Kate Connally wrote:

>> Wow - these look good. Since I'm making these at my kids school, do
>> you think I could substitute water or extra milk for the brandy?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Kris
>
> Sure. As I recall I left it out as I don't keep like brandy
> and don't keep it around. I would just add extra milk. Whatever.\
> Kate
>
I wonder if Kris thinks one lousy tablespoon of brandy (divided by how
many epanadas??) will send children into wild fits of abandon or
something?..... better not use vanilla extract ever either, eh?

Goomba, who lived dangerously and cooks for kids with evil liquor AND
vanilla extract!

On May 11, 6:59*pm, Goomba > wrote:
> Kate Connally wrote:
> >> Wow - these look good. Since I'm making these at my kids school, do
> >> you think I could substitute water or extra milk for the brandy?
>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Kris
>
> > Sure. *As I recall I left it out as I don't keep like brandy
> > and don't keep it around. *I would just add extra milk. *Whatever.\
> > Kate
>
> I wonder if Kris thinks one lousy tablespoon of brandy (divided by how
> many epanadas??) will send children into wild fits of abandon or
> something?..... better not use vanilla extract ever either, eh?
>
> Goomba, who lived dangerously and cooks for kids with evil liquor AND
> vanilla extract!

Well, Kris is just playing it safe, as she is teaching other people's
8-year-old kids. Kris wouldn't care if it was just her own. Kris would
use vanilla, not problem.

By the way, this IS Kris.

Kris

Kris wrote:
>
> On May 11, 6:59 pm, Goomba > wrote:
> > Kate Connally wrote:
> > >> Wow - these look good. Since I'm making these at my kids school, do
> > >> you think I could substitute water or extra milk for the brandy?
> >
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Kris
> >
> > > Sure. As I recall I left it out as I don't keep like brandy
> > > and don't keep it around. I would just add extra milk. Whatever.\
> > > Kate
> >
> > I wonder if Kris thinks one lousy tablespoon of brandy (divided by how
> > many epanadas??) will send children into wild fits of abandon or
> > something?..... better not use vanilla extract ever either, eh?
> >
> > Goomba, who lived dangerously and cooks for kids with evil liquor AND
> > vanilla extract!
>
> Well, Kris is just playing it safe, as she is teaching other people's
> 8-year-old kids. Kris wouldn't care if it was just her own. Kris would
> use vanilla, not problem.
>
> By the way, this IS Kris.
>
> Kris


You are correct in being cautious. Can't tell what a parent will sue
over, regardless of how innocuous.

On May 11, 8:15*pm, Arri London > wrote:
> Kris wrote:
>
> > On May 11, 6:59 pm, Goomba > wrote:
> > > Kate Connally wrote:
> > > >> Wow - these look good. Since I'm making these at my kids school, do
> > > >> you think I could substitute water or extra milk for the brandy?
>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Kris
>
> > > > Sure. *As I recall I left it out as I don't keep like brandy
> > > > and don't keep it around. *I would just add extra milk. *Whatever.\
> > > > Kate
>
> > > I wonder if Kris thinks one lousy tablespoon of brandy (divided by how
> > > many epanadas??) will send children into wild fits of abandon or
> > > something?..... better not use vanilla extract ever either, eh?
>
> > > Goomba, who lived dangerously and cooks for kids with evil liquor AND
> > > vanilla extract!
>
> > Well, Kris is just playing it safe, as she is teaching other people's
> > 8-year-old kids. Kris wouldn't care if it was just her own. Kris would
> > use vanilla, not problem.
>
> > By the way, this IS Kris.
>
> > Kris
>
> You are correct in being cautious. Can't tell what a parent will sue
> over, regardless of how innocuous.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thank you! I feel the same, obviously.

I hate being portrayed as some uptight person when I'm just being
cautious with other people's children. This newsgroups needs to
lighten up sometimes.

Kris

Kris wrote:

> I hate being portrayed as some uptight person when I'm just being
> cautious with other people's children. This newsgroups needs to
> lighten up sometimes.
>
> Kris

So do you also leave out the vanilla extract? That too contains that
alcohol. Where do you draw the line?
If I made a recipe that contained a whopping one tablespoon of brandy, I
doubt I'd even think to mention it to anyone as it is such a minuscule
amount.

On 5/11/2010 9:16 PM, Goomba wrote:
> Kris wrote:
>
>> I hate being portrayed as some uptight person when I'm just being
>> cautious with other people's children. This newsgroups needs to
>> lighten up sometimes.
>>
>> Kris
>
> So do you also leave out the vanilla extract? That too contains that
> alcohol. Where do you draw the line?
> If I made a recipe that contained a whopping one tablespoon of brandy, I
> doubt I'd even think to mention it to anyone as it is such a minuscule
> amount.

While the alcohol is usually gone if it's used in anything that gets
cooked, bear in mind the idiotic "zero tolerance" laws in force in many
localities, where any detectable level of alcohol is enough to get
someone under 21 in big trouble with the law.

On Tue, 11 May 2010 21:16:29 -0400, Goomba >
wrote:

> So do you also leave out the vanilla extract? That too contains that
> alcohol. Where do you draw the line?
> If I made a recipe that contained a whopping one tablespoon of brandy, I
> doubt I'd even think to mention it to anyone as it is such a minuscule
> amount.

Obviously you've never worked for a school district and must not have
sent your children to public school to be so out of touch with
reality.

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Tue, 11 May 2010 18:15:39 -0600, Arri London >
wrote:

> You are correct in being cautious. Can't tell what a parent will sue
> over, regardless of how innocuous.

Most, if not all, school districts have policies against bringing
alcohol onto school property. Kris doesn't need to get a reprimand
just to appease Goomba.

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

J. Clarke wrote:

> While the alcohol is usually gone if it's used in anything that gets
> cooked, bear in mind the idiotic "zero tolerance" laws in force in many
> localities, where any detectable level of alcohol is enough to get
> someone under 21 in big trouble with the law.
>
But I dispute that ONE TABLESPOON of brandy would *ever* be detectable
in a recipe that large.

sf wrote:
> On Tue, 11 May 2010 21:16:29 -0400, Goomba >
> wrote:
>
>> So do you also leave out the vanilla extract? That too contains that
>> alcohol. Where do you draw the line?
>> If I made a recipe that contained a whopping one tablespoon of brandy, I
>> doubt I'd even think to mention it to anyone as it is such a minuscule
>> amount.
>
> Obviously you've never worked for a school district and must not have
> sent your children to public school to be so out of touch with
> reality.
>
Or perhaps I'm trying to introduce some common sense....

On 12/05/2010 07:06, Goomba wrote:
> Or perhaps I'm trying to introduce some common sense....

I don't usually weigh in on these things because usually I couldn't care
less, but - she is actually making this *at* a school, as far as I was
able to tell. I don't think even my school would have allowed a bottle
of brandy in the door.

Yes, she *could* put it in a small, unmarked bottle and not say what it
was, but to be honest, brandy does have a strong odour. Someone's gonna
notice and turn it into a 'thing'. I totally agree that the people who
would have an issue with it should lighten up, but can you see that
*ever* happening? Making a stand over a tablespoon of brandy totally
isn't worth it. IMO anyway, is more common-sensical to just avoid the
whole question and leave it out.

-Jen (wondering if this Windows install is ever gonna finish. sigh.)

On 5/12/2010 2:06 AM, Goomba wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> While the alcohol is usually gone if it's used in anything that gets
>> cooked, bear in mind the idiotic "zero tolerance" laws in force in
>> many localities, where any detectable level of alcohol is enough to
>> get someone under 21 in big trouble with the law.
>>
> But I dispute that ONE TABLESPOON of brandy would *ever* be detectable
> in a recipe that large.

Probably not, but I know teenagers who won't eat anything that has been
cooked in a wine sauce if they are going to be driving because the
government has them so afraid.

Jen P. wrote:

> I don't usually weigh in on these things because usually I couldn't care
> less, but - she is actually making this *at* a school, as far as I was
> able to tell. I don't think even my school would have allowed a bottle
> of brandy in the door.


Ah, I missed that it was being made at the school! I thought she was
making it at home. In *that* case, you're right. I'd not be bringing a
bottle of brandy to a school.

On 12/05/2010 13:56, Goomba wrote:
> Ah, I missed that it was being made at the school! I thought she was
> making it at home. In *that* case, you're right. I'd not be bringing a
> bottle of brandy to a school.

Not to a primary school, anyway... the high schoolers, though, would
promise never to tell a soul.

-Jen

On May 12, 8:56*am, Goomba > wrote:
> Jen P. wrote:
> > I don't usually weigh in on these things because usually I couldn't care
> > less, but - she is actually making this *at* a school, as far as I was
> > able to tell. *I don't think even my school would have allowed a bottle
> > of brandy in the door.
>
> Ah, I missed that it was being made at the school! I thought she was
> making it at home. In *that* case, you're right. I'd not be bringing a
> bottle of brandy to a school.

Gee, thanks for finally noticing. Too bad it wasn't sooner.

Kris

Goomba > wrote:

>Kris wrote:

>> I hate being portrayed as some uptight person when I'm just being
>> cautious with other people's children. This newsgroups needs to
>> lighten up sometimes.

>So do you also leave out the vanilla extract? That too contains that
>alcohol. Where do you draw the line?
>If I made a recipe that contained a whopping one tablespoon of brandy, I
>doubt I'd even think to mention it to anyone as it is such a minuscule
>amount.

The danger here is someone subject to blood alcohol testing might
consume your recipe and text positive, exposing them to some form
of blowback.

Those tests are getting more and more sensitive.

Steve

Ranée at Arabian Knits > wrote:

> Seriously? Do you think other parents or the school are going to get
> worked up over vanilla? Somehow a bottle of Cognac seems more likely to
> push anti-alcohol people over the edge far more than vanilla extract.
> Muslims and Mormons will, for the most part, still use vanilla extract,
> for instance, but won't get wine, beer or liquor.

I'm not sure if Muslims use alcohol extracts, but I do know they
are not available in the mid-east and Pakistani stores around here.
There a number of aquaeous extracts though, of things like orange
and rose.

Now I'm thinking that the popularity of preserved lemon might
have something to do with avoidance of lemon extract -- both
concentrate the oil component of the lemon flavor (the zest, as
opposed to the juice component).


Steve

On Thu, 13 May 2010 19:05:37 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> Now I'm thinking that the popularity of preserved lemon might
> have something to do with avoidance of lemon extract -- both
> concentrate the oil component of the lemon flavor (the zest, as
> opposed to the juice component).

The popularity of preserved lemon probably has more to do with the
availability of fresh, whole lemons at a decent price and people like
us wanting to try something new vs. religious or legal needs.

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

sf > wrote:

>On Thu, 13 May 2010 19:05:37 +0000 (UTC),

>> Now I'm thinking that the popularity of preserved lemon might
>> have something to do with avoidance of lemon extract -- both
>> concentrate the oil component of the lemon flavor (the zest, as
>> opposed to the juice component).

>The popularity of preserved lemon probably has more to do with the
>availability of fresh, whole lemons at a decent price and people like
>us wanting to try something new vs. religious or legal needs.


I should have clarified that I meant, "the popularity of preserved
lemon in predominantly Islamic regions".


Steve

Steve Pope wrote:
>
> Ranée at Arabian Knits > wrote:
>
> > Seriously? Do you think other parents or the school are going to get
> > worked up over vanilla? Somehow a bottle of Cognac seems more likely to
> > push anti-alcohol people over the edge far more than vanilla extract.
> > Muslims and Mormons will, for the most part, still use vanilla extract,
> > for instance, but won't get wine, beer or liquor.
>
> I'm not sure if Muslims use alcohol extracts, but I do know they
> are not available in the mid-east and Pakistani stores around here.
> There a number of aquaeous extracts though, of things like orange
> and rose.

Standard vanilla extract was never available in the Muslim shops in my
old neighbourhood either. Vanilla beans or vanilla powder was found
sometimes. But it wasn't a popular flavour with the locals anyway.

Alcohol-based perfumes were never available either. Oil-based and
aqueous concoctions only.

>
> Now I'm thinking that the popularity of preserved lemon might
> have something to do with avoidance of lemon extract -- both
> concentrate the oil component of the lemon flavor (the zest, as
> opposed to the juice component).
>
> Steve

Could be. Also could be that preserving foods with salt is likely to be
an older technique. Probably easier to do at home than making alcoholic
extracts.

Arri London > wrote:

>Steve Pope wrote:

>> I'm not sure if Muslims use alcohol extracts, but I do know they
>> are not available in the mid-east and Pakistani stores around here.
>> There a number of aquaeous extracts though, of things like orange
>> and rose.

>Standard vanilla extract was never available in the Muslim shops in my
>old neighbourhood either. Vanilla beans or vanilla powder was found
>sometimes. But it wasn't a popular flavour with the locals anyway.

>Alcohol-based perfumes were never available either. Oil-based and
>aqueous concoctions only.

So that's another datapoint.

>> Now I'm thinking that the popularity of preserved lemon might
>> have something to do with avoidance of lemon extract -- both
>> concentrate the oil component of the lemon flavor (the zest, as
>> opposed to the juice component).

>Could be. Also could be that preserving foods with salt is likely to be
>an older technique. Probably easier to do at home than making alcoholic
>extracts.

Both techniques are very old.

It is not difficult to make an alcohol extact, if you're willing
to go with room-temperature soaking and don't need to heat it.
(e.g. I see no overt difference between lemoncello and lemon extract,
other than the added sugar in lemoncello.)

I think simmering in alcohol is perhaps not recommended for home
chefs from a safety standpoint. But it can be done, carefully, in
mason jars on an electric stove.

Steve

On Thu, 13 May 2010 21:22:16 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> sf > wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 13 May 2010 19:05:37 +0000 (UTC),
>
> >> Now I'm thinking that the popularity of preserved lemon might
> >> have something to do with avoidance of lemon extract -- both
> >> concentrate the oil component of the lemon flavor (the zest, as
> >> opposed to the juice component).
>
> >The popularity of preserved lemon probably has more to do with the
> >availability of fresh, whole lemons at a decent price and people like
> >us wanting to try something new vs. religious or legal needs.
>
>
> I should have clarified that I meant, "the popularity of preserved
> lemon in predominantly Islamic regions".
>
Which came first? Salt preserved lemon or lemon extract? I suspect
salt preserved lemon came first and I also suspect that originally the
salt preservation of lemon had nothing to do with anti-alcohol
religious fervor.

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

sf > wrote:

>On Thu, 13 May 2010 21:22:16 +0000 (UTC),

>(Steve Pope) wrote:

>> >> Now I'm thinking that the popularity of preserved lemon might
>> >> have something to do with avoidance of lemon extract --

>> I should have clarified that I meant, "the popularity of preserved
>> lemon in predominantly Islamic regions".

>Which came first? Salt preserved lemon or lemon extract? I suspect
>salt preserved lemon came first and I also suspect that originally the
>salt preservation of lemon had nothing to do with anti-alcohol
>religious fervor.

Both your statement above and my statment above could easily be true
at the same time.

Steve

"Ranée at Arabian Knits" wrote:
>
> In article >, Arri London >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Steve Pope wrote:
> > >
> > > Ranée at Arabian Knits > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Seriously? Do you think other parents or the school are going to get
> > > > worked up over vanilla? Somehow a bottle of Cognac seems more likely to
> > > > push anti-alcohol people over the edge far more than vanilla extract.
> > > > Muslims and Mormons will, for the most part, still use vanilla extract,
> > > > for instance, but won't get wine, beer or liquor.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if Muslims use alcohol extracts, but I do know they
> > > are not available in the mid-east and Pakistani stores around here.
> > > There a number of aquaeous extracts though, of things like orange
> > > and rose.
> >
> > Standard vanilla extract was never available in the Muslim shops in my
> > old neighbourhood either. Vanilla beans or vanilla powder was found
> > sometimes. But it wasn't a popular flavour with the locals anyway.
>
> I meant in the west, not in their traditional foods. No Muslims I
> have met, either in our family or otherwise, objected to the use of
> vanilla extract in cooking.
>
> > > Now I'm thinking that the popularity of preserved lemon might
> > > have something to do with avoidance of lemon extract -- both
> > > concentrate the oil component of the lemon flavor (the zest, as
> > > opposed to the juice component).
> > >
> > > Steve
> >
> > Could be. Also could be that preserving foods with salt is likely to be
> > an older technique. Probably easier to do at home than making alcoholic
> > extracts.
>
> I don't see how. Split a vanilla bean and stick it in alcohol.
> Done.

But a good Muslim wouldn't normally make/have EtOH at home The
neighbours would talk. Salt and lemons wouldn't raise any eyebrows.


>It isn't as though alcohol isn't made in those places. In fact,
> my mom talked about this fermented drink they had during Ramadan. When
> I asked her how it was possible that they did that when their religion
> forbade alcohol she was genuinely flummoxed.

Illicit drinking of alcohol certainly occurs in Muslim countries. But
there are alternatives to alcohol-containing products.

"Ranée at Arabian Knits" wrote:
>
> In article >, Arri London >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > "Ranée at Arabian Knits" wrote:
> > >
> > > In article >, Arri London >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Could be. Also could be that preserving foods with salt is likely to be
> > > > an older technique. Probably easier to do at home than making alcoholic
> > > > extracts.
> > >
> > > I don't see how. Split a vanilla bean and stick it in alcohol.
> > > Done.
> >
> > But a good Muslim wouldn't normally make/have EtOH at home The
> > neighbours would talk. Salt and lemons wouldn't raise any eyebrows.
>
> But it was about ease, not Muslims. :-) Salt and lemons isn't any
> easier or more difficult than vanilla in alcohol.
>

But would making alcoholic lemon extract at home be as easy? The usual
method (AFAIK) is to extract the oil from the rind first.

Agreed that vanilla is relatively easy.

"Ranée at Arabian Knits" wrote:
>
> In article >, Arri London >
> wrote:
>
> > "Ranée at Arabian Knits" wrote:
>
> > >It isn't as though alcohol isn't made in those places. In fact,
> > > my mom talked about this fermented drink they had during Ramadan. When
> > > I asked her how it was possible that they did that when their religion
> > > forbade alcohol she was genuinely flummoxed.
> >
> > Illicit drinking of alcohol certainly occurs in Muslim countries. But
> > there are alternatives to alcohol-containing products.
>
> That was what was remarkable about this. It wasn't illicit, it was a
> traditional beverage for breaking the fast. This was in Saudi Arabia,
> near Mecca.
>
>

Do you know what it is/was called? Certainly neither the Bengali nor
Somali Muslims in my old hood drank anything like that. Can't answer for
any of the other communities, about whose Ramadan/Iftar habits I know
less.

"Ranée at Arabian Knits" wrote:
>
> In article >, Arri London >
> wrote:
>
> > "Ranée at Arabian Knits" wrote:
>
<snip>

> >
> > Do you know what it is/was called? Certainly neither the Bengali nor
> > Somali Muslims in my old hood drank anything like that. Can't answer for
> > any of the other communities, about whose Ramadan/Iftar habits I know
> > less.
>
> I'll have to ask her. I can't remember. It was a conversation we
> had many years ago.
>
>

TYVM! I'm genuinely curious.

BTW a little OT: just got a catalogue from 'Webs' yarns etc. Really
pricey! Not ordering from there any time soon, but nice yarns.

"Ranée at Arabian Knits" wrote:
>
> In article >, Arri London >
> wrote:
>
> > But would making alcoholic lemon extract at home be as easy? The usual
> > method (AFAIK) is to extract the oil from the rind first.
>
> That, I don't know. The closest I've come to it is making
> limoncello, which was pretty simple.
>


But that doesn't taste like lemon extract, so there is more to making
the extract.