I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.

Are there any suggestions or websites to help me sharpen these?

I cook a lot, and use the sharpening rod.. but the knives are not
getting any sharper.

It's called a Steel-a Sharpening Steel.
Try http://www.ameritech.net/users/knives/index.htm you probably need
something more than just a Steel-they are somewhat old fashioned.



On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:50:49 -0600, Pete > wrote:

>I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
>
>Are there any suggestions or websites to help me sharpen these?
>
>I cook a lot, and use the sharpening rod.. but the knives are not
>getting any sharper.

"Pete" > wrote in message
...

> I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening
> rod.

It's more properly called a "steel."

> Are there any suggestions or websites to help me
> sharpen these? I cook a lot, and use the sharpening
> rod.. but the knives are not getting any sharper.

The steel helps keep the existing edge true, rather than actually
sharpening. It could be that your knives are simply read to have a
new edge put on, either professionally or by you, using a sharpening
stone.

Jerry Avins posted this link to alt.cooking chat recently -- it's very
informative:
http://gpvec.unl.edu/files/feedlot/Sharp1.htm

If you decide you want to invest in a sharpening system above and
beyond a sharpening stone, this one is interesting, if expensive:
http://business.gorge.net/edgepro/

-j

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:50:49 -0600, Pete wrote:

> I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
>
> Are there any suggestions or websites to help me sharpen these?
>
> I cook a lot, and use the sharpening rod.. but the knives are not
> getting any sharper.

That's because, despite the name, it's *not* for sharpening: it's for
*honing*. The blade, with use, goes out of true and the honing steel will
help you right the blade. But, as the blade *dulls*, no amount of honing
will help that. You need to have a blade smith come and sharpen the blade
for you.

--
Darryl L. Pierce >
Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
"What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
"Die for oil suckers....suckers....suckers...." - Jello Biafra

A steel will only remove some of the bad edge, you need a stone to sharpen
them before you use the steel.


--
Helen

Thanks be unto God for His wonderful gift:
Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God
is the object of our faith; the only faith that
saves is faith in Him

<>< ><>
www.peagramfamily.com
http://www.mompeagram.homestead.com/

http://www.mompeagram.homestead.com/..._WATCHERS.html

http://www.mompeagram.homestead.com/RECIPES.html


225/188.4/145





"Pete" > wrote in message
...
> I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
>
> Are there any suggestions or websites to help me sharpen these?
>
> I cook a lot, and use the sharpening rod.. but the knives are not
> getting any sharper.

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:50:49 -0600, Pete > wrote:

>I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
>
>Are there any suggestions or websites to help me sharpen these?
>
>I cook a lot, and use the sharpening rod.. but the knives are not
>getting any sharper.

Perhaps you aren't tilting the knife enough. You have to feel the edge
contact the rod, just barely. What the rod does is burnish the edge
back straight where it has bent over.

It also wears away the edge so after many years you may find a
concavity in the edge. In that case grinding is necessary.




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

Entering your freshman dorm for the first time, and seeing
an axe head come through the door on your right.

On 1/27/2004 11:35 PM Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these
great (and sometimes not so great) words of knowledge:

The "steel" is used for honing the blade, just touching up the edge
and/or removing any burr that may develop - not for sharpening.

Depending on how much use the knives have had they may need sharpening.
MOST local butcher shops will sharpen you knives for free.

Personally, I don't know if I would trust my Wusthof knives to a butcher
shop, however, there are many good knife sharpening people out there.

If you want to do it yourself, I can highly recommend the "Chef's
Choice" brand (about $100). I have a 320 (220 ?) and love it. I have
only used the #1 wheel on one knife (It would barely cut melted butter
{:-} ). I usually use the #3 wheel and the knives are literally sharp
enough to shave with.

On a personal note - after I sharpen the knives I HAVE TO POST SIGNS all
over the kitchen so the wife doesn't cut herself (I sharpen her knives
once a month and she has STRICT ORDERS NOT TO TOUCH THE WUSTHOF KNIVES
[my knives]). One trip to the emergency room was enough (14 stitches
and she didn't know she had cut herself until she looked and saw all the
blood).



> It's called a Steel-a Sharpening Steel.
> Try http://www.ameritech.net/users/knives/index.htm you probably need
> something more than just a Steel-they are somewhat old fashioned.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:50:49 -0600, Pete > wrote:
>
>>I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
>>
>>Are there any suggestions or websites to help me sharpen these?
>>
>>I cook a lot, and use the sharpening rod.. but the knives are not
>>getting any sharper.
>

>"Herr Darryl Achtung Pierce" oinks:
>
Pete wrote:
>
>> I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
>
>That's because, despite the name, it's *not* for sharpening: it's for
>*honing*.

Wrong. Knife steels *burnish*, they do not hone. Hones are abrasive and
remove material, typically employed for finishing/sizing cylinder IDs. For
finer finishing of more or less flat surfaces a *strop* is employed, but that
too removes material with an abrasive, usually "rottenstone".

There do indeed exist "sharpening rods" of many styles (and if that's what the
OP says he has then that's what he's got - don't put your ignorant verbiage in
people's mouths, you dumb Krautish lout *******), usually constructed of
ceramic, or a diamond dust impregnated substrate.

Search: <sharpening rods>

Global Ceramic Sharpening Rods - Global Ceramic Sharpening Rods. ... $29.95,
add. 10-in. Ceramic Sharpening Rod by Global #G-25 IN STOCK! $84.95, add.
Displaying Items 1 - 2 of 2, ...
http://www.cutleryandmore.com/shop/p...=0&FamilyBD=84

Kyocera Ceramic Sharpening Rods - ... Return Policy, BizRate Customer
Certified (GOLD) Site. Kyocera Ceramic Sharpening Rods. 6-in. Ceramic
Sharpening Rod by Kyocera Item No. CSW-12 IN STOCK! ...
http://www.cutleryandmore.com/shop/c...d=20&family=84
www.cutleryandmore.com]

Ceramic Sharpening Rods -click image to enlarge - Knife Sharpeners ... - Knife
Sharpener - Arkansas Sharpening Stone! Bench stones, tri-stone, also ceramic
rods and leather strops. ... Ceramic Sharpening Rods -click image to enlarge.
....
http://www.knifeart.com/cerspeedrod.html

Smith's® Ceramic Sharpening Rods (Css9) - Big Ez Shoppe. Smith's® Ceramic
Sharpening Rods (Css9). Smith's&reg; Ceramic Sharpening Rods (Css9) Smith's®
Ceramic Sharpening Rods (Css9) SMITH ABRASIVES. ...
http://www.bigezshoppe.com/ah/ac-0950.html

A Cook's Wares - www.cookswares.com - ... Diamond Machining Technology Diamond
Vee Sharpening Rods. ... We have found that the best way to keep knives sharp
is to use sharpening rods. ...
http://www.cookswares.com/individual.asp?n=4370

<snipped>
---

---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

Any suggestions on where to get a stone?

Are there rating by how coarse they are?

My knives are a year old, used a lot and never sharpened.

"THEMOM1" > wrote in message >...
> A steel will only remove some of the bad edge, you need a stone to sharpen
> them before you use the steel.
>
>
> --
> Helen
>
> Thanks be unto God for His wonderful gift:
> Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God
> is the object of our faith; the only faith that
> saves is faith in Him
>
> <>< ><>
> www.peagramfamily.com
> http://www.mompeagram.homestead.com/
>
> http://www.mompeagram.homestead.com/..._WATCHERS.html
>
> http://www.mompeagram.homestead.com/RECIPES.html
>
>
> 225/188.4/145
>
>
>
>
>
> "Pete" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
> >
> > Are there any suggestions or websites to help me sharpen these?
> >
> > I cook a lot, and use the sharpening rod.. but the knives are not
> > getting any sharper.

Is it even a good idea to use the "steel" ?

More harm then good???


Rodney Myrvaagnes > wrote in message >. ..
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:50:49 -0600, Pete > wrote:
>
> >I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
> >
> >Are there any suggestions or websites to help me sharpen these?
> >
> >I cook a lot, and use the sharpening rod.. but the knives are not
> >getting any sharper.
>
> Perhaps you aren't tilting the knife enough. You have to feel the edge
> contact the rod, just barely. What the rod does is burnish the edge
> back straight where it has bent over.
>
> It also wears away the edge so after many years you may find a
> concavity in the edge. In that case grinding is necessary.
>
>
>
>
> Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a
>
> Entering your freshman dorm for the first time, and seeing
> an axe head come through the door on your right.

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:12:20 -0800, Pete wrote:

> Is it even a good idea to use the "steel" ?
>
> More harm then good???

No harm in them, no, as long as you understand what they are and aren't
doing. As long as you don't expect the blade to be sharper when done, then
they're doing no harm.

--
Darryl L. Pierce >
Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
"What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:45:01 +0000, PENMART01 wrote:

>>"Herr Darryl Achtung Pierce" oinks:
>>
> Pete wrote:
>>
>>> I have some Henckels knives and a sharpening rod.
>>
>>That's because, despite the name, it's *not* for sharpening: it's for
>>*honing*.
>
> Wrong. Knife steels *burnish*, they do not hone. Hones are abrasive and
> remove material,

Which a steel has and does, though it really pushes metal back into place
more than it does remove material.

> typically employed for finishing/sizing cylinder IDs. For
> finer finishing of more or less flat surfaces a *strop* is employed, but that
> too removes material with an abrasive, usually "rottenstone".
>
> There do indeed exist "sharpening rods" of many styles (and if that's what the
> OP says he has then that's what he's got - don't put your ignorant verbiage in
> people's mouths, you dumb Krautish lout *******),

Krautish? WTF are you babbling about now?

<snip>

--
Darryl L. Pierce >
Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
"What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"

On 28 Jan 2004 12:12:20 -0800, (Pete) wrote:

>Is it even a good idea to use the "steel" ?
>
>More harm then good???
>

You should use the steel every day. If you keep the edge good with the
steel you can go years without having to use an abrasive on it.

When the edge goes, you have to use a stone, which makes the knife a
little smaller. Eventually, no knife.



Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

"Pete" > wrote in message
om...
> Any suggestions on where to get a stone?

THe cheapest good ones are from woodworking stores. Have a look around the
net for woodworking sites in your country.
>
> Are there rating by how coarse they are?

Yes. The best I have found are Japanese water stones. They are sold in
various grits/sizes. A standard sized combination stone will be about two
inches wide and a grit of 1000 one side 6000 the other side will give you a
razor edge once you learn how to use it.. <not an exageration. I can shave
with some of my knives> These stones just need to be soaked in water for
about half an hour, then put on the worktop on a folded towel to stop it
moving. They can be a bit messy, so use an old towel.

Because you use water, and the grit that wears off is just a ceramic man
made material, there is no danger of it contaminating your food like oil
could do if it works its way into the handle of your knife. Just rinse it
after sharpening. After use, always wash all the grit and metal powder that
was created in the sharpening process off the stone with cold running water.
Let it dry out for a day or two. Otherwise you will get a mouldy stone.

Then you use your steel to maintain the edge untill it gets blunt again.

> My knives are a year old, used a lot and never sharpened.

Then you may need to set aside quite a lot of time to sharpen, and don't let
them get in such a state again. Look around on the net for websites with
articles on sharpening. Once you get the knives in good shape, it will only
take minutes to bring them from a little dull to perfectly sharp.

http://silverkitchen.com/Knife_Knowl...harpening.html Has some good
articles. Read a few and go with the method that feels right for you.

John

On 01/28/2004 11:27 PM, in article , "John
Bailey" > opined:

>
> "Pete" > wrote in message
> om...
>> Any suggestions on where to get a stone?
>
> THe cheapest good ones are from woodworking stores. Have a look around the
> net for woodworking sites in your country.
>>
>> Are there rating by how coarse they are?
>
> Yes. The best I have found are Japanese water stones. They are sold in
> various grits/sizes. A standard sized combination stone will be about two
> inches wide and a grit of 1000 one side 6000 the other side will give you a
> razor edge once you learn how to use it.. <not an exageration. I can shave
> with some of my knives> These stones just need to be soaked in water for
> about half an hour, then put on the worktop on a folded towel to stop it
> moving. They can be a bit messy, so use an old towel.
>
> Because you use water, and the grit that wears off is just a ceramic man
> made material, there is no danger of it contaminating your food like oil
> could do if it works its way into the handle of your knife. Just rinse it
> after sharpening. After use, always wash all the grit and metal powder that
> was created in the sharpening process off the stone with cold running water.
> Let it dry out for a day or two. Otherwise you will get a mouldy stone.

Most of your info was relevant and true except the above.

Japanese waterstones have to be saturated with water to work properly, so
they always need to be stored in water.

Get a Tupperware container big enough to store your stone and keep it
submerged. If you are concerned about mould put one capful of Clorox bleach
in the Tupperware.

And Japanese waterstones must be constantly flattened because they are so
soft. If you want to know how to do that, let us know.
>
> Then you use your steel to maintain the edge untill it gets blunt again.
>
>> My knives are a year old, used a lot and never sharpened.
>
> Then you may need to set aside quite a lot of time to sharpen, and don't let
> them get in such a state again. Look around on the net for websites with
> articles on sharpening. Once you get the knives in good shape, it will only
> take minutes to bring them from a little dull to perfectly sharp.
>
> http://silverkitchen.com/Knife_Knowl...harpening.html Has some good
> articles. Read a few and go with the method that feels right for you.
>
> John
>
>

> Most of your info was relevant and true except the above.
>
> Japanese waterstones have to be saturated with water to work properly, so
> they always need to be stored in water.

For someone needing to sharpen every day such as a woodworker who needs to
sharpen chisels and plane irons several times a day while working on a
project or a professional kitchen where the knives would get blunt very
quickly then storing them in water is essential. Nobody wants to stop work
while waiting for the stones to drink up all the water they need.
But for someone who is using the stone to sharpen perhaps three or four
kitchen knives every other month, it may be more convinent to store the
stone in a drawer and only take it out and soak it when the knives need
sharpening.

Such light use sharpening knives should not need a dead flat stone. Unlike
woodworking tools, where a non flat stone is worse than useless, the curved
edge of a knife doesn't require such an exact surface to get good results. A
second coarser stone should be fine for many years of light use. Just rub
the two together for a few minutes to wear off the high spots. although
special truing stones are available which will do this faster.

I could very well be using my sharpening stones to a fraction of their
potential over the years. But I have found soaking them untill they can hold
no
more water, and then letting them dry out again after use to be more
convinent, and I still get very good results. Others may have different
preferences.

John

On 01/29/2004 9:53 AM, in article , "John
Bailey" > opined:

>> Most of your info was relevant and true except the above.
>>
>> Japanese waterstones have to be saturated with water to work properly, so
>> they always need to be stored in water.
>
> For someone needing to sharpen every day such as a woodworker who needs to
> sharpen chisels and plane irons several times a day while working on a
> project or a professional kitchen where the knives would get blunt very
> quickly then storing them in water is essential. Nobody wants to stop work
> while waiting for the stones to drink up all the water they need.
> But for someone who is using the stone to sharpen perhaps three or four
> kitchen knives every other month, it may be more convinent to store the
> stone in a drawer and only take it out and soak it when the knives need
> sharpening.
>
> Such light use sharpening knives should not need a dead flat stone.


IMO you're missing the point here. Why sacrifice quality of honing, the
reason Japanese waterstone cut so well is they are MUCH softer than Arkansas
oilstones. The black material left on the stone is metal coming off the
knife.

Go to your local glass dealer and ask if they have any 1/2" scrap, then go
to the hardware store and get some 220 grit wet & dry sandpaper.

Put the sandpaper on top of the glass and spray with water. Rub the stone
until all the black material is gone and you have a clean surface, this
indicates it is flat again.

Continue honing and you will notice improvement.





Unlike
> woodworking tools, where a non flat stone is worse than useless, the curved
> edge of a knife doesn't require such an exact surface to get good results. A
> second coarser stone should be fine for many years of light use. Just rub
> the two together for a few minutes to wear off the high spots. although
> special truing stones are available which will do this faster.
>
> I could very well be using my sharpening stones to a fraction of their
> potential over the years. But I have found soaking them untill they can hold
> no
> more water, and then letting them dry out again after use to be more
> convinent, and I still get very good results. Others may have different
> preferences.
>
> John
>
>
>
>

--
================================================== ==========================
"There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism...The one
absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin...would be to permit
it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities." Theodore Roosevelt.
(Speech, New York, 1915)
================================================== ==========================

In > (Pete) writes:

>Any suggestions on where to get a stone?

I use this kit (no affiliation) with all of my kitchen, utility, and
tactical knives:

http://www.razoredgesystems.com/prod...products_id=33

The manufacturer recommends that you don't use oil or water, but use the
hones dry instead. I was skeptical at first (having always used honing
oil), but my Wusthof and Benchmade knives were sharp enough to shave with
after using the kit as directed.

Regards,
Greg
--
\|/ ___ \|/ +----- 2048/83C90191 -----+
@~./'O o`\.~@ | 0B 65 E0 58 F3 F9 81 F5 |
/__( \___/ )__\ Crypto, Security, and Phrack: | F0 72 75 FA 1E BD C9 66 |
`\__`U_/' http://pobox.com/~thevision +-------- via WWW --------+

On 28 Jan 2004 12:11:19 -0800, (Pete) wrote:

>Any suggestions on where to get a stone?
>
>Are there rating by how coarse they are?
>
>My knives are a year old, used a lot and never sharpened.
>
>

http://www.leevalley.com

> IMO you're missing the point here. Why sacrifice quality of honing, the
> reason Japanese waterstone cut so well is they are MUCH softer than
Arkansas
> oilstones. The black material left on the stone is metal coming off the
> knife.

Which is mostly rinsed off by the water I drizzle on the stone. The 1000 is
coarse enough to not retain the metal swarf, and the fine side is finished
with the nagura stone which suspends most of the swarf in the slurry. About
every fourth or fifth time I use the stones, I rub the two I have together,
which keeps both surfaces true and rinsing the resultant slurry away gets
rid of any blackness.

> Go to your local glass dealer and ask if they have any 1/2" scrap, then go
> to the hardware store and get some 220 grit wet & dry sandpaper.
>
> Put the sandpaper on top of the glass and spray with water. Rub the stone
> until all the black material is gone and you have a clean surface, this
> indicates it is flat again.

The same process is often used for fettling hand planes. I'm well aware of
it, although I belive that the abrasive used is normally a bit finer than
that. 220 grit is a bit coarse. Try something a bit finer and your stones
will last longer.

> Continue honing and you will notice improvement.

They have worked to the same high standard since the day I got them. I've
been using the same stones since 97 or so, and have no black metal buildup,
no clogging, my waterstones are flat, and the edges on my cooking and
relevant woodworking tools and those of several friends are immaculate.

The point I was making about flatness was in relation to kitchen knives,
which I was assuming that the original poster was intending to be the only
thing they were sharpening. In this case, the stone does not need to be flat
to work correctly as it does with woodworking tools.

John

On 01/29/2004 7:00 PM, in article , "John
Bailey" > opined:

>
>> IMO you're missing the point here. Why sacrifice quality of honing, the
>> reason Japanese waterstone cut so well is they are MUCH softer than
> Arkansas
>> oilstones. The black material left on the stone is metal coming off the
>> knife.
>
> Which is mostly rinsed off by the water I drizzle on the stone. The 1000 is
> coarse enough to not retain the metal swarf, and the fine side is finished
> with the nagura stone which suspends most of the swarf in the slurry. About
> every fourth or fifth time I use the stones, I rub the two I have together,
> which keeps both surfaces true and rinsing the resultant slurry away gets
> rid of any blackness.
>
>> Go to your local glass dealer and ask if they have any 1/2" scrap, then go
>> to the hardware store and get some 220 grit wet & dry sandpaper.
>>
>> Put the sandpaper on top of the glass and spray with water. Rub the stone
>> until all the black material is gone and you have a clean surface, this
>> indicates it is flat again.
>
> The same process is often used for fettling hand planes. I'm well aware of
> it, although I belive that the abrasive used is normally a bit finer than
> that. 220 grit is a bit coarse. Try something a bit finer and your stones
> will last longer.

Had the same one for 10 years, it will last longer than I will.
>
>> Continue honing and you will notice improvement.
>
> They have worked to the same high standard since the day I got them. I've
> been using the same stones since 97 or so, and have no black metal buildup,
> no clogging, my waterstones are flat, and the edges on my cooking and
> relevant woodworking tools and those of several friends are immaculate.
>
> The point I was making about flatness was in relation to kitchen knives,
> which I was assuming that the original poster was intending to be the only
> thing they were sharpening. In this case, the stone does not need to be flat
> to work correctly as it does with woodworking tools.
>
> John
>
>
>
>

Well we'll agree to disagree. It wouldn't kill you to flatten the stone
occasionally.
--
================================================== =====
"We ride and never worry about the fall...............
I guess that's just the Cowboy in us all," Tim McGraw.
================================================== =====

> > The point I was making about flatness was in relation to kitchen knives,
> > which I was assuming that the original poster was intending to be the
only
> > thing they were sharpening. In this case, the stone does not need to be
flat
> > to work correctly as it does with woodworking tools.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Well we'll agree to disagree. It wouldn't kill you to flatten the stone
> occasionally.

But I do agree completly in the case of woodworking tools or anything else
the requires a flat sharpening surface. I do flatten the stones regularly.
both stones are as flat as could be and working perfectly. The only
difference is our methods of flattening and storage. For which I belive we
are both right.

John