Hello All!

I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?

--


James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Jan 19, 11:16*am, "James Silverton" >
wrote:
> Hello All!
>
> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?

Not using Sriracha, but I sometimes add a little chile oil. Its
neutral
(more neutral than Sriracha, anyway) flavor doesn't interfere with
that
of the soup.

Cindy Hamilton

In article >,
"James Silverton" > wrote:


> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?

Not that I think there is a very authentic recipe (I've read that for
both H&S soup and fried rice, the first step is to clean out your fridge
to see what you could put in), but my warning for Sriracha would be that
it has a fair amount of sugar and garlic in it. I've read a lot of
recipes for H&S soup, and followed none of them, but although most use
white pepper for the heat, some use hot oil or hot bean paste, which are
much spicier.

My son and daughter made H&S soup a couple of nights ago. It was very
good. The recipe that my son chose called for hot oil and no white
pepper. My daughter got in a big (but friendly) argument with my son
about it.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

"James Silverton" > wrote in message
...
> Hello All!
>
> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
>
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
>
Sriracha always, to the level of the "hot" you want. We get "Tuong Ot
Sriracha". Are there any other brands to try? Chile oil is good too, though
we prefer Sriracha for "hot and sour", and chile oil for milder Chinese
soups, usually at Chinese restaurants.

Kent

On 1/19/2010 6:16 AM, James Silverton wrote:
> Hello All!
>
> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
>

The whole point of hot and sour soup is it's total reliance on
black/white pepper and vinegar as it's main flavor components - that's
rather unique. I don't add any Srichacha myself. OTOH, I can see how the
taste of the soup might get kind of boring after a while.

James Silverton > wrote:

> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?

It is debatable if using white pepper is more authentic than using other
kinds of pepper. Here is a nice link which I posted befo
<http://www.tigersandstrawberries.com/2005/03/10/what-the-hell-does-authentic-mean-anyway/>

Meanwhile, here is an authentic version, one of many, from Shanghai.
The recipe is from <http://nicemeal.com/000/soup/soup02.html>.

Victor


Shanghai Style Spicy Sour Soup

Suan La Tang (Mandarin)

Materials
Shredded Meat 100 g
Dry Black Fungus 4 pcs
Dry Black Mushrooms 5 pcs
Shredded Doufu 1 pc
Shredded Bamboo Shoots 1/2 can
Shredded Solid pig blood 1/2 cup
Shredded Red Carrot 1 tbsp
Egg 1 pc
Spring Onion 1 stalk
Cornflour 3 tbsp

Sauce 1
Light Soy Sauce 2 tbsp
Red Vinegar 2 tbsp
Sugar 1 tbsp

Sauce 2
Sesame Oil 2 tbsp
Spicy Red Pepper
Oil 1/2 tbsp
Pepper some
Salt 1/2 tbsp
Chinese Parsley some

Steps
1) Soak the dry fungus and mushroom, clean and wipe dry, shredded
2) Whisk the egg with 3 tbsp of water and a little cornflour
3) Stir fry the spring onion, mushrooms with 2 tbsp of oil
4) Add 6 cup of water (approx. 1/2 liter) until boiled
5) Shred spring onion, add all shredded materials to soup
6) Add sauce (1) and cornflour solution, stir well until boiled
7) Pour the egg solution and stir gently until egg float on surface
8) Add sauce (2), mix well and until boiled for 1 minute, serve

Remark
tbsp - table spoon
Pig blood can be instead by chicken's - steam blood with 1/3 water in a
bowl until cooked
Pig blood - this material is not necessary, but better taste if applied

dsi1 wrote:
> On 1/19/2010 6:16 AM, James Silverton wrote:
>> Hello All!
>>
>> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
>> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
>> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
>>
>
> The whole point of hot and sour soup is it's total reliance on
> black/white pepper and vinegar as it's main flavor components - that's
> rather unique. I don't add any Srichacha myself. OTOH, I can see how the
> taste of the soup might get kind of boring after a while.

Hooray!!! Someone who understands the subtlety of hot and sour soup.
It's really more about the textures than the "hot" and "sour". An
authentic recipe will include all kinds of wonderful things like tiger
lily stems, tree ear mushrooms, shredded bamboo shoots and pieces of
firm bean curd.

Traditional Chinese cuisine is excellent by itself. I, personally, see
no reason to turn it into TexMex.

YMMV

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

James Silverton wrote:
> Hello All!
>
> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
>

That was from Time-Life, in partial answer to a request. (I was
trying to figure out why the header was Sour and Hot Soup, and
then realized that it was because I typed it as T-L had it.)
Personally, I would not like the garlic flavor in that soup. I'd
add hot pepper oil--or even try adding some hot Sichuan bean
sauce. But that's just me.

--
Jean B.

Dan Abel wrote:
> In article >,
> "James Silverton" > wrote:
>
>
>> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
>> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
>> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
>
> Not that I think there is a very authentic recipe (I've read that for
> both H&S soup and fried rice, the first step is to clean out your fridge
> to see what you could put in), but my warning for Sriracha would be that
> it has a fair amount of sugar and garlic in it. I've read a lot of
> recipes for H&S soup, and followed none of them, but although most use
> white pepper for the heat, some use hot oil or hot bean paste, which are
> much spicier.
>
> My son and daughter made H&S soup a couple of nights ago. It was very
> good. The recipe that my son chose called for hot oil and no white
> pepper. My daughter got in a big (but friendly) argument with my son
> about it.
>
I should have read on.... :-)

--
Jean B.

On 1/19/2010 2:19 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>> On 1/19/2010 6:16 AM, James Silverton wrote:
>>> Hello All!
>>>
>>> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
>>> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
>>> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
>>>
>>
>> The whole point of hot and sour soup is it's total reliance on
>> black/white pepper and vinegar as it's main flavor components - that's
>> rather unique. I don't add any Srichacha myself. OTOH, I can see how
>> the taste of the soup might get kind of boring after a while.
>
> Hooray!!! Someone who understands the subtlety of hot and sour soup.
> It's really more about the textures than the "hot" and "sour". An
> authentic recipe will include all kinds of wonderful things like tiger
> lily stems, tree ear mushrooms, shredded bamboo shoots and pieces of
> firm bean curd.

I remember frequenting a restaurant across the street from the place I
used to work and ordering a bowl of that soup and a plate of rice with
spicy beef. That was the special of the day although the "special" never
seemed to change. As I recall, it cost $2.50.

This must have been 25 or so years ago and I think that must have been a
high point in my life as far as lunch goes. :-) Mostly, I'd eat alone
and a couple of times I was joined by my wife. Either way, I enjoyed the
experience greatly and felt like I was a king. It may be that given any
dish, sooner or later, you'll reach the point where you no longer have
the desire to eat another spoonful. In my case, with hot and sour soup,
I haven't reached that point yet!

>
> Traditional Chinese cuisine is excellent by itself. I, personally, see
> no reason to turn it into TexMex.
>
> YMMV
>

On Jan 19, 4:19 pm, Janet Wilder > wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
> > On 1/19/2010 6:16 AM, James Silverton wrote:
> >> Hello All!
>
> >> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
> >> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
> >> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
>
> > The whole point of hot and sour soup is it's total reliance on
> > black/white pepper and vinegar as it's main flavor components - that's
> > rather unique. I don't add any Srichacha myself. OTOH, I can see how the
> > taste of the soup might get kind of boring after a while.
>
> Hooray!!! Someone who understands the subtlety of hot and sour soup.
> It's really more about the textures than the "hot" and "sour". An
> authentic recipe will include all kinds of wonderful things like tiger
> lily stems, tree ear mushrooms, shredded bamboo shoots and pieces of
> firm bean curd.
>
Exactly right. Appreciation of textures is a big part of Chinese
food. As to the kind of pepper, I've used white pepper, black pepper,
dried red chile flakes and chile oil, as suggested by one or another
of many recipes I've seen. "Authentic" is pretty meaningless for this
kind of dish. Most of the time I've preferred black pepper, but I
think Fuchsia Dunlop's latest published version uses white. My
container of white pepper is very old and tasteless; I'll have to get
some good stuff (maybe from Penzey's?) before trying it again.

> Traditional Chinese cuisine is excellent by itself. I, personally, see
> no reason to turn it into TexMex.

Garlic chile sauce is a good thing. It just (like garlic) doesn't
necessarily belong everywhere. -aem

On 1/19/2010 19:19, Janet Wilder wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>> On 1/19/2010 6:16 AM, James Silverton wrote:
>>> Hello All!
>>>
>>> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
>>> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
>>> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
>>>
>>
>> The whole point of hot and sour soup is it's total reliance on
>> black/white pepper and vinegar as it's main flavor components - that's
>> rather unique. I don't add any Srichacha myself. OTOH, I can see how
>> the taste of the soup might get kind of boring after a while.
>
> Hooray!!! Someone who understands the subtlety of hot and sour soup.
> It's really more about the textures than the "hot" and "sour". An
> authentic recipe will include all kinds of wonderful things like tiger
> lily stems, tree ear mushrooms, shredded bamboo shoots and pieces of
> firm bean curd.
>
> Traditional Chinese cuisine is excellent by itself. I, personally, see
> no reason to turn it into TexMex.
>
> YMMV
>
Totally agree.

On 1/19/2010 19:51, dsi1 wrote:
> On 1/19/2010 2:19 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:
>> dsi1 wrote:
>>> On 1/19/2010 6:16 AM, James Silverton wrote:
>>>> Hello All!
>>>>
>>>> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It
>>>> looks
>>>> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
>>>> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The whole point of hot and sour soup is it's total reliance on
>>> black/white pepper and vinegar as it's main flavor components - that's
>>> rather unique. I don't add any Srichacha myself. OTOH, I can see how
>>> the taste of the soup might get kind of boring after a while.
>>
>> Hooray!!! Someone who understands the subtlety of hot and sour soup.
>> It's really more about the textures than the "hot" and "sour". An
>> authentic recipe will include all kinds of wonderful things like tiger
>> lily stems, tree ear mushrooms, shredded bamboo shoots and pieces of
>> firm bean curd.
>
> I remember frequenting a restaurant across the street from the place I
> used to work and ordering a bowl of that soup and a plate of rice with
> spicy beef. That was the special of the day although the "special" never
> seemed to change. As I recall, it cost $2.50.
>
> This must have been 25 or so years ago and I think that must have been a
> high point in my life as far as lunch goes. :-) Mostly, I'd eat alone
> and a couple of times I was joined by my wife. Either way, I enjoyed the
> experience greatly and felt like I was a king. It may be that given any
> dish, sooner or later, you'll reach the point where you no longer have
> the desire to eat another spoonful. In my case, with hot and sour soup,
> I haven't reached that point yet!
>
>>
>> Traditional Chinese cuisine is excellent by itself. I, personally, see
>> no reason to turn it into TexMex.
>>
>> YMMV
>>
>
Best hot & sour soup I know is in NYC Chinatown I . There is a little
hole in the wall dumpling place (that also makes probably the best pork
& chives dumplings you will ever have) that charges a whopping $1.25 for
a pint container.

On 2010-01-20, Janet Wilder > wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>> On 1/19/2010 6:16 AM, James Silverton wrote:

>>> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
>>> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
>>> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
>>
>> The whole point of hot and sour soup is it's total reliance on
>> black/white pepper and vinegar as it's main flavor components - that's
>> rather unique. I don't add any Srichacha myself. OTOH, I can see how the
>> taste of the soup might get kind of boring after a while.
>
> Hooray!!! Someone who understands the subtlety of hot and sour soup.
> It's really more about the textures than the "hot" and "sour". An
> authentic recipe will include all kinds of wonderful things like tiger
> lily stems, tree ear mushrooms, shredded bamboo shoots and pieces of
> firm bean curd.

Like this one?

Hot and Sour Soup

Recipe from: Jade Walker
Servings: 6

1/4 pound lean pork loin, shredded
2 teaspoon soy sauce (medium)
2 teaspoon Chinese rice wine
5 1/4 ounce. bean curd
1 teaspoon tapioca starch
4-6 dried mushrooms
2 tablespoon dried tree ears
1/4 cup dried lily flowers
1/4 cup bamboo shoots
4 cup chicken broth
1 tablespoon soy sauce (medium)
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon sugar
1 1/2 tablespoon Szechuan preserved vegetable (jar choy, pickled kohlrabi)
2 tablespoon Chin Kiang (black) vinegar (a rice vinegar)
1/4 teaspoon black or white pepper
1 egg, lightly beaten
3 tablespoon tapioca starch dissolved in 4 tablespoon. water
1 tablespoon sesame oil
2 teaspoon chili oil (optional)
2 stalks scallion, chopped

Shred the pork then mix with the marinade of soy sauce, rice wine, and
tapioca starch. Marinate for 30 minutes. Soak the mushrooms, tree ears,
and lily flowers in hot water in separate bowls for 15 minutes until
softened. Wash the tree ears carefully then shred them. Shred the bamboo
shoots, preserved vegetable, and 5 1/4 ounce. bean curd. Dissolve the
tapioca starch with water. Chop the scallions. Bring 4 cups chicken broth
and 2 cups water to a boil in a large pot. Add the soy sauce, salt, and
sugar. Mix well. Add the marinated pork. Stir gently then add the
mushrooms, tree ears, lily flowers, bamboo shoots and preserved
vegetable. Let boil for about 2 minutes. Add the bean curd. Bring the
soup to a boil again. Stir in the well-mixed tapioca starch until it
thickens. Add the black vinegar and pepper. Stir well. Quickly add in
egg and turn off heat immediately. Garnish with sesame oil, chili oil,
and scallions. Serve hot.

Note: This recipe is from a Chinese cooking class I took about 3 years
ago. I don't which ingredient gives it that special flavor, but I'd put
my money on the vinegar or the preserved vegetable.

--
Clay Irving >
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by
killing all those who opposed them.

On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 08:46:10 -0500, George wrote:

> On 1/19/2010 19:19, Janet Wilder wrote:
>> dsi1 wrote:
>>> On 1/19/2010 6:16 AM, James Silverton wrote:
>>>> Hello All!
>>>>
>>>> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
>>>> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
>>>> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The whole point of hot and sour soup is it's total reliance on
>>> black/white pepper and vinegar as it's main flavor components - that's
>>> rather unique. I don't add any Srichacha myself. OTOH, I can see how
>>> the taste of the soup might get kind of boring after a while.
>>
>> Hooray!!! Someone who understands the subtlety of hot and sour soup.
>> It's really more about the textures than the "hot" and "sour". An
>> authentic recipe will include all kinds of wonderful things like tiger
>> lily stems, tree ear mushrooms, shredded bamboo shoots and pieces of
>> firm bean curd.
>>
>> Traditional Chinese cuisine is excellent by itself. I, personally, see
>> no reason to turn it into TexMex.
>>
>> YMMV
>>
> Totally agree.

it take both your points here, but i'm not sure how adding sriracha turns
it into 'tex-mex.'

your pal,
blake

On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 11:16:47 -0500, James Silverton wrote:

> Hello All!
>
> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?

i'm a slob. black pepper for heat, vinegar for sour.

i see robert delfs (who says black *or* white) adds a little ketchup.

but i seldom make it anymore, since the joint down the street makes a
perfectly respectable version (with some items i don't generally have on
hand) for $1.75.

your pal,
blake

On Jan 20, 11:23*am, Clay Irving > wrote:

> * *1 1/2 tablespoon Szechuan preserved vegetable (jar choy, pickled kohlrabi)

Is that what it is? I always thought it was turnip. Still, it's
wonderful in
hot-and-sour soup.

Cindy Hamilton

Clay Irving wrote:
> On 2010-01-20, Janet Wilder > wrote:
>> dsi1 wrote:
>>> On 1/19/2010 6:16 AM, James Silverton wrote:
>
>>>> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
>>>> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
>>>> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
>>> The whole point of hot and sour soup is it's total reliance on
>>> black/white pepper and vinegar as it's main flavor components - that's
>>> rather unique. I don't add any Srichacha myself. OTOH, I can see how the
>>> taste of the soup might get kind of boring after a while.
>> Hooray!!! Someone who understands the subtlety of hot and sour soup.
>> It's really more about the textures than the "hot" and "sour". An
>> authentic recipe will include all kinds of wonderful things like tiger
>> lily stems, tree ear mushrooms, shredded bamboo shoots and pieces of
>> firm bean curd.
>
> Like this one?
>
> Hot and Sour Soup
>
> Recipe from: Jade Walker
> Servings: 6
>
> 1/4 pound lean pork loin, shredded
> 2 teaspoon soy sauce (medium)
> 2 teaspoon Chinese rice wine
> 5 1/4 ounce. bean curd
> 1 teaspoon tapioca starch
> 4-6 dried mushrooms
> 2 tablespoon dried tree ears
> 1/4 cup dried lily flowers
> 1/4 cup bamboo shoots
> 4 cup chicken broth
> 1 tablespoon soy sauce (medium)
> 1/2 teaspoon salt
> 1 teaspoon sugar
> 1 1/2 tablespoon Szechuan preserved vegetable (jar choy, pickled kohlrabi)
> 2 tablespoon Chin Kiang (black) vinegar (a rice vinegar)
> 1/4 teaspoon black or white pepper
> 1 egg, lightly beaten
> 3 tablespoon tapioca starch dissolved in 4 tablespoon. water
> 1 tablespoon sesame oil
> 2 teaspoon chili oil (optional)
> 2 stalks scallion, chopped
>
> Shred the pork then mix with the marinade of soy sauce, rice wine, and
> tapioca starch. Marinate for 30 minutes. Soak the mushrooms, tree ears,
> and lily flowers in hot water in separate bowls for 15 minutes until
> softened. Wash the tree ears carefully then shred them. Shred the bamboo
> shoots, preserved vegetable, and 5 1/4 ounce. bean curd. Dissolve the
> tapioca starch with water. Chop the scallions. Bring 4 cups chicken broth
> and 2 cups water to a boil in a large pot. Add the soy sauce, salt, and
> sugar. Mix well. Add the marinated pork. Stir gently then add the
> mushrooms, tree ears, lily flowers, bamboo shoots and preserved
> vegetable. Let boil for about 2 minutes. Add the bean curd. Bring the
> soup to a boil again. Stir in the well-mixed tapioca starch until it
> thickens. Add the black vinegar and pepper. Stir well. Quickly add in
> egg and turn off heat immediately. Garnish with sesame oil, chili oil,
> and scallions. Serve hot.
>
> Note: This recipe is from a Chinese cooking class I took about 3 years
> ago. I don't which ingredient gives it that special flavor, but I'd put
> my money on the vinegar or the preserved vegetable.
>
THAT looks really interesting. I haven't had the preserved
vegetables in H&S soup that I know of. Hmmm. Come to think of
it, I think I have some in the fridge. I may have to make this in
the VERY near future.

--
Jean B.

On 2010-01-20, Cindy Hamilton > wrote:
> On Jan 20, 11:23*am, Clay Irving > wrote:

>> 1 1/2 tablespoon Szechuan preserved vegetable (jar choy,
>> pickled kohlrabi)

> Is that what it is? I always thought it was turnip. Still, it's
> wonderful in hot-and-sour soup.

I've seen it referred to as "spiced turnip greens", but I believe it is
a type of a pickled mustard green. See:

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Zha_cai

This reference refers to it as "Sichuan preserved mustard stem of Sichuan
preserved radish":

http://www.chinesetakeaways.com/Ingr...0Vegetable.htm

--
Clay Irving >
There are 6 billion people in the world, and only 30 billion of those
are Canadians - Headline in the Toronto Globe and Mail

blake murphy wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 11:16:47 -0500, James Silverton wrote:
>
>> Hello All!
>>
>> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
>> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
>> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
>
> i'm a slob. black pepper for heat, vinegar for sour.
>
> i see robert delfs (who says black *or* white) adds a little ketchup.
>
> but i seldom make it anymore, since the joint down the street makes a
> perfectly respectable version (with some items i don't generally have on
> hand) for $1.75.
>
> your pal,
> blake

I didn't recall that about Delfs. I think my recipe that I now
can't find (of course) was a combination of Delfs, Chiang, and
inspiration.

I don't think I want that catsup there, although AIR, the first
Sichuan restaurant I went to (prob. in the 70s in NYC) had a
famous shrimp dish that contained catsup.

--
Jean B.

On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 08:50:08 -0500, George >
wrote:

>On 1/19/2010 19:51, dsi1 wrote:
>> On 1/19/2010 2:19 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:
>>> dsi1 wrote:
>>>> On 1/19/2010 6:16 AM, James Silverton wrote:
>>>>> Hello All!
>>>>>
>>>>> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It
>>>>> looks
>>>>> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
>>>>> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The whole point of hot and sour soup is it's total reliance on
>>>> black/white pepper and vinegar as it's main flavor components - that's
>>>> rather unique. I don't add any Srichacha myself. OTOH, I can see how
>>>> the taste of the soup might get kind of boring after a while.
>>>
>>> Hooray!!! Someone who understands the subtlety of hot and sour soup.
>>> It's really more about the textures than the "hot" and "sour". An
>>> authentic recipe will include all kinds of wonderful things like tiger
>>> lily stems, tree ear mushrooms, shredded bamboo shoots and pieces of
>>> firm bean curd.
>>
>> I remember frequenting a restaurant across the street from the place I
>> used to work and ordering a bowl of that soup and a plate of rice with
>> spicy beef. That was the special of the day although the "special" never
>> seemed to change. As I recall, it cost $2.50.
>>
>> This must have been 25 or so years ago and I think that must have been a
>> high point in my life as far as lunch goes. :-) Mostly, I'd eat alone
>> and a couple of times I was joined by my wife. Either way, I enjoyed the
>> experience greatly and felt like I was a king. It may be that given any
>> dish, sooner or later, you'll reach the point where you no longer have
>> the desire to eat another spoonful. In my case, with hot and sour soup,
>> I haven't reached that point yet!
>>
>>>
>>> Traditional Chinese cuisine is excellent by itself. I, personally, see
>>> no reason to turn it into TexMex.
>>>
>>> YMMV
>>>
>>
>Best hot & sour soup I know is in NYC Chinatown I . There is a little
>hole in the wall dumpling place (that also makes probably the best pork
>& chives dumplings you will ever have) that charges a whopping $1.25 for
>a pint container.

There are excellent versions of hot and sour soup served in Toronto's
Chinatown too.

Every Chinese cook prepares hot and sour soup differently but all that
I've had in NYC or any Chinatown does not rely on black and white
pepper for heat (that would be mighty wussy soup), all include some
form of hot chili, some add hot chili oil but the better ones also add
a couple three of those tiny fiery hot peppers (tien tsin or piquin),
be careful not to bite into one... that's one TIA you don't want to
experience.

This recipe comes close to traditional but naturally can be altered to
suit in a gazillion ways:
http://homecooking.about.com/od/soups/r/blss154.htm

Btw, the typical Chinese take out, especially those located outside of
large cosmopolitan cities, do not prepare Chinese restaurant food, not
even close. There's a Chinese take out in my little hillybilly town,
folks hereabouts think it's the cat's meow. I tried their food once
when I first arrived here, I gave them one more try a year later,
blech... wtf is "boneless spareribs"... must be how they get that
cat's meow. I've eaten at a couple of nearby buffet joints that call
themselves Chinese, NOT... I've had much better at hospital cafeterias
and that was Chung King out of #10 cans.

On 1/20/2010 8:41 AM, Jean B. wrote:
> blake murphy wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 11:16:47 -0500, James Silverton wrote:
>>
>>> Hello All!
>>>
>>> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It
>>> looks authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others
>>> are as horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
>>
>> i'm a slob. black pepper for heat, vinegar for sour.
>>
>> i see robert delfs (who says black *or* white) adds a little ketchup.
>>
>> but i seldom make it anymore, since the joint down the street makes a
>> perfectly respectable version (with some items i don't generally have on
>> hand) for $1.75.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> I didn't recall that about Delfs. I think my recipe that I now can't
> find (of course) was a combination of Delfs, Chiang, and inspiration.
>
> I don't think I want that catsup there, although AIR, the first Sichuan
> restaurant I went to (prob. in the 70s in NYC) had a famous shrimp dish
> that contained catsup.
>

I use a little ketchup in teriyaki sauce and stir-fry dishes - it's an
Asian secret ingredient. :-)

On 1/20/2010 3:50 AM, George wrote:
>>
> Best hot & sour soup I know is in NYC Chinatown I . There is a little
> hole in the wall dumpling place (that also makes probably the best pork
> & chives dumplings you will ever have) that charges a whopping $1.25 for
> a pint container.

My guess is that you can find anything in NYC Chinatown. That's the way
it goes, we'll discover a place that's great and for a while it's all
good. Sooner or later it'll probably come to an end. The only thing we
can count on is change. In my case, the Chinese restaurant that I would
frequent changed to a Mexican one. Olé... :-(

dsi1 wrote:
>
> On 1/19/2010 6:16 AM, James Silverton wrote:
> > Hello All!
> >
> > I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
> > authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
> > horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
> >
>
> The whole point of hot and sour soup is it's total reliance on
> black/white pepper and vinegar as it's main flavor components - that's
> rather unique. I don't add any Srichacha myself. OTOH, I can see how the
> taste of the soup might get kind of boring after a while.


None of my Chinese friends used anything but ground white or black
pepper, black vinegar and a bit of soy sauce to season their hot and
sour soup. It was a way to clean the bits and pieces out of the fridge.
It couldn't ever be boring cos the ingredients change each time it was
made.

On 1/20/2010 3:07 PM, Arri London wrote:
>
>
> dsi1 wrote:
>>
>> On 1/19/2010 6:16 AM, James Silverton wrote:
>>> Hello All!
>>>
>>> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
>>> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
>>> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
>>>
>>
>> The whole point of hot and sour soup is it's total reliance on
>> black/white pepper and vinegar as it's main flavor components - that's
>> rather unique. I don't add any Srichacha myself. OTOH, I can see how the
>> taste of the soup might get kind of boring after a while.
>
>
> None of my Chinese friends used anything but ground white or black
> pepper, black vinegar and a bit of soy sauce to season their hot and
> sour soup. It was a way to clean the bits and pieces out of the fridge.
> It couldn't ever be boring cos the ingredients change each time it was
> made.

I never found it boring but why else would anyone add Srichacha sauce?
I've made it a few times and it's just chicken stock with some pork bits
and bamboo shoots and some tofu and whatever else you'd want to add and
some thickener and of course pepper and vinegar and soy sauce. I don't
usually have that Chinese ear fungus mushrooms but shitakes work ok. I
do think it important to keep the whatever you put in there in the
correct form - fine strips. Some folks will want to add some beaten eggs
but I don't go there myself. :-) I'd like to add some scallops but have
no idea on how to go about breaking scallops down into fine strips.

On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 09:00:24 -1000, dsi1 wrote:

> On 1/20/2010 8:41 AM, Jean B. wrote:
>> blake murphy wrote:
>>> On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 11:16:47 -0500, James Silverton wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello All!
>>>>
>>>> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It
>>>> looks authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others
>>>> are as horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
>>>
>>> i'm a slob. black pepper for heat, vinegar for sour.
>>>
>>> i see robert delfs (who says black *or* white) adds a little ketchup.
>>>
>>> but i seldom make it anymore, since the joint down the street makes a
>>> perfectly respectable version (with some items i don't generally have on
>>> hand) for $1.75.
>>>
>>> your pal,
>>> blake
>>
>> I didn't recall that about Delfs. I think my recipe that I now can't
>> find (of course) was a combination of Delfs, Chiang, and inspiration.
>>
>> I don't think I want that catsup there, although AIR, the first Sichuan
>> restaurant I went to (prob. in the 70s in NYC) had a famous shrimp dish
>> that contained catsup.
>>
>
> I use a little ketchup in teriyaki sauce and stir-fry dishes - it's an
> Asian secret ingredient. :-)

i think ketchup is more widely used by chinese cooks than most people
think. usually fairly small quantities, though.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:56:02 -0500, brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> There are excellent versions of hot and sour soup served in Toronto's
> Chinatown too.
>
> Every Chinese cook prepares hot and sour soup differently but all that
> I've had in NYC or any Chinatown does not rely on black and white
> pepper for heat (that would be mighty wussy soup), all include some
> form of hot chili, some add hot chili oil but the better ones also add
> a couple three of those tiny fiery hot peppers (tien tsin or piquin),
> be careful not to bite into one... that's one TIA you don't want to
> experience.

you don't know what the **** you are talking about. again.

blake

blake murphy wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 09:00:24 -1000, dsi1 wrote:
>
>> On 1/20/2010 8:41 AM, Jean B. wrote:

>> I use a little ketchup in teriyaki sauce and stir-fry dishes - it's an
>> Asian secret ingredient. :-)
>
> i think ketchup is more widely used by chinese cooks than most people
> think. usually fairly small quantities, though.

I have a couple of Chinese Cuisine cookbooks that use ketchup in some
dishes. Mostly in sweet and sour sauce, IIRC

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

dsi1 wrote:
>
> On 1/20/2010 3:07 PM, Arri London wrote:
> >
> >
> > dsi1 wrote:
> >>
> >> On 1/19/2010 6:16 AM, James Silverton wrote:
> >>> Hello All!
> >>>
> >>> I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
> >>> authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
> >>> horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?
> >>>
> >>
> >> The whole point of hot and sour soup is it's total reliance on
> >> black/white pepper and vinegar as it's main flavor components - that's
> >> rather unique. I don't add any Srichacha myself. OTOH, I can see how the
> >> taste of the soup might get kind of boring after a while.
> >
> >
> > None of my Chinese friends used anything but ground white or black
> > pepper, black vinegar and a bit of soy sauce to season their hot and
> > sour soup. It was a way to clean the bits and pieces out of the fridge.
> > It couldn't ever be boring cos the ingredients change each time it was
> > made.
>
> I never found it boring but why else would anyone add Srichacha sauce?

No idea. That particular flavour just doesn't belong in there.

> I've made it a few times and it's just chicken stock with some pork bits
> and bamboo shoots and some tofu and whatever else you'd want to add and
> some thickener and of course pepper and vinegar and soy sauce.


They didn't ever thicken the soup. But none of them were from Sichuan
anyway.


>I don't
> usually have that Chinese ear fungus mushrooms but shitakes work ok. I
> do think it important to keep the whatever you put in there in the
> correct form - fine strips. Some folks will want to add some beaten eggs
> but I don't go there myself. :-) I'd like to add some scallops but have
> no idea on how to go about breaking scallops down into fine strips.

Slice them from the top (meaning the flat side) down into thin sheets.
Stack the sheets and slice again, with the grain, into fine strips.

On 1/21/2010 1:59 PM, Arri London wrote:
>
>
> dsi1 wrote:

> >I don't
>> usually have that Chinese ear fungus mushrooms but shitakes work ok. I
>> do think it important to keep the whatever you put in there in the
>> correct form - fine strips. Some folks will want to add some beaten eggs
>> but I don't go there myself. :-) I'd like to add some scallops but have
>> no idea on how to go about breaking scallops down into fine strips.
>
> Slice them from the top (meaning the flat side) down into thin sheets.
> Stack the sheets and slice again, with the grain, into fine strips.

This would seem to be a reasonable way of doing this however, what I've
seen is that in soups, the Chinese have a way of breaking down the
scallops into small bundles of fibers and not cut strips. My guess is
that they use dried scallops and break the fibers apart through blunt
forces rather than cutting it apart. The ways of the Chinese are most
mysterious...

dsi1 wrote:
> On 1/21/2010 1:59 PM, Arri London wrote:
>>
>>
>> dsi1 wrote:
>
>> >I don't
>>> usually have that Chinese ear fungus mushrooms but shitakes work ok. I
>>> do think it important to keep the whatever you put in there in the
>>> correct form - fine strips. Some folks will want to add some beaten eggs
>>> but I don't go there myself. :-) I'd like to add some scallops but have
>>> no idea on how to go about breaking scallops down into fine strips.
>>
>> Slice them from the top (meaning the flat side) down into thin sheets.
>> Stack the sheets and slice again, with the grain, into fine strips.
>
> This would seem to be a reasonable way of doing this however, what I've
> seen is that in soups, the Chinese have a way of breaking down the
> scallops into small bundles of fibers and not cut strips. My guess is
> that they use dried scallops and break the fibers apart through blunt
> forces rather than cutting it apart. The ways of the Chinese are most
> mysterious...

I think someone here cooked scallops in a soup until they became
thready.

--
Jean B.

dsi1 wrote:
>
> On 1/21/2010 1:59 PM, Arri London wrote:
> >
> >
> > dsi1 wrote:
>
> > >I don't
> >> usually have that Chinese ear fungus mushrooms but shitakes work ok. I
> >> do think it important to keep the whatever you put in there in the
> >> correct form - fine strips. Some folks will want to add some beaten eggs
> >> but I don't go there myself. :-) I'd like to add some scallops but have
> >> no idea on how to go about breaking scallops down into fine strips.
> >
> > Slice them from the top (meaning the flat side) down into thin sheets.
> > Stack the sheets and slice again, with the grain, into fine strips.
>
> This would seem to be a reasonable way of doing this however, what I've
> seen is that in soups, the Chinese have a way of breaking down the
> scallops into small bundles of fibers and not cut strips. My guess is
> that they use dried scallops and break the fibers apart through blunt
> forces rather than cutting it apart. The ways of the Chinese are most
> mysterious...


Never had scallops in hot and sour soup so can't comment. Dried scallops
are extremely expensive for what is essentially a dish meant to use
leftovers

On 1/23/2010 2:52 PM, Jean B. wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>> On 1/21/2010 1:59 PM, Arri London wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> dsi1 wrote:
>>
>>> >I don't
>>>> usually have that Chinese ear fungus mushrooms but shitakes work ok. I
>>>> do think it important to keep the whatever you put in there in the
>>>> correct form - fine strips. Some folks will want to add some beaten
>>>> eggs
>>>> but I don't go there myself. :-) I'd like to add some scallops but have
>>>> no idea on how to go about breaking scallops down into fine strips.
>>>
>>> Slice them from the top (meaning the flat side) down into thin sheets.
>>> Stack the sheets and slice again, with the grain, into fine strips.
>>
>> This would seem to be a reasonable way of doing this however, what
>> I've seen is that in soups, the Chinese have a way of breaking down
>> the scallops into small bundles of fibers and not cut strips. My guess
>> is that they use dried scallops and break the fibers apart through
>> blunt forces rather than cutting it apart. The ways of the Chinese are
>> most mysterious...
>
> I think someone here cooked scallops in a soup until they became thready.
>

This could be the way it's done. I don't like to over-cook scallops so
it's tough for me to see if this works.

On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 11:16:47 -0500, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

>Hello All!
>
>I note a recipe for Hot and Sour Soup by Jean B in r.f.recipes. It looks
>authentic using white pepper for heat. I wonder if any others are as
>horrible as me and prefer a hotter version using Sriracha sauce?

I frequently use various heat sources... sriracha among them.

Our pantry regularly stocks at least 3 hot sauces, 2 powdered heat
sources, 1 flaked heat source.

All of those and any bonus members of those groups frequently grace
hot and sour or whatever else seems appropriate at the moment.

Then there are other times a bit less heat is desired and we have used
store-ground black pepper or even mild mustard as the heat source of
choice.

Actual email is 'wblalok .at. xmission .dot. com' to reply
http://bit.ly/IJoTf holds my food blog, feel free to throw tomatoes

It is a cold (58F) and rainy day in Southern California -- A perfect day for
Hot and Sour Soup. Since some of the ingredients are not very common, I have
photos documenting the prep and the final bowl of soup.

http://www.panix.com/~clay/cookbook/...i?soup+recipe3

--
Clay Irving >
Sex: the thing that takes up the least amount of time and causes the most
amount of trouble.
- John Barrymore

On Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:46:00 +0000 (UTC), Clay Irving wrote:

> It is a cold (58F) and rainy day in Southern California -- A perfect day for
> Hot and Sour Soup. Since some of the ingredients are not very common, I have
> photos documenting the prep and the final bowl of soup.
>
> http://www.panix.com/~clay/cookbook/...i?soup+recipe3

looks like a fine bowl of soup, clay.

your pal,
blake

Clay Irving wrote:
> It is a cold (58F) and rainy day in Southern California -- A perfect day for
> Hot and Sour Soup. Since some of the ingredients are not very common, I have
> photos documenting the prep and the final bowl of soup.
>
> http://www.panix.com/~clay/cookbook/...i?soup+recipe3
>
Yum. I am also happy to see the brand of preserved vegetable. I
take that as a recommendation?

--
Jean B.

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:46:00 +0000 (UTC), Clay Irving wrote:
>
> > It is a cold (58F) and rainy day in Southern California -- A perfect day
> > for
> > Hot and Sour Soup. Since some of the ingredients are not very common, I
> > have
> > photos documenting the prep and the final bowl of soup.
> >
> > http://www.panix.com/~clay/cookbook/...i?soup+recipe3
>
> looks like a fine bowl of soup, clay.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Got snow? :-) Ours is coming. Kids at church made and sold Bigass(TM)
sub sandwiches as a fundraiser this morning between services. Soup o'
the day could be sour soup (pork base, sauerkraut juice), or the last of
the gumbo, or a pot of shicken soup with almost-as-good-as-homemade
noodles -- really skinny ones.

The beat goes on and we're sort of hunkering down.

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller; new entries posted 2-2-2010

On 2010-02-07, Jean B. > wrote:
> Clay Irving wrote:

>> It is a cold (58F) and rainy day in Southern California -- A perfect day for
>> Hot and Sour Soup. Since some of the ingredients are not very common, I have
>> photos documenting the prep and the final bowl of soup.
>>
>> http://www.panix.com/~clay/cookbook/...i?soup+recipe3

> Yum. I am also happy to see the brand of preserved vegetable. I
> take that as a recommendation?

Not really -- It seems to be the predominant brand of "jar choy", at least
here in the States.

--
Clay Irving >
ADMIRATION, n. Our polite recognition of another's resemblance to
ourselves.
- Ambrose Bierce

Clay Irving wrote:
>
> On 2010-02-07, Jean B. > wrote:
> > Clay Irving wrote:
>
> >> It is a cold (58F) and rainy day in Southern California -- A perfect day for
> >> Hot and Sour Soup. Since some of the ingredients are not very common, I have
> >> photos documenting the prep and the final bowl of soup.
> >>
> >> http://www.panix.com/~clay/cookbook/...i?soup+recipe3
>
> > Yum. I am also happy to see the brand of preserved vegetable. I
> > take that as a recommendation?
>
> Not really -- It seems to be the predominant brand of "jar choy", at least
> here in the States.
>


Glad you clarified what you used. Pickled mustard green (which tend to
be the leaves) and 'red in snow', which is what you specified, are not
the same thing. Our local Chinese supermarket carries the leafy sorts as
well as the stuff in the yellow and red tin.