef and chicken stock because I can reduce it without
ending up with something that is far too salty to be used. Veal bones
are hard to find so I usually use a mixture of beef and chicken stock in
place of the veal stock.

Jim Lahue

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:29:55 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> wrote:

>The stock/broth distinction youu mention is an artificial one. Some people
>use it but it is really meaningless. For example, if I simmer a whole
>chicken - meat and bones - would I end up with stock or broth? The terms are
>usually used interchangeably.

That's not my experience, Peter. Stock is usually defined as having
more collagen from bone marrow and thus greater body, than broth,
which is purely liquid. Cool a good veal or chicken stock, and it
thickens coniderably, while a broth, which is more similar to
bouillon.

Vegetable stock, of course, is really a misnomer. It's really a broth.

>Making your own is always better (assuming you do it right!) but not always
>feasible. Fortunately there are some decent commercial stocks available.
>Swanson's chicken stock is surprisingly good. Their beef stock is not as
>good but is still OK. There are also condensed products like demi glace gold
>which takes veal stock and reduces it to a jelly - you then dissolve it for
>use. Probably needless to say, but bullion cubes should be avoided like the
>plague.

Absolutely, yes.

Andy Katz

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:29:55 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> wrote:

>The stock/broth distinction youu mention is an artificial one. Some people
>use it but it is really meaningless. For example, if I simmer a whole
>chicken - meat and bones - would I end up with stock or broth? The terms are
>usually used interchangeably.

That's not my experience, Peter. Stock is usually defined as having
more collagen from bone marrow and thus greater body, than broth,
which is purely liquid. Cool a good veal or chicken stock, and it
thickens coniderably, while a broth, which is more similar to
bouillon.

Vegetable stock, of course, is really a misnomer. It's really a broth.

>Making your own is always better (assuming you do it right!) but not always
>feasible. Fortunately there are some decent commercial stocks available.
>Swanson's chicken stock is surprisingly good. Their beef stock is not as
>good but is still OK. There are also condensed products like demi glace gold
>which takes veal stock and reduces it to a jelly - you then dissolve it for
>use. Probably needless to say, but bullion cubes should be avoided like the
>plague.

Absolutely, yes.

Andy Katz

"Andy Katz" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:29:55 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> > wrote:
>
> >The stock/broth distinction youu mention is an artificial one. Some
people
> >use it but it is really meaningless. For example, if I simmer a whole
> >chicken - meat and bones - would I end up with stock or broth? The terms
are
> >usually used interchangeably.
>
> That's not my experience, Peter. Stock is usually defined as having
> more collagen from bone marrow and thus greater body, than broth,
> which is purely liquid. Cool a good veal or chicken stock, and it
> thickens coniderably, while a broth, which is more similar to
> bouillon.
>

First of all, bone marrow does not contain collagen - it comes from the
cartilage, tendons, etc. But I stand by my comment. Some people do make the
distinction between stock and broth but many others do not - and this
includes many cookbooks I consulted. So it is wrong to claim it is "proper"
usage to make the distinction.

And what about my whole chicken example? When I make stock this way, or from
whole chicken legs, it most certainly gels when cold. It's made from meat
*and* bones, so where does it fall? And while I haven't tried it, I bet if I
made stock from just chicken skin, which contains collagen, it would gel -
but no bones are used. Stock or broth? And if you make stock from just bones
that have no meat on them it will be pretty flavorless. See what I mean?
From the perspective of the cook who is using it, the distinction you draw
between stock and broth is meaningless so why bother?


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Andy Katz" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:29:55 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> > wrote:
>
> >The stock/broth distinction youu mention is an artificial one. Some
people
> >use it but it is really meaningless. For example, if I simmer a whole
> >chicken - meat and bones - would I end up with stock or broth? The terms
are
> >usually used interchangeably.
>
> That's not my experience, Peter. Stock is usually defined as having
> more collagen from bone marrow and thus greater body, than broth,
> which is purely liquid. Cool a good veal or chicken stock, and it
> thickens coniderably, while a broth, which is more similar to
> bouillon.
>

First of all, bone marrow does not contain collagen - it comes from the
cartilage, tendons, etc. But I stand by my comment. Some people do make the
distinction between stock and broth but many others do not - and this
includes many cookbooks I consulted. So it is wrong to claim it is "proper"
usage to make the distinction.

And what about my whole chicken example? When I make stock this way, or from
whole chicken legs, it most certainly gels when cold. It's made from meat
*and* bones, so where does it fall? And while I haven't tried it, I bet if I
made stock from just chicken skin, which contains collagen, it would gel -
but no bones are used. Stock or broth? And if you make stock from just bones
that have no meat on them it will be pretty flavorless. See what I mean?
From the perspective of the cook who is using it, the distinction you draw
between stock and broth is meaningless so why bother?


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

Peter Aitken" writes:
>
>>"Andy Katz" wrote
>>"Peter Aitken"
>> >
>> >The stock/broth distinction youu mention is an artificial one. Some
>people
>> >use it but it is really meaningless. For example, if I simmer a whole
>> >chicken - meat and bones - would I end up with stock or broth? The terms
>are
>> >usually used interchangeably.
>>
>> That's not my experience, Peter. Stock is usually defined as having
>> more collagen from bone marrow and thus greater body, than broth,
>> which is purely liquid. Cool a good veal or chicken stock, and it
>> thickens coniderably, while a broth, which is more similar to
>> bouillon.
>>
>
>First of all, bone marrow does not contain collagen - it comes from the
>cartilage, tendons, etc. But I stand by my comment. Some people do make the
>distinction between stock and broth but many others do not - and this
>includes many cookbooks I consulted. So it is wrong to claim it is "proper"
>usage to make the distinction.
>
>And what about my whole chicken example? When I make stock this way, or from
>whole chicken legs, it most certainly gels when cold. It's made from meat
>*and* bones, so where does it fall? And while I haven't tried it, I bet if I
>made stock from just chicken skin, which contains collagen, it would gel -
>but no bones are used. Stock or broth? And if you make stock from just bones
>that have no meat on them it will be pretty flavorless. See what I mean?
>From the perspective of the cook who is using it, the distinction you draw
>between stock and broth is meaningless so why bother?

Stock, broth, and bouillion are synonymous... the resultant strained liquid
from cooking meat and/or vegetables. Being gelatinous is not a requirement...
vegetarian stock doesn't contain any gelatine yet is stock nevertheless.
However, consommé is different, that's *clarified* stock.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

Peter Aitken" writes:
>
>>"Andy Katz" wrote
>>"Peter Aitken"
>> >
>> >The stock/broth distinction youu mention is an artificial one. Some
>people
>> >use it but it is really meaningless. For example, if I simmer a whole
>> >chicken - meat and bones - would I end up with stock or broth? The terms
>are
>> >usually used interchangeably.
>>
>> That's not my experience, Peter. Stock is usually defined as having
>> more collagen from bone marrow and thus greater body, than broth,
>> which is purely liquid. Cool a good veal or chicken stock, and it
>> thickens coniderably, while a broth, which is more similar to
>> bouillon.
>>
>
>First of all, bone marrow does not contain collagen - it comes from the
>cartilage, tendons, etc. But I stand by my comment. Some people do make the
>distinction between stock and broth but many others do not - and this
>includes many cookbooks I consulted. So it is wrong to claim it is "proper"
>usage to make the distinction.
>
>And what about my whole chicken example? When I make stock this way, or from
>whole chicken legs, it most certainly gels when cold. It's made from meat
>*and* bones, so where does it fall? And while I haven't tried it, I bet if I
>made stock from just chicken skin, which contains collagen, it would gel -
>but no bones are used. Stock or broth? And if you make stock from just bones
>that have no meat on them it will be pretty flavorless. See what I mean?
>From the perspective of the cook who is using it, the distinction you draw
>between stock and broth is meaningless so why bother?

Stock, broth, and bouillion are synonymous... the resultant strained liquid
from cooking meat and/or vegetables. Being gelatinous is not a requirement...
vegetarian stock doesn't contain any gelatine yet is stock nevertheless.
However, consommé is different, that's *clarified* stock.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````