On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 07:20:15 +1100, Krypsis >
wrote:

>James Silverton wrote:
>> Krypsis wrote on Mon, 18 Jan 2010 06:55:41 +1100:
>>
>>> AD so you perceive saltiness on the its way out.
>>
>>> My wife, who is Asian, never uses added salt either in food
>>> during cooking or added at the table.
>>> My wife has sensitive taste buds and can detect even low
>>> levels of MSG.

So you admit that wife is afflicted with TIAD.

>> Does your wife use soy sauce? It's pretty salty!
>>
>Generally makes up her own sauces these days.

Yeah, right, you want us to believe that your ho brews her own pigeon
blood... GTF outta here.

Goomba wrote:
>> I never eat salted pretzels or any other overly salted snack food.
>> Neither does my sister in law now. She's been warned off such snack
>> foods by her doctor since her first stroke. Now tell me her doctor is
>> wrong!
>
> Umm... maybe he was just giving pat advice. There are more reasons for
> stroke then just hypertension. Did she have a history of hypertension
> before the stroke?

Many in the medical profession are very good at what they do, but not so
much on the dietary end of things. When the doctor wanted my wife to go to
a dietary class for CHF patients, I went with her. Some of the advice was
just plain silly.

On the list of food to avoid was milkshakes. When I asked why, they said it
was not good for you, too much fat. They later said it was OK to drink
milk. They also said it was OK to eat ice cream in moderation. They said
to avoid sausages too. I asked if I could make my own, they said no, for
the same reason. Too much fat, too much salt. I asked if it was OK to eat
ground or chopped beef and/or pork and they said yes. It was OK to season
it with herbs and spices. I asked about salt and they said minimal,
according to the guidelines for daily intake. Of course, me being me, had
to ask what happed if I take that meat and stuffed it into a casing. Why is
it suddenly bad? Same with the milk and ice cream together.

Most of the other advice as OK, such as avoiding processed foods, but that
was never a problem in our case. We seldom use them, but others do all the
time. Common sense though, meant nothing.

brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 07:20:15 +1100, Krypsis >
> wrote:
>
>> James Silverton wrote:
>>> Krypsis wrote on Mon, 18 Jan 2010 06:55:41 +1100:
>>>
>>>> AD so you perceive saltiness on the its way out.
>>>> My wife, who is Asian, never uses added salt either in food
>>>> during cooking or added at the table.
>>>> My wife has sensitive taste buds and can detect even low
>>>> levels of MSG.
>
> So you admit that wife is afflicted with TIAD.
>
>>> Does your wife use soy sauce? It's pretty salty!
>>>
>> Generally makes up her own sauces these days.
>
> Yeah, right, you want us to believe that your ho brews her own pigeon
> blood... GTF outta here.

Well, if naught else, you've proven that you are a particularly nasty
individual that can't counter anything I post with anything resembling a
reasoned argument.

Krypsis

On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 12:13:28 +1100, Krypsis >
wrote:

>brooklyn1 wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 07:20:15 +1100, Krypsis >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>> Krypsis wrote on Mon, 18 Jan 2010 06:55:41 +1100:
>>>>
>>>>> AD so you perceive saltiness on the its way out.
>>>>> My wife, who is Asian, never uses added salt either in food
>>>>> during cooking or added at the table.
>>>>> My wife has sensitive taste buds and can detect even low
>>>>> levels of MSG.
>>
>> So you admit that wife is afflicted with TIAD.
>>
>>>> Does your wife use soy sauce? It's pretty salty!
>>>>
>>> Generally makes up her own sauces these days.
>>
>> Yeah, right, you want us to believe that your ho brews her own pigeon
>> blood... GTF outta here.
>
>Well, if naught else, you've proven that you are a particularly nasty
>individual that can't counter anything I post with anything resembling a
>reasoned argument.
>
I don't waste my time and energy arguing with pinheads and liars the
likes of you, krypsis ignoranus.

On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 19:40:21 -0600, "Gregory Morrow"
> wrote:

>brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 12:13:28 +1100, Krypsis >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 07:20:15 +1100, Krypsis
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>>>> Krypsis wrote on Mon, 18 Jan 2010 06:55:41 +1100:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AD so you perceive saltiness on the its way out.
>>>>>>> My wife, who is Asian, never uses added salt either in food
>>>>>>> during cooking or added at the table.
>>>>>>> My wife has sensitive taste buds and can detect even low
>>>>>>> levels of MSG.
>>>>
>>>> So you admit that wife is afflicted with TIAD.
>>>>
>>>>>> Does your wife use soy sauce? It's pretty salty!
>>>>>>
>>>>> Generally makes up her own sauces these days.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, right, you want us to believe that your ho brews her own
>>>> pigeon blood... GTF outta here.
>>>
>>> Well, if naught else, you've proven that you are a particularly nasty
>>> individual that can't counter anything I post with anything
>>> resembling a reasoned argument.
>>>
>> I don't waste my time and energy arguing with pinheads and liars the
>> likes of you, krypsis ignoranus.
>
>
>Not only is krapcyst a newbie puke, but he's a *rank* noobie puke...!!!
>
><chuckle>

Easy to know krapcyst is a newbie POS... he thinks I'm nasty... he has
no idea what's nasty... I'M HIS WORST NIGHTMARE! <G>

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .

brooklyn1 wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 12:13:28 +1100, Krypsis >
> wrote:
>
>> brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 07:20:15 +1100, Krypsis
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>>> Krypsis wrote on Mon, 18 Jan 2010 06:55:41 +1100:
>>>>>
>>>>>> AD so you perceive saltiness on the its way out.
>>>>>> My wife, who is Asian, never uses added salt either in food
>>>>>> during cooking or added at the table.
>>>>>> My wife has sensitive taste buds and can detect even low
>>>>>> levels of MSG.
>>>
>>> So you admit that wife is afflicted with TIAD.
>>>
>>>>> Does your wife use soy sauce? It's pretty salty!
>>>>>
>>>> Generally makes up her own sauces these days.
>>>
>>> Yeah, right, you want us to believe that your ho brews her own
>>> pigeon blood... GTF outta here.
>>
>> Well, if naught else, you've proven that you are a particularly nasty
>> individual that can't counter anything I post with anything
>> resembling a reasoned argument.
>>
> I don't waste my time and energy arguing with pinheads and liars the
> likes of you, krypsis ignoranus.


Not only is krapcyst a newbie puke, but he's a *rank* noobie puke...!!!

<chuckle>


--
Best
Greg

brooklyn1 wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 19:40:21 -0600, "Gregory Morrow"
> > wrote:
>
>> brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 12:13:28 +1100, Krypsis
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 07:20:15 +1100, Krypsis
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>>>>> Krypsis wrote on Mon, 18 Jan 2010 06:55:41 +1100:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> AD so you perceive saltiness on the its way out.
>>>>>>>> My wife, who is Asian, never uses added salt either in food
>>>>>>>> during cooking or added at the table.
>>>>>>>> My wife has sensitive taste buds and can detect even low
>>>>>>>> levels of MSG.
>>>>>
>>>>> So you admit that wife is afflicted with TIAD.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does your wife use soy sauce? It's pretty salty!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Generally makes up her own sauces these days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, right, you want us to believe that your ho brews her own
>>>>> pigeon blood... GTF outta here.
>>>>
>>>> Well, if naught else, you've proven that you are a particularly
>>>> nasty individual that can't counter anything I post with anything
>>>> resembling a reasoned argument.
>>>>
>>> I don't waste my time and energy arguing with pinheads and liars the
>>> likes of you, krypsis ignoranus.
>>
>>
>> Not only is krapcyst a newbie puke, but he's a *rank* noobie
>> puke...!!!
>>
>> <chuckle>
>
> Easy to know krapcyst is a newbie POS... he thinks I'm nasty... he has
> no idea what's nasty... I'M HIS WORST NIGHTMARE! <G>
>
> Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .


Lol...

His wife unit is also no doubt "rank"...but in a "different"
way...EEEEWWW...!!!


--
Best
Greg

"" wrote:
>
> Over the years, I was told;
> "Salt at the table... not at the cookstove"
>
> The rationale being that the diners could
> add the amount of salt ( and pepper )
> that suited them.
>
> But shows on the Food Network show cooks
> adding salt by the hand-fuls. ???
>
> Has something changed ?
>
> Do YOU salt at the stove, or leave it to the eaters ?


We salt while cooking. However, most of the people who eat with us add
salt to their portions. So clearly we don't salt enough for their tastes

On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 20:39:44 -0500, brooklyn1 wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 19:40:21 -0600, "Gregory Morrow"
> > wrote:
>
>>brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 12:13:28 +1100, Krypsis >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 07:20:15 +1100, Krypsis
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>>>>> Krypsis wrote on Mon, 18 Jan 2010 06:55:41 +1100:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> AD so you perceive saltiness on the its way out.
>>>>>>>> My wife, who is Asian, never uses added salt either in food
>>>>>>>> during cooking or added at the table.
>>>>>>>> My wife has sensitive taste buds and can detect even low
>>>>>>>> levels of MSG.
>>>>>
>>>>> So you admit that wife is afflicted with TIAD.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does your wife use soy sauce? It's pretty salty!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Generally makes up her own sauces these days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, right, you want us to believe that your ho brews her own
>>>>> pigeon blood... GTF outta here.
>>>>
>>>> Well, if naught else, you've proven that you are a particularly nasty
>>>> individual that can't counter anything I post with anything
>>>> resembling a reasoned argument.
>>>>
>>> I don't waste my time and energy arguing with pinheads and liars the
>>> likes of you, krypsis ignoranus.
>>
>>
>>Not only is krapcyst a newbie puke, but he's a *rank* noobie puke...!!!
>>
>><chuckle>
>
> Easy to know krapcyst is a newbie POS... he thinks I'm nasty... he has
> no idea what's nasty... I'M HIS WORST NIGHTMARE! <G>
>
> Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .

shee-it. you're a dried up, impotent old man whose insults seldom rise
above grade-school wit.

do continue to think of yourself as a usenet warrior though. it's pretty
goddamn funny.

blake

On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 07:00:48 +1100, Krypsis wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 02:05:23 +1100, Krypsis wrote:
>>
>>> brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>> <RJ> wrote:
>>>>> Over the years, I was told;
>>>>> "Salt at the table... not at the cookstove"
>>>>>
>>>>> The rationale being that the diners could
>>>>> add the amount of salt ( and pepper )
>>>>> that suited them.
>>>>>
>>>>> But shows on the Food Network show cooks
>>>>> adding salt by the hand-fuls. ???
>>>>>> Has something changed ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do YOU salt at the stove, or leave it to the eaters ?
>>>> I'll use salt in cooking water where the water gets dumped (pasta,
>>>> potatoes, etc.) butI rarely cook with salt directly in food dishes...
>>>> I use MSG. MSG has eight times the flavor enhancing ability of salt.
>>>> By weight MSG contains 60% less sodium than salt. One small pinch of
>>>> MSG enhances flavor more than a full tsp of regular table salt, or
>>>> more than 2 tsps of kosher salt.
>>>>
>>> That may be so but MSG has its share of health issues which are becoming
>>> quite well known and documented.
>>> First learn who is pushing the MSG bandwagon. Then you will begin to
>>> understand why it has such widespread use.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txiVDY-prk4
>>>
>>> http://www.blessedquietness.com/Jour...eworld/msg.htm
>>>
>>> Krypsis
>>
>> omgomg!!! we're all gonna die!!!
>>
>> blake
>
> Eventually!
>
> None of us will get out of here alive!
>
> I just want a lot more life than our allotted three score and ten. Since
> I am 71 now, I'd prefer that to be a whole lot more! ;-)
>
> Krypsis

if you've made it to seventy-one, i can't knock your program. hope you
continue to succeed.

your pal,
blake

In article >,
"<RJ>" > wrote:

> Over the years, I was told;
> "Salt at the table... not at the cookstove"
>
> The rationale being that the diners could
> add the amount of salt ( and pepper )
> that suited them.
>
> But shows on the Food Network show cooks
> adding salt by the hand-fuls. ???
>
> Has something changed ?
>
> Do YOU salt at the stove, or leave it to the eaters ?

Salt is a VERY addictive substance, on a psychological level. Our
bodies are wired to crave some salt as a necessary component of
survival. But salt is a cheap flavor, and adding more salt can
intensify a tangible flavor cheaply, so more salt means more salty
flavor without a lot of cost.

But real flavor is far more complex, and the spices, aromatics and other
components needed to create these flavors cost much more than salt. And
in these complexities, you will lose some who don't care for this flavor
or that. Very few will rebuke something as too salty (I am among those
few).

A co-worker was diagnosed with high blood pressure. I persuaded him to
go with his doctor's salt free diet requirement, and after three months,
he now finds food as good as ever, and fast foods are so salty it "salt
burns" his tongue. It was simply a matter of getting past his salt
addiction.

Someone in this thread said they have a hard time finding a salt shaker
in their house. I can do that one better, because I have NO salt
shakers. If a guest request salt at the table, I get a small ramekin
and put about a teaspoon of salt in it for that person. I keep salt on
hand for baking purpose primarily. I will admit to uses on a couple
mexican recipes and similar, but in the last month, I have only gotten
the salt out once, and that was for chocolate chip cookies.

jt

In article >,
"James Silverton" > wrote:

> Does your wife use soy sauce? It's pretty salty!

Trader Joe's Soy Sauce is the lowest salt soy sauce I have found since
Aroguso's Low Sodium disappeared. Being so low in salt, you can
actually taste the natural woodiness of the soy, which is a wonderful
flavor.

jt

jt august > wrote:

>Trader Joe's Soy Sauce is the lowest salt soy sauce I have found since
>Aroguso's Low Sodium disappeared. Being so low in salt, you can
>actually taste the natural woodiness of the soy, which is a wonderful
>flavor.

How does it compare in sodium level to San-J low sodium organic
tamari ?

Steve

jt august wrote:
> In article >,
> "<RJ>" > wrote:
>
>> Over the years, I was told;
>> "Salt at the table... not at the cookstove"
>>
>> The rationale being that the diners could
>> add the amount of salt ( and pepper )
>> that suited them.
>>
>> But shows on the Food Network show cooks
>> adding salt by the hand-fuls. ???
>>
>> Has something changed ?
>>
>> Do YOU salt at the stove, or leave it to the eaters ?
>
> Salt is a VERY addictive substance, on a psychological level. Our
> bodies are wired to crave some salt as a necessary component of
> survival. But salt is a cheap flavor, and adding more salt can
> intensify a tangible flavor cheaply, so more salt means more salty
> flavor without a lot of cost.

If I may, I'd like to interject a bit, without disagreeing with what you are
saying. Salt is far more than a flavor. It is a substances which also
enhances 'good' flavors, and minimizes -- softens if you will --- the 'bad'
flavors. Go to chapter 24 of Molecular Gastronomy, in the PDF below:
http://tinyurl.com/ycts4qt

--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan

Dave wrote on Sun, 24 Jan 2010 13:30:03 -0800:

> jt august wrote:
>> In article >,
>> "<RJ>" > wrote:
>>
>>> Over the years, I was told;
>>> "Salt at the table... not at the cookstove"
>>>
>>> The rationale being that the diners could
>>> add the amount of salt ( and pepper )
>>> that suited them.
>>>
>>> But shows on the Food Network show cooks
>>> adding salt by the hand-fuls. ???
>>>
>>> Has something changed ?
>>>
>>> Do YOU salt at the stove, or leave it to the eaters ?
>>
>> Salt is a VERY addictive substance, on a psychological level.
>> Our bodies are wired to crave some salt as a necessary
>> component of survival. But salt is a cheap flavor, and
>> adding more salt can intensify a tangible flavor cheaply, so more
>> salt means more salty flavor without a lot of cost.

> If I may, I'd like to interject a bit, without disagreeing
> with what you are saying. Salt is far more than a flavor. It
> is a substances which also enhances 'good' flavors, and
> minimizes -- softens if you will --- the 'bad' flavors. Go to chapter
> 24 of Molecular Gastronomy, in the PDF below:
> http://tinyurl.com/ycts4qt

You might well obtain enough salt from your regular diet without adding
extra salt but *you do need salt*. It's not an addictive chemical :-)

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 17:21:25 -0500, "James Silverton"
> wrote:


>
>You might well obtain enough salt from your regular diet without adding
>extra salt but *you do need salt*. It's not an addictive chemical :-)


Addictive may not be exactly correct, perhaps it is building a
tolerance over time. I see many people loading up on salt far beyond
what you need to enhance flavor. These people have either destroyed
their taste buds or prefer the taste of salt to the taste of what they
are eating.

Sure, taste is subjective and personal, but you can easily go far
beyond what 99.9% of people think is normal. Myself, I use very
little and often think commercial things like sausage ,and some brands
of snack foods are too heavily salted,

On 25/01/2010 2:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 17:21:25 -0500, "James Silverton"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>
>> You might well obtain enough salt from your regular diet without adding
>> extra salt but *you do need salt*. It's not an addictive chemical :-)
>
Yes indeed and you can get ALL you need from fresh food without adding
any either in the cooking or at the table.
>
> Addictive may not be exactly correct, perhaps it is building a
> tolerance over time.

Addictive is not entirely wrong. What actually happens is that your
taste buds adapt to the flavours to which they are subjected. If you are
to give salted snacks to a baby, you will get rejection on a grand
scale. But, as that baby matures into an adult and has been given a
range of salty foods over its life, you will find the palate adapting
and a "tolerance" building up. The "tolerance" only applies to taste
however. The human body itself cannot adapt to excesses of salt over an
average lifetime. Excesses of salt early on lead to severe problems
later in life leading to high blood pressure, strokes and heart attacks.
If you want to see an example of palate adaptation, open a jar of baby
food and try it for taste. To the average adult, the baby food will be
incredibly bland as the adult palate will have adapted to a much saltier
diet. To the baby however, it's a taste treat. New, unadulterated taste
buds that haven't been corrupted by our western diets will be quite
satisfied by baby food.

Part of the addiction process is seen as a build up of tolerance over a
period of time. That is why alcoholics and drug addicts crave ever
stronger doses of their "toxin of choice".


> I see many people loading up on salt far beyond
> what you need to enhance flavor. These people have either destroyed
> their taste buds or prefer the taste of salt to the taste of what they
> are eating.

taste buds are never destroyed. They merely adapt to the high levels of
stimulation. Since the life span of a typical taste bud is four to five
weeks, that is how long it takes to reprogram the palate to a different
diet. If you reduce your salt intake to 120 mg per 100 Gms of food, your
palate will adjust to the new taste level. The rub here is that you
would need to prepare ALL your food from fresh ingredients and use
practically no processed foods.

All processed foods have high levels of salt to prolong shelf life. Even
the milk in my fridge has a relatively high level of salt in it. You
would need to ask why milk, of all things, would need added salt. When I
was much younger, milk was delivered fresh from the churn and ladled
into our own containers. Even with refridgeration, milk then was lucky
to last 2 or 3 days. It didn't matter however as fress milk was
delivered to the front door daily so you ordered as much as you would
need for that day. Now the milk will last in the fridge for 10 days or
more.
If you live near a dairy farm, go see if you can get some fresh milk
straight from the cow. You will soon see that it is loaded with taste.
Why then is the stuff you buy at the supermarket so bland? Didn't it
come from a cow? So what's happened to it that it requires salt for
added taste???
>
> Sure, taste is subjective and personal, but you can easily go far
> beyond what 99.9% of people think is normal. Myself, I use very

What people see as normal is what they have adapted to over their lives.
99.9% of "westernised" people wouldn't know "normal" if it smacked them
in the face. They have been so indoctrinated to a high salt diet that
anything salt free is also taste free. Their taste buds are no longer
sensitive enough to register.

> little and often think commercial things like sausage ,and some brands
> of snack foods are too heavily salted,

Snack foods are laced with 10 - 15 times more salt than is needed for a
healthy diet. I avoid them like the plague these days. Had my BP checked
last Friday and was told I have the BP of a 30 year old. Since I'm 71, I
take that as a compliment.
My neighbour, also 71, always cooks his food from fresh ingredients and
rarely adds any salt. His one vice is Chinese take away on Thursday, his
golf day. He too has the BP of a 30 year old.

Krypsis

On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 01:58:37 +1100, Krypsis wrote:
>
> What people see as normal is what they have adapted to over their lives.
> 99.9% of "westernised" people wouldn't know "normal" if it smacked them
> in the face.

um, wait. what 99.9% of westernized people experience is not 'normal'?
must be a new definition.

your pal,
blake

blake wrote on Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:06:38 -0500:

> On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 01:58:37 +1100, Krypsis wrote:
>>
>> What people see as normal is what they have adapted to over
>> their lives. 99.9% of "westernised" people wouldn't know
>> "normal" if it smacked them in the face.

> um, wait. what 99.9% of westernized people experience is not
> 'normal'? must be a new definition.

Perhaps, it's like those mid twentieth century sex manuals where the
author, usually alleged to be a physician, implied that however he
personally did something was "normal".

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On 26/01/2010 6:06 AM, blake murphy wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 01:58:37 +1100, Krypsis wrote:
>>
>> What people see as normal is what they have adapted to over their lives.
>> 99.9% of "westernised" people wouldn't know "normal" if it smacked them
>> in the face.
>
> um, wait. what 99.9% of westernized people experience is not 'normal'?

Spot on!

> must be a new definition.

The westernised diet is a "redefinition" of normal. What is "normal" is
what our body is genetically equipped to cope with. Salt laden processed
foods do not constitute a "normal" diet for humans regardless of whether
you think it is. Fresh fruit, vegetables and meat, untainted with salt,
is a normal and natural diet for us. Sure, our taste buds adapt to the
higher salt levels but our body, in general, does not. If you drop down
to a natural diet, a raft of modern day health problems disappear.

http://www.saltmatters.org/site/uplo...2025+table.pdf

As the saying goes, "It's your funeral!"

Krypsis

On Jan 25, 8:16*pm, Krypsis > wrote:
> On 26/01/2010 6:06 AM, blake murphy wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 01:58:37 +1100, Krypsis wrote:
>
> >> What people see as normal is what they have adapted to over their lives.
> >> 99.9% of "westernised" people wouldn't know "normal" if it smacked them
> >> in the face.
>
> > um, wait. *what 99.9% of westernized people experience is not 'normal'?
>
> Spot on!
>
> > must be a new definition.
>
> The westernised diet is a "redefinition" of normal. What is "normal" is
> what our body is genetically equipped to cope with. Salt laden processed
> foods do not constitute a "normal" diet for humans regardless of whether
> you think it is. Fresh fruit, vegetables and meat, untainted with salt,
> is a normal and natural diet for us. Sure, our taste buds adapt to the
> higher salt levels but our body, in general, does not. If you drop down
> to a natural diet, a raft of modern day health problems disappear.
>
> http://www.saltmatters.org/site/uplo...2025+table.pdf
>
> As the saying goes, "It's your funeral!"
>
> Krypsis

Christ, my grandmother ate all kinds of crap, including a ton of
salt. She
diet of sepsis at 92, and would probably still be alive if she hadn't
made the
fatal error of going to the hospital, where she contracted the
infection.

For most people, eating salt isn't a problem. Just over half of
hypertensive
people are salt-sensitive; about 26% of non-hypertensives are salt-
sensitive.
Almost 1/3 of the population has hypertension. So, if I've done the
math,
and if the figures I googled are correct, about 2/3 of the entire
population is
not salt sensitive.

DON'T PANIC! SALT IS PROBABLY NOT GOING TO KILL YOU.

Of course, it's prudent to have your blood pressure checked regularly.
I do. Still somewhere between 110/70 and 120/80, depending on whether
some idiot cut me off in traffic on the way to the doctor's.

Cindy Hamilton

On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:16:34 +1100, Krypsis wrote:

> On 26/01/2010 6:06 AM, blake murphy wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 01:58:37 +1100, Krypsis wrote:
>>>
>>> What people see as normal is what they have adapted to over their lives.
>>> 99.9% of "westernised" people wouldn't know "normal" if it smacked them
>>> in the face.
>>
>> um, wait. what 99.9% of westernized people experience is not 'normal'?
>
> Spot on!
>
>> must be a new definition.
>
> The westernised diet is a "redefinition" of normal. What is "normal" is
> what our body is genetically equipped to cope with. Salt laden processed
> foods do not constitute a "normal" diet for humans regardless of whether
> you think it is. Fresh fruit, vegetables and meat, untainted with salt,
> is a normal and natural diet for us. Sure, our taste buds adapt to the
> higher salt levels but our body, in general, does not. If you drop down
> to a natural diet, a raft of modern day health problems disappear.

maybe so, maybe not. it still doesn't mean that what '99.9% of westernized
people' experience is not 'normal.'

blake

On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 06:35:28 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> Christ, my grandmother ate all kinds of crap, including a ton of
> salt. She
> diet of sepsis at 92, and would probably still be alive if she hadn't
> made the
> fatal error of going to the hospital, where she contracted the
> infection.
>
> For most people, eating salt isn't a problem. Just over half of
> hypertensive
> people are salt-sensitive; about 26% of non-hypertensives are salt-
> sensitive.
> Almost 1/3 of the population has hypertension. So, if I've done the
> math,
> and if the figures I googled are correct, about 2/3 of the entire
> population is
> not salt sensitive.
>
> DON'T PANIC! SALT IS PROBABLY NOT GOING TO KILL YOU.
>
> Of course, it's prudent to have your blood pressure checked regularly.
> I do. Still somewhere between 110/70 and 120/80, depending on whether
> some idiot cut me off in traffic on the way to the doctor's.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

i thought that for the vast majority of people salt was taken off the 'bad
guy' list for blood pressure.

one thing amuses me about tales from folks who have sharply reduced their
salt intake: many, many, many say it renders restaurant or commercially
prepared food 'inedible.' i know that's not the intent, but it seems a
pretty dire side effect.

(note: i don't dispute that it's a medical necessity for some; not as many
as you would think, though. and yes, salt can be overdone.)

your pal,
blake

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> OKrypsis > wrote:
>
>> The westernised diet is a "redefinition" of normal. What is "normal" is
>> what our body is genetically equipped to cope with. Salt laden processed
>> foods do not constitute a "normal" diet for humans regardless of whether
>> you think it is. Fresh fruit, vegetables and meat, untainted with salt,
>> is a normal and natural diet for us. Sure, our taste buds adapt to the
>> higher salt levels but our body, in general, does not. If you drop down
>> to a natural diet, a raft of modern day health problems disappear.

Nearly any approach to paleolithic or organic or low carb or high veggie
eating is better than what most people eat, even the ones who think they
are eating well. But low salt is not automatically a part of that.

> For most people, eating salt isn't a problem. Just over half of hypertensive
> people are salt-sensitive; about 26% of non-hypertensives are salt-sensitive.
> Almost 1/3 of the population has hypertension. So, if I've done the math,
> and if the figures I googled are correct, about 2/3 of the entire population is
> not salt sensitive.

Most Americans eat far more salt than is necessary, but the human body
is evolved to eject excess salt. If you want to take evolution into
account as a way to figure out what a "normal" human diet is you need to
take into account hunter gatherer stone age societies that eat mostly
meat and freshly gathered plants, but you also need to consider the
"aquatic ape" theory that would explain why our bodies eject so much
salt. It seems likely that human ancestors lived on the beach so long
we evolved that salt ejecting mechanism. Avoiding salt is not as
beneficial as the news claims. Taking plenty of water to flush it out
and eating foods that don't cause water retention in the first place
works better.

Once I read about the potassium in sea water I figured we should put
"lite salt" on the table at home. It sorta balances the potassium free
table salt used outside of home. Before doing that there are cautions
involved though.

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> one thing amuses me about tales from folks who have sharply reduced their
> salt intake: many, many, many say it renders restaurant or commercially
> prepared food 'inedible.' i know that's not the intent, but it seems a
> pretty dire side effect.

On the up-side, it improves the overall taste of food. Without all the
saline, you can taste the more subtle nuances. :-)

It's not _our_ fault that most commercial chefs have to make restaurant
food taste like the great salt lake!

It also saves you money. Eating out is expensive and most stuff is now
over-salted. I'm a better cook now than many local restaurants.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

On Jan 17, 8:04*am, Krypsis > wrote:
>
>
> I hate it when people automatically assume I like salt in my food.
>
Me too, but I also hate it when people automatically assume I do not
like salt in my food.
>
> Krypsis

--Bryan

On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:36:22 -0600, Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> one thing amuses me about tales from folks who have sharply reduced their
>> salt intake: many, many, many say it renders restaurant or commercially
>> prepared food 'inedible.' i know that's not the intent, but it seems a
>> pretty dire side effect.
>
> On the up-side, it improves the overall taste of food. Without all the
> saline, you can taste the more subtle nuances. :-)
>

sure. but some go to the extreme of *no* salt while cooking, and *no* salt
at table. i think that leaves a lot of 'nuance' behind.

> It's not _our_ fault that most commercial chefs have to make restaurant
> food taste like the great salt lake!
>
> It also saves you money. Eating out is expensive and most stuff is now
> over-salted. I'm a better cook now than many local restaurants.

i'd agree there, but it's more care and choice of ingredients (and trimming
thereof) than salt levels. in fact, i find myself adding more salt at
table in restaurants to compensate. (note: i'm not a customer of many
fine dining establishments.)

your pal,
blake

On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:30:55 -0800, Christine Dabney wrote:
>
> Ruhlman on salt:
> http://blog.ruhlman.com/2010/01/salt...od-or-bad.html
>
> Christine

this book (mentioned in the comments to the article you pointed to)

<http://www.amazon.com/Salt-World-History-Mark-Kurlansky/dp/0142001619/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264087611&sr=1-1>

....has been on the back-of-my mind book list for quite a while.

your pal,
blake

On 28/01/2010 6:09 AM, blake murphy wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:36:22 -0600, Omelet wrote:
>
>> In > ,
>> blake > wrote:
>>
>>> one thing amuses me about tales from folks who have sharply reduced their
>>> salt intake: many, many, many say it renders restaurant or commercially
>>> prepared food 'inedible.' i know that's not the intent, but it seems a
>>> pretty dire side effect.
>>
>> On the up-side, it improves the overall taste of food. Without all the
>> saline, you can taste the more subtle nuances. :-)
>>
>
> sure. but some go to the extreme of *no* salt while cooking, and *no* salt
> at table. i think that leaves a lot of 'nuance' behind.

We haven't added salt at the cooking stage nor at the table for years
now and still find our meals quite flavoursome to the point we rarely
eat out these days. But then Asian cuisine adds quite a lot of herbs and
spices to the mix resulting in a taste treat and totally negating any
need for a flavour enhancer like salt. My wife has been cooking up a
storm with Thai cuisine of late and the combinations of flavours are
simply awesome.
>
>> It's not _our_ fault that most commercial chefs have to make restaurant
>> food taste like the great salt lake!
>>
>> It also saves you money. Eating out is expensive and most stuff is now
>> over-salted. I'm a better cook now than many local restaurants.

Chefs are given a budget when purchasing the raw materials. In a lot of
cases, this results in the cheaper produce being selected. You can
really tell the difference when a chef selects only the finest
ingredients but be prepared to pay for the privilege.
>
> i'd agree there, but it's more care and choice of ingredients (and trimming
> thereof) than salt levels. in fact, i find myself adding more salt at
> table in restaurants to compensate. (note: i'm not a customer of many
> fine dining establishments.)
>
> your pal,
> blake

Probably more to do with the blandness of the raw materials themselves.
I know that vegetables from the local supermarket have far less flavour
than the vegetable my brother grows in his own garden. Even produce from
our own vegetable garden tastes better and I'm no green thumb by a long
margin. We don't use chemicals and we don't "force" growth, just let it
all happen naturally and we get quite tasty vegetables for our trouble.

Krypsis

On Jan 27, 2:40*pm, Krypsis > wrote:
> On 28/01/2010 6:09 AM, blake murphy wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:36:22 -0600, Omelet wrote:
>
> >> In > ,
> >> * blake > *wrote:
>
> >>> one thing amuses me about tales from folks who have sharply reduced their
> >>> salt intake: *many, many, many say it renders restaurant or commercially
> >>> prepared food 'inedible.' *i know that's not the intent, but it seems a
> >>> pretty dire side effect.
>
> >> On the up-side, it improves the overall taste of food. Without all the
> >> saline, you can taste the more subtle nuances. :-)
>
> > sure. *but some go to the extreme of *no* salt while cooking, and *no* salt
> > at table. *i think that leaves a lot of 'nuance' behind.
>
> We haven't added salt at the cooking stage nor at the table for years
> now and still find our meals quite flavoursome to the point we rarely
> eat out these days. But then Asian cuisine adds quite a lot of herbs and
> spices to the mix resulting in a taste treat and totally negating any
> need for a flavour enhancer like salt. My wife has been cooking up a
> storm with Thai cuisine of late and the combinations of flavours are
> simply awesome.
>

Thai cuisine is characterized by that famous sodium-free ingredient:
fish sauce.

Asian cuisine adds a buttload of salt, if you're doing it right.

Cindy Hamilton

On Jan 27, 1:27*pm, blake murphy > wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:30:55 -0800, Christine Dabney wrote:
>
> > Ruhlman on salt:
> >http://blog.ruhlman.com/2010/01/salt...od-or-bad.html
>
> > Christine
>
> this book (mentioned in the comments to the article you pointed to)
>
> <http://www.amazon.com/Salt-World-History-Mark-Kurlansky/dp/0142001619...>
>
> ...has been on the back-of-my mind book list for quite a while.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Oh my goodness - move it to the front-of-your-mind book list! It's a
terrific book, with a wide grasp of history. You will certainly never
look at that salt shaker on your table the same way

jt august > wrote:

>A co-worker was diagnosed with high blood pressure. I persuaded him to
>go with his doctor's salt free diet requirement, and after three months,
>he now finds food as good as ever, and fast foods are so salty it "salt
>burns" his tongue. It was simply a matter of getting past his salt
>addiction.

"Addiction" is not the exact right word, but one definitely
develops salt tolerance as one eats more salt, to the point
where food does not taste right unless highly salted.

Restaurants tend to over-salt because if a person is used
to eating say one gram of sodium per day, and the
person is served a savory restaurant item that contains
two grams of sodium in just that item, and the person
has a relatively unsophisticated palate, they may be tricked into
thinking the item tastes really good, merely because
of the salt. Whereas more discerning diners may be able
to factor out the salt level and evaluate the dish for
what it is.

So restaurants, I think, aim for food that is saltier than
their customers' typical salt tolerance.

Steve

On 28/01/2010 7:54 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Jan 27, 2:40 pm, > wrote:
>> On 28/01/2010 6:09 AM, blake murphy wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:36:22 -0600, Omelet wrote:
>>
>>>> In > ,
>>>> blake > wrote:
>>
>>>>> one thing amuses me about tales from folks who have sharply reduced their
>>>>> salt intake: many, many, many say it renders restaurant or commercially
>>>>> prepared food 'inedible.' i know that's not the intent, but it seems a
>>>>> pretty dire side effect.
>>
>>>> On the up-side, it improves the overall taste of food. Without all the
>>>> saline, you can taste the more subtle nuances. :-)
>>
>>> sure. but some go to the extreme of *no* salt while cooking, and *no* salt
>>> at table. i think that leaves a lot of 'nuance' behind.
>>
>> We haven't added salt at the cooking stage nor at the table for years
>> now and still find our meals quite flavoursome to the point we rarely
>> eat out these days. But then Asian cuisine adds quite a lot of herbs and
>> spices to the mix resulting in a taste treat and totally negating any
>> need for a flavour enhancer like salt. My wife has been cooking up a
>> storm with Thai cuisine of late and the combinations of flavours are
>> simply awesome.
>>
>
> Thai cuisine is characterized by that famous sodium-free ingredient:
> fish sauce.

Sarcasm noted ;-)

My wife makes pretty much all her own sauces, including her own fish
sauce. I have to get out of the house when her sauce making involves
cooking up the chillies. Her own sauces have a much more limited shelf
life, no doubt due to the minimisation of salt.
>
> Asian cuisine adds a buttload of salt, if you're doing it right.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

Doing it right is a matter of taste. Like any cuisine, the recipes are
very flexible. You do whatever works for you. Lose the salt and a
buttload of other flavours come into play, salt no longer dominating.

Krypsis

On 28/01/2010 10:08 AM, Christine Dabney wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 06:40:02 +1100, >
> wrote:
>
>
>> We haven't added salt at the cooking stage nor at the table for years
>> now and still find our meals quite flavoursome to the point we rarely
>> eat out these days. But then Asian cuisine adds quite a lot of herbs and
>> spices to the mix resulting in a taste treat and totally negating any
>> need for a flavour enhancer like salt. My wife has been cooking up a
>> storm with Thai cuisine of late and the combinations of flavours are
>> simply awesome.
>
> Asian cuisines are deceptive. You might be adding more salt than you
> realize, as the sauces such as soy sauce, fish sauce, and others
> typically are very salty in themselves. They add other flavors as
> well, but salt is one ingredient in those sauces. Read the labels.
>
> Christine

We did read the labels. That's why my wife makes her own sauces. Limited
shelf life is the only downside to her sauces.

Krypsis

Krypsis wrote:

> We haven't added salt at the cooking stage nor at the table for years
> now and still find our meals quite flavoursome to the point we rarely
> eat out these days. But then Asian cuisine adds quite a lot of herbs and
> spices to the mix resulting in a taste treat and totally negating any
> need for a flavour enhancer like salt. My wife has been cooking up a
> storm with Thai cuisine of late and the combinations of flavours are
> simply awesome.
[snip]

But are you using soy sauce, fish sauce, etc.?

--
Jean B.

On 29/01/2010 12:20 AM, Jean B. wrote:
> Krypsis wrote:
>
>> We haven't added salt at the cooking stage nor at the table for years
>> now and still find our meals quite flavoursome to the point we rarely
>> eat out these days. But then Asian cuisine adds quite a lot of herbs
>> and spices to the mix resulting in a taste treat and totally negating
>> any need for a flavour enhancer like salt. My wife has been cooking up
>> a storm with Thai cuisine of late and the combinations of flavours are
>> simply awesome.
> [snip]
>
> But are you using soy sauce, fish sauce, etc.?
>

In a previous post I mentioned that my wife makers her own sauces. She
only makes small quantities at a time as they don't keep very well,
probably due to the lack of salt. She makes what she needs for a week or
two in advance. Stay well out of the kitchen when she's frying up a heap
of fresh chilli in the wok. Always seems to be pounding some fresh
ingredients with the mortar and pestle. Though she's not Thai, she's
been doing a lot of Thai cuisine of late. We've discovered that I can
handle food a lot hotter than she can. Even our visitor from Vietnam
can't match me with the chilli sauce my wife brews up.

We have a smattering of store bought sauces in the house but they are
mainly for guests who don't have salt adapted palates. We cycle through
these on a regular basis long before they are empty in case the contents
go off with age.

My wife has become quite paranoid about MSG in recent years, especially
since members of her family in the old country have become stricken with
diseases related to its use. Vietnamese restaurants are known to use MSG
quite heavily in their cuisine so we only frequent those establishments
where we can get a guarantee from the management that MSG will not be
used in meals we order. I might add, that limits us to very few
restaurants but those that will comply are usually the better ones. It
also helps to know the chef personally. ;-)

Krypsis

On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 13:21:44 -0800 (PST), Michelle wrote:

> On Jan 27, 1:27*pm, blake murphy > wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:30:55 -0800, Christine Dabney wrote:
>>
>>> Ruhlman on salt:
>>>http://blog.ruhlman.com/2010/01/salt...od-or-bad.html
>>
>>> Christine
>>
>> this book (mentioned in the comments to the article you pointed to)
>>
>> <http://www.amazon.com/Salt-World-History-Mark-Kurlansky/dp/0142001619...>
>>
>> ...has been on the back-of-my mind book list for quite a while.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> Oh my goodness - move it to the front-of-your-mind book list! It's a
> terrific book, with a wide grasp of history. You will certainly never
> look at that salt shaker on your table the same way

i guess for ten bucks i can't go too far wrong.

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 06:40:02 +1100, Krypsis wrote:

> On 28/01/2010 6:09 AM, blake murphy wrote:
>>
>> i'd agree there, but it's more care and choice of ingredients (and trimming
>> thereof) than salt levels. in fact, i find myself adding more salt at
>> table in restaurants to compensate. (note: i'm not a customer of many
>> fine dining establishments.)
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> Probably more to do with the blandness of the raw materials themselves.
> I know that vegetables from the local supermarket have far less flavour
> than the vegetable my brother grows in his own garden. Even produce from
> our own vegetable garden tastes better and I'm no green thumb by a long
> margin. We don't use chemicals and we don't "force" growth, just let it
> all happen naturally and we get quite tasty vegetables for our trouble.
>
> Krypsis

you are fortunate to have access to very fresh vegetables. many of us
aren't so lucky.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 23:32:11 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:

> jt august > wrote:
>
>>A co-worker was diagnosed with high blood pressure. I persuaded him to
>>go with his doctor's salt free diet requirement, and after three months,
>>he now finds food as good as ever, and fast foods are so salty it "salt
>>burns" his tongue. It was simply a matter of getting past his salt
>>addiction.
>
> "Addiction" is not the exact right word, but one definitely
> develops salt tolerance as one eats more salt, to the point
> where food does not taste right unless highly salted.
>
> Restaurants tend to over-salt because if a person is used
> to eating say one gram of sodium per day, and the
> person is served a savory restaurant item that contains
> two grams of sodium in just that item, and the person
> has a relatively unsophisticated palate, they may be tricked into
> thinking the item tastes really good, merely because
> of the salt. Whereas more discerning diners may be able
> to factor out the salt level and evaluate the dish for
> what it is.
>
> So restaurants, I think, aim for food that is saltier than
> their customers' typical salt tolerance.
>
> Steve

i think i would argue with the word 'tricked.' if it tastes good to them,
it tastes good to them. you may think their palate unsophisticated, but i
don't think they've been duped in any way.

your pal,
blake

In article >,
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> jt august > wrote:
>
> >A co-worker was diagnosed with high blood pressure. I persuaded him to
> >go with his doctor's salt free diet requirement, and after three months,
> >he now finds food as good as ever, and fast foods are so salty it "salt
> >burns" his tongue. It was simply a matter of getting past his salt
> >addiction.
>
> "Addiction" is not the exact right word, but one definitely
> develops salt tolerance as one eats more salt, to the point
> where food does not taste right unless highly salted.
>
> Restaurants tend to over-salt because if a person is used
> to eating say one gram of sodium per day, and the
> person is served a savory restaurant item that contains
> two grams of sodium in just that item, and the person
> has a relatively unsophisticated palate, they may be tricked into
> thinking the item tastes really good, merely because
> of the salt. Whereas more discerning diners may be able
> to factor out the salt level and evaluate the dish for
> what it is.
>
> So restaurants, I think, aim for food that is saltier than
> their customers' typical salt tolerance.
>
> Steve

Hmmm...

I used to crave salt like no tomorrow. All foods tasted bland. It was a
thyroid problem. When I was young I had an over active thyroid. In my
middle age it started to play out. Now its under active and I take
thyroid medication. My desire for salt has been dramatically reduced and
foods taste better. Extra note: I do not have or ever had high blood
pressure. A strong craving for salt could be a thyroid problem.

Enjoy Life... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.