On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 13:05:47 -0800, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

> I saw bottles of white so-called "balsamic" vinegar
> at Trader Joe's. It does say on the bottle that
> it is not aged in wood barrels. That leads me
> to ask in what sense is it balsamic vinegar?
>
> I didn't buy any, so I don't have an opinion on
> the taste.

I don't think I'll bother with white balsamic unless I see raves here
first. I do like white wine vinegar, so there's a good chance I'll
like it.

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

Mark Thorson wrote:

> I saw bottles of white so-called "balsamic" vinegar
> at Trader Joe's. It does say on the bottle that
> it is not aged in wood barrels. That leads me
> to ask in what sense is it balsamic vinegar?
>
> I didn't buy any, so I don't have an opinion on
> the taste.

We use it a lot. It's got a very pleasing taste. We have several
varieties of balsamic vinegar from top-of-the-line to average, but the
white is my go-to in cooking and salad dressings.

According to the label, it says "Trader Joe's White Balsamic Vinegar is
made using the same traditional methods used to produce conventional
Balsamic Vinegar. Two differences in the process result in a similar
vinegar of a different color; it isn't aged in wooden barrels, and the
dark color is filtered out, leaving a crystal clear tint and distinctive
taste of Trader Joe's White Balsamic Vinegar."

Comparing it to their regular Balsamic, it's half the calories (5) but
the same amount of carbs (2) per tablespoon.

--Lin

Mark Thorson wrote:

> That's like a knife which has lost both its blade
> and its handle.

LOL! Yeah, I thought the double-speak was pretty good.

>> Comparing it to their regular Balsamic, it's half the calories (5) but
>> the same amount of carbs (2) per tablespoon.
>
> Huh? All of the calories in vinegar are carbs,
> either sugar or acetic acid. There's no significant
> amount of protein or fat in vinegar, so what's left?

Just comparing the two labels of the same brand. I did notice that the
dark vinegar had caramel added (for coloring it claimed).

*TJ's "regular" Balsamic Vinegar (in a jug)*
INGREDIENTS: Wine vinegar, concentrated grape must, caramel (color).
Contains natural sulfites.

*TJ'S "White" Balsamic Vinegar (tall, thin bottle)*
INGREDIENTS: White wine vinegar (contains sulfites) concentrated grape must.

Yes, the 2g carbs are sugars.

*TJ's Gold Quality Balsamic Vinegar (premium aged, in small bottle)*
INGREDIENTS: Wine vinegar, cooked grape must. Contains sulfites.
This one has 20 calories per tablespoon and 5g carbs, all sugars.

--Lin

I saw bottles of white so-called "balsamic" vinegar
at Trader Joe's. It does say on the bottle that
it is not aged in wood barrels. That leads me
to ask in what sense is it balsamic vinegar?

I didn't buy any, so I don't have an opinion on
the taste.

Lin wrote:
>
> According to the label, it says "Trader Joe's White Balsamic Vinegar is
> made using the same traditional methods used to produce conventional
> Balsamic Vinegar. Two differences in the process result in a similar
> vinegar of a different color; it isn't aged in wooden barrels, and the
> dark color is filtered out, leaving a crystal clear tint and distinctive
> taste of Trader Joe's White Balsamic Vinegar."

That's like a knife which has lost both its blade
and its handle.

> Comparing it to their regular Balsamic, it's half the calories (5) but
> the same amount of carbs (2) per tablespoon.

Huh? All of the calories in vinegar are carbs,
either sugar or acetic acid. There's no significant
amount of protein or fat in vinegar, so what's left?

"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
> I saw bottles of white so-called "balsamic" vinegar
> at Trader Joe's. It does say on the bottle that
> it is not aged in wood barrels. That leads me
> to ask in what sense is it balsamic vinegar?

It is imported from the island of Balsama. They have a big vinegar factory
there.

"Lin" > wrote
>
> *TJ's "regular" Balsamic Vinegar (in a jug)*
> INGREDIENTS: Wine vinegar, concentrated grape must, caramel (color).
> Contains natural sulfites.
>
> *TJ'S "White" Balsamic Vinegar (tall, thin bottle)*
> INGREDIENTS: White wine vinegar (contains sulfites) concentrated grape
> must.

> *TJ's Gold Quality Balsamic Vinegar (premium aged, in small bottle)*
> INGREDIENTS: Wine vinegar, cooked grape must. Contains sulfites.

> --Lin

Right there, both are fakes. Real Balsamic vinegar is made from grape
pressings that have never fermented into wine. At best, it may be Trebbiano
grape wine vinegar, but they are marketing the stuff to unsuspecting people
that think they are getting something that does not even exist. The real
deal contains no caramel coloring either. Just a fraud to mark up the price
using the word "balsamic"

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> Right there, both are fakes. Real Balsamic vinegar is made from grape
> pressings that have never fermented into wine. At best, it may be
> Trebbiano grape wine vinegar, but they are marketing the stuff to
> unsuspecting people that think they are getting something that does not
> even exist. The real deal contains no caramel coloring either. Just a
> fraud to mark up the price using the word "balsamic"

I'm sure Bob has plenty of the "real" in the cupboard. He's got some
realllllly old stuff for special occasions and recipes. A couple drops
'ill do ya. I was just pointing out what TJ's has out. Product of
Modena, Italy in any case. And I like it fine for "everyday" use. Tastes
okay to me, "fake" or not.

--Lin

In article >,
Lin > wrote:

> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> > Right there, both are fakes. Real Balsamic vinegar is made from grape
> > pressings that have never fermented into wine. At best, it may be
> > Trebbiano grape wine vinegar, but they are marketing the stuff to
> > unsuspecting people that think they are getting something that does not
> > even exist. The real deal contains no caramel coloring either. Just a
> > fraud to mark up the price using the word "balsamic"
>
> I'm sure Bob has plenty of the "real" in the cupboard. He's got some
> realllllly old stuff for special occasions and recipes. A couple drops
> 'ill do ya. I was just pointing out what TJ's has out. Product of
> Modena, Italy in any case. And I like it fine for "everyday" use. Tastes
> okay to me, "fake" or not.
>
> --Lin

Lin, ever tried combining Balsamic vinegar with soy sauce?
It is so very, very good. About 50/50. Kinda sweet and sour.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

Omelet wrote:

> Lin, ever tried combining Balsamic vinegar with soy sauce?
> It is so very, very good. About 50/50. Kinda sweet and sour.

I can't say that I have. I'll give it a try sometime!

--Lin

Ed wrote:

> Real Balsamic vinegar is made from grape pressings that have never
> fermented into wine.

99% (and probably at least a couple nines after the decimal point) of what
is sold as balsamic vinegar is actually "de Modena," which is to say they
are made of wine vinegar which has been treated to (shabbily) imitate real
balsamic vinegar. It's a HUGE corruption of the system which takes advantage
of ignorant shoppers.

Genuine balsamic vinegar is a rare and precious commodity. I have two
bottles of the stuff; one is 50-year-old balsamico tradizionale (with the
consortium's seal of approval), the other is a 25-year-old vinegar which was
aged exclusively in cherrywood casks. (As traditional balsamic vinegar ages
and reduces in volume, it's moved to smaller and smaller casks. Most of the
time, each cask is made of a different type of wood. I don't remember the
exact woods used -- it's in a book I have at home -- but I do remember that
mulberry wood was the final one.)

Bob

In article >,
Lin > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
>
> > Lin, ever tried combining Balsamic vinegar with soy sauce?
> > It is so very, very good. About 50/50. Kinda sweet and sour.
>
> I can't say that I have. I'll give it a try sometime!
>
> --Lin

Cheers! :-)
I don't know if you saw my sauce recipe I've been using lately for my
spring rolls (made with rice/tapioca wrappers). Rough proportions a

4 tbs. Balsamic Vinegar
4 tbs. Soy Sauce
2 tbs. yellow mustard
1 tbs. Oyster sauce
Light drizzle of dark sesame oil (roughly 1 tsp.)

It are really really good shtuff! ;-d

I keep my spring rolls light. Main filling is romaine or sprouts with a
little meat. I've also been playing with strips of canned green chilis
lately. No pasta, no rice. Maybe some egg, but rarely.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

Omelet wrote:

> I don't know if you saw my sauce recipe I've been using lately for my
> spring rolls (made with rice/tapioca wrappers). Rough proportions a
>
> 4 tbs. Balsamic Vinegar
> 4 tbs. Soy Sauce
> 2 tbs. yellow mustard
> 1 tbs. Oyster sauce
> Light drizzle of dark sesame oil (roughly 1 tsp.)
>
> It are really really good shtuff! ;-d
>
> I keep my spring rolls light. Main filling is romaine or sprouts with a
> little meat. I've also been playing with strips of canned green chilis
> lately. No pasta, no rice. Maybe some egg, but rarely.

I read off and on. A little bit more the last few days but most of the
time I see the sheer bulk of posts and mark them as read.

Your recipe looks great! Out here "spring" rolls are deep fried, whereas
"summer" rolls are in the rice paper wrappers. We have an excellent
Vietnamese restaurant close by that does Summer rolls to die for with a
special peanut sauce. However, on their menu they refer to summer rolls
as just "rolls" ... Spring are classic deep fried and they have "spring"
in the menu name.

Bob has made me summer rolls before that were excellent. Now I'm craving
them!

--Lin (should head off to bed now)

In article >,
Lin > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
>
> > I don't know if you saw my sauce recipe I've been using lately for my
> > spring rolls (made with rice/tapioca wrappers). Rough proportions a
> >
> > 4 tbs. Balsamic Vinegar
> > 4 tbs. Soy Sauce
> > 2 tbs. yellow mustard
> > 1 tbs. Oyster sauce
> > Light drizzle of dark sesame oil (roughly 1 tsp.)
> >
> > It are really really good shtuff! ;-d
> >
> > I keep my spring rolls light. Main filling is romaine or sprouts with a
> > little meat. I've also been playing with strips of canned green chilis
> > lately. No pasta, no rice. Maybe some egg, but rarely.
>
> I read off and on. A little bit more the last few days but most of the
> time I see the sheer bulk of posts and mark them as read.

I have to do that too sometimes!

>
> Your recipe looks great!

Thanks. :-)
That's a huge compliment coming from you!

> Out here "spring" rolls are deep fried, whereas
> "summer" rolls are in the rice paper wrappers. We have an excellent
> Vietnamese restaurant close by that does Summer rolls to die for with a
> special peanut sauce. However, on their menu they refer to summer rolls
> as just "rolls" ... Spring are classic deep fried and they have "spring"
> in the menu name.

There seems to be some confusion sometimes in terms. :-) These are
called "spring rolls" at the local Sushi places. That's why I just
describe them anymore as the cold ones with the rice wrappers.

>
> Bob has made me summer rolls before that were excellent. Now I'm craving
> them!
>
> --Lin (should head off to bed now)

Heh! Me too.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
...
> Ed wrote:
>
>> Real Balsamic vinegar is made from grape pressings that have never
>> fermented into wine.
>
> 99% (and probably at least a couple nines after the decimal point) of what
> is sold as balsamic vinegar is actually "de Modena," which is to say they
> are made of wine vinegar which has been treated to (shabbily) imitate real
> balsamic vinegar. It's a HUGE corruption of the system which takes
> advantage of ignorant shoppers.
>
> Genuine balsamic vinegar is a rare and precious commodity. I have two
> bottles of the stuff; one is 50-year-old balsamico tradizionale (with the
> consortium's seal of approval), the other is a 25-year-old vinegar which
> was aged exclusively in cherrywood casks.

I have a bottle of the 50 year old. I was in a store in Providence on
Friday and they had some 75 year old that was selling for $250.

The "balsamic" name has been *******ized and overused both in the US and in
Modena for the sake of money that it has become meaningless. Thee are some
vinegars that are young and have a similar background that carry the
"balsamic" name and are actually pretty good for what they are. But don't
ship me a Fiat with a Lamborghini emblem on it and expect me to pay a
premium for it.

One of the delights we discovered here in France were Nems, mini Spring
rolls that you eat wrapped in lettuce leaves with a few mint leaves.
Never saw these in the UK

The idea of soy and Balsamic as a dipping sauce appeals

Steve

On 28/03/2010 09:34, Lin wrote:

>
> Bob has made me summer rolls before that were excellent. Now I'm craving
> them!
>
> --Lin (should head off to bed now)

In article >,
Steve Y > wrote:

> One of the delights we discovered here in France were Nems, mini Spring
> rolls that you eat wrapped in lettuce leaves with a few mint leaves.
> Never saw these in the UK
>
> The idea of soy and Balsamic as a dipping sauce appeals
>
> Steve
>

It truly is complimentary. :-)
Surprisingly so. I discovered the combo when I was looking to create a
salad dressing that was rich in flavor, yet fat free and relatively low
carb. Granted, vinegar is not carb free (and neither is soy sauce) but
it's so rich in flavor, you can use a very, very small amount. Adding
mustard to it as a thickener also worked out well.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

Mark Thorson wrote:
> I saw bottles of white so-called "balsamic" vinegar
> at Trader Joe's. It does say on the bottle that
> it is not aged in wood barrels. That leads me
> to ask in what sense is it balsamic vinegar?
>
> I didn't buy any, so I don't have an opinion on
> the taste.


Not balsamic white, but I really like
Trader Joe's Orange Muscat Champagne Vinegar.

gloria p

Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> Ed wrote:
>
>> Real Balsamic vinegar is made from grape pressings that have never
>> fermented into wine.
>
> 99% (and probably at least a couple nines after the decimal point) of
> what is sold as balsamic vinegar is actually "de Modena," which is to
> say they are made of wine vinegar which has been treated to (shabbily)
> imitate real balsamic vinegar. It's a HUGE corruption of the system
> which takes advantage of ignorant shoppers.
>
> Genuine balsamic vinegar is a rare and precious commodity. I have two
> bottles of the stuff; one is 50-year-old balsamico tradizionale (with
> the consortium's seal of approval), the other is a 25-year-old vinegar
> which was aged exclusively in cherrywood casks. (As traditional balsamic
> vinegar ages and reduces in volume, it's moved to smaller and smaller
> casks. Most of the time, each cask is made of a different type of wood.
> I don't remember the exact woods used -- it's in a book I have at home
> -- but I do remember that mulberry wood was the final one.)
>
> Bob


Really? I always assumed "balsamic" was aged in some kind of
coniferous wood to get that piney flavor.

gloria p

"gloria.p" > wrote
>> Genuine balsamic vinegar is a rare and precious commodity. I have two
>> bottles of the stuff; one is 50-year-old balsamico tradizionale (with the
>> consortium's seal of approval), the other is a 25-year-old vinegar which
>> was aged exclusively in cherrywood casks. (As traditional balsamic
>> vinegar ages and reduces in volume, it's moved to smaller and smaller
>> casks. Most of the time, each cask is made of a different type of wood. I
>> don't remember the exact woods used -- it's in a book I have at home --
>> but I do remember that mulberry wood was the final one.)
>>
>> Bob
>
>
> Really? I always assumed "balsamic" was aged in some kind of
> coniferous wood to get that piney flavor.
>
> gloria p

That could be Christmas Vinegar.

From Wikipedia:
True balsamic vinegar is made from a reduction of pressed Trebbiano and
Lambrusco grapes. The resulting thick syrup, called mosto cotto in Italian,
is subsequently aged for a minimum of 12 years in a battery of seven barrels
of successively smaller sizes. The casks are made of different woods like
chestnut, acacia, cherry, oak, mulberry, ash, and, in the past, juniper.
True balsamic vinegar is rich, glossy, deep brown in color and has a complex
flavour that balances the natural sweet and sour elements of the cooked
grape juice with hints of wood from the casks.

"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
>I saw bottles of white so-called "balsamic" vinegar
> at Trader Joe's. It does say on the bottle that
> it is not aged in wood barrels. That leads me
> to ask in what sense is it balsamic vinegar?
>
> I didn't buy any, so I don't have an opinion on
> the taste.



I use it quite often it's very similar to white wine vinegar - Good stuff.


--
Dimitri

Soon

http://kitchenguide.wordpress.com.

Bob Terwilliger wrote:

> 99% (and probably at least a couple nines after the decimal point) of
> what is sold as balsamic vinegar is actually "de Modena," which is to
> say they are made of wine vinegar which has been treated to
> (shabbily) imitate real balsamic vinegar. It's a HUGE corruption of
> the system which takes advantage of ignorant shoppers.

Exactly. In Modena The real deal is "aceto balsamico tradizionale di Modena"
and in Reggio Emilia it is "aceto balsamico tradizionale di reggio emilia".
Then there is the cheap version, made with caramel and thickeners: in Modena
it's "aceto balsamico", in Reggio Emilia it is "condimento balsamico". In
Reggio Emilia we use the word "condiment" just to avoid confusing shoppers.
In Modena they mark it all as "aceto balsamico" and that's really lame.
--
Vilco
Don't think pink: drink rosè

ViLco wrote on Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:13:32 +0200:

>> 99% (and probably at least a couple nines after the decimal
>> point) of what is sold as balsamic vinegar is actually "de
>> Modena," which is to say they are made of wine vinegar which has been
>> treated to (shabbily) imitate real balsamic vinegar.
>> It's a HUGE corruption of the system which takes advantage of
>> ignorant shoppers.

>quoting
Exactly. In Modena The real deal is "aceto balsamico tradizionale di
Modena"
and in Reggio Emilia it is "aceto balsamico tradizionale di reggio
emilia".
Then there is the cheap version, made with caramel and thickeners: in
Modena
it's "aceto balsamico", in Reggio Emilia it is "condimento balsamico".
In
Reggio Emilia we use the word "condiment" just to avoid confusing
shoppers.
In Modena they mark it all as "aceto balsamico" and that's really lame.
> end quote

The Washington Post is much exercised about "fake" imported foods this
morning. I wonder if anyone can recommend *real* balsamic vinegar that
can be bought in the US? I also wonder how much, say 250cc, should cost?

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"James Silverton" > wrote
>>quoting
> Exactly. In Modena The real deal is "aceto balsamico tradizionale di
> Modena"
> and in Reggio Emilia it is "aceto balsamico tradizionale di reggio
> emilia".
> Then there is the cheap version, made with caramel and thickeners: in
> Modena
> it's "aceto balsamico", in Reggio Emilia it is "condimento balsamico". In
> Reggio Emilia we use the word "condiment" just to avoid confusing
> shoppers.
> In Modena they mark it all as "aceto balsamico" and that's really lame.
>> end quote
>
> The Washington Post is much exercised about "fake" imported foods this
> morning. I wonder if anyone can recommend *real* balsamic vinegar that
> can be bought in the US? I also wonder how much, say 250cc, should cost?
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

I go to this place every month or two, but there are others, of course.
They have good imported meats and cheeses.

The tradizionale come sin 100 gram bottles (3.4 oz)
A 50 year old bottle 3.4 oz is $145. The 75 year is $195
http://tonyscolonial.com/tonysonline...19420541192405
What I have was much less, but I bought it in Italy so the airfare minimizes
the savings.

There are some others, like the Manicardi that are a good condiment at much
lower price, then there is some real junk for a few dollars. You'd do
better mixing sugar and wine vinegar.

Ed wrote on Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:51:22 -0400:


> "James Silverton" > wrote
>>> quoting
>> Exactly. In Modena The real deal is "aceto balsamico
>> tradizionale di Modena" and in Reggio Emilia it is "aceto
>> balsamico tradizionale di reggio emilia". Then there is the
>> cheap version, made with caramel and thickeners: in Modena it's
>> "aceto balsamico", in Reggio Emilia it is "condimento balsamico". In
>> Reggio Emilia we use the word "condiment" just to avoid
>> confusing shoppers. In Modena they mark it all as "aceto
>> balsamico" and that's really lame.
>>> end quote
>>
>> The Washington Post is much exercised about "fake" imported
>> foods this morning. I wonder if anyone can recommend *real* balsamic
>> vinegar that can be bought in the US? I also wonder how much, say
>> 250cc, should cost?
>>
>> --
>>
>> James Silverton
>> Potomac, Maryland
>>
>> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

> I go to this place every month or two, but there are others,
> of course. They have good imported meats and cheeses.

> The tradizionale come sin 100 gram bottles (3.4 oz)
> A 50 year old bottle 3.4 oz is $145. The 75 year is $195
> http://tonyscolonial.com/tonysonline...19420541192405
> What I have was much less, but I bought it in Italy so the
> airfare minimizes the savings.

$10 to $20 for 250 ml I might manage but I like to buy things in person
rather than online. Permit me to doubt that I could tell the difference
with 100 year old vinegar. Older wines are something else but vinegar is
a *condiment*.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"James Silverton" > wrote in message
...
> Ed wrote on Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:51:22 -0400:
>
>
>> "James Silverton" > wrote
>>>> quoting
>>> Exactly. In Modena The real deal is "aceto balsamico
>>> tradizionale di Modena" and in Reggio Emilia it is "aceto
>>> balsamico tradizionale di reggio emilia". Then there is the
>>> cheap version, made with caramel and thickeners: in Modena it's "aceto
>>> balsamico", in Reggio Emilia it is "condimento balsamico". In
>>> Reggio Emilia we use the word "condiment" just to avoid
>>> confusing shoppers. In Modena they mark it all as "aceto
>>> balsamico" and that's really lame.
>>>> end quote
>>>
>>> The Washington Post is much exercised about "fake" imported
>>> foods this morning. I wonder if anyone can recommend *real* balsamic
>>> vinegar that can be bought in the US? I also wonder how much, say 250cc,
>>> should cost?
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> James Silverton
>>> Potomac, Maryland
>>>
>>> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
>
>> I go to this place every month or two, but there are others,
>> of course. They have good imported meats and cheeses.
>
>> The tradizionale come sin 100 gram bottles (3.4 oz)
>> A 50 year old bottle 3.4 oz is $145. The 75 year is $195
>> http://tonyscolonial.com/tonysonline...19420541192405
>> What I have was much less, but I bought it in Italy so the
>> airfare minimizes the savings.
>
> $10 to $20 for 250 ml I might manage but I like to buy things in person
> rather than online. Permit me to doubt that I could tell the difference
> with 100 year old vinegar. Older wines are something else but vinegar is a
> *condiment*.
>

Trust me, you can tell the difference. They are not even close to the lower
priced stuff. I too, hesitated and finally bought a bottle and there is
nothing like it. To compare a Fort Pinto to a Bugatti Veyron is not even
enough of a difference. If you took a taste, you'd not know that sweet
taste is vinegar. Ketchup is a condiment, tradizionale balsamico is a
sensuous experience.

Ed wrote on Tue, 30 Mar 2010 22:46:11 -0400:


> "James Silverton" > wrote in
> message ...
>> Ed wrote on Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:51:22 -0400:
>>
>>> "James Silverton" > wrote
>>>>> quoting
>>>> Exactly. In Modena The real deal is "aceto balsamico
>>>> tradizionale di Modena" and in Reggio Emilia it is "aceto
>>>> balsamico tradizionale di reggio emilia". Then there is the
>>>> cheap version, made with caramel and thickeners: in Modena it's
>>>> "aceto balsamico", in Reggio Emilia it is "condimento
>>>> balsamico". In Reggio Emilia we use the word "condiment"
>>>> just to avoid confusing shoppers. In Modena they mark it
>>>> all as "aceto balsamico" and that's really lame.
>>>>> end quote
>>>>
>>>> The Washington Post is much exercised about "fake" imported
>>>> foods this morning. I wonder if anyone can recommend *real*
>>>> balsamic vinegar that can be bought in the US? I also
>>>> wonder how much, say 250cc, should cost?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> James Silverton
>>>> Potomac, Maryland
>>>>
>>>> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
>>
>>> I go to this place every month or two, but there are others,
>>> of course. They have good imported meats and cheeses.
>>
>>> The tradizionale come sin 100 gram bottles (3.4 oz)
>>> A 50 year old bottle 3.4 oz is $145. The 75 year is $195
>>> http://tonyscolonial.com/tonysonline...19420541192405
>>> What I have was much less, but I bought it in Italy so the
>>> airfare minimizes the savings.
>>
>> $10 to $20 for 250 ml I might manage but I like to buy things
>> in person rather than online. Permit me to doubt that I could
>> tell the difference with 100 year old vinegar. Older wines
>> are something else but vinegar is a *condiment*.

>Quote
Trust me, you can tell the difference. They are not even close to the
lower
priced stuff. I too, hesitated and finally bought a bottle and there is
nothing like it. To compare a Fort Pinto to a Bugatti Veyron is not
even
enough of a difference. If you took a taste, you'd not know that sweet
taste is vinegar. Ketchup is a condiment, tradizionale balsamico is a
sensuous experience.
>Endquote

I'll have to see if there is some affordable way to try the ancient
vinegar in a suitable dish. If I do manage to obtain a small amount,
what dishes would you recommend to try it?

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:31:13 -0400, "James Silverton"
> wrote:
>
> >Quote
> Trust me, you can tell the difference. They are not even close to the
> lower
> priced stuff. I too, hesitated and finally bought a bottle and there is
> nothing like it. To compare a Fort Pinto to a Bugatti Veyron is not
> even
> enough of a difference. If you took a taste, you'd not know that sweet
> taste is vinegar. Ketchup is a condiment, tradizionale balsamico is a
> sensuous experience.
> >Endquote
>
> I'll have to see if there is some affordable way to try the ancient
> vinegar in a suitable dish. If I do manage to obtain a small amount,
> what dishes would you recommend to try it?

What are you eating this vinegar condiment with/on?

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

sf wrote on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:48:59 -0700:

> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:31:13 -0400, "James Silverton"
> > wrote:
>>
> >> Quote
>> Trust me, you can tell the difference. They are not even
>> close to the lower priced stuff. I too, hesitated and
>> finally bought a bottle and there is nothing like it. To
>> compare a Fort Pinto to a Bugatti Veyron is not even enough
>> of a difference. If you took a taste, you'd not know that
>> sweet taste is vinegar. Ketchup is a condiment,
>> tradizionale balsamico is a sensuous experience.
> >> Endquote
>>
>> I'll have to see if there is some affordable way to try the
>> ancient vinegar in a suitable dish. If I do manage to obtain
>> a small amount, what dishes would you recommend to try it?

> What are you eating this vinegar condiment with/on?

That's the question! I don't intend to have a vinegar tasting session
like one for wines :-)

I don't know whether the balsamic I used was great or not but I did have
it as part of the dressing for spinach/strawberry salad. Somehow, I did
not detect any wonderful subtle flavor tho' the salad was good.
--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"James Silverton" > wrote in message
...
| sf wrote on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:48:59 -0700:
|
| > On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:31:13 -0400, "James Silverton"
| > > wrote:
| >>
| > >> Quote
| >> Trust me, you can tell the difference. They are not even
| >> close to the lower priced stuff. I too, hesitated and
| >> finally bought a bottle and there is nothing like it. To
| >> compare a Fort Pinto to a Bugatti Veyron is not even enough
| >> of a difference. If you took a taste, you'd not know that
| >> sweet taste is vinegar. Ketchup is a condiment,
| >> tradizionale balsamico is a sensuous experience.
| > >> Endquote
| >>
| >> I'll have to see if there is some affordable way to try the
| >> ancient vinegar in a suitable dish. If I do manage to obtain
| >> a small amount, what dishes would you recommend to try it?
|
| > What are you eating this vinegar condiment with/on?
|
| That's the question! I don't intend to have a vinegar tasting session
| like one for wines :-)
|
| I don't know whether the balsamic I used was great or not but I did have
| it as part of the dressing for spinach/strawberry salad. Somehow, I did
| not detect any wonderful subtle flavor tho' the salad was good.

The way vinegar tastings that I've attended have been held is to use
sugar cubes, the larger ones, dip the end into the vinegar (usually put
out in small sample-size cups) and sip the vinegar from the sugar cube.
The sugar blocks the acidity and you definitely can taste "subtle flavor"
differences quite easily. It's much more civilized and reasonable than
it sounds.

pavane

pavane wrote on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:57:17 -0400:


> "James Silverton" > wrote in
> message ...
|> sf wrote on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:48:59 -0700:
|>
| >> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:31:13 -0400, "James Silverton"
| >> > wrote:
| >>>
| > >>> Quote
| >>> Trust me, you can tell the difference. They are not even
| >>> close to the lower priced stuff. I too, hesitated and
| >>> finally bought a bottle and there is nothing like it. To
| >>> compare a Fort Pinto to a Bugatti Veyron is not even
| >>> enough of a difference. If you took a taste, you'd not
| >>> know that sweet taste is vinegar. Ketchup is a
| >>> condiment, tradizionale balsamico is a sensuous
| >>> experience.
| > >>> Endquote
| >>>
| >>> I'll have to see if there is some affordable way to try
| >>> the ancient vinegar in a suitable dish. If I do manage to
| >>> obtain a small amount, what dishes would you recommend to
| >>> try it?
|>
| >> What are you eating this vinegar condiment with/on?
|>
|> That's the question! I don't intend to have a vinegar tasting
|> session like one for wines :-)
|>
|> I don't know whether the balsamic I used was great or not but
|> I did have it as part of the dressing for spinach/strawberry
|> salad. Somehow, I did not detect any wonderful subtle flavor
|> tho' the salad was good.

> The way vinegar tastings that I've attended have been held is
> to use sugar cubes, the larger ones, dip the end into the
> vinegar (usually put out in small sample-size cups) and sip
> the vinegar from the sugar cube. The sugar blocks the acidity
> and you definitely can taste "subtle flavor" differences quite
> easily. It's much more civilized and reasonable than it
> sounds.

But why bother? Nobody uses vinegar as a significant part of their diet,
do they? People incorporate balsamic vinegar into things.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"James Silverton" > wrote in message
...
| pavane wrote on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:57:17 -0400:
|
|
| > "James Silverton" > wrote in
| > message ...
||> sf wrote on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:48:59 -0700:
||>
|| >> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:31:13 -0400, "James Silverton"
|| >> > wrote:
|| >>>
|| > >>> Quote
|| >>> Trust me, you can tell the difference. They are not even
|| >>> close to the lower priced stuff. I too, hesitated and
|| >>> finally bought a bottle and there is nothing like it. To
|| >>> compare a Fort Pinto to a Bugatti Veyron is not even
|| >>> enough of a difference. If you took a taste, you'd not
|| >>> know that sweet taste is vinegar. Ketchup is a
|| >>> condiment, tradizionale balsamico is a sensuous
|| >>> experience.
|| > >>> Endquote
|| >>>
|| >>> I'll have to see if there is some affordable way to try
|| >>> the ancient vinegar in a suitable dish. If I do manage to
|| >>> obtain a small amount, what dishes would you recommend to
|| >>> try it?
||>
|| >> What are you eating this vinegar condiment with/on?
||>
||> That's the question! I don't intend to have a vinegar tasting
||> session like one for wines :-)
||>
||> I don't know whether the balsamic I used was great or not but
||> I did have it as part of the dressing for spinach/strawberry
||> salad. Somehow, I did not detect any wonderful subtle flavor
||> tho' the salad was good.
|
| > The way vinegar tastings that I've attended have been held is
| > to use sugar cubes, the larger ones, dip the end into the
| > vinegar (usually put out in small sample-size cups) and sip
| > the vinegar from the sugar cube. The sugar blocks the acidity
| > and you definitely can taste "subtle flavor" differences quite
| > easily. It's much more civilized and reasonable than it
| > sounds.
|
| But why bother? Nobody uses vinegar as a significant part of their diet,
| do they? People incorporate balsamic vinegar into things.

These are tests you find at Williams-Sonoma, Balducci's or others of the
glam-food stores wanting to convince you to part with $50 or $100
for a jug of vinegar. You seem to have broken the code.

pavane

pavane wrote on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:42:47 -0400:


> "James Silverton" > wrote in
> message ...
|> pavane wrote on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:57:17 -0400:
|>
| >> "James Silverton" > wrote in
| >> message ...
||>> sf wrote on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:48:59 -0700:
||>>
|| >>> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:31:13 -0400, "James Silverton"
|| >>> > wrote:
|| >>>>
|| > >>>> Quote
|| >>>> Trust me, you can tell the difference. They are not
|| >>>> even close to the lower priced stuff. I too, hesitated
|| >>>> and finally bought a bottle and there is nothing like
|| >>>> it. To compare a Fort Pinto to a Bugatti Veyron is not
|| >>>> even enough of a difference. If you took a taste, you'd
|| >>>> not know that sweet taste is vinegar. Ketchup is
|| >>>> a condiment, tradizionale balsamico is a
|| >>>> sensuous experience.
|| > >>>> Endquote
|| >>>>
|| >>>> I'll have to see if there is some affordable way to try
|| >>>> the ancient vinegar in a suitable dish. If I do manage
|| >>>> to obtain a small amount, what dishes would you
|| >>>> recommend to try it?
||>>
|| >>> What are you eating this vinegar condiment with/on?
||>>
||>> That's the question! I don't intend to have a vinegar
||>> tasting session like one for wines :-)
||>>
||>> I don't know whether the balsamic I used was great or not
||>> but I did have it as part of the dressing for
||>> spinach/strawberry salad. Somehow, I did not detect any
||>> wonderful subtle flavor tho' the salad was good.
|>
| >> The way vinegar tastings that I've attended have been held
| >> is to use sugar cubes, the larger ones, dip the end into
| >> the vinegar (usually put out in small sample-size cups) and
| >> sip the vinegar from the sugar cube. The sugar blocks the
| >> acidity and you definitely can taste "subtle flavor"
| >> differences quite easily. It's much more civilized and
| >> reasonable than it sounds.
|>
|> But why bother? Nobody uses vinegar as a significant part of
|> their diet, do they? People incorporate balsamic vinegar into
|> things.

> These are tests you find at Williams-Sonoma, Balducci's or
> others of the glam-food stores wanting to convince you to part
> with $50 or $100 for a jug of vinegar. You seem to have
> broken the code.

I'm a little disappointed since no-one has yet suggested a *recipe* that
would be greatly improved by using $100 vinegar.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:57:17 -0400, "pavane"
> wrote:

>The way vinegar tastings that I've attended have been held is to use
>sugar cubes, the larger ones, dip the end into the vinegar (usually put
>out in small sample-size cups) and sip the vinegar from the sugar cube.
>The sugar blocks the acidity and you definitely can taste "subtle flavor"
>differences quite easily. It's much more civilized and reasonable than
>it sounds.

I can't imagine tasting vinegar with sugar. Around here, they use
bread and do it the same way you'd taste olive oil. If I had sugar
cubes, I'd give it a try right now.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 17:43:51 -0400, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

> pavane wrote on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:42:47 -0400:
>
>
>> "James Silverton" > wrote in
>> message ...
>|> pavane wrote on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:57:17 -0400:
>|>
>| >> "James Silverton" > wrote in
>| >> message ...
>||>> sf wrote on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:48:59 -0700:
>||>>
>|| >>> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:31:13 -0400, "James Silverton"
>|| >>> > wrote:
>|| >>>>
>|| > >>>> Quote
>|| >>>> Trust me, you can tell the difference. They are not
>|| >>>> even close to the lower priced stuff. I too, hesitated
>|| >>>> and finally bought a bottle and there is nothing like
>|| >>>> it. To compare a Fort Pinto to a Bugatti Veyron is not
>|| >>>> even enough of a difference. If you took a taste, you'd
>|| >>>> not know that sweet taste is vinegar. Ketchup is
>|| >>>> a condiment, tradizionale balsamico is a
>|| >>>> sensuous experience.
>|| > >>>> Endquote
>|| >>>>
>|| >>>> I'll have to see if there is some affordable way to try
>|| >>>> the ancient vinegar in a suitable dish. If I do manage
>|| >>>> to obtain a small amount, what dishes would you
>|| >>>> recommend to try it?
>||>>
>|| >>> What are you eating this vinegar condiment with/on?
>||>>
>||>> That's the question! I don't intend to have a vinegar
>||>> tasting session like one for wines :-)
>||>>
>||>> I don't know whether the balsamic I used was great or not
>||>> but I did have it as part of the dressing for
>||>> spinach/strawberry salad. Somehow, I did not detect any
>||>> wonderful subtle flavor tho' the salad was good.
>|>
>| >> The way vinegar tastings that I've attended have been held
>| >> is to use sugar cubes, the larger ones, dip the end into
>| >> the vinegar (usually put out in small sample-size cups) and
>| >> sip the vinegar from the sugar cube. The sugar blocks the
>| >> acidity and you definitely can taste "subtle flavor"
>| >> differences quite easily. It's much more civilized and
>| >> reasonable than it sounds.
>|>
>|> But why bother? Nobody uses vinegar as a significant part of
>|> their diet, do they? People incorporate balsamic vinegar into
>|> things.
>
>> These are tests you find at Williams-Sonoma, Balducci's or
>> others of the glam-food stores wanting to convince you to part
>> with $50 or $100 for a jug of vinegar. You seem to have
>> broken the code.
>
>I'm a little disappointed since no-one has yet suggested a *recipe* that
>would be greatly improved by using $100 vinegar.

Fresh strawberries. If they are not sweet, add a little sugar. I
also like balsamic on chunks of parmesan cheese. Look for Villa
Manodori for a reasonably priced balsamic. I paid about $35 an 8 oz
bottle. The better grades of balsamic are not usually used "in" a
recipe.

I have a bottle of gold label I bought several years ago and have yet
to open it. Maybe if the strawberries are really good this year.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

The wrote on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 18:14:41 -0500:

>> pavane wrote on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:42:47 -0400:
>>
>>> "James Silverton" > wrote in
>>> message ...
>|>> pavane wrote on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:57:17 -0400:
>|>>
>| >>> "James Silverton" > wrote
>| >>> in message ...
>||>>> sf wrote on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:48:59 -0700:
>||>>>
>|| >>>> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:31:13 -0400, "James Silverton"
>|| >>>> > wrote:
>|| >>>>>
>|| > >>>>> Quote
>|| >>>>> Trust me, you can tell the difference. They are not
>|| >>>>> even close to the lower priced stuff. I too,
>|| >>>>> hesitated and finally bought a bottle and there is
>|| >>>>> nothing like it. To compare a Fort Pinto to a
>|| >>>>> Bugatti Veyron is not even enough of a difference. If
>|| >>>>> you took a taste, you'd not know that sweet taste is
>|| >>>>> vinegar. Ketchup is a condiment, tradizionale
>|| >>>>> balsamico is a sensuous experience.
>|| > >>>>> Endquote
>|| >>>>>
>|| >>>>> I'll have to see if there is some affordable way to
>|| >>>>> try the ancient vinegar in a suitable dish. If I do
>|| >>>>> manage to obtain a small amount, what dishes would you
>|| >>>>> recommend to try it?
>||>>>
>|| >>>> What are you eating this vinegar condiment with/on?
>||>>>
>||>>> That's the question! I don't intend to have a vinegar
>||>>> tasting session like one for wines :-)
>||>>>
>||>>> I don't know whether the balsamic I used was great or not
>||>>> but I did have it as part of the dressing for
>||>>> spinach/strawberry salad. Somehow, I did not detect any
>||>>> wonderful subtle flavor tho' the salad was good.
>|>>
>| >>> The way vinegar tastings that I've attended have been
>| >>> held is to use sugar cubes, the larger ones, dip the end
>| >>> into the vinegar (usually put out in small sample-size
>| >>> cups) and sip the vinegar from the sugar cube. The sugar
>| >>> blocks the acidity and you definitely can taste "subtle
>| >>> flavor" differences quite easily. It's much more
>| >>> civilized and reasonable than it sounds.
>|>>
>|>> But why bother? Nobody uses vinegar as a significant part
>|>> of their diet, do they? People incorporate balsamic vinegar
>|>> into things.
>>
>>> These are tests you find at Williams-Sonoma, Balducci's or
>>> others of the glam-food stores wanting to convince you to
>>> part with $50 or $100 for a jug of vinegar. You seem to
>>> have broken the code.
>>
>> I'm a little disappointed since no-one has yet suggested a
>> *recipe* that would be greatly improved by using $100
>> vinegar.

> Fresh strawberries. If they are not sweet, add a little
> sugar. I also like balsamic on chunks of parmesan cheese.
> Look for Villa Manodori for a reasonably priced balsamic. I
> paid about $35 an 8 oz bottle. The better grades of balsamic
> are not usually used "in" a recipe.

Just what are these better grades used for? Sprinkling on cheese and
strawberries is a pretty meager range and hardly seems to justify the
ridiculous prices asked. I've said I've had balsamic on a
spinach/strawberry salad but I've tried it on strawberries alone and I
don't really like it.


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Susan recommended uses for balsamico tradizionale:

> Fresh strawberries. If they are not sweet, add a little sugar. I
> also like balsamic on chunks of parmesan cheese. Look for Villa
> Manodori for a reasonably priced balsamic. I paid about $35 an 8 oz
> bottle. The better grades of balsamic are not usually used "in" a
> recipe.
>
> I have a bottle of gold label I bought several years ago and have yet
> to open it. Maybe if the strawberries are really good this year.

The good stuff is so good it can be sipped as a cordial; it has an amazing
complexity and deep sweetness. If you get the vinegar from the "official"
consortium, it usually comes with a little eyedropper so that you can put
individual drops of balsamic on food as a condiment.

Besides strawberries or Parmesan, I like a drop of balsamic on grilled
halved figs (with or without mascarpone), or on a cube of watermelon. It
brings a grilled steak to new heights. I cook beet stems with butter,
deglaze with water, cook until the water evaporates, then finish with a tiny
drizzle of balsamic. In the past I've mixed together grapeseed oil,
tangerine juice, a bit of balsamic vinegar, salt, pepper, and mustard, then
used that to dress a salad with mixed greens and scallops meunière. It would
probably be good on a cube of avocado, but I haven't tried that yet. When
Christine visited last month, one of the appetizers I served was
reconstituted dried apricots with chèvre and a drop or two of
cherrywood-aged balsamico tradizionale.

Bob

"James Silverton" > wrote
>
> I'm a little disappointed since no-one has yet suggested a *recipe* that
> would be greatly improved by using $100 vinegar.
>

If you are talking about the true balsamic, it is not used as a mixed in
ingredient. You put a couple of drops on a piece of good Parmesan cheese,
or on a piece of fruit, or with vanilla ice cream. It is not used in salad
dressings with a bunch of other herbs and spices. Think of it as a topping.

The more modest priced varieties ($25 to $50) I like to add to sautéed
mushrooms and onions before serving, on a piece of roasted chicken, a pork
chop etc. It is also good with fruit.

The flavor of the tradizionale is something that can stand well on its own.
Simple is good. Just as you'd not take a bottle of your best Cabernet or
Burgundy and add ginger ale to it for a picnic beverage. Or use that $100
single malt Scotch to make hi balls.

"James Silverton" > wrote
>
> Just what are these better grades used for? Sprinkling on cheese and
> strawberries is a pretty meager range and hardly seems to justify the
> ridiculous prices asked. I've said I've had balsamic on a
> spinach/strawberry salad but I've tried it on strawberries alone and I
> don't really like it.

When you look at the process and time involved, you realize the price is not
so ridiculous. It is a time consuming practice that takes years to get
back your investment. Often you are making it for the next generation.

Fact is, you've not tried it yet. What you tried is a low priced imitation.
That does not compare at all. I don't know how to quantify taste because it
is more than a number, but a sensation to be experienced to be understood.
It is not like comparing store brand ice cream to Hagen Daz since the
difference is much more dramatic. It is very expensive and I may only ever
have a couple of bottles in my lifetime. While you consider sprinkling it
on cheese is a meager range, it is like comparing looking at a Playboy
center spread and actually having sex with a wonderful woman.

I hope some day you have the opportunity to try some. Only then will you
know what it is all about.

"James Silverton" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> I'll have to see if there is some affordable way to try the ancient >
> vinegar in a suitable dish. If I do manage to obtain a small amount, >
> what dishes would you recommend to try it?

A drop on a grilled fillet mignon, a drop on some strawberries. It is used
in drops and never in salad dressings.
I consider the fake balsamic as bad a food invention as Hamburger Helper.