I am looking at this recipe. I plan to substitute ground turkey for
the ground veal (veal is not easy to find and I'm not traveling for
it). Trader Joe's sells pancetta, so that's not an issue. Also not
sure about all those carrots. Seems like they'll make a sweet sauce
and I hate sweet tomato sauce. Any comments on the recipe in general?
Will it work basically as is or do you see something glaring that
needs to be fixed?

http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Sauce-107226

Bolognese Sauce
Mario Batali

Gourmet | October 2002

Makes about 8 cups

This recipe is an accompaniment for Pappardelle Bolognese .

2 medium onions, finely chopped
4 celery ribs, finely chopped
2 medium carrots, finely chopped
5 garlic cloves, thinly sliced
1/4 cup extra-virgin olive oil
1/4 pound pancetta or slab bacon, ground by butcher or thinly sliced
and pulsed in food processor until finely chopped
1 pound ground veal
1 pound ground pork (not lean)
1 (6-ounce) can tomato paste
1 cup whole milk
1 cup dry white wine
1 cup water
1 teaspoon fresh thyme leaves
1 1/4 teaspoons kosher salt
1/2 teaspoon black pepper

Directions:

Cook onions, celery, carrot, and garlic in oil in a 6- to 8-quart
heavy pot over moderate heat, stirring occasionally, until softened,
about 5 minutes.

Add pancetta, veal, and pork and cook over moderately high heat,
stirring and breaking up lumps, until no longer pink, about 6 minutes.

Stir in tomato paste, milk, wine, water, and thyme and gently simmer,
covered, until sauce is thickened, 1 to 1 1/2 hours. Add salt and
pepper and remove from heat.

Sauce may be made 2 days ahead and cooled, uncovered, before chilling,
covered. Frozen, it keeps for 1 month.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

sf wrote:

> I am looking at this recipe. I plan to substitute ground turkey for
> the ground veal (veal is not easy to find and I'm not traveling for
> it). Trader Joe's sells pancetta, so that's not an issue. Also not
> sure about all those carrots. Seems like they'll make a sweet sauce
> and I hate sweet tomato sauce. Any comments on the recipe in general?
> Will it work basically as is or do you see something glaring that
> needs to be fixed?
>
> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Sauce-107226
>
> Bolognese Sauce
> Mario Batali

I've made this particular recipe and it's quite good. Hey,
it's Mario.

Instead of turkey I would use chuck. If you're worried
about fat content you could use a very lean chuck. I just
think a bolognese should have a solid beef character to it.

The carrots are ok and will add a very minor note of sweetness.
Definitely won't be overly sweet, especially with your garden
variety supermarket carrot.

Make a lot! It freezes really well.

--
Mort

On Mar 9, 10:18 am, sf > wrote:
> I am looking at this recipe. I plan to substitute ground turkey for
> the ground veal (veal is not easy to find and I'm not traveling for
> it). Trader Joe's sells pancetta, so that's not an issue. Also not
> sure about all those carrots. Seems like they'll make a sweet sauce
> and I hate sweet tomato sauce. Any comments on the recipe in general?
> Will it work basically as is or do you see something glaring that
> needs to be fixed?

The recipe looks to me like it'll work, though my version differs
somewhat. I don't like ground turkey; if they sell ground dark meat
turkey maybe that'd be better.

[snip ingrediients]
As long as the two carrots are not large I think they wouldn't be too
sweet.

> .....
> Add pancetta, veal, and pork and cook over moderately high heat,
> stirring and breaking up lumps, until no longer pink, about 6 minutes.
>
I'd cook the meats a few minutes longer than this and then drain fat
before proceeding.

> Stir in tomato paste, milk, wine, water, and thyme and gently simmer,
> covered, until sauce is thickened, 1 to 1 1/2 hours. Add salt and
> pepper and remove from heat.

Other recipes add the milk in increments over the simmering period.
I've never known why. I'd add "stir occasionally" to the directions.
>
> Sauce may be made 2 days ahead and cooled, uncovered, before chilling,
> covered. Frozen, it keeps for 1 month.
>
Only 1 month, really!? I make a classic "red gravy" in large quantity
that I've successfully frozen for up to six months. Maybe because
this is more of a meat sauce...... -aem

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> I am looking at this recipe. I plan to substitute ground turkey for
> the ground veal (veal is not easy to find and I'm not traveling for
> it). Trader Joe's sells pancetta, so that's not an issue. Also not
> sure about all those carrots. Seems like they'll make a sweet sauce
> and I hate sweet tomato sauce. Any comments on the recipe in general?
> Will it work basically as is or do you see something glaring that
> needs to be fixed?
>
> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Sauce-107226
>

I'd eliminate the water, switch to 1/2 carrot and substitute dry
vermouth for the white wine as that is too subjective.

And add capers. :-)
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

On 2010-03-09, sf > wrote:

> I am looking at this recipe. I plan to substitute ground turkey for
> the ground veal

> Any comments on the recipe in general?

Not at all. Looks great.

Unfortunately, subbing turkey for beef will just ruin it. IMO,
Bolognese sauce needs beef and turkey will NEVER be a viable
substitute for beef.

nb

"sf" > wrote in message
...
>
> I am looking at this recipe. I plan to substitute ground turkey for
> the ground veal (veal is not easy to find and I'm not traveling for
> it). Trader Joe's sells pancetta, so that's not an issue. Also not
> sure about all those carrots. Seems like they'll make a sweet sauce
> and I hate sweet tomato sauce. Any comments on the recipe in general?
> Will it work basically as is or do you see something glaring that
> needs to be fixed?
>
> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Sauce-107226
>
> Bolognese Sauce
> Mario Batali
>
> Gourmet | October 2002
>
> Makes about 8 cups
>
> This recipe is an accompaniment for Pappardelle Bolognese .
>
> 2 medium onions, finely chopped
> 4 celery ribs, finely chopped
> 2 medium carrots, finely chopped
> 5 garlic cloves, thinly sliced
> 1/4 cup extra-virgin olive oil
> 1/4 pound pancetta or slab bacon, ground by butcher or thinly sliced
> and pulsed in food processor until finely chopped
> 1 pound ground veal
> 1 pound ground pork (not lean)
> 1 (6-ounce) can tomato paste
> 1 cup whole milk
> 1 cup dry white wine
> 1 cup water
> 1 teaspoon fresh thyme leaves
> 1 1/4 teaspoons kosher salt
> 1/2 teaspoon black pepper
>
> Directions:
>
> Cook onions, celery, carrot, and garlic in oil in a 6- to 8-quart
> heavy pot over moderate heat, stirring occasionally, until softened,
> about 5 minutes.
>
> Add pancetta, veal, and pork and cook over moderately high heat,
> stirring and breaking up lumps, until no longer pink, about 6 minutes.
>
> Stir in tomato paste, milk, wine, water, and thyme and gently simmer,
> covered, until sauce is thickened, 1 to 1 1/2 hours. Add salt and
> pepper and remove from heat.
>
> Sauce may be made 2 days ahead and cooled, uncovered, before chilling,
> covered. Frozen, it keeps for 1 month.
The carrots will be fine. If you are worried about running into them in the
sauce, run them in the food processor. I do a recipe from Giada that has
lots of carrots and uses crushed tomatoes. The sauce doesn't seem sweet at
all. Try it.
Janet

On 2010-03-09, sf > wrote:

> I am looking at this recipe. I plan to substitute ground turkey for
> the ground veal

> Any comments on the recipe in general?

Not at all. Looks great.

Unfortunately, subbing turkey for beef will just ruin it. IMO,
Bolognese sauce needs beef and turkey will NEVER be a viable
substitute for beef.

nb

On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:31:57 -0800 (PST), aem >
wrote:

> The recipe looks to me like it'll work, though my version differs
> somewhat. I don't like ground turkey; if they sell ground dark meat
> turkey maybe that'd be better.
>
> [snip ingrediients]
> As long as the two carrots are not large I think they wouldn't be too
> sweet.
>
> > .....
> > Add pancetta, veal, and pork and cook over moderately high heat,
> > stirring and breaking up lumps, until no longer pink, about 6 minutes.
> >
> I'd cook the meats a few minutes longer than this and then drain fat
> before proceeding.
>
> > Stir in tomato paste, milk, wine, water, and thyme and gently simmer,
> > covered, until sauce is thickened, 1 to 1 1/2 hours. Add salt and
> > pepper and remove from heat.
>
> Other recipes add the milk in increments over the simmering period.
> I've never known why. I'd add "stir occasionally" to the directions.

Thanks for the tips, aem. I will add them to the recipe.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:34:11 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> On 2010-03-09, sf > wrote:
>
> > I am looking at this recipe. I plan to substitute ground turkey for
> > the ground veal
>
> > Any comments on the recipe in general?
>
> Not at all. Looks great.
>
> Unfortunately, subbing turkey for beef will just ruin it. IMO,
> Bolognese sauce needs beef and turkey will NEVER be a viable
> substitute for beef.
>
I was subbing for veal, not full blown beef. Veal is pretty bland,
just like turkey.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 11:34:56 -0700, "Janet Bostwick"
> wrote:

> The carrots will be fine. If you are worried about running into them in the
> sauce, run them in the food processor. I do a recipe from Giada that has
> lots of carrots and uses crushed tomatoes. The sauce doesn't seem sweet at
> all. Try it.

OK, I'm feeling better about the carrots now. I'll put them through
the FP too, good idea! I'll look up Giada's recipe before I take the
plunge.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 10:26:19 -0800, Mort > wrote:

> sf wrote:
>
> > Any comments on the recipe in general?
> > Will it work basically as is or do you see something glaring that
> > needs to be fixed?
> >
> > http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Sauce-107226
> >
> > Bolognese Sauce
> > Mario Batali
>
> I've made this particular recipe and it's quite good. Hey,
> it's Mario.
>
> Instead of turkey I would use chuck. If you're worried
> about fat content you could use a very lean chuck. I just
> think a bolognese should have a solid beef character to it.
>
Thanks, Mort... I'll get some chuck and grind it at home then. I
didn't think Bolognese was supposed to be beefy with just veal and
pork in the recipe.

> The carrots are ok and will add a very minor note of sweetness.
> Definitely won't be overly sweet, especially with your garden
> variety supermarket carrot.
>
I'm gun shy on the carrots because I still remember the first real
Italian home made tomato sauce I ever ate (I watched her make it) was
too sweet from a very small amount of carrot.

> Make a lot! It freezes really well.

I just have my refrigerator's freezer and it's stuffed. So, I make
enough to eat in a couple of days of leftovers for lunch and be done
with it.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Mar 9, 10:18*am, sf > wrote:
> I am looking at this recipe. *I plan to substitute ground turkey for
> the ground veal (veal is not easy to find and I'm not traveling for
> it). *Trader Joe's sells pancetta, so that's not an issue. *Also not
> sure about all those carrots. *Seems like they'll make a sweet sauce
> and I hate sweet tomato sauce. *Any comments on the recipe in general?
> Will it work basically as is or do you see something glaring that
> needs to be fixed?
>
> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Sauce-107226
>
> Bolognese Sauce
> Mario Batali
>
> Gourmet *| October 2002
>
> Makes about 8 cups
>
> This recipe is an accompaniment for Pappardelle Bolognese .
>
> 2 medium onions, finely chopped
> 4 celery ribs, finely chopped
> 2 medium carrots, finely chopped
> 5 garlic cloves, thinly sliced
> 1/4 cup extra-virgin olive oil
> 1/4 pound pancetta or slab bacon, ground by butcher or thinly sliced
> and pulsed in food processor until finely chopped
> 1 pound ground veal
> 1 pound ground pork (not lean)
> 1 (6-ounce) can tomato paste
> 1 cup whole milk
> 1 cup dry white wine
> 1 cup water
> 1 teaspoon fresh thyme leaves
> 1 1/4 teaspoons kosher salt
> 1/2 teaspoon black pepper
>
> Directions:
>
> Cook onions, celery, carrot, and garlic in oil in a 6- to 8-quart
> heavy pot over moderate heat, stirring occasionally, until softened,
> about 5 minutes.
>
> Add pancetta, veal, and pork and cook over moderately high heat,
> stirring and breaking up lumps, until no longer pink, about 6 minutes.
>
> Stir in tomato paste, milk, wine, water, and thyme and gently simmer,
> covered, until sauce is thickened, 1 to 1 1/2 hours. *Add salt and
> pepper and remove from heat.
>
> Sauce may be made 2 days ahead and cooled, uncovered, before chilling,
> covered. *Frozen, it keeps for 1 month.
>
> --
> I love cooking with wine.
> Sometimes I even put it in the food.

looks like what i do,except, i dont add the veal, milk or bacon. i
use ground chuck & ground pork.

harriet & critters

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 11:34:56 -0700, "Janet Bostwick"
> > wrote:
>
>> The carrots will be fine. If you are worried about running into them in
>> the
>> sauce, run them in the food processor. I do a recipe from Giada that has
>> lots of carrots and uses crushed tomatoes. The sauce doesn't seem sweet
>> at
>> all. Try it.
>
> OK, I'm feeling better about the carrots now. I'll put them through
> the FP too, good idea! I'll look up Giada's recipe before I take the
> plunge.
>
I do both her Simple Bolognese and her Marinara Sauce. I like both a lot,
but don't see a huge difference between her and Mario.
Janet

sf wrote:
> I am looking at this recipe. I plan to substitute ground turkey for
> the ground veal (veal is not easy to find and I'm not traveling for
> it).

At our supermarket, they sell one-pound packages of a mix of ground
beef, ground pork and ground veal, for meatloaf. I think that would
be ideal for your purpose. Recipe looks great - if I can boil it down
to "cooking for one", I've got it made!

Dora

sf wrote:

> On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 10:26:19 -0800, Mort > wrote:
>
>>The carrots are ok and will add a very minor note of sweetness.
>>Definitely won't be overly sweet, especially with your garden
>>variety supermarket carrot.
>>
>
> I'm gun shy on the carrots because I still remember the first real
> Italian home made tomato sauce I ever ate (I watched her make it) was
> too sweet from a very small amount of carrot.
>

I hear you. Too sweet is definitely not good.

One of the functions of the carrots is to balance the acidity
of the tomatoes, so, this will be somewhat variable depending
on type and brand of tomatoes.

--
Mort

I use Marcella Hazan's recipe. She uses 2T each chopped carrot, celery, and
onion to 3/4 lb ground beef, with 1 cup white wine, 1/2 cup milk, and 2 cups
canned Italian tomatoes, chopped (with the juice). And 1/8 tsp grated
nutmeg.

She sautees the veggies in EVO and butter first, Then adds the meat with
some salt and cooks until it is no longer red, then adds wine and reduces
completely, then adds milk and nutmeg and cooks until milk too has
evaporated. Then she adds the tomatoes and simmers REALLY slowly for 3 1/2 -
4 hours.

Her recipe is delicious, although I often tinker with it a bit....by adding
more tomato than she calls for, for example, or by using half and half
instead of milk. The step of cooking the meat in wine and milk first is key,
as is the nutmeg.

I really do not like tomato sauce recipes that use tomato paste instead of
tomato AT ALL. And I think that the flavor of beef--not veal or pork--is
essential to bolognese. The recipe you post sounds good in its own way,
although not bolognese. (If you substitute a larger quantity of chopped
canned tomatoes for the paste. you'd probably have to cook it longer.)

In article >,
"Dora" > wrote:
> be ideal for your purpose. Recipe looks great - if I can boil it down
> to "cooking for one", I've got it made!
>
> Dora

Make the recipe, Dora, and freeze one-cup portions for yourself.


--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller
Bean soup with sausage and kale, 3-1-2010

On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 12:40:19 -0700, "Janet Bostwick"
> wrote:

> I do both her Simple Bolognese and her Marinara Sauce. I like both a lot,
> but don't see a huge difference between her and Mario.
> Janet

I should ask you then. Do you use veal or beef?

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 11:33:03 -0800 (PST), "critters & me in azusa, ca"
> wrote:

> i use ground chuck & ground pork.

TY, Harriet! I'm sensing a trend to beef.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 15:01:00 -0500, "Dora" > wrote:

> At our supermarket, they sell one-pound packages of a mix of ground
> beef, ground pork and ground veal, for meatloaf. I think that would
> be ideal for your purpose. Recipe looks great - if I can boil it down
> to "cooking for one", I've got it made!

TY! Hubby and I have been discussing recently that we haven't seen
that mix in years. Maybe a specialty butcher has it, but not the
grocery stores anymore.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 15:19:44 -0500, "Janet" >
wrote:

> I use Marcella Hazan's recipe. She uses 2T each chopped carrot, celery, and
> onion to 3/4 lb ground beef, with 1 cup white wine, 1/2 cup milk, and 2 cups
> canned Italian tomatoes, chopped (with the juice). And 1/8 tsp grated
> nutmeg.

That sounds very doable... I'd leave out the nutmeg, of course (don't
like it even in tiny amounts) and two tablespoons of carrot can't hurt
anything.
>
> She sautees the veggies in EVO and butter first, Then adds the meat with
> some salt and cooks until it is no longer red, then adds wine and reduces
> completely, then adds milk and nutmeg and cooks until milk too has
> evaporated. Then she adds the tomatoes and simmers REALLY slowly for 3 1/2 -
> 4 hours.
>
> Her recipe is delicious, although I often tinker with it a bit....by adding
> more tomato than she calls for, for example, or by using half and half
> instead of milk. The step of cooking the meat in wine and milk first is key,
> as is the nutmeg.
>
> I really do not like tomato sauce recipes that use tomato paste instead of
> tomato AT ALL. And I think that the flavor of beef--not veal or pork--is
> essential to bolognese. The recipe you post sounds good in its own way,
> although not bolognese. (If you substitute a larger quantity of chopped
> canned tomatoes for the paste. you'd probably have to cook it longer.)
>
>
Thanks for all of the above, I will append it to my recipe and see
what transpires.



--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
>
> I am looking at this recipe. I plan to substitute ground turkey for
> the ground veal (veal is not easy to find and I'm not traveling for
> it). Trader Joe's sells pancetta, so that's not an issue. Also not
> sure about all those carrots. Seems like they'll make a sweet sauce
> and I hate sweet tomato sauce. Any comments on the recipe in general?
> Will it work basically as is or do you see something glaring that
> needs to be fixed?
>
> http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...e-Sauce-107226
>
> Bolognese Sauce
> Mario Batali
>
> Gourmet | October 2002
>
>
The following is always where I start with Sauce Bolognese. For me,
Marcella Hazan is the "Julia" of Italilan cooking, and that's always where
one should start. You may well have this recipe, but this is in case you
don't: Don't worry about the carrots. There won't be a carrot taste. The
final phase should be very very slight ebulation of the surface while
cooking, just as you saw in the movie "Godfather".

Bolognese Meat Sauce, from "Essentials of Classic Italian Cooking".
1 Tbs olive oil
1/2 C. chopped onion
2/3 C. chopped celery
2/3 C. chopped carrot
(Onion, celery, and carrot make up "sofrito". Do NOT leave any of the three
out, even if you dislike celery or carrot. It just doesn't work.)
3/4 pound ground beef chuck, or any ground meat you wish, including veal,
sausage, pork, or a mixture. Ground turkey sounds good to me. The BACON will
dominate the turkey. I'd leave it out.
1 C. whole milk
1/8 tsp. grated nutmeg
1 C. dry white wine
1 1/2 C canned Italian plum tomatoes, cut in with their juice

1. Put oil in a pot with chopped onion, celery and carrots.. Turn heat on to
medium. Cook until soft and onion is translucent.
2. Add ground meat, a large pinch of salt, and a few grindings of pepper.
Break up the meat and stir well, cooking until the beef has lost its raw,
red color. Don't overcook the meat.
3. Add the milk and let simmer gently, stirring frequently, until it has
bubbled away completely. Yes, completely.. Add 1/8 tsp of grated nutmeg and
stir.
4. Add the wine, yes white wine, and let simmer until it has evaporated.
5. Add tomatoes and stir thoroughly to coat all ingredients. When the
tomatoes begin to bubble, turn heat down so that the sauce cooks at the
laziest simmer with ocassional bubbles breaking. Cook uncovered for 3 hours
or more, stirring from time to time. If the sauce begins to dry out and the
fat separates from the meat, add 1/2 C of water to keep it from sticking to
the pot. At the end, however, no water should remain and the fat must be
separate from the sauce. Taste and correct for salt.

Cheers,

Kent

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> Make the recipe, Dora, and freeze one-cup portions for yourself.

Well, I have just a refrigerator/freezer in this apartment, with very
limited freezer space. I could share the sauce with a neighbor -
she'd be happy.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 12:40:19 -0700, "Janet Bostwick"
> > wrote:
>
>> I do both her Simple Bolognese and her Marinara Sauce. I like both a
>> lot,
>> but don't see a huge difference between her and Mario.
>> Janet
>
> I should ask you then. Do you use veal or beef?
>
Giada's recipe uses beef. But if I could find veal within a 1000 miles of
here, I'd try it.
Janet

"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Dora" > wrote:
>> be ideal for your purpose. Recipe looks great - if I can boil it down
>> to "cooking for one", I've got it made!
>>
>> Dora
>
> Make the recipe, Dora, and freeze one-cup portions for yourself.

Make that two cups, Dora. Barb is being stingy.

Felice

On 2010-03-09, Mort > wrote:

> One of the functions of the carrots is to balance the acidity
> of the tomatoes, so, this will be somewhat variable depending
> on type and brand of tomatoes.

Yep. Cook them carrots to death so they liquify.

nb

On 2010-03-09, sf > wrote:

> TY, Harriet! I'm sensing a trend to beef.

ITYS!

nb

In article >,
"Felice" > wrote:

> "Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
> > Make the recipe, Dora, and freeze one-cup portions for yourself.
>
> Make that two cups, Dora. Barb is being stingy.
>
> Felice


<g> You sound like Rob; I like the pasta, he likes sauce.

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller
Bean soup with sausage and kale, 3-1-2010

In article >,
"Dora" > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> >
> > Make the recipe, Dora, and freeze one-cup portions for yourself.
>
> Well, I have just a refrigerator/freezer in this apartment, with very
> limited freezer space. I could share the sauce with a neighbor -
> she'd be happy.


Good plan. Invite her for dinner.

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller
Bean soup with sausage and kale, 3-1-2010

Kent wrote:

> The following is always where I start with Sauce Bolognese. For me,
> Marcella Hazan is the "Julia" of Italilan cooking, and that's always
> where one should start. You may well have this recipe, but this is in
> case you don't: Don't worry about the carrots. There won't be a
> carrot taste. The final phase should be very very slight ebulation of
> the surface while cooking, just as you saw in the movie "Godfather".
>
> Bolognese Meat Sauce, from "Essentials of Classic Italian Cooking".
> 1 Tbs olive oil
> 1/2 C. chopped onion
> 2/3 C. chopped celery
> 2/3 C. chopped carrot
> (Onion, celery, and carrot make up "sofrito". Do NOT leave any of the
> three out, even if you dislike celery or carrot. It just doesn't
> work.) 3/4 pound ground beef chuck, or any ground meat you wish,
> including veal, sausage, pork, or a mixture. Ground turkey sounds
> good to me. The BACON will dominate the turkey. I'd leave it out.
> 1 C. whole milk
> 1/8 tsp. grated nutmeg
> 1 C. dry white wine
> 1 1/2 C canned Italian plum tomatoes, cut in with their juice
>
> 1. Put oil in a pot with chopped onion, celery and carrots.. Turn
> heat on to medium. Cook until soft and onion is translucent.
> 2. Add ground meat, a large pinch of salt, and a few grindings of
> pepper. Break up the meat and stir well, cooking until the beef has
> lost its raw, red color. Don't overcook the meat.
> 3. Add the milk and let simmer gently, stirring frequently, until it
> has bubbled away completely. Yes, completely.. Add 1/8 tsp of grated
> nutmeg and stir.
> 4. Add the wine, yes white wine, and let simmer until it has
> evaporated. 5. Add tomatoes and stir thoroughly to coat all ingredients.
> When the
> tomatoes begin to bubble, turn heat down so that the sauce cooks at
> the laziest simmer with ocassional bubbles breaking. Cook uncovered
> for 3 hours or more, stirring from time to time. If the sauce begins
> to dry out and the fat separates from the meat, add 1/2 C of water to
> keep it from sticking to the pot. At the end, however, no water
> should remain and the fat must be separate from the sauce. Taste and
> correct for salt.
> Cheers,
>
> Kent

This is interesting, because it is exactly the same method as that in The
Classic Italian Cook Book, but the amount of soffrito is MUCH larger.

On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 12:43:34 -0800, "Kent" > wrote:

> Bolognese Meat Sauce, from "Essentials of Classic Italian Cooking".
> 1 Tbs olive oil
> 1/2 C. chopped onion
> 2/3 C. chopped celery
> 2/3 C. chopped carrot
> (Onion, celery, and carrot make up "sofrito". Do NOT leave any of the three
> out, even if you dislike celery or carrot. It just doesn't work.)
> 3/4 pound ground beef chuck, or any ground meat you wish, including veal,
> sausage, pork, or a mixture. Ground turkey sounds good to me. The BACON will
> dominate the turkey. I'd leave it out.
> 1 C. whole milk
> 1/8 tsp. grated nutmeg
> 1 C. dry white wine
> 1 1/2 C canned Italian plum tomatoes, cut in with their juice
>
> 1. Put oil in a pot with chopped onion, celery and carrots.. Turn heat on to
> medium. Cook until soft and onion is translucent.
> 2. Add ground meat, a large pinch of salt, and a few grindings of pepper.
> Break up the meat and stir well, cooking until the beef has lost its raw,
> red color. Don't overcook the meat.
> 3. Add the milk and let simmer gently, stirring frequently, until it has
> bubbled away completely. Yes, completely.. Add 1/8 tsp of grated nutmeg and
> stir.
> 4. Add the wine, yes white wine, and let simmer until it has evaporated.
> 5. Add tomatoes and stir thoroughly to coat all ingredients. When the
> tomatoes begin to bubble, turn heat down so that the sauce cooks at the
> laziest simmer with ocassional bubbles breaking. Cook uncovered for 3 hours
> or more, stirring from time to time. If the sauce begins to dry out and the
> fat separates from the meat, add 1/2 C of water to keep it from sticking to
> the pot. At the end, however, no water should remain and the fat must be
> separate from the sauce. Taste and correct for salt.

Thanks, Kent! I'll add that to my Bolognese recipe file. I always
thought Bolognese had a mixture of veal and pork, not beef and pork.
I wonder if the beef part is an adaptation for American tastes?


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Janet" > wrote in message
...
> Kent wrote:
>
>> The following is always where I start with Sauce Bolognese. For me,
>> Marcella Hazan is the "Julia" of Italilan cooking, and that's always
>> where one should start. You may well have this recipe, but this is in
>> case you don't: Don't worry about the carrots. There won't be a
>> carrot taste. The final phase should be very very slight ebulation of
>> the surface while cooking, just as you saw in the movie "Godfather".
>>
>> Bolognese Meat Sauce, from "Essentials of Classic Italian Cooking".
>> 1 Tbs olive oil
>> 1/2 C. chopped onion
>> 2/3 C. chopped celery
>> 2/3 C. chopped carrot
>> (Onion, celery, and carrot make up "sofrito". Do NOT leave any of the
>> three out, even if you dislike celery or carrot. It just doesn't
>> work.) 3/4 pound ground beef chuck, or any ground meat you wish,
>> including veal, sausage, pork, or a mixture. Ground turkey sounds
>> good to me. The BACON will dominate the turkey. I'd leave it out.
>> 1 C. whole milk
>> 1/8 tsp. grated nutmeg
>> 1 C. dry white wine
>> 1 1/2 C canned Italian plum tomatoes, cut in with their juice
>>
>> 1. Put oil in a pot with chopped onion, celery and carrots.. Turn
>> heat on to medium. Cook until soft and onion is translucent.
>> 2. Add ground meat, a large pinch of salt, and a few grindings of
>> pepper. Break up the meat and stir well, cooking until the beef has
>> lost its raw, red color. Don't overcook the meat.
>> 3. Add the milk and let simmer gently, stirring frequently, until it
>> has bubbled away completely. Yes, completely.. Add 1/8 tsp of grated
>> nutmeg and stir.
>> 4. Add the wine, yes white wine, and let simmer until it has
>> evaporated. 5. Add tomatoes and stir thoroughly to coat all ingredients.
>> When the
>> tomatoes begin to bubble, turn heat down so that the sauce cooks at
>> the laziest simmer with ocassional bubbles breaking. Cook uncovered
>> for 3 hours or more, stirring from time to time. If the sauce begins
>> to dry out and the fat separates from the meat, add 1/2 C of water to
>> keep it from sticking to the pot. At the end, however, no water
>> should remain and the fat must be separate from the sauce. Taste and
>> correct for salt.
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Kent
>
> This is interesting, because it is exactly the same method as that in The
> Classic Italian Cook Book, but the amount of soffrito is MUCH larger.
>
That's very interesting. I have four of her books, including the two in
question. In the "Classic Italian....." copyrighted in 1973, her recipe
included 2TB each of onions, celery, and carrot, along with milk and wine,
cooked down and added to 2 cups tomatoes. In the "Essentials of Classic
Italian.....", copyrighted in 1992, her sofrito[onion, celery,carrot]
ingredients were 2/3, 1/2, and 1/2cups each, along withi milk and wine, and
with 1 1/2 cups tomatoes. That's a striking difference. I've always used the
latter recipe with the higher dose of sofrito and I've been happy. I can't
imagine using less. Both recipes call for beef. I've experimented with all
ground meat. I think bolognese sauce is fairly delicate, and veal, along
with other ground meat, or veal by itself, is excellent. I think SF's
thoughts about using ground turkey is a great idea, and I'm going to try it.
Thanks for the "headsup". This is what NGs are all about!

Kent

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 12:43:34 -0800, "Kent" > wrote:
>
>> Bolognese Meat Sauce, from "Essentials of Classic Italian Cooking".
>> 1 Tbs olive oil
>> 1/2 C. chopped onion
>> 2/3 C. chopped celery
>> 2/3 C. chopped carrot
>> (Onion, celery, and carrot make up "sofrito". Do NOT leave any of the
>> three
>> out, even if you dislike celery or carrot. It just doesn't work.)
>> 3/4 pound ground beef chuck, or any ground meat you wish, including veal,
>> sausage, pork, or a mixture. Ground turkey sounds good to me. The BACON
>> will
>> dominate the turkey. I'd leave it out.
>> 1 C. whole milk
>> 1/8 tsp. grated nutmeg
>> 1 C. dry white wine
>> 1 1/2 C canned Italian plum tomatoes, cut in with their juice
>>
>> 1. Put oil in a pot with chopped onion, celery and carrots.. Turn heat on
>> to
>> medium. Cook until soft and onion is translucent.
>> 2. Add ground meat, a large pinch of salt, and a few grindings of pepper.
>> Break up the meat and stir well, cooking until the beef has lost its raw,
>> red color. Don't overcook the meat.
>> 3. Add the milk and let simmer gently, stirring frequently, until it has
>> bubbled away completely. Yes, completely.. Add 1/8 tsp of grated nutmeg
>> and
>> stir.
>> 4. Add the wine, yes white wine, and let simmer until it has evaporated.
>> 5. Add tomatoes and stir thoroughly to coat all ingredients. When the
>> tomatoes begin to bubble, turn heat down so that the sauce cooks at the
>> laziest simmer with ocassional bubbles breaking. Cook uncovered for 3
>> hours
>> or more, stirring from time to time. If the sauce begins to dry out and
>> the
>> fat separates from the meat, add 1/2 C of water to keep it from sticking
>> to
>> the pot. At the end, however, no water should remain and the fat must be
>> separate from the sauce. Taste and correct for salt.
>
> Thanks, Kent! I'll add that to my Bolognese recipe file. I always
> thought Bolognese had a mixture of veal and pork, not beef and pork.
> I wonder if the beef part is an adaptation for American tastes?
>
>
sf, see my note to Janet above. Marcella Hazan's recipes both contain ground
beef. I don't think they were adapted for this country. I've always
substituted different ground meats on my own. I just looked at Ada Boni's
"Regional Italian Cooking"[published in 1969]. Her recipe for bolognese
includes, ground beef, pork, sausage, and chicken livers, all together!!!! I
guess anything goes.

Cheers,

Kent

On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 21:07:46 -0800, "Kent" > wrote:

> I just looked at Ada Boni's
> "Regional Italian Cooking"[published in 1969]. Her recipe for bolognese
> includes, ground beef, pork, sausage, and chicken livers, all together!!!! I
> guess anything goes.

<laugh> Sounds like it, Kent! At this point, I'm thinking about
using "Italian sausage" instead of plain ground pork. If I like it,
it goes in. I have mushrooms, maybe I should throw them in too.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 20:50:39 -0800, "Kent" > wrote:

> That's very interesting. I have four of her books, including the two in
> question. In the "Classic Italian....." copyrighted in 1973, her recipe
> included 2TB each of onions, celery, and carrot, along with milk and wine,
> cooked down and added to 2 cups tomatoes. In the "Essentials of Classic
> Italian.....", copyrighted in 1992, her sofrito[onion, celery,carrot]
> ingredients were 2/3, 1/2, and 1/2cups each, along withi milk and wine, and
> with 1 1/2 cups tomatoes. That's a striking difference. I've always used the
> latter recipe with the higher dose of sofrito and I've been happy. I can't
> imagine using less. Both recipes call for beef. I've experimented with all
> ground meat. I think bolognese sauce is fairly delicate, and veal, along
> with other ground meat, or veal by itself, is excellent. I think SF's
> thoughts about using ground turkey is a great idea, and I'm going to try it.
> Thanks for the "headsup". This is what NGs are all about!

Thanks for backing up my initial idea, Kent. Not having made
bolognese before, I can't focus on the sofrito mix in total... it's
just the carrot part - because I know how sweet carrots can make a
tomato based sauce. I thought turkey was a more logical substitution
for veal than beef. I'm saying this from the viewpoint of someone who
eats turkey only at Thanksgiving and buys ground turkey once or twice
a year at the most (mainly never), not because I'm biased toward
turkey. As a ground meat, I think it's as bland as veal and also
emphasizes the other seasonings used in the recipe.



--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"sf" ha scritto nel messaggio

> I am looking at this recipe. I plan to substitute ground turkey for> the
> ground veal (veal is not easy to find and I'm not traveling for> it).
> Trader Joe's sells pancetta, so that's not an issue. Also not> sure about
> all those carrots. Seems like they'll make a sweet sauce
> and I hate sweet tomato sauce. Any comments on the recipe in general?>
> Will it work basically as is or do you see something glaring that> needs
> to be fixed?

Of course it is going to be a meat sauce when it is done just as written,
but I personally wouyldn't make it because I think it would taste flat to
me.

It IS a lot of sofritto, but it is proportioned correctly, one third each
vegetable. Maybe what you think of as sweet is my flat?
It's the tomato paste that bothers me the most. I can buy a tube of that in
my store, but they do not even sell tins of it. I am not a fan of tomato
paste except in small amounts. Artusi says to add a small amount of tomato
concentrate towards the end of cooking ragù. Bolognese is one form of ragù.
I personally like to add canned or pureed tomatoes after first the wine has
been absorbed and then the milk has been absorbed. I never heard of adding
all the liquids at once like that.

This is not a hopeless mess, but to me it just isn't good enough.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 21:07:46 -0800, "Kent" > wrote:
>
>> I just looked at Ada Boni's
>> "Regional Italian Cooking"[published in 1969]. Her recipe for bolognese
>> includes, ground beef, pork, sausage, and chicken livers, all
>> together!!!! I
>> guess anything goes.
>
> <laugh> Sounds like it, Kent! At this point, I'm thinking about
> using "Italian sausage" instead of plain ground pork. If I like it,
> it goes in. I have mushrooms, maybe I should throw them in too.
>
>
If you're going to add mushrooms, I'd add ground sauteed mushrooms with the
consistency of a duxelles to go with the ground meat. I've thought of
making a bolognese sauce with reconstituted dried porcinis, with or without
ground fresh mushrooms. That would change the dish, with the assertiveness
of the dried porcinis. I wish the Mrs. liked the dried porcinis. I love
them. We both like fresh porcinis, but at $24.50/lb, if you can find them!

BTW, fresh morels are about to come into season. The Berkeley Bowl and
Monterey Market both get them.

Kent

Giusi wrote:
> "sf" ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>> I am looking at this recipe. I plan to substitute ground turkey
>> for> the ground veal (veal is not easy to find and I'm not traveling
>> for> it). Trader Joe's sells pancetta, so that's not an issue. Also
>> not> sure about all those carrots. Seems like they'll make a sweet
>> sauce and I hate sweet tomato sauce. Any comments on the recipe in
>> general?> Will it work basically as is or do you see something
>> glaring that> needs to be fixed?
>
> Of course it is going to be a meat sauce when it is done just as
> written, but I personally wouyldn't make it because I think it would
> taste flat to me.
>
> It IS a lot of sofritto, but it is proportioned correctly, one third
> each vegetable. Maybe what you think of as sweet is my flat?
> It's the tomato paste that bothers me the most. I can buy a tube of
> that in my store, but they do not even sell tins of it. I am not a
> fan of tomato paste except in small amounts. Artusi says to add a
> small amount of tomato concentrate towards the end of cooking ragù.
> Bolognese is one form of ragù. I personally like to add canned or
> pureed tomatoes after first the wine has been absorbed and then the
> milk has been absorbed. I never heard of adding all the liquids at
> once like that.
> This is not a hopeless mess, but to me it just isn't good enough.

Sounds like you agree with Marcella Hazan. <G>

On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 02:53:10 -0800, "Kent" > wrote:

> BTW, fresh morels are about to come into season. The Berkeley Bowl and
> Monterey Market both get them.

Please post when they arrive. I was hoping to find them when I was
over there, but they weren't in season yet.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:23:30 +0100, "Giusi" >
wrote:

> It IS a lot of sofritto, but it is proportioned correctly, one third each
> vegetable. Maybe what you think of as sweet is my flat?

What amount would you cut the sofrito back to?

> It's the tomato paste that bothers me the most. I can buy a tube of that in
> my store, but they do not even sell tins of it. I am not a fan of tomato
> paste except in small amounts. Artusi says to add a small amount of tomato
> concentrate towards the end of cooking ragù. Bolognese is one form of ragù.
> I personally like to add canned or pureed tomatoes after first the wine has
> been absorbed and then the milk has been absorbed. I never heard of adding
> all the liquids at once like that.
>
> This is not a hopeless mess, but to me it just isn't good enough.

Ok, first wine, reduce the liquid; then milk, reduce again and then
add pureed tomatoes? I imagine he called for paste because the
liquid wasn't properly reduced and paste will thicken it. Just thyme
and garlic, no other seasonings besides salt and pepper?

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.