"vale" > wrote in message
...
On Feb 1, 5:17?pm, "@" > wrote:
> "%" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "@" > wrote in
> > ...
>
> >> "%" > wrote in message
> om...
>
> >>> "@" > wrote in
> >>> ...
>
> >>>> "vale" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>> On Feb 1, 5:00?pm, "@" > wrote:
> >>>>> "vale" > wrote:
>
> >>>>> hi.
>
> >>>> I imagine trolling can be a tedious job...you must be really bored or
> >>>> really boring, which is it?
>
> >>>> What's your hat size
>
> >>> do you have a ring finger
>
> >> I left it behind at a shake and shingle mill.
>
> > how do you ring
>
> Same way Corny does.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Would you happen to know if being corny is a side effect of being in
stir? Because, I've never been in prison myself, have you?


Gee, vale baby, you seem to think there is something wrong with going to
prison. Because your good buddy John Sheffield of Orange Park Florida AAA
decks dock boatlifts goes to visit his buddy Darren Dorsey in prison, the
man who tried to kill his own five year old kid.

Eat shit, Vale. You are as phony and manipulative as the rest of the phony
and manipulative a'holes on this group. And that is my honest opinion of
you.


Published Thursday, June 15, 2006


Father sentenced after bid to kill son




By BRIDGET MURPHY
The Times-Union,


Each time Alicia Dorsey gets in her Dodge Durango and drives her son Cameron
somewhere, she's ready for the 6-year-old's questions to start all over
again.

"Do you drive safe, Mommy?"

"Why did my daddy drive so fast off the dock?"

"Mommy, why did Daddy try to kill me?"

The boy's father, Darren Dorsey, pleaded guilty Tuesday to attempted murder
and aggravated child abuse. It was nearly seven months after he and the boy
survived a murder-suicide attempt. The boy's mother said the questions about
what happened continue and, while he sees a counselor, Cameron still suffers
from anxiety and nightmares.

More crime and public safety coverage

Crime Around You: An occasional series on Jacksonville's homicide rate

The 39-year-old father drove his car off the end of a Doctors Lake dock in
November, trying to kill himself and his child, according to police reports.
Both survived after a bystander jumped in the water and plucked the crying
kindergartner from his booster seat and Dorsey climbed out the sunroof.

Darren Dorsey told the Times-Union in a jailhouse interview a day later that
he became depressed about his recent separation from his wife and legal
battles involving visitation with a son from an earlier relationship that
were bankrupting his family. The man, who was a reading teacher at Orange
Park Junior High, had a drug problem involving the anti-anxiety drug Xanax
and the anti-depressant drug Prozac, his wife said in a petition for a
protective order to keep him away from the boy after the incident.

Alicia Dorsey now is busy rebuilding her family's lives without him, she
said Wednesday morning while preparing to head to the Clay County courthouse
to sign papers that will make her divorce from Darren Dorsey final.

The 36-year-old woman was in court Tuesday and heard the man's apology at
the sentencing, but she said she has no regrets about him going to prison
and wishes he had received a stiffer sentence. Darren Dorsey will serve five
years in state prison before two years of house arrest and five years of
probation, according to authorities.

The man's mental health problems were a mitigating factor in the sentence,
Assistant State Attorney Rebecca Zima said Wednesday.

"My thoughts are, there are no excuses," Alicia Dorsey said Wednesday. "The
drugs did not pull him into the water. Alcohol did not pull him into the
water. Selfishness made him do it."

By the time Darren Dorsey is finished serving his sentence, Cameron could be
nearly 17. Between now and then, Alicia Dorsey expects he'll ask a lot more
questions.

But she said Wednesday she knows the toughest questions her son will ask
will come years later, when he has to decide as an adult whether to let the
father who tried to kill him back into his life.

bridget.murphyjacksonville.com, (904) 359-4161

On Feb 2, 1:10�am, "@" > wrote:
> "vale" > wrote in message
>


But why is a man who actually went to prison badmouthing and
pretending he is more moral than everyone else? You are a fake fake
fake hypocrite and only out for yourself Patrick and that is my honest
opinion of you. And anything you've gotten in life or still have
coming to you will be only your just desserts so Eat That!!!

"vale" > wrote in message
...
On Feb 2, 1:10?am, "@" > wrote:
> "vale" > wrote in message
>


But why is a man who actually went to prison badmouthing and
pretending he is more moral than everyone else? You are a fake fake
fake hypocrite and only out for yourself Patrick and that is my honest
opinion of you. And anything you've gotten in life or still have
coming to you will be only your just desserts so Eat That!!!


How come you hang with an old man who admitted to walking and talking a 19
year old teen through her suicide? http://www.suzygonzales.com/about.html

You suck, Vale. You are just like Sheffield, phony and a fraud. That is what
I think of you. Anyone who defends that creep, Sheffield, will become just
as tainted and evil as he is.

On Feb 2, 1:29�am, "@" > wrote:
> "vale" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Feb 2, 1:10?am, "@" > wrote:
>
> > "vale" > wrote in message
>
> But why is a man who actually went to prison badmouthing and
> pretending he is more moral than everyone else? �You are a fake fake
> fake hypocrite and only out for yourself Patrick and that is my honest
> opinion of you. �And anything you've gotten in life or still have
> coming to you will be only your just desserts so Eat That!!!
>
> How come you hang with an old man who admitted to walking and talking a 19
> year old teen through her suicide?http://www.suzygonzales.com/about.html
>
> You suck, Vale. You are just like Sheffield, phony and a fraud. That is what
> I think of you. Anyone who defends that creep, Sheffield, will become just
> as tainted and evil as he is.

You don't know me fool but I have more heart and integrity than a
slimy little cowardly creep like you will ever have. I don't think I
defended him, I said I forgave him and I said he made a mistake and so
have I in life and so have you. But, you aren't one to admit to your
mistakes, you like to brag about them until you think you are some hot
shit guy. You are nothing to me. No words you learned along the way
to pump up your pathetic sagging self esteem have any effect on me.
I'll tell you something about John, he listens and he is fun and I
became friends with him before I knew about Suzy. And, I think Suzy
didn't like some of you either because you are control freak bullies
and that's why you are jealous of John. If you didn't put me in the
middle of it, I wouldn't be in the middle of it because I didn't do
anything to you. But, you are some raging lunatic that likes to argue
with people. I have said time and time again I have not and will not
assist or support anyone to suicide. I am honest with John about this
and if he is doing something I don't understand
I ask him about it. Better John has me for a friend because I am only
interested in helping him be a good person and he the same for me.
Better John's relative in prison has him for a friend because when he
gets out of prison he won't feel like he is no longer part of society
and he will be able to adjust and hopefully become a good citizen.
You who know no Mercy will be given none Patrick. You have done evil
by falsely accusing me and by outting people. You shame everyone that
has every known you and given you a break when you were down on your
luck.

"vale" > wrote:
>
> You don't know me



I know enough about you to think you are an asshole and as manipulative as
John. And I know enough about your friend (John) to think that the person
you associate with (John) is a ****ing son of a bitch. And if he did that to
my daughter and I had nothing more to lose, I would gut the son of a bitch
like I would gut a salmon, right from the asshole up. End of story.

On Feb 2, 1:56�am, "@" > wrote:
> "vale" > wrote:
>
> > You don't know me
>
> I know enough about you to think you are an asshole and as manipulative as
> John. And I know enough about your friend (John) to think that the person
> you associate with (John) is a ****ing son of a bitch. And if he did that to
> my daughter and I had nothing more to lose, I would gut the son of a bitch
> like I would gut a salmon, right from the asshole up. End of story.

I'm not manipulative you are trying to distort the facts and you are
being manipulative. I think Suzies parents like most parents would
like to blame everyone but themselves for what happened. And, I'm
sorry it happened but what you are doing doesn't help at all. I don't
think it's a good idea at all for John to help write emails or offer
drugs to people not only because it could come back on him but also
because I think people who are suicidal think they are caterpillars
and not worth much and instead of just leaving it like it would be
nice if we all could help them with their problems and help find the
butterflies they have inside. But, you know people here are suicidal
and they aren't going to be hypocritical and tell people they can't do
something that they want to do. And, people here aren't professional
therapists who know exactly what the right thing is to say. And, I'm
not guilty for whatever John did anymore than % is responsible for
your crimes. If you gave me a chance to understand I would understand
that you did things too which you may now wish you hadn't done. But,
people grow up and hopefully can admit when the things they are doing
aren't turning out right. And, some people never learn. And,
sometimes in certain circumstances it is the morals that are at fault
and not the people. But, it's God's job not mine to judge other
people. I am not always here defending John, I am mostly here just
trying to get support and be supportive of other people and to read
the interesting posts other people make. But, I'm not welcome to
Patrick's little tea party that he is having with his sockpuppet
friends.

On Feb 2, 1:56�am, "@" > wrote:
> "vale" > wrote:
>
> > You don't know me
>
> I know enough about you to think you are an asshole and as manipulative as
> John. And I know enough about your friend (John) to think that the person
> you associate with (John) is a ****ing son of a bitch. And if he did that to
> my daughter and I had nothing more to lose, I would gut the son of a bitch
> like I would gut a salmon, right from the asshole up. End of story.

Hi Patrick, I don't want to argue with you again today. I just wanted
to tell you that when you said that thing in a roundabout way about
gutting John like a salmon it made me feel afraid that you want to
seriously hurt John and maybe even me just because I'm friends with
him. I know you have been hurt by people but I have been hurt just as
badly as you have and I don't want to hurt you or anyone else. I
guess you make me feel that I have to defend everything I do and that
makes me feel defensive and defiant about what you are accusing me of
because I'm not that person you are accusing me of being (that's why I
wrote that silly River poem about Ash to be defiant). I wanted to let
you know that if you or anyone else tries to 'out' me like you did the
other people here that a suicidal alter might go into a panic and kill
us because of this because we can't stand any more emotional pain. I
was/am only trying to be a true friend and help someone see things
from a different viewpoint and part of that road to understanding was
paved with forgiveness both on my part and on the part of John.
Again, I thank you for whatever genuine concern you had for me and I
hope you understand I am not trying to be enemies with anyone here,
including you. I wish you would just let me be or it's ok if you want
to talk to me here as long as you are being nice and it's not about
John. If you want to bait me anymore I'm not going to bite but if you
want to just talk I'm up for that. I had to run away from a child
molester when I was 12 and that lead to me being locked up for a long
time for running away. And, it also put me into places with much older
kids that were hardened criminals and that changed the course of my
life forever. So, I do understand about places like where you've been
and I do understand about how you've had to do what you've had to do
to survive and I don't judge you either. I just ask that you trust
when I tell you that I've been around and that I'm only trying to do
good by myself and everyone here. Please don't get so angry with me
because I'm not going along with your agenda. I/we have own minds and
we were the people you see now way before we came here so we aren't
being influenced by anyone. Peace.

On Feb 2, 2:27 am, vale > wrote:
> On Feb 2, 1:56 am, "@" > wrote:
>
> > "vale" > wrote:
>
> > > You don't know me
>
> > I know enough about you to think you are an asshole and as manipulative as
> > John. And I know enough about your friend (John) to think that the person
> > you associate with (John) is a ****ing son of a bitch. And if he did that to
> > my daughter and I had nothing more to lose, I would gut the son of a bitch
> > like I would gut a salmon, right from the asshole up. End of story.
>
> I'm not manipulative you are trying to distort the facts and you are
> being manipulative.

The more I see of your postings which you write to me, the more I
recognize that you are HIGHLY manipulative. Ok? And I don't buy a word
you say to me, because it is all pathetic manipulative and utter
bullshit. And I put you in with the top 10 manipulators now posting on
this hell-hole of a group.


> I think Suzies parents like most parents would
> like to blame everyone but themselves for what happened.

Here we go again! Yes, blame Mike and Mary Gonzales, huh? Pathetic! A
little info about Suzy: She was a happy person most of her life. She
was described as having an infectious smile and she seemed to be
pretty well adjusted. But something happened to her when she traveled
across the USA to attend school in Florida. She became depressed. And
instead of reaching out to her family (who had no idea she was sad and
depressed) she instead made contact with alt.suicide.holiday and
alt.suicide.methods and the psychopaths who dwell here. And she was
also in private conversations with your friend, John, who also made
public postings to her such as saying he wanted her to leave us if it
would bring her peace. After Suzy did kill herself, John stated in yet
another posting that he walked and talked Suzy through her suicide.
Suzy was 19 years old when she died. John was 50 years old, married,
and John also had a son 1.5 year younger that Suzy. Although he never
mentioned John's name, Mike Gonzales stated on an internet radio show
that John became Suzy's surrogate father figure and guided Suzy to her
death. That sounds about right to me.

I'll make it 100% clear again, Vale, I can't stand John. I think he is
a poisonous son of a bitch. And it's hard to believe that anyone would
defend John after what he did to Suzy. And then to make matters worse,
we read that John admitted to offering to send you suicide drugs (THE
DARVON COCKTAIL) so you could kill yourself.

Put yourself in the shoes of the Gonzales family, Vale. Ask yourself
how you would feel if this happened to your daughter. And then there
is the smear John posted about Suzy after she died, about her being
"bi". And how about John's posting saying that the real pallbearers at
Suzy's funeral were ashers. Puke! Not one of the f'ing ASH scumbags
attended Suzy's memorial service. But the family *did*! Yeah, you bet
they did, because *they* were the only ones who truly cared about
their daughter.

So to hell with you all. You are all a buncha muggers.

[rest of Vale's manipulative bullshit and blather has been snipped and
flushed]

On Feb 2, 3:06 pm, vale > wrote:
> On Feb 2, 1:56 am, "@" > wrote:
>
> > "vale" > wrote:
>
> > > You don't know me
>
> > I know enough about you to think you are an asshole and as manipulative as
> > John. And I know enough about your friend (John) to think that the person
> > you associate with (John) is a ****ing son of a bitch. And if he did that to
> > my daughter and I had nothing more to lose, I would gut the son of a bitch
> > like I would gut a salmon, right from the asshole up. End of story.
>
> Hi Patrick, I don't want to argue with you again today. I just wanted
> to tell you that when you said that thing in a roundabout way about
> gutting John like a salmon it made me feel afraid that you want to
> seriously hurt John

Call the cops.

> and maybe even me just because I'm friends with
> him

AND THE ACADEMY AWARD FOR DRAMA GOES TO - "Vale" aka vale_of_light
@yahoo.com

Knock it off with the drama, Vale. It's just another form of
manipulation. And I don't buy into any of it. And trying to fool
people like this only makes you look amazingly stupid. You might be
able to manipulate John like this, but you can't do the same to me.

"Chickity China The Chinese Chicken" > wrote in
message
...
> On Feb 2, 2:27 am, vale > wrote:
>> On Feb 2, 1:56 am, "@" > wrote:
>>
>> > "vale" > wrote:
>>
>> > > You don't know me
>>
>> > I know enough about you to think you are an asshole and as manipulative
>> > as
>> > John. And I know enough about your friend (John) to think that the
>> > person
>> > you associate with (John) is a ****ing son of a bitch. And if he did
>> > that to
>> > my daughter and I had nothing more to lose, I would gut the son of a
>> > bitch
>> > like I would gut a salmon, right from the asshole up. End of story.
>>
>> I'm not manipulative you are trying to distort the facts and you are
>> being manipulative.
>
> The more I see of your postings which you write to me, the more I
> recognize that you are HIGHLY manipulative. Ok? And I don't buy a word
> you say to me, because it is all pathetic manipulative and utter
> bullshit. And I put you in with the top 10 manipulators now posting on
> this hell-hole of a group.
>
>
>> I think Suzies parents like most parents would
>> like to blame everyone but themselves for what happened.
>
> Here we go again! Yes, blame Mike and Mary Gonzales, huh? Pathetic! A
> little info about Suzy: She was a happy person most of her life. She
> was described as having an infectious smile and she seemed to be
> pretty well adjusted. But something happened to her when she traveled
> across the USA to attend school in Florida. She became depressed. And
> instead of reaching out to her family (who had no idea she was sad and
> depressed) she instead made contact with alt.suicide.holiday and
> alt.suicide.methods and the psychopaths who dwell here. And she was
> also in private conversations with your friend, John, who also made
> public postings to her such as saying he wanted her to leave us if it
> would bring her peace. After Suzy did kill herself, John stated in yet
> another posting that he walked and talked Suzy through her suicide.
> Suzy was 19 years old when she died. John was 50 years old, married,
> and John also had a son 1.5 year younger that Suzy. Although he never
> mentioned John's name, Mike Gonzales stated on an internet radio show
> that John became Suzy's surrogate father figure and guided Suzy to her
> death. That sounds about right to me.
>
> I'll make it 100% clear again, Vale, I can't stand John. I think he is
> a poisonous son of a bitch. And it's hard to believe that anyone would
> defend John after what he did to Suzy. And then to make matters worse,
> we read that John admitted to offering to send you suicide drugs (THE
> DARVON COCKTAIL) so you could kill yourself.
>
> Put yourself in the shoes of the Gonzales family, Vale. Ask yourself
> how you would feel if this happened to your daughter. And then there
> is the smear John posted about Suzy after she died, about her being
> "bi". And how about John's posting saying that the real pallbearers at
> Suzy's funeral were ashers. Puke! Not one of the f'ing ASH scumbags
> attended Suzy's memorial service. But the family *did*! Yeah, you bet
> they did, because *they* were the only ones who truly cared about
> their daughter.
>
> So to hell with you all. You are all a buncha muggers.
>
> [rest of Vale's manipulative bullshit and blather has been snipped and
> flushed]



did you woot

On Feb 2, 6:06*pm, vale > wrote:
> On Feb 2, 1:56 am, "@" > wrote:
>
> > "vale" > wrote:
>
> > > You don't know me
>
> > I know enough about you to think you are an asshole and as manipulative as
> > John. And I know enough about your friend (John) to think that the person
> > you associate with (John) is a ****ing son of a bitch. And if he did that to
> > my daughter and I had nothing more to lose, I would gut the son of a bitch
> > like I would gut a salmon, right from the asshole up. End of story.
>
> Hi Patrick, I don't want to argue with you again today. *I just wanted
> to tell you that when you said that thing in a roundabout way about
> gutting John like a salmon it made me feel afraid that you want to
> seriously hurt John and maybe even me just because I'm friends with
> him. *I know you have been hurt by people but I have been hurt just as
> badly as you have and I don't want to hurt you or anyone else. *I
> guess you make me feel that I have to defend everything I do and that
> makes me feel defensive and defiant about what you are accusing me of
> because I'm not that person you are accusing me of being (that's why I
> wrote that silly River poem about Ash to be defiant). *I wanted to let
> you know that if you or anyone else tries to 'out' me like you did the
> other people here that a suicidal alter might go into a panic and kill
> us because of this because we can't stand any more emotional pain. *I
> was/am only trying to be a true friend and help someone see things
> from a different viewpoint and part of that road to understanding was
> paved with forgiveness both on my part and on the part of John.
> Again, I thank you for whatever genuine concern you had for me and I
> hope you understand I am not trying to be enemies with anyone here,
> including you. I wish you would just let me be or it's ok if you want
> to talk to me here as long as you are being nice and it's not about
> John. *If you want to bait me anymore I'm not going to bite but if you
> want to just talk I'm up for that. *I had to run away from a child
> molester when I was 12 and that lead to me being locked up for a long
> time for running away. And, it also put me into places with much older
> kids that were hardened criminals and that changed the course of my
> life forever. *So, I do understand about places like where you've been
> and I do understand about how you've had to do what you've had to do
> to survive and I don't judge you either. *I just ask that you trust
> when I tell you that I've been around and that I'm only trying to do
> good by myself and everyone here. *Please don't get so angry with me
> because I'm not going along with your agenda. *I/we have own minds and
> we were the people you see now way before we came here so we aren't
> being influenced by anyone. *Peace.

You're too cool Vale. The only reason Patrick is ****ed at
you is because you have nailed him so thoroughly.
luvya sweetie!

river

"mario707707" > wrote in message
...
On Feb 2, 6:06 pm, vale > wrote:
> On Feb 2, 1:56 am, "@" > wrote:
>
> > "vale" > wrote:
>
> > > You don't know me
>
> > I know enough about you to think you are an asshole and as manipulative
> > as
> > John. And I know enough about your friend (John) to think that the
> > person
> > you associate with (John) is a ****ing son of a bitch. And if he did
> > that to
> > my daughter and I had nothing more to lose, I would gut the son of a
> > bitch
> > like I would gut a salmon, right from the asshole up. End of story.
>
> Hi Patrick, I don't want to argue with you again today. I just wanted
> to tell you that when you said that thing in a roundabout way about
> gutting John like a salmon it made me feel afraid that you want to
> seriously hurt John and maybe even me just because I'm friends with
> him. I know you have been hurt by people but I have been hurt just as
> badly as you have and I don't want to hurt you or anyone else. I
> guess you make me feel that I have to defend everything I do and that
> makes me feel defensive and defiant about what you are accusing me of
> because I'm not that person you are accusing me of being (that's why I
> wrote that silly River poem about Ash to be defiant). I wanted to let
> you know that if you or anyone else tries to 'out' me like you did the
> other people here that a suicidal alter might go into a panic and kill
> us because of this because we can't stand any more emotional pain. I
> was/am only trying to be a true friend and help someone see things
> from a different viewpoint and part of that road to understanding was
> paved with forgiveness both on my part and on the part of John.
> Again, I thank you for whatever genuine concern you had for me and I
> hope you understand I am not trying to be enemies with anyone here,
> including you. I wish you would just let me be or it's ok if you want
> to talk to me here as long as you are being nice and it's not about
> John. If you want to bait me anymore I'm not going to bite but if you
> want to just talk I'm up for that. I had to run away from a child
> molester when I was 12 and that lead to me being locked up for a long
> time for running away. And, it also put me into places with much older
> kids that were hardened criminals and that changed the course of my
> life forever. So, I do understand about places like where you've been
> and I do understand about how you've had to do what you've had to do
> to survive and I don't judge you either. I just ask that you trust
> when I tell you that I've been around and that I'm only trying to do
> good by myself and everyone here. Please don't get so angry with me
> because I'm not going along with your agenda. I/we have own minds and
> we were the people you see now way before we came here so we aren't
> being influenced by anyone. Peace.

You're too cool Vale. The only reason Patrick is ****ed at
you is because you have nailed him so thoroughly.
luvya sweetie!

river


pa pa dra ma

On Feb 2, 4:56�pm, Chickity China The Chinese Chicken
> wrote:
> On Feb 2, 3:06 > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 2, 1:56 am, "@" > wrote:
>
> > > "vale" > wrote:
>
> > > > You don't know me
>
> > > I know enough about you to think you are an asshole and as manipulative as
> > > John. And I know enough about your friend (John) to think that the person
> > > you associate with (John) is a ****ing son of a bitch. And if he did that to
> > > my daughter and I had nothing more to lose, I would gut the son of a bitch
> > > like I would gut a salmon, right from the asshole up. End of story.
>
> > Hi Patrick, I don't want to argue with you again today. �I just wanted
> > to tell you that when you said that thing in a roundabout way about
> > gutting John like a salmon it made me feel afraid that you want to
> > seriously hurt John
>
> Call the cops.
>
> > and maybe even me just because I'm friends with
> > him
>
> AND THE ACADEMY AWARD FOR DRAMA GOES TO - "Vale" aka vale_of_light
> @yahoo.com
>
> Knock it off with the drama,Vale. It's just another form of
> manipulation. And I don't buy into any of it. And trying to fool
> people like this only makes you look amazingly stupid. You might be
> able to manipulate John like this, but you can't do the same to me.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You're silly Pat...I'm not trying to man nipple ate you because I
don't have man nipples. You do...at least I think you do...you could
have whirly girly nips.

On Feb 2, 4:54�pm, Chickity China The Chinese Chicken
> wrote:
> On Feb 2, 2:27 > wrote:
>
> > On Feb 2, 1:56 am, "@" > wrote:
>
> > > "vale" > wrote:
>
> > > > You don't know me
>
> > > I know enough about you to think you are an asshole and as manipulative as
> > > John. And I know enough about your friend (John) to think that the person
> > > you associate with (John) is a ****ing son of a bitch. And if he did that to
> > > my daughter and I had nothing more to lose, I would gut the son of a bitch
> > > like I would gut a salmon, right from the asshole up. End of story.
>
> > I'm not manipulative you are trying to distort the facts and you are
> > being manipulative.
>
> The more I see of your postings which you write to me, the more I
> recognize that you are HIGHLY manipulative. Ok? And I don't buy a word
> you say to me, because it is all pathetic manipulative and utter
> bullshit. And I put you in with the top 10 manipulators now posting on
> this hell-hole of a group.

*Whatever, I just realized from what you said how dangerous you are
and I thought I would try to see if I could calm you down out of your
delusions before more lifes were destroyed or even lost because of
your harassment and 'outting' of suicidal people on your quest to
avenge Suzy's suicide. I even offered to talk to you about your
prison experiences because I thought maybe that was the reason you are
here venting your spleen on suicidal people. At least I tried to make
peace with you but I was afraid if I did that it would only serve to
embolden you (which it did). Just because I speak better than you
does not make me manipulative. I think John should report your fish
gutting post to the FBI.

>
> > I think Suzies parents like most parents would
> > like to blame everyone but themselves for what happened.
>
> Here we go again! Yes, blame Mike and Mary Gonzales, huh? Pathetic! A
> little info about Suzy: She was a happy person most of her life. She
> was described as having an infectious smile and she seemed to be
> pretty well adjusted. But something happened to her when she traveled
> across the USA to attend school in Florida. She became depressed. And
> instead of reaching out to her family (who had no idea she was sad and
> depressed) she instead made contact with alt.suicide.holiday and
> alt.suicide.methods and the psychopaths who dwell here. And she was
> also in private conversations with your friend, John, who also made
> public postings to her such as saying he wanted her to leave us if it
> would bring her peace. After Suzy did kill herself, John stated in yet
> another posting that he walked and talked Suzy through her suicide.
> Suzy was 19 years old when she died. John was 50 years old, married,
> and John also had a son 1.5 year younger that Suzy. Although he never
> mentioned John's name, Mike Gonzales stated on an internet radio show
> that John became Suzy's surrogate father figure and guided Suzy to her
> death. That sounds about right to me.

*I think that is true about many parents in general to some degree.
If their kid does something great it's because of them and if their
kid does something not so great then it's someone elses fault. I'm
sure Suzy's parents were good parents but maybe they didn't understand
the stress she was under. The story I heard was that Suzy was held to
high rigid academic standards both by herself and her family and when
she went to her new college she didn't do as well as she hoped and
that caused her to feel suicidal because she was afraid of
disappointing everyone's high expectations. I heard she came to Ash
with plan in hand and she involved other people in doing her
extraneous tasks like email forwarding/writing for her. I was also
told that she asked someone else to join her but this person
declined. I don't how much of this is true or what actually happened
I wasn't there...but from all I've heard and read Suzy was extremely
well versed on the subject, very determined, and lied to a Jewelry
Supply Company to order poison from them. As far as I can tell she
didn't need a guide, she just didn't want to go it alone.

I don't believe in encouraging suicide. I've asked John and he said
he didn't encourage Suzy in any way. Also, is "the walking and
talking through suicide" taken out of context or is that the entire
quote? If it is the entire quote then that was a weird thing for him
to say since from what he told me that's not what he did. I'm not
here to vouch for everything John ever did or said and I don't think
he is perfect and I do think he made a mistake by helping Suzy with
anything and I don't think he plans on doing it again.
>
> I'll make it 100% clear again,Vale, I can't stand John. I think he is
> a poisonous son of a bitch. And it's hard to believe that anyone would
> defend John after what he did to Suzy. And then to make matters worse,
> we read that John admitted to offering to send you suicide drugs (THE
> DARVON COCKTAIL) so you could kill yourself.

*He offered that because I am physically sick and I don't believe that
he did that with malice. The thing is as I've said earlier I said
"No" to the offer. Also, I don't agree with people doing extraneous
tasks for the suicidal. When I've talked to him to tell him that's
how I feel he accepted that from me which is remarkable considering
how you make him out to be. He didn't do anything against the law but
what he did wasn't necessary and it wasn't something I would have
done. I did feel a responsibilty to help him see things in a
different light and I think I did that. Nothing, else I could have
done would have mattered. Raging at him like you do doesn't help
doesn't help much does it? Mostly, you are just using him to take
your rage out on other people not him anyway. He could just come in
here with a bunch of different nyms like you do if he wanted so how
does it help to sound off so many warnings about him? I think he was
worried about the rights of suicidal people but I told him that
suicidal people don't have a right to involve others in any part of
their suicide plans and he should give some thought to staying out of
it from now on. As I've said before it's ok to talk to people about
their lifes and problems but that's as far as I'm willing to go. I
think most emotional type problems can be worked out and that people
shouldn't let feeling bad today determine the rest of their lifes for
them.
>
> Put yourself in the shoes of the Gonzales family,Vale. Ask yourself
> how you would feel if this happened to your daughter. And then there
> is the smear John posted about Suzy after she died, about her being
> "bi". And how about John's posting saying that the real pallbearers at
> Suzy's funeral were ashers. Puke! Not one of the f'ing ASH scumbags
> attended Suzy's memorial service. But the family *did*! Yeah, you bet
> they did, because *they* were the only ones who truly cared about
> their daughter.
>

*I never heard of that and it sounds like unkind talk that shouldn't
have been said to the Gonzales. John has said some things to me too,
so have you. I've said some things to both of you in return. You
will have to ask him why he said that because I don't always
understand how either one of you think. You aren't part of the
Gonzales family Patrick so why are you still beating people with it
after so many years, are you just trying to make a name for yourself
or is Mike Gonzales behind this harassment also?

> So to hell with you all. You are all a buncha muggers.

*No one will ever believe you give a damn about anyone here but
yourself if that's how you talk to someone who is suicidal and who is
trying to help but just not in a way that will make you seem like a
big shoot. Like I said you are a hypocrite Patrick.

"vale" > wrote in message
...
On Feb 2, 4:56�pm, Chickity China The Chinese Chicken
> wrote:
> On Feb 2, 3:06 > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 2, 1:56 am, "@" > wrote:
>
> > > "vale" > wrote:
>
> > > > You don't know me
>
> > > I know enough about you to think you are an asshole and as
> > > manipulative as
> > > John. And I know enough about your friend (John) to think that the
> > > person
> > > you associate with (John) is a ****ing son of a bitch. And if he did
> > > that to
> > > my daughter and I had nothing more to lose, I would gut the son of a
> > > bitch
> > > like I would gut a salmon, right from the asshole up. End of story.
>
> > Hi Patrick, I don't want to argue with you again today. �I just wanted
> > to tell you that when you said that thing in a roundabout way about
> > gutting John like a salmon it made me feel afraid that you want to
> > seriously hurt John
>
> Call the cops.
>
> > and maybe even me just because I'm friends with
> > him
>
> AND THE ACADEMY AWARD FOR DRAMA GOES TO - "Vale" aka vale_of_light
> @yahoo.com
>
> Knock it off with the drama,Vale. It's just another form of
> manipulation. And I don't buy into any of it. And trying to fool
> people like this only makes you look amazingly stupid. You might be
> able to manipulate John like this, but you can't do the same to me.- Hide
> quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You're silly Pat...I'm not trying to man nipple ate you because I
don't have man nipples. You do...at least I think you do...you could
have whirly girly nips.


did you say that with a slight titter

On Feb 3, 2:31�pm, "%" > wrote:

>
> > Knock it off with the drama,Vale. It's just another form of
> > manipulation. And I don't buy into any of it. And trying to fool
> > people like this only makes you look amazingly stupid. You might be
> > able to manipulate John like this, but you can't do the same to me.- Hide
> > quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> You're silly Pat...I'm not trying to man nipple ate you because I
> don't have man nipples. �You do...at least I think you do...you could
> have whirly girly nips.
>
> did you say that with a slight titter- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

of course!

On Feb 3, 3:00�pm, "%" > wrote:
> "vale" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Feb 3, 2:31 pm, "%" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Knock it off with the drama,Vale. It's just another form of
> > > manipulation. And I don't buy into any of it. And trying to fool
> > > people like this only makes you look amazingly stupid. You might be
> > > able to manipulate John like this, but you can't do the same to me.-
> > > Hide
> > > quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > You're silly Pat...I'm not trying to man nipple ate you because I
> > don't have man nipples. You do...at least I think you do...you could
> > have whirly girly nips.
>
> > did you say that with a slight titter- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> of course!
>
> i had a feeling you did- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I had a feeling you did too.

"vale" > wrote in message
...
On Feb 3, 2:31�pm, "%" > wrote:

>
> > Knock it off with the drama,Vale. It's just another form of
> > manipulation. And I don't buy into any of it. And trying to fool
> > people like this only makes you look amazingly stupid. You might be
> > able to manipulate John like this, but you can't do the same to me.-
> > Hide
> > quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> You're silly Pat...I'm not trying to man nipple ate you because I
> don't have man nipples. �You do...at least I think you do...you could
> have whirly girly nips.
>
> did you say that with a slight titter- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

of course!


i had a feeling you did

"vale" > wrote in message
...
On Feb 3, 3:00�pm, "%" > wrote:
> "vale" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Feb 3, 2:31 pm, "%" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Knock it off with the drama,Vale. It's just another form of
> > > manipulation. And I don't buy into any of it. And trying to fool
> > > people like this only makes you look amazingly stupid. You might be
> > > able to manipulate John like this, but you can't do the same to me.-
> > > Hide
> > > quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > You're silly Pat...I'm not trying to man nipple ate you because I
> > don't have man nipples. You do...at least I think you do...you could
> > have whirly girly nips.
>
> > did you say that with a slight titter- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> of course!
>
> i had a feeling you did- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I had a feeling you did too.


you did , wha'd it feel like

On Feb 3, 3:04�pm, "%" > wrote:
> "vale" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Feb 3, 3:00 pm, "%" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "vale" > wrote in message
>
> ....
> > On Feb 3, 2:31 pm, "%" > wrote:
>
> > > > Knock it off with the drama,Vale. It's just another form of
> > > > manipulation. And I don't buy into any of it. And trying to fool
> > > > people like this only makes you look amazingly stupid. You might be
> > > > able to manipulate John like this, but you can't do the same to me.-
> > > > Hide
> > > > quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > You're silly Pat...I'm not trying to man nipple ate you because I
> > > don't have man nipples. You do...at least I think you do...you could
> > > have whirly girly nips.
>
> > > did you say that with a slight titter- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > of course!
>
> > i had a feeling you did- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I had a feeling you did too.
>
> you did , wha'd it feel like- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

you tell me, it feels better to laugh than to let a angry stranger try
to make me as miserable as he is.

On Feb 3, 3:11�pm, "%" > wrote:
> "vale" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Feb 3, 3:04 pm, "%" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "vale" > wrote in message
>
> ....
> > On Feb 3, 3:00 pm, "%" > wrote:
>
> > > "vale" > wrote in message
>
> > ....
> > > On Feb 3, 2:31 pm, "%" > wrote:
>
> > > > > Knock it off with the drama,Vale. It's just another form of
> > > > > manipulation. And I don't buy into any of it. And trying to fool
> > > > > people like this only makes you look amazingly stupid. You might be
> > > > > able to manipulate John like this, but you can't do the same to me.-
> > > > > Hide
> > > > > quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > You're silly Pat...I'm not trying to man nipple ate you because I
> > > > don't have man nipples. You do...at least I think you do...you could
> > > > have whirly girly nips.
>
> > > > did you say that with a slight titter- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > of course!
>
> > > i had a feeling you did- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I had a feeling you did too.
>
> > you did , wha'd it feel like- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> you tell me, it feels better to laugh than to let a angry stranger try
> to make me as miserable as he is.
>
> i always laugh- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

That's good. Can you laugh at yourself as well as others?

"vale" > wrote in message
...
On Feb 3, 3:04�pm, "%" > wrote:
> "vale" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Feb 3, 3:00 pm, "%" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "vale" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > On Feb 3, 2:31 pm, "%" > wrote:
>
> > > > Knock it off with the drama,Vale. It's just another form of
> > > > manipulation. And I don't buy into any of it. And trying to fool
> > > > people like this only makes you look amazingly stupid. You might be
> > > > able to manipulate John like this, but you can't do the same to me.-
> > > > Hide
> > > > quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > You're silly Pat...I'm not trying to man nipple ate you because I
> > > don't have man nipples. You do...at least I think you do...you could
> > > have whirly girly nips.
>
> > > did you say that with a slight titter- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > of course!
>
> > i had a feeling you did- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I had a feeling you did too.
>
> you did , wha'd it feel like- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

you tell me, it feels better to laugh than to let a angry stranger try
to make me as miserable as he is.


i always laugh

"vale" > wrote in message
...
On Feb 3, 3:11�pm, "%" > wrote:
> "vale" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Feb 3, 3:04 pm, "%" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "vale" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > On Feb 3, 3:00 pm, "%" > wrote:
>
> > > "vale" > wrote in message
>
> > ...
> > > On Feb 3, 2:31 pm, "%" > wrote:
>
> > > > > Knock it off with the drama,Vale. It's just another form of
> > > > > manipulation. And I don't buy into any of it. And trying to fool
> > > > > people like this only makes you look amazingly stupid. You might
> > > > > be
> > > > > able to manipulate John like this, but you can't do the same to
> > > > > me.-
> > > > > Hide
> > > > > quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > You're silly Pat...I'm not trying to man nipple ate you because I
> > > > don't have man nipples. You do...at least I think you do...you could
> > > > have whirly girly nips.
>
> > > > did you say that with a slight titter- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > of course!
>
> > > i had a feeling you did- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I had a feeling you did too.
>
> > you did , wha'd it feel like- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> you tell me, it feels better to laugh than to let a angry stranger try
> to make me as miserable as he is.
>
> i always laugh- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

That's good. Can you laugh at yourself as well as others?


i laugh at me the most you should see the stuff i get into

On Feb 3, 3:32�pm, "%" > wrote:
> "vale" > wrote in message
>
> That's good. �Can you laugh at yourself as well as others?
>
> i laugh at me the most you should see the stuff i get into- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

all ritey then! Where do I go to see it? Because I like to laugh too.

"vale" > wrote in message
...
On Feb 3, 3:32�pm, "%" > wrote:
> "vale" > wrote in message
>
> That's good. �Can you laugh at yourself as well as others?
>
> i laugh at me the most you should see the stuff i get into- Hide quoted
> text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

all ritey then! Where do I go to see it? Because I like to laugh too.


just wait until the next time i do it and i'll tell you about it