....in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I had
back there was a few assorted bottles of red.

It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I
wonder if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might just
be good for cooking...

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I had
> back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>
> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I wonder
> if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might just be good
> for cooking...

It should be vinegar. Almost all white wines should be less than 3 years
old.

cybercat wrote:
> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
> ...
>> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I had
>> back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>>
>> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I wonder
>> if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might just be good
>> for cooking...
>
> It should be vinegar. Almost all white wines should be less than 3 years
> old.
>
>


Requires oxygen to turn to vinegar.

I drank it; it had no "fruit" left at all, but at least it didn't
taste like oak. It wasn't objectionable and I got a buzz, but it
would have been a lot nicer to drink 10 years ago.

Bob

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I had
> back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>
> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I wonder
> if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might just be good
> for cooking...

You drink Chardonnay warm? CHill it, serve it up. You could be surprised.
It could also be totally sour. Is the color straw or more yellow?

Paul

Paul M. Cook wrote:
> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
> ...
>> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I had
>> back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>>
>> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I wonder
>> if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might just be good
>> for cooking...
>
> You drink Chardonnay warm? CHill it, serve it up. You could be surprised.
> It could also be totally sour. Is the color straw or more yellow?
>
> Paul
>
>

I don't drink Chardonnay at all (11 or 12 years ago, I might not
have realized that yet.) The color was more of a yellow, but not a
bright yellow. I drank it at "cellar temperature" to emphasize
whatever taste it might have left -- which wasn't much, but it
wasn't nasty either. A 13.5% beer would have aged a lot better ;-)

Bob

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> cybercat wrote:
>> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I had
>>> back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>>>
>>> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I
>>> wonder if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might just
>>> be good for cooking...
>>
>> It should be vinegar. Almost all white wines should be less than 3 years
>> old.
>
>
> Requires oxygen to turn to vinegar.
>
> I drank it; it had no "fruit" left at all, but at least it didn't taste
> like oak. It wasn't objectionable and I got a buzz, but it would have
> been a lot nicer to drink 10 years ago.
>

Hmm. Did it taste like wine at all?

On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 00:58:39 -0500, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>
>"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
>> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I had
>> back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>>
>> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I wonder
>> if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might just be good
>> for cooking...
>
>It should be vinegar. Almost all white wines should be less than 3 years
>old.


Arrrrhhhhhh...
This statement shows you do not know the *good* white wines. Higher
end white Burgundy wines are very good after 10 to 15 years. Savagnin
from the Jura can last for decades, and its nobler cousin Vin Jaune
for hundreds of years, literally. Good Sauternes is worth waiting for
- I drank some Chateau Yquem 1967 in 1997 which was to die for. And so
on and so forth.

Nathalie in Switzerland

zxcvbob wrote:
> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I had
> back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>
> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I
> wonder if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might just
> be good for cooking...

East Texas Boy, you gonna burn in a lake of far if'n you drink that
devil water.

Did that make you homesick Bob? I remember some hellfire and brimstone
preachers saying just that when I was a kid in East-By-Gawd-Texas.

George Shirley wrote:
> zxcvbob wrote:
>> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I
>> had back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>>
>> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I
>> wonder if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might
>> just be good for cooking...
>
> East Texas Boy, you gonna burn in a lake of far if'n you drink that
> devil water.
>
> Did that make you homesick Bob? I remember some hellfire and brimstone
> preachers saying just that when I was a kid in East-By-Gawd-Texas.


Thanks George, that brought back some memories.

My dad is a good German boy from Central Texas, so he didn't much cotton
to a bunch of cigarette smokers tellin' him he couldn't drink beer. He
also made homemade wine, and when they got on his case about that he
told 'em he was in pretty good company on that one (see John chapter 2) ;-)

Bob, from the Piney Woods

Andy wrote:
> zxcvbob > wrote:
>
>> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I
> had
>> back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>>
>> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I
>> wonder if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might just
>> be good for cooking...
>
>
> zxcvbob,
>
> That reminds of my sis-IL's bottle of treasured 1954 Chateau Lafit
> Rothchild that she got as part of a divorce settlement. It was a red, I
> forget which grapes.
>
> She stayed with us for a while in CA but left it behind when she went
> back to Philly.
>
> I declared to my ex I wasn't going to ship it to her and we should enjoy
> it. She would've kept it forever. So I popped the cork and poured two
> glasses and...
>
> ...it was vinegar!!!
>
> Sis-IL stored it standing up and the air got in through the cork and
> ruined it.
>
> It might've made an OK oil and vinegar dressing, only I was too quick to
> pour it down the drain.
>
> Was your bottle properly tilted downwards? If not, don't get your hopes
> up.
>
> Best,
>
> Andy


This was stored in the dark, and on its side to keep the cork wet.

Bob

zxcvbob wrote:
> George Shirley wrote:
>> zxcvbob wrote:
>>> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I
>>> had back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>>>
>>> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I
>>> wonder if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might
>>> just be good for cooking...
>>
>> East Texas Boy, you gonna burn in a lake of far if'n you drink that
>> devil water.
>>
>> Did that make you homesick Bob? I remember some hellfire and brimstone
>> preachers saying just that when I was a kid in East-By-Gawd-Texas.
>
>
> Thanks George, that brought back some memories.
>
> My dad is a good German boy from Central Texas, so he didn't much cotton
> to a bunch of cigarette smokers tellin' him he couldn't drink beer. He
> also made homemade wine, and when they got on his case about that he
> told 'em he was in pretty good company on that one (see John chapter 2) ;-)
>
> Bob, from the Piney Woods

I understand, my folks were whiskey drinking Baptists who smoked and
danced, I understand it quite well.

Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>
> Arrrrhhhhhh...
> This statement shows you do not know the *good* white wines. Higher
> end white Burgundy wines are very good after 10 to 15 years. Savagnin
> from the Jura can last for decades, and its nobler cousin Vin Jaune
> for hundreds of years, literally. Good Sauternes is worth waiting for
> - I drank some Chateau Yquem 1967 in 1997 which was to die for. And so
> on and so forth.


Most white wines, especially Chardonnay, are not made to be aged. The
cheaper Chardonnay wines are meant to be drunk young and there is no
benefit to ageing. Some of the mid range Chardonnay can be aged 3-5
years, and the most expensive can be aged 4-8 years. Anyone spending the
money on a superb Chardonnay worthy of ageing for a long time would
likely be planning on drinking it in it's prime and not finding it in
the back of a cupboard.

"Nathalie Chiva" <Nathaliedotchivaatgmail.remove.com> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 00:58:39 -0500, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
>>> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I had
>>> back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>>>
>>> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I
>>> wonder
>>> if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might just be good
>>> for cooking...
>>
>>It should be vinegar. Almost all white wines should be less than 3 years
>>old.
>
>
> Arrrrhhhhhh...
> This statement shows you do not know the *good* white wines. Higher
> end white Burgundy wines are very good after 10 to 15 years. Savagnin
> from the Jura can last for decades, and its nobler cousin Vin Jaune
> for hundreds of years, literally. Good Sauternes is worth waiting for
> - I drank some Chateau Yquem 1967 in 1997 which was to die for. And so
> on and so forth.
>

Did you see that I said "almost all?" Asshole.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>>
>> Arrrrhhhhhh...
>> This statement shows you do not know the *good* white wines. Higher
>> end white Burgundy wines are very good after 10 to 15 years. Savagnin
>> from the Jura can last for decades, and its nobler cousin Vin Jaune
>> for hundreds of years, literally. Good Sauternes is worth waiting for
>> - I drank some Chateau Yquem 1967 in 1997 which was to die for. And so
>> on and so forth.
>
>
> Most white wines, especially Chardonnay, are not made to be aged. The
> cheaper Chardonnay wines are meant to be drunk young and there is no
> benefit to ageing. Some of the mid range Chardonnay can be aged 3-5 years,
> and the most expensive can be aged 4-8 years. Anyone spending the money on
> a superb Chardonnay worthy of ageing for a long time would likely be
> planning on drinking it in it's prime and not finding it in the back of a
> cupboard.

Precisely. Which is why I said "almost all."

"cybercat" > wrote in message ...
|
| "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
| ...
| > Nathalie Chiva wrote:
| >>
| >> Arrrrhhhhhh...
| >> This statement shows you do not know the *good* white wines. Higher
| >> end white Burgundy wines are very good after 10 to 15 years. Savagnin
| >> from the Jura can last for decades, and its nobler cousin Vin Jaune
| >> for hundreds of years, literally. Good Sauternes is worth waiting for
| >> - I drank some Chateau Yquem 1967 in 1997 which was to die for. And so
| >> on and so forth.
| >
| >
| > Most white wines, especially Chardonnay, are not made to be aged. The
| > cheaper Chardonnay wines are meant to be drunk young and there is no
| > benefit to ageing. Some of the mid range Chardonnay can be aged 3-5 years,
| > and the most expensive can be aged 4-8 years. Anyone spending the money on
| > a superb Chardonnay worthy of ageing for a long time would likely be
| > planning on drinking it in it's prime and not finding it in the back of a
| > cupboard.
|
| Precisely. Which is why I said "almost all."

And then there is Stony Hill Vineyard, to me the best California Chardonnay
made. These are tasting notes from a dinner they held in 2000, tasting
Stony Hill wines going back to the 1956 Chard and forward. Have you ever
come across any of their wines?
http://www.stonyhillvineyard.com/pag...000_lunch.html

pavane

"pavane" > wrote
> And then there is Stony Hill Vineyard, to me the best California
> Chardonnay
> made. These are tasting notes from a dinner they held in 2000, tasting
> Stony Hill wines going back to the 1956 Chard and forward. Have you ever
> come across any of their wines?
> http://www.stonyhillvineyard.com/pag...000_lunch.html
>

I have! I used to drink their chardonnay when I smoked. I switched to red
wine when I quit smoking. Trying to get rid of paired stimuli. Did you
actually taste the one from 1956??

"pavane" > wrote
> Stony Hill wines going back to the 1956 Chard and forward. Have you ever
> come across any of their wines?
> http://www.stonyhillvineyard.com/pag...000_lunch.html
>

This is odd. Gewurtztraminer and chardonnay are two of the wines best drunk
young, from what I have read.

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I had
> back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>
> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I wonder
> if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might just be good
> for cooking...
>
>
In addition to the underlying quality of the wine this depends greatly on
how the wine was stored. At what temp.? What is the condition of the cork?
Most important, how much ullage is there between the bottom of the cork and
the wine? You might be very pleasantly surprised. Set it upright for a few
days. Decant into a carafe several hours before you imbibe.

Kent

"cybercat" > wrote in message ...
|
| "pavane" > wrote
| > And then there is Stony Hill Vineyard, to me the best California
| > Chardonnay
| > made. These are tasting notes from a dinner they held in 2000, tasting
| > Stony Hill wines going back to the 1956 Chard and forward. Have you ever
| > come across any of their wines?
| > http://www.stonyhillvineyard.com/pag...000_lunch.html
| >
|
| I have! I used to drink their chardonnay when I smoked. I switched to red
| wine when I quit smoking. Trying to get rid of paired stimuli. Did you
| actually taste the one from 1956??

I wish ... the oldest I have had was a 1982 a couple of years ago, and I
still have a couple of bottles of 1983. The winery has a really interesting
library of wines, but very hard to get. I don't think I would resume smoking
even for a taste of the '56, but it might be a close call...

pavane

"pavane" > wrote in message
...
>
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
> |
> | "pavane" > wrote
> | > And then there is Stony Hill Vineyard, to me the best California
> | > Chardonnay
> | > made. These are tasting notes from a dinner they held in 2000,
> tasting
> | > Stony Hill wines going back to the 1956 Chard and forward. Have you
> ever
> | > come across any of their wines?
> | > http://www.stonyhillvineyard.com/pag...000_lunch.html
> | >
> |
> | I have! I used to drink their chardonnay when I smoked. I switched to
> red
> | wine when I quit smoking. Trying to get rid of paired stimuli. Did
> you
> | actually taste the one from 1956??
>
> I wish ... the oldest I have had was a 1982 a couple of years ago, and I
> still have a couple of bottles of 1983. The winery has a really
> interesting
> library of wines, but very hard to get. I don't think I would resume
> smoking
> even for a taste of the '56, but it might be a close call...
>

So you're saying 20-30 year old chardonnay tastes good?

"cybercat" > wrote in message ...
|
| "pavane" > wrote
| > Stony Hill wines going back to the 1956 Chard and forward. Have you ever
| > come across any of their wines?
| > http://www.stonyhillvineyard.com/pag...000_lunch.html
| >
|
| This is odd. Gewurtztraminer and chardonnay are two of the wines best drunk
| young, from what I have read.

And yet the oldest wine that Michael Broadbent ever drank, if I recall
correctly, was a Riesling from the late 1700's ( I can't find my copy of
his book, and Riesling is not Gewurz, but a similar family of wines,
particularly in Alsace.) In short, Stony Hill Rocks.

pavane

"cybercat" > wrote in message ...
|
| "pavane" > wrote in message
| ...
| >
| > "cybercat" > wrote in message
| > ...
| > |
| > | "pavane" > wrote
| > | > And then there is Stony Hill Vineyard, to me the best California
| > | > Chardonnay
| > | > made. These are tasting notes from a dinner they held in 2000,
| > tasting
| > | > Stony Hill wines going back to the 1956 Chard and forward. Have you
| > ever
| > | > come across any of their wines?
| > | > http://www.stonyhillvineyard.com/pag...000_lunch.html
| > | >
| > |
| > | I have! I used to drink their chardonnay when I smoked. I switched to
| > red
| > | wine when I quit smoking. Trying to get rid of paired stimuli. Did
| > you
| > | actually taste the one from 1956??
| >
| > I wish ... the oldest I have had was a 1982 a couple of years ago, and I
| > still have a couple of bottles of 1983. The winery has a really
| > interesting
| > library of wines, but very hard to get. I don't think I would resume
| > smoking
| > even for a taste of the '56, but it might be a close call...
| >
|
| So you're saying 20-30 year old chardonnay tastes good?

Yes, if it is well made and well stored. I have even had 35 year old
Champagne that was simply gorgeous. Most of the bright fruit goes
away, leaving deep apricot-brandy-richness behind. Chardonnay
also, that morphing of the sharp brightness to a rich burnished
almost golden flavor to match the color change. If you can seek any
of these out, it is really worth the effort.

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I had
> back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>
> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I wonder
> if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might just be good
> for cooking...

I've had a fair number of barrel aged single vineyard chardonnays that are
over ten years old. As long as the cork is intact, and the ullage isn't any
to speak of, and it has been cellared at an appropriate temp they tend to be
very drinkable. I've had some quite a bit older than 12 years.

Note this, from "Flagship Wines" flagshipwines.com regarding the Rosemount
Chardonnay.

"Hand harvested from one of Australia's oldest chardonnay vineyards, the
Roxburgh vineyard in the Hunter Valley, New South Wales. This wine's unique
flavours reflect the 'terroir' and tiny yields of less than two tonnes per
acre. Fermented in new French oak with full malolactic fermentation and on
lees maturation, this complex wine will cellar for 10 years.
1998 Vintage
Warm, Dry conditions in November and December enabled favourable healthy
vine growth and berry development. The upper Hunter experienced more
favourable ripening conditions than the coastal affected vineyards down the
Valley, where rainfall was substantially heavier in the critical months
before harvest.
The favourable weather conditions allowed fruit to be hand harvested in
early February, showing great elegance and tremendous definition of varietal
flavour."

Kent

"The Other Guy" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:03:33 -0500, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Did you see that I said "almost all?" Asshole.
>
> STILL doesn't change the fact that LOTS of extremely poor info is offered
> in this group.
>
> AND that instead of just DISCUSSING it, some people just HAVE to hurl
> insults.
>
>

Her tone was assholish. You are welcome to your opinion as well. Asshole.

Kent wrote:
> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
> ...
>> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I had
>> back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>>
>> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I wonder
>> if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might just be good
>> for cooking...
>>
>>
> In addition to the underlying quality of the wine this depends greatly on
> how the wine was stored. At what temp.? What is the condition of the cork?
> Most important, how much ullage is there between the bottom of the cork and
> the wine? You might be very pleasantly surprised. Set it upright for a few
> days. Decant into a carafe several hours before you imbibe.
>
> Kent
>
>
>


The ullage -- I had to look that up -- was fine. It was still
fairly high in the neck of the bottle (the bottle had an unusually
long neck)

I bet it was a $10 bottle of wine 11 or 12 years ago when I bought
it, and I got it on sale for about $7. It still tasted better than
a nasty bottle of French white table wine that I bought last year
(no varietal and no year on the gorgeous blue bottle)

I should just stick with red wines and the occasional bottle of
extra dry champagne.

Bob

"Kent" > wrote in message ...
| .........
| In addition to the underlying quality of the wine this depends greatly on
| how the wine was stored. At what temp.? What is the condition of the cork?
| Most important, how much ullage is there between the bottom of the cork and
| the wine? You might be very pleasantly surprised. Set it upright for a few
| days. Decant into a carafe several hours before you imbibe.
..........
A quibble here, but I would suggest that you do NOT decant it first.
If the wine has oxidized, due to bad cork or whatever, immediate
decanting will throw much more oxygen into it and probably push it
over the edge; it may not last more than a quarter hour or so. When
you uncork it, taste it immediately. If it is "edgy" just serve it or
put the cork back in until you are ready; if it tastes old but fine, you
might try decanting but taste it as is against the decanted stock.
The only places that decanting is indicated is 1) a bottle that has thrown
obvious sediment and you want to avoid it, or 2) in an extremely fine
older red that you know to be in good condition and powerful. Most
professionals will taste any wine before decanting. Just common sense.

pavane

"pavane" > wrote in message
...
|
| "Kent" > wrote in message ...
|| .........
|| In addition to the underlying quality of the wine this depends greatly on
|| how the wine was stored. At what temp.? What is the condition of the cork?
|| Most important, how much ullage is there between the bottom of the cork and
|| the wine? You might be very pleasantly surprised. Set it upright for a few
|| days. Decant into a carafe several hours before you imbibe.
| .........
| A quibble here, but I would suggest that you do NOT decant it first.
| If the wine has oxidized, due to bad cork or whatever, immediate
| decanting will throw much more oxygen into it and probably push it
| over the edge; it may not last more than a quarter hour or so. When
| you uncork it, taste it immediately. If it is "edgy" just serve it or
| put the cork back in until you are ready; if it tastes old but fine, you
| might try decanting but taste it as is against the decanted stock.
| The only places that decanting is indicated is 1) a bottle that has thrown
| obvious sediment and you want to avoid it, or 2) in an extremely fine
| older red that you know to be in good condition and powerful. Most
| professionals will taste any wine before decanting. Just common sense.

You might also want to decant, vigorously, a young and good red to get
oxygen into it and sort of "awaken" it. Sorry, I overlooked that common
use of the decanter.

pavane

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> Kent wrote:
>> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I had
>>> back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>>>
>>> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I
>>> wonder if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might just
>>> be good for cooking...
>>>
>>>
>> In addition to the underlying quality of the wine this depends greatly on
>> how the wine was stored. At what temp.? What is the condition of the
>> cork? Most important, how much ullage is there between the bottom of the
>> cork and the wine? You might be very pleasantly surprised. Set it upright
>> for a few days. Decant into a carafe several hours before you imbibe.
>>
>> Kent
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> The ullage -- I had to look that up -- was fine. It was still fairly high
> in the neck of the bottle (the bottle had an unusually long neck)
>
> I bet it was a $10 bottle of wine 11 or 12 years ago when I bought it, and
> I got it on sale for about $7. It still tasted better than a nasty bottle
> of French white table wine that I bought last year (no varietal and no
> year on the gorgeous blue bottle)
>
> I should just stick with red wines and the occasional bottle of extra dry
> champagne.
>
Nah, just drink your chardonnay young. And make it Australian. I hate French
wines.

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> Kent wrote:
>> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I had
>>> back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>>>
>>> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I
>>> wonder if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might just
>>> be good for cooking...
>>>
>>>
>> In addition to the underlying quality of the wine this depends greatly on
>> how the wine was stored. At what temp.? What is the condition of the
>> cork? Most important, how much ullage is there between the bottom of the
>> cork and the wine? You might be very pleasantly surprised. Set it upright
>> for a few days. Decant into a carafe several hours before you imbibe.
>>
>> Kent
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> The ullage -- I had to look that up -- was fine. It was still fairly high
> in the neck of the bottle (the bottle had an unusually long neck)
>
> I bet it was a $10 bottle of wine 11 or 12 years ago when I bought it, and
> I got it on sale for about $7. It still tasted better than a nasty bottle
> of French white table wine that I bought last year (no varietal and no
> year on the gorgeous blue bottle)

There are many awful French wines out there. I've had some French chards
that were so heavily laced with oak and other tannins that they made my
throat constrict. Literally. The last bottle of Louis Jadot I tried tasted
like yard clippings with extra twigs and I swear a hint of Labrador
Retriever.

> I should just stick with red wines and the occasional bottle of extra dry
> champagne.

You've created quite a raucous. Look, Rosemount is an average, low priced,
decent table wine. I drink Rosemount on a regular basis and their offerings
are pleasant, though simple as are most offerings in a grocery store fridge.
To compare it to the world's best is just silly, as some have done.

As for champagne, you know Cook's Brut at about 6 bucks is really not at all
bad. I drink it often with caviar and cream cheese on toasted baguettes.

Paul

zxcvbob wrote:
> Kent wrote:
>> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I
>>> had back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>>>
>>> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I
>>> wonder if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might
>>> just be good for cooking...
>>>
>>>
>> In addition to the underlying quality of the wine this depends greatly
>> on how the wine was stored. At what temp.? What is the condition of
>> the cork? Most important, how much ullage is there between the bottom
>> of the cork and the wine? You might be very pleasantly surprised. Set
>> it upright for a few days. Decant into a carafe several hours before
>> you imbibe.
>>
>> Kent
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> The ullage -- I had to look that up -- was fine. It was still fairly
> high in the neck of the bottle (the bottle had an unusually long neck)
>
> I bet it was a $10 bottle of wine 11 or 12 years ago when I bought it,
> and I got it on sale for about $7. It still tasted better than a nasty
> bottle of French white table wine that I bought last year (no varietal
> and no year on the gorgeous blue bottle)
>
> I should just stick with red wines and the occasional bottle of extra
> dry champagne.
>
> Bob

My favorite is Chateau Diet Dr. Pepper, heavily chilled and served over
ice. Preferably bottled within the last week.

On Feb 6, 8:10*pm, zxcvbob > wrote:
> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I had
> back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>
> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. *(I
> wonder if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) *Might just
> be good for cooking...

You should watch the movie "Bottle Shock" with Bill Pullman. You can
learn a little about the chardonnay. Great wine movie!!

"pavane" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
> | .........
> | In addition to the underlying quality of the wine this depends greatly
> on
> | how the wine was stored. At what temp.? What is the condition of the
> cork?
> | Most important, how much ullage is there between the bottom of the cork
> and
> | the wine? You might be very pleasantly surprised. Set it upright for a
> few
> | days. Decant into a carafe several hours before you imbibe.
> .........
> A quibble here, but I would suggest that you do NOT decant it first.
> If the wine has oxidized, due to bad cork or whatever, immediate
> decanting will throw much more oxygen into it and probably push it
> over the edge; it may not last more than a quarter hour or so. When
> you uncork it, taste it immediately. If it is "edgy" just serve it or
> put the cork back in until you are ready; if it tastes old but fine, you
> might try decanting but taste it as is against the decanted stock.
> The only places that decanting is indicated is 1) a bottle that has thrown
> obvious sediment and you want to avoid it, or 2) in an extremely fine
> older red that you know to be in good condition and powerful. Most
> professionals will taste any wine before decanting. Just common sense.
>
> pavane
>

>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
> | .........
> | In addition to the underlying quality of the wine this depends greatly
> on
> | how the wine was stored. At what temp.? What is the condition of the
> cork?
> | Most important, how much ullage is there between the bottom of the cork
> and
> | the wine? You might be very pleasantly surprised. Set it upright for a
> few
> | days. Decant into a carafe several hours before you imbibe.
> .........
> A quibble here, but I would suggest that you do NOT decant it first.
> If the wine has oxidized, due to bad cork or whatever, immediate
> decanting will throw much more oxygen into it and probably push it
> over the edge; it may not last more than a quarter hour or so. When
> you uncork it, taste it immediately. If it is "edgy" just serve it or
> put the cork back in until you are ready; if it tastes old but fine, you
> might try decanting but taste it as is against the decanted stock.
> The only places that decanting is indicated is 1) a bottle that has thrown
> obvious sediment and you want to avoid it, or 2) in an extremely fine
> older red that you know to be in good condition and powerful. Most
> professionals will taste any wine before decanting. Just common sense.
>
> pavane
>
>
When we've had old white Burgundies and California white wines, including
Stony Hill, I've decanted and it always has improved the taste. Very old
sauternes benefit greatly from decanting, and from sitting in the carafe
overnight in the frig. I have a fair amount of 1963 Chateau suduiraut, [yes
1963]. Some tastes a bit maderized, like sherry; most are outstanding.

Our 1963 Ports are never decanted; they don't need to be, even for their
sediment, which stays on the bottom of the bottle. They're outstanding 47
years later. Our 1970 Bordeaux wines are always decanted; the second half of
the bottle is always tastier on the second day, after a night in the frig. I
always cover the decanter with cling wrap to limit the oxidation.

Cheers,



Kent,
---
,drinking two buck Chuck frequently.

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I had
> back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>
> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I wonder
> if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might just be good
> for cooking...
>
>
The times I've had old white Burgundies and some California white wines,
including Stony Hill, I've decanted and it improved the taste. Very old
sauternes benefit greatly from decanting, and from sitting in the carafe
overnight in the frig. I have a fair amount of 1963 Chateau suduiraut, [yes
1963]. Some tastes a bit maderized, like sherry; most are outstanding.

Our 1963 Ports are never decanted; they don't need to be, even for their
sediment, which stays on the bottom of the bottle. They're outstanding 47
years later. Our 1970 Bordeaux wines are always decanted; the second half of
the bottle is always tastier on the second day, after a night in the frig. I
always cover the decanter with cling wrap to limit the oxidation.

Cheers,

Kent,
---
,drinking two buck Chuck frequently.

"The Other Guy" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:00:42 -0500, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Her tone was assholish. You are welcome to your opinion as well. Asshole.
>
> I see YOU have no couth, AND no intelligence as well.
>
>
> plonk.
>
>
Ow. I see your caps key works too. ASSSSSSSSHOLE.

On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:48:32 -0600, George Shirley wrote:

> zxcvbob wrote:
>>
>> The ullage -- I had to look that up -- was fine. It was still fairly
>> high in the neck of the bottle (the bottle had an unusually long neck)
>>
>> I bet it was a $10 bottle of wine 11 or 12 years ago when I bought it,
>> and I got it on sale for about $7. It still tasted better than a nasty
>> bottle of French white table wine that I bought last year (no varietal
>> and no year on the gorgeous blue bottle)
>>
>> I should just stick with red wines and the occasional bottle of extra
>> dry champagne.
>>
>> Bob
>
> My favorite is Chateau Diet Dr. Pepper, heavily chilled and served over
> ice. Preferably bottled within the last week.

but you can't get it at the cheesecake factory!!! what kind of fine dining
establishment are they running, anyway?!?!?

your pal,
just visiting

blake murphy wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:48:32 -0600, George Shirley wrote:
>
>> zxcvbob wrote:
>>> The ullage -- I had to look that up -- was fine. It was still fairly
>>> high in the neck of the bottle (the bottle had an unusually long neck)
>>>
>>> I bet it was a $10 bottle of wine 11 or 12 years ago when I bought it,
>>> and I got it on sale for about $7. It still tasted better than a nasty
>>> bottle of French white table wine that I bought last year (no varietal
>>> and no year on the gorgeous blue bottle)
>>>
>>> I should just stick with red wines and the occasional bottle of extra
>>> dry champagne.
>>>
>>> Bob
>> My favorite is Chateau Diet Dr. Pepper, heavily chilled and served over
>> ice. Preferably bottled within the last week.
>
> but you can't get it at the cheesecake factory!!! what kind of fine dining
> establishment are they running, anyway?!?!?
>
> your pal,
> just visiting


He's just messin' with me because he knows I get homesick for East
Texas every year about February. (I should be out planting my garden,
and ground here is still frozen down about 5 or 6 feet deep.)

Best regards, :-)
Bob

blake murphy wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:48:32 -0600, George Shirley wrote:
>
>> zxcvbob wrote:
>>> The ullage -- I had to look that up -- was fine. It was still fairly
>>> high in the neck of the bottle (the bottle had an unusually long neck)
>>>
>>> I bet it was a $10 bottle of wine 11 or 12 years ago when I bought it,
>>> and I got it on sale for about $7. It still tasted better than a nasty
>>> bottle of French white table wine that I bought last year (no varietal
>>> and no year on the gorgeous blue bottle)
>>>
>>> I should just stick with red wines and the occasional bottle of extra
>>> dry champagne.
>>>
>>> Bob
>> My favorite is Chateau Diet Dr. Pepper, heavily chilled and served over
>> ice. Preferably bottled within the last week.
>
> but you can't get it at the cheesecake factory!!! what kind of fine dining
> establishment are they running, anyway?!?!?


I restrained myself, but I knew someone had to say it :-)

Kent wrote:
> Our 1963 Ports are never decanted; they don't need to be, even for their
> sediment, which stays on the bottom of the bottle. They're outstanding 47
> years later. Our 1970 Bordeaux wines are always decanted; the second half of
> the bottle is always tastier on the second day, after a night in the frig. I
> always cover the decanter with cling wrap to limit the oxidation.

That is one bog difference between Chardonnay and Port. Chardonnay is
usually made to be drunk within a few years, but just about any Port
will improve with age.

zxcvbob wrote:
> blake murphy wrote:
>> On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:48:32 -0600, George Shirley wrote:
>>
>>> zxcvbob wrote:
>>>> The ullage -- I had to look that up -- was fine. It was still
>>>> fairly high in the neck of the bottle (the bottle had an unusually
>>>> long neck)
>>>>
>>>> I bet it was a $10 bottle of wine 11 or 12 years ago when I bought
>>>> it, and I got it on sale for about $7. It still tasted better than
>>>> a nasty bottle of French white table wine that I bought last year
>>>> (no varietal and no year on the gorgeous blue bottle)
>>>>
>>>> I should just stick with red wines and the occasional bottle of
>>>> extra dry champagne.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>> My favorite is Chateau Diet Dr. Pepper, heavily chilled and served
>>> over ice. Preferably bottled within the last week.
>>
>> but you can't get it at the cheesecake factory!!! what kind of fine
>> dining
>> establishment are they running, anyway?!?!?
>>
>> your pal,
>> just visiting
>
>
> He's just messin' with me because he knows I get homesick for East Texas
> every year about February. (I should be out planting my garden, and
> ground here is still frozen down about 5 or 6 feet deep.)
>
> Best regards, :-)
> Bob

The ground in East Texas isn't frozen this year either Bob. It is the
coldest winter on record for many years though. Even here in SW
Loosyanna we've had multiple heavy frosts, a few freezing nights, and we
don't have to worry about the 450 hours at or below 45F for our fruit
trees this year.

At least when your ground thaws the grubs and other critters don't go
looking for the roots of your veggies.

On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:03:33 -0500, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>
>"Nathalie Chiva" <Nathaliedotchivaatgmail.remove.com> wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 00:58:39 -0500, "cybercat" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
>>>> ...in the back of the closet. Rosemount Estate 1998. I thought all I had
>>>> back there was a few assorted bottles of red.
>>>>
>>>> It should be drinkable, but will have no character left at all. (I
>>>> wonder
>>>> if it would be better chilled or not at this point.) Might just be good
>>>> for cooking...
>>>
>>>It should be vinegar. Almost all white wines should be less than 3 years
>>>old.
>>
>>
>> Arrrrhhhhhh...
>> This statement shows you do not know the *good* white wines. Higher
>> end white Burgundy wines are very good after 10 to 15 years. Savagnin
>> from the Jura can last for decades, and its nobler cousin Vin Jaune
>> for hundreds of years, literally. Good Sauternes is worth waiting for
>> - I drank some Chateau Yquem 1967 in 1997 which was to die for. And so
>> on and so forth.
>>
>
>Did you see that I said "almost all?" Asshole.
>

Mmmmm. Now *that* is constructive criticism...

Nathalie in Switzerland