points to ponder:

1. Were chickens in the old days "Free Range or Cage Free"?
2. When did food stop being organic?
3. Were spices used to mask (cover-up) spoiled food?
4. Does nature genetically modify foods?
5. Why did Ale stop being a breakfast drink?
6. Do we really like turkey of just the taste of poultry seasoning?
7. Was the first person to eat an artichoke starving?
8. When reading the old testament it occurred to me that God must love
the smell of barbeque, True?
9. Did the Dutch really invent the Dutch Oven.
10. Does salad really come from the French word for "salted"?

More?
--
Dimitri

Searing

http://kitchenguide.wordpress.com.

> 2. * *When did food stop being organic?

> 6. * *Do we really like turkey of just the taste of poultry seasoning?

We really like just the taste of the sage-flavored stuffing.

> 7. * *Was the first person to eat an artichoke starving?

Or clams? Or Crayfish? Lobsters? Shrimp?


I still constantly wonder at what "organic design" is - in any genre.
WTF does that mean, anyway?

N.

On Jan 8, 9:48*am, "Dimitri" > wrote:
> points to ponder:
>
> 1. * *Were chickens in the old days "Free Range or Cage Free"?
> 2. * *When did food stop being organic?
> 3. * *Were spices used to mask (cover-up) spoiled food?
> 4. * *Does nature genetically modify foods?
> 5. * *Why did Ale stop being a breakfast drink?
> 6. * *Do we really like turkey of just the taste of poultry seasoning?
> 7. * *Was the first person to eat an artichoke starving?
> 8. * *When reading the old testament it occurred to me that God must love
> the smell of barbeque, True?
> 9. * *Did the Dutch really invent the Dutch Oven.
> 10. *Does salad really come from the French word for "salted"?
>
> More?
> --
> Dimitri
>
> Searing
>
> http://kitchenguide.wordpress.com.

or a question could be: how was food preserved before the wide-spread
use of the ice box, and then electric or gas refrigerators (remember
the servel?)

1.. chickens were in the yard and had to scrounge for themselves on
whatever was there.

2. of course spices were used to mask the flavor, and taste of food
that had become very, very gamy (to the modern way of thinking)

8. absolutely. wonder if spices were also used by the priests.

more questions please.

harriet & critters in warm azusa

On Jan 8, 9:48*am, "Dimitri" > wrote:
> points to ponder:

> 9. * *Did the Dutch really invent the Dutch Oven.
No, as per Alton Brown, it was named after the man who first made one
"public."
....Picky

Dimitri wrote:
>
> 1. Were chickens in the old days "Free Range or Cage Free"?

In the old days they were pteradons and they carried off unwary small
children. We hunted them down with clubs. Clubs don't work all that
great against critters that fly. That's why we had to domesticate the
critters.

> 2. When did food stop being organic?

Salt is food. Salt is not organic. So that happened a really long time
ago. QED.

> 3. Were spices used to mask (cover-up) spoiled food?

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So spice that pickle
juice early.

> 4. Does nature genetically modify foods?

That didn't start happening until Darwin figured it out!

> 5. Why did Ale stop being a breakfast drink?

It did? Right! Somewhere after college, somewhere before getting
married.

> 6. Do we really like turkey of just the taste of poultry seasoning?

Chortle. That's for the folks who want the white meat. I'll go with
the thigh meat that has flavor.

> 7. Was the first person to eat an artichoke starving?

Or crazy. But that's nothing compared to making tequila out of wormy
cactus. Or leaving fish to rot and calling it luktefisk.

> 8. When reading the old testament it occurred to me that God must love
> the smell of barbeque, True?

Actually, that's the Illiad more than the Old Testament. Achilles
putting the fat into the fire so the smoke would rise to Olympus.

We moderns know that the god(desse)s don't have physical bodies so they
are actually sharing our experiences not actually doing the smelling
themselves. So you dam betcha the god(desse)s love the smell of que as
much as I do.

> 9. Did the Dutch really invent the Dutch Oven.

And why do the Pennsylvania Dutch speak German not Dutch?

> 10. Does salad really come from the French word for "salted"?

It does?

> More?

How did Vikings get Spam to eat when Hormel had not yet been granted a
corporate charter? Bloody Vikings!

Tack is the stuff used to ride horses. No wonder sailors never liked
hard tack.

Goat cheese, apple cider, baby food, pork sausage, spinach soufle'.
Which one of these does not go with the others?

I'm wheat intolerant - Foods made with wheat give me indigestion and a
bunch of other symptoms. When I eat Krispy Kreme donuts I don't get
indigestion or any of the other symptoms (except breaking out in fat,
sigh). What does that say about the quality of ingredients used by
Krispy Kreme?

PickyJaz wrote:
> On Jan 8, 9:48*am, "Dimitri" > wrote:
>
>>points to ponder:
>
>
>>9. * *Did the Dutch really invent the Dutch Oven.
>
> No, as per Alton Brown, it was named after the man who first made one
> "public."
> ...Picky

Who is credited with the first, primitive, pressure cooker? At least
according to MFK Fisher.
--

Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.

Domine, dirige nos.
Let the games begin!
http://fredeeky.typepad.com/fredeeky.../sf_anthem.mp3

Dimitri wrote:
>
> points to ponder:
>
> 1. Were chickens in the old days "Free Range or Cage Free"?

On many farms they were. Individual coops cost money; cheaper to let
them roam free and have a place for them to spend the night.

> 2. When did food stop being organic?

Depends on one's definition of organic. Food is made of carbon, oxygen,
nitrogen and hydrogen. Therefore it's all organic n'est-ce pas?

> 3. Were spices used to mask (cover-up) spoiled food?

Never. Our ancestors knew perfectly well that foods past their prime
could cause illness. They didn't know why of course. That's why they
developed methods to preserve foods. Spices were luxuries for a very
long time, used to display one's wealth and status. They would never
have been wasted on food that was obviously 'bad'.

> 4. Does nature genetically modify foods?

Yes of course. Any time pollen from one plant enters the ovum of
another, there is genetic modification. Same when any two random
male-female pairs of the same species mate.

> 5. Why did Ale stop being a breakfast drink?

It hasn't for some of my acquaintances

> 6. Do we really like turkey of just the taste of poultry seasoning?

Not fond of either.

> 7. Was the first person to eat an artichoke starving?

Difficult to say.

> 8. When reading the old testament it occurred to me that God must love
> the smell of barbeque, True?

Now that's just plain silly LOL.

> 9. Did the Dutch really invent the Dutch Oven.

The true 'Dutch Oven', which is a contraption for cooking meat before an
open fire, probably was invented by the Dutch. It is a way of saving
fuel by reflecting heat. The heavy pot that is now known as a Dutch Oven
occurs in a lot of different places and probably isn't any more Dutch
than it is Chinese.


> 10. Does salad really come from the French word for "salted"?
>

It probably does, but from the Latin first, then into French.

Arri London wrote:
>>3. Were spices used to mask (cover-up) spoiled food?
>
>
> Never. Our ancestors knew perfectly well that foods past their prime
> could cause illness. They didn't know why of course. That's why they
> developed methods to preserve foods. Spices were luxuries for a very
> long time, used to display one's wealth and status. They would never
> have been wasted on food that was obviously 'bad'.

I don't know where your getting your information but i you are way off.

Most peasants ate better than aristocrats simply because they produced
their own food. The aristos used to use all sorts of spices to cover up
the unpleasant taste of rotting food. "Hung meats" are just one example
of food that was allowed to rot before it was consumed.

Louis XIV of France once commented that the only time he got hot food
was when he was in camp and with his army. The kitchens at Versailles
were, counting all the twists and turns of the palace about a mile away
from where Louis dined.

Red Escoffiers biography or MFK Fishers translation of Brillant Savarins
"The Physiology of Taste" or the article on "hung meat" in the Larusse
Gastronomique. What do you think got Louis Pasture motivated to make
his discoveries?
--

Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.

Domine, dirige nos.
Let the games begin!
http://fredeeky.typepad.com/fredeeky.../sf_anthem.mp3

On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 17:04:43 -0800, "Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq."
> wrote:

>
>
>Arri London wrote:
>>>3. Were spices used to mask (cover-up) spoiled food?
>>
>>
>> Never. Our ancestors knew perfectly well that foods past their prime
>> could cause illness. They didn't know why of course. That's why they
>> developed methods to preserve foods. Spices were luxuries for a very
>> long time, used to display one's wealth and status. They would never
>> have been wasted on food that was obviously 'bad'.
>
>I don't know where your getting your information but i you are way off.
>
>Most peasants ate better than aristocrats simply because they produced
>their own food. The aristos used to use all sorts of spices to cover up
>the unpleasant taste of rotting food. "Hung meats" are just one example
>of food that was allowed to rot before it was consumed.
>
>Louis XIV of France once commented that the only time he got hot food
>was when he was in camp and with his army. The kitchens at Versailles
>were, counting all the twists and turns of the palace about a mile away
>from where Louis dined.
>
>Red Escoffiers biography or MFK Fishers translation of Brillant Savarins
>"The Physiology of Taste" or the article on "hung meat" in the Larusse
>Gastronomique. What do you think got Louis Pasture motivated to make
>his discoveries?

I had no idea palace kitchens were so far away, JL. Live and learn.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

sf wrote:
> "Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq." wrote:
>
>>
>>Louis XIV of France once commented that the only time he got hot food
>>was when he was in camp and with his army. The kitchens at Versailles
>>were, counting all the twists and turns of the palace about a mile away
>>from where Louis dined.
>
> I had no idea palace kitchens were so far away, JL. Live and learn.
>

In Louis XIV's (1600's) case they were in a separate building from the
palace of Versailles in the "grand commune" a big building to the east
of Versailles. And the food was often delayed by the courtiers having to
ceremonially 'salute the kings meat' if they met it on its elaborately
choreographed progress to him from the kitchens, and that's not even
counting the elaborate ceremony of serving the king. Even Queen Victoria
complained about it at Buckingham palace in the late 1800's.

When the present Queen of England came to the throne in 1952 one of the
first things Prince Philip (her husband) did was to have "kitchenettes"
installed in the private quarters of both Buckingham palace and Windsor
castle. The Queen don't cook but Philip does and according to gossip
has a fascination with kitchen 'gadgets'. But supposedly it irked him
to have to call a footman, order a sandwich and coffee and have to waite
an hour or more for it, but then he also likes to cook family breakfasts
and is an avid BBQ'er.

--

Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.

Domine, dirige nos.
Let the games begin!
http://fredeeky.typepad.com/fredeeky.../sf_anthem.mp3

Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq. wrote:

> When the present Queen of England came to the throne in 1952 one of
> the first things Prince Philip (her husband) did was to have
> "kitchenettes" installed in the private quarters of both Buckingham
> palace and Windsor castle. The Queen don't cook but Philip does and
> according to gossip has a fascination with kitchen 'gadgets'. But
> supposedly it irked him to have to call a footman, order a sandwich
> and coffee and have to waite an hour or more for it, but then he also
> likes to cook family breakfasts and is an avid BBQ'er.

Good for him. Seems it was quite common a hundred and more years ago to
have the kitchen set apart from the rest of the house. It was often done
because of the need for chimneys, firewood, water from the well. Even a
mansion would only be 50 feet or so, between eating and coking not the
distance of the castles mentioned.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq. wrote:
>
>
>>When the present Queen of England came to the throne in 1952 one of
>>the first things Prince Philip (her husband) did was to have
>>"kitchenettes" installed in the private quarters of both Buckingham
>>palace and Windsor castle. The Queen don't cook but Philip does and
>>according to gossip has a fascination with kitchen 'gadgets'. But
>>supposedly it irked him to have to call a footman, order a sandwich
>>and coffee and have to waite an hour or more for it, but then he also
>>likes to cook family breakfasts and is an avid BBQ'er.
>
>
> Good for him. Seems it was quite common a hundred and more years ago to
> have the kitchen set apart from the rest of the house. It was often done
> because of the need for chimneys, firewood, water from the well. Even a
> mansion would only be 50 feet or so, between eating and coking not the
> distance of the castles mentioned.
>
>

Yep, even Gen. George Washington's home, Mount Vernon has its cooking
facilities, still room & etc. in separate "out" buildings. And that ws
as much for safety reasons as anything else, like the smells of the
kitchen penetrating the rest of the house.

I read a bit of gossip once that Prince philip got hold of an American
"electric skillet" and proceeded to cook sausages in the private
quarters for the family breakfast at Buckingham palace.

Later that evening there was a full blown white tie and tails formal
diplomatic "State" function at Buckingham palace and the smell of
sausages still lingering in the air elicited a rather sharp comment from
the Queen to her husband on the subject of his indulging his hobby in
the palace.

Breakfast meats are now cooked in the kitchen basement in the south wing
of the palace. About as far away as one can get from the state rooms of
the palace, and that, with industrial grade ventilation to keep cooking
aromas from penetrating the rest of the palace.

--

Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.

Domine, dirige nos.
Let the games begin!
http://fredeeky.typepad.com/fredeeky.../sf_anthem.mp3

On Jan 9, 1:59*am, "critters & me in azusa, ca" >
wrote:
> On Jan 8, 9:48*am, "Dimitri" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > points to ponder:
>
> > 1. * *Were chickens in the old days "Free Range or Cage Free"?
> > 2. * *When did food stop being organic?
> > 3. * *Were spices used to mask (cover-up) spoiled food?
> > 4. * *Does nature genetically modify foods?
> > 5. * *Why did Ale stop being a breakfast drink?
> > 6. * *Do we really like turkey of just the taste of poultry seasoning?
> > 7. * *Was the first person to eat an artichoke starving?
> > 8. * *When reading the old testament it occurred to me that God must love
> > the smell of barbeque, True?
> > 9. * *Did the Dutch really invent the Dutch Oven.
> > 10. *Does salad really come from the French word for "salted"?
>
> > More?
> > --
> > Dimitri
>
> > Searing
>
> >http://kitchenguide.wordpress.com.
>
> or a question could be: *how was food preserved before the wide-spread
> use of the ice box, and then electric or gas refrigerators (remember
> the servel?)
>
> 1.. chickens were in the yard and had to scrounge for themselves on
> whatever was there.

I was watching a cooking show recently. The chef was featuring some
free range chicken and stated that they had a completely vegetarian
diet. What a crock. Any free range chicken is definitely not
vegetarian. They eat anything that moves.

JB


<snip>

On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:56:31 -0700, Arri London >
wrote:

>
>
>sf wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 17:04:43 -0800, "Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq."
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >Arri London wrote:
>> >>>3. Were spices used to mask (cover-up) spoiled food?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Never. Our ancestors knew perfectly well that foods past their prime
>> >> could cause illness. They didn't know why of course. That's why they
>> >> developed methods to preserve foods. Spices were luxuries for a very
>> >> long time, used to display one's wealth and status. They would never
>> >> have been wasted on food that was obviously 'bad'.
>> >
>> >I don't know where your getting your information but i you are way off.
>> >
>> >Most peasants ate better than aristocrats simply because they produced
>> >their own food. The aristos used to use all sorts of spices to cover up
>> >the unpleasant taste of rotting food. "Hung meats" are just one example
>> >of food that was allowed to rot before it was consumed.
>> >
>> >Louis XIV of France once commented that the only time he got hot food
>> >was when he was in camp and with his army. The kitchens at Versailles
>> >were, counting all the twists and turns of the palace about a mile away
>> >from where Louis dined.
>> >
>> >Red Escoffiers biography or MFK Fishers translation of Brillant Savarins
>> >"The Physiology of Taste" or the article on "hung meat" in the Larusse
>> >Gastronomique. What do you think got Louis Pasture motivated to make
>> >his discoveries?
>>
>> I had no idea palace kitchens were so far away, JL. Live and learn.
>>
>>
>
>All large households, not just palaces. Same in monasteries, manor
>houses etc. Just made perfect sense to avoid the fire hazard, which was
>real and daily.

That part, I already knew and understood... it's just the distance
that's mind boggling.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Arri London wrote:

> sf wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 17:04:43 -0800, "Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq."
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Arri London wrote:
>>>>> 3. Were spices used to mask (cover-up) spoiled food?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Never. Our ancestors knew perfectly well that foods past their
>>>> prime could cause illness. They didn't know why of course. That's
>>>> why they developed methods to preserve foods. Spices were luxuries
>>>> for a very long time, used to display one's wealth and status.
>>>> They would never have been wasted on food that was obviously 'bad'.
>>>
>>> I don't know where your getting your information but i you are way
>>> off.
>>>
>>> Most peasants ate better than aristocrats simply because they
>>> produced their own food. The aristos used to use all sorts of
>>> spices to cover up the unpleasant taste of rotting food. "Hung
>>> meats" are just one example of food that was allowed to rot before
>>> it was consumed.
>>>
>>> Louis XIV of France once commented that the only time he got hot
>>> food was when he was in camp and with his army. The kitchens at
>>> Versailles were, counting all the twists and turns of the palace
>>> about a mile away from where Louis dined.
>>>
>>> Red Escoffiers biography or MFK Fishers translation of Brillant
>>> Savarins "The Physiology of Taste" or the article on "hung meat" in
>>> the Larusse Gastronomique. What do you think got Louis Pasture
>>> motivated to make his discoveries?
>>
>> I had no idea palace kitchens were so far away, JL. Live and learn.
>>
>>
>
> All large households, not just palaces. Same in monasteries, manor
> houses etc. Just made perfect sense to avoid the fire hazard, which
> was real and daily.

This was true in some places in the early US, just visit any southern
plantation house...


--
Best
Greg

sf wrote:
>
> On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:56:31 -0700, Arri London >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >sf wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 17:04:43 -0800, "Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq."
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Arri London wrote:
> >> >>>3. Were spices used to mask (cover-up) spoiled food?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Never. Our ancestors knew perfectly well that foods past their prime
> >> >> could cause illness. They didn't know why of course. That's why they
> >> >> developed methods to preserve foods. Spices were luxuries for a very
> >> >> long time, used to display one's wealth and status. They would never
> >> >> have been wasted on food that was obviously 'bad'.
> >> >
> >> >I don't know where your getting your information but i you are way off.
> >> >
> >> >Most peasants ate better than aristocrats simply because they produced
> >> >their own food. The aristos used to use all sorts of spices to cover up
> >> >the unpleasant taste of rotting food. "Hung meats" are just one example
> >> >of food that was allowed to rot before it was consumed.
> >> >
> >> >Louis XIV of France once commented that the only time he got hot food
> >> >was when he was in camp and with his army. The kitchens at Versailles
> >> >were, counting all the twists and turns of the palace about a mile away
> >> >from where Louis dined.
> >> >
> >> >Red Escoffiers biography or MFK Fishers translation of Brillant Savarins
> >> >"The Physiology of Taste" or the article on "hung meat" in the Larusse
> >> >Gastronomique. What do you think got Louis Pasture motivated to make
> >> >his discoveries?
> >>
> >> I had no idea palace kitchens were so far away, JL. Live and learn.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >All large households, not just palaces. Same in monasteries, manor
> >houses etc. Just made perfect sense to avoid the fire hazard, which was
> >real and daily.
>
> That part, I already knew and understood... it's just the distance
> that's mind boggling.
>

That varied of course. Generally not as far away as mentioned above.
Have visited several sites where the kitchens were the equivalent of
just across the garden in terms of distance. Although never made it to
Versailles Of course in a cold nothern winter, that's all it would
take to cool food down. That's why our ancestors invented various
containers that would hold hot water to keep some foods warm on the
trip.