In article >, "Jean B." >
wrote:

> > What else?
> > Inquiring minds want to know. :-)
>
> None of my answers were meant to be definitive. As I read on in
> the thread, there were a lot more ideas on this, some pretty
> basic. In part, too, it depends on what one considers to be a
> flavoring. Most ingredients could be considered as such, although
> that wasn't how I was looking at the question.

The question was meant to be general and wide open.
Apologies if I did not communicate that. :-)

At least it is on topic. <g>

> >
> >>> Thai: Same as chinese but add different types of hot pepper
> >> JB: Soy sauce, kapi or fish sauce, lemon grass, galangal, kaffir
> >> lime (leaves and/or rind), (more)
> >
> > I can get galangal. Just have not explored it yet. I understand ginger
> > can be substituted?
>
> People do substitute it, but I don't. I don't find them to be
> that similar.

Ok, now y'all have inspired me to try it. I'll usually taste it "as is"
before adding it, or google for recipes that include it. While I seldom
follow recipes, I'll get the general ideas.
> >
> > Can't get Kaffir locally.
>
> I have seen ONE kaffir lime in the market in my life. You can get
> frozen leaves and rind in some Asian markets. Hmmm. After I
> move, I need to reclaim my poor kaffir lime tree.
> >
> >>> Mexican/Spanish: chili, cumin, chocolate
> >> JB: chiles of various sorts, cumin, I dunno I haven't been
> >> cooking that for a LONG time.
> >
> > Why not? <g>
>
> Mainly because my daughter has a bias against Mexican
> food--without having tried it! And I am more into Asian food,
> which she likes.

I understand...
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Jinx Minx" > wrote:
>
>> >> Indian, curries
>> >
>> > Absolutely, but curries are mixes. What would you add to make a curry
>> > other than hot peppers and turmeric?
>> >
>>
>> Cumin, coriander, cayenne, cardamom, cinnamon, fenugreek, mustard seed,
>> asafoetida, tamarind, garlic, onion...
>
> Nice mix. Proportions???
> --
> Peace! Om
>

There is no set proportion ratio since "curry" isn't one specific dish.
These are just some of the more common (and readily available) spices I use.
I cook *a lot* of Indian food, and I always grind my spices fresh for it. I
also make my own "curry powder" blends for use in other recipes. Some are
heavy on cumin, others are more turmeric based, some are hot, some are not.
Sorry, that doesn't really help you!

Jinx

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:23:48 -0500, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

> Omelet wrote on Sun, 28 Feb 2010 05:47:15 -0600:
>
>>> Andy wrote:
>> >> Salsa is now the #1 selling condiment in the USA, putting
>> >> ketchup in 2nd place.
>> >>
>> >> Who saw THAT coming?!?
>> >>
>> >> Andy
>> >>
>>> It depends on where you grew up; we were raised to put salsa
>>> on eggs. My husband puts ketchup on his eggs, which just
>>> doesn't seem right. lol
>>>
>>> Becca
>
>> Both work imho. Depends on my mood. :-d
>
>There are also Huevos Rancheros. Are they all that much different than
>fried eggs with salsa?

Oh yes, they are way different. Ranchero sauce is a whole nother
thing.

koko
--

There is no love more sincere than the love of food
George Bernard Shaw
www.kokoscorner.typepad.com
updated 02/20/10

Jinx Minx wrote:
> There is no set proportion ratio since "curry" isn't one specific dish.
> These are just some of the more common (and readily available) spices I use.
> I cook *a lot* of Indian food, and I always grind my spices fresh for it. I
> also make my own "curry powder" blends for use in other recipes. Some are
> heavy on cumin, others are more turmeric based, some are hot, some are not.
> Sorry, that doesn't really help you!
>
> Jinx
>
>
I used to cook a lot of Indian food, but then I burnt out on
kalonji. Now I am back into it though. Have you got any favorite
books?

--
Jean B.

"Omelet" wrote
"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote:

>> > Chinese: Garlic, Ginger root, Soy sauce, fish sauce, MSG, white
>> > pepper,
>> > sesame seeds and/or sesame oil
>>
>> Uh... fish sauce isn't Chinese. And there are some MAJOR Chinese flavors
>> you
>> left out: five-spice, Szechuan pepper, citrus peel, dried chiles,
>> Shaoxing
>> wine, hoising sauce, oyster sauce, black mushrooms, fermented black beans
>> all leap readily to mind, and I'm sure to have forgotten at least another
>> half-dozen.
>
> That is why I posted this luv. :-) For the opinions and education!

China is kinda like trying to define the top 5-7 of USA. Big place and
regionalized.

>> > Japanese: Same as above but add sugar
>>
>> Many things in common, but fish sauce should be excluded from the
>> Japanese
>> flavor palette as well.
>
> It appears some disagree with that.

Not me though. The problem with the name 'fish sauce' is it is an english
translation always. It gets used in too many ways for too many products. Go
one place and kikkoman Soy sauce is called 'fish sauce', go another place
and Tiparos brand Patis is called 'fish sauce'. Other than the color and a
saltyness, there is little relation to them. Patis is much like a liquified
anchovy (a sauce made literally of fish and strong fish taste to it) while
the others are soy bean based (no fish taste at all but matches nicely).

Bob is being specific to actual 'made of fish sauce' which is used in Japan,
but Dashi is the primary element unless you want a 30 deep list. If so,
'patis' would hit around #30.

Now for Thailand, add Patis and remove Dashi ;-)

Anyone thought to add Filipeno?

To me it feels like Garlic, chile, vinegar, sweet/salty dried fruits,
calamansi

It's what reminds me of the place at least.

"Omelet" wrote

>> Fish sauce is not typically found in Japanese cooking. Fish taste
>> typically comes from dashi.
>
> Ok, I had to google Dashi.
> Soup stock. So the stock I make from shrimp shells can be called Dashi?

Eekkk!! No! Hehe hard to explain, dashi is a stock made of dried fish
(mackeral, and others) with seaweed. Oddly it has little fish taste to it.
You can try it easy as it's sold widely in any asian store. 15$ will get
you a 1,000 serving box but reality that is a 500 serving box for me and 750
probably for you. Serving is 3/4 cup. I used to make it myself from dried
fish and dried seaweed but the box is just fine so no longer bother.

"Omelet" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

(Japan cookery)

>> In fact, the China list doesnt really match. Oh they use all those
>> things,
>> but proportionally if i wanted a small list you can remove the white
>> pepper
>> and possibly the ginger root. Insert Dashi (a dried fish and seaweed
>> stock
>> for others reading who never heard of it) which is used in some level in
>> every meal I can recall from there. Westernized recipes of Japan type
>> use
>> chicken stock in it's place. Miso as a miso based dashi soup is probably
>> the national breakfast. Seaweeds actually come next possibly as the
>> flavor
>> of real Japan. After that, Garlic, Seseame seeds/oil, and soy sauce.
>>
>> 'Fish sauce' is too generic in Asia to have a real meaning. Sometimes
>> it's
>> soy sauce (used on fish) and sometimes it's made *of* fermented fish
>> (Patis).
>>
>> So Japan: Dashi, Miso, Seaweed, Garlic, Sesame seed/oil, soy sauce (for a
>> short version).
>
> Cool, thanks for the input. I recently bought some fish sauce (made
> from fermented fish) for the first time and have not been impressed. The
> flavor is rather weak imho...

Japan doenst really use that as much. They normally if you think about it,
would be flavoring *fish* or trying to bring down the flavor of somewhat
aged fish. Fish sauce to them is just a way to preserve it and the tactics
there lead more to drying it.

I won't say they dont have it, just not a major item. They normally dried
the fish and made dashi of it (a much lighter product, basically not
stronger than chicken broth).

> I have yet to experiment more with that Miso but want to.

Lots of types! Start with the lightest color type for adjustment. It
freezes forever in a zip lock baggie and never gets hard so you can finger
out the amount needed direct from the frozen baggie and add to a dish.

> For the china list, I was going somewhat by recipes, and some by what I
> found in the spice aisle at the local asian market. :-)
>
> I'm surprised you are excluding ginger root? Are you sure? To me,
> garlic and ginger root (and oyster sauce) are matches made in heaven!
> Sesame oil works in that combo too?

Grin, if cutting the Japan list to the tiop 5-6, Ginger doesnt make the cut.
Gnger (or Galingal) hits about number 20 of 30. Just like Wasabi may be in
your thoughts but actual use of Wasabi would be below Ginger at around 21 or
so.

cshenk wrote on Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:17:25 -0500:

>>> Fish sauce is not typically found in Japanese cooking. Fish taste
>>> typically comes from dashi.
>>
>> Ok, I had to google Dashi.
>> Soup stock. So the stock I make from shrimp shells can be
>> called Dashi?

I've got two varieties of dried Japanese stock. One is Hon Dashi, made
from Bonito and used by me mainly for miso soup (1 tsp for 3 cups is
recommended) and Hawaiian Saimin noodle soup. By the way, salt and MSG
are the first and second listed ingredients. The other stock is a
vegetable one, labelled Chuka Aji Bin (salt and carrot extract are the
first and second ingredients.) According to a book that I rely on a lot,
"Sushi" by Ryuichi Yoshii, dashi is made from Bonito and Hon Dashi
means "instant dashi)".

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 05:43:08 -0600, Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
> "cshenk" > wrote:
>
>>>> > Japanese: Same as above but add sugar
>>>>
>>>> You *know* I was gonna chime in here (grin).
>>>
>>> I was hoping. :-)
>>
>> Hehe that was a rush job as I was running out the door (we adpoted a new dog
>> and now await the paperwork etc to work though the system).
>>
>>>> You missed Miso and a glorious
>>>> array of Seaweeds (fresh and dried). In fact, the predominant one of
>>>> Dashi
>>>> as well.
>>>
>>> Ah yes, And I actually like seaweed.
>>
>> In fact, the China list doesnt really match. Oh they use all those things,
>> but proportionally if i wanted a small list you can remove the white pepper
>> and possibly the ginger root. Insert Dashi (a dried fish and seaweed stock
>> for others reading who never heard of it) which is used in some level in
>> every meal I can recall from there. Westernized recipes of Japan type use
>> chicken stock in it's place. Miso as a miso based dashi soup is probably
>> the national breakfast. Seaweeds actually come next possibly as the flavor
>> of real Japan. After that, Garlic, Seseame seeds/oil, and soy sauce.
>>
>> 'Fish sauce' is too generic in Asia to have a real meaning. Sometimes it's
>> soy sauce (used on fish) and sometimes it's made *of* fermented fish
>> (Patis).
>>
>> So Japan: Dashi, Miso, Seaweed, Garlic, Sesame seed/oil, soy sauce (for a
>> short version).
>
> Cool, thanks for the input. I recently bought some fish sauce (made
> from fermented fish) for the first time and have not been impressed. The
> flavor is rather weak imho...
>
> I have yet to experiment more with that Miso but want to.
>
> For the china list, I was going somewhat by recipes, and some by what I
> found in the spice aisle at the local asian market. :-)
>
> I'm surprised you are excluding ginger root? Are you sure? To me,
> garlic and ginger root (and oyster sauce) are matches made in heaven!
> Sesame oil works in that combo too?

i think cshenk must have meant that the chinese list doesn't match the
japan list. the rest of her comment applies to japan, and you can't get
more basic to chinese than ginger and garlic.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:10:14 -0600, Becca wrote:

> Andy wrote:
>> Salsa is now the #1 selling condiment in the USA, putting ketchup in 2nd
>> place.
>>
>> Who saw THAT coming?!?
>>
>> Andy
>>
>
> It depends on where you grew up; we were raised to put salsa on eggs. My
> husband puts ketchup on his eggs, which just doesn't seem right. lol
>
> Becca

nope, ketchup doesn't. salsa does, though.

your pal,
blake

On 2/28/2010 1:17 PM, cshenk wrote:
> "Omelet" wrote
>
>>> Fish sauce is not typically found in Japanese cooking. Fish taste
>>> typically comes from dashi.
>>
>> Ok, I had to google Dashi.
>> Soup stock. So the stock I make from shrimp shells can be called Dashi?
>
> Eekkk!! No! Hehe hard to explain, dashi is a stock made of dried fish
> (mackeral, and others) with seaweed. Oddly it has little fish taste to
> it. You can try it easy as it's sold widely in any asian store. 15$ will
> get you a 1,000 serving box but reality that is a 500 serving box for me
> and 750 probably for you. Serving is 3/4 cup. I used to make it myself
> from dried fish and dried seaweed but the box is just fine so no longer
> bother.
>
>
Yea, it is not quite a strong fish taste but more like the enhancement
you get from Worcestershire sauce because of the anchovies.

On 2/28/2010 2:02 PM, James Silverton wrote:
> cshenk wrote on Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:17:25 -0500:
>
>>>> Fish sauce is not typically found in Japanese cooking. Fish taste
>>>> typically comes from dashi.
>>>
>>> Ok, I had to google Dashi.
>>> Soup stock. So the stock I make from shrimp shells can be
>>> called Dashi?
>
> I've got two varieties of dried Japanese stock. One is Hon Dashi, made
> from Bonito and used by me mainly for miso soup (1 tsp for 3 cups is
> recommended) and Hawaiian Saimin noodle soup. By the way, salt and MSG
> are the first and second listed ingredients. The other stock is a
> vegetable one, labelled Chuka Aji Bin (salt and carrot extract are the
> first and second ingredients.) According to a book that I rely on a lot,
> "Sushi" by Ryuichi Yoshii, dashi is made from Bonito and Hon Dashi means
> "instant dashi)".
>

And don't forget "iriko dashi" literally meaning made from small fish.

In article >,
"Jinx Minx" > wrote:

> >> Cumin, coriander, cayenne, cardamom, cinnamon, fenugreek, mustard seed,
> >> asafoetida, tamarind, garlic, onion...
> >
> > Nice mix. Proportions???
> >
>
> There is no set proportion ratio since "curry" isn't one specific dish.
> These are just some of the more common (and readily available) spices I use.
> I cook *a lot* of Indian food, and I always grind my spices fresh for it. I
> also make my own "curry powder" blends for use in other recipes. Some are
> heavy on cumin, others are more turmeric based, some are hot, some are not.
> Sorry, that doesn't really help you!
>
> Jinx

In other words, adjust to taste. <g> I can live with that as I do it
all the time too! :-)
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

In article >,
"cshenk" > wrote:

> >> Many things in common, but fish sauce should be excluded from the
> >> Japanese
> >> flavor palette as well.
> >
> > It appears some disagree with that.
>
> Not me though. The problem with the name 'fish sauce' is it is an english
> translation always. It gets used in too many ways for too many products. Go
> one place and kikkoman Soy sauce is called 'fish sauce', go another place
> and Tiparos brand Patis is called 'fish sauce'. Other than the color and a
> saltyness, there is little relation to them. Patis is much like a liquified
> anchovy (a sauce made literally of fish and strong fish taste to it) while
> the others are soy bean based (no fish taste at all but matches nicely).
>
> Bob is being specific to actual 'made of fish sauce' which is used in Japan,
> but Dashi is the primary element unless you want a 30 deep list. If so,
> 'patis' would hit around #30.
>
> Now for Thailand, add Patis and remove Dashi ;-)
>
> Anyone thought to add Filipeno?
>
> To me it feels like Garlic, chile, vinegar, sweet/salty dried fruits,
> calamansi
>
> It's what reminds me of the place at least.

To me, fish sauce is fermented fish juice. <g> I've researched it so
understand how it's made. At one time, that process would have grossed
me out and I'd never have gone near it!

To date tho', I'm not impressed. It has imparted no noticeable flavor to
recipes I've used it in at this point. It was not expensive tho' so I'm
not out any real money.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

In article >,
"cshenk" > wrote:

> "Omelet" wrote
>
> >> Fish sauce is not typically found in Japanese cooking. Fish taste
> >> typically comes from dashi.
> >
> > Ok, I had to google Dashi.
> > Soup stock. So the stock I make from shrimp shells can be called Dashi?
>
> Eekkk!! No! Hehe hard to explain, dashi is a stock made of dried fish
> (mackeral, and others) with seaweed. Oddly it has little fish taste to it.
> You can try it easy as it's sold widely in any asian store. 15$ will get
> you a 1,000 serving box but reality that is a 500 serving box for me and 750
> probably for you. Serving is 3/4 cup. I used to make it myself from dried
> fish and dried seaweed but the box is just fine so no longer bother.

Ok, I'll look for it next time I hit the asian market. Thanks!
I have dried seaweed on hand, but no dried fish.

I've not yet been brave enough to try to use dried fish and shrimps from
MT. Just dried mushrooms and seaweed. <g>
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

In article >,
"cshenk" > wrote:

> > I have yet to experiment more with that Miso but want to.
>
> Lots of types! Start with the lightest color type for adjustment. It
> freezes forever in a zip lock baggie and never gets hard so you can finger
> out the amount needed direct from the frozen baggie and add to a dish.

That is good to know. Last time I bought it, I used a little of it and
tossed the rest after it spent about 3 months in the 'frige. For some
stupid reason, I did not think of freezing it.

>
> > For the china list, I was going somewhat by recipes, and some by what I
> > found in the spice aisle at the local asian market. :-)
> >
> > I'm surprised you are excluding ginger root? Are you sure? To me,
> > garlic and ginger root (and oyster sauce) are matches made in heaven!
> > Sesame oil works in that combo too?
>
> Grin, if cutting the Japan list to the tiop 5-6, Ginger doesnt make the cut.
> Gnger (or Galingal) hits about number 20 of 30. Just like Wasabi may be in
> your thoughts but actual use of Wasabi would be below Ginger at around 21 or
> so.

So, what, in your opinion, are the top 3 flavorings of japanese food
other than the obvious fish, rice and seaweed? ;-)
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

In article >,
"James Silverton" > wrote:

> cshenk wrote on Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:17:25 -0500:
>
> >>> Fish sauce is not typically found in Japanese cooking. Fish taste
> >>> typically comes from dashi.
> >>
> >> Ok, I had to google Dashi.
> >> Soup stock. So the stock I make from shrimp shells can be
> >> called Dashi?
>
> I've got two varieties of dried Japanese stock. One is Hon Dashi, made
> from Bonito and used by me mainly for miso soup (1 tsp for 3 cups is
> recommended) and Hawaiian Saimin noodle soup. By the way, salt and MSG
> are the first and second listed ingredients. The other stock is a
> vegetable one, labelled Chuka Aji Bin (salt and carrot extract are the
> first and second ingredients.) According to a book that I rely on a lot,
> "Sushi" by Ryuichi Yoshii, dashi is made from Bonito and Hon Dashi
> means "instant dashi)".

Nice. Thank you! Dried Bonito is not hard to find at the asian market,
but I think I'd rather try the Dashi powder.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> > I'm surprised you are excluding ginger root? Are you sure? To me,
> > garlic and ginger root (and oyster sauce) are matches made in heaven!
> > Sesame oil works in that combo too?
>
> i think cshenk must have meant that the chinese list doesn't match the
> japan list. the rest of her comment applies to japan, and you can't get
> more basic to chinese than ginger and garlic.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Yes, she was. I think she was stressing that Chinese and Japanese
cuisine are nowhere near similar. :-)
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

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In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:10:14 -0600, Becca wrote:
>
> > Andy wrote:
> >> Salsa is now the #1 selling condiment in the USA, putting ketchup in 2nd
> >> place.
> >>
> >> Who saw THAT coming?!?
> >>
> >> Andy
> >>
> >
> > It depends on where you grew up; we were raised to put salsa on eggs. My
> > husband puts ketchup on his eggs, which just doesn't seem right. lol
> >
> > Becca
>
> nope, ketchup doesn't. salsa does, though.
>
> your pal,
> blake

I like both. Depends on my mood for food.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

"James Silverton" wrote
> cshenk wrote

> I've got two varieties of dried Japanese stock. One is Hon Dashi, made
> from Bonito and used by me mainly for miso soup (1 tsp for 3 cups is
> recommended) and Hawaiian Saimin noodle soup. By the way, salt and MSG are
> the first and second listed ingredients. The other stock is a

> "Sushi" by Ryuichi Yoshii, dashi is made from Bonito and Hon Dashi means
> "instant dashi)".

Exactly and I have the same brand of instant dashi. Home made straight
dashi doesnt add salt (unless you want to) and is a simple fairly fast thing
to make. I normally did add MSG to it but not salt.

When you home make it, you use a teaball (large) and you refridgerate that
ball for 2nd and 3rd use dashi. 4th use even at times (grin). The
recommended level of the Hon Dashi is a fast cook 2nd use level. Add more
powder for first use levels.

I do sometimes make my own for nostalgia or if i want to adjust the seaweed
component upwards.

On 2/28/2010 5:43 PM, Omelet wrote:
> In >,
> > wrote:
>
>>>> Many things in common, but fish sauce should be excluded from the
>>>> Japanese
>>>> flavor palette as well.
>>>
>>> It appears some disagree with that.
>>
>> Not me though. The problem with the name 'fish sauce' is it is an english
>> translation always. It gets used in too many ways for too many products. Go
>> one place and kikkoman Soy sauce is called 'fish sauce', go another place
>> and Tiparos brand Patis is called 'fish sauce'. Other than the color and a
>> saltyness, there is little relation to them. Patis is much like a liquified
>> anchovy (a sauce made literally of fish and strong fish taste to it) while
>> the others are soy bean based (no fish taste at all but matches nicely).
>>
>> Bob is being specific to actual 'made of fish sauce' which is used in Japan,
>> but Dashi is the primary element unless you want a 30 deep list. If so,
>> 'patis' would hit around #30.
>>
>> Now for Thailand, add Patis and remove Dashi ;-)
>>
>> Anyone thought to add Filipeno?
>>
>> To me it feels like Garlic, chile, vinegar, sweet/salty dried fruits,
>> calamansi
>>
>> It's what reminds me of the place at least.
>
> To me, fish sauce is fermented fish juice.<g> I've researched it so
> understand how it's made. At one time, that process would have grossed
> me out and I'd never have gone near it!
>
> To date tho', I'm not impressed. It has imparted no noticeable flavor to
> recipes I've used it in at this point. It was not expensive tho' so I'm
> not out any real money.

Thats part of the "magic". You know what it is and you know how it
smells but yet you can't directly taste or smell it in most dishes. I
have had someone who "hates fish" ask why something tastes really good
and they can't believe there is fish sauce in the dish.

"Omelet" wrote
> "James Silverton" wrote:

>> I've got two varieties of dried Japanese stock. One is Hon Dashi, made
>> from Bonito and used by me mainly for miso soup (1 tsp for 3 cups is

> Nice. Thank you! Dried Bonito is not hard to find at the asian market,
> but I think I'd rather try the Dashi powder.

I can give you the recipe to make your own but frankly the Hon Dashi is just
fine. At the market you will see the big box (hopefully) and lots of little
packets that make from 2 cups to 1 quart. They are *identical* so look at
the big box and if you just want to try a smaller sample, use the bigger box
measurements.

I do it by eyeball. Box says (translated) 1/4 ts per 3/4 cup. That to me
is too light. Try it though as my tastes have been highly adjusted to Japan
levels on this one. (In Japan, the box is considered an honorable attempt to
save money by using such a low level). Hehe i even ran this by an American
friend before cooking for some folks who'd never tasted real Miso soup. I
used closer to 1 TS per cup is my guess (was dealing with a 2 qt pot of
soup, used TB's and am guessing).

Ok less confusion. Try 1/4 ts in 3/4 cup boiling water. Taste. If not
right, add another 1/4 ts. That should be about right. It's supposed to be
a delicate flavor and not eaten alone but with other things.

Want simple green beans to shine? Cook in dashi instead of water. Same for
spinach or mustard greens.

"Omelet" wrote
> "cshenk" wrote:

> Ok, I'll look for it next time I hit the asian market. Thanks!
> I have dried seaweed on hand, but no dried fish.

No worries! You can add several of the smaller packs to a small pill
bottle/ziplock baggie or something and use it just like the big box. That
lets you 'try it' for about 2.50$. It doesnt go bad. I sometime adjust it
by adding dried seaweed to it and simmer barely for a bit but then, I was
used to the restraunt fancy adjustments as well as my own.

> I've not yet been brave enough to try to use dried fish and shrimps from
> MT. Just dried mushrooms and seaweed. <g>

Smile, take it easy step by step. Those other things arent going away.

"Omelet" wrote
> "cshenk" wrote:

>> > I have yet to experiment more with that Miso but want to.
>>
>> Lots of types! Start with the lightest color type for adjustment. It
>> freezes forever in a zip lock baggie and never gets hard so you can
>> finger
>> out the amount needed direct from the frozen baggie and add to a dish.
>
> That is good to know. Last time I bought it, I used a little of it and
> tossed the rest after it spent about 3 months in the 'frige. For some
> stupid reason, I did not think of freezing it.

Grin, American 'food safety' ideas there. In fact, this doesnt need
refridgeration at all to be food safe. It 'ferments' a bit though if not
refridgerated.

History note. Raw pork in the USA was brined to keep it over winter with a
huge amount of salt. In Japan, they did the same but in miso.

You'll be happier at the flavor of it from the freezer if not used in the
first month or so after opening. Just put it in a ziplock type baggie in
the freezer. Mines almost 3 years old and I shipped some from Japan
(unrefridgerated) that is in there too, still good.

>> > For the china list, I was going somewhat by recipes, and some by what I
>> > found in the spice aisle at the local asian market. :-)
>> >
>> > I'm surprised you are excluding ginger root? Are you sure? To me,
>> > garlic and ginger root (and oyster sauce) are matches made in heaven!
>> > Sesame oil works in that combo too?

I was excluding that from the Japan list. Sorry if not clear.

>> Grin, if cutting the Japan list to the tiop 5-6, Ginger doesnt make the
>> cut.
>> Gnger (or Galingal) hits about number 20 of 30. Just like Wasabi may be
>> in
>> your thoughts but actual use of Wasabi would be below Ginger at around 21
>> or
>> so.
>
> So, what, in your opinion, are the top 3 flavorings of japanese food
> other than the obvious fish, rice and seaweed? ;-)

I don't think they can be defined by a top 3. Among other things, Japan
though small by USA standards, is separated by many islands and cooking
quite diverse. Also it's hard because they do not so much 'flavor' foods as
work with the natural goodness to bring it out.

I'm sorry. I lived there 7 years and can't answer it that way. I'm
thinking right now and going 'wow, thats a hard one'. Perhaps this is why
their cookery seems so mysterious and while asian, a unique version of it?

If dashi is accounted for in the fish and seaweed: Miso (which is as varied
as ketcup to canned rotel chile tomatoes and all things between in variety),
tamari ( a thick soy sauce and some are mushroom based not soy), tofu (it
has a flavor if you do not cover it).

That omits a whole series of 'blow your socks off' hot foods and neat little
buried treasure rice balls as well as the normal pickeled 'whatever' served
at each meal.

Oh I see. I know why it's so hard to answer. Japan meals normally have at
least 5 items. 7 more common. Fancy meals come in sets of ?7? items.
You just dont have 'one flavor' to a meal. You get 5-7-9 bits in small
portions that make up a meal. If i had to bring it to 3, it would be sugar,
vinegar, and salt.

Humm.

In article >,
George > wrote:

> > To me, fish sauce is fermented fish juice.<g> I've researched it so
> > understand how it's made. At one time, that process would have grossed
> > me out and I'd never have gone near it!
> >
> > To date tho', I'm not impressed. It has imparted no noticeable flavor to
> > recipes I've used it in at this point. It was not expensive tho' so I'm
> > not out any real money.
>
> Thats part of the "magic". You know what it is and you know how it
> smells but yet you can't directly taste or smell it in most dishes. I
> have had someone who "hates fish" ask why something tastes really good
> and they can't believe there is fish sauce in the dish.

Ah, I see. Kinda like how I really do like to add Anchovie to red sauces.
--
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"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

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"Omelet" wrote
> blake murphy wrote:

>> i think cshenk must have meant that the chinese list doesn't match the
>> japan list. the rest of her comment applies to japan, and you can't get
>> more basic to chinese than ginger and garlic.

> Yes, she was. I think she was stressing that Chinese and Japanese
> cuisine are nowhere near similar. :-)

Grin, yup and sorry for the confusion. Chinese and Japanese are almost
opposite while often using the same vegetables. It's lie sliced tomatoes
(Japan) become stewed tomato sauce (China).

In article >,
"cshenk" > wrote:

> > Nice. Thank you! Dried Bonito is not hard to find at the asian market,
> > but I think I'd rather try the Dashi powder.
>
> I can give you the recipe to make your own but frankly the Hon Dashi is just
> fine. At the market you will see the big box (hopefully) and lots of little
> packets that make from 2 cups to 1 quart. They are *identical* so look at
> the big box and if you just want to try a smaller sample, use the bigger box
> measurements.
>
> I do it by eyeball. Box says (translated) 1/4 ts per 3/4 cup. That to me
> is too light. Try it though as my tastes have been highly adjusted to Japan
> levels on this one. (In Japan, the box is considered an honorable attempt to
> save money by using such a low level). Hehe i even ran this by an American
> friend before cooking for some folks who'd never tasted real Miso soup. I
> used closer to 1 TS per cup is my guess (was dealing with a 2 qt pot of
> soup, used TB's and am guessing).
>
> Ok less confusion. Try 1/4 ts in 3/4 cup boiling water. Taste. If not
> right, add another 1/4 ts. That should be about right. It's supposed to be
> a delicate flavor and not eaten alone but with other things.
>
> Want simple green beans to shine? Cook in dashi instead of water. Same for
> spinach or mustard greens.

Oh man that sounds good! Might have to experiment with dinner guests.
<g> To date, my secret ingredient is either Oyster sauce or mooshed
anchovy. Shrimp shells added to stock are pretty cool too.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

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In article >, "cshenk" >
wrote:

> "Omelet" wrote
> > "cshenk" wrote:
>
> > Ok, I'll look for it next time I hit the asian market. Thanks!
> > I have dried seaweed on hand, but no dried fish.
>
> No worries! You can add several of the smaller packs to a small pill
> bottle/ziplock baggie or something and use it just like the big box. That
> lets you 'try it' for about 2.50$. It doesnt go bad. I sometime adjust it
> by adding dried seaweed to it and simmer barely for a bit but then, I was
> used to the restraunt fancy adjustments as well as my own.
>
> > I've not yet been brave enough to try to use dried fish and shrimps from
> > MT. Just dried mushrooms and seaweed. <g>
>
> Smile, take it easy step by step. Those other things arent going away.

I know. :-) What I've been doing is attempting to try one new food per
visit to the asian market, even if I cannot read the label. <g>

I've found the 'net and the store cashiers to be helpful.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

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In article >,
"cshenk" > wrote:

> > So, what, in your opinion, are the top 3 flavorings of japanese food
> > other than the obvious fish, rice and seaweed? ;-)
>
> I don't think they can be defined by a top 3. Among other things, Japan
> though small by USA standards, is separated by many islands and cooking
> quite diverse. Also it's hard because they do not so much 'flavor' foods as
> work with the natural goodness to bring it out.
>
> I'm sorry. I lived there 7 years and can't answer it that way. I'm
> thinking right now and going 'wow, thats a hard one'. Perhaps this is why
> their cookery seems so mysterious and while asian, a unique version of it?
>
> If dashi is accounted for in the fish and seaweed: Miso (which is as varied
> as ketcup to canned rotel chile tomatoes and all things between in variety),
> tamari ( a thick soy sauce and some are mushroom based not soy), tofu (it
> has a flavor if you do not cover it).
>
> That omits a whole series of 'blow your socks off' hot foods and neat little
> buried treasure rice balls as well as the normal pickeled 'whatever' served
> at each meal.

Thanks for the hints on storing Miso. I do need to play with it more,
and for the above. :-) Japanese food seems to be a real art.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

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"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
> Jinx Minx wrote:
>> There is no set proportion ratio since "curry" isn't one specific dish.
>> These are just some of the more common (and readily available) spices I
>> use. I cook *a lot* of Indian food, and I always grind my spices fresh
>> for it. I also make my own "curry powder" blends for use in other
>> recipes. Some are heavy on cumin, others are more turmeric based, some
>> are hot, some are not. Sorry, that doesn't really help you!
>>
>> Jinx
> I used to cook a lot of Indian food, but then I burnt out on kalonji. Now
> I am back into it though. Have you got any favorite books?
>
> --
> Jean B.

I like all of Julie Sahni's books: Classic Indian Cooking is the hands down
best. I'm also a big fan of Raghavan Iyer and his book 660 Curries, but I
may be prejudiced since he's a local dude here in MN. He also,
incidentally, wrote Betty Crocker's Indian Home Cooking but I don't own that
one so I can't comment on its worthwhileness. Madhur Jaffrey's Indian
Cooking is also high up on my list. I have to confess though, that most of
my best recipes are direct from Indian kitchens and not out of cookbooks at
all. Nothing's better than family recipe home cooking!

Jinx

Jinx Minx wrote:

> There is no set proportion ratio since "curry" isn't one
> specific dish. These are just some of the more common (and
> readily available) spices I use. I cook *a lot* of Indian food,
> and I always grind my spices fresh for it. I also make my
> own "curry powder" blends for use in other recipes. Some are
> heavy on cumin, others are more turmeric based, some are hot,
> some are not.

So.. what is your opinion on the, um, fenugreek controversy? Does
or does not toasting or heating fenugreek create an unusually
lingering odor (which I find pleasant, but some do not)??


Steve

Om wrote:

>> Flavor-wise, galangal is almost piney.
>>
> Okay, I'll try some Galangal next time I see it for sale in the produce
> section at MT or Fiestal. Thanks. If it is piney, would it sub' for
> pine nuts in Pesto?

I don't think of pine nuts as tasting very much like pine, and the texture
of galangal is quite woody and fibrous, so I don't think it would be an
appropriate substitute. Because of its texture you'd have to slice galangal
very thinly across the grain if you wanted to incorporate it into a pesto.
Might be an interesting experiment, though. Galangal has a much stronger
flavor than pine nuts, too, so you wouldn't want to include anything close
to an equivalent volume.

Bob

Omelet > writes:

> In article >,
> "Jinx Minx" > wrote:
>
>> >> Cumin, coriander, cayenne, cardamom, cinnamon, fenugreek, mustard seed,
>> >> asafoetida, tamarind, garlic, onion...
>> >
>> > Nice mix. Proportions???
>> >
>>
>> There is no set proportion ratio since "curry" isn't one specific dish.
>> These are just some of the more common (and readily available) spices I use.
>> I cook *a lot* of Indian food, and I always grind my spices fresh for it. I
>> also make my own "curry powder" blends for use in other recipes. Some are
>> heavy on cumin, others are more turmeric based, some are hot, some are not.
>> Sorry, that doesn't really help you!
>>
>> Jinx
>
> In other words, adjust to taste. <g> I can live with that as I do it
> all the time too! :-)

That's nice.

So now I read here that "adjusting to taste" is ok. Amazing group.

koko wrote:

>> There are also Huevos Rancheros. Are they all that much different than
>> fried eggs with salsa?
>
> Oh yes, they are way different. Ranchero sauce is a whole nother
> thing.

Depends on your personal idea of what "salsa" is. I use the Coyote Cafe
recipe for ranchero sauce, which contains tomatoes, onions, and poblano
chiles...sound familiar?

Bob

cshenk wrote:

>> So, what, in your opinion, are the top 3 flavorings of japanese food
>> other than the obvious fish, rice and seaweed? ;-)
<snip>
> Oh I see. I know why it's so hard to answer. Japan meals normally have
> at least 5 items. 7 more common. Fancy meals come in sets of ?7? items.
> You just dont have 'one flavor' to a meal. You get 5-7-9 bits in small
> portions that make up a meal. If i had to bring it to 3, it would be
> sugar, vinegar, and salt.

What about sesame?

Bob

Bob Terwilliger > wrote:

>koko wrote:

>>> There are also Huevos Rancheros. Are they all that much different than
>>> fried eggs with salsa?

>> Oh yes, they are way different. Ranchero sauce is a whole nother
>> thing.

>Depends on your personal idea of what "salsa" is. I use the Coyote Cafe
>recipe for ranchero sauce, which contains tomatoes, onions, and poblano
>chiles...sound familiar?

I have not made Huevos Rancheros, but yesterday I made migas.
In my approach, I chopped and sauteed onion green bell pepper,
liberally seasoning it with ground NM chile pepper in the process;
then additionally added and sauteed tortilla slices; then poured
on this a mixture of lightly beaten eggs and diced tofu; and added
on top some cheddar cheese and salsa. Cooked mostly covered. This
dish is very satisfying, definite comfort food.

Steve

In article >,
"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote:

> Om wrote:
>
> >> Flavor-wise, galangal is almost piney.
> >>
> > Okay, I'll try some Galangal next time I see it for sale in the produce
> > section at MT or Fiestal. Thanks. If it is piney, would it sub' for
> > pine nuts in Pesto?
>
> I don't think of pine nuts as tasting very much like pine, and the texture
> of galangal is quite woody and fibrous, so I don't think it would be an
> appropriate substitute. Because of its texture you'd have to slice galangal
> very thinly across the grain if you wanted to incorporate it into a pesto.
> Might be an interesting experiment, though. Galangal has a much stronger
> flavor than pine nuts, too, so you wouldn't want to include anything close
> to an equivalent volume.
>
> Bob

I wood not include the fibers! <g>
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

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In article >,
Bogbrush > wrote:

> Omelet > writes:
>
> > In article >,
> > "Jinx Minx" > wrote:
> >
> >> >> Cumin, coriander, cayenne, cardamom, cinnamon, fenugreek, mustard seed,
> >> >> asafoetida, tamarind, garlic, onion...
> >> >
> >> > Nice mix. Proportions???
> >> >
> >>
> >> There is no set proportion ratio since "curry" isn't one specific dish.
> >> These are just some of the more common (and readily available) spices I
> >> use.
> >> I cook *a lot* of Indian food, and I always grind my spices fresh for it.
> >> I
> >> also make my own "curry powder" blends for use in other recipes. Some are
> >> heavy on cumin, others are more turmeric based, some are hot, some are
> >> not.
> >> Sorry, that doesn't really help you!
> >>
> >> Jinx
> >
> > In other words, adjust to taste. <g> I can live with that as I do it
> > all the time too! :-)
>
> That's nice.
>
> So now I read here that "adjusting to taste" is ok. Amazing group.

If I have learned nothing else posting here since 1996, it has been to
respect the personal tastes of others. Food is one of the few pleasures
in life that we can control as adults. Why eat something that is not
appealing? And everybody's tastes vary.

And that's ok.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

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In article >,
Omelet > wrote:

> I do intend to google this subject just for grins, but thought it might
> make a fun and educational thread since this is a world wide list, and
> there are a lot of experienced cooks here...
>
> What do y'all think the most common flavorings and spices are that give
> "ethnic" foods their ethnicity?
>
> Chinese: Garlic, Ginger root, Soy sauce, fish sauce, MSG, white pepper,
> sesame seeds and/or sesame oil
>
> Japanese: Same as above but add sugar
>
> Thai: Same as chinese but add different types of hot pepper
>
> Mexican/Spanish: chili, cumin, chocolate
>
> French; ?

Tarragon and garlic.
>
> German: ?

Mustard and sauerkraut.

> UK/British: ?

Salt and vinegar.

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Steve Pope wrote:

> So.. what is your opinion on the, um, fenugreek controversy? Does
> or does not toasting or heating fenugreek create an unusually
> lingering odor (which I find pleasant, but some do not)??

I recently had occasion to heat fenugreek, and while the odor was fairly
long-lasting, it wasn't NEARLY as pungent or as long-lasting or as
insinuate-itself-into-every-crevice-in-the-kitchen as asafetida (a.k.a.
hing). I won't even bring asafetida into the house anymore.

Bob