Yes, seen on the BBC breakfast news this morning, from next week, people
in the UK will be able to buy tubes of Umami paste like you can with
tomato paste and garlic/ginger paste.
--
Carl Robson
Get cashback on your purchases
Topcashback http://www.TopCashBack.co.uk/skraggy_uk/ref/index.htm
Greasypalm http://www.greasypalm.co.uk/r/?l=1006553

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:28:31 -0000, Elder wrote:

> Umami paste

http://foodbizdaily.com/articles/963...ami-paste.aspx

Yay! <yawn>.

-sw

Elder wrote on Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:28:31 -0000:

> Yes, seen on the BBC breakfast news this morning, from next
> week, people in the UK will be able to buy tubes of Umami
> paste like you can with tomato paste and garlic/ginger paste.
> --
Is this for real? Umami is the fifth sense of taste and is usually
increased with MSG. However, I have heard that there is paste made from
special mushrooms that is supposed to impart umami. Probably the
mushrooms are high on glutamate.
--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Feb 10, 12:28*am, Elder > wrote:
> Yes, seen on the BBC breakfast news this morning, from next week, people
> in the UK will be able to buy tubes of Umami paste like you can with
> tomato paste and garlic/ginger paste.
> --
> Carl Robson
> Get cashback on your purchases
> Topcashbackhttp://www.TopCashBack.co.uk/skraggy_uk/ref/index.htm
> Greasypalmhttp://www.greasypalm.co.uk/r/?l=1006553

How can you have a tube of umami? Umami is another dimension of
taste, not a thing.

In article <4d96f9e2-6bb6-473d-a9a1-
>, says...
>
> On Feb 10, 12:28*am, Elder > wrote:
> > Yes, seen on the BBC breakfast news this morning, from next week, people
> > in the UK will be able to buy tubes of Umami paste like you can with
> > tomato paste and garlic/ginger paste.
> > --
> > Carl Robson
> > Get cashback on your purchases
> > Topcashbackhttp://www.TopCashBack.co.uk/skraggy_uk/ref/index.htm
> > Greasypalmhttp://www.greasypalm.co.uk/r/?l=1006553
>
> How can you have a tube of umami? Umami is another dimension of
> taste, not a thing.

I was wondering the same thing...

Scotty

On Feb 10, 10:36*am, I am Tosk >
wrote:
> In article <4d96f9e2-6bb6-473d-a9a1-
> >, says...
>
>
>
> > On Feb 10, 12:28*am, Elder > wrote:
> > > Yes, seen on the BBC breakfast news this morning, from next week, people
> > > in the UK will be able to buy tubes of Umami paste like you can with
> > > tomato paste and garlic/ginger paste.
> > > --
> > > Carl Robson
> > > Get cashback on your purchases
> > > Topcashbackhttp://www.TopCashBack.co.uk/skraggy_uk/ref/index.htm
> > > Greasypalmhttp://www.greasypalm.co.uk/r/?l=1006553
>
> > How can you have a tube of umami? * Umami is another dimension of
> > taste, not a thing.
>
> I was wondering the same thing...
>
> Scotty

It's probably in the foodie dictionary next to "shrimp scampi," or
"with au jus."

N.

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:05:12 -0800 (PST), Nancy2 wrote:

> On Feb 10, 10:36*am, I am Tosk >
> wrote:
>> In article <4d96f9e2-6bb6-473d-a9a1-
>> >, says...
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 10, 12:28*am, Elder > wrote:
>>> > Yes, seen on the BBC breakfast news this morning, from next week, people
>>> > in the UK will be able to buy tubes of Umami paste like you can with
>>> > tomato paste and garlic/ginger paste.
>>> > --
>>> > Carl Robson
>>> > Get cashback on your purchases
>>> > Topcashbackhttp://www.TopCashBack.co.uk/skraggy_uk/ref/index.htm
>>> > Greasypalmhttp://www.greasypalm.co.uk/r/?l=1006553
>>
>>> How can you have a tube of umami? * Umami is another dimension of
>>> taste, not a thing.
>>
>> I was wondering the same thing...
>>
>> Scotty
>
> It's probably in the foodie dictionary next to "shrimp scampi," or
> "with au jus."

And "Soup du jour of the day"

-sw

James Silverton wrote:
>
> Is this for real? Umami is the fifth sense of taste and is usually
> increased with MSG. However, I have heard that there is paste made from
> special mushrooms that is supposed to impart umami. Probably the
> mushrooms are high on glutamate.

If I recall correctly, the flavor enhancer in mushrooms
is 5'-guanosine monophosphate, a.k.a. disodium guanylate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disodium_guanylate

James Silverton wrote:
> Elder wrote on Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:28:31 -0000:
>
>> Yes, seen on the BBC breakfast news this morning, from next
>> week, people in the UK will be able to buy tubes of Umami
>> paste like you can with tomato paste and garlic/ginger paste.
>> --
>
> Is this for real? Umami is the fifth sense of taste and is usually
> increased with MSG. However, I have heard that there is paste made from
> special mushrooms that is supposed to impart umami. Probably the
> mushrooms are high on glutamate.

I thought Unami was the Japanese combo of equal parts soy sauce, sesame
oil and sake?

From the recommended web site describing the ingredients of the "Unami"
sauce:

"Taste No. 5 combines umami-rich Italian ingredients such as tomato,
Parmesan cheese and porcini mushrooms into a single paste that can be
rubbed, squeezed or spread."

I have spiced up the soy sauce, sake & sesame oil with various other
herbs and spices such as ginger, garlic, chinese 5 spices, & etc. but
the basic sauce is very good and very versatile.

--

Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.

Domine, dirige nos.

Let the games begin!
http://fredeeky.typepad.com/fredeeky.../sf_anthem.mp3
Owner|Moderator
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JoeTarot
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SomeThingsTarot

In article >, says...
>
> James Silverton wrote:
> >
> > Is this for real? Umami is the fifth sense of taste and is usually
> > increased with MSG. However, I have heard that there is paste made from
> > special mushrooms that is supposed to impart umami. Probably the
> > mushrooms are high on glutamate.
>
> If I recall correctly, the flavor enhancer in mushrooms
> is 5'-guanosine monophosphate, a.k.a. disodium guanylate.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disodium_guanylate

I like to tease my kids and tell them I added Umami to a dish.. Then
they know it's time to dig out the mushrooms

I know, I know... I am stupid and the more enlightened here will
probably have to KF me for that comment

Scotty

ImStillMags wrote:
>
> How can you have a tube of umami? Umami is another dimension of
> taste, not a thing.

Salt is both a taste and an item. Sweet is also both a taste and an
item. Umami is detection of a set of amino acids mostly glutamate. The
paste should be made of a mixture of animo acids primarily glutamic acid.

More likely it's a reduced soy and mushroom mush.

Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> ImStillMags wrote:
> >
> > How can you have a tube of umami? Umami is another dimension of
> > taste, not a thing.
>
> Salt is both a taste and an item. Sweet is also both a taste and an
> item. Umami is detection of a set of amino acids mostly glutamate. The
> paste should be made of a mixture of animo acids primarily glutamic acid.
>
> More likely it's a reduced soy and mushroom mush.

I'd guess hydrolyzed vegetable protein. That would have
a lot of umami flavor. In addition to free glutamate,
it would have other amino acids like proline which
also contribute umami flavor.

I don't see any advantage over pure MSG.

On 2010-02-10, James Silverton wrote:

> Elder wrote on Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:28:31 -0000:
>
>> Yes, seen on the BBC breakfast news this morning, from next
>> week, people in the UK will be able to buy tubes of Umami
>> paste like you can with tomato paste and garlic/ginger paste.
>> --
> Is this for real? Umami is the fifth sense of taste and is usually
> increased with MSG. However, I have heard that there is paste made from
> special mushrooms that is supposed to impart umami. Probably the
> mushrooms are high on glutamate.

You can sometimes buy MSG itself retail. (Well, I've seen it in
Chinese groceries.)


--
History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of
urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.
(Thurgood Marshall)

Adam wrote on Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:58:06 +0000:

>> Elder wrote on Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:28:31 -0000:
>>
>>> Yes, seen on the BBC breakfast news this morning, from next
>>> week, people in the UK will be able to buy tubes of Umami
>>> paste like you can with tomato paste and garlic/ginger
>>> paste. --
>> Is this for real? Umami is the fifth sense of taste and is
>> usually increased with MSG. However, I have heard that there
>> is paste made from special mushrooms that is supposed to
>> impart umami. Probably the mushrooms are high on glutamate.

> You can sometimes buy MSG itself retail. (Well, I've seen it
> in Chinese groceries.)

I can and do buy MSG, usually as Japanese Aji-No-Motu, in my Chinese
supermarket. I believe it is made in factories by fermentation of fungi
(possibly) and the process was invented at the beginning of the last
century.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On 2/10/2010 10:12 AM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> ImStillMags wrote:
>>
>> How can you have a tube of umami? Umami is another dimension of
>> taste, not a thing.
>
> Salt is both a taste and an item. Sweet is also both a taste and an
> item. Umami is detection of a set of amino acids mostly glutamate. The
> paste should be made of a mixture of animo acids primarily glutamic acid.
>
> More likely it's a reduced soy and mushroom mush.

Yummy! - I think I'll stick with Ajinomoto. :-)

"Elder" > wrote in message
t...
> Yes, seen on the BBC breakfast news this morning, from next week, people
> in the UK will be able to buy tubes of Umami paste like you can with
> tomato paste and garlic/ginger paste.
> --
> Carl Robson
> Get cashback on your purchases
> Topcashback http://www.TopCashBack.co.uk/skraggy_uk/ref/index.htm
> Greasypalm http://www.greasypalm.co.uk/r/?l=1006553

A tablespoon of soy sauce will do the same think.

Dimitri

In article >,
Adam Funk > wrote:

> You can sometimes buy MSG itself retail. (Well, I've seen it in
> Chinese groceries.)

MSG, as everyone here probably already knows, is the primary ingredient
in many spice mixes and flavor enhancing products. Accent is probably
the most famous of these.

The only one that we buy is Sazon Goya, because we have a really good
recipe for Cuban-style black beans and rice that calls for it.

--
Julian Vrieslander

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:46:04 -0800, Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq. wrote:

> James Silverton wrote:
>> Elder wrote on Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:28:31 -0000:
>>
>>> Yes, seen on the BBC breakfast news this morning, from next
>>> week, people in the UK will be able to buy tubes of Umami
>>> paste like you can with tomato paste and garlic/ginger paste.
>>> --
>>
>> Is this for real? Umami is the fifth sense of taste and is usually
>> increased with MSG. However, I have heard that there is paste made from
>> special mushrooms that is supposed to impart umami. Probably the
>> mushrooms are high on glutamate.
>
> I thought Unami was the Japanese combo of equal parts soy sauce, sesame
> oil and sake?
>
> From the recommended web site describing the ingredients of the "Unami"
> sauce:
>
> "Taste No. 5 combines umami-rich Italian ingredients such as tomato,
> Parmesan cheese and porcini mushrooms into a single paste that can be
> rubbed, squeezed or spread."
>
> I have spiced up the soy sauce, sake & sesame oil with various other
> herbs and spices such as ginger, garlic, chinese 5 spices, & etc. but
> the basic sauce is very good and very versatile.

in the case of your mixture, the soy sauce would contain the umami (and
other flavors). the additional ingredients would add to that.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:48:38 -0800, Ranee at Arabian Knits wrote:

> In article >,
> Doug Freyburger > wrote:
>
>> Sweet is also both a taste and an
>> item.
>
> Not quite. Table salt is NaCl. Sweet has quite a range from
> strawberries to ice cream to table sugar and more. You couldn't put
> together a tube of sweet any more than you could put together a tube of
> sour.
>
> Regards,
> Ranee @ Arabian Knits

some would say citric acid (a.k.a. sour salt) would be a stand-in for your
hypothetical sour paste.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:57:47 -1000, dsi1 wrote:

> On 2/10/2010 10:12 AM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
>> ImStillMags wrote:
>>>
>>> How can you have a tube of umami? Umami is another dimension of
>>> taste, not a thing.
>>
>> Salt is both a taste and an item. Sweet is also both a taste and an
>> item. Umami is detection of a set of amino acids mostly glutamate. The
>> paste should be made of a mixture of animo acids primarily glutamic acid.
>>
>> More likely it's a reduced soy and mushroom mush.
>
> Yummy! - I think I'll stick with Ajinomoto. :-)

you can be that would be cheaper than a tube of the miracle paste.

your pal,
blake

On 2/11/2010 9:38 AM, blake murphy wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:57:47 -1000, dsi1 wrote:
>
>> On 2/10/2010 10:12 AM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
>>> ImStillMags wrote:
>>>>
>>>> How can you have a tube of umami? Umami is another dimension of
>>>> taste, not a thing.
>>>
>>> Salt is both a taste and an item. Sweet is also both a taste and an
>>> item. Umami is detection of a set of amino acids mostly glutamate. The
>>> paste should be made of a mixture of animo acids primarily glutamic acid.
>>>
>>> More likely it's a reduced soy and mushroom mush.
>>
>> Yummy! - I think I'll stick with Ajinomoto. :-)
>
> you can be that would be cheaper than a tube of the miracle paste.

I get the 2 lb bag and I'm not afraid to use it. :-) I have it in the
little corner compartment next to the burners and will just reach down a
bit and grab a pinch. If I need more I'll use 3 fingers.

I just made some fried rice this morning. My wife said there was
something in it that she couldn't put her finger on. My guess it was the
MSG but next time I'll just say it was "miracle paste."

>
> your pal,
> blake

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:48:38 -0800, Ranee at Arabian Knits wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Doug Freyburger > wrote:
> >
> >> Sweet is also both a taste and an
> >> item.
> >
> > Not quite. Table salt is NaCl. Sweet has quite a range from
> > strawberries to ice cream to table sugar and more. You couldn't put
> > together a tube of sweet any more than you could put together a tube of
> > sour.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ranee @ Arabian Knits
>
> some would say citric acid (a.k.a. sour salt) would be a stand-in for your
> hypothetical sour paste.

Pretty much any acid is sour. Vinegar is pretty common. Some people
keep a bottle of vinegar on the table to add some "sour" to taste, just
like many people keep a bowl of sugar on the table to add to coffee,
tea, cereal or whatever. Many people keep a bottle of ketchup on the
table, too. That has a lot of sugar and some vinegar, so it is a sweet
and sour condiment. I'm confused about this Umami paste. A scientist
in Japan already isolated a primary Umami flavor, know as monosodium
glutamate, or MSG. This process of extraction was patented in 1909:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate

It was introduced into the US under the brand name of Accent in 1947.

Just as there are more than one source for acid and sugar, there is more
than one source for glutamic acid:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umami

"Glutamate has a long history in cooking.[5]It is naturally found in
East and Southeast Asian foods, such as soy sauce and fish sauce, and in
Italian foods like parmesan cheese, anchovies and ripe tomatoes. It is
also prevalent in seafood, such as lobster, crabs, and shrimp."

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:48:38 -0800, Ranee at Arabian Knits
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Doug Freyburger > wrote:
>
>> Sweet is also both a taste and an
>> item.
>
> Not quite. Table salt is NaCl. Sweet has quite a range from
>strawberries to ice cream to table sugar and more. You couldn't put
>together a tube of sweet any more than you could put together a tube of
>sour.

Some time ago a flavor chemist spoke at one of our monthly chemistry
meetings. According to her, sweet/sour/salt/bitter are tastes---what
the tastebuds respond to---while everything else is a flavor. The
nose is the organ that distinguishes flavors.

Close your eyes, pinch your nose shut with the fingers, have someone
pop a jellybean in your mouth. Try to determine the flavor. It's
awfully hard (dunno if I'd say 'impossible' but we all tried it and no
one in the room could tell the flavor of their jellybean).

I don't know where she stood on umami...

Best -- Terry

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:18:08 -0800, Dan Abel wrote:

> In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:48:38 -0800, Ranee at Arabian Knits wrote:
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> Doug Freyburger > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sweet is also both a taste and an
>>>> item.
>>>
>>> Not quite. Table salt is NaCl. Sweet has quite a range from
>>> strawberries to ice cream to table sugar and more. You couldn't put
>>> together a tube of sweet any more than you could put together a tube of
>>> sour.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Ranee @ Arabian Knits
>>
>> some would say citric acid (a.k.a. sour salt) would be a stand-in for your
>> hypothetical sour paste.
>
> Pretty much any acid is sour. Vinegar is pretty common. Some people
> keep a bottle of vinegar on the table to add some "sour" to taste, just
> like many people keep a bowl of sugar on the table to add to coffee,
> tea, cereal or whatever. Many people keep a bottle of ketchup on the
> table, too. That has a lot of sugar and some vinegar, so it is a sweet
> and sour condiment. I'm confused about this Umami paste. A scientist
> in Japan already isolated a primary Umami flavor, know as monosodium
> glutamate, or MSG. This process of extraction was patented in 1909:

i have no idea of the cost of the umami paste, but i'd guess anchovy paste
is cheaper and give much the same effect. or the powdered m.s.g.

your pal,
blake

Terry wrote on Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:28:14 -0600:

>> In article >,
>> Doug Freyburger > wrote:
>>
>>> Sweet is also both a taste and an
>>> item.
>>
>> Not quite. Table salt is NaCl. Sweet has quite a range
>> from strawberries to ice cream to table sugar and more. You
>> couldn't put together a tube of sweet any more than you could
>> put together a tube of sour.

> Some time ago a flavor chemist spoke at one of our monthly
> chemistry meetings. According to her, sweet/sour/salt/bitter
> are tastes---what the tastebuds respond to---while everything
> else is a flavor. The nose is the organ that distinguishes
> flavors.

> Close your eyes, pinch your nose shut with the fingers, have
> someone pop a jellybean in your mouth. Try to determine the
> flavor. It's awfully hard (dunno if I'd say 'impossible' but
> we all tried it and no one in the room could tell the flavor
> of their jellybean).

> I don't know where she stood on umami...

If it was some time ago, your chemist might not have accepted, as most
do these days, that umami is a *sense*. There is evidence accumulating
for a sixth *taste*, that of fat.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> > Pretty much any acid is sour. Vinegar is pretty common. Some people
> > keep a bottle of vinegar on the table to add some "sour" to taste, just
> > like many people keep a bowl of sugar on the table to add to coffee,
> > tea, cereal or whatever. Many people keep a bottle of ketchup on the
> > table, too. That has a lot of sugar and some vinegar, so it is a sweet
> > and sour condiment. I'm confused about this Umami paste. A scientist
> > in Japan already isolated a primary Umami flavor, know as monosodium
> > glutamate, or MSG. This process of extraction was patented in 1909:
>
> i have no idea of the cost of the umami paste, but i'd guess anchovy paste
> is cheaper and give much the same effect. or the powdered m.s.g.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Never thought of trying anchovie paste. I'm just learning to cook with
the canned ones. It does add a "something savory" to anything you add
it to for sure.

So, a healthier MSG substitute? I doubt the sodium content would be any
lower. <g>
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:52:22 -0600, Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>>> Pretty much any acid is sour. Vinegar is pretty common. Some people
>>> keep a bottle of vinegar on the table to add some "sour" to taste, just
>>> like many people keep a bowl of sugar on the table to add to coffee,
>>> tea, cereal or whatever. Many people keep a bottle of ketchup on the
>>> table, too. That has a lot of sugar and some vinegar, so it is a sweet
>>> and sour condiment. I'm confused about this Umami paste. A scientist
>>> in Japan already isolated a primary Umami flavor, know as monosodium
>>> glutamate, or MSG. This process of extraction was patented in 1909:
>>
>> i have no idea of the cost of the umami paste, but i'd guess anchovy paste
>> is cheaper and give much the same effect. or the powdered m.s.g.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> Never thought of trying anchovie paste. I'm just learning to cook with
> the canned ones. It does add a "something savory" to anything you add
> it to for sure.
>
> So, a healthier MSG substitute? I doubt the sodium content would be any
> lower. <g>

probably not. but the sodium load in m.s.g. (especially in the small
quantities a home cook would use) isn't that great.

as far as i can determine (google is clogged with references from 'sodium
kills' or 'm.s.g. maims' sites so actual facts seem hard to come by - most
just say 'don't eat the following things, they're bad'), table salt is 40%
sodium:

<http://www.diturophotography.com/nutrition/pages/salt.htm>

....and m.s.g. is about 21%:

<http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_17608.cfm>

given that most recipes i've seen call for much greater quantities of salt
than for m.s.g. (though they often call for soy sauce as well), i'm not
sure a 'lower-sodium' substitute is even worth searching for.

but i don't have a dog in this fight. my blood pressure is on the low side
(despite smoking like a fiend), and at one time the doc said my blood
concentration of sodium was low.

your pal,
blake

blake wrote on Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:23:53 -0500:

>> In article >,
>> blake murphy > wrote:
>>
>>>> Pretty much any acid is sour. Vinegar is pretty common.
>>>> Some people keep a bottle of vinegar on the table to add
>>>> some "sour" to taste, just like many people keep a bowl of
>>>> sugar on the table to add to coffee, tea, cereal or
>>>> whatever. Many people keep a bottle of ketchup on the
>>>> table, too. That has a lot of sugar and some vinegar, so
>>>> it is a sweet and sour condiment. I'm confused about this
>>>> Umami paste. A scientist in Japan already isolated a
>>>> primary Umami flavor, know as monosodium glutamate, or MSG.
>>>> This process of extraction was patented in 1909:
>>>
>>> i have no idea of the cost of the umami paste, but i'd guess
>>> anchovy paste is cheaper and give much the same effect. or
>>> the powdered m.s.g.
>>>
>>> your pal,
>>> blake
>>
>> Never thought of trying anchovie paste. I'm just learning to
>> cook with the canned ones. It does add a "something savory"
>> to anything you add it to for sure.
>>
>> So, a healthier MSG substitute? I doubt the sodium content
>> would be any lower. <g>

> probably not. but the sodium load in m.s.g. (especially in
> the small quantities a home cook would use) isn't that great.

> as far as i can determine (google is clogged with references
> from 'sodium kills' or 'm.s.g. maims' sites so actual facts
> seem hard to come by - most just say 'don't eat the following
> things, they're bad'), table salt is 40% sodium:

> <http://www.diturophotography.com/nutrition/pages/salt.htm>

> ...and m.s.g. is about 21%:

> <http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_17608.cfm>

> given that most recipes i've seen call for much greater
> quantities of salt than for m.s.g. (though they often call for
> soy sauce as well), i'm not sure a 'lower-sodium' substitute
> is even worth searching for.

> but i don't have a dog in this fight. my blood pressure is on
> the low side (despite smoking like a fiend), and at one time
> the doc said my blood concentration of sodium was low.

I'll just mention again that MSG itself is not present in food even if
you sprinkle some on it. What is there is glutamate ions and glutamic
acid is a major component of proteins from which it released by cooking.
I wonder if the "slow food" gang realize how much glutamate they are
obtaining by using a crock pot.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On 2010-02-10, James Silverton wrote:

> I can and do buy MSG, usually as Japanese Aji-No-Motu, in my Chinese
> supermarket. I believe it is made in factories by fermentation of fungi
> (possibly) and the process was invented at the beginning of the last
> century.

ISTR that Harold McGee says something slightly derogatory about modern
MSG production, to the effect that "the essence of flavour" (I think
that's a literal translation from Chinese or Japanese) is now cranked
out industrially. But I can't remember what process he meant (if I
remember, I'll look it up later).

Have you come across recipes that specify MSG (I haven't), or do you
use it at your own discretion? (Just curious.)


--
hmmmm: sounds like the same DLL hell problem my cousin had. try
deleting all DLLs in your Windows/system32 directory and see what
happens. (Bryce Utting)

On 2010-02-12, Omelet wrote:

> Never thought of trying anchovie paste. I'm just learning to cook with
> the canned ones. It does add a "something savory" to anything you add
> it to for sure.

The only problem with the anchovies I use (in glass jars) is that they
include tiny bones. I guess the bones in canned ones are softer?


--
Oh, I am just a student, sir, and I only want to learn
But it's hard to read through the rising smoke
of the books that you want to burn
[Phil Ochs]

Adam Funk wrote:
>
> ISTR that Harold McGee says something slightly derogatory about modern
> MSG production, to the effect that "the essence of flavour" (I think
> that's a literal translation from Chinese or Japanese) is now cranked
> out industrially. But I can't remember what process he meant (if I
> remember, I'll look it up later).

As opposed to what? MSG made the old-fashioned way,
by hand? Artisan MSG? There ain't no such thing!

MSG production began about 100 years ago in Japan
when a chemistry professor isolated MSG from a type
of seaweed known for its flavor-enhancing effects.
The company he started still exists, Ajinomoto.

For a long time, it was a by-product of beet sugar
production -- Steffen process waste is rich in MSG.
But I believe that these days it's all made by
bacterial fermentation. (Technically, that's not
vegan because bacteria are animals in the old
two-kingdom classification system. They lack
cell walls.)

"Adam Funk" > wrote in message ...
| On 2010-02-12, Omelet wrote:
|
| > Never thought of trying anchovie paste. I'm just learning to cook with
| > the canned ones. It does add a "something savory" to anything you add
| > it to for sure.
|
| The only problem with the anchovies I use (in glass jars) is that they
| include tiny bones. I guess the bones in canned ones are softer?

Not in my experience. I don't know of any way to tell whether
the canned ones or the jarred ones are softer, harder, bonier
or less bony. Total crap shoot, but they all taste pretty much
the same. If the bones bother you (they bother me occasionally)
use the tube paste; pretty much the same; the two ones around
here are Roland and Giovanni's; the Roland is considerably purer.

pavane

"Adam Funk" wrote
> James Silverton wrote:

>> I can and do buy MSG, usually as Japanese Aji-No-Motu, in my Chinese
>> supermarket. I believe it is made in factories by fermentation of fungi
>> (possibly) and the process was invented at the beginning of the last
>> century.

I think it's aji-no-moto? I'd check but my current tin is from China,
Ve-Tsin. Pretty gold tin holder. Will last me years.

> ISTR that Harold McGee says something slightly derogatory about modern
> MSG production, to the effect that "the essence of flavour" (I think
> that's a literal translation from Chinese or Japanese) is now cranked
> out industrially. But I can't remember what process he meant (if I
> remember, I'll look it up later).

> Have you come across recipes that specify MSG (I haven't), or do you
> use it at your own discretion? (Just curious.)

I have recipes that call for it as well as just knowing when a pinch or so
will enhance something. It adds a subtle boost to many savory sauces.
Also, used in correct amounts, can help you reduce sodium intake because
it's lower than pure salt and yet provides something else so you don't need
as much salt.

On 2010-02-13, Mark Thorson wrote:

> Adam Funk wrote:
>>
>> ISTR that Harold McGee says something slightly derogatory about modern
>> MSG production, to the effect that "the essence of flavour" (I think
>> that's a literal translation from Chinese or Japanese) is now cranked
>> out industrially. But I can't remember what process he meant (if I
>> remember, I'll look it up later).
>
> As opposed to what? MSG made the old-fashioned way,
> by hand? Artisan MSG? There ain't no such thing!

As opposed to traditional ingredients that contain MSG and related
flavourings.

> MSG production began about 100 years ago in Japan
> when a chemistry professor isolated MSG from a type
> of seaweed known for its flavor-enhancing effects.
> The company he started still exists, Ajinomoto.

The "Seaweed and the Original MSG" box on p.342 of _On Food and
Cooking_ (2nd edn) talks about Ikeda's discovery of MSG in kombu and
exposition of "umami", then the discovery of IMP in cured skipjack
tuna, then GMP in shiitake mushrooms. Other bits of the book explain
the elaborate traditional Japanese methods for making kombu and this
cured tuna. He mentions Ajinomoto, then "Chinese restaurant syndrome"
and the studies that discredited this, and concludes this box as
follows:

The most unfortunate aspect of the MSG saga is how it has been
exploited to provide a cheap, one-dimensional substitute for real
and remarkable foods. As Fuchsia Dunlop writes in her book on
Sichuan cooking, _Land of Plenty_,

It is a bitter irony that in China of all places, where chefs
have spent centuries developing the most sophisticated culinary
techniques, this mass-produced white power should have been given
the name _wei jing_, "the essence of flavor."

(Of course, you could make the same argument about salt, or liquid
smoke (which I used to use mainly in homebrewing), or pre-ground
pepper, I guess. Next time I see MSG powder in a Chinese grocery, I'm
going to try it.)

> For a long time, it was a by-product of beet sugar production --
> Steffen process waste is rich in MSG. But I believe that these days
> it's all made by bacterial fermentation. (Technically, that's not
> vegan because bacteria are animals in the old two-kingdom
> classification system. They lack cell walls.)

I think everything edible on the planet has bacteria on the surface
that you either wash off, kill by cooking, or eat. That doesn't leave
much. Somehow I doubt that vegans use the old two-kingdom system!


--
I spend almost as much time figuring out what's wrong with my computer
as I do actually using it. Networked software, especially, requires
frequent updates and maintenance, all of which gets in the way of
doing routine work. (Stoll 1995)